History Main / ParabolicPowerCurve

3rd Dec '17 9:58:04 AM nombretomado
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* The [[DifficultyByRegion US and EU releases]] of RPG ''{{The 7th Saga}}'' altered level-up stat gains waaay downward, resulting in lots of ForcedLevelGrinding. It also had boss battles with other characters [[DynamicDifficulty at the same level as yours]] - but with the ''old'' stat gain formula. If you leveled up ''too'' far, their stats would outmatch yours to an unbeatable degree.

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* The [[DifficultyByRegion US and EU releases]] of RPG ''{{The ''VideoGame/{{The 7th Saga}}'' altered level-up stat gains waaay downward, resulting in lots of ForcedLevelGrinding. It also had boss battles with other characters [[DynamicDifficulty at the same level as yours]] - but with the ''old'' stat gain formula. If you leveled up ''too'' far, their stats would outmatch yours to an unbeatable degree.
1st Dec '17 5:08:18 PM Temporary14
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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'' had some class combinations run into this, while others didn't. Due to how the LevelScaling worked, classes who leveled up by using non-combat skills (like Speechcraft) would inevitably get into encounters with creatures who [[EverythingTryingToKillYou weren't interested in talking things out]], whereas combat-oriented classes weren't so burdened because they spent their levels killing things. Likewise, the attribute bonuses for a given level-up could be messed up by leveling up with skills governed by the wrong attribute (like a mage getting bonuses for the [[DumpStat Personality attribute]] instead of [[MagicIsMental Intelligence and Willpower]] because they trained up Illusion magic, a Personality based skill). Also, while enemies scaled with the NPC, many allied NPCs either didn't have this scaling, or had the same low-level equipment even at the highest levels. Because friendly NPCs [[ArtificialStupidity behave like suicidal lemmings on crack]], escort missions became increasingly difficult at high levels, with the highest level players having to constantly heal/shield their allies, nuke all the enemies in the area with custom Destruction spells before the battle could even begin, or sedate their TriggerHappy allies with Illusion magic until the battle was over to keep them from committing suicide by joining the fight. The good news it that aside from Martin (who at least can heal himself, levels with the player, and gets good equipment), there are almost no instances where losing NPC allies makes the mission unwinnable, though it often does leave the player to fight all the high-level enemies alone.

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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'' had some class combinations run into this, while others didn't. Due to how the LevelScaling worked, classes who leveled up by using non-combat skills (like Speechcraft) would inevitably get into encounters with creatures who [[EverythingTryingToKillYou weren't interested in talking things out]], whereas combat-oriented classes weren't so burdened because they spent their levels killing things. Likewise, the attribute bonuses for a given level-up could be messed up by leveling up with skills governed by the wrong attribute (like a mage getting bonuses for the [[DumpStat Personality attribute]] instead of [[MagicIsMental Intelligence and Willpower]] because they trained up Illusion magic, a Personality based skill). Also, while enemies scaled with the NPC, PC, many allied NPCs characters either didn't have this scaling, or had the same low-level equipment even at the highest levels. Because friendly NPCs characters [[ArtificialStupidity behave like suicidal lemmings on crack]], crack in combat]], escort missions became increasingly difficult at high levels, with the highest level players having to constantly heal/shield their allies, nuke all the enemies in the area with custom Destruction spells before the battle could even begin, or sedate their TriggerHappy allies with Illusion magic until the battle was over to keep them from committing suicide by joining the fight. The good news it that aside from Martin (who at least can heal himself, levels with the player, and gets good equipment), there are almost no instances where losing NPC allies makes the mission unwinnable, though it often does leave the player to fight all the high-level enemies alone.
1st Dec '17 5:06:41 PM Temporary14
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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'' raised quite a furor over this. Due to how the LevelScaling worked, it was reputedly easier to fight the FinalBoss at level 1 than at level 20.
** The problem (or lack thereof) is based almost entirely on the player's class. If you spent your twenty levels [[ClassyCatBurglar being nice to people and stealing their stuff when they aren't looking]], the above is true when you get into areas where [[EverythingTryingToKillYou none of the entities around want to talk to you]]. If you're [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy a combat-oriented class]], you won't have the above problem, because you've spent twenty levels killing things.
** Regardless of what type of class you are the way stat increases were given forced the player to play in extremely specific ways. It was possible to weaken your character by gaining a level of "athletics" (ie, moving, so completely unavoidable) at the wrong time. In fact, to get the best stats possible, you would need to level up your 21 different skills in a very specific order (several of which raise by doing passive things like moving, jumping, getting hit).
** Also, NPC equipment never scales and they all have the artificial intelligence of a suicidal lemming on crack. Escort missions become difficult at level fifteen, borderline impossible at level twenty, and unwinnable at level twenty-five.
** A large part of the problem was that while enemies scaled with the player's level, many friendly [=NPCs=] didn't. An early battle was designed to be fought by the player with a bunch of similar level allies against a bunch of similar level daedra. If the player levelled up a bit first, it instead became a bunch of low level allies being instantly slaughtered by high level daedra and leaving the player to deal with them all. Since this was an early part of the main story, it could become essentially impossible to progress at all. The same problem applied to the final boss, but since that was designed as a higher level fight to start with the friendly [=NPCs=] weren't quite so badly outclassed.
*** Depending on class, there was a workaround: The Illusion school could, among other things, make people stop fighting, and could render them invisible. Long story short: if you were a master level illusionist, the easiest way to escort Mr. TriggerHappy was to '''sedate''' him, hide the body, then clear the area yourself before he woke up to commit suicide by joining the fight.
** It gets worse. Damage, both weapons and magical is capped (stats only go so high), but health is level dependent. So as you level beyond a certain stage, you and your enemies grow more durable, but your damage stays the same, leading to long, drawn out slug fests. Worse still, monster damage does scale with level, forcing the player to rely on a GameBreaker to kill anything at the higher levels, which in turn makes things too easy instead.

to:

* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'' raised quite a furor over this. had some class combinations run into this, while others didn't. Due to how the LevelScaling worked, it was reputedly easier to fight the FinalBoss at level 1 than at level 20.
** The problem (or lack thereof) is based almost entirely on the player's class. If you spent your twenty levels [[ClassyCatBurglar being nice to people and stealing their stuff when they aren't looking]], the above is true when you
classes who leveled up by using non-combat skills (like Speechcraft) would inevitably get into areas where encounters with creatures who [[EverythingTryingToKillYou none of the entities around want to talk to you]]. If you're [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy a weren't interested in talking things out]], whereas combat-oriented class]], you won't have the above problem, classes weren't so burdened because you've they spent twenty their levels killing things.
** Regardless of what type of class you are
things. Likewise, the way stat increases were attribute bonuses for a given forced the player to play in extremely specific ways. It was possible to weaken your character level-up could be messed up by gaining a level of "athletics" (ie, moving, so completely unavoidable) at leveling up with skills governed by the wrong time. In fact, to get the best stats possible, you would need to level up your 21 different skills in attribute (like a very specific order (several of which raise by doing passive things like moving, jumping, mage getting hit).
**
bonuses for the [[DumpStat Personality attribute]] instead of [[MagicIsMental Intelligence and Willpower]] because they trained up Illusion magic, a Personality based skill). Also, NPC equipment never scales and they all have the artificial intelligence of a suicidal lemming on crack. Escort missions become difficult at level fifteen, borderline impossible at level twenty, and unwinnable at level twenty-five.
** A large part of the problem was that
while enemies scaled with the player's level, NPC, many allied NPCs either didn't have this scaling, or had the same low-level equipment even at the highest levels. Because friendly [=NPCs=] didn't. An early battle was designed to be fought by the player with a bunch of similar level allies against a bunch of similar level daedra. If the player levelled up a bit first, it instead NPCs [[ArtificialStupidity behave like suicidal lemmings on crack]], escort missions became a bunch of low level allies being instantly slaughtered by increasingly difficult at high level daedra and leaving the player to deal with them all. Since this was an early part of the main story, it could become essentially impossible to progress at all. The same problem applied to the final boss, but since that was designed as a higher level fight to start levels, with the friendly [=NPCs=] weren't quite so badly outclassed.
*** Depending on class, there was a workaround: The Illusion school could, among other things, make people stop fighting, and
highest level players having to constantly heal/shield their allies, nuke all the enemies in the area with custom Destruction spells before the battle could render them invisible. Long story short: if you were a master level illusionist, the easiest way to escort Mr. even begin, or sedate their TriggerHappy allies with Illusion magic until the battle was over to '''sedate''' him, hide the body, then clear the area yourself before he woke up to commit keep them from committing suicide by joining the fight.
** It
fight. The good news it that aside from Martin (who at least can heal himself, levels with the player, and gets worse. good equipment), there are almost no instances where losing NPC allies makes the mission unwinnable, though it often does leave the player to fight all the high-level enemies alone.
** Another issue came with inconsistent scaling.
Damage, both of weapons and magical is capped (stats only go so high), but health is level dependent. So as you level beyond a certain stage, you and your enemies grow more durable, but your damage stays the same, leading to long, drawn out slug fests. Worse still, monster damage does scale with level, forcing which made certain enemies much harder unless the player resorted to rely on a GameBreaker to kill anything at like 100% Chameleon or the higher levels, best alchemy poisons, which in turn makes things could make the game too easy easy, instead.
24th May '17 12:33:28 PM KitsuneInari
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Added DiffLines:

*** In other words: [[RocketTagGameplay Linear Defence, Quadratic Attack]].
23rd Apr '17 11:51:49 AM DastardlyDemolition
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** Then there's ''Point Lookout'', whose Swampfolk and Tribals not only have the highest HP and DR of any human enemies despite their lack of armor, but their weapons are haxed to deal unblockable damage bonuses much like the ''Broken Steel'' Overlords. What's worse Point Lookout Tribals and Swampfolk carry double-barrel shotguns that do +35 damage '''per pellet'' for a total of 400 hit points if all 9 pellets hit. Yippee.

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** Then there's ''Point Lookout'', whose Swampfolk and Tribals not only have the highest HP and DR of any human enemies despite their lack of armor, but their weapons are haxed to deal unblockable damage bonuses much like the ''Broken Steel'' Overlords. What's worse Point Lookout Tribals and Swampfolk carry double-barrel shotguns that do +35 damage '''per pellet'' pellet''' for a total of 400 hit points if all 9 pellets hit. Yippee.
23rd Apr '17 11:51:26 AM DastardlyDemolition
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** It gets even worse if you have the ''Broken Steel'' DLC installed. Once you pass level 15, some new monsters start showing up (Albino Rad Scorpion, Feral Ghoul Reaver, Super Mutant Overlord, etc...) who are much tougher and stronger than anything that came before them, with the sole exception of the Super Mutant Behemoth. Unlike the Behemoths however, these NuclearNasties ''respawn'' and these monsters are tough for a ''level 30'' character (someone who hit the level cap), let alone a level 15 player, and the Overlords are given an additional 35 points of damage with their Tri-Beam Lasers.

to:

** It gets even worse if you have the ''Broken Steel'' DLC installed. Once you pass level 15, some new monsters start showing up (Albino Rad Scorpion, Feral Ghoul Reaver, Super Mutant Overlord, etc...) who are much tougher and stronger than anything that came before them, with the sole exception of the Super Mutant Behemoth. Unlike the Behemoths however, these NuclearNasties [[NuclearNasty Nuclear Nasties]] ''respawn'' and these monsters are tough for a ''level 30'' character (someone who hit the level cap), let alone a level 15 player, and the Overlords are given an additional 35 points of damage with their Tri-Beam Lasers.
23rd Apr '17 11:50:49 AM DastardlyDemolition
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** It gets even worse if you have the Broken Steel DLC installed. Once you pass level 15, some new monsters start showing up (Albino Rad Scorpion, Feral Ghoul Reaver, Super Mutant Overlord, etc...) who are much tougher than anything that came before them, with the sole exception of the Super Mutant Behemoth.
** Then there's Point Lookout, whose Swampfolk and Tribals not only have the highest HP and DR of any human enemies despite their lack of armor, but their weapons are haxed to deal unblockable damage bonuses.

to:

** It gets even worse if you have the Broken Steel ''Broken Steel'' DLC installed. Once you pass level 15, some new monsters start showing up (Albino Rad Scorpion, Feral Ghoul Reaver, Super Mutant Overlord, etc...) who are much tougher and stronger than anything that came before them, with the sole exception of the Super Mutant Behemoth.
Behemoth. Unlike the Behemoths however, these NuclearNasties ''respawn'' and these monsters are tough for a ''level 30'' character (someone who hit the level cap), let alone a level 15 player, and the Overlords are given an additional 35 points of damage with their Tri-Beam Lasers.
** Then there's Point Lookout, ''Point Lookout'', whose Swampfolk and Tribals not only have the highest HP and DR of any human enemies despite their lack of armor, but their weapons are haxed to deal unblockable damage bonuses.bonuses much like the ''Broken Steel'' Overlords. What's worse Point Lookout Tribals and Swampfolk carry double-barrel shotguns that do +35 damage '''per pellet'' for a total of 400 hit points if all 9 pellets hit. Yippee.
2nd Apr '17 4:15:16 PM nombretomado
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* Due to a glitch, this can happen to seriously overleveled characters in ''PhantasyStarIV''. Once a character's level gets a few levels away from 100, their stats begin to drop sharply and they lose skills. This isn't an issue in normal play, however; you can beat the game at around level 45-50, and the experience required to get that high of a level is so massive that it takes very deliberate effort to get that high (XP requirements for a single level up when in the 90s range are more than the total XP need to be able to beat the game).

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* Due to a glitch, this can happen to seriously overleveled characters in ''PhantasyStarIV''.''VideoGame/PhantasyStarIV''. Once a character's level gets a few levels away from 100, their stats begin to drop sharply and they lose skills. This isn't an issue in normal play, however; you can beat the game at around level 45-50, and the experience required to get that high of a level is so massive that it takes very deliberate effort to get that high (XP requirements for a single level up when in the 90s range are more than the total XP need to be able to beat the game).
26th Mar '17 2:18:43 PM nombretomado
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** ''OgreBattle 64'' also had one nasty problem with leveling. Dragons are particularly powerful enemies, and in order to get several powerful magical crests, you've got to defeat two dragons, and a dragon tamer (strengthens dragons) in a random battle in a certain place. If you don't do the battle early enough, the dragons are all extremely strong. Smart players would bring a strong multi-attacker, and two Pumpkin Heads (HP Halving attacks), but those are late game enemies, and only available by recruiting a special character.

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** ''OgreBattle 64'' ''VideoGame/OgreBattle64'' also had one nasty problem with leveling. Dragons are particularly powerful enemies, and in order to get several powerful magical crests, you've got to defeat two dragons, and a dragon tamer (strengthens dragons) in a random battle in a certain place. If you don't do the battle early enough, the dragons are all extremely strong. Smart players would bring a strong multi-attacker, and two Pumpkin Heads (HP Halving attacks), but those are late game enemies, and only available by recruiting a special character.
31st Dec '16 9:14:26 PM nombretomado
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* ''{{Geneforge}} 3'' gives the player canisters that can increase his attributes, but using too many makes him suffer [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity violent mood swings]]. Although this doesn't make the game unwinnable, eventually the player will not be able to take certain quests due to the character flying off the handle and attacking the quest givers. What makes this all the more annoying is the fact that the player was warned of this in the previous two ''Geneforge'' games, but due to GameplayAndStorySegregation nothing significant ever came of it. So when the warnings show up here for the third time, the player is likely to disregard them until past the point of no return.

to:

* ''{{Geneforge}} ''VideoGame/{{Geneforge}} 3'' gives the player canisters that can increase his attributes, but using too many makes him suffer [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity violent mood swings]]. Although this doesn't make the game unwinnable, eventually the player will not be able to take certain quests due to the character flying off the handle and attacking the quest givers. What makes this all the more annoying is the fact that the player was warned of this in the previous two ''Geneforge'' games, but due to GameplayAndStorySegregation nothing significant ever came of it. So when the warnings show up here for the third time, the player is likely to disregard them until past the point of no return.
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