History Headscratchers / LadyGaga

* Does anyone honestly believe that Gaga's celibate? I dunno, with a decent portion of her songs being about sex, love, and/or relationships, the idea of her being celibate is about as comprehensible as hearing that the VillagePeople are secretly active members of the Westboro Baptist Church.

* Four words. Two sentences. "Self-Esteem." TheOffspring. If you don't find any odd similarities between that & another song...

*** It's also probably that in things like stan wars (fanbases basically shilling their favorite artist while putting down other "competition" artists) it's important to make your artist seem better and it's usually helpful to imply that said artist has more "autonomy" and "authenticity" and that usually ties into old ideas about music that those things make an artist inherently better. Of course this isn't true because artists like BritneySpears (who Gaga fans often put down because of a perceived lack of autonomy partially do to the fact that she doesn't participate in songwriting as much Gaga would claim) play the piano.

*** I always thought the OK sign thing over her eye was a shout-out to DavidBowie. He used to do a similar thing, except with his hand facing down, and considering how Gaga has borrowed from Bowie before...

*** ''"Conspiracy Theory"'' is an all-purpose shutdown to dismiss any idea of the utilisation of media for underhanded propaganda. She isn't using Illuminati symbolism for provocation: her videos and outfits are WAY too blatant and WAY too heavy on this for it to be only promotional material. Along with Music/JayZ, Music/KanyeWest, Music/{{Rihanna}}, and to a lesser extent Music/{{Kesha}} and Music/KatyPerry, she is among the increasing number of artists that now use Masonic and Illuminati symbolism in their videos, which they didn't do in earlier videos.

*** ''"Conspiracy Theory"'' is an all-purpose shutdown to dismiss any idea of the utilisation of media for underhanded propaganda. She isn't using Illuminati symbolism for provocation: her videos and outfits are WAY too blatant and WAY too heavy on this for it to be only promotional material. Along with Music/JayZ, KanyeWest, {{Rihanna}}, and to a lesser extent {{Kesha}} and KatyPerry, she is among the increasing number of artists that now use Masonic and Illuminati symbolism in their videos, which they didn't do in earlier videos.

* Here's something I don't get. In [[http://www.nme.com/news/lady-gaga/56214 this]] interview she compares herself to [[JohnLennon John]] [[Music/TheBeatles Lennon]], saying she is never happy with her work, even if she calls it a masterpiece. Then she says [[http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1653141/lady-gaga-born-this-way-will-be-greatest-album-this-decade.jhtml here]] that her album is going to be the greatest of the decade. If the former is true, how can she have the balls to say the latter?
** Some days she feels like [[{{Oasis}} Noel Gallagher]]? Noel goes around all the time blowing his own horn and then unloads mountains of vitriol on ''Be Here Now''...

*** ''"Conspiracy Theory"'' is an all-purpose shutdown to dismiss any idea of the utilisation of media for underhanded propaganda. She isn't using Illuminati symbolism for provocation: her videos and outfits are WAY too blatant and WAY too heavy on this for it to be only promotional material. Along with JayZ, KanyeWest, {{Rihanna}}, and to a lesser extent {{Kesha}} and KatyPerry, she is among the increasing number of artists that now use Masonic and Illuminati symbolism in their videos, which they didn't do in earlier videos.

**** "I should have left my worries at the door/because I'm letting my neuroses ruin my fun"? I honestly don't think it's hard to make her explanation work.

** It's no less believable than AliceCooper being a devout Christian who runs a Bible study group. (Yes, really.)

** It is possible she is just being edgy with her songs, [[TrueArtIsEdgy because that is apparently true art]], but does not actually mean to make any social or political message about it.

*** Two words: Agent Orange. Also, Offspring ripped off TheBeatles with another one of their hits, "Why Don't You Get a Job?" Similar?

* Here's something I don't get. In [[http://www.nme.com/news/lady-gaga/56214 this]] interview she compares herself to [[JohnLennon John]] [[TheBeatles Lennon]], saying she is never happy with her work, even if she calls it a masterpiece. Then she says [[http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1653141/lady-gaga-born-this-way-will-be-greatest-album-this-decade.jhtml here]] that her album is going to be the greatest of the decade. If the former is true, how can she have the balls to say the latter?

* Why does Beyoncé sometimes feel like she lives in Grand Central [[FunetikAksent Stay-shun]]?[[hottip:*:[[DidNotDoTheResearch which is actually named "Grand Central Terminal"]]]] (Yes, I know she's a guest artist, but "Telephone" is still one of Lady Gaga's songs and was co-written by her)

** She's ''currently'' celibate. That doesn't mean she's a virgin. She probably writes about her past sexual/romantic relationships.

* Her VMA [[BeyondTheImpossible meat]] [[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/13/lady-gagas-meat-dress-photos_n_714117.html dress]].. [[{{Squick}} ewwwwwww]] How is wearing a lump of beef on top of your head supposedly means something against "Don't ask don't tell policy?" It doesn't make any goddamn sense.
** Actually it had a point, [[http://gaga-now.com/the-story-of-gagas-meat-dress/ the designer was interwiewed and he explained the meaning.]] Besides I think it's great cause it is pushing so many fashion boundries.
*** (Not OP): Apologies, but "pushing so many fashion boundries"? It's a lump of beef on her head (and a dress that, one imagines, would smell awful before too long). So while the idea of it being "offensive" is ridiculous, it's still plenty ''stupid''.
*** And since when has fashion been 'smart'?
** Actually the dress smelled really good (according to all those who were around her). Also it's supposed to rot (when it gets put into archive most likely) and will become "a new dress"
*** Didn't she say on Graham Norton that the dress was being "jerked"/preserved?
*** ...ok, that made me laugh, but still! Beef! On head! ''Stupid!''[[hottip:*:And ''dammit'' now I'm hungry!]]
** I agree. I think she crossed a line there.
** In all honesty, the only bad thing I can think of about this dress is the fact that it wasted a lot of perfectly good beef.
** That's why it crossed a line for me personally. It's wasting food...
*** I don't have a link, but one butcher in an interview said that based on the marbling of the meat, it was low quality beef that wouldn't be fit for sale in grocery stores. It also probably fits the themes people below are saying it represents. Dead useless meat.
** Also, what about the ''vegetarians''? Not just straight people choose not to eat meat...
*** I have a bit of FridgeBrilliance (?) here: It's supposed to symbolise how she, and the homosexual community, are just fresh meat for the viewers and the media to eat up.
** I found a quote about it on tumblr. GaGa says "What [she] was really trying to say was dead meat is dead meat, and anyone that's willing to take their life and die for their country in the same. You are not gay and dead, straight and dead. You are dead." so, there you go.
* For the ''Telephone'' video: Gaga and Beyonce go "far, far away" and never come back. The problem? ''They're celebrities in the video''. Gaga is shown on the cover of newspapers and magazines, and right before Beyonce's part, the DJ says that the song being played is ''Telephone''. They can't just go and hide, especially not with the getup they're wearing.
** They'll figure something out in the fianle of the trilogy.

*** Or maybe she was lying as there's nothing lyrically that even points to that direction.

* I can't escape this feeling that she's using her UnlimitedWardrobe and intentionally playing up the "CrazyAwesome" aspect of her public personality to disguise the fact that her music is... well, generic, distinctly non-revolutionary, "meh" SynthPop. Am I wrong here?
** No, you're not wrong at all. If it weren't for the hideous costumes and the over-the-top, Sexed-Up-Peewee-Herman-on-Methamphetamine behavior, she'd be just another C-List girl singer looking for a record deal.
** You are confusing personal apathy with actual fact.
** While you can argue that, I would have to disagree and say I don't think I've ever in my life heard another song with a beat like Paparazzi's.
*** Might I recommend [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JnGBs88sL0 "Say It Right"?]]
*** Paparazzi is in 4/4 time, better known as "common time," with a relatively standard dance tempo of 115 beats per minute.
*** Right. So it's just me. :D But seriously speaking, this is probably her AchillesHeel where I'm concerned: it's impossible for me not to admire her for the David-Bowie's-bastard-child-insane-ninja-time-traveling-assassin-space-alien-overlord personality (yeah, 'tis indeed CrazyAwesome), I just wish the music'd live up to it... Oh well, what the hell do I know about pop music anyway?
*** What I don't get is why do people act like her fashion and antics are anything new. I mean she's been in the public eye for a bit and it's not like her behaviour changed to get attention or something. She even said she doesn't get why people get so offended and shocked by what she does.
**** Different reasons. I'm not offended or shocked though.
***** I'm not a huge fan, but I think her music is at least better than most of the other radio pop they're playing nowadays (though I still don't get why people practically worship her as the best thing to ever happen to music). The constant wardrobe changes do come across as a bit pretentious to me, though.
**** I'd argue that the meaning of some of her stuff flies over people's heads. There are people who accuse her of being a whore. She's not. In fact that's the entire point of "Alejandro". She has three guys persuing her and she doesn't want to be in a relationship.
**** Who says art has to mean anything? I like her because her music is fun to listen to and she has a lot of charisma, I like her, do you need to justify anything beyond that?
*** Gaga has stated that she would like to be remembered as a legend, and to be one you have to do better than "above-average".
*** Says you. Little Monsters believe that she is above "above-average". Besides, is the music going to be the only thing Gaga will be remembered for?
*** Well Madonna and DavidBowie are remembered as a legend and not nessecarily for their music. Sure it's great and all but I believe they really remembered for their antics and 'chameleon' abilities. Besides all that shouldn't a legend be remembered for their effect on people? I will always consider Gaga a legend simply because I connect with her music and image emotinally. And finally I can't remember any artist whose music was 'above-average'. I think most musician's have memorable music and that's it. And one can certainly say GaGa has memorable music.
*** I personally like Gaga, but her music is no where near revolutionary. How is it fair to other artists if she's getting nominated for ''13'' awards because of her antics and not her music? Yes, most awards shows are a popularity contest but still, it doesn't seem right.

*** It is. I haven't seen anything involving the illumanti till like this year so it seems like they just came up with it now. I think she's taking the wacky idea and rolling with it. In turn the theorists actually think there is an illuminati.
*** I'm the poster who brought up the Illuminati. You will notice that I said "meant to be construed". As in, I don't believe she herself is involved with that, but that it is meant to ''evoke'' some Illuminati leanings. I don't buy the conspiracy theory either, I just thought she was being clever and trying to mess with our heads a bit by evoking the all-seeing eye.

*** ''"Conspiracy Theory"'' is an all-purpose shutdown to dismiss any idea of the utilisation of media for underhanded propaganda. She isn't using illuminati symbolism for provocation, her videos and outfits are WAY too blatant and WAY too heavy on this for it to be only promotion material. Along with JayZ, KanyeWest, {{Rihanna}} and, to a lesser extent, {{Kesha}} and KatyPerry, she is among the increasing number of artists that now use Masonic and Illuminati symbolism in their videos, which they didn't do in earlier videos.
* Either its just me or the chorus of Heavy Metal Lover is ripped off from the melody of Music/IronMaiden tune "When the Wild Wind Blows". Before anyone says this is coincidental, do note that she has said Maiden is her favourite band.
* Is anyone besides me the least bit annoyed that Lady Gaga is negatively compared to every artist ever? Look at YouTube comments on a music-related video. There's a good chance that there'll be an "X is awesome. Lady Gaga sucks!!1!one" comment. If the artist of the video is female, then there will ''definitely'' be a negative comment about Gaga. I understand that she is everywhere right now, but it's not like Gaga's the Antichrist of music. Nor is she the only female pop star out there. Nobody ever mentions [[{{Kesha}} Ke$ha]], KatyPerry, MileyCyrus, ChristinaAguilera, {{Rihanna}}, {{Shakira}}, [[{{Pink}} P!nk]], [[{{Beyonce}} Beyoncé]], MariahCarey, JenniferLopez, TaylorSwift, the [[JessicaSimpson Simpson]] [[AshleeSimpson sisters]], AvrilLavigne, or BritneySpears. Why is it just Gaga, and why is it so widespread? AND HOW IS GAGA EVEN RELATED TO THE OTHER ARTIST/BAND?! Even celebrities are bashing her. I'm looking at you two, [[{{MIA}} M.I.A.]] & JoannaNewsom.
** I think M.I.A. was trying to get attention (Grace Jones and Kerli both did the same). Cause if you think about it Lady Gaga is very relevant.
** Sorry to skip the troper below me but I ''have'' seen most of the pop singers you've mentioned on music videos either negatively or positively compared to other musicians such as Lady Gaga herself. I see your point, but I wouldn't say that she's the only one who'd had that happen to her. By the way, I've ''never'' seen Lady Gaga compared to someone else other than on her own videos.
** This troper has seen the opposite happen quite frequently with many artists having their videos or songs criticized while Lady Gaga gets praised. Quite a few of these accuse other artists of copying her. One hilarious example of this are Björks music videos none of which are currently older than 2007. Lady Gaga came into the public's attention in 2008.
*** I don't think I've ever seen that happen. I have seen people act like there's some sort of DoubleStandard with Lady Gaga acting slutty (which she doesn't) and Bjork's video for 'Pagan Poetry'. What these people seem to be forgetting is that Bjork's video features actual rotoscoped sex (of her and her partner Matthew Barney I believe) which is by all means crossing a different line altogether.
**** I've seen that before, but with Goldfrapp instead of Bjork. Someone (granted, on YouTube, where most people are complete idiots) complained that the video for Strict Machine was ripping off Lady Gaga. Never mind that Strict Machine was released in 2003.
** ViewersAreMorons, and no place is that more obvious than [=YouTube=]. I'm waiting for computers to become sentient; brain-dead [=YouTube=] commenters will be the first to go.
** This is especially obvious when it comes to Perez Hilton, bless his little pig heart. He will slag Britney off for wearing something SLIGHTLY revealing and then when Lady is wearing basically nothing with added underwear (At her Little Precious Objects show) and she get's away with it and because she was smart and calls herself "Art". How does that make any sense!
*** 1. Sorry to break it to you, but don't expect Perez to do or say anything that is intelligent. 2. Check Gaga's UnderwearOfPower entry on her page.
**** Maybe not, but the point is that some people will say something negative about what a certain celebrity does and yet will praise Lady Gaga for doing the exact same thing.
*** Perez Hilton should not be viewed as some sort of moral decider on who can get away with what. In fact I'm sure that before Gaga came out that Perez was a huge Britney fan. Also Britney Spears' music is closer to 'throw-away pop music' than Gaga's (mostly do to the fact that Gaga can actually sing and play and instrument).
**** Sorry to break it, but there's a difference in ''how'' you wear "slutty" clothes. In the case of most of Gaga's videos, it's more FetishRetardant than anything. Which explains why it is more accepted than with other female singers who play straight into FetishFuel.
** Except Britney Spears does know how to play an instrument (Piano thank you very much) and can pick hits. Which continue to be hits way after the time their released. Totally throw away RIGHT.
*** Well I've never seen her play the piano. Brit's been criticized for being a 'manufactured pop star'. You can try and argue that Gaga is manufactured but I think there's alot of proof to say she is not. And like it or not Gaga's performances have an art to them. Plus Brit lip-syncs to some of her shows. Sure Gaga uses a backing track but she's never lip-synced. Also [[YourMileageMayVary I'm sure there are people who think Brit's music is just awful.]]
**** And there are also people who think Gaga's music is just awful. If Britney has throw-away pop music just because some people think she's a manufactured pop star, some people have never seen her play a piano, some people think she can't sing and don't like her music, and some people don't like her performances then Lady Gaga and just about every other artist on the planet should be considered to have throw-away music.
** I don't get why being a "manufactured pop star" has to do with the fact that the music is timeless and alot of people, world wide enjoy it, for a long time after it's immediate release. Even if they don't appreciate the art behind it (Britney, not Gaga, Gaga being the timeless piano playing artist, Britney being a 'manufactured' pop star.). I don't get how the piano playing thing goes into the fact she gets alot of hits and, somehow due to the fact she playes piano, means automatically none of them are thrown away. This isn't even true most of the time. Even though Just Dance hasn't been played on the radio since 08 and Womanizer has been played recently on the radio. I just find it hard to believe touted, shown musical talant (Piano or otherwise) = timelessness or lack of throw away ability. The fact that the song is good, well done, has distance on it, is enjoyable, regardless of who wrote it, decides its ultimate long term lastingness (Not a word, I don't care). Not the fact that Gaga and others micro managed it to death/wrote it/produced it. A hit song is a hit song. I mean, Michael Jackson didn't write all of his songs and they are all timeless = not throw away pop, the same could be said for Madonna's earlier work. She didn't write it all. Does it mean they are "Thrown away" because she didn't write them. No. It's just a faulty logic, because it ignores the most obvious thing. The song itself. It also ignores the actually concept of: Throw Away means nobody goes back to the song after it's a hit. This has nothing to do with who wrote it, why they wrote it, who picked it as a single, et cetera. What matters is the song and Britney's songs are hits and have serious radio distance and personal replay ability. Even if she was a manufactured artist, which if people bothered to actually think about and watched her dvd's (Circus Bonus DVD/In The Zone bonus DVD et cetera) would realize she's nothing of the sort. Which doesn't even matter in the long run, what matters is the songs and how good they are.
None of the things you say (Manufactured, haven't seen her do the piano, lip syncing) actually matter in the world where songs can get old fast and not be played after the intial infatuation, regardless of who wrote it and why.

* I'm sorry, but will she just ''get off'' her gay rights binge? Don't get me wrong, it's a worthy cause, but she just has such a patronizing, infantilizing way of going about it, and at the same time gives the impression that opponents of DADT are just [[YaoiFangirl voting from the pants]] and/or moderately insane. She ''can't'' be helping.
** It is not a binge. She wants to fight for something she feels is right. Sure she may not go about it the right way but she's young.
** Uh, she's [[BiTheWay bisexual]], a huge gay icon and a LargeHam of the most epic degree, how else would she fight it? Stephanie is dead, and with it, logic, reason, and sanity.
*** [[CrowningMomentOfFunny She did name the rally speech 'The Prime Rib of America.']]
*** Yeah. I'm kind of over it personally. I think you're onto something there.
** Its a gimmick, just like the rest of her. She's 100% style over substance.

* Why does everyone assume that she and Jo Calderone are the same person? Everybody seems to be running with this idea but I find it hard to believe. I mean there is very little evidence only a few coincidences. Plus she never ever said anything about it.

* [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESGLojNYSo&ob=av3e.html This]] compared to [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRILEQhJqoo.html this.]] I know music is subjective and all, but its almost like she tries not to sing well on her recorded music. I think if she went from non-original synth pop to a musically diverse range of genres, she would make some fantastic music.
** YourMileageMayVary. Poker Face is just one song. She has alot more synthpop songs that don't have auto-tune on them.

* This tropers only complaint is that everybody seems to think Lady Gaga is the only pop princess who has known an instrument ever, and therefore she's instantly more talented then everybody else in the game...meanwhile in reality, Britney Spears, Demi Lovato, Taylor Swift, Selena Gomez and many other do. Just because they don't rely on it to perform does not mean they don't know the instrument. It's quite immature to jump to conclusions like that.

*** If this is true I would hardly call her a Prodigy, I've seen her play Piano and she doesn't even compare to that little black kid, Franklin, from My Wife and Kids. You can see her videos from before she went Gaga on Youtube and her piano skills are at best above average.
** But everybody still insists that she is the only person who knows the piano. This is just flat out lying.
** Lots of people seem to insist that she's the only person who knows an instrument at all. Most of the artists mentioned by the OP(although I can only safely say Demi, Taylor, and Britney) can use an instrument and yet Lady Gaga seems to erase people's minds of these facts


* Four words. Two sentences. Self-Esteem. TheOffspring. If you don't find any odd similarities between that & another song...

* This troper is bugged when people call Gaga stuff like 'princess of pop' or 'queen of pop'. The title in general suggests that all female pop stars are in some sort of battle to be supreme which I'm certain they are not.
** Blame Michael Jackson, the King of Pop.
*** Although [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] on that. I say Prince, others say M.J.[[hottip:*: Please don't hurt me!]]
*** That's what bugs me. It just casues people to argue over stupid stuff.

* JBM: Everybody treats Lady Gaga as if she is some kind of "world changing sensation" when in reality, she's an average pop star that will be largely forgotten 10 years from now. How do I know that she'll be forgotten? More talented singers such as Celine Dion and Christina Aguilera have already been moved out of the spotlight and they were entertainment "icons" not very long ago.
** ...and yet, Madonna and Lauper are still around from long ago, and neither Dion nor Aguilera were ever ''this'' big. Even when Aguilera came closest, it was a comeback from her days as TheRival to BritneySpears! Finally, if Dion is a "more talented singer," why is it that her voice ''itself'' has developed a {{hatedom}}, while Gaga's nearly always attacks her songwriting and attention whoring, generally calling her voice SoOkayItsAverage?
** Cindy Lauper has actual talent and Madonna is (and has always been) a self-promoting attention whore. While Lady GaGa is definitely the latter, the former seems to have eluded her.
** You might think Gaga will be gone in ten years but I'm certain your wrong. Say what you want but she knows how to market herself. And besides that both Christina and Celine have fanbases. Christina's fanbase (I'm not sure of Celine's)seem to geniunely be devoted to her. Gaga's fanbase is exactly the same. As long as you have a devoted fanbase you won't be completely forgotten. And I definetly don't think that ChristinaAguilera or CelineDion have at all been forgotten. Do you remeber when everyone was saying that Ke$ha was going to be the new Lady Gaga and that everyone would forget her? Well it never happened.
** You two aren't particularly {{Genre Savvy}} are you? There have been literally DOZENS (if not hundreds) of female singers/divas that have preceded Lady GaGa. Frankly,unlike GaGa, most of them actually had to have singing ability and stage presence, something that it would it more than charitable to ascribe to Ms. GaGa. And the majority of them are now struggling to find work, if they are still performing (or are still alive.) Lady GaGa is a media creation that, for now at least, is selling CD's. When she has reached the end of her rather limited talent range (which,given the lack of recent significant publicity about her performing seems to be nigh)or when her antics become tiresome, she'll be relegated to the dustbin of history. And given the fact that she can't sing w/o serious studio "assistance" it's not clear that she'll even have a successful second act 10-15 years down the road like the greats sometimes do. I'll be even less charitable: She's not very talented...she's not very pretty..and she's not endearing herself to anybody beyond the small group of people calling themselves her fans. This is not the recipe for long-term success and it definitely won't make her memorable beyond the next few years.
** I recommend you remove this unless you want to get banned. This isn't the place for your opinion. Take that crap to youtube. Besides that I've seen her live and there are enough videos out there (pre-Fame) that are enough to prove that she is talented. And who says she needs to be pretty to be talented. And for that matter who the hell are you to determine who is talented and who isn't. Also you who are not part of the fanbase would have no clue as to what the size it is. Even if she had a small fanbase why does that matter? As long as she can touch the heart of one person that's all that should matter. And suppose that she was to fade away from the public eye, she would still have fans. So how about instead of trolling to make yourself feel better why don't you do something productive with your time?
*** Yo, dude. This ''is'' the place for opinions. In fact, this is exactly the place for negative opinions - take a look at what this page ''is''. Shockingly, not everyone agrees with you so get over it. Don't want to see negative comments on your favourite pop princess? Might I suggest not going places where negative comments are allowed?
*** Also I must tastefully disagree with your opinion of her pre-Gaga work. She was at best mediocre, or as DOB aptly described her "Like Christina Aguilera's little sister if she never had voice lessons".
** Is that how this works? You don't like my opinion and so you threaten to "ban me?" If Lady Ga Ga is your favorite...fine. If I'm wrong about her being a talentless flash in the pan...that's fine as well. Frankly,she's shown little in the way of long term staying power and seems to be concentrating her rather limited abilities on getting her picture in the media and not on improve her skills. Sorry that people observing that fact bothers you.Perhaps you should get used to people criticizing things that you like. It's part of becoming an adult.
*** Well trolling usually gets you banned. I'm not offended by criticism. What offends me is that the just bugs me section isn't for haters to come and talk about what they hate. If you hate her and want to complain about it go somewhere like youtube. This is a place for the fans to complain. If you are not a fan get out.
*** He's not trolling. And who gave you the authority to decide who can write about Lady Gaga here?

** These pages usually lean toward nitpicking by fans rather than attacks by anti-fans. We had a page for attacks by anti-fans, but it turned ugly, so we got rid of it. LadyGaga has proven her unassisted singing ability time and time again even if she usually chooses to go for machine effects instead, her stage presence is a flat-out bizarre thing to attack, there isn't a single "flash in the pan" who's hit her heights (if nothing else, we'll remember how crazy everyone got in '09-10), and I can't comprehend the chauvinistic frame of mind that makes "she's not very pretty" sound like anything resembling a valid criticism, especially when the thesis is "she's just another ephemeral pretty face." Also, wrapping paragraphs in bulleted headings is ugly.
*** I don't know what your definition for proving her singing ability is, but she certainly hasn't proven that it is anywhere near the level of most famous singers out there. Her singing is Okay, I'm not saying I could do better, but I'm also saying she probably wouldn't make it pass the first stage of American Idol. Her style, that's the thing, it isn't "her" style so much as it is her producers and handlers and agents style is bizarre but it is nowhere near revolutionary. Madonna, Bowie, Manson, KISS, and Pat Benatar were all doing the same stuff but when they were doing it it was "theirs".
* Really? No other "flash in the pans",eh? How about: Tiffany,Dionne Farris,Donna Lewis,Vanessa Carlton...there are many more,but those are all relatively recent performers who had legions of fans who now are either not performing or wouldn't be recognized by most people if they walked past them on the street. Lady GaGa will join them soon enough despite anybody's protests to the contrary. And who said she was "she's just another ephemeral pretty face" other than you,troper? While her looks shouldn't be a measure of her talent,it would be charitable to call GaGa anything other than a plain women made up look like a star. And since she chosen to enter a business where she is judged by her looks AND her talent,she has placed herself in a position where her looks are up for debate,hasn't she?
** But there are alot of other female musicians who aren't judged on her looks. So why must she be judged.
** Because,unlike most other female musicians,Ga Ga emphasized her "looks" over talent and stage presence. Most female musicians don't appear on a magazine cover wearing a "rifle bra" nor do they attend baseball games wearing toilet paper clothing. The ones that do,are probably going to be judged as talentless attention whores as people w/ talent don't really require "gimmicks",do they?
*** Actually Lady Gaga has said numerous times that she is not trying to be pretty. I highly doubt that she is valuing her looks over stage presence.
** Really? So she doesn't choose to wear all of those ridiculous outfits that show off her body? She's just "forced" to wear them? By whom? I appreciate you posting that troper as I now have yet another thing Lady Ga Ga that just bugs me: Her disingenuous nature.
*** No she chooses to wear them because as she sees it she is rebelling against the idealized image of the american woman. She stated this to Larry King. If you are going to make comments like that maybe you should research what 'bugs' you about her before you decide it's a good idea to post.
** That doesn't even sound like an intelligent statement. Who considered her an "idealized image of an American woman?" Other than herself? And how does wearing skimpy clothing and appearing in public half-nude, "rebelling?" Does Lady Ga Ga even know the definition of the word? And if she does , given all that pop performers have to do to become famous, is "rebelling" even a realistic proposition? And why should I "research" what bugs me? I know what bugs me. And if it "bugs me" then I obviously don't like it and any additional research would probably (although not definitely) lead me to dislike it even more. Finally, this troper was unaware that shaping his posts to suit your tastes was purpose of this page.
*** No one viewed her as an idealized woman. Popstars in general are supposed to look a certain way and she decided that she would not be like that. And mind you she's hardly half-naked in public (given some exceptions). Well she seemed to become famous and successful by being that way so you might think it's unrealistic but it worked. If you don't reaserch what bugs you than you have no right to complain about it. Don't make statements that are untrue. Frankly it makes you look stupid. Also this has nothing to do with my tastes. This is about how you think your opinion is a fact.
* How,exactly, does my not wanting to waste valuable time (other than the time wasted arguing w/ you) on Lady Ga Ga make me stupid? I know who she is,what her songs are and I have seen her perform on television and in a few videos. I have also read articles about her. None of those things makes me think any more of her as a performer. In fact, had I never heard of her nor seen her, I would likely have a much higher opinion of her than I do now.
** Really troper aren't you being both stupid and rather foolish to think that a musician that you like is someone that others should also like as much as you do? Or that you liking her somehow exempts her from criticism? Or that liking her will change the realities of the entertainment business (e.g. performers grow older,tastes change) that mean her time in the spotlight will be brief? Since I don't know the woman and she's not paying me, I could care less what she does. I've stated that I didn't like her as a musician, that she bugs me and why she bugs me. If that bugs you, isn't that your problem,troper?
** Look if you think your wasting your time arguing with me then get out. Also it's logic that you don't go around making statements that have no backing. That sometihng you learn very early on in school. So basically you don't like her cause she's famous? I never stated that everyone should like her or that she's exempt from criticism. Clearly you care what she does cause you've felt the need to constantly return here and argue your point. However coming to the just bugs me section to say you hate an artist is not what you should. As stated above just bugs me is a fans area. This wouldn't even be acceptable if you were a fan. Also what makes you think her time in the spotlight will be short? Have you miraculously looked into the future and seen it? If you want to hate go somewhere else cause I'm certain that tv tropes is not the place to complain about things. It's so obvious now that you just like the attention.
** I don't care Lady Ga Ga because I don't think she's talented...because I can't stand attention-whores and because I think that she is distracting attention from more talented and deserving artists that are out there who can't compete w/ the sideshow freakishness that is has been her career so far. If Ga Ga is as talented as you are claiming that she is, then she shouldn't have to use gimmicks or publicity stunts like the baseball game TP incident to call attention to herself,should she? Her talent would speak for itself it was/is as strong as you claim it to be,wouldn't it?
** 1: '''''Stop trying to write in paragraphs when you've started with a bullet point!''''' It's ''incredibly'' annoying, visually. 2: I don't remember seeing Dionne Farris screaming on C-Span. I don't remember Vanessa Carlton breaking records that had stood since TheBeatles. If this is a flash in the pan, it's a pretty damn bright one. 3: Sexy != pretty. 4: Just because an outfit is sexually charged doesn't mean it's meant to be sexy. 5: I'm not sure I agree that this is a "fans area," but comments amounting to "this is commodity art and you're all sheep" aren't the kind of good-natured grievances these pages usually get. 6: You come here, make subjective statements with objective force, and then when people put out counterpoints, many of them objective, pull "de gustibus non disputandum" from your sleeve? 7: Just because you didn't say something in a particular wording doesn't mean you didn't say it.
** Using your logic troper, because Ga Ga (or her publicity machine) have put her face and music in non-traditional areas, that someone makes better than acts that preceded her? And why isn't this commodity art? Music is a business at its core. Lady Ga Ga's financial success and not anything revolutionary that she's done musically is why she's all over the media. When the financial machine that she is starts grinding to halt (which appears to be happening)Lady Ga Ga will become yesterday's news. That will not be my fault and it is reasonable to assume that it will happen that since it's happened to other more talented artists. Also, what "counterpoints" have people put out against my opinion? All I've seen are attacks on me because I expressed an my opinions about not liking this performer and why I don't like her. To be be a functional counterpoint,doesn't it require that more than "you're stupid" and "You're wrong" be involved?
* Better? No, but it makes her less likely to be forgotten. "Commodity" doesn't just mean "saleable," but "interchangeable," like lentils, or in the case of art, asking no evaluation beyond basic competence, like greeting cards. The points that have been made are that most of the artists you've named either have ''not'' been forgotten or were never as big in the first place, that she's proven her ability to sing without autotune even if she uses it in some songs, that you're trying to assert the absence of something (innovation) while considering only the subset least likely to contain it ("not wasting your time"), and that you're reading in a goal (attractiveness) that no one who's been paying attention thinks she's aiming for.
* I think you're all CompletelyMissingThePoint, haters and fans alike. I see LadyGaga as fascinating because she almost seems like a Faustian figure. Unlike other soulless celebrities that were raised that way, she became that way herself. It's such an amazing, tragic life story. I was already a fan of LadyGaga, but I became really obsessed when I saw the video of her singing as Stephanie Germanotta, before LadyGaga was invented. It just makes it so clear that she used to be a real person and she naively gave it up to change the world, but in the process she lost her humanity.
** And that's why this troper will play along with her game. I like her song Poker Face, but after that, she's disposable. . if she can't top that in my eyes. I really don't care about the radical looks or ideals or how much auto-tune or how much talented or lack thereof, it's the song that matters. {{YMMV}}
* I think a lot of people who are posting here are CompletelyMissingThePoint. LadyGaga is not some radical genius who is breaking records with her amazing edginess, or a misunderstood talented songstress, or even the next evolution of music. She's just some chick, who wanted to be famous, and looked at the pool of people just like her, who were more talented than her, and prettier than her, and said "I have to do things differently". So she let a bunch of corporations, and stylists and advertisers and marketers dress her up funny and put her up on stage. If you think she is making up these costumes and performances by herself you are in denial. She's just another corporate shill in a long line of corporate shills, and the reason that she is breaking all these records is because they are absolutely pushing the envelope of what society will accept, and in the end there are only two things that can happen to Lady Gaga, 1) she can push the envelope until she crosses some arbitrary social line we have drawn, or 2) she can stagnate and die. Her concept can't work forever, that is why real artists either have Lady Gaga-esque phases (for lack of a better term) that are eventually abandoned or are a toned downed version of what Lady Gaga is where their music is emphasized over their crazy bullshit (i.e. Bowie, Madonna(on her good days), Manson(On his good days), etc.). People who are arguing that she will be popular 10, or even 5, years from now are crazy her schtick is not one that can last for that long due to its emphasis on surprise. Lady Gaga isn't a person, she's a persona, any girl could have been Lady Gaga if they were the right combination of desperate for fame and borderline talented, but if Stephanie whatever-her-name-is thinks she is going to be able to wipe off her makeup and put on some normal clothes and still be popular she is crazy.
** In think you've hit the nail on the head. She is a sellout, and while she might have some iota of talent in there, it's not something incredibly special... she's in no way a musical genius. People love her image, but that's all there is to her.
* Really, why is Lady Gaga always such a LoveItOrHateIt thing? I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of her music, because it's not really the kind I usually listen to, but you have to admit that she's got some real talent. Her voice is amazing, and I love how she expresses herself. Why can't people get that whether you're a fan of her or not, you don't need to call her a "talentless, sell-out, manufactured, tasteless, transsexual, slutty, egocentric diva who will be forgotten in 5 years". I mean seriously, you just make yourself sound like an idiot with that kind of pointless bashing.
** The only pointless and rude bashing you mentioned was the transsexual comment and talent is a matter of opinion not fact (it cannot be measured). Now as far as the other "insults" go, they fit her style pretty well: egocentric diva who will be forgotten in 5 (or so) years, tasteless (she's definitely an acquired taste), sell-out, manufactured and despite her claims to being a virgin you can't deny the extreme sexuality of her works and antics.
*** She never claimed to be a virgin. It can be figured out pretty easily from interviews that she isn't one. She's simply decided to be celibate (i.e., not have any more sex) for the time being.
** The LoveItOrHateIt thing with Lady Gaga usually has nothing to do with her musical talent. I'm not a fan of her music or her genre of music in general, but I still admit that she does have musical talent. Even so, I still don't like her. The reason is because of the things she does. To me, without all the eccentric dresses and stage performances and acts, she wouldn't be treated as so much more special as other artists. Some say it's her just being individual and what not but I can name a handful of artists who do strange (not as strange as Gaga perhaps) things and yet are still focused mostly on their music. I also don't like how many of things she does are supposed to have meaning. Arriving in an egg or wearing a meat dress? Really?

* Born This Way - I can't defend this. She seemed to be getting better, but this song is so blatantly plagiarized that it's gone past "tribute" all the way to "filk," and the lyrics are disgustingly patronizing. Yes, you're bisexual, we know, but being a bisexual woman is ''quite far'' from being a gay man, especially since your most prominent actual involvement with DADT thus far has been in the form of a massive security clusterfuck. And what, did you think people wouldn't notice? Did you really think you could call it a "tribute" when there's nothing ''else'' to the song? I can only hope the rest of the album is better than ''that''.
** I dunno about bisexuality ''actually'' being less stigmatized than homosexuality. There's stigma against bisexuality even among gays because it may seem like a cop-out--"I'm not ''totally'' gay." Everything else about the song I agree with, however.
** As an Asian, I can't say I appreciate being called "from the Orient". That struck me as the stereotypical [[SomethingPositive "ornamental oriental"]]. And what about the genderqueer/GLBT women, as well as the StraightGay men? Defending people is one thing, blatant objectification is another. The Fandumb cries of "You just don't get it!!!" aren't helping, either.
** You do realise that she has done more than the whole DADT thing for the LGBT community, right? This song was more than DADT anyway- and I don't get how this was patronizing. I honestly don't get it. It just sounds like you're forcing it to be offensive. Also, while I understand how non-campy gays wouldn't exactly appreciate the Queen of the Camps' odd way of going about defending them, I still don't see the harm in the song. She isn't even stereotyping homosexuals in the song, nor the music video. Maybe I'm just decoding-retarded. I just interpreted it as a feel good song about loving yourself despite what society's standards are. God forbid we have any of those. Let's just stick with the songs about getting shit faced and fucking your best friend's boyfriend.
*** just because a song is deep does not mean it's good, there are plenty songs out of the charts which talk about what Gaga talks about, without the offensive terms and the listing.
** There's also the fact that she uses the word ''chola'' in the song, which is pretty offensive to Latinas. [[http://wowgaga.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/lady-gaga-a-racist-born-this-way-stirs-controversy-my-latino-voice/ This article helps explain why exactly it's offensive]]. I mean, honestly? There wasn't any other word she could have used? I'm all for the message about loving yourself and being accepting of everyone, but the sentiment of the song is kinda killed by the derogatory words.
** I guess I see the song in a different light, but I see the song as a triumphant VillainSong taking advantage of assorted other causes (anti-racism, homosexual rights, etc) to justify the singer's own acts of evil. (Yes, I ignore the video and only listen to the song itself.) In this context, the slurs make perfect sense-of course she's going to wind up in a DidNotDoTheResearch situation and be offensive to the people she's trying to take advantage of, she doesn't really care about anyone except herself. I love LadyGaga, but I often try to interpret her songs sinisterly, I guess.

* I'm a huge Lady Gaga fan, but I'm still confused about the Born This Way video. There's a promise for an epic plot, and then, suddenly... no plot. I think the cinematography, choreography, and song are all quite good, but... I don't know.
* Ma'am, I am sorry to say that you were not born this way. You were born Stephanie Germanotta with brown hair and a human life. Anyone can be comfortable with a false public persona they've created, but to be at peace with who you REALLY are, with all the zits, insecurities, and skeletons in the closet, that's tough. It's not that I don't support Miss Germanotta having a stage alter-ego, I just don't think it's healthy -as a role model or for her personally- to get lost in it.
** Thank you! I thought I was the only one who was wondering why the woman who artificially nuked her hair with bleach and hides behind ridiculous clothes was supposed to be telling me how to accept myself for who I am.
** As quite the hammy person myself, I'd have to disagree with this. It's just part of our nature to go over the top and decorate ourselves with hair-dye, tattoos, and body glitter. Then again, the whole Lady Gaga=?=Stephanie is a YMMV topic. However, I think it has more to do with how you feel inside and what your 'destiny' (as she has discussed in interviews) is then what's on the outside. The whole 'transgender life' bit kind of hints at that.
*** It's better for her to have a stage persona. Think of it this way: if she went as Stephanie on stage, that means that she would be Stephanie 24-7, with the paparazzi chasing after ''Stephaine'' and ''Stephanie'' becoming a fame whore and forgetting who she really was. With two personas, she can switch from Stephanie with her family and Gaga with the celebrity crowd at any time. Think {{GIFT}}, but with meat dresses.
* Even if you hate her you kinda have to feel sorry for the whole demonization she's receiving just for slipping in a concert.
* I can tell she's trying to go for a different sound with "Born This Way" and "Judas," but... Eh. It feels like she lost whatever it was that made her other two albums feel distinctive. Yeah, yeah, TheyChangedItNowItSucks, I know, but... I couldn't be able to tell you what it is, but it just feels like ''The Fame'' and ''The Fame Monster'' had something about them that felt interesting and distinctive, and whatever it was, "Born This Way" and "Judas" just... don't have it. They sound bland, generic, and samey, and kinda like a cross between a dance remix and a cover that missed the meaning.
** Unlike many, I actually liked Born This Way, but Judas really just felt like she mixed together several of her older songs and slapped religious themes on top.
** I agree, Judas has nearly the exact same structure as Bad Romance.
** Yeah, I know what you mean. I just listened to Born This Way (the album) and as a whole, I found it to have lost so much of whatever made the other two special. The songs just blurred together in one giant mess of generic pop tunes, and I ended up with about five out of seventeen songs I liked. Damn it.

** Somedays she feels like [[{{Oasis}} Noel Gallagher]]? Noel goes around all the time blowing his own horn and then unloads mountains of vitriol on ''Be Here Now''...
* Judas just bugs me. The verse has this sort of pounding beat, then the chorus has a different style beat that sounds less rock/metal and more dance/pop. But the way the beat stops and starts just before the chorus makes it sounds like the chorus is FASTER. Listen to the song. I haven't checked it with a metronome, but it feels like the chorus is at a faster tempo than the verse. Being a music nerd, this really bothers me. I know they're probably the same tempo, but the fact that they SOUND like they're at different speeds is incredibly frustrating. This isn't anything related to Lady Gaga as a person; it's a critique of Judas.
** It's more like the beat itself is different. The tempo is pretty much the same.
* "Highway Unicorn." It's not ''bad'', just... [[FlatWhat what]].
* As someone who's very unfamiliar with this lady beyond the usual pop culture reference made referring to her, I'm just gonna ask the basic question... Why? Why everything she does? I'm not asking because I think she needs to get out of music or anything, I'll admit she has talent. But I just can't comprehend, I need someone to explain it to me, why is she so... abstract (if that's the right word)? Is there a point to be made? If so, what is it? How does her mind work? This lady is a walking MindScrew for me, and I'd appreciate finally learning something. Again, not complaining, just very confused, a Head Scratcher.
** Because to be straightforward is boring. The lyrics in her songs make you think of several interpretations which makes them ten times better. As for her costumes, she once told Barbara Walters that if she is freaky enough then other people in the world who are considered "freaky" by bullies will stop getting bullied.
** Because she thinks its fun to do and a lot of people seem to agree with her.
* About Born This Way: At one point it mentions "transgendered life". But if "God makes no mistakes", why weren't the transgendered born in the right sex?
** Gender is an identity. One can have female parts but identify with males. I am mix-raced but I identify my race as Hispanic.
* Why does the record label insist on only releasing her albums with the cursing censored? Some of us are actually able to palate swear words just fine.
** I've heard this is her doing. It's a good plan. Release the censored version first, while the album is hot and then released the uncensored version later while no one is paying attention. [[WildMassGuessing WMG]] on my part though.
* Does anyone honestly believe that Gaga's celibate? I dunno, with a decent portion of her songs being about sex, love, and/or relationships, the idea of her being celibate is about as comprehendable as hearing that the VillagePeople are secretly active members of the Westboro Baptist Church.

*** It's still pretty jarring, and it kinda hurts her cool factor a bit too.
**** ...[[UnfortunateImplications ...since when are celibate/single people less "cool"?]]
**** But what about her currant/past boyfriend Luc Carl or whoever, according to You and I their relationship was particularly physical. IE ''Made Love For the first time'' and her new FriendsWithBenefits/boyfriend shared the screen with her on her "You and I" video.
* One thing which she does which I don't like is the making superficially large explanations for songs which should have simple obvious meanings, or even her actions. It's just lacks integrity in some of her choices.

* Speaking Voice. She needs to work on it. Even in clearly off the cuff interviews the way she modulates her voice makes her sound completely scripted.

** Actually the dress smelled really good (according to all those who were around her). Also it's supposed to rot (when it gets put into archive most likely) and will become "a new dress" the dress was being "jerked"/preserved?
*** Didn't she say on Graham Norton that

** Actually the dress smelled really good (according to all those who were around her). Also it's supposed to rot (when it gets put into archive most likely) and will become "a new dress".

**** But what about her currant/past boyfriend Luc Carl or whoever, according to You and I their relationship was particularly physical. IE ''Made Love For the first time'' and her new FBuddie who was her dancer...

**** But what about her currant/past boyfriend Luc Carl or whoever, according to You and I their relationship was particularly physical. IE ''Made Love For the first time'' (I genuinely don't care either way)