Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Main / FairPlayWhodunnit

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': [memory unavailable] asks Odo if he's worked out who the killer in the book was. He says "by the third page." Either he's just that good or the book's just that bad.

to:

* ''StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': [memory unavailable] [[GirlOfTheWeek Arissa]] asks Odo if he's worked out who the killer in the book was. He says "by the third page." Either he's just that good or the book's just that bad.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** However, in some Wolfe stories no effort is made to make the mystery fair. In "Fourth Of July Picnic," for example, there is ''no way'' to choose between the three suspects, so Wolfe bluffs the murderer into confessing, and we don't find out the motive until the last few sentences.

Added: 241

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* IsaacAsimov deliberately wrote his ''BlackWidowers'' mystery stories in this fashion.

to:

* IsaacAsimov deliberately wrote his ''BlackWidowers'' ''Black Widowers'' mystery stories in this fashion.


Added DiffLines:

** Asimov also tweaked the novelization of ''[[FantasticVoyagePlot Fantastic Voyage]]'' to provide clues to the identity of [[TheMole the saboteur in the crew]], as well as to [[HandWave paper over the scientific problems with the concept]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* All ''EncyclopediaBrown'' mysteries are deliberately like this... but some of the "solutions" are [[ConvictionByContradiction less plausible than others]].

to:

* All ''EncyclopediaBrown'' mysteries are deliberately like this... but some of the "solutions" are [[ConvictionByContradiction [[ConvictionByCounterfactualClue less plausible than others]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Although when the solution to the epitaph was (possibly?) revealed [[spoiler:in Episode 7, it turns out that an English speaker would in all likelihood actually have an EASIER time solving it!]]

to:

*** Although when the solution to the epitaph was (possibly?) revealed [[spoiler:in Episode 7, it turns out that an English speaker would in all likelihood actually have an EASIER time solving it!]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Knox was primarily concerned with the cliché, rather than racial stereotyping.


# No [[YellowPeril Chinaman]] must figure in the story.
** Note that this is not a case of racism, but rather a case of unsophisticated anti-racism, given the YellowPeril figures prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time. The modern American equivalent would probably be a Middle Eastern character or a ScaryBlackMan.

to:

# No [[YellowPeril Chinaman]] Chinaman must figure in the story.
** Note that this is was not a case of racism, racism (though the now-offensive but rather generally obsolete term "Chinaman" is a case of unsophisticated anti-racism, given ValuesDissonance), but a reaction against the clichéd YellowPeril figures villains prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time. The modern American equivalent would probably be a Middle Eastern character or a ScaryBlackMan.time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Done badly, this can lead to ConvictionByContradiction.

to:

Done badly, this can lead to ConvictionByContradiction. Done correctly, and it turns into what Golden Age writer John Dickson Carr called "The Grandest Game in the World."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


# No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have [[IJustKnew an unaccountable intuition]] [[BatDeduction which proves to be right]].

to:

# No accident must ever [[DeusExMachina help the detective, detective]], nor must he ever have [[IJustKnew an unaccountable intuition]] [[BatDeduction which proves to be right]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** The writers lampshade this by ending the first part with Dr. Hibbert turning to the viewer and saying "Well, I couldn't possibly solve this mystery...can YOU?" Then the camera pans back and we realize he's actually talking to Chief Wiggum.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** And of course special mention most go to the 2-part Season 6 closer/Season 7 opener Who Shot Mr. Burns? Even though the ending did seem to come out of the blue, the clues were indeed all there, with the mystery even being drummed up as a contest to see who could figure it out. In fact, the culprit was actually properly identified by a fan of the show, legitimately using the clues presented, in the summer between the two episodes.

to:

** And of course special mention most must go to the 2-part Season 6 closer/Season 7 opener Who "Who Shot Mr. Burns? Burns?". Even though the ending culprit did seem to come out of the blue, the clues were indeed all there, with the mystery even being drummed up as a contest to see who could figure it out. In fact, the culprit was actually properly identified by a fan of the show, legitimately using the clues presented, in the summer between the two episodes. Sadly, he didn't actually win anything.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

**And of course special mention most go to the 2-part Season 6 closer/Season 7 opener Who Shot Mr. Burns? Even though the ending did seem to come out of the blue, the clues were indeed all there, with the mystery even being drummed up as a contest to see who could figure it out. In fact, the culprit was actually properly identified by a fan of the show, legitimately using the clues presented, in the summer between the two episodes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** We have it on the good authority of the LanguageOfTruth that the mysteries of the first four Episodes are meant to be solvable, and that there should be enough evidence to do so. However, it violates the usual Fair Play rules, as some of the evidence is only provided by supernatural means.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


# No hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance which will need a long scientific explanation at the end.

to:

# No hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance which will need [[TechnoBabble a long scientific explanation at the end.end]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Note that this is not a case of racism, but rather a case of unsophisticated anti-racism, given the YellowPeril figures prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time. The modern American equivalent would probably be an Arab/Muslim or a ScaryBlackMan.

to:

** Note that this is not a case of racism, but rather a case of unsophisticated anti-racism, given the YellowPeril figures prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time. The modern American equivalent would probably be an Arab/Muslim a Middle Eastern character or a ScaryBlackMan.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Note that this is not a case of racism, but rather a case of unsophisticated anti-racism, given the YellowPeril figures prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time. The modern American equivalent would probably be Arab terrorists.

to:

** Note that this is not a case of racism, but rather a case of unsophisticated anti-racism, given the YellowPeril figures prevalent in dodgy crime fiction at the time. The modern American equivalent would probably be Arab terrorists.an Arab/Muslim or a ScaryBlackMan.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* The EagleEyeMysteries PC game series eventually becomes this for older and more seasoned and experienced players.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Not only that, but said character actually talks at length on what separates a Fair Play Whodunnit from a Clueless Mystery, even specifically mentioning the problem with language, or specialized knowledge. Ryukishi07 is very, very Genre Savvy. An example he gives is the riddle. "Why do dragons sleep during the day? Because they fight knights!" Easy for an Anglophone, impossible for a Japanese speaker.

to:

** Not only that, but said character actually talks at length on what separates a Fair Play Whodunnit from a Clueless Mystery, CluelessMystery, even specifically mentioning the problem with language, or specialized knowledge. Ryukishi07 is very, very Genre Savvy. An example he gives is the riddle. "Why do dragons sleep during the day? Because they fight knights!" Easy for an Anglophone, impossible for a Japanese speaker.

Added: 366

Changed: 147

Removed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** A slight example: In ''The Many Deaths of the Batman'', Batman seemingly falls off a roof and into a river while chasing a crook, and his body is fished out of Gotham river. Observant readers will note that the first chase sequence clearly has the ''Eiffel Tower'' in the background. Sure enough, Batman's alive and well, just a bit damp.

to:

** A slight example: In ''The Many Deaths of the Batman'', Batman seemingly falls off a roof and into a river while chasing a crook, and his body is fished out of Gotham river.River. Observant readers will note that the first chase sequence clearly has the ''Eiffel Tower'' in the background. Sure enough, Batman's alive and well, just a bit damp.



* In Shirley Jackson's 'We Have Always Lived in the Castle', the answer to who killed the whole family of the two surviving sisters and uncle is fairly clearly stated.

to:

* In Shirley Jackson's 'We Have Always Lived in the Castle', an entire family was murdered, and the answer to who killed the whole family which of the two surviving sisters and uncle three survivors committed the crime is fairly clearly stated.clued within.



* The ''ElleryQueen'' novels -- the first eight, which contain a nationality in the title, and the ninth, "Halfway House" -- were like this, and would actually have a point before the solution where the story would pause and the author would tell the reader that they now have all the facts required to solve the mystery. This ?Challenge to the Reader? was carried over to the ElleryQueen radio show and 1970s TV series, where Ellery would make a "Challenge to the Viewer" before the final ad break.

to:

* The ''ElleryQueen'' novels -- the first eight, which contain a nationality in the title, and the ninth, "Halfway House" -- were like this, and would actually have a point before the solution where the story would pause and the author would tell the reader that they now have all the facts required to solve the mystery. This ?Challenge "Challenge to the Reader? Reader" was carried over to the ElleryQueen radio show and 1970s TV series, where Ellery would make a "Challenge to the Viewer" before the final ad break.



* The stories of John Dickson Carr (as well as his pseudonym Carter Dickson) always showed you all the clues. The only problem was usually that the murder was ''impossible'' to begin with, so you couldn't figure out ''how'', much less who. Carr even [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded the tar out of this]] in ''The Three Coffins'' when Dr. Fell stops in the middle of the novel to explain all the ways you can do a locked room mystery, because there was no point in pretending they weren't in such a novel. At the end of the chapter (yes, it's a full chapter of all the ways to pull one off) the other characters tell him that the two murders don't fit into ''any'' of his categories. [[spoiler: They're really wrong.]]

to:

* The stories of John Dickson Carr (as well as his pseudonym Carter Dickson) always showed you all the clues. The only problem was usually that the murder was ''impossible'' to begin with, so you couldn't figure out ''how'', much less who. Carr even [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded the tar out of this]] in ''The Three Coffins'' when Dr. Fell stops in the middle of the novel to explain all the ways you can do a locked room mystery, [[BreakingTheFourthWall because there was no point in pretending they weren't in such a novel.novel]]. At the end of the chapter (yes, it's a full chapter of all the ways to pull one off) the other characters tell him that the two murders don't fit into ''any'' of his categories. [[spoiler: They're really wrong.]]]]
** Carr's essay "The Greatest Game in the World" makes a key point about what makes a Fair Play Whodunnit really fair, and good when done right: the key to the case isn't just one clue - a random word hidden in chapter six - but a system of interlocking clues that allow the reader to open a tapestry of interpretation that gives a larger picture: that of the truth.



*** An they even talk about how ThePowerOfTrust and ThePowerOfLove are needed to make the reader solve a FairPlayWhodunnit

to:

*** An And they even talk about how ThePowerOfTrust and ThePowerOfLove are needed to make the reader solve a FairPlayWhodunnit



* {{Persona4}} arguably counts. The player is given all the information, and the culprit is someone they know. In the endgame, the player is given a list of all the characters (s)he has met so far, and a set of clues which should narrow it down to one person. They must then select the culprit correctly within three guesses, or be foisted off with a bad ending. Unfortunately, there's 80 hours of dungeon crawling between those vital clues and the event when it becomes crucial to remember them.

to:

* {{Persona4}} {{Persona 4}} arguably counts. The player is given all the information, and the culprit is someone they know. In the endgame, the player is given a list of all the characters (s)he has met so far, and a set of clues which should narrow it down to one person. They must then select the culprit correctly within three guesses, or be foisted off with a bad ending. Unfortunately, there's 80 hours of dungeon crawling between those vital clues and the event when it becomes crucial to remember them.



<<|OlderThanRadio|>>
)

to:

<<|OlderThanRadio|>>
)
<<|OlderThanRadio|>>
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** It should be mentioned that the trailer of Umineko had the words "No Knox. No Dine. No Fair."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


# No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right.

to:

# No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have [[IJustKnew an unaccountable intuition intuition]] [[BatDeduction which proves to be right.right]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In ''TheBigFour'', Christie violates as many of these rules as she can, probably [[StealthParody on purpose]].

to:

** In ''TheBigFour'', both ''TheBigFour'' and TheMurderOfRogerAckroyd Christie violates as many of these rules as she can, probably [[StealthParody on purpose]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** In ''TheBigFour'', Christie violates as many of these rules as she can, probably [[StealthParody on purpose]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AgathaChristie was especially devious about this. We find, for example, Alice receiving a letter from Bob (to whom she was engaged) dated June 17; three chapters later we hear that Alice had an operation on June 17. The careful reader may realize that Bob would have known about his fiances medical situation, and yet there was no reference to it at all in the letter -- which suggests several possible theories about the real nature of their relationship. In retrospect, an obvious clue... but you have to be a meticulous reader to catch it.

to:

* AgathaChristie was especially devious about this. We find, for example, Alice receiving a letter from Bob (to whom she was engaged) dated June 17; three chapters later we hear that Alice had an operation on June 17. The careful reader may realize that Bob would have known about his fiances fiancee's medical situation, and yet there was no reference to it at all in the letter -- which suggests several possible theories about the real nature of their relationship. In retrospect, an obvious clue... but you have to be a meticulous reader to catch it.




to:

* The LordDarcy mysteries are an interesting case, in that they violate Rule #2 (since some of the characters have magical powers) and still manage to play fair with the reader. However, since the universe the stories are set in [[MagicAIsMagicA has consistent magical rules]], Rule #2 could be said to be broken in letter but not in spirit. In some of the stories the whole point is that everyone assumes an impossible murder was done by magic, and Lord Darcy explains how it could have been committed in a perfectly mundane way. Magic is mostly used for forensics.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''MurderSheWrote'' actually had quite a few, given that the killers usually revealed themselves by saying something only the killer would know or assume.

to:

* ''MurderSheWrote'' actually had quite a few, given that the killers usually revealed themselves by [[INeverSaidItWasPoison saying something only the killer would know or assume.assume]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* The first few Sideshow Bob episodes of ''TheSimpsons'' were this kind of story; later on, the writers abandoned the mystery angle because coming up with them proved too difficult.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** A slight example: In ''The Many Deaths of the Batman'', Batman seemingly falls off a roof and into a river while chasing a crook, and his body is fished out of Gotham river. Observant readers will note that the first chase sequence clearly has the ''Eiffel Tower'' in the background. Sure enough, Batman's alive and well, just a bit damp.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Although, as with most mystery TV shows, [[TVTropesWillRuinYourLife the more you know about tropes, the more obvious it is.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Although when the solution to the epitaph was (possibly?) revealed [[spoiler:in Episode 7, it turns out that an English speaker would in all likelihood actually have an EASIER time solving it!]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Played with in ''Deep Red''; an early scene actually shows the face of the murderer, but it's done so quickly - and before you know to look for it - that most people never catch on.

to:

* Played with in ''Deep Red''; ''DeepRed''; an early scene actually shows the face of the murderer, but it's done so quickly - and before you know to look for it - that most people never catch on.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* {{Persona4}} arguably counts. The player is given all the information, and the culprit is someone they know. In the endgame, the player is given a list of all the characters (s)he has met so far, and a set of clues which should narrow it down to one person. They must then select the culprit correctly within three guesses, or be foisted off with a bad ending. Unfortunately, there's 80 hours of dungeon crawling between those vital clues and the event when it becomes crucial to remember them.

Top