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** Consider the diplomatic stink that would happen if Cid openly took Garnet away from Brahne; the whole "kidnapping and ransom" thing is just a cover for what is really a rescue.
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** Consider the diplomatic stink that would happen if Cid openly took Garnet away from Brahne; the whole "kidnapping and ransom" thing is just a cover for what is really a rescue.rescue.
** Given Zidane also seems surprised when Cid reveals he and Baku were pals it's possible Baku kept the fact that they'd been hired by the regent to take Garnet to him to himself and just told his men they were gonna kidnap her for a ransom. Zidane didn't really seem to know this part of the plan, otherwise he'd probably have been more open with Garnet about it and would have said something to Steiner about how they'd been hired by Regent Cid to escort her under the cover of a kidnapping if only in an attempt to shut Steiner up about constantly giving him grief.
** Given Zidane also seems surprised when Cid reveals he and Baku were pals it's possible Baku kept the fact that they'd been hired by the regent to take Garnet to him to himself and just told his men they were gonna kidnap her for a ransom. Zidane didn't really seem to know this part of the plan, otherwise he'd probably have been more open with Garnet about it and would have said something to Steiner about how they'd been hired by Regent Cid to escort her under the cover of a kidnapping if only in an attempt to shut Steiner up about constantly giving him grief.
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* This is something this troper has noticed while binging through the FF series, but 99% of the time, characters that you can rename are afflicted with NoLastNameGiven (which probably made a handful of FFVIII fans confused by Squall going by "Leon" in ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'', not realizing that his lastname is ''Leon''hart). That 1% (as far as this troper can tell) goes to Edelbert Steiner, who not only has both first and last names appear in-game, but his last name is the one you can change (since that's what he goes by). Why do other characters have their last names relegated to AllThereInTheManual, but not Steiner's first name?
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* This is something this troper has noticed while binging through the FF series, but 99% of the time, characters that you can rename are afflicted with NoLastNameGiven (which probably made a handful of FFVIII fans confused by Squall going by "Leon" in ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'', not realizing that his lastname is ''Leon''hart). That 1% (as far as this troper can tell) goes to Edelbert Steiner, who not only has both first and last names appear in-game, but his last name is the one you can change (since that's what he goes by). Why do other characters have their last names relegated to AllThereInTheManual, but not Steiner's first name?name?
* At one point, Garland tells Zidane that Kuja has a tail, but hides it. How?! Does he [[AssShove shove it you-know-where]]?
** He wears clothes that hide the tail. His...skirt/cape thing keeps the tail hidden. When he's in Trance, the thing is flared which exposes the tail.
* At the beginning of the game, the Tantalus say they are kidnapping Garnet to get a hefty ransom. Didn't Cid contract them to get her?
** Cid is paying the ransom to have her kidnapped. A ransom is just a price paid for a hostage. It wasn't uncommon to capture nobles to ransom back to their country after a battle, for example. The context in the game means it would probably be called a "bounty" in real life, but ransom is still a correct word for it.
** Knowing Baku, he didn't agree to kidnap the princess out of the goodness of his heart. Cid must have agreed to pay him something. Also perhaps he was hoping the Queen would pay a ransom to get her back and he would get even more money?
** Consider the diplomatic stink that would happen if Cid openly took Garnet away from Brahne; the whole "kidnapping and ransom" thing is just a cover for what is really a rescue.
* At one point, Garland tells Zidane that Kuja has a tail, but hides it. How?! Does he [[AssShove shove it you-know-where]]?
** He wears clothes that hide the tail. His...skirt/cape thing keeps the tail hidden. When he's in Trance, the thing is flared which exposes the tail.
* At the beginning of the game, the Tantalus say they are kidnapping Garnet to get a hefty ransom. Didn't Cid contract them to get her?
** Cid is paying the ransom to have her kidnapped. A ransom is just a price paid for a hostage. It wasn't uncommon to capture nobles to ransom back to their country after a battle, for example. The context in the game means it would probably be called a "bounty" in real life, but ransom is still a correct word for it.
** Knowing Baku, he didn't agree to kidnap the princess out of the goodness of his heart. Cid must have agreed to pay him something. Also perhaps he was hoping the Queen would pay a ransom to get her back and he would get even more money?
** Consider the diplomatic stink that would happen if Cid openly took Garnet away from Brahne; the whole "kidnapping and ransom" thing is just a cover for what is really a rescue.
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Changed line(s) 323 (click to see context) from:
* This is something this troper has noticed while binging through the FF series, but 99% of the time, characters that you can rename are afflicted with NoLastNameGiven (which probably made a handful of FFVIII fans confused by Squall going by "Leon" in ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts'', not realizing that his lastname is ''Leon''hart). That 1% (as far as this troper can tell) goes to Edelbert Steiner, who not only has both first and last names appear in-game, but his last name is the one you can change (since that's what he goes by). Why do other characters have their last names relegated to AllThereInTheManual, but not Steiner's first name?
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* This is something this troper has noticed while binging through the FF series, but 99% of the time, characters that you can rename are afflicted with NoLastNameGiven (which probably made a handful of FFVIII fans confused by Squall going by "Leon" in ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts'', ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'', not realizing that his lastname is ''Leon''hart). That 1% (as far as this troper can tell) goes to Edelbert Steiner, who not only has both first and last names appear in-game, but his last name is the one you can change (since that's what he goes by). Why do other characters have their last names relegated to AllThereInTheManual, but not Steiner's first name?
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** Alexander was summoned to protect Alexandria, not just fight off Bahamut. The attack was still going on so he stuck around in case something else showed up. Unfortunately that was a bad move on everyone's part because it allowed Garland to destroy him but if I recall they didn't really know why Bahamut turned on Brahne and started working for Kuja, just that it did and they didn't realize there an evil Airship that could possess or destroy Eidolons until it was too late.
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** Alexander was summoned to protect Alexandria, not just fight off Bahamut. The attack was still going on so he stuck around in case something else showed up. Unfortunately that was a bad move on everyone's part because it allowed Garland to destroy him but if I recall they didn't really know why Bahamut turned on Brahne and started working for Kuja, just that it did and they didn't realize there an evil Airship that could possess or destroy Eidolons until it was too late.late.
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* This is something this troper has noticed while binging through the FF series, but 99% of the time, characters that you can rename are afflicted with NoLastNameGiven (which probably made a handful of FFVIII fans confused by Squall going by "Leon" in ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts'', not realizing that his lastname is ''Leon''hart). That 1% (as far as this troper can tell) goes to Edelbert Steiner, who not only has both first and last names appear in-game, but his last name is the one you can change (since that's what he goes by). Why do other characters have their last names relegated to AllThereInTheManual, but not Steiner's first name?
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* This is something this troper has noticed while binging through the FF series, but 99% of the time, characters that you can rename are afflicted with NoLastNameGiven (which probably made a handful of FFVIII fans confused by Squall going by "Leon" in ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts'', not realizing that his lastname is ''Leon''hart). That 1% (as far as this troper can tell) goes to Edelbert Steiner, who not only has both first and last names appear in-game, but his last name is the one you can change (since that's what he goes by). Why do other characters have their last names relegated to AllThereInTheManual, but not Steiner's first name?
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**** It always seemed like Zidane had far more powerful and destructive potential that he realized because he had no memory of his past and was trained to be a dagger wielding thief relying on agility and swiftness rather than extreme power and magic. So while Zidane could have potentially had the magic and flashy powers Kuja did, he never got the training for it so only his Dyne skills during Trance let him use that kind of potential. Note that most of his advanced Dyne skills are very similar destructive energy attacks as the stuff Kuja and Garland can do so he has the potential. But of course, he does not and definitely does not in Disc 1 so this is just a theoretical. You are correct he'd get stomped by the Black Mages and Beatrix.
*** It always seemed like the summoners intent and will to damage is what limits or unlimits an Eidolon's power. Garnet and Eiko are good relatively caring people so they only muster just enough hostile intent to do one decently powerful attack to a group of monsters or boss to protect themselves and their friends(and without Boost sometimes not even enough for the Eidolon to full manifest and just toss out an attack from offscreen), while Brahne was in full crazy evil mode and desired to conquer or destroy the offending country when she summoned her's so she got Kaiju sized Eidolon's with city leveling destructive power. If a summoner with enough hostile intent to summon up something big and powerful enough to destroy Garland challenged him with a strong enough Eidolon they would be a serious threat.
** Would wouldn't he help? Sure it wasn't part of his job or programming but there was no way in hell he was just gonna let Kuja have his little genocidal temper tantrum and destroy the whole planet especially after he killed him and ruined his Terra takeover plot. He'd do it purely to spite him if anything.
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** That was Hilda Garde 3 that was built out of the Blue Narciss and that ship actually worked perfectly. The problem with 2 was that it was designed to fly without Mist just like he Hilda Garde 1, but the engine was faulty because Cid had to build the engine from scratch after the first was stolen by Hilda and eventually taken by Kuja (so he couldn't just use 1's engine as a refrence point because he no longer had it) and his Oglop and later Frog curse had made it so that his mind and thinking was off and he couldn't properly remember how he got the Mist free engine to work in the first place. That's why he builds 3 immediately after being restored to a human, as he can now think properly again.
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** Fair enough on the first part, but I'm a bit confused on where you get the idea that some of the Eidolons are just "uncaring forces of nature"? Everything suggest that they are sapient. Odin, Atomos and Bahamut had to do Brane's bidding because she had been given the power to summon them through their jewels (and later Bahamut had to follow Kuja's commands because Kuja used the Invincible to enslave him. Ramuh even spells out that Eidolons are bound to the will of their summoner (whether through a proper pact or through forced means like Brane/Kuja)
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** Fair enough on the first part, but I'm a bit confused on where you get the idea that some of the Eidolons are just "uncaring forces of nature"? Everything suggest that they are sapient. Odin, Atomos and Bahamut had to do Brane's bidding because she had been given the power to summon them through their jewels (and later Bahamut had to follow Kuja's commands because Kuja used the Invincible to enslave him. Ramuh even spells out that Eidolons are bound to the will of their summoner (whether through a proper pact or through forced means like Brane/Kuja)Brane/Kuja)
** Alexander was summoned to protect Alexandria, not just fight off Bahamut. The attack was still going on so he stuck around in case something else showed up. Unfortunately that was a bad move on everyone's part because it allowed Garland to destroy him but if I recall they didn't really know why Bahamut turned on Brahne and started working for Kuja, just that it did and they didn't realize there an evil Airship that could possess or destroy Eidolons until it was too late.
** Alexander was summoned to protect Alexandria, not just fight off Bahamut. The attack was still going on so he stuck around in case something else showed up. Unfortunately that was a bad move on everyone's part because it allowed Garland to destroy him but if I recall they didn't really know why Bahamut turned on Brahne and started working for Kuja, just that it did and they didn't realize there an evil Airship that could possess or destroy Eidolons until it was too late.
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*** Exactly. Garland says Kuja was only to last until Zidane grew and he would be dead "soon". While "soon" is relative, especially for a long lived being such as Garland, Zidane is 16 already and will be a grown man in another year or so so that's probably about how long Kuja had left. Not long enough to leave "his mark on the world" which another 50 years or so would have been plenty of time.
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** In addition, if I recall correctly, the last thing Garland says to the party is that, even if he was created for a single purpose and failed, he was glad to have been alive. This is a completely unnecessary statement to make to Zidane. It us pure, earnest sentimentality. Garland is another artifical being following programming, but like Zidane and Kuja he does have sapieance and, at least limited, free will. It makes him happy to exercise it. To make a choice. To be alive. And when it comes to a choice between favourite son Zidane and failure son who killed him Kuja, he's going to pick Kuja (though its not out of the realm of possibility he had been simultanoustly talking to Kuja trying to convince him to stop).
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**I recall the Ultimania saying something about why the assimilation didn't work in an event timeline. Terra's cystal had become old and frail, and in order to save it Garland needed to find a very young crystal for it to absorb. Gaia was the youngest planet he could find, but it was old enough that it would be able to fight back. Since he didn't have enough time to look elsewhere, Garland went ahead and tried anyway. It backfired. Gaia's crystal was young and strong, so it ended up absorbing Terra. Garland had to change his plans. Normally when something dies on a planet it returns to the crystal. He planted the Iifa Tree to have it's roots absorb the souls and dump them on the surface. This way he would be able to take Terra's soulstream and move it into Gaia's crystal.
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** Eiko and Dagger summoned Alexander to protect the kingdom, so maybe they didn't feel safe yet? Or maybe Alexander could tell the Invincible was nearby and wanted to keep protecting them? The summons in 9 are very odd in that some seem to be perfectly sentient beings with wills of their own and others just seem to be uncaring forces of nature, so without telling which category Alexander fell under, it is impossible to tell.
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** Eiko and Dagger summoned Alexander to protect the kingdom, so maybe they didn't feel safe yet? Or maybe Alexander could tell the Invincible was nearby and wanted to keep protecting them? The summons in 9 are very odd in that some seem to be perfectly sentient beings with wills of their own and others just seem to be uncaring forces of nature, so without telling which category Alexander fell under, it is impossible to tell.tell.
** Fair enough on the first part, but I'm a bit confused on where you get the idea that some of the Eidolons are just "uncaring forces of nature"? Everything suggest that they are sapient. Odin, Atomos and Bahamut had to do Brane's bidding because she had been given the power to summon them through their jewels (and later Bahamut had to follow Kuja's commands because Kuja used the Invincible to enslave him. Ramuh even spells out that Eidolons are bound to the will of their summoner (whether through a proper pact or through forced means like Brane/Kuja)
** Fair enough on the first part, but I'm a bit confused on where you get the idea that some of the Eidolons are just "uncaring forces of nature"? Everything suggest that they are sapient. Odin, Atomos and Bahamut had to do Brane's bidding because she had been given the power to summon them through their jewels (and later Bahamut had to follow Kuja's commands because Kuja used the Invincible to enslave him. Ramuh even spells out that Eidolons are bound to the will of their summoner (whether through a proper pact or through forced means like Brane/Kuja)
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* During the Battle of Alexandria...why did Alexander hang around after being summoned? Garnet and Eiko summoned Alexander to defeat Bahamut, which was quickly accomplished. Now both in in-game battles and in the cutscenes Eidolons always disappear very quickly after fulfilling their operative (Odin dissappeared after obliterating Cleyra, Atomos after decimating Lindblum etc.) however only in this one instance Alexander remained by the castle for quite a long time (long enough for Kuja and Garland to make their speeches) after he had defeated Bahamut. He wasn't even in a fighting stance anymore, with his wings in a relaxed position (it was only after the Invincible did that...laser circle thing...that Alexander used his wings to enfold the castle again in an attempt to protect it. It's almost as if Alexander hung around on purpose so that Garland could kill him and obliterate Alexandria.
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* During the Battle of Alexandria...why did Alexander hang around after being summoned? Garnet and Eiko summoned Alexander to defeat Bahamut, which was quickly accomplished. Now both in in-game battles and in the cutscenes Eidolons always disappear very quickly after fulfilling their operative (Odin dissappeared after obliterating Cleyra, Atomos after decimating Lindblum etc.) however only in this one instance Alexander remained by the castle for quite a long time (long enough for Kuja and Garland to make their speeches) after he had defeated Bahamut. He wasn't even in a fighting stance anymore, with his wings in a relaxed position (it was only after the Invincible did that...laser circle thing...that Alexander used his wings to enfold the castle again in an attempt to protect it. It's almost as if Alexander hung around on purpose so that Garland could kill him and obliterate Alexandria.Alexandria.
** Eiko and Dagger summoned Alexander to protect the kingdom, so maybe they didn't feel safe yet? Or maybe Alexander could tell the Invincible was nearby and wanted to keep protecting them? The summons in 9 are very odd in that some seem to be perfectly sentient beings with wills of their own and others just seem to be uncaring forces of nature, so without telling which category Alexander fell under, it is impossible to tell.
** Eiko and Dagger summoned Alexander to protect the kingdom, so maybe they didn't feel safe yet? Or maybe Alexander could tell the Invincible was nearby and wanted to keep protecting them? The summons in 9 are very odd in that some seem to be perfectly sentient beings with wills of their own and others just seem to be uncaring forces of nature, so without telling which category Alexander fell under, it is impossible to tell.
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** I think the problem was that it was a remodelled sea ship (The Blue Narciss). Presumably a sea ship is not at being an air ship as one that was specifically constructed to be an air ship.
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** I think the problem was that it was a remodelled sea ship (The Blue Narciss). Presumably a sea ship is not as good at being an air ship as one that was specifically constructed to be an air ship.
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** I think the problem was that it was a remodelled sea ship (The Blue Narciss). Presumably a sea ship is not at being an air ship as one that was specifically constructed to be an air ship.
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* During the Battle of Alexandria...why did Alexander hang around after being summoned? Garnet and Eiko summoned Alexander to defeat Bahamut, which was quickly accomplished. Now both in in-game battles and in the cutscenes Eidolons always disappear very quickly after fulfilling their operative (Odin dissappeared after obliterating Cleyra, Atomos after decimating Lindblum etc.) however only in this one instance Alexander remained by the castle for quite a long time (long enough for Kuja and Garland to make their speeches) after he had defeated Bahamut. He wasn't even in a fighting stance anymore, with his wings in a relaxed position (it was only after the Invincible did that...laser circle thing...that Alexander used his wings to enfold the castle again in an attempt to protect it.
It's almost as if Alexander hung around on purpose so that Garland could kill him and obliterate Alexandria.
It's almost as if Alexander hung around on purpose so that Garland could kill him and obliterate Alexandria.
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* During the Battle of Alexandria...why did Alexander hang around after being summoned? Garnet and Eiko summoned Alexander to defeat Bahamut, which was quickly accomplished. Now both in in-game battles and in the cutscenes Eidolons always disappear very quickly after fulfilling their operative (Odin dissappeared after obliterating Cleyra, Atomos after decimating Lindblum etc.) however only in this one instance Alexander remained by the castle for quite a long time (long enough for Kuja and Garland to make their speeches) after he had defeated Bahamut. He wasn't even in a fighting stance anymore, with his wings in a relaxed position (it was only after the Invincible did that...laser circle thing...that Alexander used his wings to enfold the castle again in an attempt to protect it. \n It's almost as if Alexander hung around on purpose so that Garland could kill him and obliterate Alexandria.
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* What was wrong with the design of the Hilda Garde 2? Was there anything about its shape or design in the official art that suggests it was a piece of junk? I'm not an aerospace expert, so I couldn't see anything wrong with it.
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* What was wrong with the design of the Hilda Garde 2? Was there anything about its shape or design in the official art that suggests it was a piece of junk? I'm not an aerospace expert, so I couldn't see anything wrong with it.it.
*During the Battle of Alexandria...why did Alexander hang around after being summoned? Garnet and Eiko summoned Alexander to defeat Bahamut, which was quickly accomplished. Now both in in-game battles and in the cutscenes Eidolons always disappear very quickly after fulfilling their operative (Odin dissappeared after obliterating Cleyra, Atomos after decimating Lindblum etc.) however only in this one instance Alexander remained by the castle for quite a long time (long enough for Kuja and Garland to make their speeches) after he had defeated Bahamut. He wasn't even in a fighting stance anymore, with his wings in a relaxed position (it was only after the Invincible did that...laser circle thing...that Alexander used his wings to enfold the castle again in an attempt to protect it.
It's almost as if Alexander hung around on purpose so that Garland could kill him and obliterate Alexandria.
*During the Battle of Alexandria...why did Alexander hang around after being summoned? Garnet and Eiko summoned Alexander to defeat Bahamut, which was quickly accomplished. Now both in in-game battles and in the cutscenes Eidolons always disappear very quickly after fulfilling their operative (Odin dissappeared after obliterating Cleyra, Atomos after decimating Lindblum etc.) however only in this one instance Alexander remained by the castle for quite a long time (long enough for Kuja and Garland to make their speeches) after he had defeated Bahamut. He wasn't even in a fighting stance anymore, with his wings in a relaxed position (it was only after the Invincible did that...laser circle thing...that Alexander used his wings to enfold the castle again in an attempt to protect it.
It's almost as if Alexander hung around on purpose so that Garland could kill him and obliterate Alexandria.
