History Main / SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids

[[folder:Films -- Animated]]

* ''WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall'' frequently [[DamnedByAFoolsPraise spoofs this attitude]] with the character of [[TotallyRadical 90s Kid]] (later [=90s=] Dude), a [[NoIndoorVoice loud]], [[{{Keet}} obnoxious]] teenage slacker who prefers [[UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicbooks blood, guns, and grittiness]] to actual plot or characterization, considering hope and joy to be "kid's stuff". Lewis (and Linkara) express disdain over series that take this line of thought such as ''ComicBook/MarshalLaw'' and ''ComicBook/TheBoys'' as the creators are known to actively hate superheroes and openly fuel their "deconstructions" as either naive idiots or complete monsters.

* ''Fanfic/ObitoSensei'': Obito takes this stance, having been hardened by his experiences during the Third Shinobi War. Including [[ForWantOfANail losing Kakashi on their first mission after his rival was promoted to jounin]]. [[spoiler:He starts to break out of it when Naruto and Sasuke tell him they plan to join Sakura as FakeDefectors, realizing they were what he was in the past during the Kanabi Bridge mission and how much he had changed since then]].

** In the main series:
Resident EmoTeen [[Characters/AvatarTheLastAirbenderZuko Zuko]] believes that [[Characters/AvatarTheLastAirbenderAvatarAang Aang's]] ideas about peace, pacifism, and forgiveness are childish. While [[RousseauWasRight he's proven wrong]] in the case of [[spoiler: Katara's need to avenge her mother]], and admits as much, the question of killing BigBad Ozai is more complicated; [[spoiler: Aang's ultimate non-lethal victory is only made possible by a discovery that some viewers consider a DeusExMachina, before which even Aang's idealistic friends and his previous incarnations argued that killing Ozai would be NecessarilyEvil]].
** The sequel comics also show that the world doesn't miraculously fix itself overnight after a hundred years of war and that even with a ReasonableAuthorityFigure on both sides of an issue, there is still room for trouble and moral complexity.

* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'':
** [[Characters/TheLegendOfKorraAvatarKorra Korra]] confronts this often. Her attempts to just solve problems because she's the Avatar run into local and national politics frequently, to the point where she's conned out of interfering in the Water Tribe Civil War until it's too late. When she tries to do a quid pro quo trade with the Earth Queen -- she collects the Queen's unpaid taxes, the Queen turns over any [[spoiler:airbenders]] in her city -- the queen lets Korra do all the work and then lies about there being any people to turn over, leaving Korra with nothing.
** Suyin's refusal to step up to lead [[spoiler:the Earth Kingdom after the Queen is assassinated in Season 3 and it falls into chaos]] due to her fears about maybe becoming a dictator are brushed aside by [[Characters/TheLegendOfKorraKuvira Kuvira]] (and many fans) as her simply not being willing to do what had to be done because of her own wants, similar to Aang above. [[spoiler:Unlike Aang, she gets burned badly for it.]]
** Likewise, the leaders of the other nations for assuming Kuvira would be honorable enough to work for years reuniting a kingdom (and building a cult of personality) just to hand it over to the prince who'd been living in luxury and exile the entire time.
** Even Season 3 BigBad ''[[Characters/TheLegendOfKorraZaheer Zaheer]]'' gets hit with this. He thought [[spoiler:killing the Earth Queen]] would lead to more freedom for their subjects. Instead, it led to an even more iron-fisted tyrant than the one who came before.
** An elderly [[Characters/AvatarTheLastAirbenderTophBeifong Toph]] even views such ideals of making the world a better place as naive. However, the moment she sees her family sacrifice themselves and fight Kuvira no matter how suicidal it was, such an act restored her faith in others' heroism.

-->'''The Sneetches''': We tried to teach tolerance and where did that get us? So fuck it, [[StoppedCaring we'd rather make mountains of lettuce!]]

* Resident EmoTeen [[Characters/AvatarTheLastAirbenderZuko Zuko]] from ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' believes that [[Characters/AvatarTheLastAirbenderAvatarAang Aang's]] ideas about peace, pacifism, and forgiveness are childish. While [[RousseauWasRight he's proven wrong]] in the case of [[spoiler: Katara's need to avenge her mother]], and admits as much, the question of killing BigBad Ozai is more complicated; [[spoiler: Aang's ultimate non-lethal victory is only made possible by a discovery that some viewers consider a DeusExMachina, before which even Aang's idealistic friends and his previous incarnations argued that killing Ozai would be NecessarilyEvil]].

* ''WesternAnimation/BeastMachines'' had [[spoiler: Silverbolt]] from the previous series return halfway through. Much to Blackaraknia's dismay, however, he had turned rather sour after being [[spoiler: reprogrammed temporarily by Megatron]] and at first outright sneered at anyone who brought up his [[WideEyedIdealist past point of view]]

* [[https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/sci-fi-fantasy-and-the-status-quo This article]] from [=CurrentAffairs.org=] criticizes a perceived lack of aspirational idealism in current speculative fiction. It notes in particular Creator/JKRowling's remarks on [[WhereAreTheyNowEpilogue the post-series lives]] of the ''Franchise/HarryPotter'' characters, noting in particular that the childhood social radicalism of Hermione--especially regarding the wizarding world's enslavement of house-elves and otherwise treating intelligent magical nonhuman beings as second-class citizens--dissipates into a government job.
-->"Rowling has claimed that after the story ends, Hermione continues to fight for the rights of the downtrodden as an employee of the “Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures”. (Apparently she doesn't fight very hard, or she would have done something about the department's name.)"
* On the ''WebVideo/DreamSMP'', in a flashback sequence to the L'Manberg election arc, it is revealed that [[spoiler:Wilbur, who had already been turned into a [[CynicismCatalyst jaded ex-idealist by trauma]] by that point, was the one who advised Quackity, then an idealistic NaiveNewcomer, that violence was the key to power and security on the server. After an extensive TraumaCongaLine and reaching his DespairEventHorizon, Quackity embraces the mentality and proceeds to use this tactic on other characters to [[ManipulativeBastard convince them]] to join his new country, Las Nevadas... with copious amounts of IHatePastMe PsychologicalProjection implicated in the manipulation.]]
* In the ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'' episode "Heroes and Monsters", Ruby Rose, despite being on the ropes, is still determined to be the hero, save the day, and stop Roman Torchwick and the other bad guys from wrecking Vale. Torchwick laughs that off and tells her if she still wants to be the hero, then she should die like the other Huntsman. He also tells her Remnant has no room for her type of idealism, it should die along with her and he'll keep doing what he does best - "lie, cheat, steal and survive!" [[spoiler:A split second later, a Griffin Grimm gives him the ultimate ShutUpHannibal by [[SwallowedWhole eating him]].]] Adam Taurus tells Blake Belladonna the same thing in the same episode: when she tells him that she wanted peace and equality for the Faunus races, Adam says "What you want ''is impossible!''"

** [[Characters/TheLegendOfKorraAvatarKorra Korra]] confronts this often. Her attempts to just solve problems because she's the Avatar run into local and national politics frequently, to the point where she's conned out of interfering in the Water Tribe Civil War until it's too late. When she tries to do a quid pro quo trade with the Earth Queen--she collects the Queen's unpaid taxes, the Queen turns over any [[spoiler: airbenders]] in her city--the queen lets Korra do all the work and then lies about there being any people to turn over, leaving Korra with nothing.
** Suyin's refusal to step up to lead [[spoiler: the Earth Kingdom after the Queen is assassinated in season 3 and it falls into chaos]] due to her fears about maybe becoming a dictator are brushed aside by [[Characters/TheLegendOfKorraKuvira Kuvira]] (and many fans) as her simply not being willing to do what had to be done because of her own wants, similar to Aang above. [[spoiler: Unlike Aang, she gets burned badly for it.]]

** Even season 3 BigBad ''[[Characters/TheLegendOfKorraZaheer Zaheer]]'' gets hit with this. He thought [[spoiler: killing the Earth Queen]] would lead to more freedom for their subjects. Instead, it led to an even more iron-fisted tyrant than the one who came before.

** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a literal gray area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in theory, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans see the conservatives who voted for Perot as people who effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for [[FunWithAcronyms Getting Republicans Elected Every November]]. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like ranked-choice voting[[note]]Which almost surprisingly now cities throughout the United States like San Francisco or Minneapolis and then-recently Maine (even against the odds of a fight to keep it in effect for months by the Maine Supreme Court ruling this as unconstitutional at state level) adopted the system within the last two decades to get rid of the spoiler effect, but the problem is it's taking a while due to the [[StrawmanNewsMedia news media]] still [[PropagandaMachine convincing people]] to vote Democrat or Republican by outright ''fear'' instead of ideological reasons to back them.[[/note]] or approval voting to try to break this effect.

* On the ''LetsPlay/DreamSMP'', in a flashback sequence to the L'Manberg election arc, it is revealed that [[spoiler:Wilbur, who had already been turned into a [[CynicismCatalyst jaded ex-idealist by trauma]] by that point, was the one who advised Quackity, then an idealistic NaiveNewcomer, that violence was the key to power and security on the server. After an extensive TraumaCongaLine and reaching his DespairEventHorizon, Quackity embraces the mentality and proceeds to use this tactic on other characters to [[ManipulativeBastard convince them]] to join his new country, Las Nevadas... with copious amounts of IHatePastMe PsychologicalProjection implicated in the manipulation.]]

* In ''Series/{{Castle}}'', Detective Kate Beckett has been jaded, cynical, and bitter ever since her mother was murdered when Kate was a teenager and the murder was never solved. Her CharacterDevelopment -- helped along by her increased tolerance of, friendship with, and feelings for immature and optimistic ManChild Richard Castle -- has largely been centred around reawakening her optimism and hope for the future; as evidence, simply compare [[WhenSheSmiles how much she smiles]] in any given episode of season one as opposed to any given episode of season five.

* Resident EmoTeen Zuko from ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' believes that Aang's ideas about peace, pacifism, and forgiveness are childish. While [[RousseauWasRight he's proven wrong]] in the case of [[spoiler: Katara's need to avenge her mother]], and admits as much, the question of killing BigBad Ozai is more complicated; [[spoiler: Aang's ultimate non-lethal victory is only made possible by a discovery that some viewers consider a DeusExMachina, before which even Aang's idealistic friends and his previous incarnations argued that killing Ozai would be NecessarilyEvil]].

** Korra confronts this often. Her attempts to just solve problems because she's the Avatar run into local and national politics frequently, to the point where she's conned out of interfering in the Water Tribe Civil War until it's too late. When she tries to do a quid pro quo trade with the Earth Queen--she collects the Queen's unpaid taxes, the Queen turns over any [[spoiler: airbenders]] in her city--the queen lets Korra do all the work and then lies about there being any people to turn over, leaving Korra with nothing.
** Suyin's refusal to step up to lead [[spoiler: the Earth Kingdom after the Queen is assassinated in season 3 and it falls into chaos]] due to her fears about maybe becoming a dictator are brushed aside by Kuvira (and many fans) as her simply not being willing to do what had to be done because of her own wants, similar to Aang above. [[spoiler: Unlike Aang, she gets burned badly for it.]]

** Even season 3 BigBad ''Zaheer'' gets hit with this. He thought [[spoiler: killing the Earth Queen]] would lead to more freedom for their subjects. Instead, it led to an even more iron-fisted tyrant than the one who came before.
** An elderly Toph even views such ideals of making the world a better place as naive. However, the moment she sees her family sacrifice themselves and fight Kuvira no matter how suicidal it was, such an act restored her faith in others' heroism.

* Leninist(Trotskyists, Marxist-Leninists, and Maoists) and other authoritarian minded socialists tend to have this attitude towards more libertarian-minded socialists(anarchists, humanist Marxists, as well as democratic socialists), believing that any movement that does not commit themselves to a centralized organizational structure and the use of all means necessary to seize power on the basis that said means will only result in another new form of tyranny will doom themselves to failure or co-option by the state. Marxist-Leninists and Maoists, as their ideologies have taken root in various countries go even further and believe that any and all critiques by less authoritarian socialists and Trotskyists criticizing the authoritarianism and atrocities of the various Marxist-Leninist governments as both providing ammo for right wing arguements against any form of socialism and neglecting the circumstances that supposedly pushed said governments to act the way they did.

* In ''Manga/OnePiece'', when the Sun Pirates helps a young human girl (whom they had grown to cherish) return to her village, Arlong is quick to ruin their mood by stating that Koala will grow up to hate fishmen like any other human. [[spoiler:While he was wrong about Koala to the point that she's a Revolutionary and substitute teacher of the Fishman style of martial arts]], he was right about the people of Koala's hometown, who repaid Fisher Tiger's kindness in returning the ex-slave child by reporting him to the Marines, who mortally wounded him, purely out of FantasticRacism.

* In American politics, supporters of third-party candidates aren't congratulated for participating in the democratic system and standing up for what they believe in. Instead, supporters of third party candidates like Bob Barr, Ralph Nader, Cynthia [=McKinney=], Jill Stein, and Gary Johnson along with idealistic candidates in both the mainstream parties like Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, and UsefulNotes/RonPaul, are often demonized by Bipartisan centrists/moderates and Republican conservatives/right-wingers on their side of the aisle and belittled by the media, with the justification that "compromise is better than idealism."

* Subverted in ''Manga/RurouniKenshin''. When the villains try to BreakTheCutie Kaoru by saying that martial arts are for killing, the titular protagonist agrees.. but also says that he prefers the idealism over the truth.

* SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids/LiveActionTV

* ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'': Almost every character, even the people he saves, are often completely baffled that [[TheHero Touma Kamijou]] will help anyone who needs it and interfere with problems that have nothing to do with him ([[ChronicHeroSyndrome even if there's good chance he might get killed]]), not expecting any reward or fame, but just because he feels it is right and he believes anyone else in his situation would do the same. Several characters think Touma really has some kind of ulterior motive or is insane.

* SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids/AnimeAndManga
* SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids/FanWorks

* Lux in ''LightNovel/UndefeatedBahamutChronicle'' is repeatedly told this by others. An excellent example is by his older and less-scrupulous half-brother Fugil. Lux and Fugil both took part in a rebellion to depose their tyrannical family, with the former defeating his opponents non-lethally and intending to spare them afterwards. Fugil killed the rest of the royal family (save for himself, Lux, and their younger sister Airi), the nobles, and the army then lectured Lux on how his approach would have gotten him stabbed in the back later on.

* SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids/ComicBooks

* SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids/{{Literature}}

* SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids/WesternAnimation

** Another critique is not so much about idealism but simply skepticism about the HoldingOutForAHero mentality of third parties and other challengers, who largely equate the power of political change with Presidential elections rather than sustaining an effective grassroots movement in local, county, state and congressional elections to effectively build the connections and infrastructure needed to form a viable party. Ralph Nader was criticized by the likes of Chomsky and others for more or less contesting in 1999 and then sitting on the margins for four years and then once again planning a third-party bid in 2003-2004. Mostly, third-party candidates run a campaign of a [[HeroicWannabe "little guy" changing a system all by themselves]] without doing any of the groundwork needed to actually make that change happen. After all, the third party in American politics that achieved the most results (the Republican Party of the [=1850s=]) worked exactly that way. But even in terms of grassroots movements there's still a lot of opposition with well-connected candidates gaining favor among establishment instead of grassroots outsiders.