Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the tutorial, Jack explains that vampires prefer "quality" blood over quantity, and that humans will provide varying levels of nourishment depending on their genetic stock and/or socioeconomic status ("you ever have a [=PhD=] kid? That's good stuff"). In practice, every human provides the same amount of nourishment to the player character ''except'' for vagrants, who provide significantly less. When Ventrues drink a vagrant's blood, there is a random chance that they will vomit it back up, and the status notification refers to the vagrant as a "lowborn human": the term indicates that Ventrues find the blood distasteful specifically because of the vagrant's genetic stock, rather than their current, contingent socioeconomic status. I always found it strange that vagrants provide less nourishment to vampires than wealthy people of good breeding, but the same is not true of sex workers or gang-bangers. While obviously not all vagrants, sex workers or gang-bangers are "lowborn humans", I would have thought they'd be disproportionately likely to meet that description compared to, for instance, a wealthy dude with a fancy watch and a flash car.

to:

* In the tutorial, Jack explains that vampires prefer "quality" blood over quantity, and that humans will provide varying levels of nourishment depending on their genetic stock and/or socioeconomic status ("you ever have a [=PhD=] [=PhD=], kid? That's good stuff"). In practice, every human provides the same amount of nourishment to the player character ''except'' for vagrants, who provide significantly less. When Ventrues drink a vagrant's blood, there is a random chance that they will vomit it back up, and the status notification refers to the vagrant as a "lowborn human": the term indicates that Ventrues find the blood distasteful specifically because of the vagrant's genetic stock, rather than their current, contingent socioeconomic status. I always found it strange that vagrants provide less nourishment to vampires than wealthy people of good breeding, but the same is not true of sex workers or gang-bangers. While obviously not all vagrants, sex workers or gang-bangers are "lowborn humans", I would have thought they'd be disproportionately likely to meet that description compared to, for instance, a wealthy dude with a fancy watch and a flash car.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the tutorial, Jack explains that vampires prefer "quality" blood over quantity, and that humans will provide varying levels of nourishment depending on their genetic stock and/or socioeconomic status ("you ever have a [=PhD=] kid? That's good stuff"). In practice, every human provides the same amount of nourishment to the player character ''except'' for vagrants, who provide significantly less. When Ventrues drink a vagrant's blood, there is a random chance that they will vomit it back up, and the status notification refers to the vagrant as a "lowborn human", which suggests that it results from the vagrant's genetic stock rather than their socioeconomic status. I always found it strange that vagrants provide less nourishment to vampires than wealthy people of good breeding, but the same is not true of sex workers or gang-bangers. While obviously not all vagrants, sex workers or gang-bangers are "lowborn humans", I would have thought they'd be disproportionately likely to meet that description compared to, for instance, a wealthy dude with a fancy watch and a flash car.

to:

* In the tutorial, Jack explains that vampires prefer "quality" blood over quantity, and that humans will provide varying levels of nourishment depending on their genetic stock and/or socioeconomic status ("you ever have a [=PhD=] kid? That's good stuff"). In practice, every human provides the same amount of nourishment to the player character ''except'' for vagrants, who provide significantly less. When Ventrues drink a vagrant's blood, there is a random chance that they will vomit it back up, and the status notification refers to the vagrant as a "lowborn human", which suggests human": the term indicates that it results from Ventrues find the blood distasteful specifically because of the vagrant's genetic stock stock, rather than their current, contingent socioeconomic status. I always found it strange that vagrants provide less nourishment to vampires than wealthy people of good breeding, but the same is not true of sex workers or gang-bangers. While obviously not all vagrants, sex workers or gang-bangers are "lowborn humans", I would have thought they'd be disproportionately likely to meet that description compared to, for instance, a wealthy dude with a fancy watch and a flash car.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the tutorial, Jack explains that vampires prefer "quality" blood over quantity, and that humans will provide varying levels of nourishment depending on their genetic stock and/or socioeconomic status ("you ever have a PhD kid? That's good stuff"). In practice, every human provides the same amount of nourishment to the player character ''except'' for vagrants, who provide significantly less. When Ventrues drink a vagrant's blood, there is a random chance that they will vomit it back up, and the status notification refers to the vagrant as a "lowborn human", which suggests that it results from the vagrant's genetic stock rather than their socioeconomic status. I always found it strange that vagrants provide less nourishment to vampires than wealthy people of good breeding, but the same is not true of sex workers or gang-bangers. While obviously not all vagrants, sex workers or gang-bangers are "lowborn humans", I would have thought they'd be disproportionately likely to meet that description compared to, for instance, a wealthy dude with a fancy watch and a flash car.

to:

* In the tutorial, Jack explains that vampires prefer "quality" blood over quantity, and that humans will provide varying levels of nourishment depending on their genetic stock and/or socioeconomic status ("you ever have a PhD [=PhD=] kid? That's good stuff"). In practice, every human provides the same amount of nourishment to the player character ''except'' for vagrants, who provide significantly less. When Ventrues drink a vagrant's blood, there is a random chance that they will vomit it back up, and the status notification refers to the vagrant as a "lowborn human", which suggests that it results from the vagrant's genetic stock rather than their socioeconomic status. I always found it strange that vagrants provide less nourishment to vampires than wealthy people of good breeding, but the same is not true of sex workers or gang-bangers. While obviously not all vagrants, sex workers or gang-bangers are "lowborn humans", I would have thought they'd be disproportionately likely to meet that description compared to, for instance, a wealthy dude with a fancy watch and a flash car.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]
[[folder: "Quality" Blood]]
* In the tutorial, Jack explains that vampires prefer "quality" blood over quantity, and that humans will provide varying levels of nourishment depending on their genetic stock and/or socioeconomic status ("you ever have a PhD kid? That's good stuff"). In practice, every human provides the same amount of nourishment to the player character ''except'' for vagrants, who provide significantly less. When Ventrues drink a vagrant's blood, there is a random chance that they will vomit it back up, and the status notification refers to the vagrant as a "lowborn human", which suggests that it results from the vagrant's genetic stock rather than their socioeconomic status. I always found it strange that vagrants provide less nourishment to vampires than wealthy people of good breeding, but the same is not true of sex workers or gang-bangers. While obviously not all vagrants, sex workers or gang-bangers are "lowborn humans", I would have thought they'd be disproportionately likely to meet that description compared to, for instance, a wealthy dude with a fancy watch and a flash car.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Dewicking Not So Different as it is now a disambig.


** I would be inclined to agree with you, except that Nines (and all the Anarchs, really) are NotSoDifferent from the Camarilla as they think in terms of their attitudes. Nines gets every bit as petty and pissed off as [=LaCroix=] does if you even ''dare'' question his motives or compare him to them, even though, just like [=LaCroix=], he basically spends the whole game getting you to be his errand boy. He probably won't be all "call the blood hunt" just because you told him where he could stick it, but he'll likely be sore about it for a while.

to:

** I would be inclined to agree with you, except that Nines (and all the Anarchs, really) are NotSoDifferent not so different from the Camarilla as they think in terms of their attitudes. Nines gets every bit as petty and pissed off as [=LaCroix=] does if you even ''dare'' question his motives or compare him to them, even though, just like [=LaCroix=], he basically spends the whole game getting you to be his errand boy. He probably won't be all "call the blood hunt" just because you told him where he could stick it, but he'll likely be sore about it for a while.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Yep. just because Jack is {{AffablyEvil}} doesn't mean he is going to care much about who dies.

to:

*** Yep. just because Jack is {{AffablyEvil}} AffablyEvil doesn't mean he is going to care much about who dies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Yep. just because Jack is https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AffablyEvil doesn't mean he is going to care much about who dies.

to:

*** Yep. just because Jack is https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AffablyEvil {{AffablyEvil}} doesn't mean he is going to care much about who dies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Because Ash was already a celebrity. Nothing to be done about that. Better he stops doing movies, appearing on talk shows etc and slowly slides from public knowledge ''then'' vanishes rather than vanish at the height of his fame when everyone and their dog will be looking for him. You're a nody, more or less, you vanishing will attract very little attention, so that's what happened. However now that you ''have'' vanished you reappearing will result in questions you can't safely answer.

to:

* Because Ash was already a celebrity. Nothing to be done about that. Better he stops doing movies, appearing on talk shows etc and slowly slides from public knowledge ''then'' vanishes rather than vanish at the height of his fame when everyone and their dog will be looking for him. You're a nody, nobody, more or less, you vanishing will attract very little attention, so that's what happened. However now that you ''have'' vanished you reappearing will result in questions you can't safely answer.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sabbat is supposedly composed by Tzimisce and Lasombra. So why not even one single Lasombra get mentioned in game?
* Because the game's portrayal of the Sabbat is pretty primitive. Aside from Andrei, it's pretty much restricted to Shovelheads, because they're the bad guys anyway. There is one point where you're attacked by Lasombra women in the Sabbat HQ though, however it is not elaborated on. Then again, they also had a Tremere Antitribu, a kind that supposedly died out. Also, it's not like they HAVE to show all clans. We never saw a Ravnos or Setite, after all.
** Also the Lasombra aren't exactly foot soldiers. They're very much in line with the Ventrue or Toreador of the Camarilla in that they are more often behind the scenes doing their work. While it's odd that we never see them it's perfectly explainable by simply hand-waving it as us only seeing the rank and file antitribu types in the game.
** Come to think of it, even of those we only get to see the Brujah and Gangrel, even though the real core of the Sabbat consists of the antitribu of most Clans. Yeah, the game didn't exactly give much thought to the Sabbat here.

to:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sabbat is supposedly composed by Tzimisce and Lasombra. So why not even one single Lasombra get mentioned in game?
in-game?
* Because the game's portrayal of the Sabbat is pretty primitive. Aside from Andrei, it's pretty much restricted to Shovelheads, because they're the bad guys anyway. There is one point where you're attacked by Lasombra women in the Sabbat HQ though, however it is not elaborated on. Then again, they also had a Tremere Antitribu, ''antitribu'', a kind that supposedly died out. Also, it's not like they HAVE to show all clans. We never saw a Ravnos or Setite, after all.
** Also the Lasombra aren't exactly foot soldiers. They're very much in line with the Ventrue or Toreador of the Camarilla in that they are more often behind the scenes doing their work. While it's odd that we never see them it's perfectly explainable by simply hand-waving it as us only seeing the rank and file antitribu ''antitribu'' types in the game.
** Come to think of it, even of those we only get to see the Brujah and Gangrel, even though the real core of the Sabbat consists of the antitribu ''antitribu'' of most Clans. Yeah, the game didn't exactly give much thought to the Sabbat here.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*If she developed the split personality before being Embraced, it's possible that her father "mistaking her for Therese" happened when the Jeanette personality was in control while she was sleeping.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In Bloodlines, the Nosferatu changed its appearance and looked like the PC Toreador, once in the execution he returned to its real appearance. That was how it managed to embrace somebody else.

to:

** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKitSXWtZNA In Bloodlines, Bloodlines]], the Nosferatu changed its appearance and looked like the PC Toreador, once in the execution he s/he returned to its real appearance. That was how it managed to embrace somebody else.

Added: 71

Changed: 225

Removed: 316

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Thank you for the answers. It makes more sense now. Yeah, I'm one of those who have only played the video game and have next to no knowlegde about the outside canon.


** Malkavians are also all about mysteries and secrets, hiding fits in.



** As for Ventrue with fortitude: it's in the name. In-game the use of fortitude is basically a physical defence buff, but in the tabletop game, it defends against ''everything'' including physical blows and social coercion. Ventrue are defined as leaders, it makes sense that they'd be equipped with an ability that would allow them to curb or bypass manipulation.
*** Plus the Ventrue are ''not'' the leaders working in the shadows, at least not to other vampires. There are public leaders. Having a spur-of-the-moment defence against assassins etc is a smart thing for the guy on the throne. As for the Malks and Obfuscate they're all about mysteries and secrets, hiding fits in.

to:

** As for Ventrue with fortitude: it's in the name. In-game the use of fortitude is basically a physical defence buff, but in the tabletop game, it defends against ''everything'' including physical blows and social coercion. Ventrue are defined as leaders, it makes sense that they'd be equipped with an ability that would allow them to curb or bypass manipulation. \n*** Plus the Ventrue are ''not'' the leaders working in the shadows, at least not to other vampires. There are public leaders. Having a spur-of-the-moment defence against assassins etc is a smart thing for the guy on the throne. As for the Malks and Obfuscate they're all about mysteries and secrets, hiding fits in.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[foldercontrol]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* To combine the two the Ankh (originally a symbol of immortality in Ancient Egypt) symbolises vampires in general. As such a character casting a shadow over all vampires I'd guess is [[spoiler: the cabbie/Caine.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Do the Anarchs strike you as organised? Damsel has asked you to spy but that's her thing, not some decision made by the basically non-existent Anarch hierarchy. Nines and Issac might agree on some (not all ) political philosophy but they don't actually work together until pushed into a corner. As for why you can't tell him he A: probably wouldn't believe you and B: is almost certainly being watched by the Camarilla.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Ash would reject his help, direct or otherwise, and he knows that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Plus the Ventrue are ''not'' the leaders working in the shadows, at least not to other vampires. There are public leaders. Having a spur-of-the-moment defence against assassins etc is a smart thing for the guy on the throne. As for the Malks and Obfuscate they're all about mysteries and secrets, hiding fits in.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Then the eyewitness is discredited or killed, the evidence goes missing, the data is deleted, memories are altered by Dominate etc. Not saying that it's realistic mind you but the position of the Old World Of Darkness is that the vampires have too much power (mundane and magical) and influence to be easily exposed. Also it's not just them; pretty much all the supernatural factions are working to conceal the existence of any magical anything. That said several of the End Times scenarios that closed out the game lines do feature the supernatural being outed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The Malkavian: Auspec and Dementation? Makes sense. But how does Obfuscate come in, with The Malkavian being a foreseeing loony?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Well, to be frank, it goes back to the original tabletop game, it wasn't really the devs call. But to explain the probable reasoning there;
** Toreador are all about beauty above all else, which is why they trend towards art and seduction. SuperSpeed requires grace, and beyond that, it's simply a big visual spectacle. Both are things very suitable for a clan highly defined by aesthetics.
** As for Ventrue with fortitude: it's in the name. In-game the use of fortitude is basically a physical defence buff, but in the tabletop game, it defends against ''everything'' including physical blows and social coercion. Ventrue are defined as leaders, it makes sense that they'd be equipped with an ability that would allow them to curb or bypass manipulation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]
[[folder: The existence of vampires ''will'' come out]]
* The Anarchs and the Camarilla does a tremendous job in keeping their existence a secret from mortals. While the game came out before the rise of major social media like Facebook and online mass surveillance, there was still a lot of talk being careful of being recorded. With the eventual rise, it's only a matter of time before one uncareful Nosferatu flegdling, Gangrel with Animalism or one failed feeding attempt too many before it will be made public. That then?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]
[[folder: Odd Disiplines]]
* I find some disiplines choices for some clans odd.
** The Toreador: Auspec and Presence? Makes sense. But how does Celery come in, with The Toreador being the artistic and persuasive type?
** The Ventrue: Dominate and Presence? Makes sense. But how does Fortitude come in, with The Ventrue being the leaders working in the shadows and prefer sending underlings to do their bidding?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** That was added by a fan patch, so what happened in the original game is still up in the air. They might have lied as an attempt to get rid of her - the context is that the player asks if she's been told he's gone, to which Skelter answers "Man she's been told he was ''dead!''"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* You may simply not meet the actual Elder donor of the blood, with them being elsewhere of dead, and thus not forced to display that bond. After all, judging by canonical texts, in this world you cannot shake a stick without hitting 2-3 Elders in the process.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


*** Admittedly, I have only very little knowledge about WtA, buuut ... both it and VtM are RPGs. Whos to say that the Garou fought in Griffin Park isn't one who has just leveled much, much more than the player character and is therefore much more powerful?

to:

*** Admittedly, I have only very little knowledge about WtA, [=WtA, buuut ... both it and VtM are RPGs.RPGs=]. Whos to say that the Garou fought in Griffin Park isn't one who has just leveled much, much more than the player character and is therefore much more powerful?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Most likely because the sarcophagus is held there. Not because of its historical value - given how interested supernatural parties are with the sarcophagus, it's not a stretch that somebody darranged this behind the scenes. However, guarding a historical artefact that was part of a crime scene would serve as a good pretext to sell it to museum employees.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** There's no change of appearance if one becomes a Toreador, it's just that they tend to embrace people who are already gorgeous (though it depends on what the Toreador finds gorgeous) and make efforts to appear proper and dignified. The Toreador PC was simply attractive before the embrace.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Nines was also apparently involved in the sarcophagus plot (or at least aware of it) according to some of the spin-off novels that continued the canon, which kinda changes the sarcophagus ploy from just Jack's scheme to an Anarch scheme. The idea that someone told you offscreen in at least the Anarch ending seems the most likely, and jells with the "gift from the Anarchs" line better than the PC simply assuming.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Why doesn't Isaac send anyone to help Ash? The game plays it like he's just being cowardly for not helping Ash, but it's not like he'd have to go himself. He's baron, he's got money, he's got employees (one of which being the goon who sends the Fledgling his way in the first place), he could send someone or multiple someones to help Ash. Yet he refuses to out of misplaced fear that he'd have to personally fight off the hunters? It doesn't make any sense, Ash even assumes he sent ''you'', meaning the possibility is very much on the table and inline with his usual tactics.

to:

Why doesn't Isaac send anyone to help Ash? The game plays it like he's just being cowardly for not helping Ash, but it's not like he'd have to go himself. He's baron, he's got money, he's got employees (one of which being the goon who sends the Fledgling his way in the first place), he could send someone or multiple someones to help Ash. Yet he refuses to out of misplaced fear that he'd have to personally fight off the hunters? hunters or reveal himself to them? It doesn't make any sense, Ash even assumes he sent ''you'', meaning the possibility is very much on the table and inline with his usual tactics.

Added: 634

Changed: 21

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[folder: I work for the Camarilla as a spy.]]

to:

[[folder: I work for the Camarilla as a spy.]]because I'm spying on them]]


Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]
[[folder: Just send someone else to help Ash]]
Why doesn't Isaac send anyone to help Ash? The game plays it like he's just being cowardly for not helping Ash, but it's not like he'd have to go himself. He's baron, he's got money, he's got employees (one of which being the goon who sends the Fledgling his way in the first place), he could send someone or multiple someones to help Ash. Yet he refuses to out of misplaced fear that he'd have to personally fight off the hunters? It doesn't make any sense, Ash even assumes he sent ''you'', meaning the possibility is very much on the table and inline with his usual tactics.

Top