History Headscratchers / GoldenSun

8th Jan '16 7:11:33 PM cillianflood
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Know I don't mean the old cast from the first game and their respective spouses. Where are Matthew's grandparents? Isaac's mother is probably dead given the time skip but the other three were right there alongside everyone else when Alchemy restored so they should have the immortality or significantly slowed aging too yet the game never refers to them once. Are they hanging out in Vale just unseen or did they decide to go galavanting across the world and have some adventures of their own since old age wasn't kicking in?

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Know No I don't mean the old cast from the first game and their respective spouses. Where are Matthew's grandparents? Isaac's mother is probably dead given the time skip but the other three were right there alongside everyone else when Alchemy restored so they should have the immortality or significantly slowed aging too yet the game never refers to them once. Are they hanging out in Vale just unseen or did they decide to go galavanting across the world and have some adventures of their own since old age wasn't kicking in?
19th Nov '15 12:19:47 PM cillianflood
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Added DiffLines:


[[folder:Where are there parents?]]
Know I don't mean the old cast from the first game and their respective spouses. Where are Matthew's grandparents? Isaac's mother is probably dead given the time skip but the other three were right there alongside everyone else when Alchemy restored so they should have the immortality or significantly slowed aging too yet the game never refers to them once. Are they hanging out in Vale just unseen or did they decide to go galavanting across the world and have some adventures of their own since old age wasn't kicking in?
[[/folder]]
14th Aug '15 6:12:02 PM Anorgil
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to:

** "The single most evil person in all of Weyard" would be more evil than Alex. If nothing else, wanting to rule the world forever and have absolute control over the Golden Sun is more megalomaniacal than wanting to rule Tolbi forever.
14th Aug '15 6:03:07 PM Anorgil
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to:

** Maybe a powerful Mercury adept such as Alex couldn't handle such a powerful Mars-infused artifact as the Mars Star, since Mercury and Mars are opposed to each other.
22nd Jul '15 9:40:27 AM VPhantom
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* Why do the playable characters have a different pattern of elemental relationships than NPCs? I will mention four examples with Resistance values in brackets. (i) Djinn Dew who uses Mercury attacks (193 Mercury, 100/100 Venus/Jupiter, 25 Mars) (ii) Saturos who uses Mars attacks (175 Mars, 127 Venus, 100 Jupiter, 72 Mercury) (iii) Mercury adept (e.g. Mia) base stats (114 Mercury, 88 Venus, 87 Mars, 86 Jupiter) (iv) Fusion Dragon (consisting of 2x Venus and 1x Mars adept) (195 Venus, 175 Mars, 130 Mercury, 98 Jupiter). This shows (i) and (iv) use the same pattern but the rest are different. I would expect (ii) to be the logical pattern, with Resistance values from highest to lowest as: innate > symbiotic > neutral > weak.

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* Why do the playable characters have a different pattern of elemental relationships than NPCs? [=NPCs=]? I will mention four examples with Resistance values in brackets. (i) Djinn Dew who uses Mercury attacks (193 Mercury, 100/100 Venus/Jupiter, 25 Mars) (ii) Saturos who uses Mars attacks (175 Mars, 127 Venus, 100 Jupiter, 72 Mercury) (iii) Mercury adept (e.g. Mia) base stats (114 Mercury, 88 Venus, 87 Mars, 86 Jupiter) (iv) Fusion Dragon (consisting of 2x Venus and 1x Mars adept) (195 Venus, 175 Mars, 130 Mercury, 98 Jupiter). This shows (i) and (iv) use the same pattern but the rest are different. I would expect (ii) to be the logical pattern, with Resistance values from highest to lowest as: innate > symbiotic > neutral > weak.
18th Jul '15 3:49:38 PM Discar
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[[WMG: VideoGame/GoldenSun]]

And don't forget to put ''Dark Dawn'' Headscratchers on the [[Headscratchers/GoldenSunDarkDawn Dark Dawn Headscratchers page!]]

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[[WMG: VideoGame/GoldenSun]]

New entries on the bottom. And don't forget to put ''Dark Dawn'' Headscratchers on the [[Headscratchers/GoldenSunDarkDawn Dark Dawn Headscratchers page!]]
page!]]

[[foldercontrol]]

[[WMG:VideoGame/GoldenSun]]

[[folder:Alex and the Mars Star]]



* Why don't they give some Mercury Lighthouse water to Dora, Isaac's mother, when she gets sick? Okay, sure, she's pretending that Isaac can't visit her...but can't he give the pitcher to a neighbor or something and ask them to give it to her without mentioning him?

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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mercury Water]]

* Why don't they give some Mercury Lighthouse water to Dora, Isaac's mother, when she gets sick? Okay, sure, she's pretending that Isaac can't visit her...but can't he give the pitcher to a neighbor or something and ask them to give it to her without mentioning him? him?




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Gaia Falls]]



*** If you think about it, odds are the water loops around to the underside of the world, and becomes underground springs which eventually flow back up....hey, it makes sense.

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*** ** If you think about it, odds are the water loops around to the underside of the world, and becomes underground springs which eventually flow back up....hey, it makes sense.



*** Which is why one is being developed.
*** ... and the sequel didn't answer anything. Next!
**** In-game lore states that Aqua Rock produces infinite amounts of water.

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*** ** Which is why one is being developed.
*** ...** ... and the sequel didn't answer anything. Next!
**** ** In-game lore states that Aqua Rock produces infinite amounts of water.water.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Jupiter and Mars lighthouses]]



*** It's simple. She and Saturos were just plain stupid. Alex makes this clear when he says that they were exceptional warriors, but quite simply knew ''nothing'' about how the lighthouses worked, how they operated, how the puzzles and riddles within could be solved. They probably just assumed that three beacons would be enough to save the world, or at least prolong its decay (which turned out to be wrong since Mercury and Jupiter being lit just made it colder). Somewhat justified in that the Fire Clan seems to raise its people to be warriors, as opposed to the Mercury Clan who seem to know a bit more about how their machines work.

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*** ** It's simple. She and Saturos were just plain stupid. Alex makes this clear when he says that they were exceptional warriors, but quite simply knew ''nothing'' about how the lighthouses worked, how they operated, how the puzzles and riddles within could be solved. They probably just assumed that three beacons would be enough to save the world, or at least prolong its decay (which turned out to be wrong since Mercury and Jupiter being lit just made it colder). Somewhat justified in that the Fire Clan seems to raise its people to be warriors, as opposed to the Mercury Clan who seem to know a bit more about how their machines work. work.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Getting into lighthouses]]



*** [[DeusExMachina Alex can Warp. He warps everyone everywhere.]] That's about as plausible of a explanation as I can think of.

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*** ** [[DeusExMachina Alex can Warp. He warps everyone everywhere.]] That's about as plausible of a explanation as I can think of.



*** ''[[AWizardDidIt Alex warping!]]

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*** ** ''[[AWizardDidIt Alex warping!]] warping!]]



-->'''Great Healer''': We cannot hope for salvation. We must save ourselves...
-->'''Dora''': Then what can we do?
-->'''Great Healer''' (indicating Isaac and Garet): Acquiring the Elemental Stars is their fate alone.
-->'''Dora''': Are you suggesting we place the fate of the world... in the hands of Isaac and Garet?
-->'''Great Healer''' nods
-->'''Mayor''': Garet is only a child. You can't expect him to bear such a burden...
-->'''Great Healer''': The Wise One has spoken. Each of you shares responsibility for this. Now, each of you must make your own decision!
-->'''Garet''': I don't know what to do. Isaac, you decide.
-->'''Great Healer''': Isaac, will you accept responsibility for the fate of the land?
-->(yes/no choice)

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-->'''Great --->'''Great Healer''': We cannot hope for salvation. We must save ourselves...
-->'''Dora''':
ourselves...\\
'''Dora''':
Then what can we do?
-->'''Great
do?\\
'''Great
Healer''' (indicating Isaac and Garet): Acquiring the Elemental Stars is their fate alone.
-->'''Dora''':
alone.\\
'''Dora''':
Are you suggesting we place the fate of the world... in the hands of Isaac and Garet?
-->'''Great
Garet?\\
'''Great
Healer''' nods
-->'''Mayor''':
nods\\
'''Mayor''':
Garet is only a child. You can't expect him to bear such a burden...
-->'''Great
burden...\\
'''Great
Healer''': The Wise One has spoken. Each of you shares responsibility for this. Now, each of you must make your own decision!
-->'''Garet''':
decision!\\
'''Garet''':
I don't know what to do. Isaac, you decide.
-->'''Great
decide.\\
'''Great
Healer''': Isaac, will you accept responsibility for the fate of the land?
-->(yes/no
land?\\
(yes/no
choice)



*** Erm, well, that just means that the particular scene about Isaac making a promise to Dora wasn't shown on screen, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Following the above "relevant conversation" is a time skip to the next day which skips over a potentially long period of nighttime, which would be Isaac's last night spent with his mother. That would be an ideal block of time for Isaac to make that promise to her...
*** Yeah, I just figured the promise happened offscreen, too.
*** That's hardly a valid excuse considering how long the game's text is. If he made that promise it should have been shown. It could have been done in less than 10 words. And would give him some actual on screen character.

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*** ** Erm, well, that just means that the particular scene about Isaac making a promise to Dora wasn't shown on screen, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Following the above "relevant conversation" is a time skip to the next day which skips over a potentially long period of nighttime, which would be Isaac's last night spent with his mother. That would be an ideal block of time for Isaac to make that promise to her...
*** ** Yeah, I just figured the promise happened offscreen, too.
*** ** That's hardly a valid excuse considering how long the game's text is. If he made that promise it should have been shown. It could have been done in less than 10 words. And would give him some actual on screen character.character.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Preventing volcano from explosion]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Karagol ship and Kalay]]



*** Also, a large part of the crew got injured, and I doubt it's gonna be easy to find new willing rowers with the rumors of monsters proven true. (Which means the thousand tourists who came to see the Colosso probably got stranded in Tolbi for a while.)

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*** ** Also, a large part of the crew got injured, and I doubt it's gonna be easy to find new willing rowers with the rumors of monsters proven true. (Which means the thousand tourists who came to see the Colosso probably got stranded in Tolbi for a while.))

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Karagol and rowers]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Teleporting]]



*** ... holy crap this just [[FridgeBrilliance finally made me come to terms with the TLA ending]].

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*** ... ** ... holy crap this just [[FridgeBrilliance finally made me come to terms with the TLA ending]].ending]].

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Sheba's personality]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Inn prices]]




*** Because [[MemeticBadass Kraden]] is [[BadassGrandpa Badfreakingass]].
* Why is Babi portrayed as anything other than a irredeemable villain? Let's look at everything he's done:
** 1. Steals a ship, a priceless artifact, and an immortality potion from a Utopian society.
** 2. Abandons his only friend there, so that he can never see his wife and young son again.
** 3. Rules Tolbi with an iron fist for well over a century
** 4. When he learns he may soon die of old age (at 150 years old!) he invades another city, kidnaps its Messiah (a 14-year-old girl), and uses her to blackmail the population into working as slave labor to build him a tower atop that city's sacred ruins on the off chance that looking from high up the tower will allow him to see where Lemuria is so he'll have a slightly increased chance of returning, so he can steal more immortality potion.
*** I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's the single most evil person in all of Weyard.
*** AffablyEvil? Most of this comes to light well after you first meet and befriend him, so it's not as though, upon saving his life, he'll go ahead and let you know he's a Complete Monster.
*** That's not my point, my point is, even knowing this Isaac's party is still willing to go on the mission he gave them, as if the fact that the person who gave them it was a twisted old tyrant didn't come into the equation at all.
*** Well, if he really was such a CM, maybe they realized it and were GenreSavvy enough to realize that declining would probably get them the same treatment as Sheba, if not worse. And he did give them a boat when they agreed. Also, Isaac's party never actually seemed to make it to Lemuria, and given that you don't see them until Jupiter Lighthouse in The Lost Age, it's entirely possible somewhere along the way they decided that it wasn't worth the trouble for an evil tyrant, especially once he was dead. Either that or they lost the boat and don't want to tell him. Mind you, this is all venturing into EpilepticTrees territory, [[FlatCharacter but it's the best I've got when the characters, much as I love them, are pretty flat.]]
*** As for your last sentence, I'm pretty sure that Isaac and co. felt the same way that Felix and co. did: once Babi was dead, there was no more need to do his dirty work. That said, it raises any number of obvious questions about what Isaac was actually ''doing'' between the end of GS1 and Jupiter Lighthouse. Anyone else have a vision of the four of them just taking a nice, luxury cruise (at Babi's expense!) around the Great Eastern Sea until Felix finally opens up the passage to the west, then sneaking into Jupiter Lighthouse while Felix wastes time with Trial Road?
*** Completely unrelated, but I remember having a fun time writing fanfic in which Garet was highly suspicious of Babi and kept calling him an evil twit.
*** Another theory, ValuesDissonance. It could be they believe that one is bound by their word, or that since Babi is of a higher social standing than themselves, they have to obey him, or maybe they don't see him as evil. Weyard's culture is never discussed in detail.
*** Babi didn't actually do anything evil to either group in the games. All we really know about him is that he didn't want to die painfully and kept a large city running fairly. He may well have been a very benevolent (or at least not malign) ruler who simply wanted to know that his kingdom could run smoothly. Ignoring all that, he was the only hope any of the group had for navigating the Venus Lighthouse thanks to its ruined state.
*** Actually, after Piers joins your party and you return to Madra before meeting Karst and getting Cyclone, the townspeople state that they met Isaac and company. We also find out they did find Lemuria, but couldn't defeat Poseidon. They went east to find Felix's group and Piers but you came back before you could meet up.
*** Babi always struck me as ruthlessly efficient and amoral rather than, you know, Caligula. His people and his servants all seem to like him just fine, especially when compared to Dodonpa up in Lunpa- his people are sick of him, and will say so. Tolbi's pretty much a kinder, gentler Rome- there's a distinct lack of bloodshed at Colosso, and cities are conquered, not exterminated, since while the workers at Babi's lighthouse may hate the guy, they're still getting paid.
*** When the party first meets Babi, they don't actually know he's something of an evil ruler. He puts on a pretty [[AffablyEvil affable]] act. It's not until things develop further that he starts to get suspicious. By the time they realise that he took Sheba as a hostage, they probably catch on to the fact that he's not the nicest guy in the world but choose to keep schtum because his YesMan is traveling with them.

to:

*** ** Because [[MemeticBadass Kraden]] is [[BadassGrandpa Badfreakingass]].
Badfreakingass]].

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Babi the villain]]

* Why is Babi portrayed as anything other than a irredeemable villain? Let's look at everything he's done:
**
done: 1. Steals a ship, a priceless artifact, and an immortality potion from a Utopian society.
**
society. 2. Abandons his only friend there, so that he can never see his wife and young son again.
**
again. 3. Rules Tolbi with an iron fist for well over a century
**
century. 4. When he learns he may soon die of old age (at 150 years old!) he invades another city, kidnaps its Messiah (a 14-year-old girl), and uses her to blackmail the population into working as slave labor to build him a tower atop that city's sacred ruins on the off chance that looking from high up the tower will allow him to see where Lemuria is so he'll have a slightly increased chance of returning, so he can steal more immortality potion. \n*** I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's the single most evil person in all of Weyard.
*** ** AffablyEvil? Most of this comes to light well after you first meet and befriend him, so it's not as though, upon saving his life, he'll go ahead and let you know he's a Complete Monster.
*** ** That's not my point, my point is, even knowing this Isaac's party is still willing to go on the mission he gave them, as if the fact that the person who gave them it was a twisted old tyrant didn't come into the equation at all.
***
all.
**
Well, if he really was such a CM, maybe they realized it and were GenreSavvy enough to realize that declining would probably get them the same treatment as Sheba, if not worse. And he did give them a boat when they agreed. Also, Isaac's party never actually seemed to make it to Lemuria, and given that you don't see them until Jupiter Lighthouse in The Lost Age, it's entirely possible somewhere along the way they decided that it wasn't worth the trouble for an evil tyrant, especially once he was dead. Either that or they lost the boat and don't want to tell him. Mind you, this is all venturing into EpilepticTrees territory, [[FlatCharacter but it's the best I've got when the characters, much as I love them, are pretty flat.]]
*** ** As for your last sentence, I'm pretty sure that Isaac and co. felt the same way that Felix and co. did: once Babi was dead, there was no more need to do his dirty work. That said, it raises any number of obvious questions about what Isaac was actually ''doing'' between the end of GS1 and Jupiter Lighthouse. Anyone else have a vision of the four of them just taking a nice, luxury cruise (at Babi's expense!) around the Great Eastern Sea until Felix finally opens up the passage to the west, then sneaking into Jupiter Lighthouse while Felix wastes time with Trial Road?
*** ** Completely unrelated, but I remember having a fun time writing fanfic in which Garet was highly suspicious of Babi and kept calling him an evil twit.
*** ** Another theory, ValuesDissonance. It could be they believe that one is bound by their word, or that since Babi is of a higher social standing than themselves, they have to obey him, or maybe they don't see him as evil. Weyard's culture is never discussed in detail.
***
detail.
**
Babi didn't actually do anything evil to either group in the games. All we really know about him is that he didn't want to die painfully and kept a large city running fairly. He may well have been a very benevolent (or at least not malign) ruler who simply wanted to know that his kingdom could run smoothly. Ignoring all that, he was the only hope any of the group had for navigating the Venus Lighthouse thanks to its ruined state.
*** ** Actually, after Piers joins your party and you return to Madra before meeting Karst and getting Cyclone, the townspeople state that they met Isaac and company. We also find out they did find Lemuria, but couldn't defeat Poseidon. They went east to find Felix's group and Piers but you came back before you could meet up.
***
up.
**
Babi always struck me as ruthlessly efficient and amoral rather than, you know, Caligula. His people and his servants all seem to like him just fine, especially when compared to Dodonpa up in Lunpa- his people are sick of him, and will say so. Tolbi's pretty much a kinder, gentler Rome- there's a distinct lack of bloodshed at Colosso, and cities are conquered, not exterminated, since while the workers at Babi's lighthouse may hate the guy, they're still getting paid.
*** ** When the party first meets Babi, they don't actually know he's something of an evil ruler. He puts on a pretty [[AffablyEvil affable]] act. It's not until things develop further that he starts to get suspicious. By the time they realise that he took Sheba as a hostage, they probably catch on to the fact that he's not the nicest guy in the world but choose to keep schtum because his YesMan is traveling with them.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Apoji water adepts]]



*** An NPC mentions that the witch doctor's powers come from Magma Rock.

to:

*** ** An NPC mentions that the witch doctor's powers come from Magma Rock.Rock.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Isaac's age]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mia's apprentice]]



*** No, not Alex, the kid in the Sanctum, who appears in the place of the [[InexplicablyIdenticalIndividuals guy in every town]] who will cure down/curse/poison ect.
*** GameplayAndStorySegregation. But if you want justification, well, it's probably easier to do the proper healing techniques in a calm building then it is in the middle of a field surrounded by monsters, or worse, actual combat. Mia learning Revive is just learning how to do it ''fast.''
*** Or the kid just has the right material... like a bunch of Waters of Life, and that's what he makes you pay for.

to:

*** ** No, not Alex, the kid in the Sanctum, who appears in the place of the [[InexplicablyIdenticalIndividuals guy in every town]] who will cure down/curse/poison ect.
*** ** GameplayAndStorySegregation. But if you want justification, well, it's probably easier to do the proper healing techniques in a calm building then it is in the middle of a field surrounded by monsters, or worse, actual combat. Mia learning Revive is just learning how to do it ''fast.''
*** ** Or the kid just has the right material... like a bunch of Waters of Life, and that's what he makes you pay for.



*** Except he and that girl with him explicitly state that they're members of the Mercury Clan.
*** So... he has some Venus Djinn and thus a Revive-granting class?
*** Using expensive material you are charged for sounds good
*** It could also be that adepts learn different abilities at different rates and times. While the kid could cast revive, it could just be his personal specialty and is abysmal at combat abilities, has low PP reserves and other stats (making it hard for him to cast spells for a long time), etc. Some abilities seem to come naturally to some, while others have to go to temples or the elemental rocks to learn them. Sometimes they need to be holding an item to perform a technique while another just does it on their own. There are a few adepts who actually abilities that seem very advanced, but are their specialty. One person who comes to mind is the artificial adept that has premonitions, the other being the fortune teller who seems to have no other abilities besides seeing the future.

to:

*** ** Except he and that girl with him explicitly state that they're members of the Mercury Clan.
*** ** So... he has some Venus Djinn and thus a Revive-granting class?
*** ** Using expensive material you are charged for sounds good
*** ** It could also be that adepts learn different abilities at different rates and times. While the kid could cast revive, it could just be his personal specialty and is abysmal at combat abilities, has low PP reserves and other stats (making it hard for him to cast spells for a long time), etc. Some abilities seem to come naturally to some, while others have to go to temples or the elemental rocks to learn them. Sometimes they need to be holding an item to perform a technique while another just does it on their own. There are a few adepts who actually abilities that seem very advanced, but are their specialty. One person who comes to mind is the artificial adept that has premonitions, the other being the fortune teller who seems to have no other abilities besides seeing the future.future.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Earth and Fire symbiotic relationship]]



* ... Namely, why don't the Lighthouses [[ElementalRockPaperScissors weaken your opposite-element party members]] like Mercury Lighthouse weakened Saturos?

to:

* ... Namely, why
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Lighthouses weakening]]

* Why
don't the Lighthouses [[ElementalRockPaperScissors weaken your opposite-element party members]] like Mercury Lighthouse weakened Saturos?



*** Clans seem to be mainly a cultural thing though. The only thing that's ever given any significance within the games is the element a person is aligned to, but I have figured out how your theory can still work in the context of the games. Look at all the other adept settlements, except for Lemuria, they're only exposed to one element by proximity to a lighthouse or an elemental rock. Adepts in Vale however, are exposed to all four elements by proximity to Mt. Aleph and the elemental stars. Isaac, Felix, Jenna, and Garet would have developed a stronger resistance to their opposing elements by constant exposure that members of the individual clans wouldn't have. Similar to how symptoms of airborn allergies can be relieved by prolonged exposure to trace amount of the allergens in question. So Garet would have been affected by the beacon if the party had spent more time in the lighthouse. It was just taking longer because Garet has been exposed to some noticeable amount of water elemental energy his whole life, while for Saturos and Menardi, it was their first time being exposed to anything more than the most trace amounts of their opposing element.
*** Above is a good enough explanation, but it's really GameplayAndStorySegregation. Your party has access to Dijinn, so there is no guarantee that Garet hasn't slapped on a bunch of water elementals and Ivan is the party's go to fire starter. Programming all the possibilities probably became a headache.
*** Point of minor nitpicking; no matter what powers you give the Adepts, they remain the same "kind" of Adept.
*** That still wouldn't explain why Mia and Piers aren't weakened by the Mars lighthouse.
**** They aren't weakened by the Mars lighthouse, since the beacon has not been lit at any time they fought.
** Maybe the Djinn counteract it? Or maybe because the dev team didn't want to reduce Garet's effectiveness against Saturos any further by weakening him, and it'd be annoying to have a severely weakened party member running around the Mercury Lighthouse, and fighting the FinalBoss. I'm also surprised they don't try to pull this in Lost Age, because the Jupiter Lighthouse is lit behind Agatio and Karst, and I imagine that Jupiter and Mercury have a symbolic relationship like Venus and Mars do.
*** Actually, I think it just has something to do with the Proxian ''race'' as a whole. Extreme cold is shown as being extremely debilitating to them in their town. Given that the Mercury Lighthouse is in a frozen region, and Saturos was ''literally'' standing next to the beacon during the fight, he was probably suffering some kind of extreme frostbite. Garet doesn't have that problem because, being from Vale, he's more "human" than the draconic Proxians.
**** Probably wrong: Garet is sensitive to the lighting of Venus Lighthouse - he doesn't get PP at each turn while in the Lighthouse like Isaac does, but his PP is refilled for the Fusion Dragon battle just like Isaac's.

to:

*** ** Clans seem to be mainly a cultural thing though. The only thing that's ever given any significance within the games is the element a person is aligned to, but I have figured out how your theory can still work in the context of the games. Look at all the other adept settlements, except for Lemuria, they're only exposed to one element by proximity to a lighthouse or an elemental rock. Adepts in Vale however, are exposed to all four elements by proximity to Mt. Aleph and the elemental stars. Isaac, Felix, Jenna, and Garet would have developed a stronger resistance to their opposing elements by constant exposure that members of the individual clans wouldn't have. Similar to how symptoms of airborn allergies can be relieved by prolonged exposure to trace amount of the allergens in question. So Garet would have been affected by the beacon if the party had spent more time in the lighthouse. It was just taking longer because Garet has been exposed to some noticeable amount of water elemental energy his whole life, while for Saturos and Menardi, it was their first time being exposed to anything more than the most trace amounts of their opposing element.
*** ** Above is a good enough explanation, but it's really GameplayAndStorySegregation. Your party has access to Dijinn, so there is no guarantee that Garet hasn't slapped on a bunch of water elementals and Ivan is the party's go to fire starter. Programming all the possibilities probably became a headache.
*** ** Point of minor nitpicking; no matter what powers you give the Adepts, they remain the same "kind" of Adept.
*** ** That still wouldn't explain why Mia and Piers aren't weakened by the Mars lighthouse.
**** ** They aren't weakened by the Mars lighthouse, since the beacon has not been lit at any time they fought.
** Maybe the Djinn counteract it? Or maybe because the dev team didn't want to reduce Garet's effectiveness against Saturos any further by weakening him, and it'd be annoying to have a severely weakened party member running around the Mercury Lighthouse, and fighting the FinalBoss. I'm also surprised they don't try to pull this in Lost Age, because the Jupiter Lighthouse is lit behind Agatio and Karst, and I imagine that Jupiter and Mercury have a symbolic relationship like Venus and Mars do.
***
do.
**
Actually, I think it just has something to do with the Proxian ''race'' as a whole. Extreme cold is shown as being extremely debilitating to them in their town. Given that the Mercury Lighthouse is in a frozen region, and Saturos was ''literally'' standing next to the beacon during the fight, he was probably suffering some kind of extreme frostbite. Garet doesn't have that problem because, being from Vale, he's more "human" than the draconic Proxians.
****
Proxians.
**
Probably wrong: Garet is sensitive to the lighting of Venus Lighthouse - he doesn't get PP at each turn while in the Lighthouse like Isaac does, but his PP is refilled for the Fusion Dragon battle just like Isaac's.Isaac's.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Teleporting to the Mars Star]]



*** Confirmed! Try using retreat in the sol/luna rooms before and after you grab the stars.

to:

*** ** Confirmed! Try using retreat in the sol/luna rooms before and after you grab the stars. stars.



* Vale is clearly known to the general population (there are roads leading there, and someone who made his living as a trader should know something of geography), so why does Hammet decide to go to a WretchedHive over the seemingly normal little town?

to:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Hammet's choice]]

* Vale is clearly known to the general population (there are roads leading there, and someone who made his living as a trader should know something of geography), so why does Hammet decide to go to a WretchedHive over the seemingly normal little town? town?



*** There have to be some visitors, at least under special circumstances, as Masked!Felix was apparently an out-of-towner, but the point still stands; Vale isn't exactly a popular vacation resort.
*** Visitors are mentioned, and it's mentioned that the Vale residents have to keep Psynergy a secret from them. Psynergy is such a huge part of their lifestyle that one would think it hard to hide from visitors, especially with that huge honking crystal in the middle of town, so maybe everyone's creeped out by the apparent TownWithADarkSecret.

to:

*** ** There have to be some visitors, at least under special circumstances, as Masked!Felix was apparently an out-of-towner, but the point still stands; Vale isn't exactly a popular vacation resort.
*** ** Visitors are mentioned, and it's mentioned that the Vale residents have to keep Psynergy a secret from them. Psynergy is such a huge part of their lifestyle that one would think it hard to hide from visitors, especially with that huge honking crystal in the middle of town, so maybe everyone's creeped out by the apparent TownWithADarkSecret.



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Shaman's Rod for Sheba]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Symbiotic resistance]]



** Maybe it's easier for the psynergy of the complementery elememt to flow into them, for better or worse.

to:

** Maybe it's easier for the psynergy of the complementery elememt complementary element to flow into them, for better or worse.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Saturos, Menardi, Lemurian ship]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Saturos and Menardi's plan]]



*** They did try to reason with Vale, as noted by several Proxians in ''The Lost Age''. The Valeans didn't believe that Weyard was decaying and refused to allow Prox to break the seal, so the Proxian party turned to raiding Sol Sanctum.
*** They attacked Isaac and Garet because the Valeans might have overheard them talking about the raid. Also, they were pissed that the raid failed.
*** On that note, Saturos and Menardi were the sole survivors of the incident.
*** They never explicitly threatened Kraden. They pressured him, and he was intimidated, but he wasn't under threat.
*** Their kidnap of Kraden and Jenna was a spur-of-the-moment thing, given that Aleph was erupting. It's explicitly said that they needed to take hostages so that, if Isaac and Garet survive the eruption, they would pursue the squad with the Mars Star. Jenna probably went along more willingly after learning about her parents, and Kraden was driven by his theory (note that they had no animosity towards Alex or the Proxians' quest - only towards Saturos and Menardi).
*** They took Felix along because they needed a Venus Adept to get into the Venus Lighthouse. Likewise, they brought Alex because they needed a Mercury Adept to get into the Mercury Lighthouse.
*** As far as I'm aware, they only made enemies of Isaac's crew and the people of Lalivero. Other [=NPC=]s have occasionally described the gang as scary or powerful, but most [=NPC=]s didn't find them interesting.
*** The "trail of carnage" consists of: A tree-person, who Saturos probably knocked over because he was still spiteful about getting thrashed by Isaac; Hsu, who was an indirect victim, since the landslide was probably meant to impede Isaac's team; the guards of Lalivero, who weren't happy to see Sheba taken hostage
*** They kidnapped Sheba because they needed a Jupiter Adept to enter Jupiter Lighthouse, as well as for use as a hostage to get through Lalivero more easily.
*** They never backstabbed anybody on their team. They did threaten Felix at Venus Lighthouse, but only because Felix was showing signs of rebellion.
*** Saturos was Prox's greatest warrior, so he probably had some reason to feel superior. Aside from conflicts at the lighthouses, violence was never their first resort until they were challenged by Lalivero's soldiers.
**** Yeah, tried to reason with Vale, I'm sure. Somehow I don't see Saturos and Menardi actually trying to civilly negotiate with anyone. Actually, they didn't need to take hostages. Given that they had the Elemental Stars, that alone would have been enough for Isaac and Garet to follow so it was an unnecessary action. You cannot justify anything they did. They did leave a trail of carnage in their wake, and Saturos still nearly almost killed that girl and that guy. Violence was never their first answer? Oh yes it was! Everytime they were present they were threatening harm to others and lied and backstabbed. Saturos outright lied to Isaac several times and used loopholes around his promises. Both of them were ChaoticEvil.
***** As mentioned, they were the only survivors of the original team that attempted to breach Sol Sanctum. It's possible that one or more of the team were better negotiators and diplomats than S & M; at least before they bought the farm because they weren't great fighters. Perhaps they weren't even the leaders of that group to begin with.
***** About the hostages thing... if you're talking about Felix and family, they likely ''saved them from the river and took them back to Prox where they were healed''; and if you're talking about Jenna and Kraden, well... they did ask Felix if he'd rather they ''left them in the crater of an erupting volcano''. They also state that they'll take Kraden along because he has valuable knowledge, and they probably thought they could use Jenna to later trade for the Mars Star + keep Felix in check.
*** ChaoticNeutral at worst. Once again in order: whether or not you see them actually trying to civilly negotiate is irrelevant, because it was said that they did. Every time they were present ''on screen,'' when they were speaking to their antagonists that were actively trying to stop them, they were being threatening and violent, which makes sense. We don't know what how they interacted with each other and other people when they were traveling on their own -- and it is true, the worst they did to other people was the girl in the river and Hsu, neither of which are really {{Moral Event Horizon}}s. And everything they did, they did for the sake of Prox -- which doesn't justify a lot of their violent actions such as beating up two teenagers, the girl and Hsu, and kidnapping Sheba, but it ''does'' provide them with a sympathetic motive. No one's trying to say they're not villains, but while they are clearly antagonists, they're not really ''evil'' either. Try WellIntentionedExtremist.
*** ValuesDissonance also plays a role. If Agatio is anything to by, Proxian warriors are ''very'' imperialistic. The guy wanted to TakeOverTheWorld. It can be assumed that Saturos and Menardi have similar mindsets.
*** It's also possible, since the attempted negotiations with Vale happened before the events of the prologue, that Saturos and Menardi were not specifically the ones doing the negotiations-- their diplomat was one of those killed in the failed attack on Sol Sanctum in the prologue, after negotiations failed.

to:

*** ** They did try to reason with Vale, as noted by several Proxians in ''The Lost Age''. The Valeans didn't believe that Weyard was decaying and refused to allow Prox to break the seal, so the Proxian party turned to raiding Sol Sanctum.
*** ** They attacked Isaac and Garet because the Valeans might have overheard them talking about the raid. Also, they were pissed that the raid failed.
*** ** On that note, Saturos and Menardi were the sole survivors of the incident.
***
incident.
**
They never explicitly threatened Kraden. They pressured him, and he was intimidated, but he wasn't under threat.
*** ** Their kidnap of Kraden and Jenna was a spur-of-the-moment thing, given that Aleph was erupting. It's explicitly said that they needed to take hostages so that, if Isaac and Garet survive the eruption, they would pursue the squad with the Mars Star. Jenna probably went along more willingly after learning about her parents, and Kraden was driven by his theory (note that they had no animosity towards Alex or the Proxians' quest - only towards Saturos and Menardi).
*** ** They took Felix along because they needed a Venus Adept to get into the Venus Lighthouse. Likewise, they brought Alex because they needed a Mercury Adept to get into the Mercury Lighthouse.
*** ** As far as I'm aware, they only made enemies of Isaac's crew and the people of Lalivero. Other [=NPC=]s have occasionally described the gang as scary or powerful, but most [=NPC=]s didn't find them interesting.
*** ** The "trail of carnage" consists of: A tree-person, who Saturos probably knocked over because he was still spiteful about getting thrashed by Isaac; Hsu, who was an indirect victim, since the landslide was probably meant to impede Isaac's team; the guards of Lalivero, who weren't happy to see Sheba taken hostage
*** ** They kidnapped Sheba because they needed a Jupiter Adept to enter Jupiter Lighthouse, as well as for use as a hostage to get through Lalivero more easily.
*** ** They never backstabbed anybody on their team. They did threaten Felix at Venus Lighthouse, but only because Felix was showing signs of rebellion.
*** ** Saturos was Prox's greatest warrior, so he probably had some reason to feel superior. Aside from conflicts at the lighthouses, violence was never their first resort until they were challenged by Lalivero's soldiers.
**** ** Yeah, tried to reason with Vale, I'm sure. Somehow I don't see Saturos and Menardi actually trying to civilly negotiate with anyone. Actually, they didn't need to take hostages. Given that they had the Elemental Stars, that alone would have been enough for Isaac and Garet to follow so it was an unnecessary action. You cannot justify anything they did. They did leave a trail of carnage in their wake, and Saturos still nearly almost killed that girl and that guy. Violence was never their first answer? Oh yes it was! Everytime they were present they were threatening harm to others and lied and backstabbed. Saturos outright lied to Isaac several times and used loopholes around his promises. Both of them were ChaoticEvil.
***** ** As mentioned, they were the only survivors of the original team that attempted to breach Sol Sanctum. It's possible that one or more of the team were better negotiators and diplomats than S & M; at least before they bought the farm because they weren't great fighters. Perhaps they weren't even the leaders of that group to begin with.
***** ** About the hostages thing... if you're talking about Felix and family, they likely ''saved them from the river and took them back to Prox where they were healed''; and if you're talking about Jenna and Kraden, well... they did ask Felix if he'd rather they ''left them in the crater of an erupting volcano''. They also state that they'll take Kraden along because he has valuable knowledge, and they probably thought they could use Jenna to later trade for the Mars Star + keep Felix in check.
*** ** ChaoticNeutral at worst. Once again in order: whether or not you see them actually trying to civilly negotiate is irrelevant, because it was said that they did. Every time they were present ''on screen,'' when they were speaking to their antagonists that were actively trying to stop them, they were being threatening and violent, which makes sense. We don't know what how they interacted with each other and other people when they were traveling on their own -- and it is true, the worst they did to other people was the girl in the river and Hsu, neither of which are really {{Moral Event Horizon}}s. And everything they did, they did for the sake of Prox -- which doesn't justify a lot of their violent actions such as beating up two teenagers, the girl and Hsu, and kidnapping Sheba, but it ''does'' provide them with a sympathetic motive. No one's trying to say they're not villains, but while they are clearly antagonists, they're not really ''evil'' either. Try WellIntentionedExtremist.
*** ** ValuesDissonance also plays a role. If Agatio is anything to by, Proxian warriors are ''very'' imperialistic. The guy wanted to TakeOverTheWorld. It can be assumed that Saturos and Menardi have similar mindsets.
*** ** It's also possible, since the attempted negotiations with Vale happened before the events of the prologue, that Saturos and Menardi were not specifically the ones doing the negotiations-- their diplomat was one of those killed in the failed attack on Sol Sanctum in the prologue, after negotiations failed.failed.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Desert Mia]]



*** You get PP by walking. That's not a valid justification.
*** Mercury is weak against fire. If anything, Mia would be MORE in danger than anyone else in the party. Also, Mia doesn't summon ice nor does she create water. She needs water, in either a form of a puddle or in water vapor, to do anything significant. Since they is low water pressure in the desert, there wouldn't be enough water in the air to hydrate the party, let alone cool them down. As for being able to still use spells effectively in combat, it's either GameplayAndStorySegregation or she's carrying water reserved specifically for her spells. If the latter case is true, using it to cool the party down would be foolish as it would leave her defenseless against the endless stream of monsters prowling around. Alternatively, she may not be able to get enough PP fast enough to constantly cast spells. In the desert, you are already going to be under a lot of physical stress. Adding a huge heaping amount of mental stress from using ki to constantly cool down the party would probably be the death of her especially when there's a perfectly good oasis right over there that Ivan can find with minimal effort.

to:

*** ** You get PP by walking. That's not a valid justification.
*** ** Mercury is weak against fire. If anything, Mia would be MORE in danger than anyone else in the party. Also, Mia doesn't summon ice nor does she create water. She needs water, in either a form of a puddle or in water vapor, to do anything significant. Since they is low water pressure in the desert, there wouldn't be enough water in the air to hydrate the party, let alone cool them down. As for being able to still use spells effectively in combat, it's either GameplayAndStorySegregation or she's carrying water reserved specifically for her spells. If the latter case is true, using it to cool the party down would be foolish as it would leave her defenseless against the endless stream of monsters prowling around. Alternatively, she may not be able to get enough PP fast enough to constantly cast spells. In the desert, you are already going to be under a lot of physical stress. Adding a huge heaping amount of mental stress from using ki to constantly cool down the party would probably be the death of her especially when there's a perfectly good oasis right over there that Ivan can find with minimal effort.effort.

[[/folder]]



* Why can't you solve Yallam's problem about the swamp drying up? During the first game, the characters walk around saving people from turning into trees, clearing mountain passes and what not, why is it that here, no explanation is given as to why the swamp dried up?

to:


[[folder:Yallam's Swamp]]

* Why can't you solve Yallam's problem about the swamp drying up? During the first game, the characters walk around saving people from turning into trees, clearing mountain passes and what not, why is it that here, no explanation is given as to why the swamp dried up? up?




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Contigo conversation]]



*** which basically means Felix has already did the same thing as what Isaac is not supposed to do. This raises another question of why did Felix did not bother explaining his motives to Isaac after the latter killed Saturos & Menardi at the first place.

to:

*** ** which basically means Felix has already did the same thing as what Isaac is not supposed to do. This raises another question of why did Felix did not bother explaining his motives to Isaac after the latter killed Saturos & Menardi at the first place.place.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Sequel location]]



*** Not to mention the Golden Sun I+ II world is pretty damn big. Given a few decades, there's plenty of time for things to have changed drastically all over.

to:

*** ** Not to mention the Golden Sun I+ II world is pretty damn big. Given a few decades, there's plenty of time for things to have changed drastically all over.



*** Instead, they end in the world eroding into a void. You see this at the Mars Lighthouse (and it's actually a plot point that you have to relight the beacon quickly or else the lighthouse will fall over the edge)
** Weyard is like a coin, with a different world on each side.

to:

*** ** Instead, they end in the world eroding into a void. You see this at the Mars Lighthouse (and it's actually a plot point that you have to relight the beacon quickly or else the lighthouse will fall over the edge)
** Weyard is like a coin, with a different world on each side.



*** The continents might even start growing back to the way they were on that map in Lemuria.
*** Teasers for ''Dark Dawn'' pretty much confirm this, saying that new lands and countries have arisen since the original games.

to:

*** ** The continents might even start growing back to the way they were on that map in Lemuria.
*** ** Teasers for ''Dark Dawn'' pretty much confirm this, saying that new lands and countries have arisen since the original games.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Alex fleeing]]



* Why do some people INSIST on calling The Lost Age "Golden Sun 2"? It's never once referred to by that name anywhere in the game or manual. It's just the second half of one game.
** [[CaptainObvious 'Cause it came out as a separate game taking place after "Golden Sun."]] Really, if it's absolutely necessary to treat them as the same game (which is how they were conceived, but not how they ended up), they shouldn't have called the [[strike:second]] other one "The Lost Age" at all.
** It is referred to as Book 2, so if it eases your troubled mind, perhaps they're just shortening Golden Sun Book 2.

to:

* Why do some people INSIST on calling The Lost Age "Golden Sun 2"? It's never once referred to by that name anywhere in the game or manual. It's just the second half of one game.
** [[CaptainObvious 'Cause it came out as a separate game taking place after "Golden Sun."]] Really, if it's absolutely necessary to treat them as the same game (which is how they were conceived, but not how they ended up), they shouldn't have called the [[strike:second]] other one "The Lost Age" at all.
** It is referred to as Book 2, so if it eases your troubled mind, perhaps they're just shortening Golden Sun Book 2.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mt. Aleph crater]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Healing Karst and Agatio]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Felix and the Jupiter Stone]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Dullahan alignment]]



[[WMG: The Interregnum between The Lost Age and [[JustBugsMe/{{Ptitlejxjnwzeo}} Dark Dawn]]]]

to:

[[/folder]]

[[WMG: The Interregnum between The Lost Age and [[JustBugsMe/{{Ptitlejxjnwzeo}} Dark Dawn]]]]Dawn]]

[[folder:Isaac naming his son]]



*** The Wise One never actually tried to ''kill'' Isaac. It was a SecretTestOfCharacter. [[spoiler:Also, the Wise One [[DoingInTheWizard isn't a god, but rather a living Philosopher's Stone]].]] [[FlatWhat Yeah]].
**** The former doesn't make sense at all.
**** Not even all the stuff about character-testing.

to:

*** ** The Wise One never actually tried to ''kill'' Isaac. It was a SecretTestOfCharacter. [[spoiler:Also, the Wise One [[DoingInTheWizard isn't a god, but rather a living Philosopher's Stone]].]] [[FlatWhat Yeah]].
**** ** The former doesn't make sense at all.
**** ** Not even all the stuff about character-testing.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Promotional art]]



*** Which means he doesn't get to be in promo art ? That's mean, Camelot.
*** It wouldn't be the first time. How long did we know about Felix, Jenna, and Sheba before Piers was finally revealed? (Although he was on all the TLA official art.)
**** In theory, couldn't Piers BE the fourth character for the new game? He's Lemurian, and even if he was banished, I'm sure the king would revoke that. He's probably still the same as he was in Lost Age. It would make sense to have someone along who saved the world last time, as a mentor or whatever, without it being one of their parents.
***** But that would give us three warrior-style adepts and one mage-style adept. Unless Dark Dawn has a total of eight playable party members, that seems very unlikely. Especially since there's a screenshot showing the HP values of a fourth character named Crown, [[strike: who, based on HP values and the elements of the other three characters, would appear to be a water adept with Ivan and Jenna's fighting style.]]
****** Crown has officially appeared in gameplay and appears to fight just like Mia.

to:

*** ** Which means he doesn't get to be in promo art ? That's mean, Camelot.
*** ** It wouldn't be the first time. How long did we know about Felix, Jenna, and Sheba before Piers was finally revealed? (Although he was on all the TLA official art.)
**** ** In theory, couldn't Piers BE the fourth character for the new game? He's Lemurian, and even if he was banished, I'm sure the king would revoke that. He's probably still the same as he was in Lost Age. It would make sense to have someone along who saved the world last time, as a mentor or whatever, without it being one of their parents.
***** ** But that would give us three warrior-style adepts and one mage-style adept. Unless Dark Dawn has a total of eight playable party members, that seems very unlikely. Especially since there's a screenshot showing the HP values of a fourth character named Crown, [[strike: who, based on HP values and the elements of the other three characters, would appear to be a water adept with Ivan and Jenna's fighting style.]]
****** ** Crown has officially appeared in gameplay and appears to fight just like Mia.



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Problem timeline]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Element names]]



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Doom Dragon replica]]



*** I think the parents that ended up being hacked, burned, water, frozen, tornadoed, and earth-quaked by the kids would find it more traumatic. Isaac: (laughing) "Hey, dad, remember that time we beat the living hell out of you and Jenna and Felix's parents?" Isaac's Dad: (twitching) Yes.

to:

*** ** I think the parents that ended up being hacked, burned, water, frozen, tornadoed, and earth-quaked by the kids would find it more traumatic. Isaac: (laughing) "Hey, dad, remember that time we beat the living hell out of you and Jenna and Felix's parents?" Isaac's Dad: (twitching) Yes.



*** The fact that it's never said that the original cast made it pretty much confirms that, especially since the area near where the ground is located has a lot of Isaac & co. [[HeroWorshipper fans]]. Also, bear in mind that the training ground was made for young Adepts. Telling the whole truth at such an early stage in their development would probably ''not'' have encouraged them to use their powers: they'd probably be spooked into never using them out of fear that something similar could happen to them.
** It is, literally, TheThemeParkVersion. And one of defining charateristics of that trope is...?

to:

*** ** The fact that it's never said that the original cast made it pretty much confirms that, especially since the area near where the ground is located has a lot of Isaac & co. [[HeroWorshipper fans]]. Also, bear in mind that the training ground was made for young Adepts. Telling the whole truth at such an early stage in their development would probably ''not'' have encouraged them to use their powers: they'd probably be spooked into never using them out of fear that something similar could happen to them.
them.
** It is, literally, TheThemeParkVersion. And one of defining charateristics characteristics of that trope is...?
?

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Ayuthay]]



*** FridgeBrilliance: So ''that'''s why they have the Sand Prince stone!

to:

*** ** FridgeBrilliance: So ''that'''s why they have the Sand Prince stone!
stone!

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Tret the tree]]



*** They do mention it's Tret in the training grounds. One of the signs you can read for prompting specifically says to burn away Tret's anger so his nice side will show again, or something like that.

to:

*** ** They do mention it's Tret in the training grounds. One of the signs you can read for prompting specifically says to burn away Tret's anger so his nice side will show again, or something like that.
that.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Himi]]


Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Resistance Patterns]]


Added DiffLines:


[[/folder]]
18th Jul '15 12:44:12 AM SPNova
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* While we're on the subject of the Karagol ship, during its voyage, Isaac and his party are told to protect the oarsmen from monsters. But if you explored the ship, you have to realize: ''there is only one way into the rowing deck'', which is through the door and down the stairway, past all the passengers standing right behind it. Why was Isaac and co. given such a straight IdiotBall where they could've just guarded the door to prevent monsters from coming in? ''Four times?''

to:

* While we're on the subject of the Karagol ship, during its voyage, Isaac and his party are told to protect the oarsmen from monsters. But if you explored the ship, you have to realize: ''there is only one way into the rowing deck'', which is through the door and down the stairway, past all the passengers standing right behind it. Why All the monsters got through to the oarsmen that way, so why was Isaac and co. given such a straight massive IdiotBall where they could've just guarded the door to prevent monsters from coming in? ''Four times?''
18th Jul '15 12:41:29 AM SPNova
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Added DiffLines:

* While we're on the subject of the Karagol ship, during its voyage, Isaac and his party are told to protect the oarsmen from monsters. But if you explored the ship, you have to realize: ''there is only one way into the rowing deck'', which is through the door and down the stairway, past all the passengers standing right behind it. Why was Isaac and co. given such a straight IdiotBall where they could've just guarded the door to prevent monsters from coming in? ''Four times?''
4th Apr '15 2:03:22 PM ACW
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* Why is Babi portrayed as anything other than a CompleteMonster? Let's look at everything he's done:

to:

* Why is Babi portrayed as anything other than a CompleteMonster? irredeemable villain? Let's look at everything he's done:



*** AffablyEvil? Most of this comes to light well after you first meet and befriend him, so it's not as though, upon saving his life, he'll go ahead and let you know he's a CompleteMonster.

to:

*** AffablyEvil? Most of this comes to light well after you first meet and befriend him, so it's not as though, upon saving his life, he'll go ahead and let you know he's a CompleteMonster.Complete Monster.



*** Well, if he really was such a CompleteMonster, maybe they realized it and were GenreSavvy enough to realize that declining would probably get them the same treatment as Sheba, if not worse. And he did give them a boat when they agreed. Also, Isaac's party never actually seemed to make it to Lemuria, and given that you don't see them until Jupiter Lighthouse in The Lost Age, it's entirely possible somewhere along the way they decided that it wasn't worth the trouble for an evil tyrant, especially once he was dead. Either that or they lost the boat and don't want to tell him. Mind you, this is all venturing into EpilepticTrees territory, [[FlatCharacter but it's the best I've got when the characters, much as I love them, are pretty flat.]]

to:

*** Well, if he really was such a CompleteMonster, CM, maybe they realized it and were GenreSavvy enough to realize that declining would probably get them the same treatment as Sheba, if not worse. And he did give them a boat when they agreed. Also, Isaac's party never actually seemed to make it to Lemuria, and given that you don't see them until Jupiter Lighthouse in The Lost Age, it's entirely possible somewhere along the way they decided that it wasn't worth the trouble for an evil tyrant, especially once he was dead. Either that or they lost the boat and don't want to tell him. Mind you, this is all venturing into EpilepticTrees territory, [[FlatCharacter but it's the best I've got when the characters, much as I love them, are pretty flat.]]
20th Feb '15 9:29:34 PM jyklos
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to:

* Why do the playable characters have a different pattern of elemental relationships than NPCs? I will mention four examples with Resistance values in brackets. (i) Djinn Dew who uses Mercury attacks (193 Mercury, 100/100 Venus/Jupiter, 25 Mars) (ii) Saturos who uses Mars attacks (175 Mars, 127 Venus, 100 Jupiter, 72 Mercury) (iii) Mercury adept (e.g. Mia) base stats (114 Mercury, 88 Venus, 87 Mars, 86 Jupiter) (iv) Fusion Dragon (consisting of 2x Venus and 1x Mars adept) (195 Venus, 175 Mars, 130 Mercury, 98 Jupiter). This shows (i) and (iv) use the same pattern but the rest are different. I would expect (ii) to be the logical pattern, with Resistance values from highest to lowest as: innate > symbiotic > neutral > weak.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.GoldenSun