Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / GoldenSun

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Jenna named Matthew.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Or maybe he simply doesn't have the PP for long-distance teleporting at the time.

to:

** Or maybe he simply [[GameplayAndStorySegregation doesn't have the PP PP]] for long-distance teleporting at the time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** It is, literally, TheThemeParkVersion. And one of defining charateristics of that trope is...?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Konpa Ruins have a way for Kraden, Nowell, and Rief to inside (With with the water puddles and vines), I can understand that they used Cold Snap to get there, BUT don't you need the Ice Queen's Gem to use Cold Snap?
** Kraden mentions specifically that it was Nowell's Psynergy that got them into the ruins, so presumably Nowell knows Frost/Cold Snap/equivalent.
*** Alright. Also, What happan to Frost's Utility? In fact Why did Frost got replaced by Douse?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

***Alright. Also, What happan to Frost's Utility? In fact Why did Frost got replaced by Douse?

Added: 363

Changed: 706

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** Erosion doesn't happen evenly; there might have been a spire or something for Alex to stand on, overlooking the crater.




to:

** They didn't even use the same design for Tyrell later, so my guess is they were still working on character designs when that promo art was released.




* Konpa Ruins have a way for Kraden, Nowell, and Rief to inside (With with the water puddles and vines), I can understand that there used Cold Snap to get there up there, BUT don't you need the Ice Queen's Items to used Cold Snap?

to:

\n*** Yeah, they mention it's Tret in the training grounds. One of the signs you can read for prompting specifically says to burn away Tret's anger so his nice side will show again, or something like that.

* Konpa Ruins have a way for Kraden, Nowell, and Rief to inside (With with the water puddles and vines), I can understand that there they used Cold Snap to get there up there, BUT don't you need the Ice Queen's Items Gem to used use Cold Snap?Snap?
** Kraden mentions specifically that it was Nowell's Psynergy that got them into the ruins, so presumably Nowell knows Frost/Cold Snap/equivalent.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Konpa Ruins have a way for Kraden, Nowell, and Rief to inside (With with the water puddles and vines) I can understand that there used Cold Snap to get there up there, BUT don't you need the Ice Queen's Items to used Cold Snap?

to:

* Konpa Ruins have a way for Kraden, Nowell, and Rief to inside (With with the water puddles and vines) vines), I can understand that there used Cold Snap to get there up there, BUT don't you need the Ice Queen's Items to used Cold Snap?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


* Konpa Ruins have a way for Kraden, Nowell, and Rief to inside (With with the water puddles and vines) I can understand that there used Cold Snap to get there up there, BUT don't you need the Ice Queen's Items to used Cold Snap?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Is there a trope for the inverse of Gameplay And Story Segregation?

Added DiffLines:

*** ... holy crap this just [[FridgeBrilliance finally made me come to terms with the TLA ending]].


Added DiffLines:

** He's just been shown playing around with his shiny new powers a lot. [[FridgeBrilliance He drained himself out of PP.]] (Thank you, other Troper who mentioned PP earlier on this page.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** But they never say in the training ground that it's Tret, or even that that part represents Kolima Forest. This Troper found it very funny how it was purposely not mentioned so as to freak out newcomers to the series as much as the characters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* The surprise that Tret is a tree. I recall it being part of the adept training grounds, one of the few things it gets right.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** So... he has some Venus Djinn and thus a Revive-granting class?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Because it's not intended as a MeaningfulName. After all, "Isaac" means "he who laughs", and [[HeroicMime we don't really]] [[SilentProtagonist see Isaac laugh a lot]].

to:

** Because Or because it's not ''not'' intended as a MeaningfulName. After all, "Isaac" means "he who laughs", and [[HeroicMime we don't really]] [[SilentProtagonist see Isaac laugh a lot]].

Added: 316

Changed: 738

Removed: 38

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Garet bemoans Isaac's acceptance of the quest, the Mayor berates Garet, the Wise One offers cryptic instructions and advice (including to look for Djinn), partly through the Great Healer, the Great Healer and the other Healers wander off, and Dora and the Mayor decide to send the boys off "Tomorrow."
Nothing in that about not coming back.

to:

** Garet bemoans Isaac's acceptance of the quest, the Mayor berates Garet, the Wise One offers cryptic instructions and advice (including to look for Djinn), partly through the Great Healer, the Great Healer and the other Healers wander off, and Dora and the Mayor decide to send the boys off "Tomorrow."
" Nothing in that about not coming back.



*** Yeah, I just figured the promise happened offscreen, too.



** Or maybe he simply doesn't have the PP for long-distance teleporting at the time.



*** Because Kraden is [[BadassGrandpa Badfreakingass]].

to:

*** Because Kraden [[MemeticBadass Kraden]] is [[BadassGrandpa Badfreakingass]].



**** That's not my point, my point is, even knowing this Isaac's party is still willing to go on the mission he gave them, as if the fact that the person who gave them it was a twisted old tyrant didn't come into the equation at all.

to:

**** *** That's not my point, my point is, even knowing this Isaac's party is still willing to go on the mission he gave them, as if the fact that the person who gave them it was a twisted old tyrant didn't come into the equation at all.



**** Completely unrelated, but I remember having a fun time writing fanfic in which Garet was highly suspicious of Babi and kept calling him an evil twit.

to:

**** *** Completely unrelated, but I remember having a fun time writing fanfic in which Garet was highly suspicious of Babi and kept calling him an evil twit.



**** GameplayAndStorySegregation. But if you want justification, well, it's probably easier to do the proper healing techniques in a calm building then it is in the middle of a field surrounded by monsters, or worse, actual combat. Mia learning Revive is just learning how to do it ''fast.''
***** Or the kid just has the right material... like a bunch of Waters of Life, and that's what he makes you pay for.

to:

**** *** GameplayAndStorySegregation. But if you want justification, well, it's probably easier to do the proper healing techniques in a calm building then it is in the middle of a field surrounded by monsters, or worse, actual combat. Mia learning Revive is just learning how to do it ''fast.''
***** *** Or the kid just has the right material... like a bunch of Waters of Life, and that's what he makes you pay for.



**** Above is a good enough explanation, but it's really GameplayAndStorySegregation. Your party has access to Dijinn, so there is not guarantee that Garet hasn't slapped on a bunch of water elementals and Ivan is the party's go to fire starter. Programming all the possibilities probably became a headache.
***** Point of minor nitpicking; no matter what powers you give the Adepts, they remain the same "kind" of Adept.

to:

**** *** Above is a good enough explanation, but it's really GameplayAndStorySegregation. Your party has access to Dijinn, so there is not guarantee that Garet hasn't slapped on a bunch of water elementals and Ivan is the party's go to fire starter. Programming all the possibilities probably became a headache.
***** *** Point of minor nitpicking; no matter what powers you give the Adepts, they remain the same "kind" of Adept.




to:

*** Probably because everybody in Vale is keeping some kind of weird secrets, and it bugs the visitors too much to stick around and try to pry it out of them. Presumably Kraden's been around for years (his house is present during the prologue) and has earned their trust.



** Didn't trust that Isaac would [[AlwaysSaveTheGirl choose Sheba instead of the world]]? Isaac doesn't know what the Shaman Rod is for, it doesn't sound as bad as giving over the star.

to:

** Didn't trust that Isaac would [[AlwaysSaveTheGirl choose Sheba instead of the world]]? Isaac doesn't know what the Shaman Rod is for, it doesn't sound as bad as giving over the star.
star.
** Plus, Saturos was [[MagnificentBastard screwing people over]] anyway.



*** ValuesDissonance also plays a role. If Agatio is anything to by, Proxian warriors are ''very'' imperialistic. The guy wanted to TakeOverTheWorld. It can be assumed that Saturos and Menardi have similar mindsets.

to:

*** ValuesDissonance also plays a role. If Agatio is anything to by, Proxian warriors are ''very'' imperialistic. The guy wanted to TakeOverTheWorld. It can be assumed that Saturos and Menardi have similar mindsets.
mindsets.
*** It's also possible, since the attempted negotiations with Vale happened before the events of the prologue, that Saturos and Menardi were not specifically the ones doing the negotiations-- presumably their diplomat was one of those killed in the failed attack on Sol Sanctum in the prologue.



** There's a line of Mind Read dialogue at the end of GS2 which you can only get if you cheat (since you wouldn't normally have Mind Read accessible at that point). I paraphrase heavily, but in it, one of the Proxians refers to the storms at the northern rift clearing up, allowing them to see the "other side."

to:

** There's a line of [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything Mind Read dialogue at the end of GS2 which you can only get if you cheat cheat]] (since you wouldn't normally have Mind Read accessible at that point). I paraphrase heavily, but in it, one of the Proxians refers to the storms at the northern rift clearing up, allowing them to see the "other side."



*** The Wise One never actually tried to ''kill'' Isaac. It was a SecretTestOfCharacter. [[spoiler:Also, the Wise One [[DoingInTheWizard isn't a god, but rather a living Philosopher's Stone]].]] [[FlatWhat Yeah]].

to:

*** The Wise One never actually tried to ''kill'' Isaac. It was a SecretTestOfCharacter. [[spoiler:Also, the Wise One [[DoingInTheWizard isn't a god, but rather a living Philosopher's Stone]].]] [[FlatWhat Yeah]]. Yeah]].
** Because it's not intended as a MeaningfulName. After all, "Isaac" means "he who laughs", and [[HeroicMime we don't really]] [[SilentProtagonist see Isaac laugh a lot]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** ... and the sequel didn't answer anything. Next!

Changed: 242

Removed: 1133

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Since DD has its own IJBM, transfered IJB Ms dealing \'\'solely\'\' with that game to that page, and reclassed the 3rd group as \"Interregnum\".


[[WMG:Golden Sun: Dark Dawn]]

to:

[[WMG:Golden Sun: [[WMG: The Interregnum between The Lost Age and [[JustBugsMe/{{Ptitlejxjnwzeo}} Dark Dawn]]Dawn]]]]



* Not really a JustBugsMe, but rather something I'm curious about. What exactly would [[spoiler:the Grave Eclipse]] mean for the Anemos, since we know that there are still people up there thanks to Sheba's existence? Do they just put on extra-strength sunblock, or something?
** One assumes they have buildings they can retreat into.
*** [[ItGotWorse Or worse]], ''[[spoiler:[[KillItWithFire they all burned to death from the moon absorbing so much light]]]]''.



* As much as I loved ''Dark Dawn'', one thing really bugged me. Why do we never get any exposition on what is happening ''presently'' until it's ridiculously late into the story? Okay, yes, we all guessed that [[spoiler:Arcanus was Alex]] but the heroes didn't know that. Neither did they know that [[spoiler:the Umbra Clan]] existed until the last twenty minutes. Seems to me like we could've gotten this information earlier.
** Related to that, why the hell didn't Kraden answer any of the party's questions about what was going on? He'd just go "Oh, I'll tell you later", and it turns out that "later" meant "two minutes before fighting the final boss". Screw you Kraden.



* How did Ryu Kou know that the energy inside the Magma Orb would destroy them all? He'd never even seen it before. Even if it's true, he has no reason to know that.

to:

* How did Ryu Kou know that the energy inside the Magma Orb would destroy them all? He'd never even seen it before. Even if it's true, he has no reason to know that.

Added: 165

Changed: 200

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

*** [[ItGotWorse Or worse]], ''[[spoiler:[[KillItWithFire they all burned to death from the moon absorbing so much light]]]]''.







to:

*** FridgeBrilliance: So ''that'''s why they have the Sand Prince stone!

* How did Ryu Kou know that the energy inside the Magma Orb would destroy them all? He'd never even seen it before. Even if it's true, he has no reason to know that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** WordOfGod is that is was on the outskirts of the Lamakan Desert (and when you first visit Ayuthay the surrounding land is indeed arid). Given how the desert had unbearable heat and was considered evil, it was probably little more than a small settlement at the time that was cut off from the rest of the world.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

**Related to that, why the hell didn't Kraden answer any of the party's questions about what was going on? He'd just go "Oh, I'll tell you later", and it turns out that "later" meant "two minutes before fighting the final boss". Screw you Kraden.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** It's simple. She and Saturos were just plain stupid. Alex makes this clear when he says that they were exceptional warriors, but quite simply knew ''nothing'' about how the lighthouses worked, how they operated, how the puzzles and riddles within could be solved. They provably just assumed that three beacons would be enough to save the world, or at least prolong its decay (which turned out to be wrong since Mercury and Jupiter being lit just made it colder). Somewhat justified in that the Fire Clan seems to raise its people to be warriors, as opposed to the Mercury Clan who seem to know a bit more about how their machines work.



*** ''[[AWizardDidIt Alex warping!]]



*** Because Kraden is [[BadassGrandpa Badfreakingass]].



** 4. When he learns he may soon die of old age (At 150 years old!) he invades another city, kidnaps its Messiah (a 14-year-old girl), and uses her to blackmail the population into working as slave labor to build him a tower atop that city's sacred ruins on the off chance that looking from high up the tower will allow him to see where Lemuria is so he'll have a slightly increased chance of returning, so he can steal more immortality potion.

to:

** 4. When he learns he may soon die of old age (At (at 150 years old!) he invades another city, kidnaps its Messiah (a 14-year-old girl), and uses her to blackmail the population into working as slave labor to build him a tower atop that city's sacred ruins on the off chance that looking from high up the tower will allow him to see where Lemuria is so he'll have a slightly increased chance of returning, so he can steal more immortality potion.

Added: 512

Removed: 1561

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* To whomever put the new info for Stella, may I please see your sources indicating that she is a member of a new race, as opposed to being from the ''canon village of [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent Jupiter-Adept werewolves]]?''
** Does [[http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/776/partymembers.png this]] look like a werewolf to you?
** I can't read Japanese, so I'm relying on the word of people who have said that her character description on the site says she is a member of a new race that evolved after the Golden Sun rose. You want to go to the site and take a stab at translating her character description yourself, [[http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/bo5j/character/stella.html be my guest]]. I will gladly concede if you can state otherwise.
*** Also, remember we can only definitively state that which has been given to us. If the site actually ''does'' say she's from Garoh, great. But as far as I know, they haven't said that and so we can't assume it, just as we can't assume that Alex will be the BigBad, or that Karis is Sheba's daughter, or even that -- before it was revealed a few days ago -- the blond man in the blue trenchcoat was Isaac. Even if it seems ''blindingly'' obvious, it would be speculative and jumping the gun, behaviors which are frowned upon in this wiki.
*** But by the same token, assuming she's from an entirely new species would also be a faux pas, which was my point.
*** That's why I ''wasn't'' assuming, I was taking someone's word for it.
** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqSp-xw6F_M Here's the evidence for the new beast people.]]


Added DiffLines:

* Where the hell was Ayuthay when Felix & Co. were exploring the world during ''The Lost Age''? Their main city claims to be old enough to trace their stonecrafting tradition to the {{Precursors}}, is located on a flat area along the coast a stone's throw from [[spoiler: Champa]]... Where the hell was it during the first two games? Shouldn't we have visited it at some point? This wouldn't bug me nearly so much except that it's a ''plot-important location,'' and ''nobody even tries to explain its presence''!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


* As much as I loved ''Dark Dawn'', one thing really bugged me. Why do we never get any exposition on what is happening ''presently'' until it's ridiculously late into the story? Okay, yes, we all guessed that [[spoiler:Arcanus was Alex]] but the heroes didn't know that. Neither did they know that [[spoiler:the Umbra Clan]] existed until the last twenty minutes. Seems to me like we could've gotten this information earlier.

Added: 1718

Changed: 229

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** When the party first meets Babi, they don't actually know he's something of an evil ruler. He puts on a pretty [[AffablyEvil affable]] act. It's not until things develop further that he starts to get suspicious. By the time they realise that he took Sheba as a hostage, they probably catch on to the fact that he's not the nicest guy in the world but choose to keep schtum because his YesMan is travelling with them.



* Isaac is directly labeled almost 17 after the prologue ends in the first game ("You're almost seventeen. You're so much like Kyle was when he was young.") The storm was 3 years ago, Isaac looks nothing like the 13/14 year old he should be at that point.

to:

* Isaac is directly labeled almost 17 after the prologue ends in the first game ("You're almost seventeen. You're so much like Kyle was when he was young.") The storm was 3 years ago, ago. Isaac looks nothing like the 13/14 year old he should be at that point.



*** [[AWizardDidIt Psynergy did it]].



* ...namely, why don't the Lighthouses [[ElementalRockPaperScissors weaken your opposite-element party members]] like Mercury Lighthouse weakened Saturos?

to:

* ...namely, Namely, why don't the Lighthouses [[ElementalRockPaperScissors weaken your opposite-element party members]] like Mercury Lighthouse weakened Saturos?



*** Actually, I think it just has something to do with the Proxian ''race'' as a whole. Extreme cold is shown as being extremely debilitating to them in their town. Given that the Mercury Lighthouse is in a frozen region, and Saturos was ''literally'' standing next to the beacon during the fight, he was probably suffering some kind of extreme frostbite. Garet doesn't have that problem because, being from Vale, he's "human" than the draconic Proxians.



** Because that would be too easy and then you wouldn't be playing Golden Sun now would you?

to:

** Because that would be too easy and then you wouldn't be playing Golden Sun ''Golden Sun'' now would you?



*** They did try to reason with Vale, as noted by several Proxians in The Lost Age. The Valeans didn't believe that Weyard was decaying and refused to allow Prox to break the seal, so the Proxian party turned to raiding Sol Sanctum.

to:

*** They did try to reason with Vale, as noted by several Proxians in The ''The Lost Age.Age''. The Valeans didn't believe that Weyard was decaying and refused to allow Prox to break the seal, so the Proxian party turned to raiding Sol Sanctum.



*** On that note, Saturos and Menardi were the sole survivors of the incident.




to:

*** ValuesDissonance also plays a role. If Agatio is anything to by, Proxian warriors are ''very'' imperialistic. The guy wanted to TakeOverTheWorld. It can be assumed that Saturos and Menardi have similar mindsets.


Added DiffLines:

*** The Wise One never actually tried to ''kill'' Isaac. It was a SecretTestOfCharacter. [[spoiler:Also, the Wise One [[DoingInTheWizard isn't a god, but rather a living Philosopher's Stone]].]] [[FlatWhat Yeah]].


Added DiffLines:



Added DiffLines:



Added DiffLines:



Added DiffLines:

*** The fact that it's never said that the original cast made it pretty much confirms that, especially since the area near where the ground is located has a lot of Isaac & co. [[HeroWorshipper fans]]. Also, bear in mind that the training ground was made for young Adepts. Telling the whole truth at such an early stage in their development would probably ''not'' have encouraged them to use their powers: they'd probably be spooked into never using them out of fear that something similar could happen to them.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

***** About the hostages thing... if you're talking about Felix and family, they likely ''saved them from the river and took them back to Prox where they were healed''; and if you're talking about Jenna and Kraden, well... they did ask Felix if he'd rather they ''left them in the crater of an erupting volcano''. They also state that they'll take Kraden along because he has valuable knowledge, and they probably thought they could use Jenna to later trade for the Mars Star + keep Felix in check.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

*** ChaoticNeutral at worst. Once again in order: whether or not you see them actually trying to civilly negotiate is irrelevant, because it was said that they did. Every time they were present ''on screen,'' when they were speaking to their antagonists that were actively trying to stop them, they were being threatening and violent, which makes sense. We don't know what how they interacted with each other and other people when they were traveling on their own -- and it is true, the worst they did to other people was the girl in the river and Hsu, neither of which are really {{Moral Event Horizon}}s. And everything they did, they did for the sake of Prox -- which doesn't justify a lot of their violent actions such as beating up two teenagers, the girl and Hsu, and kidnapping Sheba, but it ''does'' provide them with a sympathetic motive. No one's trying to say they're not villains, but while they are clearly antagonists, they're not really ''evil'' either. Try WellIntentionedExtremist.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** First of all, it was Venus Lighthouse they were lighting, not Jupiter. As explained in the game, Venus and Mars are very closely related and the power of one can be used in place of the other. However, since you still need to go light Mars at the end of the 2nd game, it is still a valid question.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

**** Yeah, tried to reason with Vale, I'm sure. Somehow I don't see Saturos and Menardi actually trying to civilly negotiate with anyone. Actually, they didn't need to take hostages. Given that they had the Elemental Stars, that alone would have been enough for Isaac and Garet to follow so it was an unnecessary action. You cannot justify anything they did. They did leave a trail of carnage in their wake, and Saturos still nearly almost killed that girl and that guy. Violence was never their first answer? Oh yes it was! Everytime they were present they were threatening harm to others and lied and backstabbed. Saturos outright lied to Isaac several times and used loopholes around his promises. Both of them were ChaoticEvil.

Added: 2213

Changed: 141

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** In order:
*** They did try to reason with Vale, as noted by several Proxians in The Lost Age. The Valeans didn't believe that Weyard was decaying and refused to allow Prox to break the seal, so the Proxian party turned to raiding Sol Sanctum.
*** They attacked Isaac and Garet because the Valeans might have overheard them talking about the raid. Also, they were pissed that the raid failed.
*** They never explicitly threatened Kraden. They pressured him, and he was intimidated, but he wasn't under threat.
*** Their kidnap of Kraden and Jenna was a spur-of-the-moment thing, given that Aleph was erupting. It's explicitly said that they needed to take hostages so that, if Isaac and Garet survive the eruption, they would pursue the squad with the Mars Star. Jenna probably went along more willingly after learning about her parents, and Kraden was driven by his theory (note that they had no animosity towards Alex or the Proxians' quest - only towards Saturos and Menardi).
*** They took Felix along because they needed a Venus Adept to get into the Venus Lighthouse. Likewise, they brought Alex because they needed a Mercury Adept to get into the Mercury Lighthouse.
*** As far as I'm aware, they only made enemies of Isaac's crew and the people of Lalivero. Other [=NPC=]s have occasionally described the gang as scary or powerful, but most [=NPC=]s didn't find them interesting.
*** The "trail of carnage" consists of: A tree-person, who Saturos probably knocked over because he was still spiteful about getting thrashed by Isaac; Hsu, who was an indirect victim, since the landslide was probably meant to impede Isaac's team; the guards of Lalivero, who weren't happy to see Sheba taken hostage
*** They kidnapped Sheba because they needed a Jupiter Adept to enter Jupiter Lighthouse, as well as for use as a hostage to get through Lalivero more easily.
*** They never backstabbed anybody on their team. They did threaten Felix at Venus Lighthouse, but only because Felix was showing signs of rebellion.
*** Saturos was Prox's greatest warrior, so he probably had some reason to feel superior. Aside from conflicts at the lighthouses, violence was never their first resort until they were challenged by Lalivero's soldiers.




to:

* Mt. Aleph is a volcano, right? So why doesn't it have a crater? Alex was most definitely standing on a peak during the credits.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Who's to say the original cast created the Psynergy Training Ground? I saw that thing as a less-than-accurate retelling made by fans who didn't quite understand the original story, with less emphasis on "the dragon was their parents" and more emphasis on "and then they [[RuleOfCool FOUGHT A FRICKIN THREE-HEADED DRAGON]]". They also have the Fire Clan as bad guys, which [[AntiVillain also wasn't really the case]], and I certainly don't remember the Kraken being an all-important plot-defining event.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** I think the parents that ended up being hacked, burned, water, frozen, tornadoed, and earth-quaked by the kids would find it more traumatic. Isaac: (laughing) "Hey, dad, remember that time we beat the living hell out of you and Jenna and Felix's parents?" Isaac's Dad: (twitching) Yes.

Top