History Main / FascistButInefficient

25th Jan '16 9:58:54 PM Arachnos
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** The main wizarding prison is located at [[TheAlcatraz Azkaban]], which is staffed by Dementors, evil creatures which suck the joy out of people. A place which by all accounts is AFateWorseThanDeath. There are apparently no other Wizarding prisons, so you get sent there [[AllCrimesAreEqual whether you were convicted of murder or insurance fraud.]] It doesn't seem to bother any of the authorities that such an extreme punishment is guaranteed to turn anyone sentenced there either insane or evil (usually both) within a few weeks, not to mention driving criminals to ''extreme'' methods to avoid imprisonment; knowing this was in store for them, no wizard would ever surrender to the authorities. Additionally, since Dementors are AlwaysChaoticEvil, Dumbledre repeatedly warns the Ministry of the folly of using them as wardens, as Voldemort could make them all defect without a second thought simply by providing them with more opportunities to fill their bellies with despair - simultaneously adding a legion of dark creatures to his followers and effortlessly releasing all the Death Eaters imprisoned in Azkaban. All this would be bad enough if everyone sentenced to Azkaban was actually guilty, but... Well, see below.
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** The main wizarding prison is located at [[TheAlcatraz Azkaban]], which is staffed by Dementors, evil creatures which suck the joy out of people. A place which by all accounts is AFateWorseThanDeath. There are apparently no other Wizarding prisons, so you get sent there [[AllCrimesAreEqual whether you were convicted of murder or insurance fraud.]] It doesn't seem to bother any of the authorities that such an extreme punishment is guaranteed to turn anyone sentenced there either insane or evil (usually both) within a few weeks, not to mention driving criminals to ''extreme'' methods to avoid imprisonment; knowing this was in store for them, no wizard would ever surrender to the authorities. Additionally, since Dementors are AlwaysChaoticEvil, Dumbledre repeatedly warns the Ministry of the folly of using them as wardens, as Voldemort could make them all defect without a second thought simply by providing them with more opportunities to fill their bellies with despair - simultaneously adding a legion of dark creatures to his followers and effortlessly releasing all the Death Eaters imprisoned in Azkaban. All this would be bad enough if everyone sentenced to Azkaban was actually guilty, but... Well, see below.
25th Jan '16 9:58:23 PM Arachnos
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** The main wizarding prison is located at [[TheAlcatraz Azkaban]], which is staffed by Dementors, evil creatures which suck the joy out of people. A place which by all accounts is AFateWorseThanDeath. There are apparently no other Wizarding prisons, so you get sent there [[AllCrimesAreEqual whether you were convicted of murder or insurance fraud.]] It doesn't seem to bother any of the authorities that such an extreme punishment is guaranteed to turn anyone sentenced there either insane or evil (usually both) within a few weeks, not to mention driving criminals to ''extreme'' methods to avoid imprisonment; knowing this was in store for them, no wizard would ever surrender to the authorities. And this would be bad enough if everyone sentenced to Azkaban was actually guilty, but... Well, see below.
to:
** The main wizarding prison is located at [[TheAlcatraz Azkaban]], which is staffed by Dementors, evil creatures which suck the joy out of people. A place which by all accounts is AFateWorseThanDeath. There are apparently no other Wizarding prisons, so you get sent there [[AllCrimesAreEqual whether you were convicted of murder or insurance fraud.]] It doesn't seem to bother any of the authorities that such an extreme punishment is guaranteed to turn anyone sentenced there either insane or evil (usually both) within a few weeks, not to mention driving criminals to ''extreme'' methods to avoid imprisonment; knowing this was in store for them, no wizard would ever surrender to the authorities. And Additionally, since Dementors are AlwaysChaoticEvil, Dumbledre repeatedly warns the Ministry of the folly of using them as wardens, as Voldemort could make them all defect without a second thought simply by providing them with more opportunities to fill their bellies with despair - simultaneously adding a legion of dark creatures to his followers and effortlessly releasing all the Death Eaters imprisoned in Azkaban. All this would be bad enough if everyone sentenced to Azkaban was actually guilty, but... Well, see below.
25th Jan '16 8:30:06 PM G02
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Added DiffLines:
** The Brotherhood Of Steel are falling into this over time. Hoarding technology, killing mutants and banning outsiders from their ranks worked when civilization was just a few scattered towns, but it's become troublesome in the recent games. The West Coast chapter featured in ''New Vegas'' has been reduced from a vast army to one bunker in the Mojave desert after tangling with House, the NCR, the Legion and a ton of smaller tribes. Zigzagged by the East Coast chapter; they became a lot more egalitarian and made leaps and bounds in tech, but retained those advancements after they were brought back into the fold.
16th Dec '15 2:24:09 AM M84
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* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' has His Divine Majesty's Imperium of Mankind, probably the most {{exaggerated|Trope}} in fiction. It's deliberately the most oppressive {{crapsack|World}} government imaginable, but all the different factions that run it ([[ObstructiveBureaucrat Administratum]], [[ChurchMilitant Ecclesiarchy]], [[MachineWorship Mechanicus]], [[RedshirtArmy Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy]], [[SuperSoldier Astartes]], [[StateSec Inquisition]], and [[PoliceBrutality Arbites]]) distrust each other at best, regularly hoard information and resources, will often refuse to help another faction unless it can benefit them, and on occasion will outright go to war with each other; more than one Imperial endeavor has been dismantled solely because of infighting. And that's before considering all the sub-factions (and ''sub''-sub-factions) ''and'' all the local departments that run individual planets/systems. Turns out that this is ''better'' than the alternative, as any time someone gains control of multiple departments at once they soon turn the Imperium's brutally up even further (Horus in the Horus Heresy and Goge Vandire in the Age of Apostasy).
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* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' has His Divine Majesty's Imperium of Mankind, probably the most {{exaggerated|Trope}} in fiction. It's deliberately the most oppressive {{crapsack|World}} government imaginable, but all the different factions that run it ([[ObstructiveBureaucrat Administratum]], [[ChurchMilitant Ecclesiarchy]], [[MachineWorship Mechanicus]], [[RedshirtArmy Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy]], [[SuperSoldier Astartes]], [[StateSec Inquisition]], and [[PoliceBrutality Arbites]]) distrust each other at best, regularly hoard information and resources, will often refuse to help another faction unless it can benefit them, and on occasion will outright go to war with each other; more than one Imperial endeavor has been dismantled solely because of infighting. And that's before considering all the sub-factions (and ''sub''-sub-factions) ''and'' all the local departments that run individual planets/systems. Turns out that this is ''better'' than the alternative, as any time someone gains control of multiple departments at once they soon turn the Imperium's brutally up even further (Horus in the Horus Heresy and Goge Vandire in the Age of Apostasy). It doesn't help that the only one who could feasibly remove the "Inefficient" part is the Emperor of Mankind, and he's a barely alive husk trapped in failing life support.
8th Dec '15 9:26:36 PM Fireblood
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* In the ''Literature/HeraldsOfValdemar'' series, King Ancar of Hardorn basically treated his entire country as a machine to build and supply armies that he could use to conquer his neighbors. Which might have been a workable economic model, if only he'd been ''able'' to conquer any of his neighbors. By the time he was assassinated (For trying to conquer Valdemar - for the third time), he had looted his own country of so many people and resources that some places didn't have enough able-bodied people left behind to keep enough farms running to feed ''themselves'', much less supply the armies.
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* In the ''Literature/HeraldsOfValdemar'' series, King Ancar of Hardorn basically treated his entire country as a machine to build and supply armies that he could use to conquer his neighbors. Which might have been a workable economic model, if only he'd been ''able'' to conquer any of his neighbors. By the time he was assassinated (For (for trying to conquer Valdemar - for the third time), he had looted his own country of so many people and resources that some places didn't have enough able-bodied people left behind to keep enough farms running to feed ''themselves'', much less supply the armies.

* Specifically invoked in an episode of ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries''; John Gill, a noted historian, is sent by TheFederation to observe a primitive planet, only to break the [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]] and set up a Nazi-like government on the planet to tame it. He directly states that he wanted to use the efficiency of the Nazis to bring order to the world without bringing the malice associated with it in as well, and for a while it actually worked. However, it wasn't efficient enough to stop his [[TheStarscream second in command]] from drugging him and seizing power, leaving him as a comatose figurehead as his new government fell back into the atrocities of Nazi Germany. * The Alliance in ''Series/{{Firefly}}'' tries to be totalitarian, but doesn't have the resource to prevent the outer worlds from degenerating into societies ruled by the nastiest thug with the most guns and {{mooks}}. Although from what we see the ''inner'' worlds appear to be held on a much tighter leash; the entire setting is partly an allegory of America in the 19th century, where the east part of the country was 'civilized' (i.e. held together by the rule of law) but the west was wild and untamed, and remained so for a fairly long period. It's also the case that the Core Worlds are ''more'' corrupt than the nastiest of the frontier worlds, where are least you can see who's got their boot on your throat and why. This also matches a large swath of 19th century America, where sophisticated Eastern cities were often also corruptly ruled by wealthy criminals while western towns with corrupt rule by criminals were at least rather open about it. * In the ''Series/DoctorWho'' story ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS25E2TheHappinessPatrol The Happiness Patrol]]'', the oppressive society of Terra Alpha (where everyone is forced to be happy) is clearly falling apart even before the Doctor arrives to take the oppressive society down, but he acts as the necessary impetus to finally push it over the edge into chaos and open rebellion. One particularly beautiful example, however; a militia is set up to 'disappear' a group of protesters deliberately acting sad in protest over the laws, only to find when they get there that the Doctor has persuaded them to act happy, meaning that they are now obeying the law and can't be arrested or killed. And to add insult to injury, the first wave is so confused, glum and indecisive about what to do that when a second wave turns up to help, they end up ignoring the protesters and arresting the first wave for breaking the same laws they'd been intending to arrest the protesters over.
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* Specifically invoked in an episode of ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries''; ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'': John Gill, a noted historian, is sent by TheFederation to observe a primitive planet, only to break the [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]] and set up a Nazi-like government on the planet to tame it. He directly states that he wanted to use the efficiency of the Nazis to bring order to the world without bringing the malice associated with it in as well, and for a while it actually worked. However, it wasn't efficient enough to stop his [[TheStarscream second in command]] from drugging him and seizing power, leaving him as a comatose figurehead as his new government fell back into the atrocities of Nazi Germany. * The Alliance in ''Series/{{Firefly}}'' tries to be totalitarian, but doesn't have the resource resources to prevent the outer worlds from degenerating into societies ruled by the nastiest thug with the most guns and {{mooks}}. Although from what we see the ''inner'' worlds appear to be held on a much tighter leash; the entire setting is partly an allegory of America in the 19th century, where the east part of the country was 'civilized' (i.e. held together by the rule of law) but the west was wild and untamed, and remained so for a fairly long period. It's also the case that the Core Worlds are ''more'' corrupt than the nastiest of the frontier worlds, where are least you can see who's got their boot on your throat and why. This also matches a large swath of 19th century America, where sophisticated Eastern cities were often also corruptly ruled by wealthy criminals while western towns with corrupt rule by criminals were at least rather open about it. * In the ''Series/DoctorWho'' story ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS25E2TheHappinessPatrol The Happiness Patrol]]'', the oppressive society of Terra Alpha (where ([[HappinessIsMandatory where everyone is forced to be happy) happy]]) is clearly falling apart even before the Doctor arrives to take the oppressive society down, but he acts as the necessary impetus to finally push it over the edge into chaos and open rebellion. One particularly beautiful example, however; a militia is set up to 'disappear' a group of protesters deliberately acting sad in protest over the laws, only to find when they get there that the Doctor has persuaded them to act happy, meaning that they are now obeying the law and can't be arrested or killed. And to add insult to injury, the first wave is so confused, glum and indecisive about what to do that when a second wave turns up to help, they end up ignoring the protesters and arresting the first wave for breaking the same laws they'd been intending to arrest the protesters over.
8th Dec '15 9:21:35 PM Fireblood
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** The functioning of wizarding society is so utterly inefficient, even the ''sports'' consist largely of an implausible number of penalties, few if any of which are ever called except by snarky commentors since overzealous refs tend to get banished to the Sahara. On the other hand, the only Wizarding school in all of Britain still uses "throw the 12-year-olds in a forest with actual human-eating monsters for a night to straighten them out" as a routine form of punishment. Likewise, dueling is illegal, but taught as an extracurricular activity. The ministry might have the right to imprison lawbreakers indefinitely with no reason given, but the law is so incomprehensible, it's hard to imagine any part of society functioning even to the limited degree shown in the books. Drive home by how the sole sympathetic Ministry worker we see is so hopelessly corrupt, he'd "have to drag himself before the tribunal if he ever raided [his own] home". (Arthur Weasley-- his job is enforcing the prohibition on enchanting technological artifacts, and his passionate hobby is collecting enchanted technological artifacts. This is one of the protagonist's beloved father figures.) ** Not to mention how hindered they are by their FantasticRacism against the muggles. The Wizarding and magical governments ''are'' apparently aware of each other, but only if you count the Minister for Magic occasionally popping into the Prime Minister's office without warning to give him vague updates of the magical world. One has to imagine that if they'd maybe ''asked'' muggles for some help, things like security cameras or guns would have given them a real leg up against the Death Eaters.
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** The functioning of wizarding society is so utterly inefficient, even the ''sports'' consist largely of an implausible number of penalties, few if any of which are ever called except by snarky commentors commenters since overzealous refs tend to get banished to the Sahara. On the other hand, the only Wizarding school in all of Britain still uses "throw the 12-year-olds in a forest with actual human-eating monsters for a night to straighten them out" as a routine form of punishment. Likewise, dueling is illegal, but taught as an extracurricular activity. The ministry might have the right to imprison lawbreakers indefinitely with no reason given, but the law is so incomprehensible, it's hard to imagine any part of society functioning even to the limited degree shown in the books. Drive Driven home by how the sole sympathetic Ministry worker we see is so hopelessly corrupt, he'd "have to drag himself before the tribunal if he ever raided [his own] home". (Arthur Weasley-- his job is enforcing the prohibition on enchanting technological artifacts, and his passionate hobby is collecting enchanted technological artifacts. This is one of the protagonist's beloved father figures.) ** Not to mention how hindered they are by their FantasticRacism against the muggles. The Wizarding muggle and magical wizarding governments ''are'' apparently aware of each other, but only if you count the Minister for Magic occasionally popping into the Prime Minister's office without warning to give him vague updates of on the magical world. One has to imagine that if they'd maybe ''asked'' muggles for some help, things like security cameras or guns would have given them a real leg up against the Death Eaters. Eaters (though it's hard to say for sure, as technology tends to go haywire around magic or not work at all).

* The Final Empire in ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has elements of this; [[GodEmperor the Lord Ruler]] is concerned with the survival of humanity, but is largely detached from directly ruling it, leaving control of his government primarily to the [[CorruptChurch Obligators]] and [[AristocratsAreEvil nobility]]. ''These'' groups are more interested in backstabbing each other than they are in running a productive empire. Of course, the whole system turns out to be good for two things- perpetuating itself and terrorizing the lower classes (having an immortal PhysicalGod at its head helps) so it ''still'' takes a ridiculous amount of work to overthrow. * ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'': The chapter ''The scouring of the Shire'' shows us that Otho, and then Sharkey, with their army of men had seized power from the Shire, destroying the government, changing the Hobbit’s institutions to spy on them, and arresting those who oppose them, looting under the excuse of "fair distribution", giving a lot of stupid rules, building ugly buildings and destroying all the forest and polluting the rivers. And the army of men is nothing but bandits that are defeated relatively easily. One hobbit comments "If they want to make the Shire into a desert, they're going the right way about it." This case is justified: [[spoiler:humiliated wizard Saruman is TheManBehindTheMan and only wants to get petty revenge on the hobbits by ruining their land.]]
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* The Final Empire in ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has elements of this; [[GodEmperor the Lord Ruler]] is concerned with the survival of humanity, but is largely detached from directly ruling it, leaving control of his government primarily to the [[CorruptChurch Obligators]] and [[AristocratsAreEvil nobility]]. ''These'' groups are more interested in backstabbing each other than they are in running a productive empire. Of course, the whole system turns out to be good for two things- perpetuating things-perpetuating itself and terrorizing the lower classes (having an immortal PhysicalGod at its head helps) so it ''still'' takes a ridiculous amount of work to overthrow. * ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'': The chapter ''The scouring of the Shire'' shows us that Otho, Otho and then Sharkey, Sharkey with their army of men had seized power from over the Shire, destroying the government, changing the Hobbit’s institutions to spy on them, them and arresting those who oppose them, looting under the excuse of "fair distribution", giving a lot of stupid rules, building ugly buildings and destroying all of the forest and polluting the rivers. And the army of men is nothing but bandits that are defeated relatively easily. One hobbit comments "If they want to make the Shire into a desert, they're going the right way about it." This case is justified: [[spoiler:humiliated wizard Saruman is TheManBehindTheMan and only wants to get petty revenge on the hobbits by ruining their land.]]

* In Primo Levi's memoir of Auschwitz, ''Literature/IfThisIsAMan'', the author notes with some sardony that, for all that the camp was a highly efficient death machine, the Buna factory he was assigned to never produced a pound of synthetic rubber. That is to say, the process of creation as opposed to destruction was apparently beyond the capabilities of the camp administration.
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* In Primo Levi's memoir of Auschwitz, ''Literature/IfThisIsAMan'', the author notes with some sardony sarcasm that, for all that the camp was a highly efficient death machine, the Buna factory he was assigned to never produced a pound of synthetic rubber. That is to say, the process of creation as opposed to destruction was apparently beyond the capabilities of the camp administration.
28th Nov '15 12:34:16 PM AnotherDuck
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Generic "examples" are not allowed.
* Virtually any LawfulEvil style society in a given RPG will end up being one of these. Simply put, any truly effective state wouldn't be vulnerable to a tiny band of violent thugs so they have to have crippling weaknesses so the party can have a chance.
19th Nov '15 6:24:39 AM StFan
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* Specifically invoked in an episode of ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries''; John Gill, a noted historian, is sent by TheFederation to observe a primitive planet, only to break the [[{{Alien Non-Interference Clause}} Prime Directive]] and set up a Nazi-like government on the planet to tame it. He directly states that he wanted to use the efficiency of the Nazis to bring order to the world without bringing the malice associated with it in as well, and for a while it actually worked. However, it wasn't efficient enough to stop his [[TheStarscream second in command]] from drugging him and seizing power, leaving him as a comatose figurehead as his new government fell back into the atrocities of Nazi Germany.
to:
* Specifically invoked in an episode of ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries''; John Gill, a noted historian, is sent by TheFederation to observe a primitive planet, only to break the [[{{Alien Non-Interference Clause}} [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]] and set up a Nazi-like government on the planet to tame it. He directly states that he wanted to use the efficiency of the Nazis to bring order to the world without bringing the malice associated with it in as well, and for a while it actually worked. However, it wasn't efficient enough to stop his [[TheStarscream second in command]] from drugging him and seizing power, leaving him as a comatose figurehead as his new government fell back into the atrocities of Nazi Germany.
12th Oct '15 11:00:26 AM Hanz
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** The Protoss Conclave is shown to be utterly incompetent in defending Aiur against the [[HordeOfAlienLocusts Zerg]] [[AlienInvasion invasion]] due to [[HonorBeforeReason their insistance to rely on traditional protoss tactics]] (which ''aren't'' at all adapted against a ZergRush and end up costing many protoss lifes) and constant refusal to accept help from [[DarkIsNotEvil the Dark Templar]] for ideological reason, [[TooDumbToLive even though the Dark Templars possess exactly what is needed to defeat the Zerg]]. Unsurprisingly, they are the first to get exterminated by the time of ''Brood War''.
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** The Protoss Conclave is shown to be utterly incompetent in defending Aiur against the [[HordeOfAlienLocusts Zerg]] [[AlienInvasion invasion]] due to [[HonorBeforeReason their insistance insistence to rely on traditional protoss tactics]] (which ''aren't'' at all adapted against a ZergRush and end up costing many protoss lifes) and constant refusal to accept help from [[DarkIsNotEvil the Dark Templar]] for ideological reason, [[TooDumbToLive even though the Dark Templars possess exactly what is needed to defeat the Zerg]]. Unsurprisingly, they are the first to get exterminated by the time of ''Brood War''.

* ''VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic'': Even at the finest eras of the Sith Empire, the infrastructure is crumbling or nonexistent, and everyone from two bit officials to the Sith theocracy is too busy [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder backstabbing each other]] or fearing their underling's constant attempts at invoking KlingonPromotion to accomplish ''anything''. Add an untenable [[WeWillUseManualLaborInTheFuture reliance on slave labor]] and a boatload of FantasticRacism against ''every'' non-human (or non-Sith) species, in a galaxy with ''[[LoadsAndLoadsOfRaces over twenty million sentient species]]''.
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* ''VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic'': Even at the finest eras of the Sith Empire, the infrastructure is crumbling or nonexistent, and everyone from two bit officials to the Sith theocracy is too busy [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder backstabbing each other]] or fearing their underling's constant attempts at invoking KlingonPromotion to accomplish ''anything''. Add an untenable [[WeWillUseManualLaborInTheFuture reliance on slave labor]] and a boatload of FantasticRacism against ''every'' non-human (or non-Sith) species, in a galaxy with ''[[LoadsAndLoadsOfRaces over twenty million sentient species]]''. In the later storylines [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure Darth Marr]] takes acts to try and fix this, enacting pro-alien policies as well as trying to curb some of the Empire's worse habits (particularly the rampant backstabbing/politicking).
10th Sep '15 7:41:11 AM Talisguy
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** The Earth Kingdom stays completely incompetent in ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', where the [[spoiler:secret airbender conscript training]] goes so far as to ''discourage'' teamwork and protecting your allies, apparently because Earth Kingdom culture reveres blundering idiocy or something.
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** The Earth Kingdom stays completely incompetent in ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', where the [[spoiler:secret airbender conscript training]] goes so far as to ''discourage'' teamwork and protecting your allies, apparently because Earth Kingdom culture reveres blundering idiocy or something. [[spoiler:Again, taken to its' logical conclusion when the entire Kingdom falls apart in spectacular fashion once [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen the Earth Queen]] is assassinated and the walls separating the dirt-poor Lower Ring from the decadent and obscenely wealthy Upper and Middle Rings are brought down. And like in the previous series, the next regime was a fascist dictatorship that was NOT run by morons.]]
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