History Main / GrandfatherParadox

19th Aug '17 9:39:32 PM TitaniumDragon
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* The first space shuttle orbiter, the Enterprise, was named after the USS Enterprise from StarTrek. In StarTrekTheMotionPicture, it is revealed that the USS Enterprise was named after the first space shuttle orbiter.
8th Jun '17 8:17:13 AM TMNTFanGirl
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* In the final episode of ''WesternAnimation/SamuraiJack'', Jack finally manages to travel back to his own time and kill Aku. Unfortunately, [[spoiler:since his love interest Ashi was Aku's daughter, she disappears. Cruelly, [[DelayedRippleEffect she seems perfectly fine until their wedding day]], when she suddenly collapses, realizes Aku would have never fathered her, then vanishes in Jack's arms.]]
* ''WesternAnimation/WonderWarthog'' employs this with one case of glaring inconsistency. He is hanging out in a bar with Stoneage Warthog and The Hog from the Future (I may have the names wrong), and the latter decides to explore the nature of a paradox by shooting the former with a zapgun. Since Stone-age Warthog was the direct ancestor of the others, they cease to exist, while the city is retroactively turned into a crime-ridden cesspool because WW wasn't around to do anything. The Hogs are then immediately returned (since Future Hog couldn't have killed Stoneage Hog if he didn't exist) and everything is fine... except the city is ''still'' a hellhole, necessitating the heroes to fix it the traditional way.

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* In the final episode of ''WesternAnimation/SamuraiJack'', Jack finally manages to travel back to his own time and kill Aku. Unfortunately, [[spoiler:since his love interest Ashi interest, Ashi, was Aku's daughter, she disappears.ends up ceasing to exist. Cruelly, [[DelayedRippleEffect she seems perfectly fine until their wedding day]], when she suddenly collapses, realizes Aku would have never fathered her, then vanishes in Jack's arms.]]
* ''WesternAnimation/WonderWarthog'' employs this with one case of glaring inconsistency. He is hanging out in a bar with Stoneage Warthog and The Hog from the Future (I may have the names wrong), and the latter decides to explore the nature of a paradox by shooting the former with a zapgun. Since Stone-age Warthog was the direct ancestor of the others, they cease to exist, while the city is retroactively turned into a crime-ridden cesspool because WW wasn't around to do anything. The Hogs are then immediately returned (since Future Hog couldn't have killed Stoneage Hog if he didn't exist) and everything is fine... except the city is ''still'' a hellhole, necessitating the heroes to fix it the traditional way.way.
* Jude Lazowski misintrepets this in ''WesternAnimation/{{Sixteen}}''--in an episode where Jonesy accidentally breaks up an elderly couple that's been married for fifty years, Jude explains to the gang that his own grandparents got married fifty years previously, but that he never met them, "on account of the fact that they were political rebels who went into hiding." When Wyatt points out that, assuming that Jude's grandparents are still alive, they're probably around the same age as the Bickersons (the elderly couple that Jonesy accidentally split apart)--this leads Jude to believe that the Bickersons are his grandparent, and that if they break up now (in the current timeline), he'll cease to exist.
21st May '17 8:26:50 AM ultimomant
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* In the final episode of ''WesternAnimation/SamuraiJack'', Jack finally manages to travel back to his own time and kill Aku. Unfortunately, [[spoiler:since his love interest Ashi was Aku's daughter, she disappears. Cruelly, [[DelayedRippleEffect she seems perfectly fine until their wedding day]], when she suddenly collapses, realizes Aku would have never fathered her, then vanishes in Jack's arms.]]
22nd Apr '17 5:11:03 PM intastiel
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* In ''TabletopGame/MageTheAwakening'', joining the highest ranks of the [[DoomsdayCult Cult of the Doomsday Clock]] requires that a mage reach through time and kill their past self, making their existence a Paradox and allegedly freeing themselves from the shackles of time. [[spoiler:Subverted in that this actually allows an abyssal monster to devour the mage's existence and take their place in the world.]]

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* In ''TabletopGame/MageTheAwakening'', joining the highest ranks of the [[DoomsdayCult [[ApocalypseCult Cult of the Doomsday Clock]] requires that a mage reach through time and kill their past self, making their existence a Paradox and allegedly freeing themselves from the shackles of time. [[spoiler:Subverted in that this actually allows an abyssal monster to devour the mage's existence and take their place in the world.]]
22nd Apr '17 5:10:36 PM intastiel
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* In ''TabletopGame/MageTheAwakening'', joining the highest ranks of the [[DoomsdayCult Cult of the Doomsday Clock]] requires that a mage reach through time and kill their past self, making their existence a Paradox and allegedly freeing themselves from the shackles of time. [[spoiler:Subverted in that this actually allows an abyssal monster to devour the mage's existence and take their place in the world.]]
12th Apr '17 9:21:54 AM Nyame
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* ''Manga/FairyTail'': The original Eclipse Project would have caused one of these. [[spoiler:The goal of the project was to use the gate to go back 400 years into the past and kill Zeref before he became the Black Wizard. Chapter 436, which is an entire chapter on Zeref's past, reveals that Zeref was the one who ''created'' the Eclipse Gate. Killing him would cause the gate to never exist -- which would render the need for the Eclipse Project nil, allowing Zeref to survive, and so on and so forth. Time would be stuck in an endless loop. This is (presumably) also the same reason why Zeref never used the gate for its original purpose: to save his little brother Natsu from his premature death. Had he done so, he would have had no reason to create the gate, which would causes Natsu to die again, etc. Notably, the only known instances where the gate was used and ''didn't'' backfire and cause some temporal problems is when characters used it to send others to the ''future'' and not the past]].

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* ''Manga/FairyTail'': ''Manga/FairyTail'':
**
The original Eclipse Project would have caused one of these. [[spoiler:The goal of the project was to use the gate to go back 400 years into the past and kill Zeref before he became the Black Wizard. Chapter 436, which is an entire chapter on Zeref's past, reveals that Zeref was the one who ''created'' the Eclipse Gate. Killing him would cause the gate to never exist -- which would render the need for the Eclipse Project nil, allowing Zeref to survive, and so on and so forth. Time would be stuck in an endless loop. This is (presumably) also the same reason why Zeref never used the gate for its original purpose: to save his little brother Natsu from his premature death. Had he done so, he would have had no reason to create the gate, which would causes Natsu to die again, etc. Notably, the only known instances where the gate was used and ''didn't'' backfire and cause some temporal problems is when characters used it to send others to the ''future'' and not the past]].past]].
** [[spoiler:The Alvarez Empire arc reveals that Zeref's goal is to use Neo Eclipse to subvert the paradox problem. Rather than being stuck in an endless loop, Zeref intends to create an entirely new timeline to take the place of the current one. His chosen point is the time before he became immortal, so that way he can prevent all the tragedies that befell him and his brother. While that would ensure that the events of the manga would never happen, there is no guarantee that any of the characters in the current timeline would be born and/or suffer even more tragedy -- for all anyone knows, Zeref could just be hastening the apocalypse. Unfortunately, Zeref has gone so far beyond the DespairEventHorizon that he simply doesn't care about any of that, as he has already come to reject the current world in favor of his new one]].
28th Mar '17 1:26:10 PM intastiel
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* Discussed in Creator/OctaviaButler's novel ''Kindred'' when Dana finds herself pulled back in time to [[UsefulNotes/AntebellumAmerica the antebellum South]] whenever her ancestor Rufus is in mortal danger. As he comes to treat her more and more like one of the plantation slaves, only the threat of a paradox keeps her protecting his life. [[spoiler:Once Rufus has a child, that protection expires.]]
22nd Mar '17 3:08:42 AM LondonKdS
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* The happy ending for Special Constable Tom Campbell in the ''Series/DoctorWho'' spin-off film ''Film/DaleksInvasionEarth2150AD'' has him returning in ''Tardis'' to a point a few minutes before his departure from 1960s Earth, and arresting the burglars who attacked him and caused him to stumble concussed into ''Tardis'' in the first place. There is no acknowledgement of the major paradox problems this would cause, such as there being two different Toms wandering around.
12th Mar '17 10:33:30 PM AthenaBlue
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* [[Creator/IDWPublishing IDW]]'s ''ComicBook/BackToTheFuture'' establishes 1985-A (the hellish 1985 from ''Film/BackToTheFuturePartII'') as an impending grandfather paradox, as Doc Brown finds out that his alternate universe double [[spoiler:has been lobotomized]]. If Doc Brown never builds the time machine, then Old Biff can't give the almanac to his 1955 self; and if he doesn't give the almanac to himself, then 1985-A can't happen...



* [[Creator/IDWPublishing IDW]]'s ''ComicBook/BackToTheFuture'' establishes 1985-A (the hellish 1985 from ''Film/BackToTheFuturePartII'') as an impending grandfather paradox, as Doc Brown finds out that his alternate universe double [[spoiler:has been lobotomized]]. If Doc Brown never builds the time machine, then Old Biff can't give the almanac to his 1955 self; and if he doesn't give the almanac to himself, then 1985-A can't happen...



* Played with in ''Film/EnterNowhere'', in which a young woman about to rob a convenience store finds herself transported to an isolated cabin where two strangers are similarly stranded, and where a mysterious rifleman is creeping around in the woods. [[spoiler: The rifleman ''is'' her grandfather, who'd died in WWII without ever seeing his baby daughter, and the others are the still-pregnant mother she never knew and the son she won't live to see grow up. Inverted in that the grandfather actually kills ''her'' and causes her son to disappear in the process, leaving it up to her mom-to-be to save her own dad and thus, all four lives. Played straight in that it's implied the three were sent back in time to avert the grandfather's death because the convenience-store clerk has supernatural power and wanted to give them all another chance ... one meaning that, since her Mom survived to stop her from becoming a criminal, the robber wouldn't have confronted the clerk in the first place.]]



* Discussed and ultimately averted in ''Film/TerminatorGenisys''. [[spoiler:Sarah Connor tells the T-3000 (her son John Connor) that he can't kill either her or Kyle Reese because they're his parents and that would negate his existence. John retorts that since all three of them are outside their natural timelines, there truly is "no fate" and he can thus kill them without erasing himself.]]



* Discussed and ultimately averted in ''Film/TerminatorGenisys''. [[spoiler:Sarah Connor tells the T-3000 (her son John Connor) that he can't kill either her or Kyle Reese because they're his parents and that would negate his existence. John retorts that since all three of them are outside their natural timelines, there truly is "no fate" and he can thus kill them without erasing himself.]]
* Played with in ''Film/EnterNowhere'', in which a young woman about to rob a convenience store finds herself transported to an isolated cabin where two strangers are similarly stranded, and where a mysterious rifleman is creeping around in the woods. [[spoiler: The rifleman ''is'' her grandfather, who'd died in WWII without ever seeing his baby daughter, and the others are the still-pregnant mother she never knew and the son she won't live to see grow up. Inverted in that the grandfather actually kills ''her'' and causes her son to disappear in the process, leaving it up to her mom-to-be to save her own dad and thus, all four lives. Played straight in that it's implied the three were sent back in time to avert the grandfather's death because the convenience-store clerk has supernatural power and wanted to give them all another chance ... one meaning that, since her Mom survived to stop her from becoming a criminal, the robber wouldn't have confronted the clerk in the first place.]]



* The ''Series/TwelveMonkeys'' episode "Lullaby" has Cassie create a paradox by going back in time and killing Jones immediately after the death of her daughter, before she could start trying to invent time travel. The result is a GroundhogDayLoop until Cassie (and Cole, who comes back to help) can figure out what needs to happen to preserve the timeline.
* Referenced in ''Series/{{Continuum}}'', when terrorists [=Liber8=] attempt to eliminate their adversary Kiera Cameron- both displaced to 2012 from 2077- by killing her grandmother before she can give birth; Kiera attempts to counter this by threatening the pregnant mother of [=Liber8=]'s founder. [[spoiler:The paradox is apparently proven irrelevant when the grandmother of [=Liber8=] renegade Matthew Kellog is killed before she has children and nothing happens to him, but Kiera's ally Alec Sadler notes that lack of evidence is not proof that nothing will happen.]]



** Martha Jones brings this up at the start of her first trip in the TARDIS.

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** [[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E2TheShakespeareCode "The Shakespeare Code"]]: Martha Jones brings this up at the start of her first trip in the TARDIS.



** In "Last of the Time Lords", The Master constructs a Paradox Machine specifically to evade the consequences of this paradox, [[spoiler:as his army of homicidal laser balls happen to be the descendants of humans, from the end of the universe.]]
* Parodied in ''Series/TheXFiles'' in "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose": the title character cites this as a reason why he shouldn't help Mulder and Scully catch a serial killer -- because one of the people he might save could be the grandmother of the person who'd invent a time machine that would mean Clyde's father never met his mother and therefore he'd never have been born. As his ability to see the future had made his life a misery, Clyde suddenly realizes that wouldn't be a bad thing after all.
* Referenced in ''Series/{{Continuum}}'', when terrorists [=Liber8=] attempt to eliminate their adversary Kiera Cameron- both displaced to 2012 from 2077- by killing her grandmother before she can give birth; Kiera attempts to counter this by threatening the pregnant mother of [=Liber8=]'s founder. [[spoiler:The paradox is apparently proven irrelevant when the grandmother of [=Liber8=] renegade Matthew Kellog is killed before she has children and nothing happens to him, but Kiera's ally Alec Sadler notes that lack of evidence is not proof that nothing will happen.]]
* Inverted in ''Series/{{Haven}}'', where after traveling back in time Duke accidentally ''saves'' his grandfather (who had already had a son). When Duke learns who he is, the issue becomes whether he needs to make sure he dies or let him continue living. [[spoiler: Turns out it's neither. Duke is a part of a StableTimeLoop in which Sarah Vernon ends up killing Roy Crocker, because he found out from Duke that she was going to kill him, so he went after her first.]]

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** In [[Recap/DoctorWhoS29E13LastOfTheTimeLords "Last of the Time Lords", The Lords"]], the Master constructs a Paradox Machine specifically to evade the consequences of this paradox, [[spoiler:as his army of homicidal laser balls happen to be the descendants of humans, from the end of the universe.]]
* Parodied in ''Series/TheXFiles'' in "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose": the title character cites this as a reason why he shouldn't help Mulder and Scully catch a serial killer -- because one of the people he might save could be the grandmother of the person who'd invent a time machine that would mean Clyde's father never met his mother and therefore he'd never have been born. As his ability to see the future had made his life a misery, Clyde suddenly realizes that wouldn't be a bad thing after all.
* Referenced in ''Series/{{Continuum}}'', when terrorists [=Liber8=] attempt to eliminate their adversary Kiera Cameron- both displaced to 2012 from 2077- by killing her grandmother before she can give birth; Kiera attempts to counter this by threatening the pregnant mother of [=Liber8=]'s founder. [[spoiler:The paradox is apparently proven irrelevant when the grandmother of [=Liber8=] renegade Matthew Kellog is killed before she has children and nothing happens to him, but Kiera's ally Alec Sadler notes that lack of evidence is not proof that nothing will happen.]]
* Inverted in ''Series/{{Haven}}'', where after traveling back in time Duke accidentally ''saves'' his grandfather (who had already had a son). When Duke learns who he is, the issue becomes whether he needs to make sure he dies or let him continue living. [[spoiler: Turns out it's neither. Duke is a part of a StableTimeLoop in which Sarah Vernon ends up killing Roy Crocker, because he found out from Duke that she was going to kill him, so he went after her first.
]]



* Inverted in ''Series/{{Haven}}'', where after traveling back in time Duke accidentally ''saves'' his grandfather (who had already had a son). When Duke learns who he is, the issue becomes whether he needs to make sure he dies or let him continue living. [[spoiler: Turns out it's neither. Duke is a part of a StableTimeLoop in which Sarah Vernon ends up killing Roy Crocker, because he found out from Duke that she was going to kill him, so he went after her first.]]
* Subverted on ''Series/{{Timeless}}'' when the pilot episode ends with historian Lucy returning from altering the fate of the ''Hindenburg'' (it crashed a day later with only two people killed) to find that her sister, Amy, no longer exists. A computer search reveals that Lucy's father, Henry, married the granddaughter of someone who was supposed to die on the ''Hindenburg'' and never met Lucy's mother, Carol. Lucy is at first confused how she can exist if her parents never met...then realizes it means Henry was ''never'' her father in either timeline.



* The ''Series/TwelveMonkeys'' episode "Lullaby" has Cassie create a paradox by going back in time and killing Jones immediately after the death of her daughter, before she could start trying to invent time travel. The result is a GroundhogDayLoop until Cassie (and Cole, who comes back to help) can figure out what needs to happen to preserve the timeline.
* Subverted on ''Series/{{Timeless}}'' when the pilot episode ends with historian Lucy returning from altering the fate of the ''Hindenburgh'' (it crashed a day later with only two people killed) to find that her sister, Amy, no longer exists. A computer search reveals that Lucy's father, Henry, married the granddaughter of someone who was supposed to die on the ''Hindenburgh'' and never met Lucy's mother, Carol. Lucy is at first confused how she can exist if her parents never met...then realizes it means Henry was ''never'' her father in either timeline.

to:

* The ''Series/TwelveMonkeys'' episode "Lullaby" has Cassie create a paradox by going back Parodied in time ''Series/TheXFiles'' in "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose": the title character cites this as a reason why he shouldn't help Mulder and killing Jones immediately after Scully catch a serial killer -- because one of the death of her daughter, before she people he might save could start trying to be the grandmother of the person who'd invent a time travel. The result is a GroundhogDayLoop until Cassie (and Cole, who comes back to help) can figure out what needs to happen to preserve the timeline.
* Subverted on ''Series/{{Timeless}}'' when the pilot episode ends with historian Lucy returning from altering the fate of the ''Hindenburgh'' (it crashed a day later with only two people killed) to find
machine that her sister, Amy, no longer exists. A computer search reveals that Lucy's father, Henry, married the granddaughter of someone who was supposed to die on the ''Hindenburgh'' and would mean Clyde's father never met Lucy's mother, Carol. Lucy is at first confused how she can exist if her parents his mother and therefore he'd never met...then have been born. As his ability to see the future had made his life a misery, Clyde suddenly realizes it means Henry was ''never'' her father in either timeline. that wouldn't be a bad thing after all.



* In an episode of ''WesternAnimation/{{Futurama}}'', Fry goes back to Roswell in 1947 and accidentally gets his grandfather killed in an atomic blast [[DefiedTrope while trying to avert this]]. He doesn't stop existing because he ''also'' ends up doing his grandmother, becoming [[MyOwnGrampa his own grandfather]]. Or, as he puts it, "I did do the nasty in the pasty." [[spoiler:This becomes a key plot point in later episodes, as the extreme inbreeding causes him to have a birth defect that makes him immune to a number of things.]] This also means that, instead of merely being Professor Farnsworth's lateral ancestor (who is descended from Fry's brother), he is also the Professor's direct ancestor.



* ''WesternAnimation/WonderWarthog'' employs this with one case of glaring inconsistency. He is hanging out in a bar with Stoneage Warthog and The Hog from the Future (I may have the names wrong), and the latter decides to explore the nature of a paradox by shooting the former with a zapgun. Since Stone-age Warthog was the direct ancestor of the others, they cease to exist, while the city is retroactively turned into a crime-ridden cesspool because WW wasn't around to do anything. The Hogs are then immediately returned (since Future Hog couldn't have killed Stoneage Hog if he didn't exist) and everything is fine... except the city is ''still'' a hellhole, necessitating the heroes to fix it the traditional way.
* Lampshaded in an episode of ''WesternAnimation/InvaderZIM'', where Zim tries to kill Dib using a time machine. The resulting LogicBomb causes GIR's head to explode. This also prevents him from actually succeeding in killing Dib, since when he does successfully cause Dib to flatline, his father Professor Membrane just brings him back to life with a robot mecha suit, and no matter what point of time Zim tries to exploit, it only results in said mecha getting more and more upgrades.


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* In an episode of ''WesternAnimation/{{Futurama}}'', Fry goes back to Roswell in 1947 and accidentally gets his grandfather killed in an atomic blast [[DefiedTrope while trying to avert this]]. He doesn't stop existing because he ''also'' ends up doing his grandmother, becoming [[MyOwnGrampa his own grandfather]]. Or, as he puts it, "I did do the nasty in the pasty." [[spoiler:This becomes a key plot point in later episodes, as the extreme inbreeding causes him to have a birth defect that makes him immune to a number of things.]] This also means that, instead of merely being Professor Farnsworth's lateral ancestor (who is descended from Fry's brother), he is also the Professor's direct ancestor.
* Lampshaded in an episode of ''WesternAnimation/InvaderZIM'', where Zim tries to kill Dib using a time machine. The resulting LogicBomb causes GIR's head to explode. This also prevents him from actually succeeding in killing Dib, since when he does successfully cause Dib to flatline, his father Professor Membrane just brings him back to life with a robot mecha suit, and no matter what point of time Zim tries to exploit, it only results in said mecha getting more and more upgrades.
* ''WesternAnimation/WonderWarthog'' employs this with one case of glaring inconsistency. He is hanging out in a bar with Stoneage Warthog and The Hog from the Future (I may have the names wrong), and the latter decides to explore the nature of a paradox by shooting the former with a zapgun. Since Stone-age Warthog was the direct ancestor of the others, they cease to exist, while the city is retroactively turned into a crime-ridden cesspool because WW wasn't around to do anything. The Hogs are then immediately returned (since Future Hog couldn't have killed Stoneage Hog if he didn't exist) and everything is fine... except the city is ''still'' a hellhole, necessitating the heroes to fix it the traditional way.


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9th Feb '17 2:30:24 PM Nyame
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* ''Manga/FairyTail'': The original Eclipse Project would have caused one of these. [[spoiler:The goal of the project was to use the gate to go back 400 years into the past and kill Zeref before he became the Black Wizard. Chapter 436, which is an entire chapter on Zeref's past, reveals that Zeref was the one who ''created'' the Eclipse Gate. Killing him would cause the gate to never exist -- which would the need for the Eclipse Project nil, allowing Zeref to survive, and so on and so forth. Time would be stuck in an endless loop. This is (presumably) also the same reason why Zeref never used the gate for its original purpose: to save his little brother Natsu from his premature death. Had he done so, he would have had no reason to create the gate, which would causes Natsu to die again, etc. Notably, the only known instances where the gate was used and ''didn't'' backfire and cause some temporal problems is when characters used it to send others to the ''future'' and not the past]].

to:

* ''Manga/FairyTail'': The original Eclipse Project would have caused one of these. [[spoiler:The goal of the project was to use the gate to go back 400 years into the past and kill Zeref before he became the Black Wizard. Chapter 436, which is an entire chapter on Zeref's past, reveals that Zeref was the one who ''created'' the Eclipse Gate. Killing him would cause the gate to never exist -- which would render the need for the Eclipse Project nil, allowing Zeref to survive, and so on and so forth. Time would be stuck in an endless loop. This is (presumably) also the same reason why Zeref never used the gate for its original purpose: to save his little brother Natsu from his premature death. Had he done so, he would have had no reason to create the gate, which would causes Natsu to die again, etc. Notably, the only known instances where the gate was used and ''didn't'' backfire and cause some temporal problems is when characters used it to send others to the ''future'' and not the past]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.GrandfatherParadox