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* Why do the Tantalus members use their real names when performing ''I Want to Be Your Canary'' at the start of the game? I find it hard to believe a play written by Final Fantasy's version of Creator/WilliamShakespeare has characters named Zidane and Blank.

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* Why do the Tantalus members use their real names when performing ''I Want to Be Your Canary'' at the start of the game? I find it hard to believe a play written by Final Fantasy's version of Creator/WilliamShakespeare has characters named Zidane and Blank.Blank.
** Tantulus actually is both a theater group AND a bunch of thieves. It kinda makes since that they might be actually named after characters in a famous play.
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* Why the heck does fanon so often agree that Vivi is some kind of Mist-ghost beneath his costume? Sure, he may superficially resemble TheHeartless, but in the Final Fantasy series at large, Black Mages have physical bodies within their shadow. Sure, Vivi is created out of Mist, but both Zidane and Kuja are constructs, too. And finally, Vivi eats, sleeps, urinates, and is poisoned (twice!) all in the course of the story - which certainly implies he's nothing more than a normal boy within the shadow. We even know Black Mages leave a physical body upon death, which is more than similar constructs in the Final Fantasy universe do!

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* Why the heck does fanon so often agree that Vivi is some kind of Mist-ghost beneath his costume? Sure, he may superficially resemble TheHeartless, but in the Final Fantasy series at large, Black Mages have physical bodies within their shadow. Sure, Vivi is created out of Mist, but both Zidane and Kuja are constructs, too. And finally, Vivi eats, sleeps, urinates, and is poisoned (twice!) all in the course of the story - which certainly implies he's nothing more than a normal boy within the shadow. We even know Black Mages leave a physical body upon death, which is more than similar constructs in the Final Fantasy universe do!do!

* Why do the Tantalus members use their real names when performing ''I Want to Be Your Canary'' at the start of the game? I find it hard to believe a play written by Final Fantasy's version of Creator/WilliamShakespeare has characters named Zidane and Blank.

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** Given that you can steal a Silk Shirt from Steiner regardless of whether Brahne gave him one or not, then it's clear that Steiner already has one Silk Shirt on him. The other Silk Shirt remains in the party's shared inventory.

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** Given that you can steal a Silk Shirt from Steiner regardless of whether Brahne gave him one or not, then it's clear that Steiner already has one Silk Shirt on him. The other Silk Shirt remains in the party's shared inventory. inventory if Steiner was given one, and isn't there if he wasn't.
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** Given that you can steal a Silk Shirt from Steiner regardless of whether Brahne gave him one or not, then it's clear that Steiner already has one Silk Shirt on him. The other Silk Shirt remains in the party's shared inventory.
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** Vivi understands what death is before the Black Mage Village. What sets him off is learning that Black Mages have a much shorter lifespan than he likely expected.
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*** At one point Quina tells Vivi "You DEFINITELY Human!"
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*** As for why passers-by call Vivi "just a boy", let's not forget that [=FF9=] is a world where you can race populated by anthropomorphic hippopotamus, fishes and birds. And that's not even counting the Qu Clan and Alexandria's blue-skinned queen. It wouldn't be far-fetched that they saw his face and simply assumed from his height that he was a kid from a species they didn't know yet.

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*** As for why passers-by call Vivi "just a boy", let's not forget that [=FF9=] is a world where you can race populated by anthropomorphic hippopotamus, fishes and birds. And that's not even counting the Qu Clan and Alexandria's blue-skinned queen. It wouldn't be far-fetched that they saw his face and simply assumed from his height that he was a kid from a species they didn't know yet.
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*** As for why passers-by call Vivi "just a boy", let's not forget that [=FF9=] is a world where you can race populated by anthropomorphic hippopotamus, fishes and birds. And that's not even counting the Qu Clan and Alexandria's blue-skinned queen. It wouldn't be far-fetched that they saw his face and simply assumed from his height that he was a kid from a species they didn't know yet.
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*** Kuja didn't receive a direct blast from Bahamut, the blasts strike in the foreground and background. He gets caught up in the secondary explosion, but flies away from the worst of it. Eidolons seem comparable to an atomic bomb every other time they're summoned, so of course Garland is afraid of them. It's like pondering why the US is afraid of nukes if they have nuke counters. They're nukes! We don't know the limits of the Invincible's dominion over Eidolons, nor of experienced summoners, so Garland's fear of eidolons should be evidence enough that they can be a threat to him.



** And maybe Bahamut doesn't cause as much damage to Kuja because he was created as the Angel of Death? Meaning that he's pretty strong against most forms of magic. If you look at what else the Eidolons do in the story - Odin destroying Cleyra with a throw of his sword, Atomos wiping out half of Lindblum and Bahamut causing some hefty damage to Alexandria - there are plenty of reasons to be wary of their power. Bear in mind we only see them used one at a time. Garland wiped out an entire village - presumably because the thought of a few hundred people being able to control these creatures was an intimidating one. The Invincible might be able to overpower ''one'' Eidolon, but I doubt that it would be much use against an entire army of them. Even Garnet and Eiko teaming together using their own Eidolons could probably bring the ship down if they attacked at the right time.

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** And maybe Bahamut doesn't cause as much damage to Kuja because he was created as the Angel of Death? Meaning that he's pretty strong against most forms of magic. If you look at what else the Eidolons do in the story - Odin destroying Cleyra with a throw of his sword, Atomos wiping out half of Lindblum and Bahamut causing some hefty damage to Alexandria - there are plenty of reasons to be wary of their power. Bear in mind we only see them used one at a time. Garland wiped out an entire village - presumably because the thought of a few hundred people being able to control these creatures was an intimidating one. The Invincible might be able to overpower ''one'' Eidolon, but I doubt that it would be much use against an entire army of them. Even Garnet and Eiko teaming together using their own Eidolons could probably bring the ship down if they attacked at the right time.time.

*Why the heck does fanon so often agree that Vivi is some kind of Mist-ghost beneath his costume? Sure, he may superficially resemble TheHeartless, but in the Final Fantasy series at large, Black Mages have physical bodies within their shadow. Sure, Vivi is created out of Mist, but both Zidane and Kuja are constructs, too. And finally, Vivi eats, sleeps, urinates, and is poisoned (twice!) all in the course of the story - which certainly implies he's nothing more than a normal boy within the shadow. We even know Black Mages leave a physical body upon death, which is more than similar constructs in the Final Fantasy universe do!
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** Well Madain Sari had a port, but it got destroyed by the Invincible, though clearly boats can still moor there. Port cities usually are set up to help with trade or fishing. The only settlements on the Outer Continent besides Madain Sari are the Conde Petie, which is a holy sanctuary, and the Black Mage Village, which is hidden. They're also very small settlements, as opposed to bustling cities like Lindblum and Alexandria.


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** The Final Fantasy Wiki has the full script of the play assembled from the scenes we see in the game. Prince Schneider doesn't seem to physically appear, except for when Steiner has to be him on the fly. Analysing the story, he's more an obstacle preventing Marcus and Cornelia from being together.
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** As you progress through Memoria, you go deeper into the shared memories of all life. Garland was hinting at this being the case, which is later explicitly spelled out when the party witness Gaia's early history and its creation.
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**** You're conflating unrelated events. Gaia formed as a molten ball, was once covered in ocean, and then developed into a terrestrial world with native civilisations, at which point Terra attempted a merger. Nothing in Memoria indicates Gaia was a ball of fire or covered in water when Terra attempted its merger - these glimpses of Gaia's past are all shown in reverse order in separate rooms (ie time periods) within Memoria, with the merger as the most recent.
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*** The only person whining here is you, but that's beside the point. The line is poorly-written, and I'm obviously not the only person who took it to mean that Garnet was completely ignorant of what a knife is because I'm not the only person who's ever edited this page, although you seem to think I am. It's a fantasy setting, daggers are very common weapons, she doesn't interrupt Zidane when he starts giving an educational speech, and Garnet's primary character trait at that point is that she's sheltered and ignorant. The fact that she has to ''ask'' what a dagger is makes her sound like an idiot, because it's something that ''should'' be common knowledge. That scene is one of her earliest character-building moments and made a terrible first impression on a ''lot'' of players, and getting pissy over it isn't helping your argument. You already laid out exactly why it looks bad, but you're attacking me for pointing it out, and that's not making you or your point look any better.
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** Good grief, you are making so much bigger a deal out of this than it is. She wasn't writing a dissertation on blades. She asked what one blade was called just for the sake of creating a pseudonym. She wasn't asking for encyclopedic knowledge. She picked up an object, asked what it's called, got an answer, and she moved on. At this point you're just dragging it out to gripe and whine.
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*** You're proving the point, here. The answer you're looking for is not "a dog", but if that was the answer you ''did'' get, would you just blindly accept that "dog" was the name of the breed? Because that's exactly what Garnet does in that scene. She asks what this object she's holding is called, and when Zidane tells her that it's a dagger, she takes it at face value and makes it her new name. That's not something anyone in their right mind would do ''unless'' they were so completely ignorant that they didn't know the difference.
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** I direct you to [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197338-final-fantasy-ix/faqs/36121 this Plot Analysis]] on GameFAQs. It includes theories on various things, and refutes your statement that the Moles had no idea how to use Eidolons.

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** I direct you to [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197338-final-fantasy-ix/faqs/36121 this Plot Analysis]] on GameFAQs.Website/GameFAQs. It includes theories on various things, and refutes your statement that the Moles had no idea how to use Eidolons.
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** Actually false, the TPK revive is a random summon of the Pheonix Eidolon that Eiko gets. It has a higher chance of happening based on the number of Phoenix Pinions in the party inventory.
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** Summoners are a threat to Garland and Kuja for a reason, and that was why they destroyed Madain Sari before the start of the game. While it's never stated, perhaps it's impossible to take control of an Eidolon that has been summoned by an actual Summoner, like Eiko and Garnet, as opposed to a 'false' one like Brahne? Granted Bahamut doesn't appear to do much damage to Kuja, but he is also being summoned by the very inexperienced and unnatural Brahne. Perhaps his power is a lot less because of that.

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** Summoners are a threat to Garland and Kuja for a reason, and that was why they destroyed Madain Sari before the start of the game. While it's never stated, perhaps it's impossible to take control of an Eidolon that has been summoned by an actual Summoner, like Eiko and Garnet, as opposed to a 'false' one like Brahne? Granted Bahamut doesn't appear to do much damage to Kuja, but he is also being summoned by the very inexperienced and unnatural Brahne. Perhaps his power is a lot less because of that.that.
** And maybe Bahamut doesn't cause as much damage to Kuja because he was created as the Angel of Death? Meaning that he's pretty strong against most forms of magic. If you look at what else the Eidolons do in the story - Odin destroying Cleyra with a throw of his sword, Atomos wiping out half of Lindblum and Bahamut causing some hefty damage to Alexandria - there are plenty of reasons to be wary of their power. Bear in mind we only see them used one at a time. Garland wiped out an entire village - presumably because the thought of a few hundred people being able to control these creatures was an intimidating one. The Invincible might be able to overpower ''one'' Eidolon, but I doubt that it would be much use against an entire army of them. Even Garnet and Eiko teaming together using their own Eidolons could probably bring the ship down if they attacked at the right time.
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*** Garland took steps to try and stamp out the Eidolons and their summons, so of COURSE Kuja focused on them first. He only saw Trance as an alternative when he saw that even a flipping Moogle could do it. Also, Ozma.

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*** Garland took steps to try and stamp out the Eidolons and their summons, summoners, so of COURSE Kuja focused on them first. He only saw Trance as an alternative when he saw that even a flipping Moogle could do it. Also, Ozma.
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*** Garland took steps to try and stamp out the Eidolons and their summons, so of COURSE Kuja focused on them first. He only saw Trance as an alternative when he saw that even a flipping Moogle could do it. Also, Ozma.
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**Actually Vivi knows about Death before he talks to No. 288. In fact No. 288 knows that 'stop moving' means death, and thanks Vivi for using their words.
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Headscratchers is not for Complaining.


** Or maybe Necron is really just a cheap excuse by the writers to give Kuja a VERY undeserved Heel-Face Turn.
*** Do you think we could maybe NOT make assumptions over the writing process based on claims that don't make a lick of sense? Seriously, how exactly does one "deserve" a Heel-Face Turn?
*** This troper's point is that Kuja is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.


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** Or maybe Necron is really just a cheap excuse by the writers to give Kuja a VERY undeserved Heel-Face Turn.
*** Do you think we could maybe NOT make assumptions over the writing process based on claims that don't make a lick of sense? Seriously, how exactly does one "deserve" a Heel-Face Turn?
*** This troper's point is that Kuja is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.



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*** Good one. Maybe another kinds of magical creatures? There are white mages(though not practical, I know) and Blue Mages(or Qus, for that matter) that could be replicated. Actually, Blue Mages/Qus would be a good choice, with their destructive [[Main/ExtremeOmnivore omnivorism]].

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*** Good one. Maybe another kinds of magical creatures? There are white mages(though White Mages(though not practical, I know) and Blue Mages(or Qus, for that matter) that could be replicated. Actually, Blue Mages/Qus would be a good choice, with their destructive [[Main/ExtremeOmnivore omnivorism]].



*** It's already been established that the worlds are different in each FF game. Comparing FFIX to any other FF game is like comparing the Star Wars universe and the Star trek one. You can't because they happen in different universes with different rules. Just because a human can change into a black mage in one game, doesn't mean it can happen in another.
*** While they do call him just a boy, there is a scene at one point where a black mage- I think it was one of the Waltzes- is killed, his hat comes off, and his head is still black. They may be calling him that because he's so short that they cannot see below the brim of his hat, and so simly assume that he's human under there.
*** I know this game very well, and there has never been a time when any Black Mage's hat came off, even in places that it should have, like the scene where the Cargo ship was hurtling towards South Gate on Disc 1. I think it's purposely ambiguous whether they have faces. You never see faces on a Black Mage, but comments from Eiko about Vivi's "long face" make you wonder if she sees a little boy's sad face. On the other hand, during Lindblum's attack scene, you see Black Mages are hurtling fireballs, the light from which never illuminate any of their faces.

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*** It's already been established that the worlds are different in each FF game. Comparing FFIX to any other FF game is like comparing the Star Wars universe and the Star trek Trek one. You can't because they happen in different universes with different rules. Just because a human can change into a black mage Black Mage in one game, doesn't mean it can happen in another.
*** While they do call him just a boy, there is a scene at one point where a black mage- Black Mage- I think it was one of the Waltzes- is killed, his hat comes off, and his head is still black. They may be calling him that because he's so short that they cannot see below the brim of his hat, and so simly simply assume that he's human under there.
*** I know this game very well, and there has never been a time when any Black Mage's hat came off, even in places that it should have, like the scene where the Cargo ship was hurtling towards South Gate on Disc 1. I think it's purposely ambiguous whether they have faces. You never see faces on a Black Mage, but comments from Eiko about Vivi's "long face" make you wonder if she sees a little boy's sad face. On the other hand, during Lindblum's attack scene, you see Black Mages are hurtling fireballs, the light from which never illuminate illuminates any of their faces.



*** Actually, there are a couple of sequences where Vivi eats solid food (the banquest in Lindblum in Disk 1, and the dinner at Madain Sari in Disk 2) along with everyone else. And he also fell victim to the sleeping weed Dagger put in everyone's food. My theory is that black mages are in fact flesh and blood creatures with black skin and bright golden eyes, transformed from the raw biological material in the chocobo eggs into humanoid shapes. As for why the black mages gained intelligence, I think it was because they managed to shake off the brainwashing Brahne and Kuja imposed on them. You see the same thing happening to the Genomes in Disk 4 when Zidane and company bring them back to the Black Mage Village. Vivi even mentions the parallels between them on Terra, when he says that the minds of the Genomes are not hollow, just "out to lunch". He also feels that they're similar, chances are because they were both made into puppets by an outside force, whether it be the influence imposed on them by Brahne or the suppression of their minds by Garland and the Terrans. When they were freed from that influence, they all began developing their own personalities. It ties back into the whole notion of finding your own way in life and not blindly following someone else's commands, which is one of the game's major themes.

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*** Actually, there are a couple of sequences where Vivi eats solid food (the banquest banquet in Lindblum in Disk 1, and the dinner at Madain Sari in Disk 2) along with everyone else. And he also fell victim to the sleeping weed Dagger put in everyone's food. My theory is that black mages are in fact flesh and blood creatures with black skin and bright golden eyes, transformed from the raw biological material in the chocobo eggs into humanoid shapes. As for why the black mages gained intelligence, I think it was because they managed to shake off the brainwashing Brahne and Kuja imposed on them. You see the same thing happening to the Genomes in Disk 4 when Zidane and company bring them back to the Black Mage Village. Vivi even mentions the parallels between them on Terra, when he says that the minds of the Genomes are not hollow, just "out to lunch". He also feels that they're similar, chances are because they were both made into puppets by an outside force, whether it be the influence imposed on them by Brahne or the suppression of their minds by Garland and the Terrans. When they were freed from that influence, they all began developing their own personalities. It ties back into the whole notion of finding your own way in life and not blindly following someone else's commands, which is one of the game's major themes.
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* Of all creatures, why creating artificial Black Mages? Sure, they've got magic, but maybe they should have thought this better and made some warriors, lancers and -- principally! -- summoners to make a better balanced army. After all, they're basically humans whose hat shadows cover their faces, right?

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* Of all creatures, why creating create artificial Black Mages? Sure, they've got magic, but maybe they should have thought this through better and made some warriors, lancers and -- principally! -- summoners to make a better balanced army. After all, they're basically humans whose hat shadows cover their faces, right?

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** This troper agrees on this and it is one of the many examples of the game's lazy/bad and clichèd writing, what makes it worse is that it's completely pointless as Kuja could have simply researched and achieved Trance right from the start, making the 70% of the game that took up his hunt for the Eidolons a complete waste of time.

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** This troper agrees on this and it is one of the many examples of the game's lazy/bad and clichèd writing, what makes it worse is that it's completely pointless as Kuja could have simply researched and achieved Trance right from the start, making the 70% of the game that took up his hunt for the Eidolons a complete waste of time.time.
** Summoners are a threat to Garland and Kuja for a reason, and that was why they destroyed Madain Sari before the start of the game. While it's never stated, perhaps it's impossible to take control of an Eidolon that has been summoned by an actual Summoner, like Eiko and Garnet, as opposed to a 'false' one like Brahne? Granted Bahamut doesn't appear to do much damage to Kuja, but he is also being summoned by the very inexperienced and unnatural Brahne. Perhaps his power is a lot less because of that.
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Weblinks Are Not Examples either. If you have a point to make, make that point — don't link to a fanfic and say, "This makes my point." This page is for discussing the game, not plugging a fanfic.


*** To simplify things, the chapter of this fanfic nicely sums up how this part of the game SHOULD have gone: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6925384/11/The-Thief-And-His-Princess



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*** To simplify things, the chapter of this fanfic nicely sums up how this part of the game SHOULD have gone: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6925384/11/The-Thief-And-His-Princess




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\n*** This troper's point is that Kuja is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

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The fanfic does belong if you're using it as an example of how the game should have gone




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\n*** To simplify things, the chapter of this fanfic nicely sums up how this part of the game SHOULD have gone: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6925384/11/The-Thief-And-His-Princess





* Why are Eidolons seen as so powerful to Garland and Kuja, when their own technology and power can destroy or directly control them via the Invincible? Hell, Kuja took a straight blast from Bahamut and all he cut was a scratch on his head! Why did Garland fear this power so much or why does Kuja think it would help him in any way?

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* Why are Eidolons seen as so powerful to Garland and Kuja, when their own technology and power can destroy or directly control them via the Invincible? Hell, Kuja took a straight blast from Bahamut and all he cut was a scratch on his head! Why did Garland fear this power so much or why does Kuja think it would help him in any way?way?
** This troper agrees on this and it is one of the many examples of the game's lazy/bad and clichèd writing, what makes it worse is that it's completely pointless as Kuja could have simply researched and achieved Trance right from the start, making the 70% of the game that took up his hunt for the Eidolons a complete waste of time.
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\n***Do you think we could maybe NOT make assumptions over the writing process based on claims that don't make a lick of sense? Seriously, how exactly does one "deserve" a Heel-Face Turn?

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** This troper took it to mean Zidane had been on the ship when Madain Sari had been destroyed. there by he had been present when the event happened allowing him to see what had transpired. after which kuja booted him out onto Gaia.

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** This troper took it to mean Zidane had been on the ship when Madain Sari had been destroyed. there by he had been present when the event happened allowing him to see what had transpired. after which kuja booted him out onto Gaia.Gaia.

* Why are Eidolons seen as so powerful to Garland and Kuja, when their own technology and power can destroy or directly control them via the Invincible? Hell, Kuja took a straight blast from Bahamut and all he cut was a scratch on his head! Why did Garland fear this power so much or why does Kuja think it would help him in any way?

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