History Headscratchers / TheGreatDivorce

* Why is God running the bus from one specific location (town centre) in Hell? And is the bus trip the Hell Ghosts last chance at salvation? It’s never explicitly stated as such, but in the case of lost souls such as Frank Smith, it may as well be. Because that’s an insane distance for him to walk back to, given that he’s shrunk down to nearly the minuscule quantum-foam level of Heaven’s reality.
** Going from the headscratcher about the eternal sunrise "all moments are contained in this moment", there may not really be a "too far to walk to reach the bus in time" - as long as someone ''wants to'' take the bus, they'll get there eventually.

** While in-universe the bus trip is the hell ghosts' only chance at escaping hell, there's no mention of them only being able to take it once - on the contrary, one of the ghosts who are on the bus ride along with the dreamer says he's expected and shall be met presently (one can only assume by the Bright Ones). As someone wrote a few headscratchers up: they're not given up on until they give up on themselves.
* CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot: This one is unlikely as none of the Hell Ghosts are remotely [[UngratefulTownsfolk likely]] to do so (all any of them ever do is make mean comments in his general direction) - but considering his [[ItWasHisSled not so secret]] identity, what would happen if any of the ghosts decided to have a chat with the bus driver after reaching their destination? Would they [[Catch22Dilemma already]] have to be halfway to becoming a Person to get the idea of thanking him for bringing them and be (most likely) additionally welcomed with the offer of making them all of a Person, so the point is more or less moot? Or if someone had gotten the idea to outright ask for this?

*** ExtremelyShortTimespan: possibly - making this the opposite of the headscratcher below. Not only because in the end it turns out to have been AllJustADream; but InUniverse, this could be a [[GeniusBonus reference to]] one of the more obscure bits of Christian theology. If so, then the whole story takes place in one night: the night from [[EitherOrTitle Holy]] Saturday [=/=] Great Sabbath [=/=] [[IHaveManyNames Black]] Saturday evening to Easter Sunday morning; when after dying on Good Friday, Christ descended into hell to get the damned [[DeliveranceFromDamnation out]] before rising from the dead at Easter.

** As far as I read it the solid blocks are the narrator's integration into the last vestiges of the dream (while waking up) of the books he pulled down when he fell off the chair that he'd been sleeping in falling all around him - they needn't be part of the story proper at all:
* However since this answer sounds like a copt-out: the two questions you ask ''themselves'' seem something of a SequelHook - the dreamer[=/=]narrator is no longer around to see this right now because he's woken up; but a later story [[WhatCouldHaveBeen had it been written]] might have taken up on it. The narrator didn't get crushed, obviously, it woke him: there might also be ways to protect the other ghosts from getting crushed, or to rescue them from hell after nightfall. The impression I got when reading the story was that the dream's setting is somehow outside of both time and space - a moment frozen in time where anything that happens doesn't take any time at all[[note]]it's moments before the sunrise for ''hours'', and this ''is'' the author that wrote the trope namer for NarniaTime[[/note]] - so that future (when day comes in the Valley of the Shadow of Life and night falls in hell) may ''never'' come, because not having time this place doesn't ''have'' a future. The situation, and the choice, may ''always'' be the same for all eternity. As the Burning One tells the ghost with the Lizard:
* Where are Satan and his fallen angels? It is shown that the more evil and self-centered the being, the tinier they get. Did they literally implode into nothingness? If so, how are they still able to do mischief in life then?
** They needn't even to ever have existed in story for it to work - as the whole point is that the damned [[SelfInflictedHell make their own hell]] unprompted by any outside influence; and are unable to leave it behind unless they leave their own evil and self-centeredness [[EpiphanicPrison behind with it]]. It fits the story even better if we human beings "do our own mischief in life" and there ''are'' no demons in the first place, never were.

[[folder:Salvation is an outrage - and it's all God's fault]]

* Some of these things are ''really'' bad. For example, the main difference between the Roman Emperor Trajan (who is mentioned in passing as one of the Hell Ghosts who managed to give up his self and stay in Heaven) and someone like Stalin is technology - and that's really it. It's not that Trajan didn't want to do exactly what the 20th century dictators did - make his own idea of good and evil absolute and totalitarian. Had he had the means of the 20th century[[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide ...]]
* As someone stated on the main page under KarmaHoudini: Some Bright Ones are exactly this by most measures. It's a severe stumbling block for some ghosts (most notably the Big Ghost whose guide got to Heaven via deathbed conversion). The point Lewis is making is that everyone in heaven is a KarmaHoudini: no one person ''deserves'' to be there more than another - as in the end, no one does. The ones who make it are those who realise they'll never earn it on their own, and accept it as a gift.

** Seriously, though: it's ''heavily'' implied that showing the Big Ghost the absolute worst thing he can imagine, a murderer who got to Heaven, is sort of the ''point''. (And additionally it's showing ''how'' Len didn't just go there "anyway" - it's a bit downplayed, as the Big Ghost doesn't register it, but Len mentions nearly offhandedly that the price was giving up his ''self'': "I had to, after the murder" - showing the Big Ghost the only way anyone can get in.)
** Speaking of "worst you can imagine": Heaven's whole approach reminds one of people who aren't evil, but fearful - fear so bad that it's an anxiety disorder. The way they can be healed of that fear does not sound at all like something for the fearful itself, and rather counter-intuitive: it's done by confrontation with exactly the thing that is causing them the fear in the first place, so that they can learn to let go of the fear. In-story, the same method is used not for fear, but for evil. Heaven is very plainly and openly GoodIsNotNice and CruelToBeKind about all this in a way reminiscent of [[Literature/WitchesAbroad Granny Weatherwax]] of Discworld fame: "she didn't do good for people, she did right by them" (while her sister Lily makes their life a fairy tale come true with them as the main character; which ends BADLY even if the ending is supposed to be a happy one). That the Hell Ghosts can't really be eased into it instead is commented on by the Burning Angel, who notes that the gradual process is no use (maybe it's not even possible) when curing the Ghost with the Lizard. It's quite probably that the same applies to ''all'' Hell Ghosts, including the Big Ghost. The reason for the brutally honest CruelToBeKind way of going about it is explained (sort of) by [=MacDonald=].
* That being said, once someone ''realises'' they need help, and by acknowledging that to themselves actually opens up enough to ''let'' themselves be helped; then they can and will have any and every help they need. The story shows this most with the Lady with the Unicorns and the Ghost with the Lizard. The story doesn't show (except with the Lizard Ghost) how that help then looks; but it's entirely probable that ''that'' can then be less CruelToBeKind. But confronting the problem has to come before this to make this choice between "do I want the help I need or not?" even possible - anything else would be an unconsented GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul: '' forcing'' them to become good. By making that choice ''for'' them.[[note]]For further elaboration on making the choice for them by miracle, mystery, or authority; see also the entry under Grand Inquisitor Scene on the page for Literature/TheBrothersKaramazov or indeed that scene itself.[[/note]] Possible, certainly, considering whom we are talking about; but would it be right? Most people (including the bus driver in-story) would say no.
* To the point of having sense when saving the Hell Ghosts - the most sensible point to consider is: what do you want to save them ''from''? In-story, this is always some sort of SelfInflictedHell: something is keeping them shut up inside their own selves. Saving them means taking the Hell out of them much more than taking them out of Hell - because their Hell is something they [[Creator/NeilGaiman carry around with them]]. And they are keeping that something, [[Literature/ParadiseLost even if]] the only way to save themselves from being shut up would be to let it go. Sometimes (it's at least implied this would ''always'' be the case in some form) this means giving up their self along with it - just like Len said: the only thing he could do was give up his self. This is what is meant by "not keeping even the most intimate souvenir of hell" if you want to get out of it - keeping just a little bit of the idea they'd shut themselves up in would be an individual ghost's intimate souvenir of hell. And it would drag the ghost back to there, eventually.
** What is keeping the big ghost is the idea of "(getting) what I deserve" - and of other people getting what they deserve?
** This is why it's exactly the point of what Heaven is doing when they send Len to meet him: showing the Big Ghost someone who ''really'' doesn't "deserve it" in his eyes. Looking down on others, especially Len; and going by "what everyone deserves", especially Len - That is the idea the Big Ghost is using to shut himself up in Hell. Exactly that is the idea he must give up if he wants to stay in Heaven - and exactly that is why they send Len. And also, the Big Ghost is more bothered about whether Len deserves to be in Heaven than whether he himself does - so: send Len.
** And it's outrageous to the Big Ghost! But if he can't or won't overcome that outrage, he's not going to be able to stay, because exactly this idea of outrage is what he is using to always drag himself back into Hell. It's become so much a part of his being, that giving it up would mean him, too, giving up his self. And this is what the choice is that is spelled out so bluntly honest. All or nothing: give up wanting to decide who goes to Heaven better than Heaven could decide themselves who they'll let in - or else go back to the bus. What they are really telling him is: sorry, there ''is'' no possible [[TakeAThirdOption third option]] - why should they lead him on instead?
* And it goes even deeper than the personal grudge the Big Ghost is holding. If you know better than someone else what is "good for" him or her than the person could ever know themselves (what they deserve, who they let in); then you're an absolute moral power - and as such you must hate anyone who tells you: there's no such thing except God (and by the way: you're not him). ''This'' is why he finds Heaven's CruelToBeKind ultimatum so outrageous, and heads back to the bus.
On a side note this is also the origin of a lot of ressentiments in real life, and a probable reason it's in the story: people hating others telling them that (God's, in the case of Heaven) moral law is absolute and applies to them - they ''can't'' make their own. This was one of the main reasons (to get back to your question) the [[ThoseWackyNazis actual historic Nazis]] (and the proto-Nazis before them) hated the Jews - because they told them that, totalitarian ideas or no: they, also, must abide by the Ten Commandments. So your comparison isn't as far from the story as it may seem at first glance.

** This is called a Rousseauian inversion - colloquially put: "what if the shoe were on the other foot?" - and it ''is'' one of the time-honored logical methods one can use for fact finding when thinking a question through for oneself if one is really looking for an actual answer that best fits those facts. And I ''do'' actually want to find an answer to your question: it's worth it, and you deserve one - which is ''why'' I am so thoroughly thinking it through - instead of just saying "intentionally invoking Godwin's law to end a debate doesn't work" and calling it a day.
** The Nazi would not expect a Jew at the gates any more than the other way around - but they wouldn't put it in those words. Translated into today's speech, they'd say: "finding a baby killing, Zionist[[note]]worse than Naziism in the speaker's eyes[[/note]], human rights violating, illegal settler who aids and abets crimes against humanity[[note]]and most likely member of the global conspiracy for the new world order and a global government - you know, the works[[/note]] expanding their illegal occupation to Kingdom Come[[note]]who's likely in their pocket because she's been in some form bought off[[/note]] is a moral outrage and invalidates any claims Heaven could ever make or have made to any form of ethics, morality, or goodness!!!!![[note]]see: ''Creator/TerryPratchett'' for the meaning of !!!!![[/note]]" They ''mean'' it when they think Jews are AlwaysChaoticEvil qua virtue of simply existing (this perspective flip is more than just rhetorical) - they'd be just as disgusted and outraged as you suggest it'd be in the other example; but ''not'' rightly so. And with the Big Ghost, the outrage is also ''not'' rightly so; so I rather think this comparison is better.
** There is one way in which your comparison fits better: the Big Ghost rejects Len not because of something inherent that he is (as it is in my AlwaysChaoticEvil example), but because of what he did (murder). The Big Ghost thinks that Len's deathbed conversion isn't enough to invalidate that, and that Len doesn't deserve to have a KarmaHoudini pulled for him because it's ''too'' bad. So the question becomes: are there things that are too bad for that offer of a ''carte blanche'' KarmaHoudini in exchange for giving up one's self - and where would the line be drawn? Depending on where one comes down on this question ''outside'' the book of course is directly connected to what one makes of the Big Ghost's case ''in'' the book. Most people would definitely draw the line before your example - and on the other hand be divided about Len. But if you're serious about that offer being valid for ''everything'' - as Heaven is in-universe - then that is the root of the problem. And that is what the Big Ghost must confront in order to give or refuse ''informed'' consent to becoming a Person. It's no use asking without giving full information.
** As the Burning Angel said: gradual baby steps are no use. This is only speculation, but the way the book implies it in-universe is that keeping something, ''anything'' - no matter how temporarily to ease the transition, no matter how tiny a little bit of something - that you'd give up later anyway: ''that'' is what wouldn't work, because "give up later" is what's impossible. And as it wouldn't work in the book's setting, taking those anyway although it wouldn't work would be dishonestly leading the Ghosts on - which is [[CruelMercy crueller]] than being [[BrutalHonesty honest]] with them from the outset.
** I think you misunderstand the Lady with the Unicorns: she doesn't want to be seen "naked" (that is, in the state next to nothing that is all of her ''own'' being she is without becoming a Person) because she is ''overly'' concerned with her ''appearance'', not with the ''reason'' for it (which reason is self-inflicted damnation). Simply put: she's vain as a peacock - except that "dress to impress" in-universe is, unfortunately, being solid; which she can't be. So: she's stuck - and doesn't want anyone to see her like that before she figures out a way to better make herself up. Showing her that there are other, bigger problems than looks, well...

** You misunderstand the Big Ghost - what he originally wanted was justice, because he hates evil. And those who love God must hate evil; because who's kind to the cruel where it's misplaced will start to be cruel to the kind (at the very least as a side effect by not stopping the cruelties). "Mercy" without any bounds or conditions would be wanton arbitrariness; and would hurt the people most who are the weakest. The Big Ghost's problem is that he wants ''too much'' of this - and fails in the opposite direction of "justice" without any bounds or conditions. Thus, he completely fails to see the conditions that ''were'' attached to Len's pardon. And as the form of retribution he wants isn't compatible with Heaven's justice system (which completely escapes him), because Heaven's compensative justice is something he can't grasp; he thinks they don't have any justice at all.

** In the Big Ghost's eyes, they ''deserve'' it - that ''is'' his form of justice: they need to be taught to finally face life on life's terms. Their subpar slacking just won't do: they need to start acting ''normal''. They need to do their part. But the Big Ghost will knock some sense into them, because knocks is the only language [[SurroundedByIdiots they]] understand. He's the only one doing any work, the only one doing his best, the only one upholding their marriage, the only one making sure no one falls out of line, and the only one seeing to it that everyone contributes all they should or indeed anything "around here". He's trying to bring about the [[Literature/ThatHideousStrength New Human Being]] in everyone around him - and he goddamn well wants his reward for it. In real life, you see this most in Kindergarten teachers, Communists, and GranolaGirl mummies of small children - it's a typical female form of violence; but the Big Ghost combines it with hard knocks to become a male example.
* This brings us back to the first part of things. The Big Ghost is a self-righteous prick. He uses ''himself'' as the standard of morality and refuses to look past himself. And because he refuses to give up his self-righteousness, even with Len begging him to change on bended knees, the Big Ghost stomps back to Hell, thinking that Heaven isn't really Heaven. A wise man would probably ask the Big Ghost at this point, "are you wiser or smarter than God?"
** No - if he were a jerk[=/=]prick he'd be ''enjoying'' what he [[ForTheEvulz does]]. And if he were merely self-righteous, he'd be using himself as a standard instead of an outside ideal of justice. The Big Ghost does neither: in his eyes, he is commiting a personal ''sacrifice'' to bring [[ForTheGreaterGood greater ideals]] into the world by what he does. It's just that what he does turns out to be evil: he's a KnightTemplar (though '''not''' a TautologicalTemplar), not a {{Jerk}}.
** Luckily for anyone who doesn't exactly have the mind of a saint but [[RightForTheWrongReasons ends up]] doing the right thing anyway - though ''un''luckily for the Big Ghost and any other knights templar - no one is judged by intentions. But that's just it the Big Ghost can't understand. Neither does he love God ''nor'' does he hate evil: he's abandoned everything else for his idea (of justice, in his case). And because he can't let go of that, he can't let go of Hell. In a way, just like Pam with her monomaniac ideal of motherlove.

** That's actually explored in-story by the Hard-Bitten Ghost - who basically says heaven and hell [[AncientConspiracy conspire]] to make everyone miserable, and are not really at war at all. The narrator nearly has a HeroicBSOD over it just before meeting George [=MacDonald=], who (finally) explains [[SelfInflictedHell what]] is going on.
** And while Lewis doesn't answer to the question of determinism (that is divine predetermination of individual people to damnation or salvation) in the story, he does so elsewhere - roughly paraphrased: that since God sees all times simultaneously, it's "now" for Him and at the same time "already when someone will have done something"; so it's not so much predetermining someone to do something as just watching them do it from a perspective where they themselves can't see it yet. It's safe to assume that Lewis had the same view when writing this story: yes, God can "already" see how the ghosts will decide - but that is no reason not to offer them the choice. Since there's the same problem with free will in general - if all ends are already known, then why not just act accordingly and skip the part where someone ''thinks'' they have a choice about anything? - there is no fundamental difference between letting someone decide this for themselves and letting someone decide anything else for themselves. Even if it's ultimately futile and their decision is known in advance. What you are really asking is if human beings have free will at all (or just think they do), and why - which is the same question in story as out of it. If the author had thought no, there wouldn't be a story, after all. Plus, not having free will / a choice ''no matter how that choice turns out'' (which is sort of the point of "free") would be needlessly cruel - in story and out of it.
* If God ''sincerely'' wants everyone to be eternally happy, why is he allowing the finite material mortal life to screw up people's eternal afterlife and fate often with serious consequences? This is even lampshaded by [=MacDonald=] warning of the TheEvilsOfFreeWill, and if he considered this, but lacking the reality changing power is unable to act upon or improve determinism to ensure "all paths lead to God", why then is an all-powerful God not understanding this, and in fact seemingly struggling to achieve this and has limited himself to a GoodIsImpotent creator? The author had the deepest respect for [=MacDonald=] but has unintentionally made him wiser than the almighty he worships.
** Would you be eternally happy as an agency-less drawing on a page? Free will and all that, you know. Also - all paths cannot lead to God, since some things are ''evil''. You could ask - unde malum? And the answer would be - from wrong choices in a complex world. TheEvilsOfFreeWill if you please. Could the world be simpler, so simple the bad choices would never be possible? Perhaps. Perhaps not. You're a person, not a puppet. Persons can choose. Some choose[[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade ... poorly]]. Ever choice is unique, not a mechanical thing. Maybe only actual persons with free will ''can'' be happy in the first place - if so, this question is like asking why God won't make a square triangle.

** It's not true, by the way (which ''was'' admittedly the question asked: why it's not made that way) that all paths lead to God. People using this image like to compare existence to a mountain, with God at the top; and then say "all paths lead to the top of the mountain". Which, if you've ever gone hiking, you know that they don't: some paths go around the mountain, or to other mountains - or just from the parking lot to the parking meter, the souvenir shop, or the washroom. It's the same with philosophical thought paths: not all of them have the same destination. Sometimes, you just think about very ordinary questions, sometimes extraordinary questions - but not even all the latter lead to God. It's also the same in-story: not all the Hell Ghosts decide to go on a path that leads to God (that is, journey into the mountains) - some just go about a bit and then head back to the parking lot; that is, back to the bus.

* You are assuming that "reason with them" is the only purpose of those visits - when in fact, it may not be. This may serve the - if the person is in the end saved: additional, if not then: other - purpose of sending the message that YouAreNotAlone. Remember that in-story, damnation is [[SelfInflictedHell self-inflicted]]. To use a non-fictional parallel: would you offer an [[TheAlcoholic addict]] help to overcome their addiction even though [[AsYouKnow you know]] that most cannot? Of course you would! So would the bus driver in the story - even if he knows it's (probably) not successful, because in either case even the offer of help might provide some small comfort.
* On that note there's also this passage that the author was certainly familiar with which makes it very in-character for the bus driver to visit someone imprisoned - because why shouldn't he do himself what he wants others to do.
* The only alternative would be an unconsentual GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul - and the jury is still out on whether that also constitutes MindRape if that action restores someone into a state where you can ''then'' retroactively ask their permission; but it'd definitely walk a line.
* "You can't rescue people who won't participate in their own rescue" is only half the story. Theoretically, God ''could'' well do this - except it would be MindRape, so He ''won't''. Everyone gets what they want, in the end.
** And, ultimately, you get what you want. There's always a chance (hence ferrying the souls from Hell to Heaven over and over again: they're never given up on, until they give up on themselves) - but you have to take it. No-one else can live your life. You ''will'' only be carried to Heaven if you allow it. In a sense: requiring your consent is the price you pay for the possibility to refuse it and tell God to stuff it.

** This is speculation, but this book could well be meant as a {{Foil}} to ''The Screwtape Letters'': completely different on every level.
** The Grey Town may well be as sentinent as the Valley of the Shadow of Life and the Waterfall Angel (and obfuscating stupidity) - and it is ''more'' than demonic enough. As noted there under FaceOfAnAngelMindOfADemon: What's so bad, after all, about an eternally rainy, but completely normal and bleakly ordinary, "perfectly non-sentinent" megalopolis where nothing exciting (and especially not anything hellish!) ever happens - that delights in psychologically torturing its denizens so subtly that they don't even notice: getting a kick out of first the effects of the torture, then out of this profound ignorance and the ignorance of the horrible deep lasting effects, then out of getting them to help do it - and most of all out of the sick joke that someone who notices and overcomes their Self-Inflicted Hell could leave at any time, yet nearly no one ever does because Hell is just that masterful at playing this game? With a side order of "this could never happen to me" (or sometimes, Then Let Me Be Evil) for extra amusement.
** Near the end of the part where he explains his economic scheme, Ikey says that "They" will come out when the night fully falls, and that part of why the ghosts make their fake houses is for the illusion of safety. So presumably Satan and his demons are still being held at bay even in the Gray Town by the last vestiges of Divine Grace... and when the last soul makes the last choice, that vestige will be withdrawn, the twilight will turn to full night, and the demons will move in.
** All you have for that is Ikey's word, though (who might well be an UnreliableNarrator here as well as for other things that are proven to be different from Ikey's idea of them later in the book) - what [=MacDonald=] explains later about the workings of hell is quite a different story (namely, that the damned shut themselves up in the SelfInflictedHell of their own minds) - meaning that while the ''fear'' of demons is real, the existence of demons ''themselves'' might well be a lie, rumor, or mistaken assumption. No one in hell who knows otherwise, least of all Hell itself, would correct this mistake if it were one - the denizens all are {{Jerk}}s, and Hell is a {{Yandere}} master psychological abuser - so if people ''want'' to torture themselves with the fear of "them" even though "they" don't exist... Plus, it nicely keeps them from [[EpiphanicPrison realising]] their hell is entirely self-inflicted and their evil is 100% their own fault (with no devils making or tempting them) if people can blame demons for either. If they realised those two things, they could get out; so the fear of demons keeps them inside ''even if'' there are no demons and no Satan at all.

** Going from the headscratcher about the eternal sunrise "all moments are contained in this moment", there may not really be a "too far to walk to reach the bus in time" - as long as someone ''wants to'' take the bus, they'll get there eventually. In the words of [=MacDonald=]
--> ‘It was not once long ago that He did it. Time does not work that way when once ye have left the Earth. All moments that have been or shall be were, or are, present in the moment of His descending. There is no spirit in prison to Whom He did not preach.’

* That's actually explored in-story by the Hard-Bitten Ghost - who basically says heaven and hell [[AncientConspiracy conspire]] to make everyone miserable, and are not really at war at all. The narrator nearly has a HeroicBSOD over it just before meeting George [=MacDonald=], who (finally) explains [[SelfInflictedHell what]] is going on.
* And while Lewis doesn't answer to the question of determinism (that is divine predetermination of individual people to damnation or salvation) in the story, he does so elsewhere - roughly paraphrased: that since God sees all times simultaneously, it's "now" for Him and at the same time "already when someone will have done something"; so it's not so much predetermining someone to do something as just watching them do it from a perspective where they themselves can't see it yet. It's safe to assume that Lewis had the same view when writing this story: yes, God can "already" see how the ghosts will decide - but that is no reason not to offer them the choice. Since there's the same problem with free will in general - if all ends are already known, then why not just act accordingly and skip the part where someone ''thinks'' they have a choice about anything? - there is no fundamental difference between letting someone decide this for themselves and letting someone decide anything else for themselves. Even if it's ultimately futile and their decision is known in advance. What you are really asking is if human beings have free will at all (or just think they do), and why - which is the same question in story as out of it. If the author had thought no, there wouldn't be a story, after all. Plus, not having free will / a choice ''no matter how that choice turns out'' (which is sort of the point of "free") would be needlessly cruel - in story and out of it.
* Explained (sort of) by [=MacDonald=]:
-> The picture is a symbol: but it’s truer than any philosophical theorem (or, perhaps, than any mystic’s vision) that claims to go behind it. For every attempt to see the shape of eternity except through the lens of Time destroys your knowledge of Freedom. Witness the doctrine of Predestination which shows (truly enough) that eternal reality is not waiting for a future in which to be real; but at the price of removing Freedom which is the deeper truth of the two. And wouldn’t Universalism do the same? Ye cannot know eternal reality by a definition. Time itself, and all acts and events that fill Time, are the definition, and it must be lived.

* Would you be eternally happy as an agency-less drawing on a page? Free will and all that, you know. Also - all paths cannot lead to God, since some things are ''evil''. You could ask - unde malum? And the answer would be - from wrong choices in a complex world. TheEvilsOfFreeWill if you please. Could the world be simpler, so simple the bad choices would never be possible? Perhaps. Perhaps not. You're a person, not a puppet. Persons can choose. Some choose[[Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade ... poorly]]. Ever choice is unique, not a mechanical thing. Maybe only actual persons with free will ''can'' be happy in the first place - if so, this question is like asking why God won't make a square triangle.
* All paths leading to God is a saying used in the theological sense, as the cosmic being is the end-all, be-all, of creation. Either you [[AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence find eternal life]] in him, or you find [[CessationOfExistence your eternal death]].

*** Some people sadly, will climb that mountain to purposely [[DeathSeeker throw themselves off it]]. And there's nothing the mountain can do to stop it. If that were not true, ''Hell would not exist'' and there would be no story.\\
The latter echoes the same ideas as those with which the villain of Lewis' other books The Space Trilogy (who commits suicide by self-immolation) is seen off by the narration:
---> Escape for the soul, if not for the body, was offered him. He became able to know (and simultaneously refused the knowledge) that he had been wrong from the beginning, that souls and personal responsibility existed. He half saw: he wholly hated. The physical torture of the burning was not fiercer than his hatred of that. With one supreme effort he flung himself back into his illusion. In that attitude eternity overtook him as sunrise in old tales overtakes and turns them into unchangeable stone.

* As explained by Sarah Smith:
->‘Using pity, other people’s pity, in the wrong way. We have all done it a bit on earth, you know. Pity was meant to be a spur that drives joy to help misery. But it can be used the wrong way round. It can be used for a kind of blackmailing. Those who choose misery can hold joy up to ransom, by pity. You see, I know now. Even as a child you did it. Instead of saying you were sorry, you went and sulked in the attic . . . because you knew that sooner or later one of your sisters would say, “I can’t bear to think of him sitting up there alone, crying.” You used their pity to blackmail them, and they gave in in the end. And afterwards, when we were married . . . oh, it doesn’t matter, if only you will stop it.’\\
‘And that,’ said the Tragedian, ‘that is all you have understood of me, after all these years.’ I don’t know what had become of the Dwarf Ghost by now. Perhaps it was climbing up the chain like an insect: perhaps it was somehow absorbed into the chain.\\
‘No, Frank, not here,’ said the Lady. ‘Listen to reason. Did you think joy was created to live always under that threat? '''Always defenceless against those who would rather be miserable than have their self-will crossed?''' For it was real misery. I know that now. You made yourself really wretched. That you can still do. But you can no longer communicate your wretchedness. Everything becomes more and more itself. Here is joy that cannot be shaken. Our light can swallow up your darkness: but your darkness cannot now infect our light. No, no, no. Come to us. We will not go to you. Can you really have thought that love and joy would always be at the mercy of frowns and sighs? Did you not know they were stronger than their opposites?’
* And by [=MacDonald=]:
->‘I hardly know, Sir. What some people say on earth is that the final loss of one soul gives the lie to all the joy of those who are saved.’\\
‘Ye see it does not.’\\
‘I feel in a way that it ought to.’\\
‘That sounds very merciful: but see what lurks behind it.’\\
‘What?’\\
‘'''The demand of the loveless and the self-imprisoned that they should be allowed to blackmail the universe: that till they consent to be happy (on their own terms) no one else shall taste joy: that theirs should be the final power; that Hell should be able to veto Heaven.'''’\\
‘I don’t know what I want, Sir.’\\
‘Son, son, it must be one way or the other. Either the day must come when joy prevails and all the makers of misery are no longer able to infect it: or else for ever and ever the makers of misery can destroy in others the happiness they reject for themselves. I know it has a grand sound to say ye’ll accept no salvation which leaves even one creature in the dark outside. But watch that sophistry or ye’ll make a Dog in a Manger the tyrant of the universe.’\\
‘But dare one say—it is horrible to say—that Pity must ever die?’\\
‘Ye must distinguish. The action of Pity will live for ever: but the passion of Pity will not. The passion of pity, the pity we merely suffer, the ache that draws men to concede what should not be conceded and to flatter when they should speak truth, the pity that has cheated many a woman out of her virginity and many a statesman out of his honesty—that will die. It was used as a weapon by bad men against good ones: their weapon will be broken.’\\
‘And what is the other kind—the action?’\\
‘It’s a weapon on the other side. It leaps quicker than light from the highest place to the lowest to bring healing and joy, whatever the cost to itself. It changes darkness into light' and evil into good. But it will not, at the cunning tears of Hell, impose on good the tyranny of evil. Every disease that submits to a cure shall be cured: but we will not call blue yellow to please those who insist on still having jaundice, nor make a midden of the world’s garden for the sake of some who cannot abide the smell of roses.’
* God is not just driving the bus, he's visiting every damned soul beforehand ''to reason with them''. Why is he trying so hard to save that which he already ''knows'' [[YouAreTooLate is now beyond his ability to save?]] Granted, it's in line with his character i.e. he reaps where he sowed not, but it doesn't make it any less illogical (and somewhat cruel).

* On that note there's also this passage that the author was certainly familiar with which makes it very in-character for the bus driver to visit someone imprisoned - because why shouldn't he do himself what he wants others to do:
-> I was in prison, and you visited me.
* The only alternative would be an unconsentual GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul - and the jury is still out on whether that also constitutes MindRape if that action restores someone into a state where you can ''then'' retroactively ask their permission; but it'd definitely walk a line. Elsewhere, Lewis writes about free will:
-> God created things which had free will ... if a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having.\\
The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight...\\
And for that they must be free.

** And, ultimately, you get what you want. There's always a chance (hence ferrying the souls from Hell to Heaven over and over again: they're never given up on, until they give up on themselves) - but you have to take it. No-one else can live your life. You ''will'' only be carried to Heaven if you allow it. In a sense: requiring your consent is the price you pay for the possibility to refuse it and tell God to stuff it.\\
Explained by [=MacDonald=]:
--> No. Because all answers deceive. If ye put the question from within Time and are asking about possibilities, the answer is certain. The choice of ways is before you. Neither is closed. Any man may choose eternal death. Those who choose it will have it. But if ye are trying to leap on into eternity, if ye are trying to see the final state of all things as it will be (for so ye must speak) when there are no more possibilities left but only the Real, then ye ask what cannot be answered to mortal ears. Time is the very lens through which ye see—small and clear, as men see through the wrong end of a telescope—something that would otherwise be too big for ye to see at all. That thing is Freedom: the gift whereby ye most resemble your Maker and are yourselves parts of eternal reality. But ye can see it only through the lens of Time, in a little clear picture, through the inverted telescope. It is a picture of moments following one another and yourself in each moment making some choice that might have been otherwise.

** It's stated outright by [=MacDonald=]:
-->Only the Greatest of all can make Himself small enough to enter Hell. For the higher a thing is, the lower it can descend—a man can sympathise with a horse but a horse cannot sympathise with a rat. Only One has descended into Hell.

** The dreamer even asks more or less this exact question, though I'll leave it up to you to decide whether the answer means the bus goes from several stops (and the narrator just happened to get on at the last before the trip to the Valley of the Shadow of Life); or that there is infinite time, and definitely all the time needed, to get to the stop, or both:
--> ‘But what of the poor Ghosts who never get into the omnibus at all?’ \\
‘Everyone who wishes it does. Never fear. There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened.’

* CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot: This one is unlikely as none of the Hell Ghosts are remotely [[UngratefulTownsfolk likely]] to do so (all any of them ever do is make mean comments in his general direction) - but considering his [[ItWasHisSled not so secret]] identity, what would happen if any of the ghosts decided to have a chat with the bus driver after reaching their destination? Would they [[Catch22Dilemma already]] have to be half way to becoming a Person to get the idea of thanking him for bringing them and be (most likely) additionally welcomed with the offer of making them all of a Person, so the point is more or less moot? Or if someone had gotten the idea to outright ask for this?
** That one would likely have gone the same as a passage in a [[Literature/TheSpaceTrilogy different book]] by the same author, during the end of the third book of which the [=POV=]-character has a religious experience that's described like this:
--> ‘Religion’ ought to mean a realm in which [...] what she called her ‘true self’ would soar upwards and expand in some freer and purer world. For still she thought that ‘Religion’ was a kind of exhalation or a cloud of incense, something steaming up from specially gifted souls towards a receptive Heaven. Then, quite sharply, it occurred to her that [good people she knew] never talked about Religion [...] They talked about God. [...N]o picture [...] of some mist steaming upward: rather of strong, skilful hands thrust down to make, and mend, perhaps even to destroy. Supposing one were a thing after all – a thing designed and invented by Someone Else and valued for qualities quite different from what one had decided to regard as one’s true self? [...] For one moment she had a ridiculous and scorching vision of a world in which God Himself would never understand, never take her with full seriousness. Then, at one particular corner of the gooseberry patch, the change came. \\
What awaited her there was serious to the degree of sorrow and beyond. There was no form nor sound. The mould under the bushes, the moss on the path, and the little brick border, were not visibly changed. But they were changed. A boundary had been crossed. She had come into a world, or into a Person, or into the presence of a Person. Something expectant, patient, inexorable, met her with no veil or protection between. [...] This demand which now pressed upon her was not, even by analogy, like any other demand. It was the origin of all right demands and contained them. In its light you could understand them; but from them you could know nothing of it. There was nothing, and never had been anything, like this. And now there was nothing except this. Yet also, everything had been like this; only by being like this had anything existed. In this height and depth and breadth the little idea of herself which she had hitherto called me dropped down and vanished, unfluttering, into bottomless distance, like a bird in a space without air. The name ''me'' was the name of a being whose existence she had never suspected, a being that did not yet fully exist but which was demanded. It was a person (not the person she had thought), yet also a thing, a made thing, made to please Another and in Him to please all others, a thing being made at this very moment, without its choice, in a shape it had never dreamed of. And the making went on amidst a kind of splendour or sorrow or both, whereof she could not tell whether it was in the moulding hands or in the kneaded lump.

*** ExtremelyShortTimespan: possibly - making this the opposite of the headscratcher below. Not only because in the end it turns out to have been AllJustADream; but InUniverse, this could be a [[GeniusBonus reference to]] one of the more obscure bits of Christian theology. If so, then the whole story takes place in one night: the night from [[EitherOrTitle Holy]] Saturday [=/=] Great Sabbath [=/=] [[IHaveManyNames Black]] Saturday evening to Easter Sunday morning; when after dying on Good Friday, Christ descended into hell to get the damned [[DeliveranceFromDamnation out]] before rising from the dead at Easter. Then again, time may not work like that at all in the story:
-> This moment contains all possible moments.

->‘The morning! The morning!’ I cried, ‘I am caught by the morning and I am a ghost.’ But it was too late. The light, like solid blocks, intolerable of edge and weight, came thundering upon my head. Next moment [... ] the blocks of light were only the books which I had pulled off with [the tablecloth] falling about my head. I awoke in a cold room, hunched on the floor beside a black and empty grate, the clock striking three, and the siren howling overhead.

-> All moments are contained in this moment.

-> [E]very shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind is, in the end, Hell.

** All you have for that is Ikey's word, though (who might well be an UnreliableNarrator here as well as for other things that are proven to be different from Ikey's idea of them later in the book) - what [=MacDonald=] explains later about the workings of hell is quite a different story (namely, that the damned shut themselves up in the SelfInflictedHell of their own minds) - meaning that while the ''fear'' of demons is real, the existence of demons ''themselves'' might well be a lie, rumor, or mistaken assumption. \\
No one in hell who knows otherwise, least of all Hell itself, would correct this mistake if it were one - the denizens all are {{Jerk}}s, and Hell is a {{Yandere}} master psychological abuser - so if people ''want'' to torture themselves with the fear of "them" even though "they" don't exist... Plus, it nicely keeps them from [[EpiphanicPrison realising]] their hell is entirely self-inflicted and their evil is 100% their own fault (with no devils making or tempting them) if people can blame demons for either. \\
If they realised those two things, they could get out; so the fear of demons keeps them inside ''even if'' there are no demons and no Satan at all.

* And would you show a consumate Nazi straight out of Hell a Jew who is in Heaven first thing when you're telling her she has to get rid of every last bit of her Nazism if she wants to go there, too? Not even though, but explicitely ''because'' Nazism sees Jews as the embodiment of [[AlwaysChaoticEvil all evil]]? Sure you would.
** Seriously, though: it's ''heavily'' implied that showing the Big Ghost the absolute worst thing he can imagine, a murderer who got to Heaven, is sort of the ''point''.\\
(And additionally it's showing ''how'' Len didn't just go there "anyway" - it's a bit downplayed, as the Big Ghost doesn't register it, but Len mentions nearly offhandedly that the price was giving up his ''self'': "I had to, after the murder" - showing the Big Ghost the only way anyone can get in.)
** Speaking of "worst you can imagine": Heaven's whole approach reminds one of people who aren't evil, but fearful - fear so bad that it's an anxiety disorder. The way they can be healed of that fear does not sound at all like something for the fearful itself, and rather counter-intuitive: it's done by confrontation with exactly the thing that is causing them the fear in the first place, so that they can learn to let go of the fear. In-story, the same method is used not for fear, but for evil. \\
Heaven is very plainly and openly GoodIsNotNice and CruelToBeKind about all this in a way reminiscent of [[Literature/WitchesAbroad Granny Weatherwax]] of Discworld fame: "she didn't do good for people, she did right by them" (while her sister Lily makes their life a fairy tale come true with them as the main character; which ends BADLY even if the ending is suppposed to be a happy one).\\
That the Hell Ghosts can't really be eased into it instead is commented on by the Burning Angel, who notes that the gradual process is no use (maybe it's not even possible) when curing the Ghost with the Lizard. It's quite probably that the same applies to ''all'' Hell Ghosts, including the Big Ghost. The reason for the brutally honest CruelToBeKind way of going about it is explained (sort of) by [=MacDonald=]:
--> Ye must distinguish. The action of Pity will live for ever: but the passion of Pity will not. The passion of pity, the pity we merely suffer, the ache that draws men to concede what should not be conceded and to flatter when they should speak truth, the pity that has cheated many a woman out of her virginity and many a statesman out of his honesty—that will die. [...] Every disease that submits to a cure shall be cured: but we will not call blue yellow to please those who insist on still having jaundice, nor make a midden of the world’s garden for the sake of some who cannot abide the smell of roses.

* That being said, once someone ''realises'' they need help, and by acknowledging that to themselves actually opens up enough to ''let'' themselves be helped; then they can and will have any and every help they need. The story shows this most with the Lady with the Unicorns and the Ghost with the Lizard. The story doesn't show (except with the Lizard Ghost) how that help then looks; but it's entirely probable that ''that'' can then be less CruelToBeKind. \\
But confronting the problem has to come before this to make this choice between "do I want the help I need or not?" even possible - anything else would be an unconsented GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul: '' forcing'' them to become good. By making that choice ''for'' them.[[note]]For further elaboration on making the choice for them by miracle, mystery, or authority; see also the entry under Grand Inquisitor Scene on the page for Literature/TheBrothersKaramazov or indeed that scene itself.[[/note]] Possible, certainly, considering whom we are talking about; but would it be right? Most people (including the bus driver in-story) would say no.
* To the point of having sense when saving the Hell Ghosts - the most sensible point to consider is: what do you want to save them ''from''? In-story, this is always some sort of SelfInflictedHell: something is keeping them shut up inside their own selves. Saving them means taking the Hell out of them much more than taking them out of Hell - because their Hell is something they [[Creator/NeilGaiman carry around with them]]. And they are keeping that something, [[Literature/ParadiseLost even if]] the only way to save themselves from being shut up would be to let it go. Sometimes (it's at least implied this would ''always'' be the case in some form) this means giving up their self along with it - just like Len said: the only thing he could do was give up his self.\\
This is what is meant by "not keeping even the most intimate souvenir of hell" if you want to get out of it - keeping just a little bit of the idea they'd shut themselves up in would be an individual ghost's intimate souvenir of hell. And it would drag the ghost back to there, eventually.
** What is keeping the big ghost is the idea of "(getting) what I deserve" - and of other people getting what they deserve: \\
''Of course'' everyone is here as a KarmaHoudini - but if they ''had'' given everyone what they deserved, then I'd have deserved it more than he did. \\
Nope: out it goes, that idea. Let go of it, or you're not coming in with it - because it wouldn't be possible.\\
Conpare this also to what the Episcopal Ghost is told by ''his'' SpiritAdvisor about his apostasy:
--> One wrench and the tooth will be out. You can begin again as if nothing had ever gone wrong [...] It's all true, you know.

** And it's outrageous to the Big Ghost! But if he can't or won't overcome that outrage, he's not going to be able to stay, because exactly this idea of outrage is what he is using to always drag himself back into Hell. It's become so much a part of his being, that giving it up would mean him, too, giving up his self. \\
And this is what the choice is that is spelled out so bluntly honest. All or nothing: give up wanting to decide who goes to Heaven better than Heaven could decide themselves who they'll let in - or else go back to the bus. What they are really telling him is: sorry, there ''is'' no possible [[TakeAThirdOption third option]] - why should they lead him on instead?
* And it goes even deeper than the personal grudge the Big Ghost is holding. If you know better than someone else what is "good for" him or her than the person could ever know themselves (what they deserve, who they let in); then you're an absolute moral power - and as such you must hate anyone who tells you: there's no such thing except God (and by the way: you're not him). ''This'' is why he finds Heaven's CruelToBeKind ultimatum so outrageous, and heads back to the bus. \\

** Luckily for anyone who doesn't exactly have the mind of a saint but [[RightForTheWrongReasons ends up]] doing the right thing anyway - though ''un''luckily for the Big Ghost and any other knights templar - no one is judged by intentions. But that's just it the Big Ghost can't understand. Neither does he love God ''nor'' does he hate evil: he's abandoned everything else for his idea (of justice, in his case). And because he can't let go of that, he can't let go of Hell. In a way, just like Pam with her monomaniac ideal of motherlove.[[/folder]]

[[WMG: Rejection is futility]]
[[quoteright:350:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/fv02568.gif]]
[[caption-width-right:350:On the other hand, asking for permission for a religious experience ''is'' difficult when the act of asking ''already'' constitutes said experience.]]
Why is God [[{{Psychopomp}} chauffeuring damned souls to Heaven]] he knows beforehand are predestined for Hell? If he truly wants to help them, why is he prolonging their suffering instead?

[[WMG: Predestination final destination and pre-emptive defenestration]]
If God ''sincerely'' wants everyone to be eternally happy, why is he allowing the finite material mortal life to screw up people's eternal afterlife and fate often with serious consequences? This is even lampshaded by [=MacDonald=] warning of the TheEvilsOfFreeWill, and if he considered this, but lacking the reality changing power is unable to act upon or improve determinism to ensure "all paths lead to God", why then is an all-powerful God not understanding this, and in fact seemingly struggling to achieve this and has limited himself to a GoodIsImpotent creator? The author had the deepest respect for [=MacDonald=] but has unintentionally made him wiser than the almighty he worships.

[[WMG: Pity failure(s)]]
The nature of the divinity of love (according to the theology) is honestly flipped on its head: Why are the Bright Ones who have come to understand the nature of God, [[LackOfEmpathy unable to feel sorrow]] for those who fail to enter Heaven? Why is only God the only one in Heaven who has the capacity for empathy? It makes Heaven out to be a place where the saved are GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul. Again, obviously not the intention of Lewis but still unfolds in the narrative.

[[WMG: The morning after the world's last night]]
God is not just driving the bus, he's visiting every damned soul beforehand ''to reason with them''. Why is he trying so hard to save that which he already ''knows'' [[YouAreTooLate is now beyond his ability to save?]] Granted, it's in line with his character i.e. he reaps where he sowed not, but it doesn't make it any less illogical (and somewhat cruel).

[[WMG: Could you give me a lift?]]
[[quoteright:350:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/mantegnadescentlimbo.jpg]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Could you give me a lift?[[note]]''Descent into Limbo'' by Andrea Mantegna[[/note]]]]

[[WMG: Time is short, and also a good name for a rock band]]
[[quoteright:300:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/blacktulip2.jpg]]
[[caption-width-right:300:[[Music/BlackSabbath These people]] also thought one of those many names was a good one for a rock band.]]
ExtremelyShortTimespan: possibly - making this the opposite of the headscratcher below. Not only because in the end it turns out to have been AllJustADream; but InUniverse, this could be a [[GeniusBonus reference to]] one of the more obscure bits of Christian theology. If so, then the whole story takes place in one night: the night from [[EitherOrTitle Holy]] Saturday [=/=] Great Sabbath [=/=] [[IHaveManyNames Black]] Saturday evening to Easter Sunday morning; when after dying on Good Friday, Christ descended into hell to get the damned [[DeliveranceFromDamnation out]] before rising from the dead at Easter. Then again, time may not work like that at all in the story:

[[WMG: The sunrise overtakes and turnes them into stone]]
When the inescapable light of God, now revealed, smashes down on Hell, causing terrible agony for the damned who remain there (imagine getting crushed by concrete blocks) does that spell the end for the Hell Ghosts? Or now that Hell has become Hell, is it too late for some unable to stand the pain to cry ‘Thy will be done’?
* As far as I read it the solid blocks are the narrator's integration into the last vestiges of the dream (while waking up) of the books he pulled down when he fell off the chair that he'd been sleeping in falling all around him - they needn't be part of the story proper at all:

[[WMG: Have you seen my demons?]]
Where are Satan and his fallen angels? It is shown that the more evil and self-centered the being, the tinier they get. Did they literally implode into nothingness? If so, how are they still able to do mischief in life then?
* They needn't even to ever have existed in story for it to work - as the whole point is that the damned [[SelfInflictedHell make their own hell]] unprompted by any outside influence; and are unable to leave it behind unless they leave their own evil and self-centeredness [[EpiphanicPrison behind with it]]. It fits the story even better if we human beings "do our own mischief in life" and there ''are'' no demons in the first place, never were.

* This is speculation, but this book could well be meant as a {{Foil}} to ''The Screwtape Letters'': completely different on every level.
* The Grey Town may well be as sentinent as the Valley of the Shadow of Life and the Waterfall Angel (and obfuscating stupidity) - and it is ''more'' than demonic enough. As noted there under FaceOfAnAngelMindOfADemon: What's so bad, after all, about an eternally rainy, but completely normal and bleakly ordinary, "perfectly non-sentinent" megalopolis where nothing exciting (and especially not anything hellish!) ever happens - that delights in psychologically torturing its denizens so subtly that they don't even notice: getting a kick out of first the effects of the torture, then out of this profound ignorance and the ignorance of the horrible deep lasting effects, then out of getting them to help do it - and most of all out of the sick joke that someone who notices and overcomes their Self-Inflicted Hell could leave at any time, yet nearly no one ever does because Hell is just that masterful at playing this game? With a side order of "this could never happen to me" (or sometimes, Then Let Me Be Evil) for extra amusement.
* Near the end of the part where he explains his economic scheme, Ikey says that "They" will come out when the night fully falls, and that part of why the ghosts make their fake houses is for the illusion of safety. So presumably Satan and his demons are still being held at bay even in the Gray Town by the last vestiges of Divine Grace... and when the last soul makes the last choice, that vestige will be withdrawn, the twilight will turn to full night, and the demons will move in.

[[WMG: Blessed are the poor in conduct]]
[[quoteright:350:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/fc03067.png]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Letting go is difficult]]
How did the Bright Ones, sometimes with sins far graver than those in Hell get saved? It feels less of a PlotHole and more of a RiddleForTheAges on the author's part. How did they let go of their hatred, which they elaborate upon, when the Hell Ghosts are unable to? If Universal Reconciliation were in play that would make more sense: they've completed their journey, whereas the Hellish Ghosts have only just begun. Except that's not the case here.

[[WMG: A match made in Murphy]]
Of all the Bright Ones Heaven decided to show the Big Ghost, why on Earth did it pick Len first? Better if it eased the guy who holds grudges into paradise rather than drop that bombshell straight away. Yes everyone in Heaven has pulled off a KarmaHoudini, but you would not show a Jew a saved Hitler at the gates would you? You have to have more sense than that if you want to save sinners.

[[WMG: One hundred percent for the Big Ghost]]

Of all the Bright Ones Heaven decided to show the Big Ghost, [[JustForPun why on Earth]] did it pick Len first? Better if it eased the guy who holds grudges into paradise rather than drop that bombshell straight away. Yes everyone in Heaven has pulled off a KarmaHoudini, but you would not show a Jew a saved Hitler at the gates would you? You have to have more sense than that if you want to save sinners.

** All you have for that is Ikey's word, though (who might well be an UnreliableNarrator here as well as for other things that are proven to be different from Ikey's idea of them later in the book) - what [=MacDonald=] explains later about the workings of hell is quite a different story (namely, that the damned shut themselves up in the SelfInflictedHell of their own minds) - meaning that while the ''fear'' of demons is real, the existence of demons ''themselves'' might well be a lie, rumor, or mistaken assumption. No one in hell who knows otherwise, least of all Hell itself, would correct this mistake if it were one - the denizens all are {{Jerk}}s, and Hell is a {{Yandere}} master psychological abuser - so if people ''want'' to torture themselves with the fear of "them" even though "they" don't exist... Plus, it nicely keeps them from [[EpiphanicPrison realising]] their hell is entirely self-inflicted and their evil is 100% their own fault (with no devils making or tempting them) if people can blame demons for either. If they realised those two things, they could get out; so the fear of demons keeps them inside ''even if'' there are no demons and no Satan at all.

** All you have for that is Ikey's word, though - what [=MacDonald=] explains later is quite a different story (namely, that the damned shut themselves up in the SelfInflictedHell of their own minds) - meaning that while the ''fear'' of demons is real, the existence of demons ''themselves'' might well be a lie, rumor, or mistaken assumption. No one in hell who knows otherwise, least of all Hell itself, would correct this mistake if it were one - the denizens all are {{Jerk}}s, and Hell is a {{Yandere}} master psychological abuser - so if people ''want'' to torture themselves with the fear of "them" even though "they" don't exist... Plus, it nicely keeps them from [[EpiphanicPrison realising]] their hell is entirely self-inflicted and their evil is 100% their own fault (with no devils making or tempting them) if people can blame demons for either. If they realised those two things, they could get out; so the fear of demons keeps them inside ''even if'' there are no demons and no Satan at all.

* The Grey town may well be as sentinent as the Valley of the Shadow of Life and the Waterfall Angel (and obfuscating stupidity) - and it is ''more'' than demonic enough. As noted there under FaceOfAnAngelMindOfADemon: What's so bad, after all, about an eternally rainy, but completely normal and bleakly ordinary, "perfectly non-sentinent" megalopolis where nothing exciting (and especially not anything hellish!) ever happens - that delights in psychologically torturing its denizens so subtly that they don't even notice: getting a kick out of first the effects of the torture, then out of this profound ignorance and the ignorance of the horrible deep lasting effects, then out of getting them to help do it - and most of all out of the sick joke that someone who notices and overcomes their Self-Inflicted Hell could leave at any time, yet nearly no one ever does because Hell is just that masterful at playing this game? With a side order of "this could never happen to me" (or sometimes, Then Let Me Be Evil) for extra amusement.

ExtremelyShortTimespan: possibly - making it sort of the opposite of the headscratcher below. Not only because [[spoiler: in the end it turns out to have been AllJustADream]]; but InUniverse, this could be [[GeniusBonus referencing]] one of the more obscure bits of Christian theology. If so, then the whole story takes place in one night: the night from [[EitherOrTitle Holy]] Saturday [=/=] Great Sabbath [=/=] [[IHaveManyNames Black]] Saturday evening to Easter Sunday morning; when after dying on Good Friday, Christ descended into hell to get the damned [[DeliveranceFromDamnation out]] before rising from the dead at Easter. Then again, time may not work like that at all in story:

--> The picture is a symbol: but it’s truer than any philosophical theorem (or, perhaps, than any mystic’s vision) that claims to go behind it. For every attempt to see the shape of eternity except through the lens of Time destroys your knowledge of Freedom. Witness the doctrine of Predestination which shows (truly enough) that eternal reality is not waiting for a future in which to be real; but at the price of removing Freedom which is the deeper truth of the two. And wouldn’t Universalism do the same? Ye cannot know eternal reality by a definition. Time itself, and all acts and events that fill Time, are the definition, and it must be lived.

--> Escape for the soul, if not for the body, was offered him. He became able to know (and simultaneously refused the knowledge) that he had been wrong from the beginning, that souls and personal responsibility existed. He half saw: he wholly hated. The physical torture of the burning was not fiercer than his hatred of that. With one supreme effort he flung himself back into his illusion. In that attitude eternity overtook him as sunrise in old tales overtakes and turns them into unchangeable stone.

-->‘Using pity, other people’s pity, in the wrong way. We have all done it a bit on earth, you know. Pity was meant to be a spur that drives joy to help misery. But it can be used the wrong way round. It can be used for a kind of blackmailing. Those who choose misery can hold joy up to ransom, by pity. You see, I know now. Even as a child you did it. Instead of saying you were sorry, you went and sulked in the attic . . . because you knew that sooner or later one of your sisters would say, “I can’t bear to think of him sitting up there alone, crying.” You used their pity to blackmail them, and they gave in in the end. And afterwards, when we were married . . . oh, it doesn’t matter, if only you will stop it.’\\

-->‘I hardly know, Sir. What some people say on earth is that the final loss of one soul gives the lie to all the joy of those who are saved.’\\

--> I was in prison, and you visited me.

--> God created things which had free will ... if a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having.\\

-->‘The morning! The morning!’ I cried, ‘I am caught by the morning and I am a ghost.’ But it was too late. The light, like solid blocks, intolerable of edge and weight, came thundering upon my head. Next moment [... ] the blocks of light were only the books which I had pulled off with [the tablecloth] falling about my head. I awoke in a cold room, hunched on the floor beside a black and empty grate, the clock striking three, and the siren howling overhead.

--> All moments are contained in this moment.

--> [E]very shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind is, in the end, Hell.

ExtremelyShortTimespan: possibly - and also sort of the opposite of the headscratcher below. Not only because [[spoiler: in the end it turns out to have been AllJustADream]]; but InUniverse, this could be [[GeniusBonus referencing]] one of the more obscure bits of Christian theology. If so, then the whole story takes place in one night: the night from [[EitherOrTitle Holy]] Saturday [=/=] Great Sabbath [=/=] [[IHaveManyNames Black]] Saturday evening to Easter Sunday morning; when after dying on Good Friday, Christ descended into hell to get the damned [[DeliveranceFromDamnation out]] before rising from the dead at Easter. Then again, time may not work like that at all in story:

[[quoteright:300:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/blacktulip2.jpg]]
[[WMG: Time is short, and also a good name for a rock band]]
ExtremelyShortTimespan: possibly - and also sort of the opposite of the headscratcher above. Not only because [[spoiler: in the end it turns out to have been AllJustADream]]; but InUniverse, this could be [[GeniusBonus referencing]] one of the more obscure bits of Christian theology. If so, then the whole story takes place in one night: the night from [[EitherOrTitle Holy]] Saturday [=/=] Great Sabbath [=/=] [[IHaveManyNames Black]] Saturday evening to Easter Sunday morning; when after dying on Good Friday, Christ descended into hell to get the damned [[DeliveranceFromDamnation out]] before rising from the dead at Easter. Then again, time may not work like that at all in story:
-> This moment contains all possible moments.