History Headscratchers / VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines

24th Mar '18 5:11:25 PM nombretomado
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Not a very good theory but decent enough. And that's before even using "canon says he isn't Caine". Heck, for that matter canon says Smiling Jack acted quite unlike himself after the encounter. Some could say [[MindRape Emotion Raped by Presence]]. As, you know, a Setite could and would do, if it suits him. And hey, he even got the legendary Brujah to do some gardening - bonus! Even a Malkavian could pull that off with [[MindRape Dementation]], in support of my first theory. ItJustBugsMe.

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Not a very good theory but decent enough. And that's before even using "canon says he isn't Caine". Heck, for that matter canon says Smiling Jack acted quite unlike himself after the encounter. Some could say [[MindRape Emotion Raped by Presence]]. As, you know, a Setite could and would do, if it suits him. And hey, he even got the legendary Brujah to do some gardening - bonus! Even a Malkavian could pull that off with [[MindRape Dementation]], in support of my first theory. ItJustBugsMe.



* ItJustBugsMe when people consider a single piece of work as gospel truth in a [[TheVerse universe]] that by its own internal rules allows '''anything''' (up to and including entire rulebooks) within its canon to be solemnly and summarily ignored whenever an author feels like doing so. It doesn't matter if the Gehenna novel said that Caine was sleeping somewhere or another during VTMB's timeframe -- if the game authors feel like saying he was in LA driving a fledgling around in a cab, then that's where he was ''inside that particular piece of work''. The Gehenna rulebook itself has FOUR completely different end-of-the-world scenarios, and each has wildly different information regarding Caine's whereabouts, activities, intentions, etc. And in addition to that, that book's appendix (called "The First Vampire") specifically deals with how to use Caine in a Gehenna setting/story. To sum it up: Caine is such an otherworldly entity that he can only be used as a plot device (as opposed to a regular character) and, as such, ''has'' to be "adapted" to each particular Gehenna story -- this can take '''any''' form, from having him being the übermaster of the Jyhad, to having died a long time ago, to ''not having existed at all''. ItJustBugsMe whenever someone chooses to ignore all that and shun any conflicting theories dealing to Caine with "it says so in the Gehenna novel" as their only argument for doing so.

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* ItJustBugsMe when people People consider a single piece of work as gospel truth in a [[TheVerse universe]] that by its own internal rules allows '''anything''' (up to and including entire rulebooks) within its canon to be solemnly and summarily ignored whenever an author feels like doing so. It doesn't matter if the Gehenna novel said that Caine was sleeping somewhere or another during VTMB's timeframe -- if the game authors feel like saying he was in LA driving a fledgling around in a cab, then that's where he was ''inside that particular piece of work''. The Gehenna rulebook itself has FOUR completely different end-of-the-world scenarios, and each has wildly different information regarding Caine's whereabouts, activities, intentions, etc. And in addition to that, that book's appendix (called "The First Vampire") specifically deals with how to use Caine in a Gehenna setting/story. To sum it up: Caine is such an otherworldly entity that he can only be used as a plot device (as opposed to a regular character) and, as such, ''has'' to be "adapted" to each particular Gehenna story -- this can take '''any''' form, from having him being the übermaster of the Jyhad, to having died a long time ago, to ''not having existed at all''. ItJustBugsMe whenever Whenever someone chooses to ignore all that and shun any conflicting theories dealing to Caine with "it says so in the Gehenna novel" as their only argument for doing so.
24th Mar '18 5:11:10 PM nombretomado
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ItJustBugsMe that people keep considering the cabbie to be Caine purely based on the name of the folder that contains his sound files. Yes, he seems to be a fairly powerful vampire. Yes, it is heavily implied that he, in fact, is considerably strong. Yes, it's cool to think it ''is'' Caine. Yes, the Malk character utters something about it at the end of the game. No, nothing aside from the sound folder directly says it ''is'' Caine. And even that's not absolutely positive (assuming Troika didn't just forget to rename the files). I believe it is ''more'' plausible that the cabbie is a low generation Malkavian, perhaps even a Methuselah: powerful? Check. File names? He ''believes'' he is Caine. Or that is his name. Or he just took up this as a pseudonym. Either way - check. The Malk PC freaking out? For one, when did the Malkavian become utterly reliable? The PC has conversations with a stop sign and with the TV, so that doesn't make for exactly a sound opinion on his part. Also, if the cabbie ''is'' a Malkavian Methuselah, the Malk PC has every right to refer to him as a Dark Father (IIRC, the PC doesn't even call him a Dark Father ''per se'' but something else that implies it). In addition, if the cabbie is a powerful Malkavian who really believes he is Caine, that can very "fool" the PC. That, and high levels Obfuscate. So, back to the PC comment - check.\\

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ItJustBugsMe that people People keep considering the cabbie to be Caine purely based on the name of the folder that contains his sound files. Yes, he seems to be a fairly powerful vampire. Yes, it is heavily implied that he, in fact, is considerably strong. Yes, it's cool to think it ''is'' Caine. Yes, the Malk character utters something about it at the end of the game. No, nothing aside from the sound folder directly says it ''is'' Caine. And even that's not absolutely positive (assuming Troika didn't just forget to rename the files). I believe it is ''more'' plausible that the cabbie is a low generation Malkavian, perhaps even a Methuselah: powerful? Check. File names? He ''believes'' he is Caine. Or that is his name. Or he just took up this as a pseudonym. Either way - check. The Malk PC freaking out? For one, when did the Malkavian become utterly reliable? The PC has conversations with a stop sign and with the TV, so that doesn't make for exactly a sound opinion on his part. Also, if the cabbie ''is'' a Malkavian Methuselah, the Malk PC has every right to refer to him as a Dark Father (IIRC, the PC doesn't even call him a Dark Father ''per se'' but something else that implies it). In addition, if the cabbie is a powerful Malkavian who really believes he is Caine, that can very "fool" the PC. That, and high levels Obfuscate. So, back to the PC comment - check.\\
16th Mar '18 9:04:08 AM DoPo
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** I don't think she does - however, she does certainly carry herself as one.
16th Mar '18 9:02:49 AM DoPo
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Assuming the clan you're playing doesn't have Potence, how did [=LaCroix=] expect you to single-handedly carry that gigantic sarcophagus out of the museum, particularly when he was encouraging you to be stealthy about it? For that matter, how ''did'' you carry it out of the Giovanni mansion single-handed, particularly if you snuck in?

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Assuming the clan you're playing doesn't have Potence, how did [=LaCroix=] expect you to single-handedly carry that gigantic sarcophagus out of the museum, particularly when he was encouraging you to be stealthy about it? For that matter, how ''did'' you carry it out of the Giovanni mansion single-handed, particularly if you snuck in?in?
* For how you carried it - there is a truck waiting for you. Presumably the Prince did send a couple of vampires with Potence to give you a hand or something. After all he does *want* the sarcophagus - unlike the previous missions he sends you on, he does care if you fail this one, it makes sense he'd help. Although if you did fail before getting the sarcophagus, perhaps you could be written off and nothing of value (to [=LaCroix=]) would be lost. As for how you snuck the sarcophagus out...I don't think there is a decent explanation. At best, perhaps the Prince called a boone or something from the Giovanni to allow you access to leave but that's a bit of a stretch - after all, he would have been able to do that before. Another option is that he sent his goons who would have "taken care" of the party. Which is also a bit of a stretch.
26th Feb '18 5:50:32 PM ErikModi
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*** Ghouls are also walking Masquerade violations, literally. They are mortals who know that vampires exist. The fact they know this because a vampire decided they'd make a good superpowered servant is not relevant. They exist pretty much only as long as whoever's in charge decides to look the other way on this particular type of Masquerade violation. Now, the fact they're blood bound and will do pretty much anything their domitor says to get their next fix mitigates these problems somewhat, but it still comes down to the fact that this is a mortal who has knowledge of vampires and no concrete reason to keep that knowledge to themselves (provided they're young enough they can survive running out of blood in a month). Answers both "why can't the PC have multiple ghouls" and "why can't Patty be dealt with non-lethally" questions: If the PC starts collecting too many ghouls, the Prince can rule him/her a Masquerade violation and execute the lot of them. If Patty becomes too troublesome, the Prince can execute her and whoever made her for being Masquerade violations.
26th Feb '18 5:33:28 PM ErikModi
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*** You can only have one Blood Bond at a time, so assuming Mercurio was Blood Bonded to [=LaCroix=] (almost a given if [=LaCroix=] is feeding him blood every month to keep him a ghoul) then he couldn't be bonded to the PC no matter how much or how often he drank from him/her, unless the bond with [=LaCroix=] was broken first. Granted, taking a lot of blood often from a different vampire could probably weaken or break the bond, but that would still take lots of time, beyond the scope of the game. More likely, Mercurio knew he had enough vampire blood in his system already to heal his wounds, so didn't trouble the PC over it. His whole scene is basically one of AmusingInjuries, after a fashion.
23rd Feb '18 8:06:58 AM ErikModi
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** Blood replaces all of a living person's drives and desires in a vampire. The need for blood is the need for food, water, sex, comfort, companionship, love, safety, security, and everything else all wrapped up in one, and drinking blood feels like fulfilling all of those at the same time. ([[DependingOnTheWriter In some versions of the source material, at least]].) A vampire is capable of having sex, but it doesn't fulfill a need or desire for them, unless they take blood at the same time. And sex is actually ''very'' useful for that purpose, since these vampires have the KissOfTheVampire trope, if a vampire bites someone while having sex with them, all they'll really remember is ''having some really goddammned good sex!'' [=LaCroix=] is more likely just a rather prudish sort, who dismisses using sex to get blood, and since Ventrue have Dominate, which basically lets them force a mortal to let the vampire feed off them then erase their memory of the event afterwards, he likely has no need of resorting to such ''gauche'' subterfuge to feed.
23rd Feb '18 7:53:07 AM ErikModi
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** That, or RightThroughHisPants.
9th Dec '17 7:29:42 PM Motherdragon64
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* I may have just missed or forgotten a line of dialogue, but when did Therese ever claim to be a Ventrue?
11th Nov '17 7:53:52 PM sdsmo
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Assuming the clan you're playing doesn't have Potence, how did [=LaCroix=] expect you to carry that gigantic sarcophagus out of the museum, particularly when he was encouraging you to be stealthy about it? For that matter, how ''did'' you carry it out of the Giovanni mansion, particularly if you snuck in?

to:

Assuming the clan you're playing doesn't have Potence, how did [=LaCroix=] expect you to single-handedly carry that gigantic sarcophagus out of the museum, particularly when he was encouraging you to be stealthy about it? For that matter, how ''did'' you carry it out of the Giovanni mansion, mansion single-handed, particularly if you snuck in?
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