History Main / StrawVulcan

19th Jul '17 10:23:29 AM lluewhyn
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***His plan is logical, but is poorly explained. He states "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one". Considering that he was going to die anyway if he *didn't* try his plan, it's absolutely logical for him to do so. Note also that this quote is a basic philosophical tenet of Utilitarianism, and is *not* considered an uncontroversial, absolute truth. Those who follow more Deontological philosophies would heartily disagree.
1st Jul '17 11:28:10 AM CaptEquinox
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*** That said, there was also an episode where the crew met an offshoot culture of Vulcans who ate meat and believed that emotion in moderation was not harmful in the slightest; as long as you had control over your emotions, there was no reason you couldn't allow yourself to feel and express that emotion. They were sort of an exploration of what would happen if you had Vulcans who weren't straw.

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*** That said, there was also an in the episode where "[[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS01E17Fusion Fusion]]" the crew met an offshoot culture of Vulcans who ate meat and believed that emotion in moderation was not harmful in the slightest; as long as you had control over your emotions, there was no reason you couldn't allow yourself to feel and express that emotion. They were sort of an exploration of what would happen if you had Vulcans who weren't straw.
22nd Jun '17 11:08:53 PM jormis29
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* A variation of this can happen to Alchemicals in ''{{Exalted}}'' -- as they grow into cities, install Exemplar charms, or go long periods without human interaction, they accumulate Clarity. The sourcebook for Alchemicals goes out of its way to point out that this means they focus on efficiency and do not become needlessly cruel.

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* A variation of this can happen to Alchemicals in ''{{Exalted}}'' ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'' -- as they grow into cities, install Exemplar charms, or go long periods without human interaction, they accumulate Clarity. The sourcebook for Alchemicals goes out of its way to point out that this means they focus on efficiency and do not become needlessly cruel.
4th Jun '17 1:06:45 PM marcoasalazarm
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* The Straw Vulcan is also [[ScienceIsBad cold-hearted and merciless]]. When they (for whatever reason) calculate that some people have to die (or suffer in another way), they just have to, and there's nothing you can do about it. Enter the [[TheMcCoy emotional man]] to show pity and protect them form the evil intellectual.

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* The Straw Vulcan is also [[ScienceIsBad cold-hearted and merciless]]. When they (for whatever reason) calculate that some people have to die (or suffer in another way), way) because TheNeedsOfTheMany requires it, they just have to, ''have to'', and there's nothing you can do about it.it (and expect them to toss those people to the wolves at the earliest possible time). Enter the [[TheMcCoy emotional man]] to show pity and protect them form the evil intellectual.
* The Straw Vulcan is an intellectual ArrogantKungFuGuy. If, for example, his calculations showcase that there is a 98.99% chance of success in a plan and another scientist proves that there is a 100% chance of success in the same plan (and they both reach the same conclusions using the same data and using the same calculation methods, but the Straw Vulcan is not discovered until later that he forgot to CarryTheOne), the Straw Vulcan will simply clamp down on that 2.1% chance of failure as an ''absolute'' probability of failure and drag his feet into helping as a result (at best) rather than admit the infinitesimally small chance that he's wrong .
4th Jun '17 12:37:00 PM nombretomado
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* ''Webcomic/{{Shortpacked}}'' parodies an instance of this from ''Film/GIJoeTheRiseOfCobra'' in [[http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=980 this strip]]. Willis labeled the strip "Is this something already covered by TVTropes? I haven't checked yet." in his update blog.

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* ''Webcomic/{{Shortpacked}}'' parodies an instance of this from ''Film/GIJoeTheRiseOfCobra'' in [[http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=980 this strip]]. Willis labeled the strip "Is this something already covered by TVTropes? Wiki/TVTropes? I haven't checked yet." in his update blog.
31st May '17 1:14:33 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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** [[spoiler:V.I.K.I.'s motivations]] are entirely rooted in logical thought. Sonny even comments that he can understand the logic behind the plan perfectly, "but it just seems too... heartless." [[spoiler:V.I.K.I.]]'s motivations are logical for her premise, it's her premise/goal that is wrong. She is looking to save lives at all costs, but one could argue there was a much better way to go about the coup that wouldn't set up an us-vs-them mentality that would encourage humans to fight to the death. The problem is that humans want more than just personal survival. We would rather accept small risk if it means enjoyment or a meaning in life, and would be inadvertently encouraged to die for freedom when it's an AndIMustScream world dictated by robots. If she had started out with the premise of "I must preserve human happiness" instead of "I must preserve human life" things would have been far different. Of course, life, unlike happiness, can be quantified.

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** [[spoiler:V.I.K.I.'s motivations]] are entirely rooted in logical thought. Sonny even comments that he can understand the logic behind the plan perfectly, "but it just seems too... heartless." [[spoiler:V.I.K.I.]]'s motivations are logical for her premise, it's her premise/goal that is wrong. She is looking to save lives at all costs, but one could argue there was a much better way to go about the coup that wouldn't set up an us-vs-them mentality that would encourage humans to fight to the death. The problem is that humans want more than just personal survival. We would rather accept small risk if it means enjoyment or a meaning in life, and would be inadvertently encouraged to die for freedom when it's an AndIMustScream world dictated by robots. If she had started out with the premise of "I must preserve human happiness" instead of "I must preserve human life" things would have been far different. Of course, life, unlike happiness, can be quantified.quantified, and even logic based on preserving and maximizing happiness can become something horrific when pushed to its logical conclusions.
21st May '17 2:56:30 PM nombretomado
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* The computer in ''WarGames'' is supposed to have mastered all sorts of game theory, without ever having realized that there could possibly be a game in which neither player could win [[spoiler:(until, of course at the end, they introduce it to tic-tac-toe, and have it play against itself)]]. The message isn't so much that you can't win a nuclear war, but that the ''correct'' move is not to "play the game" at all. At least that seems to be the Aesop. In any case, WOPPER's "logic" is sound and subverts the notion that one can rationally plan a nuclear war, so this may count as a subversion of the trope.

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* The computer in ''WarGames'' ''Film/WarGames'' is supposed to have mastered all sorts of game theory, without ever having realized that there could possibly be a game in which neither player could win [[spoiler:(until, of course at the end, they introduce it to tic-tac-toe, and have it play against itself)]]. The message isn't so much that you can't win a nuclear war, but that the ''correct'' move is not to "play the game" at all. At least that seems to be the Aesop. In any case, WOPPER's "logic" is sound and subverts the notion that one can rationally plan a nuclear war, so this may count as a subversion of the trope.
10th May '17 2:43:06 PM Gemser
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* The Straw Vulcan is also [[ScienceIsBad cold-hearted and merciless]]. When they (for whatever reason) calculate that some people have to die (or suffer in another way), they just have, and there's nothing you can do about it. Enter the [[TheMcCoy emotional man]] to show pity and protect them form the evil intellectual.

to:

* The Straw Vulcan is also [[ScienceIsBad cold-hearted and merciless]]. When they (for whatever reason) calculate that some people have to die (or suffer in another way), they just have, have to, and there's nothing you can do about it. Enter the [[TheMcCoy emotional man]] to show pity and protect them form the evil intellectual.
8th May '17 3:52:32 PM Gemser
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to:

* The Straw Vulcan is also [[ScienceIsBad cold-hearted and merciless]]. When they (for whatever reason) calculate that some people have to die (or suffer in another way), they just have, and there's nothing you can do about it. Enter the [[TheMcCoy emotional man]] to show pity and protect them form the evil intellectual.
1st Apr '17 9:36:01 AM nombretomado
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* Kyoya from ''OuranHighSchoolHostClub'' averts this to a degree; his actions are based purely upon what he can gain, and he acts exactly as a truly logical person would. In one manga chapter, Haruhi hypothesizes that emotional gains might be part of these. Kyoya is intrigued.

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* Kyoya from ''OuranHighSchoolHostClub'' ''Manga/OuranHighSchoolHostClub'' averts this to a degree; his actions are based purely upon what he can gain, and he acts exactly as a truly logical person would. In one manga chapter, Haruhi hypothesizes that emotional gains might be part of these. Kyoya is intrigued.
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