History Main / StrawVulcan

2nd May '16 5:06:35 PM Discar
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* In ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'' King Taravingian is under a curse/blessing that causes his intelligence to fluctuate and he becomes less compassionate and moral the smarter he gets, with the result that every morning he takes an intelligence test of his own devising. His ability to change policy is dependent on the results of the test, and becomes restricted if he's too stupid ''or'' too smart. Fortunately, this precaution was put in place before he came up with that plan to make everyone below a certain level of intelligence kill themselves. He does note that the inverse relationship between intelligence and emotion isn't how it works for most people, it's part of his condition.

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* In ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'' King Taravingian Taravangian is under a curse/blessing that causes his intelligence to fluctuate and he becomes less compassionate and moral the smarter he gets, with the result that every morning he takes an intelligence test of his own devising. His ability to change policy is dependent on the results of the test, and becomes restricted if he's too stupid ''or'' too smart. Fortunately, this precaution was put in place before he came up with that plan to make everyone below a certain level of intelligence kill themselves. He does note that the inverse relationship between intelligence and emotion isn't how it works for most people, it's part of his condition.
24th Apr '16 10:41:35 AM Discar
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->''A mind all logic is like a knife all blade: it makes the hand bleed that wields it.''

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->''A ->''"A mind all logic is like a knife all blade: it makes the hand bleed that wields it.''"''
11th Feb '16 10:00:28 PM Avani
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11th Feb '16 10:00:13 PM Avani
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* The Straw Vulcan will often commit the FallacyFallacy, dismissing a conclusion simply because it was based on invalid logic or on emotion. While the fact that an argument contains a fallacy is grounds for dismissing that argument, it does not prove that the conclusion is wrong. Basically, you can get the [[RightForTheWrongReasons right answer for the wrong reason]].
* The Straw Vulcan will only accept a guaranteed success. A plan that only has a chance of success is not "logical", even if the chance is the highest possible. This is actually a well-known ''error'' in logic, called the PerfectSolutionFallacy. Spock and Tuvok both did this regularly in the various Star Trek works. Although they didn't say it outright, whenever they mentioned having calculated low odds for the success of a given plan, it was obvious that they did not believe said plan should be attempted. This was typically responded to by one of the humans saying the equivalent of, "damn the torpedoes!" which was intended to prove that said human characters were inherently irrational.
* The story assumes that anything which doesn't fit a particular mathematical model of logic isn't "logical". Related to the PerfectSolutionFallacy, again, because you can only find truly perfect 1=1 solutions and conceive of perfect circles in abstract mathematics.
* Related to the PerfectSolutionFallacy: The Straw Vulcan will proceed to disturb everyone with doomsaying that their current plan "only has a 10% chance for us to succeed", and then the emotional protagonist proceeds to disprove him by saying "NeverTellMeTheOdds" and succeeding. Actually, when all other options are depleted, the plan that has a 10% chance of success is logically superior to other courses of action that have less chance of success. (And presumably doing nothing means a 0% chance) Bothering people with remarks about low chances of success in critical situations may degrade their morale and thus further diminish said chances, so it doesn't make logical sense to quote poor odds unless there's a better option that can be taken.[[note]]Or the "logical" character forgot to factor the other characters' personalities into the equation, so telling the others it's unlikely to work actually [[InspirationalInsult makes it MORE likely they'll try harder than usual and therefore succeed]], just to prove the "logical" character wrong.[[/note]] Pessimism for pessimism's sake in a time of need simply isn't logical, no need to be the sensitive guy of the cast to figure ''that'' out.

to:

* The Straw Vulcan will often commit the FallacyFallacy, dismissing a conclusion simply because it was based on invalid logic or on emotion. While the The fact that an argument contains a fallacy is grounds for dismissing that argument, it does not prove that the conclusion is wrong. Basically, you can get the [[RightForTheWrongReasons right answer for the wrong reason]].
wrong.
* The Straw Vulcan will only accept a guaranteed success. A plan that only has a chance of success is not "logical", even if the chance is the highest possible. This is actually a well-known ''error'' in logic, called the PerfectSolutionFallacy. Spock and Tuvok both did this regularly in the various Star Trek works. Although they didn't say it outright, whenever they mentioned having calculated low odds for the success of a given plan, it was obvious that they did not believe said plan should be attempted. This was typically responded to by one of the humans saying the equivalent of, "damn the torpedoes!" which was intended to prove that said human characters were inherently irrational.
* The story assumes that anything which doesn't fit a particular mathematical model of logic isn't "logical". Related to the PerfectSolutionFallacy, again, because you can only find truly perfect 1=1 solutions and conceive of perfect circles in abstract mathematics.
* Related to the PerfectSolutionFallacy:
The Straw Vulcan will proceed to disturb everyone with doomsaying that their current plan "only has a 10% chance for us to succeed", and then the emotional protagonist proceeds to disprove him by saying "NeverTellMeTheOdds" and succeeding. Actually, when all other options are depleted, the plan that has a 10% chance of success is logically superior to other courses of action that have less chance of success. (And presumably doing nothing means a 0% chance) Bothering people with remarks about low chances of success in critical situations may degrade their morale and thus further diminish said chances, so it doesn't make logical sense to quote poor odds unless there's a better option that can be taken.[[note]]Or the "logical" character forgot to factor the other characters' personalities into the equation, so telling the others it's unlikely to work actually [[InspirationalInsult makes it MORE likely they'll try harder than usual and therefore succeed]], just to prove the "logical" character wrong.[[/note]] Pessimism for pessimism's sake in a time of need simply isn't logical, no need to be the sensitive guy of the cast to figure ''that'' out.



* The Straw Vulcan will be completely unable or unwilling to plan for unexpected and even illogical behavior from other parties. Perhaps the most common flaw of the Straw Vulcan is their inability to draw upon any knowledge which comes from being an emotional being. They seem unable to factor emotions, or any associated information, into their analysis; they are not so much "logical" beings as beings without a functional understanding of the nature of emotional processes.
* The Straw Vulcan, and by extension all logical thinkers, will be uncreative, or at least less so than [[HotBlooded emotional people]]. He will be unable to come up with an imaginative answer to an unusual problem, while the [[TheKirk emotional protagonist]], often despite having no real experience with this kind of situation, will be able to save the day. This is supposed to show that "logic" is inferior to "emotion" in that emotion can provide [[TakeAThirdOption a third and more favorable option]] to the logician's bad and worse options. Strictly speaking, this isn't so much about logic vs. emotion as it is about linear thinking vs. lateral thinking.
* The Straw Vulcan assumes that self-sacrifice isn't "logical", even though there can easily be situations where self-sacrifice is "logical".
* A Straw Vulcan will have to consider everything about the problem in full detail even in time-critical situations, while the emotional person will make the snap decisions necessary in this sort of situation. This will demonstrate how the "logical" Straw Vulcan is useless under pressure and therefore inferior to the emotional protagonist. The obvious flaw is that it's patently ''illogical'' to ignore time constraints in this manner. The technical term for this is "bounded rationality", as opposed to "classic rationality" which ''does'' assume that you have infinite time to gather information and consider.
28th Jan '16 9:09:02 AM TheCheshireCat
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Added DiffLines:

*** Tuvok had occasionally had the opportunity to avert this, as in one episode where a seemingly unstoppable energy field is slowly enveloping the ship, and after all their attempts to prevent it fail, he suggests simply waiting for it to consume them and seeing what happens. The rest of the crew objects, but he counters that they don't actually know what the energy field is, and given that all their other options have been exhausted, inaction is the only logical choice left to make, even if the odds of survival are low.
2nd Dec '15 5:59:56 PM Berrenta
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* In ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'', [[FantasticScience research magician]] Twilight Sparkle disregards repeated observational evidence of [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} Pinkie Pie's]] [[SpiderSense "Pinkie Sense"]] because it's not SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic. Then, under the influence of [[AmusingInjuries severe repeated head trauma]] and possible [[BurningWithAnger stress-induced brain aneurysm]], she concludes that it "just makes sense," and that you [[ScienceIsWrong "just have to choose to believe"]] in things you don't understand. After the inevitable InternetBacklash, the creator of the show, LaurenFaust, apologized, saying that that [[AccidentalAesop wasn't meant to be]] the moral to take away from the episode.

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* In ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'', [[FantasticScience research magician]] Twilight Sparkle disregards repeated observational evidence of [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} Pinkie Pie's]] [[SpiderSense "Pinkie Sense"]] because it's not SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic. Then, under the influence of [[AmusingInjuries severe repeated head trauma]] and possible [[BurningWithAnger stress-induced brain aneurysm]], she concludes that it "just makes sense," and that you [[ScienceIsWrong "just have to choose to believe"]] in things you don't understand. After the inevitable InternetBacklash, backlash, the creator of the show, LaurenFaust, Creator/LaurenFaust, apologized, saying that that [[AccidentalAesop wasn't meant to be]] the moral to take away from the episode.
20th Nov '15 1:17:15 PM Discar
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-->'''Carrot:''' Personal's not the same as important, sir.

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-->'''Carrot:''' --->'''Carrot:''' Personal's not the same as important, sir.sir.
** Death occasionally shows signs of this as well, since he doesn't really understand life in general. He'll often take things one step at a time, with each step being logical, but the end result being ridiculous. For example, when he made a swing for his grand-daughter. He attached the swing to the strongest branch of the tree. Then he attached it to the second-strongest branch as well, for stability. These branches were on opposite sides of the trunk, so the swing wouldn't swing. So he removed the trunk.
--->'''Death:''' [[AC:Makes perfect sense to]] ''[[AC:me]]''.
5th Nov '15 4:22:38 PM StFan
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* ''TomStrong'': Averted by Quetzalcoatl-9, a supercomputer created by parallel-universe Aztecs. He states straight-up that he is trusting Tom because it's the logical thing to do; they're in a textbook Prisoner's Dilemma, and trust, on average, yields slightly better results.

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* ''TomStrong'': ''ComicBook/TomStrong'': Averted by Quetzalcoatl-9, a supercomputer created by parallel-universe Aztecs. He states straight-up that he is trusting Tom because it's the logical thing to do; they're in a textbook Prisoner's Dilemma, and trust, on average, yields slightly better results.
6th Oct '15 1:09:22 PM MilesDryden
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* Played truly bizarrely in one route of ''Zero Escape VisualNovel/VirtuesLastReward'', where Phi, in discussing the Prisoner's Dilemma and Ambidex Game, continually refers to "Betray" as the "logical" and "rational" decision... despite going in depth on how it's sub-optimal for both the group and the individual, meaning that it's ''illogical'' and ''irrational'' by real-world rather than Straw Vulcan definitions of logic, unless for some reason you were applying logic with the goal of "Make the least advantageous decision." If you don't know what decision the other player will make, it ''is'' the most logical choice. If they chose to ally, then you're better off if you betray than if you ally. If they choose to betray, then you're still better off if you betray than if you ally (at least in the standard version--there's supposed to be a motivation to betray if you know your opponent will do the same, forming a Nash equilibrium at betray/betray).

to:

* Played truly bizarrely in one route of ''Zero Escape VisualNovel/VirtuesLastReward'', where Phi, in discussing the Prisoner's Dilemma and Ambidex Game, continually refers to "Betray" as the "logical" and "rational" decision... despite going in depth on how it's sub-optimal for both the group and the individual, meaning that it's ''illogical'' and ''irrational'' by real-world rather than Straw Vulcan definitions of logic, unless for some reason you were applying logic with the goal of "Make the least advantageous decision." If "
**If
you don't know what decision the other player will make, it ''is'' the most logical choice. If they chose to ally, then you're better off if you betray than if you ally. If they choose to betray, then you're still better off if you betray than if you ally (at least in the standard version--there's supposed to be a motivation to betray if you know your opponent will do the same, forming a Nash equilibrium at betray/betray).
1st Oct '15 1:33:06 AM VVK
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* In ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'', [[FantasticScience research magician]] Twilight Sparkle disregards repeated observational evidence of [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} Pinkie Pie's]] [[SpiderSense "Pinkie Sense"]] because it's not SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic. Then, under the influence of [[AmusingInjuries severe repeated head trauma]] and possible [[BurningWithAnger stress-induced brain aneurysm]], she concludes that it "just makes sense," and that you [[ScienceIsWrong "just have to choose to believe"]] in things you don't understand. In defense of the show, after the inevitable InternetBacklash, the creator of the show, LaurenFaust, apologized, saying that that wasn't meant to be the moral to take away from the episode.

to:

* In ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'', [[FantasticScience research magician]] Twilight Sparkle disregards repeated observational evidence of [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} Pinkie Pie's]] [[SpiderSense "Pinkie Sense"]] because it's not SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic. Then, under the influence of [[AmusingInjuries severe repeated head trauma]] and possible [[BurningWithAnger stress-induced brain aneurysm]], she concludes that it "just makes sense," and that you [[ScienceIsWrong "just have to choose to believe"]] in things you don't understand. In defense of the show, after After the inevitable InternetBacklash, the creator of the show, LaurenFaust, apologized, saying that that [[AccidentalAesop wasn't meant to be be]] the moral to take away from the episode.
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