History Main / FairPlayWhodunnit

18th Nov '16 7:45:22 PM Scorpion451
Is there an issue? Send a Message


# No [[AppliedPhlebotinum hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance]] which will need [[{{Technobabble}} a long scientific explanation at the end]].

to:

# No [[AppliedPhlebotinum hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance]] which will need [[{{Technobabble}} a long scientific explanation at the end]]. [[note]]Like the supernatural rule, this is somewhat relaxed in the modern interpretation, but again the Phlebotinum must be [[ChekhovsClassroom introduced and clearly explained beforehand]].[[/note]]
4th Nov '16 7:54:56 PM Venatius
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Though more like logic puzzles or memory tests than traditional mysteries, the short stories in the ''Clue'' books by A. E. Parker, by design, always culminated in a specific mystery, for which the reader was given enough information to deduce the answer. Generally this simply involved keeping track of a series of fairly transparent mix-ups earlier in each story.
4th Nov '16 7:42:38 PM Venatius
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The ''Franchise/WhenTheyCry'' mysteries have Fair Play ''solutions'', but apparent violations are [[MindScrew used to misdirect]] the viewer, and either come from [[UnreliableNarrator unreliable]] [[UnreliableExpositor sources]], or they're [[RedHerring irrelevant to the who- and howdunnit]]. [[spoiler: While the individual mystery stories can be solved, there is ultimately no solution given for the broader question of what happened in the "real" mystery, or indeed what exactly that was, making the broader plot closer to a CluelessMystery.]]
** ''VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry'' starts out rather questionably if it's a mystery or a fantasy, and it's the main conflict of the first four arcs--as in ''the characters actually argue'' over the genre: Beatrice insists that she killed everyone with magic while Battler refuses to believe that magic exists at all, though he also handicaps himself by refusing to admit that this means someone he knows committed the murders. As the story progresses, we're first shown Beatrice killing everyone with magic, which makes Battler despair until it's explained that anything not seen from the personal perspective of his piece on the "game board" is unreliable information. In the fifth arc, the reader is presented with the Knox's Decalogue as a hint to solving the mysteries presented, with a further hint being that if it's possible for Battler to be right, then the story must by definition be a FairPlayWhodunnit. The only question is whether he can figure out how it was actually done or, more importantly, the real meaning of the game and what magic actually is.

to:

* The ''Franchise/WhenTheyCry'' mysteries have Fair Play ''solutions'', but apparent violations are [[MindScrew used to misdirect]] the viewer, and either come from [[UnreliableNarrator unreliable]] [[UnreliableExpositor sources]], or they're [[RedHerring irrelevant to the who- and howdunnit]]. [[spoiler: While the individual mystery stories can be solved, there is ultimately no solution given for the broader question of what happened in the "real" mystery, or indeed what exactly that was, making the broader plot closer to a CluelessMystery.]]
howdunnit]].
** ''VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry'' starts out rather questionably if it's a mystery or a fantasy, and it's the main conflict of the first four arcs--as in ''the characters actually argue'' over the genre: Beatrice insists that she killed everyone with magic while Battler refuses to believe that magic exists at all, though he also handicaps himself by refusing to admit that this means someone he knows committed the murders. As the story progresses, we're first shown Beatrice killing everyone with magic, which makes Battler despair until it's explained that anything not seen from the personal perspective of his piece on the "game board" is unreliable information. In the fifth arc, the reader is presented with the Knox's Decalogue as a hint to solving the mysteries presented, with a further hint being that if it's possible for Battler to be right, then the story must by definition be a FairPlayWhodunnit. The only question is whether he can figure out how it was actually done or, more importantly, the real meaning of the game and what magic actually is. [[spoiler: While some of the individual mystery stories can be solved, there is ultimately no solution given for the broader question of what happened in the "real" mystery, or indeed what exactly that was, making the broader plot closer to a CluelessMystery. Although literal clues abound, there is no way to confirm anything.]]
4th Nov '16 7:40:26 PM Venatius
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The ''Franchise/WhenTheyCry'' mysteries have Fair Play ''solutions'', but apparent violations are [[MindScrew used to misdirect]] the viewer, and either come from [[UnreliableNarrator unreliable]] [[UnreliableExpositor sources]], or they're [[RedHerring irrelevant to the who- and howdunnit]].

to:

* The ''Franchise/WhenTheyCry'' mysteries have Fair Play ''solutions'', but apparent violations are [[MindScrew used to misdirect]] the viewer, and either come from [[UnreliableNarrator unreliable]] [[UnreliableExpositor sources]], or they're [[RedHerring irrelevant to the who- and howdunnit]]. [[spoiler: While the individual mystery stories can be solved, there is ultimately no solution given for the broader question of what happened in the "real" mystery, or indeed what exactly that was, making the broader plot closer to a CluelessMystery.]]
13th Oct '16 6:29:32 PM SteveMB
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Asimov also tweaked the novelization of ''[[FantasticVoyagePlot Fantastic Voyage]]'' to provide clues to the identity of [[TheMole the saboteur in the crew]], as well as to [[HandWave paper over the scientific problems with the concept]].

to:

** Asimov also tweaked the novelization of ''[[FantasticVoyagePlot Fantastic Voyage]]'' ''Film/FantasticVoyage'' to provide clues to the identity of [[TheMole the saboteur in the crew]], as well as to [[HandWave paper over the scientific problems with the concept]].
29th Sep '16 11:37:49 PM PaulA
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Creator/MichaelConnelly's mystery novels are often these; ''Literature/ThePoet'' actually won an award for Fair Play. Make sure you read this before reading its sequel ''The Narrows'', which itself has a fair play TwistEnding.

to:

* Creator/MichaelConnelly's mystery novels are often these; ''Literature/ThePoet'' actually won an award for Fair Play. Make sure you read this before reading its sequel ''The Narrows'', ''Literature/TheNarrows'', which itself has a fair play TwistEnding.
16th Sep '16 1:28:24 AM PaulA
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The stories of Creator/JohnDicksonCarr (as well as his pseudonym Carter Dickson) always showed you all the clues. (Even when the supernatural was involved, as in ''The Devil in Velvet'', he always clearly laid out the [[MagicAIsMagicA rules the magic operated by]].) The only problem was usually that the murder was ''impossible'' to begin with, so you couldn't figure out ''how'', much less who. Carr even [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded the tar out of this]] in ''The Three Coffins'' when Dr. Fell stops in the middle of the novel to explain all the ways you can do a locked room mystery, [[BreakingTheFourthWall because there was no point in pretending they weren't in such a novel]]. At the end of the chapter (yes, it's a full chapter of all the ways to pull one off) the other characters tell him that the two murders don't fit into ''any'' of his categories. [[spoiler: They're really wrong.]]
** Carr's essay "The Greatest Game in the World" makes a key point about what makes a Fair-Play Whodunnit really fair, and good when done right: the key to the case isn't just one clue - a random word hidden in chapter six - but a system of interlocking clues that allow the reader to open a tapestry of interpretation that gives a larger picture: that of the truth.

to:

* The stories of Creator/JohnDicksonCarr (as well as his pseudonym Carter Dickson) always showed you all the clues. (Even when the supernatural was involved, as in ''The Devil in Velvet'', he always clearly laid out the [[MagicAIsMagicA rules the magic operated by]].) The only problem was usually that the murder was ''impossible'' to begin with, so you couldn't figure out ''how'', much less who. Carr even [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded the tar out of this]] in ''The Hollow Man'' (US: ''The Three Coffins'' Coffins'') when Dr. Fell Literature/DrGideonFell stops in the middle of the novel to explain all the ways you can do a locked room mystery, [[BreakingTheFourthWall because there was no point in pretending they weren't in such a novel]]. At the end of the chapter (yes, it's a full chapter of all the ways to pull one off) the other characters tell him that the two murders don't fit into ''any'' of his categories. [[spoiler: They're [[spoiler:They're really wrong.]]
**
]] Carr's essay "The Greatest Game in the World" makes a key point about what makes a Fair-Play Whodunnit really fair, and good when done right: the key to the case isn't just one clue - -- a random word hidden in chapter six - -- but a system of interlocking clues that allow the reader to open a tapestry of interpretation that gives a larger picture: that of the truth.
4th Aug '16 3:34:35 PM eroock
Is there an issue? Send a Message


# Not more than one secret room or [[SecretUndergroundPassage passage]] is allowable, and such a passage may only be in a house or building for which it is appropriate by age or purpose.

to:

# Not more than one secret room or [[SecretUndergroundPassage passage]] is allowable, and such a passage may only be in a house or building for which it is appropriate by age [[OldDarkHouse age]] or purpose.
4th Aug '16 3:18:03 PM eroock
Is there an issue? Send a Message


-->-- '''Creator/GKChesterton''''s oath for membership for the British Detective Club.

to:

-->-- '''Creator/GKChesterton''''s oath for membership for the British Detective Club.
Club
21st Jul '16 9:03:47 PM KamenRiderOokalf
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Asubversion is ''Have His Carcase'', where the solution requires on a very elaborate [[spoiler:(and accidental on the part of the murderer)]] trick involving the time of death. [[spoiler:The victim has a rare condition known as hemophilia, which prevents the blood from clotting, obscuring the ''real'' time of death.]] If the reader is knowledgeable enough in minor trivia, there are enough clues for a [[ViewersAreGeniuses genius]] to figure out what the trick is - but it requires a very specialized knowledge base that most people simply do not have. For those without the prerequisite knowledge, Lord Peter's [[TheReveal revelation]] seems a bit like an AssPull or DeusExMachina, though the astute and GenreSavvy reader can generally figure out that ''something'' is hinky, because everyone's alibi is too solid, which is what tips Wimsey off that something is hinky. [[spoiler:One of the things that tips him off to the ''identity'' of the murderer is that that suspect also has a (manufactured) alibi for the ''real'' time of death, once he realizes what that is.]]
* Most ''Literature/SherlockHolmes'' mysteries are not really fair, if only because Dr. Watson (the narrator) is not as observant as his colleague, but "The Lion's Mane" gives the reader enough information to draw a conclusion even before Holmes does (although this may not have been Conan Doyle's intention).

to:

** Asubversion A subversion is ''Have His Carcase'', where the solution requires on a very elaborate [[spoiler:(and accidental on the part of the murderer)]] trick involving the time of death. [[spoiler:The victim has a rare condition known as hemophilia, which prevents the blood from clotting, obscuring the ''real'' time of death.]] If the reader is knowledgeable enough in minor trivia, there are enough clues for a [[ViewersAreGeniuses genius]] to figure out what the trick is - but it requires a very specialized knowledge base that most people simply do not have. For those without the prerequisite knowledge, Lord Peter's [[TheReveal revelation]] seems a bit like an AssPull or DeusExMachina, though the astute and GenreSavvy reader can generally figure out that ''something'' is hinky, because everyone's alibi is too solid, which is what tips Wimsey off that something is hinky. [[spoiler:One of the things that tips him off to the ''identity'' of the murderer is that that suspect also has a (manufactured) alibi for the ''real'' time of death, once he realizes what that is.]]
* Most ''Literature/SherlockHolmes'' mysteries are not really fair, if only because Dr. Watson (the narrator) is not as observant as his colleague, but "The Lion's Mane" gives the reader enough information to draw a conclusion even before Holmes does (although (given that "The Lion's Mane" was one of the few stories narrated by Holmes himself, this may or may not have been Conan Doyle's intention).be intentional).



** "The Lion's Mane" was one of the few stories narrated by Holmes himself, which could mean the difference was intentional after all.
This list shows the last 10 events of 235. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.FairPlayWhodunnit