History Main / FascistButInefficient

27th Aug '17 10:36:21 AM nscb
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This trope isn't just limited to fascism, but authoritarianism in general. Certain types of Communists, and even good ol' fashioned non-ideological tyrants, most notoriously [[BananaRepublic military dictatorships]], can fit under this trope. In fact, the trope runs a wide gamut of malice and effectiveness. This kind of government can actually be run by LawfulGood characters whose haphazard enforcement of the law usually keeps the heroes from doing their job. LaResistance may operate under the auspice of a mildly incompetent evil government, such that their activities go unnoticed. Other such governments are just [[SelectiveObliviousness willfully ignorant]] of certain lawbreakers for whatever reason, be it prejudice, corruption or plain old laziness. A distinct possibility is that the boss ''really is'' SurroundedByIdiots just as he's been saying all along.

to:

This trope isn't just limited to fascism, but authoritarianism in general. Certain types of Communists, [[EvilColonialist colonial imperialists]], and even good ol' fashioned non-ideological tyrants, most notoriously [[BananaRepublic military dictatorships]], can fit under this trope. In fact, the trope runs a wide gamut of malice and effectiveness. This kind of government can actually be run by LawfulGood characters whose haphazard enforcement of the law usually keeps the heroes from doing their job. LaResistance may operate under the auspice of a mildly incompetent evil government, such that their activities go unnoticed. Other such governments are just [[SelectiveObliviousness willfully ignorant]] of certain lawbreakers for whatever reason, be it prejudice, corruption or plain old laziness. A distinct possibility is that the boss ''really is'' SurroundedByIdiots just as he's been saying all along.
23rd Aug '17 8:52:14 PM TheD3rp
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ThoseWackyNazis. Sure, they might be brutal and genocidal, but at least they can [[NoDelaysForTheWicked make trains run on time]] and all that good stuff... only, the actual Nazis couldn't even do that. With military resources spread across four completely separate services that had to be actively bullied by Hitler into cooperating ([[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, SS]])[[note]]Indeed, Hitler once joked that he had an [[UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany Imperial Army]], Nazi Air Force, and [[DirtyCommies Socialist Navy]][[/note]], four economic institutions which competed for limited resources[[note]] Walther Funk's Ministry of Economics, Luftwaffe-head Herman Goering's Four-Year Plan Organisation, Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) General Georg Thomas' War Economy Office, and Fritz Todt's Ministry of Weapons and Munitions [[/note]], two General Headquarters [[note]] Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH) - 'Ostfront'/USSR. Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) - 'Westfront'/everything else including all rail-supply/logistics ''even in the areas controlled by the OKH'' [[/note]], two intelligence services (Abwehr, Gestapo) that never shared information and occasionally offed each other's agents, two civil services and two courts (one regular/normal, one political), and ''five'' atomic bomb programs that shared no information or resources with each other [[note]] Most, if not all, of this compartmentalization was due to Hitler's personal intervention, as he feared too much power being concentrated in any organization that wasn't run directly by him. [[/note]]. UsefulNotes/NaziGermany was actually one of the most inefficient states in history -- and that's not even accounting for the gross corruption. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK419Nlp8eU&t=1s Hitler himself made quite a few amateur mistakes]], creating a two-front war, never listening to his generals, never allowing a retreat, and invading Russia during winter with an army unprepared for cold weather. In RealLife, the only thing efficient about dictatorships is their total control of the media, which they use to portray themselves as being extremely efficient (and [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny benevolent]]) despite their crippling factional in-fighting and [[CorruptPolitician endemic corruption]].

to:

ThoseWackyNazis. Sure, they might be brutal and genocidal, but at least they can [[NoDelaysForTheWicked make trains run on time]] and all that good stuff... only, the actual Nazis couldn't even do that. With military resources spread across four completely separate services that had to be actively bullied by Hitler into cooperating ([[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, SS]])[[note]]Indeed, Hitler once joked that he had an [[UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany Imperial Army]], Nazi Air Force, and [[DirtyCommies Socialist Navy]][[/note]], four economic institutions which competed for limited resources[[note]] Walther Funk's Ministry of Economics, Luftwaffe-head Herman Goering's Four-Year Plan Organisation, Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) General Georg Thomas' War Economy Office, and Fritz Todt's Ministry of Weapons and Munitions [[/note]], two General Headquarters [[note]] Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH) - 'Ostfront'/USSR. Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) - 'Westfront'/everything else including all rail-supply/logistics ''even in the areas controlled by the OKH'' [[/note]], two intelligence services (Abwehr, Gestapo) that never shared information and occasionally offed each other's agents, two civil services and two courts (one regular/normal, one political), and ''five'' atomic bomb programs that shared no information or resources with each other [[note]] Most, if not all, of this compartmentalization was due to Hitler's personal intervention, as he feared too much power being concentrated in any organization that wasn't run directly by him. [[/note]]. UsefulNotes/NaziGermany was actually one of the most inefficient states in history -- and that's not even accounting for the gross corruption. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK419Nlp8eU&t=1s Hitler himself made quite a few amateur mistakes]], creating a two-front war, never listening to his generals, never allowing a retreat, and invading Russia during winter with an army unprepared for cold weather. In RealLife, the only thing efficient about dictatorships is their total control of the media, which they use to portray themselves as being extremely efficient (and [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny benevolent]]) despite their crippling factional in-fighting and [[CorruptPolitician endemic corruption]].
23rd Aug '17 5:20:13 AM WillyFourEyes
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ThoseWackyNazis. Sure, they might be brutal and genocidal, but at least they can [[NoDelaysForTheWicked make trains run on time]] and all that good stuff... only, the actual Nazis couldn't even do that. With military resources spread across four completely separate services that had to be actively bullied by Hitler into cooperating ([[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, SS]])[[note]]Indeed, Hitler once joked that he had an [[UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany Imperial Army]], Nazi Air Force, and [[DirtyCommies Socialist Navy]][[/note]], four economic institutions which competed for limited resources[[note]] Walther Funk's Ministry of Economics, Luftwaffe-head Herman Goering's Four-Year Plan Organisation, Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) General Georg Thomas' War Economy Office, and Fritz Todt's Ministry of Weapons and Munitions [[/note]], two General Headquarters [[note]] Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH) - 'Ostfront'/USSR. Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) - 'Westfront'/everything else including all rail-supply/logistics ''even in the areas controlled by the OKH'' [[/note]], two intelligence services (Abwehr, Gestapo) that never shared information and occasionally offed each other's agents, two civil services and two courts (one regular/normal, one political), and ''five'' atomic bomb programs that shared no information or resources with each other [[note]] Most, if not all, of this compartmentalization was due to Hitler's personal intervention, as he feared too much power being concentrated in any organization that wasn't run directly by him. [[/note]]. UsefulNotes/NaziGermany was actually one of the most inefficient states in history -- and that's not even accounting for the gross corruption. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK419Nlp8eU&t=1s Hitler himself made quite a few amateur mistakes]], creating a two-front war, never listening to his generals, never allowing a retreat, and invading Russia during winter with an army unprepared for cold weather. In RealLife, the only thing efficient about dictatorships is their total control of the media, which they use to portray themselves as being extremely efficient (and [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny benevolent]]) despite their crippling [[NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering
factional in-fighting]] and [[CorruptPolitician endemic corruption]].

to:

ThoseWackyNazis. Sure, they might be brutal and genocidal, but at least they can [[NoDelaysForTheWicked make trains run on time]] and all that good stuff... only, the actual Nazis couldn't even do that. With military resources spread across four completely separate services that had to be actively bullied by Hitler into cooperating ([[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, SS]])[[note]]Indeed, Hitler once joked that he had an [[UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany Imperial Army]], Nazi Air Force, and [[DirtyCommies Socialist Navy]][[/note]], four economic institutions which competed for limited resources[[note]] Walther Funk's Ministry of Economics, Luftwaffe-head Herman Goering's Four-Year Plan Organisation, Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) General Georg Thomas' War Economy Office, and Fritz Todt's Ministry of Weapons and Munitions [[/note]], two General Headquarters [[note]] Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH) - 'Ostfront'/USSR. Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) - 'Westfront'/everything else including all rail-supply/logistics ''even in the areas controlled by the OKH'' [[/note]], two intelligence services (Abwehr, Gestapo) that never shared information and occasionally offed each other's agents, two civil services and two courts (one regular/normal, one political), and ''five'' atomic bomb programs that shared no information or resources with each other [[note]] Most, if not all, of this compartmentalization was due to Hitler's personal intervention, as he feared too much power being concentrated in any organization that wasn't run directly by him. [[/note]]. UsefulNotes/NaziGermany was actually one of the most inefficient states in history -- and that's not even accounting for the gross corruption. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK419Nlp8eU&t=1s Hitler himself made quite a few amateur mistakes]], creating a two-front war, never listening to his generals, never allowing a retreat, and invading Russia during winter with an army unprepared for cold weather. In RealLife, the only thing efficient about dictatorships is their total control of the media, which they use to portray themselves as being extremely efficient (and [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny benevolent]]) despite their crippling [[NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering
factional in-fighting]] in-fighting and [[CorruptPolitician endemic corruption]].
23rd Aug '17 5:17:07 AM WillyFourEyes
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ThoseWackyNazis. Sure, they might be brutal and genocidal, but at least they can [[NoDelaysForTheWicked make trains run on time]] and all that good stuff... only, the actual Nazis couldn't even do that. With military resources spread across four completely separate services that had to be actively bullied by Hitler into cooperating ([[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, SS]])[[note]]Indeed, Hitler once joked that he had an [[UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany Imperial Army]], Nazi Air Force, and [[DirtyCommies Socialist Navy]][[/note]], four economic institutions which competed for limited resources[[note]] Walther Funk's Ministry of Economics, Luftwaffe-head Herman Goering's Four-Year Plan Organisation, Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) General Georg Thomas' War Economy Office, and Fritz Todt's Ministry of Weapons and Munitions [[/note]], two General Headquarters [[note]] Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH) - 'Ostfront'/USSR. Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) - 'Westfront'/everything else including all rail-supply/logistics ''even in the areas controlled by the OKH'' [[/note]], two intelligence services (Abwehr, Gestapo) that never shared information and occasionally offed each other's agents, two civil services and two courts (one regular/normal, one political), and ''five'' atomic bomb programs that shared no information or resources with each other [[note]] Most, if not all, of this compartmentalization was due to Hitler's personal intervention, as he feared too much power being concentrated in any organization that wasn't run directly by him. [[/note]]. UsefulNotes/NaziGermany was actually one of the most inefficient states in history -- and that's not even accounting for the gross corruption. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK419Nlp8eU&t=1s Hitler himself made quite a few amateur mistakes]], creating a two-front war, never listening to his generals, never allowing a retreat, and invading Russia during winter with an army unprepared for cold weather. In RealLife, the only thing efficient about dictatorships is their total control of the media, which they use to portray themselves as being extremely efficient (and benevolent) despite their crippling factional in-fighting and endemic corruption.

to:

ThoseWackyNazis. Sure, they might be brutal and genocidal, but at least they can [[NoDelaysForTheWicked make trains run on time]] and all that good stuff... only, the actual Nazis couldn't even do that. With military resources spread across four completely separate services that had to be actively bullied by Hitler into cooperating ([[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, SS]])[[note]]Indeed, Hitler once joked that he had an [[UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany Imperial Army]], Nazi Air Force, and [[DirtyCommies Socialist Navy]][[/note]], four economic institutions which competed for limited resources[[note]] Walther Funk's Ministry of Economics, Luftwaffe-head Herman Goering's Four-Year Plan Organisation, Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) General Georg Thomas' War Economy Office, and Fritz Todt's Ministry of Weapons and Munitions [[/note]], two General Headquarters [[note]] Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH) - 'Ostfront'/USSR. Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) - 'Westfront'/everything else including all rail-supply/logistics ''even in the areas controlled by the OKH'' [[/note]], two intelligence services (Abwehr, Gestapo) that never shared information and occasionally offed each other's agents, two civil services and two courts (one regular/normal, one political), and ''five'' atomic bomb programs that shared no information or resources with each other [[note]] Most, if not all, of this compartmentalization was due to Hitler's personal intervention, as he feared too much power being concentrated in any organization that wasn't run directly by him. [[/note]]. UsefulNotes/NaziGermany was actually one of the most inefficient states in history -- and that's not even accounting for the gross corruption. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK419Nlp8eU&t=1s Hitler himself made quite a few amateur mistakes]], creating a two-front war, never listening to his generals, never allowing a retreat, and invading Russia during winter with an army unprepared for cold weather. In RealLife, the only thing efficient about dictatorships is their total control of the media, which they use to portray themselves as being extremely efficient (and benevolent) [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny benevolent]]) despite their crippling [[NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering
factional in-fighting in-fighting]] and [[CorruptPolitician endemic corruption.
corruption]].



This trope isn't just limited to fascism, but authoritarianism in general. Certain types of Communists, and even good ol' fashioned non-ideological tyrants, most notoriously military dictatorships, can fit under this trope. In fact, the trope runs a wide gamut of malice and effectiveness. This kind of government can actually be run by LawfulGood characters whose haphazard enforcement of the law usually keeps the heroes from doing their job. LaResistance may operate under the auspice of a mildly incompetent evil government, such that their activities go unnoticed. Other such governments are just [[SelectiveObliviousness willfully ignorant]] of certain lawbreakers for whatever reason, be it prejudice, corruption or plain old laziness. A distinct possibility is that the boss ''really is'' SurroundedByIdiots just as he's been saying all along.

to:

This trope isn't just limited to fascism, but authoritarianism in general. Certain types of Communists, and even good ol' fashioned non-ideological tyrants, most notoriously [[BananaRepublic military dictatorships, dictatorships]], can fit under this trope. In fact, the trope runs a wide gamut of malice and effectiveness. This kind of government can actually be run by LawfulGood characters whose haphazard enforcement of the law usually keeps the heroes from doing their job. LaResistance may operate under the auspice of a mildly incompetent evil government, such that their activities go unnoticed. Other such governments are just [[SelectiveObliviousness willfully ignorant]] of certain lawbreakers for whatever reason, be it prejudice, corruption or plain old laziness. A distinct possibility is that the boss ''really is'' SurroundedByIdiots just as he's been saying all along.



* ''Anime/CodeGeass'': Britania enforces ethnic inequality. You get 20 years for going on a drug binge, they have public mass executions, etc. Brittanian gangsters, by contrast, live in huge buildings visible to everyone and don't seem to fear any legal repercussions whatsoever. One gangster nearly kills a (Brittanian) student to protect his reputation as a chess player and is only stopped by a sudden attack from Zero's Black Knights. They also act more or less with impunity. But what do they expect when the Emperor openly approves murder and theft in his public speeches as [[TheSocialDarwinist strength overcoming weakness]]?
* The World of Mana in ''Anime/CrossAnge'' may be home of the most excessively fascist and evil society known to man. However, they're equally as incompetent and idiotic. Their methods of execution are more of tormenting the oppressed Norma than efficiently killing them. The leadership waste time bickering over one another rather than getting things done themselves, and anything that ''does'' get done is through the help of the BigBad. And the lack of war resulted in generations of complacency and once a war comes into their society, they have no means of fighting back.

to:

* ''Anime/CodeGeass'': Britania Britannia enforces ethnic inequality. You get 20 years for going on a drug binge, they have public mass executions, etc. Brittanian Britannian gangsters, by contrast, live in huge buildings visible to everyone and don't seem to fear any legal repercussions whatsoever. One gangster nearly kills a (Brittanian) (Britannian) student to protect his reputation as a chess player and is only stopped by a sudden attack from Zero's Black Knights. They also act more or less with impunity. But what do they expect when the Emperor openly approves murder and theft in his public speeches as [[TheSocialDarwinist strength overcoming weakness]]?
* The World of Mana in ''Anime/CrossAnge'' may be home of the most excessively fascist and evil society known to man. However, they're equally as incompetent and idiotic. Their methods of execution are more of [[ColdBloodedTorture tormenting the oppressed Norma Norma]] than efficiently killing them. The leadership waste time bickering over one another rather than getting things done themselves, and anything that ''does'' get done is through the help of the BigBad. And the lack of war resulted in generations of complacency and once a war comes into their society, they have no means of fighting back.



** Same go for San Theodoros, where the two dictators, General Alcazar and General Tapioca, are both so ineffective they constantly overthrow each others in the blink of an eye.
* ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'', Mega-City One has a ludicrous number of laws and the Judges act as JudgeJuryAndExecutioner by definition. Is it any wonder that the crime rate is through the roof and the vast majority of its citizenry live in poverty?

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** Same go goes for San Theodoros, where the two dictators, General Alcazar and General Tapioca, are both so ineffective they constantly overthrow each others other in the blink of an eye.
* ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'', ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'': Mega-City One has a ludicrous number of laws and the Judges act as JudgeJuryAndExecutioner by definition. Is it any wonder that the crime rate is through the roof and the vast majority of its citizenry live in poverty?
16th Aug '17 11:14:01 AM Jhonny
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** {{Justified}} since [[spoiler:the Lord Ruler's only two real concerns were hoarding [[FantasyMetals atium]] for the purpose of weakening [[GreaterScopeVillain Ruin]], and preventing total human extinction long enough for him to AscendToAHigherPlaneOFExistence and fix everything he messed up the last time. Beyond that, he really didn't care what happened unless somebody either broke into his palace or called him out personallu]].

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** {{Justified}} since [[spoiler:the Lord Ruler's only two real concerns were hoarding [[FantasyMetals atium]] for the purpose of weakening [[GreaterScopeVillain Ruin]], and preventing total human extinction long enough for him to AscendToAHigherPlaneOFExistence and fix everything he messed up the last time. Beyond that, he really didn't care what happened unless somebody either broke into his palace or called him out personallu]].personally]].
16th Aug '17 6:18:06 AM RobTan
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** {{Justified}} since [[spoiler:the Lord Ruler's only two real concerns were hoarding [[FantasyMetals atium]] for the purpose of weakening [[GreaterScopeVillain Ruin]], and preventing total human extinction for ten thousand years so he could AscendToAHigherPlaneOFExistence and fix everything he messed up the last time]].

to:

** {{Justified}} since [[spoiler:the Lord Ruler's only two real concerns were hoarding [[FantasyMetals atium]] for the purpose of weakening [[GreaterScopeVillain Ruin]], and preventing total human extinction long enough for ten thousand years so he could him to AscendToAHigherPlaneOFExistence and fix everything he messed up the last time]].time. Beyond that, he really didn't care what happened unless somebody either broke into his palace or called him out personallu]].
15th Aug '17 9:29:40 AM RobTan
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Added DiffLines:

** {{Justified}} since [[spoiler:the Lord Ruler's only two real concerns were hoarding [[FantasyMetals atium]] for the purpose of weakening [[GreaterScopeVillain Ruin]], and preventing total human extinction for ten thousand years so he could AscendToAHigherPlaneOFExistence and fix everything he messed up the last time]].
24th Jul '17 1:31:50 PM kome360
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Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/WolfensteinTheNewOrder'': In this alternate timeline, Nazis discover a cache of LostTechnology, reverse-engineer what they can, and use it to take over the world. What follows is a deconstruction of the Fascist Singularity: the technology is so advanced that any attempt to apply it for non-military use is shot down because pacifist renovations don't hold up well against a robot army led by an ambitious rival or a paranoid superior. The overall strength of the Nazis is unparalleled but they're constantly backstabbing and infighting offscreen, or otherwise being boggled down by incompetent or apathetic leaders to do anything but strengthen their military assets. End result? The Nazis are using 23rd-century offensive, defensive, and enslavement technology in 1960, but the common people are stuck with 19'''50's''' tech, forced to bear the machinations of the genocidal Nazis without any technological advances or social relief, and are collectively VERY pissed off.
16th Jul '17 9:19:54 AM nombretomado
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* The WW2 novels by Creator/SvenHassel have the supposedly efficient war machine and civil administration of the Nazis actually be corrupt and massively wasteful of resources and human lives. Wholly TruthInTelevision.

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* The WW2 [=WW2=] novels by Creator/SvenHassel have the supposedly efficient war machine and civil administration of the Nazis actually be corrupt and massively wasteful of resources and human lives. Wholly TruthInTelevision.
1st Jul '17 9:17:29 AM nombretomado
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Compare DystopiaIsHard. Contrast RepressiveButEfficient. See TheOtherWiki for RealLife examples.

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Compare DystopiaIsHard. Contrast RepressiveButEfficient. See TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki for RealLife examples.
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