Main Straw Vulcan Discussion

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04:28:31 PM Jan 6th 2017
I feel like this trope is trying to prove a point in a much longer argument. It's worded like a short essay.
01:47:26 AM Feb 13th 2015
Would it be too natter-y or blunt to re-emphasize the 'straw' part of this? I've noticed a LOT of misuse of this trope where The Spock would be more appropriate. If it's not being used to emphasize a moral about the value of emotion vs. "pure" reason, it's just a Vulcan, not a straw Vulcan. It's just the same way that portraying a character having an opinion is just portraying a man, not a straw man. (Well, assuming said character is a man.)
05:30:54 AM Jun 24th 2013
With regards to the "saving someone you love" example: That's not really true. There's no logical reason to place one human life as more valuable than others simply because you have a closer relationship to them. Besides, that assumes that helping others is good, which is actually an emotional principle, not a logical one. Logic is simply a method of determining facts, it has nothing to do with coming up with solutions, unless you are using it to achieve a desire or compulsion (i. e., an emotion).
01:47:44 PM Jul 23rd 2013
Since noone replied I'm deleting.
12:43:41 PM Aug 5th 2011
edited by 42
I feel like this page could do with a distinction between logic and reasoning. The page talks about "logic" as if it were just careful or rigorous reasoning, which may cause confusion because logic often refers to formal systems of reasoning/deduction.

This would help clear up a lot of confusion, for example, here:

"The story assumes that anything which doesn't fit a particular mathematical model of logic isn't 'logical'.

For instance, assuming that 'logic' means 'using syllogisms'. Even speculation and testing hypotheses can then be called 'illogical', despite being the foundation of modern science. Heck, even logicians don't use syllogisms all the time."

Actual logicians are concerned with the study of study of correct reasoning — drawing inferences (almost always deductive inferences, ones that must be true given the premises), distinguishing valid arguments from invalid ones, making one's way from assumptions to their (immediately implied) consequences.

Logicians in general not concerned with inductive reasoning, i.e. reasoning about what is probably true, given certain assumptions or premises.

I understand that in colloquial use the term "logic" basically does refer to something like "informal logic" or "rigorous reasoning", however, I feel that for the purposes of this article, it would make it much more clear and accurate to make the distinction.

When Spock says “logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” — this isn't a truth of logic. It might be a truth of ethics, or it might "stand to reason" that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, but its not a truth of formal logic in the way that "Either something is the case, or something is not the case, but not both", which is a truth of logic. So I can see how the term is used much more loosely.

07:13:34 AM Jun 11th 2011
Is there a trope where the character is overly logical, but not used as a strawman?
07:22:14 AM Jun 11th 2011
Nevermind, it's The Spock.
07:07:14 PM Jan 5th 2011
Are the Vulcans of Star Trek the trope namers for Straw Vulcan?
12:39:24 PM Apr 30th 2011
What he said. Are they the Trope Namer?
04:38:44 PM Aug 27th 2012
Definitely. "Vulcans" were INVENTED in Star Trek, and Spock was used as this trope from time to time.
10:49:27 PM Dec 5th 2010
T He last line in the examples is a short sentence and a link to a long article that seems to have nothing to do with this page. I'm gonns go ahead and delete it.
03:33:17 AM Sep 21st 2010
Removed, because it does not seem to be an example of the trope.
01:03:07 PM May 29th 2010
Hume wasn't saying emotion was a better guide than reason, he was saying that to use reason you must already have a want, which can only be the work of emotion.
04:40:49 PM Aug 27th 2012
Exactly. Logical automatons have no intrinsic motivations, so they only follow orders.
04:47:43 PM Aug 27th 2012
edited by Carracosta
A straight use of this trope is a super-logical person who makes terrible decisions out of carelessness and, well, bad logic. I suppose a direct Deconstruction of this trope would be a character who's perfectly logical (but not uncaring) who makes actually pretty good decisions, including some choices nobody else thought of. It would be someone who proves that logic is better than emotions in making decisions.
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