History Headscratchers / SupermanVsTheElite

* So, at the end of the film, Supes informs Black that his team is having their powers removed prior to being sent to a prison. That's all well and good and it makes sense for Menagerie and Coldcast, but the Hat's powers are magical in nature. How do you remove the ability and talent's necessary to do powerful magic like that?

** I guess it was meant to show how callous Black is about collateral damage. Those people were a fair price so that his sister didn't have to die. A nobler person would have felt remorse that it happened and remind themselves that power [[ComesGreatResponsibility Comes Great Responsibility]].

** The problems here is even if Superman was trying to make a point, it's still hypocrisy on his part because he talks about how two wrongs don't make a right he still scared them into submission and performed a different form of Might Makes Right by forcibly taking away The Elite's powers and going on about how his way is the right way. Putting aside The Elite's actions, it seems Superman won't tolerate other forms of morality other than his own.

** The problems here is even if Superman was trying to make a point, it's still hypocrisy on his part because he talks about two wrongs don't make a right he still scared them into submission and performed a different form of Might Makes Right by forcibly taking away The Elite's powers and going on about how his way is the right way. Putting aside The Elite's actions, it seems Superman won't tolerate other forms of morality other than his own.

** The problems here is even if Superman was trying to make a point, it's still hypocrisy on his part because regardless of him not killing The Elite, he still performed a different form of Might Makes Right by forcibly taking away The Elite's powers and going on about how his way is the right way. Putting aside The Elite's actions, it seems Superman won't tolerate other forms of morality other than his own.

** It was too public. The robots would have been seen letting everyone know of the ruse and ruining Superman's point. Supes could easily have the robots help clean things up.

** The point Superman was trying to make was that it's horrible and terrifying to use such inhumane actions on other people, even if you're their enemy. Ina sense, he seemingly treated the Elite EXACTLY as they had been treating bad guys up to this point. Or to put it in simpler terms: "You can dish it out, but you can't take it."

* What the hell is with Lois talking about the deaths on the train from Black's origin like it was just another of their "kill the bad guy" moments? He didn't even know he HAD his powers then! It's nowhere near his fault! Are Lois and Clark really that [[BlackAndWhiteMorality black and white]]?

*** ...Except crippling or dismembering him would be even more crueler than killing him, and doing so would be horribly dickish of them to do so. Police Officers don't cripple criminals to stop them breaking out later, and if they did they'd be in serious trouble for doing so. What you and many others are forgetting is that Superman, and other heroes, aren't trying to punish the guilty, they're protecting the innocent. They're just trying to help their community because they can, and don't have any legal sanctioning to do so. The reason they only go as far as apreending and stopping the criminal is because, legally, that's all they can do.

** On a deeper level, it showed how twisted Might Makes Right is- Superman isn't beloved just because he's got superpowers out the wazoo, it's because he's kind enough to not use 'em to hurt people. Under the Elite's rule of killing anyone who displeased them (including political figures), the world would basically have to kowtow to their will and just hope not to piss them off. Superman turns the tables, his powers making him the supreme authority on all of Earth by Manchester's logic, and showed people that having an unstoppable, all-seeing figure who murders you the second you get out of line isn't as appealing as the Elite made it sound. You don't realize just how scary it is until you see it from someone like Superman, who's usually just so warm and friendly.

*** You have to appreciate a Superman who knows how to use {{Superdickery}} for good.

** The point Superman was trying to make was that it's horrible and terrifying to use such inhumane actions on other people, even if you're their enemy. Ina sense, he seemingly treated the Elite EXACTLY as they had been treating bad guys up to this point. Or to put it in simpler terms: "You can dish it out, but you can't take it."

* Superman invokes BewareOfTheSuperman to prove why their actions of scaring enemy into submission with such methods are wrong and it works. But does this count as hypocrisy on Superman's part and ultimately proves The Elite's right? The reason it worked is by virtue of using fear and scaring them straight.

** Something like that would have to be very precise and more complicated than throwing up a wall. Supes was constantly on the move and as pointed out did not give Black enough time to focus.

**** As pointed out on the YMMV page the Atomic Skull is a walking radioactive skeleton. He has no normal body. Depowering him would kill him. This is different from The Elite who were still essentially human save for a few upgrades.

** Maybe Black was building up to that attack during the entire fight on the moon while his teammates kept Superman distracted so he can focus on setting up his special attack when the time is right. During the second battle, Black is never given enough to just catch his breath and set up the attack again?

** Also, he's got super-capillaries. Black admits that it was pretty tough to do.

** Superman was holding back that time.

* In the final battle, why doesn't Manchester Black pull his "telekinetically damage Superman's capillaries" trick again after the first time? It worked remarkably well before.

* In the final battle, Superman pretends to have become DarkerAndEdgier, just to reveal it as a ruse and his robots saved all civilians from the colateral damage, but what about the property damage? When facing villains in big battles it's unavoidable, but this was a staged battle (at least from Superman's side), so why didn't he have his robots secretly averting it too?

*** ...Except crippling or dismembering him would be even more crueler than killing him, and doing so would be horribly dickish of them to do so. Police Officers don't cripple criminals to stop them breaking out later, and if they did they'd be in serious trouble for doing so. What you and many others are forgetting is that Superman, and other heroes, aren't trying to punish the guilty, they're protecting the innocent. They're just trying to help their community because they can, and don't have any legal sanctioning to do so. The reason they only go as far as apreending and stopping the criminal is because, legally, that's all they can do.

** Because Superman is well-known to have power that brings him straight into PhysicalGod territory. Superman could deal with the Atomic Skull in a million different ways, all non-lethal. He could dismember him so that he's just a head and a torso. He could lobotomize him. He could find a way to de-power him (after all, he de-powers The Elite). He could easily and quickly build a cell that doesn't hold him only so long as nothing goes wrong with the thing they've hooked him up to and doesn't use glass. He could do so many different things, but he doesn't. He tosses him in a cell and hopes really hard that the Atomic Skull doesn't escape again and kill more people for shits and giggles. Superman doesn't even try to prevent it, even though he could.

* This has always bugged me about superhero comics in general when they touch on this topic, but this work especially, since it's part of the main theme: why does everyone act as though it's ''Superman's'' job to execute people like [[AxCrazy Atomic Skull]]? When a cop apprehends a serial killer, most people won't blame the cop if the killer later escapes and kills again; most will say that's the jury/judge's fault for not having him executed, or the prison's fault for letting him escape. A gun can kill Atomic Skull, so it's not like the state is ''unable'' to kill him, and there's no indication that Metropolis doesn't have the death penalty, so why didn't they just execute him, instead of locking him up in a CardboardPrison and then getting pissy at Supes for ''not'' acting as though he was above the law and instead handing over a dangerous criminal to the proper authorities to deal with?

* This has always bugged me about superhero comics in general when they touch on this topic, but this work especially, since it's part of the main theme: why does everyone act as though it's ''Superman's'' job to execute people like [[AxCrazy Atomic Skull]]? When a cop apprehends a serial killer, most people won't blame the cop if the killer later escapes and kills again; most will say that's the jury/judge's fault for not having him executed, or the prison's fault for letting him escape. A gun can kill Atomic Skull, so it's not like the state is ''unable'' to kill him, and there's no indication that Metropolis doesn't have the death penalty, so why didn't they just execute him, instead of locking him up in a CardboardPrison and then getting pissy at Supes for ''not'' acting as though he was above the law?