History Headscratchers / VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines

12th Jun '17 5:57:12 PM DoPo
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* But he even speaks through the guard, and in his own voice. The guard seems to be thinking and acting as [=Lacroix=], which, if you look at the White Wolf wiki page for Dominate, is that exact level 10 skill.

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* ** But he even speaks through the guard, and in his own voice. The guard seems to be thinking and acting as [=Lacroix=], which, if you look at the White Wolf wiki page for Dominate, is that exact level 10 skill.skill.
*** No, that power would more or less make a copy of you. Not to mention it's "old" - the level 10 powers listed come from old supplements. At any rate, there is nothing suggesting that's what [=LaCroix=] is doing - at level 5 Dominate, he could simply possess the body of the guard and still accomplish the same effect. Here is a description of Possession from the [=VtM=] rulebook:
[[quoteblock]]***** Possession\\
At this level of Dominate, the force of the Kindredís psyche is such that it can utterly supplant the mind of a mortal subject. Speaking isnít required, although the vampire must capture the victimís gaze. During the psychic struggle, the contestantsí eyes are locked on one another. \\
\\
Once the Kindred crushes the subjectís mind, the vampire moves his own consciousness into the victimís body and controls it as easily as he uses his own. The mortal falls into a mental fugue while under possession. She is aware of events only in a distorted, dreamlike fashion. In turn, the vampireís mind focuses entirely on controlling his mortal subject. His immortal body lies in a torpid state, defenseless against any actions made toward it.[[/quoteblock]]
12th Jun '17 5:40:55 PM thelastdoor666
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* That is incorrect: ''Possession'' is the level 5 Dominate effect in the tabletop game. It allows the vampire to take control of another's body entirely, which is exactly what [=LaCroix=] seemed to be doing. A level 10 Dominate would be of incredible magnitude - mind control a city or all members of your clan, for example.

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* That is incorrect: ''Possession'' is the level 5 Dominate effect in the tabletop game. It allows the vampire to take control of another's body entirely, which is exactly what [=LaCroix=] seemed to be doing. A level 10 Dominate would be of incredible magnitude - mind control a city or all members of your clan, for example.example.
* But he even speaks through the guard, and in his own voice. The guard seems to be thinking and acting as [=Lacroix=], which, if you look at the White Wolf wiki page for Dominate, is that exact level 10 skill.
11th Jun '17 9:28:08 AM DoPo
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In the final segment of the game, LaCroix Dominates a security guard to suicide bomb you. This would be fine if it was just a command, but the guard is under [=LaCroix=]'s total control. In actual Vampire, this is a level 10 skill only accessible by Antediluvians, And judging by how easily you take him down in the ending, LaCroix is no Antediluvian, so how the hell did he use this skill?

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In the final segment of the game, LaCroix [=LaCroix=] Dominates a security guard to suicide bomb you. This would be fine if it was just a command, but the guard is under [=LaCroix=]'s total control. In actual Vampire, this is a level 10 skill only accessible by Antediluvians, And judging by how easily you take him down in the ending, LaCroix [=LaCroix=] is no Antediluvian, so how the hell did he use this skill?
11th Jun '17 9:25:24 AM DoPo
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* That is incorrect: *Possession* is the level 5 Dominate effect in the tabletop game. It allows the vampire to take control of another's body entirely, which is exactly what [=LaCroix=] seemed to be doing. A level 10 Dominate would be of incredible magnitude - mind control a city or all members of your clan, for example.

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* That is incorrect: *Possession* ''Possession'' is the level 5 Dominate effect in the tabletop game. It allows the vampire to take control of another's body entirely, which is exactly what [=LaCroix=] seemed to be doing. A level 10 Dominate would be of incredible magnitude - mind control a city or all members of your clan, for example.
11th Jun '17 9:24:47 AM DoPo
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* That is incorrect: *Possession* is the level 5 Domination effect in the tabletop game. It allows the vampire to take control of another's body entirely, which is exactly what [=LaCroix=] seemed to be doing. A level 10 Domination would be of incredible magnitude - mind control a city or perhaps all members of your clan, for example.

to:

* That is incorrect: *Possession* is the level 5 Domination Dominate effect in the tabletop game. It allows the vampire to take control of another's body entirely, which is exactly what [=LaCroix=] seemed to be doing. A level 10 Domination Dominate would be of incredible magnitude - mind control a city or perhaps all members of your clan, for example.
11th Jun '17 9:23:55 AM DoPo
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In the final segment of the game, LaCroix Dominates a security guard to suicide bomb you. This would be fine if it was just a command, but the guard is under LaCroix's total control. In actual Vampire, this is a level 10 skill only accessible by Antediluvians, And judging by how easily you take him down in the ending, LaCroix is no Antediluvian, so how the hell did he use this skill?

to:

In the final segment of the game, LaCroix Dominates a security guard to suicide bomb you. This would be fine if it was just a command, but the guard is under LaCroix's [=LaCroix=]'s total control. In actual Vampire, this is a level 10 skill only accessible by Antediluvians, And judging by how easily you take him down in the ending, LaCroix is no Antediluvian, so how the hell did he use this skill?skill?
* That is incorrect: *Possession* is the level 5 Domination effect in the tabletop game. It allows the vampire to take control of another's body entirely, which is exactly what [=LaCroix=] seemed to be doing. A level 10 Domination would be of incredible magnitude - mind control a city or perhaps all members of your clan, for example.
30th May '17 3:01:40 PM thelastdoor666
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Interesting to note that [=LaCroix=] tries to use the player character the same way the Camarilla are using him.

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Interesting to note that [=LaCroix=] tries to use the player character the same way the Camarilla are using him.him.

In the final segment of the game, LaCroix Dominates a security guard to suicide bomb you. This would be fine if it was just a command, but the guard is under LaCroix's total control. In actual Vampire, this is a level 10 skill only accessible by Antediluvians, And judging by how easily you take him down in the ending, LaCroix is no Antediluvian, so how the hell did he use this skill?
23rd May '17 3:17:50 PM razorrozar7
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* You have to remember that they're Malkavian, and anything they say has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's entirely possible that Therese just eventually got fed up with being molested and killed her father, with Jeanette having nothing to do with it.
8th Nov '16 10:16:36 AM dlchen145
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*** Newer Counter: You know here is the single biggest problem with your argument; you are listing off all the traits that makes the PC great at being on the front lines to justify taking them as far away from the front lines as problem. You fought the Kuei-jin off, that is an argument to keep you on the front, fighting off reprisals, not sitting back telling others who couldn't get the job done before you to do it. Let's look at the Brujah Archon Theo Bell; he's an utter {{Badass}} who slaughters Sabbat during his segments in the clan book novels, way beyond what you do in the game. But he is not given the Princedom, nor is he even considered for it. He's kept on as an Archon because that is what he's good at; actually fighting on the front lines, not sitting behind a desk micromanaging. Now look at the Princes, not just in Bloodlines but in the novels; some of them can hold their own in a fist fight, but all of them are administrators, politicians, people whose contributions to the Camarilla aren't with (direct) violence. Imagine if a soldier ran for President on the platform "we're at war with (X) and (Y), we need someone with experience fighting them on the ground to run the country." "Mr. Soldier man, what are your qualifications?" "Well I'm an utter badass at killing (X) and (Y) on the front lines. I mean seriously, I'm a better ass kicker than anyone else in the area. I've more or less single-handedly wiped them out for the time being." "So...your plan to save us from (X) and (Y), is to remove yourself from the environment where you were head and shoulders better than the rest of your peers, so you can command the people who you've previously established as your inferiors in the ass-kicking department, to go and do the job that they failed to do before you arrived, and will most probably fail to do after you leave?"

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*** Newer Counter: You know here is the single biggest problem with your argument; you are listing off all the traits that makes the PC great at being on the front lines to justify taking them as far away from the front lines as problem. You fought the Kuei-jin off, that is an argument to keep you on the front, fighting off reprisals, not sitting back telling others who couldn't get the job done before you to do it. Let's look at the Brujah Archon Theo Bell; he's an utter {{Badass}} badass who slaughters Sabbat during his segments in the clan book novels, way beyond what you do in the game. But he is not given the Princedom, nor is he even considered for it. He's kept on as an Archon because that is what he's good at; actually fighting on the front lines, not sitting behind a desk micromanaging. Now look at the Princes, not just in Bloodlines but in the novels; some of them can hold their own in a fist fight, but all of them are administrators, politicians, people whose contributions to the Camarilla aren't with (direct) violence. Imagine if a soldier ran for President on the platform "we're at war with (X) and (Y), we need someone with experience fighting them on the ground to run the country." "Mr. Soldier man, what are your qualifications?" "Well I'm an utter badass at killing (X) and (Y) on the front lines. I mean seriously, I'm a better ass kicker than anyone else in the area. I've more or less single-handedly wiped them out for the time being." "So...your plan to save us from (X) and (Y), is to remove yourself from the environment where you were head and shoulders better than the rest of your peers, so you can command the people who you've previously established as your inferiors in the ass-kicking department, to go and do the job that they failed to do before you arrived, and will most probably fail to do after you leave?"
2nd Oct '16 6:47:34 AM DoPo
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* It's not really ''just'' [=LaCroix=]there as the sole representative. It's him, his bodyguard turned Sheriff (who is quite formidable) a Chantry of Tremere (again, formidable), as well as any of the other Camarilla vampires (a lot show up towards the end). So, there are lots of Camarilla presence, in general. Then, there is all the deals struck with the "native" Anarchs around there - the Nosferatu[[note]]Even Gary double deals with the Anarchs and ultimately doesn't hold either of the political allegiances as that important, the Cam did enlist him, so he is regarded as an ally[[/note]], the Voerman sisters[[note]]or at least Therese, don't think Jeanette really cares about politics that much to express a preference.[[/note]], as well as any of the other resources the members control and have access to.\\

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* It's not really ''just'' [=LaCroix=]there [=LaCroix=] there as the sole representative. It's him, his bodyguard turned Sheriff (who is quite formidable) a Chantry of Tremere (again, formidable), as well as any of the other Camarilla vampires (a lot show up towards the end). So, there are lots of Camarilla presence, in general. Then, there is all the deals struck with the "native" Anarchs around there - the Nosferatu[[note]]Even Gary double deals with the Anarchs and ultimately doesn't hold either of the political allegiances as that important, the Cam did enlist him, so he is regarded as an ally[[/note]], the Voerman sisters[[note]]or at least Therese, don't think Jeanette really cares about politics that much to express a preference.[[/note]], as well as any of the other resources the members control and have access to.\\
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