History Main / OnlyBadGuysCallTheirLawyers

15th May '17 5:02:17 PM AnoneMouseJr
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* On ''Series/{{Baywatch}}'', when Eddie is arrested for statutory rape [[FalseRapeAccusation(wrongly, as the supposed victim lied)]], one of the cops questioning him, who happens to be a friend of his, gently tells him that he shouldn't have waived his rights to an attorney. Eddie angrily and staunchly tells him that he doesn't need one because he didn't do anything.

to:

* On ''Series/{{Baywatch}}'', when Eddie is arrested for statutory rape [[FalseRapeAccusation(wrongly, [[FalseRapeAccusation (wrongly, as the supposed victim lied)]], one of the cops questioning him, who happens to be a friend of his, gently tells him that he shouldn't have waived his rights to an attorney. Eddie angrily and staunchly tells him that he doesn't need one because he didn't do anything.
18th Apr '17 8:19:08 PM Fireblood
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* Thoroughly deconstructed in ''Film/MyCousinVinny'', which is often held up as a case of why you should always ask for a lawyer. The boys are innocent, they try to explain and cooperate, and through PoorCommunicationKills accidentally confess to murder when they thought they were confessing to shoplifting. If it wasn't for Stan's cousin Vinny arriving to be their lawyer, they'd have been executed.

to:

* Thoroughly deconstructed in ''Film/MyCousinVinny'', which is often held up as a case of used to illustrate why you should always ask for a lawyer. The boys are innocent, they try to explain and cooperate, and through PoorCommunicationKills accidentally confess to murder when they thought they were confessing to shoplifting. If it wasn't for Stan's cousin Vinny arriving to be their lawyer, they'd have been executed.
12th Apr '17 7:33:32 PM DrOO7
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* Frequently done on ''Series/WalkerTexasRanger''. Even with hard-core criminals who usually know to keep their mouths shut and ask for an attorney. Asking for one immediately makes someone look like an unrepentant sleazeball hiding behind [[AmoralAttorney an equally sleazy attorney]]. To make matters worse, it's usually Alex, a prosecutor who is ''not allowed'' to lie to a suspect, who is seen doing something very similar to the NYPD example posted above--telling them that if they ask for a lawyer, all chances of a deal are gone.

to:

* Frequently done on ''Series/WalkerTexasRanger''. Even with hard-core criminals who usually know to keep their mouths shut and ask for an attorney. Asking for one immediately makes someone look like an unrepentant sleazeball hiding behind [[AmoralAttorney an equally sleazy attorney]]. To make matters worse, it's usually Alex, a prosecutor who is ''not allowed'' to lie to a suspect, who is seen doing something very similar to the NYPD example posted above--telling them that if they ask for a lawyer, all chances of a deal are gone. On the show, this always makes the criminal quickly agree to cooperate In RealLife, this is flat-out unethical conduct that would result in her being​ reprimanded.
** Another especially bad example involves a bratty kid demanding a lawyer before he talks to the cops. His father refuses and basically threatens to beat the crap out of him if he doesn't tell the cops what he knows. The Rangers stand there looking downright smug and amused at the whole thing. Never mind that they just violated the rights of someone who, as rude as he is, explicitly asked for an attorney.
** In another episode, two rangers, Sydney and Gage arrive at someone's home to ask if his brother (their murder suspect) is there. The man says no and tries to close the door on them, only for Gage to push it open and force his way into the apartment-ówithout a warrant, and against the man's clearly expressed refusal to let them in.
** This trope is applied so frequently that when Alex herself is a murder suspect, she talks to the cops and assistant DA without an attorney. As a lawyer herself, she should know how stupid this is--her own father, also an attorney, practically gives her a DopeSlap about this.


Added DiffLines:

* On ''Series/{{Baywatch}}'', when Eddie is arrested for statutory rape [[FalseRapeAccusation(wrongly, as the supposed victim lied)]], one of the cops questioning him, who happens to be a friend of his, gently tells him that he shouldn't have waived his rights to an attorney. Eddie angrily and staunchly tells him that he doesn't need one because he didn't do anything.
4th Apr '17 12:11:50 AM Discar
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** Luke consistently rejects the idea of having a lawyer until the last moments of the series, foreshadowing a potential first meeting with [[Series/Daredevil2015 Matt Murdock]] in time for ''Series/TheDefenders''.

to:

** Luke consistently rejects the idea of having a lawyer until the last moments of the series, foreshadowing series. He claims that since he's innocent, he doesn't need a potential first meeting with lawyer, even though Claire keeps insisting that [[Series/Daredevil2015 Matt Murdock]] in time she knows a good one]]. He finally relents when he is arrested for ''Series/TheDefenders''.[[spoiler:illegally escaping from Seagate (where he was imprisoned for a crime he was framed for)]], a crime he ''did'' commit.
31st Mar '17 4:29:54 PM CaptainCrawdad
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* In the United States, at least, if the police appear to think that you have committed a crime (and especially if they've actually arrested you), you should definitely not say anything to them except for asking to see a lawyer. [[MirandaRights "Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law,"]] no matter how innocuous you think it may be. Even saying that you're innocent[[note]]"I didn't do anything wrong, so can I go now?"[[/note]] can be twisted against you.[[note]]"Mr. Troper seemed uneasy, despite claiming he had nothing to hide, yet constantly asked to be released, as if he ''did'' have something to hide. After all, why would a seemingly innocent man be so nervous around police?"[[/note]] Note, however, that this isn't true in all countries. In the United Kingdom, for example, the suspect is told that [[YouDoNotHaveToSayAnything he should not withhold any information that he will later rely on in court.]]
** You still have the right to silence[[note]]albeit both qualified and limited; some forms of silence, e.g. refusing to give up an encryption key, can result in a conviction ''on their own'' even if no other crime was committed[[/note]], and really should say nothing until you have talked to a solicitor, but the UK system allows the prosecution to suggest to the jury that it is suspicious that you didn't explain yourself at the time and only gave an explanation months later when you could have had time to fabricate something. It's certainly not proof you are guilty, but it can weaken your case.
*** Not strictly true: Scotland has a separate legal system to the rest of the United Kingdom (known as [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Scots law]]), wherein one of the differences is the presence of an unqualified/absolute right to silence. The qualified (i.e. your silence can be used against you) right to silence only applies in England and Wales (and possibly Northern Ireland). Further details can be found at YouDoNotHaveToSayAnything.
** And that's not getting into all the different ways that "acting like someone who is innocent" can translate into "showing no remorse" with the right prosecutor.
* [[http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html This lecture by Prof. James Duane of the Regent University School of Law and Officer George Bruch of the Virginia Beach Police Department]] ([[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc Alt-Link]]) explains why you should always get a lawyer. Examples given include falling into INeverSaidItWasPoison[[note]]if you make assumptions about the crime and are right, it looks like you have knowledge of the crime that the police never gave you[[/note]] and accidentally confessing to something you didn't know was a crime. The most pointed element in the lecture is the revelation that if you implicate yourself in any way, it may be used against you in court, just as the Miranda warning says. However, anything else you say, even if it's ''helpful'' for your case, may not be brought up. Even if you bring the officer who heard what you said that helps your case onto the stand, and even if he tells the truth, the prosecutor can have it thrown out as "hearsay".
** The difference, here, is that the things ''you'' say to the police are classed as 'party statements,' which fall under an exception to the hearsay rule, and which can only be used ''against'' the party who said it, not ''for'' them. If you want to get a statement by you that helps your case into evidence that you made to the police after being arrested, it can only come in under the 'prior consistent statement' exception, which is much more narrow. The crux of the issue is reliability: statements that help your case post-arrest are tainted by the fact that you have a motive to lie. Statements that undermine your case are effectively admissions that you wouldn't have made if you weren't involved.
** The former police detective also reveals many of the tricks of the trade. One is the one where interrogators agree to turn off their tape recorder to make suspects at ease, and very conspicuously turn it off in front of them. It's meaningless, as interrogation rooms have audio and video recording, but can make suspects give statements as they don't realize this. He points out what everyone must always remember--[[LyingToThePerp police are allowed to lie]], at least in most circumstances.
** It should also be noted that in the US asking for a lawyer does not mean the police have to get you a lawyer--it just means that they can't ask you any more questions without one. They could theoretically wait around until you start speaking again--at which point you would need to assert your desire to be silent and to have a lawyer again.

to:

* In the United States, at least, if the police appear to think that you have committed a crime (and especially if they've actually arrested you), you should definitely not say anything to them except for asking to see a lawyer. [[MirandaRights "Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law,"]] no matter how innocuous you think it may be. Even saying that you're innocent[[note]]"I didn't do anything wrong, so can I go now?"[[/note]] can be twisted against you.[[note]]"Mr. Troper seemed uneasy, despite claiming he had nothing to hide, yet constantly asked to be released, as if he ''did'' have something to hide. After all, why would a seemingly innocent man be so nervous around police?"[[/note]] Note, however, that this isn't true in all countries. In the United Kingdom, for example, the suspect is told that [[YouDoNotHaveToSayAnything he should not withhold any information that he will later rely on in court.]]
** You still have the right to silence[[note]]albeit both qualified and limited; some forms of silence, e.g. refusing to give up an encryption key, can result in a conviction ''on their own'' even if no other crime was committed[[/note]], and really should say nothing until you have talked to a solicitor, but the UK system allows the prosecution to suggest to the jury that it is suspicious that you didn't explain yourself at the time and only gave an explanation months later when you could have had time to fabricate something. It's certainly not proof you are guilty, but it can weaken your case.
*** Not strictly true: Scotland has a separate legal system to the rest of the United Kingdom (known as [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Scots law]]), wherein one of the differences is the presence of an unqualified/absolute right to silence. The qualified (i.e. your silence can be used against you) right to silence only applies in England and Wales (and possibly Northern Ireland). Further details can be found at YouDoNotHaveToSayAnything.
**
police?"[[/note]] And that's not getting into all the different ways that "acting like someone who is innocent" can translate into "showing no remorse" with the right prosecutor.
* [[http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html This lecture by Prof. James Duane of the Regent University School of Law and Officer George Bruch of the Virginia Beach Police Department]] ([[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc Alt-Link]]) explains why you should always get a lawyer. Examples given include falling into INeverSaidItWasPoison[[note]]if you make assumptions about the crime and are right, it looks like you have knowledge of the crime that the police never gave you[[/note]] and accidentally confessing to something you didn't know was a crime. The most pointed element in the lecture is the revelation that if you implicate yourself in any way, it may be used against you in court, just as the Miranda warning says. However, anything else you say, even if it's ''helpful'' for your case, may not be brought up. Even if you bring the officer who heard what you said that helps your case onto the stand, and even if he tells the truth, the prosecutor can have it thrown out as "hearsay".
** The difference, here, is that the things ''you'' say to the police are classed as 'party statements,' which fall under an exception to the hearsay rule, and which can only be used ''against'' the party who said it, not ''for'' them. If you want to get a statement by you that helps your case into evidence that you made to the police after being arrested, it can only come in under the 'prior consistent statement' exception, which is much more narrow. The crux of the issue is reliability: statements that help your case post-arrest are tainted by the fact that you have a motive to lie. Statements that undermine your case are effectively admissions that you wouldn't have made if you weren't involved.
** The former police detective also reveals many of the tricks of the trade. One is the one where interrogators agree to turn off their tape recorder to make suspects at ease, and very conspicuously turn it off in front of them. It's meaningless, as interrogation rooms have audio and video recording, but can make suspects give statements as they don't realize this. He points out what everyone must always remember--[[LyingToThePerp police are allowed to lie]], at least in most circumstances.
** It should also be noted that in the US asking for a lawyer does not mean the police have to get you a lawyer--it just means that they can't ask you any more questions without one. They could theoretically wait around until you start speaking again--at which point you would need to assert your desire to be silent and to have a lawyer again.
"hearsay."
10th Mar '17 7:48:37 PM dmcreif
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** Stabler is practically the poster child for why you ''should'' lawyer up and not say anything other than "I want a lawyer" until you get one, and in real life any halfway competent defense attorney could have most cases Stabler is involved in thrown out of court because of precisely this tendency of his. But police actually following real life procedures doesn't make for dramatic TV.
** Deconstructed in a later episode when Rollings was framed for a murder. Despite her captain's advice she refused to lawyer up, claiming she did nothing wrong, and tried to be as helpfull as possible, being completely honest and even bringing new evidence to the InternalAffairs. She ended up inadvertently implicating herself and got arrested for her trouble. Being a detective herself, she should've known better. On the other hand, she didn't expect for [[spoiler:her own sister]] to set her up. Thankfully, her coworkers managed to trick the guilty party into confessing of the frame up.

to:

** ***In fact, Stabler is practically the poster child for why you ''should'' lawyer up and not say anything other than "I want a lawyer" until you get one, and in one. In real life life, any halfway competent halfway-competent defense attorney could have most cases Stabler is involved in thrown out of court because of precisely this tendency of his. But police actually following real life procedures doesn't make for dramatic TV.
** Deconstructed in a later episode when Rollings was framed for a murder. Despite her captain's advice she refused to lawyer up, claiming she did nothing wrong, and tried to be as helpfull helpful as possible, being completely honest and even bringing new evidence to the InternalAffairs. She ended up inadvertently implicating herself and got arrested for her trouble. Being a detective herself, she should've known better. On the other hand, she didn't expect for [[spoiler:her own sister]] to set her up. Thankfully, her coworkers managed to trick the guilty party into confessing of the frame up.
1st Mar '17 11:43:18 AM dmcreif
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** Discussed again in the season 2 episode "Cobbler" when Daniel Warmolt, a newtime drug dealer who's been ripped off by Nacho, calls the cops to complain about his baseball card collection being stolen, but the cops quickly suspect that he's a drug dealer and start investigating ''him'' under the guise of investigating the burglary. Jimmy figures this out and insists on acting as his attorney. The cops are openly suspicious that a man who ''called'' the cops has an attorney present during questioning. Jimmy ultimately has to come up with an outlandish justification for why the dealer is so protective of his privacy to throw the cops off the trial.

to:

** Discussed again in the season 2 episode "Cobbler" when Daniel Warmolt, a newtime drug dealer who's been ripped off by Nacho, calls the cops to complain about his baseball card collection being stolen, but the cops quickly suspect that he's a drug dealer and start investigating ''him'' under the guise of investigating the burglary. Jimmy figures this out and insists on acting as his Mike hires Jimmy to be Daniel's attorney. The cops are openly suspicious that a man who ''called'' the cops has an attorney present during questioning. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaHNB7DUm8g Jimmy ultimately has to come up with an outlandish justification justification]] for why the dealer is so protective of his privacy to throw the cops off the trial.trail.
2nd Feb '17 9:43:41 AM Piromano80
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* Deliberately used as a red herring in one of the ''Eagle Eye Mysteries'' challenge cases where one of the suspects is uncooperative and demands a lawyer. If you accuse her of the crime, her careful explanation of innocence assumes that you did so primarily because of that reason.


Added DiffLines:

* [[InvokedTrope Deliberately used]] as a RedHerring in one of the ''Videogame/EagleEyeMysteries'' challenge cases where one of the suspects is uncooperative and demands a lawyer. If you accuse her of the crime, her careful explanation of innocence assumes that you did so primarily because of that reason.
13th Dec '16 7:59:15 AM dmcreif
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* ''Film/TheTown'': Agent Frawley claims this to be true when a woman they brought in for questioning (who doesn't know her new boyfriend is a high-profile robber) asks him whether or not she should have a lawyer present. Though he prefaces it by saying "it isn't a very civil libertarian thing" for him to say, as he's a cop. When she's later implicated in her boyfriend's crimes, he says that this time she really will need a lawyer.

to:

* ''Film/TheTown'': Agent Adam Frawley claims this to be true when a woman they brought in for questioning Claire Keesey (who doesn't know her new boyfriend is a high-profile robber) asks him whether or not she should have a lawyer present. Though he prefaces it by saying "it isn't a very civil libertarian thing" for him to say, as he's a cop. When she's Claire is later implicated in her boyfriend's Doug's crimes, he says that this time she really will need a lawyer.



* Thoroughly deconstructed in ''Film/MyCousinVinny'', which is often held up as a case of why you should always ask for a lawyer. The boys are innocent, they try to explain and cooperate, and through PoorCommunicationKills accidentally confess to murder. If it wasn't for Stan's cousin Vinny arriving to be their lawyer, they'd have been executed.

to:

* Thoroughly deconstructed in ''Film/MyCousinVinny'', which is often held up as a case of why you should always ask for a lawyer. The boys are innocent, they try to explain and cooperate, and through PoorCommunicationKills accidentally confess to murder.murder when they thought they were confessing to shoplifting. If it wasn't for Stan's cousin Vinny arriving to be their lawyer, they'd have been executed.
13th Dec '16 7:57:49 AM dmcreif
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** Candace gives a false witness account to Misty on behalf of Mariah. Mariah sends a lawyer to Candace to make sure her story stays straight, but the interviewing officer tries to pressure her into ignoring the lawyer's advice and coming clean.
** Luke consistently rejects the idea of having a lawyer until the last moments of the series, foreshadowing a potential first meeting with Matt Murdock.
** Shades, a career criminal, spends his entire time while under arrest requesting a lawyer. The interrogating officer continues to question him without a lawyer present, even though his testimony would be invalid at this point. Despite her best efforts to intimidate him with the ''long'' jail time he's looking at, he refuses to crack and even trolls her a little at the end of the scene.
** When cops hunting for Luke pick up a street kid who knows him, the boy immediately demands that his mother, who is in law school, be present. The interviewing officer, who has become emotional over the case, continues to interrogate him without a lawyer present and eventually assaults him.

to:

** Candace gives a false witness account to Misty on behalf of Mariah. Mariah sends a lawyer does send Benjamin Donovan to Candace to make sure her story stays straight, but the interviewing officer Misty tries to pressure her into ignoring the lawyer's advice and coming clean.
** Luke consistently rejects the idea of having a lawyer until the last moments of the series, foreshadowing a potential first meeting with [[Series/Daredevil2015 Matt Murdock.
Murdock]] in time for ''Series/TheDefenders''.
** Shades, a career criminal, spends his entire time while under arrest requesting a lawyer. The interrogating officer Inspector Ridley continues to question him without a lawyer present, even though his testimony would be invalid at this point. Despite her best efforts to intimidate him with the ''long'' jail time he's looking at, he refuses to crack and even trolls her a little at the end of the scene.
** When
little.
**After Diamondback kills a police officer to implicate Luke as a CopKiller, some
cops hunting for Luke pick up Lonnie, a street kid who that knows him, the Luke. The boy immediately demands that his mother, who is in law school, be present. The interviewing officer, who Unfortunately, tensions are high, Luke is believed to have killed one cop and assaulted two others (and the dead cop happens to be the interrogator's former training officer), and Lonnie has become emotional over a bit of an attitude, causing the case, continues interrogator to interrogate him without a lawyer present and eventually assaults him. lose his temper and take it out on Lonnie.
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