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History Main / JustFollowingOrders

17th May '16 2:34:48 PM Kalaong
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* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn_Zln_4pA8 IRS]] on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IntimidatingRevenueService for being {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but he sees them as an underfunded, understaffed, overworked group of ''[[BeleagueredBureaucrat Beleaguered]]'' [[BeleagueredBureaucrat Bureaucrats]] who are JustFollowingOrders - and not orders from their superiors in the IRS, but [[ShootTheMessenger orders given to them]] by ''Congress''; orders that they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity; most of the people who made the Nazi regime work were overworked bureaucrats. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II IBM even sold them the computers they used.]]

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* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn_Zln_4pA8 IRS]] on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IntimidatingRevenueService for being {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but he sees them as an underfunded, understaffed, overworked group of ''[[BeleagueredBureaucrat Beleaguered]]'' [[BeleagueredBureaucrat Bureaucrats]] who are JustFollowingOrders - and not orders from their superiors in the IRS, but [[ShootTheMessenger orders given to them]] by ''Congress''; orders that they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", "Gestapo", one can see the similarity; most of the people who made the Nazi regime work were overworked bureaucrats. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II IBM even sold them the computers they used.]]
17th May '16 2:34:30 PM Kalaong
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* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the IntimidatingRevenueService on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IRS for being {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but he sees them as an underfunded, understaffed, overworked group of ''[[BeleagueredBureaucrat Beleaguered]]'' [[BeleagueredBureaucrat Bureaucrats]] who are JustFollowingOrders - and not orders from their superiors in the IRS, but [[ShootTheMessenger orders given to them]] by ''Congress''; orders that they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity; most of the people who made the Nazi regime work were overworked bureaucrats. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II IBM even sold them the computers they used.]]

to:

* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the IntimidatingRevenueService [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn_Zln_4pA8 IRS]] on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IRS IntimidatingRevenueService for being {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but he sees them as an underfunded, understaffed, overworked group of ''[[BeleagueredBureaucrat Beleaguered]]'' [[BeleagueredBureaucrat Bureaucrats]] who are JustFollowingOrders - and not orders from their superiors in the IRS, but [[ShootTheMessenger orders given to them]] by ''Congress''; orders that they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity; most of the people who made the Nazi regime work were overworked bureaucrats. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II IBM even sold them the computers they used.]]
16th May '16 12:01:18 PM Kalaong
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* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the IntimidatingRevenueService on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IRS for being {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but they are Just Following orders from ''Congress'' - orders they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity.

to:

* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the IntimidatingRevenueService on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IRS for being {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but they he sees them as an underfunded, understaffed, overworked group of ''[[BeleagueredBureaucrat Beleaguered]]'' [[BeleagueredBureaucrat Bureaucrats]] who are Just Following JustFollowingOrders - and not orders from ''Congress'' - their superiors in the IRS, but [[ShootTheMessenger orders given to them]] by ''Congress''; orders that they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity.similarity; most of the people who made the Nazi regime work were overworked bureaucrats. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II IBM even sold them the computers they used.]]
16th May '16 11:58:15 AM Kalaong
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* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the IntimidatingRevenueService on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IRS for being ObstructiveBureaucrats who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but they are Just Following orders from ''Congress'' - orders they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity.

to:

* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the IntimidatingRevenueService on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IRS for being ObstructiveBureaucrats {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but they are Just Following orders from ''Congress'' - orders they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity.
16th May '16 11:57:52 AM Kalaong
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Added DiffLines:

* Creator/JohnOliver never comes out and says the exact words, but this is the heart of he defense of the IntimidatingRevenueService on ''Series/LastWeekTonightWithJohnOliver'': everyone hates the IRS for being ObstructiveBureaucrats who [[TaxmanTakesTheWinnings take everyone's money]], but they are Just Following orders from ''Congress'' - orders they are constantly '''[[MovingTheGoalposts changing]].''' It still makes for an interesting examination of the trope; though Oliver decries calling the IRS "Nazis", one can see the similarity.
9th May '16 8:12:01 PM trixus
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** Would be but even soldiers who win the war are still gonna be put on trial if someone can put them at the place of an ethnic cleansing. History shows that you can't always win but murder has no statute of limitation.
1st May '16 10:02:41 PM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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** ThoseWackyNazs were particularly good at setting up a system that rewards ideological fellowship over blind obedience: In the Nazi bureaucracy, orders often weren't formulated explicitly. Instead they vaguely formulated goals and had their subordinates do what is necessary to achieve them.

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** ThoseWackyNazs ThoseWackyNazis were particularly good at setting up a system that rewards ideological fellowship over blind obedience: In the Nazi bureaucracy, orders often weren't formulated explicitly. Instead they vaguely formulated goals and had their subordinates do what is necessary to achieve them.
1st May '16 10:01:52 PM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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* The infamous [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce Christmas Truces]] in World Wars I and II were proof that many soldiers on both sides had no interest in killing each other outside of being ordered to do so. Many of these truces actually had the armies from both sides venturing out into No-Man's Land together to bury fallen comrades, exchange gifts, play football, and even ''sing carols.''

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* The infamous [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce Christmas Truces]] in World Wars I and II were proof that many soldiers on both sides had no interest in killing each other outside of being ordered to do so. Many of these truces actually had the armies from both sides venturing out into No-Man's Land together to bury fallen comrades, exchange gifts, play football, and even ''sing carols.''



** This can be an even stronger motivation for immoral behavior than just being forced into obedience. Also, the belief that it is for a higher good, be it [[ForScience science]] or [[PoliticalIdeologies an ideology]], motivates people to transgress moral norms.
** [[ThoseWackyNazis The Nazis]] were particularly good at setting up a system that rewards ideological fellowship over blind obedience: In the Nazi bureaucracy, orders often weren't formulated explicitly. Instead they vaguely formulated goals and had their subordinates do what is necessary to achieve them.
* Another famous experiment, the StanfordPrisonExperiment, showed that even ordinary people given authority over their peers will invariably become drunk on power, ''[[PunchClockVillain even when they go back to normal lives outside of the prison]]''. More recent experiments have shown that one is more likely to abuse authority if the position involves power without respect and/or prestige (e.g. traffic cops, the DMV, staff managers). This means they won't get in trouble if caught and are unlikely to lose much even if they do. Or they hate the job so much they just don't care.

to:

** This can be an even stronger motivation for immoral behavior than just being forced into obedience. Also, the belief that it is for a higher good, be it [[ForScience science]] or [[PoliticalIdeologies [[UsefulNotes/PoliticalIdeologies an ideology]], motivates people to transgress moral norms.
** [[ThoseWackyNazis The Nazis]] ThoseWackyNazs were particularly good at setting up a system that rewards ideological fellowship over blind obedience: In the Nazi bureaucracy, orders often weren't formulated explicitly. Instead they vaguely formulated goals and had their subordinates do what is necessary to achieve them.
* Another famous experiment, the StanfordPrisonExperiment, showed appeared to demonstrate that even ordinary people given authority over their peers will invariably can become drunk on power, ''[[PunchClockVillain ''[[BecomingTheMask even when they go back to normal lives outside of the prison]]''. More recent experiments have shown that one is more likely to abuse authority if the position involves power without respect and/or prestige (e.g. traffic cops, the DMV, staff managers). This means they won't get in trouble if caught and are unlikely to lose much even if they do. Or they hate the job so much they just don't care.
10th Apr '16 3:21:28 AM outlander2012
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* Plenty of villains and Mooks try to use this to justify their involvement in the Other Side's plans in the ''Literature/President'sVampire'' series. It never sways the protagonist, Nathaniel Cade, a bit.

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* Plenty of villains and Mooks try to use this to justify their involvement in the Other Side's plans in the ''Literature/President'sVampire'' ''Literature/PresidentsVampire'' series. It never sways the protagonist, Nathaniel Cade, a bit.
10th Apr '16 3:14:42 AM outlander2012
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Added DiffLines:

* Plenty of villains and Mooks try to use this to justify their involvement in the Other Side's plans in the ''Literature/President'sVampire'' series. It never sways the protagonist, Nathaniel Cade, a bit.
-->'''Nathaniel Cade''': Just following orders? I was ''there'' when that defence was invented. It didn't work then, either.
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