History Main / IKnowYouKnowIKnow

18th Nov '16 1:19:00 PM Larkmarn
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Not to be confused with [[Music/TeganAndSara "I Know I Know I Know"]] or the theme song to ''Series/{{Psych}}''.

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Not to be confused with [[Music/TeganAndSara "I Know I Know I Know"]] or the theme song to ''Series/{{Psych}}''.
''Series/{{Psych}}'' (though the latter is an example).
18th Nov '16 12:10:18 PM Lawyerdude
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** The climax of the third book brings this to an epic level. Thrawn knows that the New Republic wants to capture an important bit of technology, of which only three are known to exist, all on Imperial worlds. The New Republic knows that Thrawn knows this. They also know that one system is heavily protected while another is only lightly defended. Thrawn knows that they know this. The New Republic knows that Imperial Intelligence is very good and will pick up disinformation that shows an attack on the lightly protected system is in the works. Meanwhile they actually plan to attack the heavily-fortified one. Thrawn knows that the New Republic knows that his intelligence is that good, and that the "secret plans" are a deception, so he disregards those attack plans and prepares for the ''real'' attack. The one thing ''neither side'' knew was that the Smuggler companies had all agreed among themselves to back the Republic by hitting whichever target they didn't on the assumption that Thrawn would be at the real target and they would be well paid for succeeding where the military failed. The rebels thought they were on the other side and handed them the false lead, which they thought was a real tip, and so they showed up as unanticipated Rebel reinforcements completely by accident.

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** The climax of the third book brings this to an epic level. Thrawn knows that the New Republic wants to capture an important bit of technology, of which only three are known to exist, all on Imperial worlds. The New Republic knows that Thrawn knows this. They also know that one system is heavily protected while another is only lightly defended. Thrawn knows that they know this. The New Republic knows that Imperial Intelligence is very good and will pick up disinformation that shows an attack on the lightly protected system is in the works. Meanwhile they actually plan to attack the heavily-fortified one. (Because both sides know that the New Republic stands a better chance of victory in either case so long as Thrawn himself and his fleet aren't there.) Thrawn knows that the New Republic knows that his intelligence is that good, and that the "secret plans" are a deception, so he disregards those attack plans and prepares for the ''real'' attack. The one thing ''neither side'' knew was that the Smuggler companies had all agreed among themselves to back the Republic by hitting whichever target they didn't on the assumption that Thrawn would be at the real target and they would be well paid for succeeding where the military failed. The rebels thought they were on the other side and handed them the false lead, which they thought was a real tip, and so they showed up as unanticipated Rebel reinforcements completely by accident.
14th Nov '16 1:32:13 PM merotoker
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** Especially when [[spoiler: L and Light start working together to catch Kira, who is actually Light. L was always slightly better at the up close and personal mindgames, but Light fared better in the end.]]

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** Especially when [[spoiler: L and Light start working together to catch Kira, who is actually Light. L was always slightly better at the up close and personal mindgames, but Light fared better in the end.]]end]].



* ''TabletopGame/ShadowHunter'', is a MeleeATrois with the Shadows (monsters), the [[TheHunter Hunters]], and the neutral. The shadows must kill the hunters. The hunters mist kill the shadows. The neutrals have their own objectives. One of the neutral is Daniel, whose InstantWinCondition is [[DeathSeeker being the first to die]]. So inexperienced players who end up with Daniel may attack others randomly, hoping to get killed through retaliation. Experienced players will see right through it. So an experienced player may attack everyone at random to avoid retaliation by making everyone think they are Daniel. But if they are experienced and know he is experienced, they will see right through the charade. So an experienced player playing with other experienced players who know he is experienced and ends up with Daniel will attack other at random to make them believe he is someone pretending to be Daniel, hoping to be killed by the others to prevent him from becoming TheSpannerInTheWorks. But experienced players knowing he is experienced knowing he knows they know he is experienced will see right through this charade, but an experienced player who knows he plays with experienced players who know he is experienced and that he knows they know...

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* ''TabletopGame/ShadowHunter'', is a MeleeATrois with the Shadows (monsters), the [[TheHunter Hunters]], and the neutral. The shadows must kill the hunters. The hunters mist kill the shadows. The neutrals have their own objectives. One of the neutral is Daniel, whose InstantWinCondition is [[DeathSeeker being the first to die]]. So inexperienced players who end up with Daniel may attack others randomly, hoping to get killed through retaliation. Experienced players will see right through it. So an experienced player may attack everyone at random to avoid retaliation by making everyone think they are Daniel. But if they are experienced and know he is experienced, they will see right through the charade. So an experienced player playing with other experienced players who know he is experienced and ends up with Daniel will attack other at random to make them believe he is someone pretending to be Daniel, hoping to be killed by the others to prevent him from becoming TheSpannerInTheWorks.the SpannerInTheWorks. But experienced players knowing he is experienced knowing he knows they know he is experienced will see right through this charade, but an experienced player who knows he plays with experienced players who know he is experienced and that he knows they know...



* ''ComicBook/CerebusTheAardvark'' does this several times, usually involving Lord Julius, a Clown Prince of {{MagnificentBastard}}y. Astoria also does this to Cerebus [[spoiler:even while chained to his dungeon wall]].

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* ''ComicBook/CerebusTheAardvark'' does this several times, usually involving Lord Julius, a Clown Prince of {{MagnificentBastard}}y.{{Magnificent Bastard}}y. Astoria also does this to Cerebus [[spoiler:even while chained to his dungeon wall]].



* Played with in ''FanFic/MyImmortal''. When [[strike:Ebony]] Enoby travels back in time, she knows that [[strike:Snape]] Snoop possessed [[strike:James]] Samaro and made him kill [[strike:Lucius]] Lucian. She, however, did not "want them to know [she] knew." Whether or not Tom knew she knew is not made clear, but it is likely, as [[spoiler:he is Volxemort and commanded Snop.]] "Suddenly it's a {{sitcom}}," the dramatic reading snarked at this bit.

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* Played with in ''FanFic/MyImmortal''. When [[strike:Ebony]] Enoby travels back in time, she knows that [[strike:Snape]] Snoop possessed [[strike:James]] Samaro and made him kill [[strike:Lucius]] Lucian. She, however, did not "want them to know [she] knew." Whether or not Tom knew she knew is not made clear, but it is likely, as [[spoiler:he is Volxemort and commanded Snop.]] Snop]]. "Suddenly it's a {{sitcom}}," the dramatic reading snarked at this bit.



-->'''Barbara Novak:''' I knew the minute [[spoiler:I placed an ad as an equal-oportunity employer, you would be the first to apply.]]
-->'''Catcher Block:''' And I knew you knew [[spoiler:and you'd let me in to ask you to marry me.]]

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-->'''Barbara Novak:''' I knew the minute [[spoiler:I placed an ad as an equal-oportunity equal-opportunity employer, you would be the first to apply.]]
apply]].
-->'''Catcher Block:''' And I knew you knew [[spoiler:and you'd let me in to ask you to marry me.]]me]].



** And Barbara's entire speech at the end where she reveals [[spoiler:that she knew everything that happened in the movie would happen and planned the entire plot accordingly.]]

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** And Barbara's entire speech at the end where she reveals [[spoiler:that she knew everything that happened in the movie would happen and planned the entire plot accordingly.]]accordingly]].



** ''Literature/HereticsOfDune'' has this played between the Bene Gesserit, Bene Tleilax and Honored Matres. The Bene Gesserit outplay the other two powers resulting in the Honored Matres destroying Tleilax and Rakis, the latter very much JustAsPlanned. This continues between the Bene Gesserit and Honored Matres in ''Literature/ChapterhouseDune'' with the former having to use their knowledge and cunning to outmaneuver the latter's greater phyisical force.

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** ''Literature/HereticsOfDune'' has this played between the Bene Gesserit, Bene Tleilax and Honored Matres. The Bene Gesserit outplay the other two powers resulting in the Honored Matres destroying Tleilax and Rakis, the latter very much JustAsPlanned. [[AllAccordingToPlan just as planned]]. This continues between the Bene Gesserit and Honored Matres in ''Literature/ChapterhouseDune'' with the former having to use their knowledge and cunning to outmaneuver the latter's greater phyisical physical force.



* Characters in the ''Literature/LymondChronicles'' are prone this. A particularly risible example is in TheGameOfKings, where Lymond, who is trying to help the Scottish forces, and knows his brother will disbelieve anything he says, LIES to him about the English intentions, knowing Richard will conclude the opposite.

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* Characters in the ''Literature/LymondChronicles'' are prone this. A particularly risible example is in TheGameOfKings, ''TheGameOfKings'', where Lymond, who is trying to help the Scottish forces, and knows his brother will disbelieve anything he says, LIES to him about the English intentions, knowing Richard will conclude the opposite.



* In Creator/TimothyZahn's Literature/TheThrawnTrilogy (''Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse'' books), part of MagnificentBastard Thrawn's effectiveness in battle is based on his reputation: his enemies know fully well he's a a nigh-unparalleled master strategist and tactician, so from their perspective each and every move he makes is like Schrodinger's Gambit, existing in a state of It's A Trap and It's Not A Trap until they open the box and the waveform collapses.

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* In Creator/TimothyZahn's Literature/TheThrawnTrilogy (''Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse'' books), part of MagnificentBastard Thrawn's effectiveness in battle is based on his reputation: his enemies know fully well he's a a nigh-unparalleled master strategist and tactician, so from their perspective each and every move he makes is like Schrodinger's Gambit, existing in a state of It's A Trap and It's Not A Trap until they open the box and the waveform collapses.



* "Plugged" by [[Creator/EoinColfer Eoin Colfer]]: "He lied, and we both knew; what we didn't know was whether the other knew that we knew."

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* "Plugged" by [[Creator/EoinColfer Eoin Colfer]]: Creator/EoinColfer: "He lied, and we both knew; what we didn't know was whether the other knew that we knew."



* Used in the ''Series/StargateSG1'' episode "Ripple Effect". SG1-Prime and an Alternate SG1 are trying to seize control of the Daedalus from each other by setting traps and impersonating their counterparts. SG1-Prime eventually wins because they anticipated that the bad guys would expect their initial plan so they set up another plan accordingly.

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* Used in the ''Series/StargateSG1'' episode "Ripple Effect". SG1-Prime [=SG1=]-Prime and an Alternate SG1 [=SG1=] are trying to seize control of the Daedalus from each other by setting traps and impersonating their counterparts. SG1-Prime [=SG1=]-Prime eventually wins because they anticipated that the bad guys would expect their initial plan so they set up another plan accordingly.



** At the end of S5 Ep6 "Chimera", [=McGee=] summs up the situation involving a Navy research ship that isn't, pirates who are actually Russian sailors on a state-sponsored covert op and a Soviet nuclear warhead that the US thought that the Russians didn't know about but clearly did. And now we know that they knew.

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** At the end of S5 Ep6 [=Ep6=] "Chimera", [=McGee=] summs sums up the situation involving a Navy research ship that isn't, pirates who are actually Russian sailors on a state-sponsored covert op and a Soviet nuclear warhead that the US thought that the Russians didn't know about but clearly did. And now we know that they knew.



* Myka and H.G. have a good one in ''{{Warehouse 13}}'' quickly becoming complex making Myka's partner tell them to stop a small part below

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* Myka and H.G. have a good one in ''{{Warehouse ''Series/{{Warehouse 13}}'' quickly becoming complex making Myka's partner tell them to stop a small part below



** when one team manages to figure out the second team's signals they'll usually try to only act on that knowledge at a critical point in the game. The second manager might intentionally allow them to try and steal the signal so at the critical point they think they know what's being planned. Which could cause paranoia in the first manager if the signal seemed too easy to steal, leading to suspicion of a setup. Which the second manager would know, so...

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** when When one team manages to figure out the second team's signals they'll usually try to only act on that knowledge at a critical point in the game. The second manager might intentionally allow them to try and steal the signal so at the critical point they think they know what's being planned. Which could cause paranoia in the first manager if the signal seemed too easy to steal, leading to suspicion of a setup. Which the second manager would know, so...



* ''WebComic/{{Precocious}}'':[[http://www.precociouscomic.com/archive/comic/2009/04/21 Autumn's plan]].

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* ''WebComic/{{Precocious}}'':[[http://www.''WebComic/{{Precocious}}'': [[http://www.precociouscomic.com/archive/comic/2009/04/21 Autumn's plan]].



* Studies of animal intelligence sometimes use this trope as an analogy to model a species' cleverness in social interaction. Humans are the only species known to be able to do five levels of I/you know/think, while other great apes seem able to manage four (e.g. they can bluff and ''be subtle about it'' so the other ape won't catch wise). Or maybe the apes are [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation far better at it]] than humans.

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* Studies of animal intelligence sometimes use this trope as an analogy to model a species' cleverness in social interaction. Humans are the only species known to be able to do five levels of I/you know/think, while other great apes seem able to manage four (e.g. they can bluff and ''be subtle about it'' so the other ape won't catch wise). Or maybe the apes are [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation far better at it]] than humans.
30th Oct '16 11:36:57 AM dotchan
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* Really, ''any'' competitive game is like this. Playing to Win has [[http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-yomi-spies-of-the-mind.html an excellent summary of it]].

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* Really, ''any'' competitive game is like this. Playing to Win has [[http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-yomi-spies-of-the-mind.html net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind?rq=spies%20of%20the%20mind an excellent summary of it]].
11th Oct '16 9:02:24 AM dotchan
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Added DiffLines:

** There's also the game of chicken played between baserunners, the pitcher, and the catcher. The defense knows that the offense will try to steal bases, and will maintain utmost vigilance to prevent such. The offense knows the defense knows, and will try to bluff the defense, or sacrifice one of the base runners so that the other can advance. The defense knows the offense knows the defense knows...
11th Oct '16 8:33:49 AM dotchan
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* In baseball, when one team manages to figure out the second team's signals they'll usually try to only act on that knowledge at a critical point in the game. The second manager might intentionally allow them to try and steal the signal so at the critical point they think they know what's being planned. Which could cause paranoia in the first manager if the signal seemed too easy to steal, leading to suspicion of a setup. Which the second manager would know, so...

to:

* In baseball, baseball:
**
when one team manages to figure out the second team's signals they'll usually try to only act on that knowledge at a critical point in the game. The second manager might intentionally allow them to try and steal the signal so at the critical point they think they know what's being planned. Which could cause paranoia in the first manager if the signal seemed too easy to steal, leading to suspicion of a setup. Which the second manager would know, so...


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** The extensive, ever-evolving {{Metagame}} between a pitcher and a hitter can get a little ridiculous, resulting in both trying to goad the other into a mistake, but all a non-savvy audience sees is two men staring at each other, fidgeting, and adjusting their jock straps for minutes on end.
11th Oct '16 8:30:50 AM dotchan
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''Film/{{Hero}}'', one version of the duel between Nameless and Sky is a BattleInTheCenterOfTheMind where they each mentally pitch their own set of skills against their opponents', each anticipating the other perfectly.
23rd Sep '16 1:46:19 PM DaibhidC
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* The Kursaal Flyers' aptly-named "Little does She Know" gleefully parodies this.
-->Little does she know that I know that she knows\\
That I know she's two-timin' me\\
23rd Sep '16 1:44:20 PM DaibhidC
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* ''ComicBook/ElseworldsFinestSupergirlAndBatgirl'': In the last scene ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'' implies she figured out ''Comicbook/{{Batgirl}}'''s SecretIdentity, and she knows Batgirl deduced hers. And Batgirl knows Supergirl knows this.

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* ''ComicBook/ElseworldsFinestSupergirlAndBatgirl'': In the last scene ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'' Comicbook/{{Supergirl}} implies she figured out ''Comicbook/{{Batgirl}}'''s Comicbook/{{Batgirl}}'s SecretIdentity, and she knows Batgirl deduced hers. And Batgirl knows Supergirl knows this.


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* Played with in ''Comicbook/{{Asterix}} and the Soothsayer'' - Prolix the Soothsayer is a fake and knows nothing. When he gets arrested by the Romans because soothsaying is illegal, he correctly predicts how a dice would fall, and hastily protests that if he'd ''known'' that he wouldn't have said it. As the question of whether he's really a soothsayer becomes more and more complicated (because the centurion wants to believe the predictions about himself becoming Emperor, while insisting to his optio (adjunct) that it's okay to work with him because he's a fake), increasingly convoluted versions of this logic are applied to every prediction he makes, whether it's accurate or not. (At one point, the optio tries the dice test again, and he gets it wrong, prompting the centurion to tell Prolix not to get too clever, or even the optio might suspect something.)
13th Sep '16 3:05:36 AM Tron80
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* ''ComicBook/ElseworldsFinestSupergirlAndBatgirl'':
In the last scene ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'' implies she figured out ''Comicbook/{{Batgirl}}'''s SecretIdentity, and she knows Batgirl deduced hers. And Batgirl knows Supergirl knows this.

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* ''ComicBook/ElseworldsFinestSupergirlAndBatgirl'':
''ComicBook/ElseworldsFinestSupergirlAndBatgirl'': In the last scene ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'' implies she figured out ''Comicbook/{{Batgirl}}'''s SecretIdentity, and she knows Batgirl deduced hers. And Batgirl knows Supergirl knows this.
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