History Headscratchers / CommandAndConquer

16th Jul '16 5:03:43 PM starman117
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*** Korea is free as well in this universe not a colony of Japan, so something happened to the Japanese Empire in the original Red Alert universe. The presence of the Arizona and Iwo Jima memorials make it safe to say that America had its own pacific war in this world separate to the war with Russia.
5th Jun '16 8:20:21 AM Doug86
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** To add to this, current borders of Poland (seen on the in-game map) are a result of FOUR separate arrangements which took part during UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo - (1) The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, which established the German and Soviet zones in occupied Poland (2) an addendum to R-M, which gave Volhynia and Lvov area to Germans (3) Agreement between Roosevelt and Stalin, incorporating the entire Soviet occupation zone AND Volhynia-Lvov into the USSR (4) Final arrangements at the end of the war, giving Masuria, Pomerania and Silesia to the newly-founded communist state in Poland.

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** To add to this, current borders of Poland (seen on the in-game map) are a result of FOUR separate arrangements which took part during UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo UsefulNotes/WorldWarII - (1) The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, which established the German and Soviet zones in occupied Poland (2) an addendum to R-M, which gave Volhynia and Lvov area to Germans (3) Agreement between Roosevelt and Stalin, incorporating the entire Soviet occupation zone AND Volhynia-Lvov into the USSR (4) Final arrangements at the end of the war, giving Masuria, Pomerania and Silesia to the newly-founded communist state in Poland.



* Between [=RA1=] and UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne (Which wasn't affected by Einstein), where the HELL did the tanks go? And planes? Why does the war start with the most heavily armored vehicle is a JEEP WITH A MACHINE GUN? (Not taking into account the Ore Trucks)

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* Between [=RA1=] and UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne UsefulNotes/WorldWarI (Which wasn't affected by Einstein), where the HELL did the tanks go? And planes? Why does the war start with the most heavily armored vehicle is a JEEP WITH A MACHINE GUN? (Not taking into account the Ore Trucks)
19th Mar '16 8:43:52 AM Discar
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*** A much better explaination is that you're not restricted by rank, but by mission requirements. In the Allied campaign, your first mission to rescue Einstein likely used local guerillas and covert forces that could have infiltrated with greater ease than an entire armoured division. The briefing for the second mission already states they have little material in the area, and no time to provide you anything better. Mission three is again focussed on commando operations. By the fourth mission, they were apparently able to release some light armour suited for mountainous terrain. From the fifth mission on however, you have access to the mainstay of the Allied arsenal minus the more fanciful late technologies such as the Chronosphere, GPS satellite or gap generator which hadn't been invented yet. It's not that your technology disappeared or that you're not trusted, the generals have complete confidence in your ability to handle their best weapons. It's simply that most of the time, the best in [[AwesomeButImpractical impractical]] or just not in supply.

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*** ** A much better explaination is that you're not restricted by rank, but by mission requirements. In the Allied campaign, your first mission to rescue Einstein likely used local guerillas and covert forces that could have infiltrated with greater ease than an entire armoured division. The briefing for the second mission already states they have little material in the area, and no time to provide you anything better. Mission three is again focussed on commando operations. By the fourth mission, they were apparently able to release some light armour suited for mountainous terrain. From the fifth mission on however, you have access to the mainstay of the Allied arsenal minus the more fanciful late technologies such as the Chronosphere, GPS satellite or gap generator which hadn't been invented yet. It's not that your technology disappeared or that you're not trusted, the generals have complete confidence in your ability to handle their best weapons. It's simply that most of the time, the best in [[AwesomeButImpractical impractical]] or just not in supply.
19th Mar '16 8:09:33 AM cdcdrr
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*** A much better explaination is that you're not restricted by rank, but by mission requirements. In the Allied campaign, your first mission to rescue Einstein likely used local guerillas and covert forces that could have infiltrated with greater ease than an entire armoured division. The briefing for the second mission already states they have little material in the area, and no time to provide you anything better. Mission three is again focussed on commando operations. By the fourth mission, they were apparently able to release some light armour suited for mountainous terrain. From the fifth mission on however, you have access to the mainstay of the Allied arsenal minus the more fanciful late technologies such as the Chronosphere, GPS satellite or gap generator which hadn't been invented yet. It's not that your technology disappeared or that you're not trusted, the generals have complete confidence in your ability to handle their best weapons. It's simply that most of the time, the best in [[AwesomeButImpractical impractical]] or just not in supply.
15th Jan '16 6:24:50 AM Anddrix
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* The maps of [=RA1=]. If you'll take a look at the maps seen during the briefings, you'll see a Europe that, with the exception of a unified Germany, looks exactly like [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Cold_war_europe_military_alliances_map_en.png Europe during the Cold War]]. As has already been pointed out on the main page, [[http://www.wall-maps.com/Classroom/HISTORY/World/Europe1938.gif pre-WWII Europe did not look like that]]. Now, the fact that the developers [[ViewersAreMorons apparently thought that no-one would notice or care]] is bothersome enough, but what really gets this troper is that they ''did'' bother to get the map right in some of the cutscenes (such as, if this troper recalls correctly, the cutscene shown after failing the first Allied mission). Really makes you wonder, doesn't it?

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* The maps of [=RA1=]. If you'll take a look at the maps seen during the briefings, you'll see a Europe that, with the exception of a unified Germany, looks exactly like [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Cold_war_europe_military_alliances_map_en.png Europe during the Cold War]]. As has already been pointed out on the main page, [[http://www.wall-maps.com/Classroom/HISTORY/World/Europe1938.gif pre-WWII Europe did not look like that]]. Now, the fact that the developers [[ViewersAreMorons apparently thought that no-one would notice or care]] care is bothersome enough, but what really gets this troper is that they ''did'' bother to get the map right in some of the cutscenes (such as, if this troper recalls correctly, the cutscene shown after failing the first Allied mission). Really makes you wonder, doesn't it?
2nd Jan '16 6:58:57 PM Doug86
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** The AllInTheManual explanation for Tesla is that the NKVD broke into his office and carted off what must have been a few metric tons of material and documentation before Tesla got wise and called Western intelligence down to causterize that particular intelligence leak. As for the others, [[ChessMaster Kane.]]

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** The AllInTheManual AllThereInTheManual explanation for Tesla is that the NKVD broke into his office and carted off what must have been a few metric tons of material and documentation before Tesla got wise and called Western intelligence down to causterize that particular intelligence leak. As for the others, [[ChessMaster Kane.]]
24th Oct '15 7:10:27 AM Morgenthaler
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** The Allies liked their current timeline(with them ''winning'' and all), realized that using the time machine could result in many unpleasant changes and that they should only use it as a last case scenario. They're probably also GenreSavvy, using Time Travel to mess with time doesn't end up with the scenario you wanted in this series. Then the Soviets got their own machine up and running before the Allies could find out about it. Once the soviets killed Einstein the [=RA2=] Allies couldn't stop them anymore, due to being the [=RA3=] Allies now, or in the previous timeline unable to effect the [=RA3=] timeline as far as I know. The Allies in the [=RA3=] timeline didn't have Einstein make them a time machine so unless it's in the [=RA3=] expansion pack which I didn't get, nothing point to them being able to head backwards in time in the new timeline besides some chrono tech which doesn't mean they have something that can go backwards any further than Tanya's belt can.

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** The Allies liked their current timeline(with them ''winning'' and all), realized that using the time machine could result in many unpleasant changes and that they should only use it as a last case scenario. They're probably also GenreSavvy, cautious, using Time Travel to mess with time doesn't end up with the scenario you wanted in this series. Then the Soviets got their own machine up and running before the Allies could find out about it. Once the soviets killed Einstein the [=RA2=] Allies couldn't stop them anymore, due to being the [=RA3=] Allies now, or in the previous timeline unable to effect the [=RA3=] timeline as far as I know. The Allies in the [=RA3=] timeline didn't have Einstein make them a time machine so unless it's in the [=RA3=] expansion pack which I didn't get, nothing point to them being able to head backwards in time in the new timeline besides some chrono tech which doesn't mean they have something that can go backwards any further than Tanya's belt can.
24th Aug '15 10:18:47 AM Discar
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*** I agree. Don't forget that the 'boring' faction in [=RA3=] is the one with helicopters that can freeze or shrink stuff, an amphibious battleship, a commando who's only armor is a rather 'well proportioned' chest and war dolphins capable of sinking ships with sound waves. [[spoiler:Oh and a weaponized Mount Rushmore all run by a President that makes real world Presidents look normal and is actually a robot who's working for the bad guys.]] That's the boring guys...

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*** ** I agree. Don't forget that the 'boring' faction in [=RA3=] is the one with helicopters that can freeze or shrink stuff, an amphibious battleship, a commando who's only armor is a rather 'well proportioned' chest and war dolphins capable of sinking ships with sound waves. [[spoiler:Oh and a weaponized Mount Rushmore all run by a President that makes real world Presidents look normal and is actually a robot who's working for the bad guys.]] That's the boring guys...



*** That still does not make sense. The reason Japan and the USA went to war in reality was because of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour (and Hawaii is Japanese in Red Alert 3, even) after the United States and the Netherlands cut Japan off from metal and oil exports. In Red Alert, Germany does not occupy or distract the European colonial powers to allow Japan a chance at taking their colonies. Instead they are fighting a desperate battle against the Soviet Union, a power that the Empire of Japan was terribly afraid of. Background information even indicates Stalin persued war in Asia before turning his attention to Europe, so it is very likely the two countries battled each other over control over China. Not only would it have been foolish for the Japanese to attack the United States and European nations while the Soviet Union was becoming ever more aggressive, it would have been even less believeable that America would persue war on Japan, which was their best bet at preventing Soviet domination of Asia.
**** Nevertheless, Japan probably did attack Pearl Harbor sometime between Red Alert and Red Alert 2 just like the historical timeline, since the Arizona memorial is still there.
***** Arizona and Iwo Jima memorials /=/ Historical events happened!!!! They could've put the former up because-say- a Soviet submarine or pro-Communist Hawaiian terrorist destroyed the Arizona in this timeline.

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*** ** That still does not make sense. The reason Japan and the USA went to war in reality was because of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour (and Hawaii is Japanese in Red Alert 3, even) after the United States and the Netherlands cut Japan off from metal and oil exports. In Red Alert, Germany does not occupy or distract the European colonial powers to allow Japan a chance at taking their colonies. Instead they are fighting a desperate battle against the Soviet Union, a power that the Empire of Japan was terribly afraid of. Background information even indicates Stalin persued war in Asia before turning his attention to Europe, so it is very likely the two countries battled each other over control over China. Not only would it have been foolish for the Japanese to attack the United States and European nations while the Soviet Union was becoming ever more aggressive, it would have been even less believeable that America would persue war on Japan, which was their best bet at preventing Soviet domination of Asia.
**** ** Nevertheless, Japan probably did attack Pearl Harbor sometime between Red Alert and Red Alert 2 just like the historical timeline, since the Arizona memorial is still there.
***** ** Arizona and Iwo Jima memorials /=/ Historical events happened!!!! They could've put the former up because-say- a Soviet submarine or pro-Communist Hawaiian terrorist destroyed the Arizona in this timeline.



*** What ''about'' them? The Black Hand are operating under Kane's orders. If Kane orders them to work alongside an army of cyborgs, while retaining their own command structure and troops, they'll do it.
**** The mantis is a soulless killing machine that the Black Hand added to their arsenal because they, like EA, probably realized that without it they'd be sitting ducks from the skies. So rather than use up the Brotherhood's Venom and Vertigo pilots in "soulless machines", they lock down the skies with these things. "If I can't fly, no one will" is the ideal they put in with the Mantis. Or maybe they recognize that using the droid is better than losing. As for the Marked of Kane, remember that the Brotherhood is prone to using both highly experimental technology and older tech. The Black Hand and the Marked of Kane are on two opposite ends of the Brotherhood's spectrum. If they met each other without Kane to keep them in line, they'd probably call each other heretics going against Kane's will and end up destroying each other.

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*** ** What ''about'' them? The Black Hand are operating under Kane's orders. If Kane orders them to work alongside an army of cyborgs, while retaining their own command structure and troops, they'll do it.
**** ** The mantis is a soulless killing machine that the Black Hand added to their arsenal because they, like EA, probably realized that without it they'd be sitting ducks from the skies. So rather than use up the Brotherhood's Venom and Vertigo pilots in "soulless machines", they lock down the skies with these things. "If I can't fly, no one will" is the ideal they put in with the Mantis. Or maybe they recognize that using the droid is better than losing. As for the Marked of Kane, remember that the Brotherhood is prone to using both highly experimental technology and older tech. The Black Hand and the Marked of Kane are on two opposite ends of the Brotherhood's spectrum. If they met each other without Kane to keep them in line, they'd probably call each other heretics going against Kane's will and end up destroying each other.



*** When you can build twin-barrel tanks the size of houses and harness weaponised Tesla technology, it's probably safe to say that a big colour-TV really isn't much of a feat to accomplish.
**** Bet they still haven't manged to invent toilet paper yet though.

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*** ** When you can build twin-barrel tanks the size of houses and harness weaponised Tesla technology, it's probably safe to say that a big colour-TV really isn't much of a feat to accomplish.
**** ** Bet they still haven't manged to invent toilet paper yet though.



*** Said briefing has CABAL talking directly to Slavik. Hence the 'you'. But that's somewhat irrelevant, as Slavik is referred to as a Commander a couple of times. And the few times he does look at the camera, he is addressing CABAL. I really don't feel like going through the GDI briefings, so I'll take your word for those. Fair enough.
*** I'd assumed that the player character in TS was actually CABAL. There are some units in the campaign (the Nod commander rescued from Hassan's forces in one of the optional missions, and Slavik when he's captured by GDI) who say "Yes, CABAL?" when you click on them. Also, at several points in the cutscenes, you get a CABAL's-eye view of Slavik.
**** Ah, but CABAL directly addresses ''you'' in the mission briefs. He even foreshadows his Firestorm agenda by mentioning how something will advance his plans, but cutting himself short.
**** Easiest explanation? CABAL's a hive-mind. You are CABAL, while also being a drone/underling of CABAL. Hence why people call you CABAL and talk directly to you/CABAL. The reason why the mission where Slavik was captured refers to 'you' is because you're relaying CABAL's orders to him.
**** I'd rather go with that Slavik controls CABAL who, in turn, directly controls and communicates with the Nod forces. As a matter of fact, the armed worshippers of Nod are more familiar with CABAL than the man who's currently behind it. Also, given the series's crush on EasyCommunication, it would be hell a lot easier to make the almighty AI do the dirty job on leading your troopers on target than leading them all by yourself; that is, all you need to do is just give an order to your human resources through CABAL which will process it on the way.[[note]]Not sure how such a scheme would work in ''Tiberian Dawn'', though...[[/note]]

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*** ** Said briefing has CABAL talking directly to Slavik. Hence the 'you'. But that's somewhat irrelevant, as Slavik is referred to as a Commander a couple of times. And the few times he does look at the camera, he is addressing CABAL. I really don't feel like going through the GDI briefings, so I'll take your word for those. Fair enough.
*** ** I'd assumed that the player character in TS was actually CABAL. There are some units in the campaign (the Nod commander rescued from Hassan's forces in one of the optional missions, and Slavik when he's captured by GDI) who say "Yes, CABAL?" when you click on them. Also, at several points in the cutscenes, you get a CABAL's-eye view of Slavik.
**** ** Ah, but CABAL directly addresses ''you'' in the mission briefs. He even foreshadows his Firestorm agenda by mentioning how something will advance his plans, but cutting himself short.
**** ** Easiest explanation? CABAL's a hive-mind. You are CABAL, while also being a drone/underling of CABAL. Hence why people call you CABAL and talk directly to you/CABAL. The reason why the mission where Slavik was captured refers to 'you' is because you're relaying CABAL's orders to him.
**** ** I'd rather go with that Slavik controls CABAL who, in turn, directly controls and communicates with the Nod forces. As a matter of fact, the armed worshippers of Nod are more familiar with CABAL than the man who's currently behind it. Also, given the series's crush on EasyCommunication, it would be hell a lot easier to make the almighty AI do the dirty job on leading your troopers on target than leading them all by yourself; that is, all you need to do is just give an order to your human resources through CABAL which will process it on the way.[[note]]Not sure how such a scheme would work in ''Tiberian Dawn'', though...[[/note]]



*** Except that Einstein invented the Chronosphere after WWII, considering he specifically aimed for Hitler. He wouldn't do so if he didn't know what Hitler would do. Even if he did go back to 1925 to kill Hitler, his going back to do that would be erased, since he never had the chance to invent the Chronosphere, having been killed in 1927, well before WWII.
**** Alternate timelines.
**** Einstein A uses Time Machine to go back and remove Hitler, his time is unchanged but it splits off a new timeline where there's no Hitler and is Red Alert 1, apparently because the timeline was changed Einstein B created the Chronosphere instead of Time Machine and uses a different form of Time Travel, leading to the series as it is. Somehow [=FutureTech=] has managed to invent a slightly different form of everything Einstein originally invented and new "Cryo" technology(but not the Weather Machine and Nuclear Weapons).

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*** ** Except that Einstein invented the Chronosphere after WWII, considering he specifically aimed for Hitler. He wouldn't do so if he didn't know what Hitler would do. Even if he did go back to 1925 to kill Hitler, his going back to do that would be erased, since he never had the chance to invent the Chronosphere, having been killed in 1927, well before WWII.
**** ** Alternate timelines.
**** ** Einstein A uses Time Machine to go back and remove Hitler, his time is unchanged but it splits off a new timeline where there's no Hitler and is Red Alert 1, apparently because the timeline was changed Einstein B created the Chronosphere instead of Time Machine and uses a different form of Time Travel, leading to the series as it is. Somehow [=FutureTech=] has managed to invent a slightly different form of everything Einstein originally invented and new "Cryo" technology(but not the Weather Machine and Nuclear Weapons).



*** The events of the first Red Alert clearly ''didn't'' happen, since both Einstein and nukes (separately, nukes being a Soviet development in the Red Alert-verse -- Red Alert 3's handling of nukes is yet another of Red Alert 3's offenses against common sense) play key parts in the Allied campaign (and the Soviet obviously didn't happen, since Britain isn't under Soviet occupation). ''However'', Von Esling is liable to still have risen to become one of the Allies' main military commanders. Presumably the German led the Allies in a war that was drastically different yet in some ways similar to the one in Red Alert 1.

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*** ** The events of the first Red Alert clearly ''didn't'' happen, since both Einstein and nukes (separately, nukes being a Soviet development in the Red Alert-verse -- Red Alert 3's handling of nukes is yet another of Red Alert 3's offenses against common sense) play key parts in the Allied campaign (and the Soviet obviously didn't happen, since Britain isn't under Soviet occupation). ''However'', Von Esling is liable to still have risen to become one of the Allies' main military commanders. Presumably the German led the Allies in a war that was drastically different yet in some ways similar to the one in Red Alert 1.



*** Not entirely sure but I think Tanya Adams from [=RA1=] is a mercenary working for the Allies and [=RA2=] Tanya is a completely different person who is part of the US special forces, possibly with Tanya actually being a codename to honour Tanya Adams.

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*** ** Not entirely sure but I think Tanya Adams from [=RA1=] is a mercenary working for the Allies and [=RA2=] Tanya is a completely different person who is part of the US special forces, possibly with Tanya actually being a codename to honour Tanya Adams.



*** Aye, I know that, but what bugs me is that during Kane's Wrath it's said all of Kane's commanders were murdered - during a time that's set after the events of [=CnC3=]. If the player character was killed off as well, it seems a bit anticlimactic.
*** I don't recall that, what mission was it on?
*** It's the briefing of the mission where you first play around with cyborgs, IIRC. Certainly after that point. It's the post-[=CnC3=] campaign.
*** "Nods generals are dead. Their militias defeated" "but not all is as it seems". A two line description of a generic briefing compared to Kane talking about the masses dying but the chosen few(aka everyone around the tower) going with him to wherever, leads me to believe that the inner circle guys including the TW general are still around just inactive and playing dead along with Kane to fool GDI.
*** Didn't he say that GDI wiped Nod from the face of planet almost completely? It makes sense, because the did get suckered by 2 nod re-emergences.

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*** ** Aye, I know that, but what bugs me is that during Kane's Wrath it's said all of Kane's commanders were murdered - during a time that's set after the events of [=CnC3=]. If the player character was killed off as well, it seems a bit anticlimactic.
*** ** I don't recall that, what mission was it on?
*** ** It's the briefing of the mission where you first play around with cyborgs, IIRC. Certainly after that point. It's the post-[=CnC3=] campaign.
*** ** "Nods generals are dead. Their militias defeated" "but not all is as it seems". A two line description of a generic briefing compared to Kane talking about the masses dying but the chosen few(aka everyone around the tower) going with him to wherever, leads me to believe that the inner circle guys including the TW general are still around just inactive and playing dead along with Kane to fool GDI.
*** ** Didn't he say that GDI wiped Nod from the face of planet almost completely? It makes sense, because the did get suckered by 2 nod re-emergences.



*** Iceland gaining land? The Cold War map uses a Mercator projection while the 1938 map uses an Albers projection - I'm pretty sure this is the difference you're talking about.
*** I don't know about that stuff so it's probably it, but it looks like the lower right of the island has mass added in the Cold war map while the little islands between Iceland and the UK look smaller in it.
*** Yes, that's definitely a result of the difference between the two projections. Keep in mind that it's suprisingly hard to make a completely accurate ''flat'' map of a ''round'' surface, and that using different projections can therefore result in slightly different maps.

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*** ** Iceland gaining land? The Cold War map uses a Mercator projection while the 1938 map uses an Albers projection - I'm pretty sure this is the difference you're talking about.
*** ** I don't know about that stuff so it's probably it, but it looks like the lower right of the island has mass added in the Cold war map while the little islands between Iceland and the UK look smaller in it.
*** ** Yes, that's definitely a result of the difference between the two projections. Keep in mind that it's suprisingly hard to make a completely accurate ''flat'' map of a ''round'' surface, and that using different projections can therefore result in slightly different maps.



*** I can't think of any reason, guess they just screwed up.
*** To add to this, current borders of Poland (seen on the in-game map) are a result of FOUR separate arrangements which took part during UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo - (1) The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, which established the German and Soviet zones in occupied Poland (2) an addendum to R-M, which gave Volhynia and Lvov area to Germans (3) Agreement between Roosevelt and Stalin, incorporating the entire Soviet occupation zone AND Volhynia-Lvov into the USSR (4) Final arrangements at the end of the war, giving Masuria, Pomerania and Silesia to the newly-founded communist state in Poland.
*** Also, it should be remembered that if the Nazi threat was to be eliminated, the entire Europe would be ready to handle an expected Soviet invasion. Polish army would be mobilized on the eastern border, very likely with additional support from other European countries - and the USSR had already lost one war against Poland 18 years earlier (which could conceivably be less in-game, I don't remember when [=RA1=] starts). AND we have to remember that the Soviets invaded Poland 2 weeks after Germany only because they were tied in a war with expansionist Japan. But then again, the series seems to have eliminated fascism from Europe, which was devised in response to communism... Well, to prevent my head from exploding thinking of all illogical events in the RA universe, I'll just [[MST3KMantra roll with it]].
**** Alright, here's my grand theory regarding the RA universe prior to the outbreak of their WWII for events to fall into place for the map we see in the game. With Hitler dead, Germany continues its chaotic internal bloodbaths, but without Hitler to emerge as a charismatic leader and decisively break the stalemate to unite Germany, the factions fight themselves more or less to a state of exhaustion, leaving either the weak, right-wing Weimar regime in power or a fairly unambitious military regime that is satisfied to try and expand East and into Austria in minor ways while leaving the West to be. The Japanese probably probe into China like they did historically, but they stop when the Soviet Union starts to arise as a truly powerful threat. The Depression happens and plays out like it did historically before being eliminated early due to military orders from reaction to the USSR. The true point at which their history diverges considerably from ours is in the 30's or so, when Stalin- having used the peace and quiet of the 20's and 30's to annihilate the opposition and the incompetents even more thoroughly than he had- launches an invasion of Finland and the Baltic states (doesn't really matter which one comes first, with Finland being the catalyst that brings the Red Army into the modern world after initial defeats like what happened historically before being eventually crushed by the sheer weight of numbers. The West and the League of Nations make threats but don't do much, and this spurs Stalin to further infiltrate the Western governments and to begin trying to install a likeminded regime in Spain and Portugal at least(like what we saw with the Popular Front, only vastly, vastly more so). Eventually, he gets bold enough that he launches a general offensive against Poland and stomps them flat (most likely using their superior armor and airpower to decide the matter). Driven in large part by sheer momentum and by some German threats at retaliation, they invade both the German enclave of East Prussia and Eastern mainland Germany, totally conquering the former and driving the later back until the skeleton German army- bolstered by reinforcements and Western support- manage to stop the overextended Red Army on a defensive line backed by the natural defenses of the Oder and Lusatian Niesse River. Eventually, the fighting stops, but the Soviets remain in control of Poland, establishing a Soviet puppet like they did IRL, and allowing it to annex the captured German territory (save for Koningsberg, or Kalingrad, which they annex themselves) to avoid notice of them annexing Poland's old Eastern frontier, like they did IRL. This is a massive shock to the rest of the world, which has largely been mothballing their military to feed domestic need, and it is only heightened when Stalin later attacks Romania using its Moldavian territories as a casus belli, and likewise gains a decisive victory. Hungary intervenes for whatever reason (either as part of an unlikely alliance forged out of desperation or in a freelance attempt to gain Transylvania back) and is promptly crushed and occupied for its troubles. The results of this are threefold: The rest of the world puts their mutual "issues" on the backburner very, VERY rapidly. The West drops all Versailles restrictions on Germany and gives aid for a military buildup, the Japanese, the KMT, and the West come to an agreement that they hold off on killing each other while Stalin remains a threat, and the US is drawn in to the Allies in one form or another (either as a full member or as a quasi-ally, like FDR was from 1939-41). 2. With the League of Nations utterly humiliated and pro-Soviet forces at work pretty much throughout the non-Communist world (as they were IRL), the military begins to come to prominence in European politics, either explicitly taking over or being allowed a very, VERY loose leash by the civilian governments as one of the few reliable anti-Soviet power blocs they have available. C. The Depression dies early, with the sudden outpouring of demand for war material ending the Western European depressions on time and the American one far ahead of time. The sum of this is that a "Cold War" emerges between the Soviets and pretty much everyone else, but with open war being avoided by minor "brushfire" ones, like the Spanish Civil War (which sees whatever pro-Soviet faction there is get easily crushed by the anti-Soviet one, with the aid of the Allies, and with the Soviet navy sent to help it being torpedoed by the British, French, Italians, Greeks, and Germans, like the Italians and Germans did historically). Decolonization is stopped more or less in its tracks, though with the potential for a few exceptions. The Golden Square in Iraq- having not attempted a rising in support of the Nazi war machine in 1941 and been wiped out in retaliation- launches a war against the Royalist government of Iraq with Soviet support, and succeeds once British (and other Allied) intervention is stopped by Soviet threats. Finally, the Soviets Communists within Czechoslovakia either attempt a rising in Slovakia or a coup in Prague, which leads to fighting between the (primarily Czech) Loyalists and the (primarily Slovak) Communists, which eventually ends in stalemate, with Slovakia being partitioned ALA Korea into a Communist Slovakia and an Allied Czech nation. For years afterward, these minimalist skirmishes occur, with the Soviets attempting to inspire Communist revolt in Allied territories, and the Allies checking them and inspiring guerilla warfare in the Soviet occupied areas, until one day Stalin judges the time is ripe and orders the military to move against the German, Czech, and Austrian border forts while simultaneously dispatching an enlarged Pacific fleet to strike against the USN and RN bases of Pearl Harbor, Manila, and Singapore while the Soviets and their Far Eastern Allies (the Mongolians officially and the CCP unofficially) invade KMT-dominated China and potentially the Japanese protectorates in Korea and (possibly) Manchuria, with the KMT collapsing within about a year due to widespread Communist support, the unpopularity of Chiang Kai-Shek, and the perception of the Soviets as "liberators" from Western imperialism. This allows the Soviet army to redeploy to Europe. Thus starts the events in the game.
**** Western Europe is heavily implied to be an (albeit liberal) anti-communist military dictatorship during [=RA1=]. This would make fascism superfluous as an ideological movement.
***** Not really. For one, Fascism was a unique ideology, one that a Liberal/Enlightened junta like the Allies are in RA's WWII would likely not be able to harness in any great numbers. Simply put, I believe that Fascism as we know it split in the RA universe, with the Left wing (such as Rohm and co) joining the Soviets and the Right wing grudgingly joining the allies.

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*** ** I can't think of any reason, guess they just screwed up.
*** ** To add to this, current borders of Poland (seen on the in-game map) are a result of FOUR separate arrangements which took part during UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo - (1) The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, which established the German and Soviet zones in occupied Poland (2) an addendum to R-M, which gave Volhynia and Lvov area to Germans (3) Agreement between Roosevelt and Stalin, incorporating the entire Soviet occupation zone AND Volhynia-Lvov into the USSR (4) Final arrangements at the end of the war, giving Masuria, Pomerania and Silesia to the newly-founded communist state in Poland.
*** ** Also, it should be remembered that if the Nazi threat was to be eliminated, the entire Europe would be ready to handle an expected Soviet invasion. Polish army would be mobilized on the eastern border, very likely with additional support from other European countries - and the USSR had already lost one war against Poland 18 years earlier (which could conceivably be less in-game, I don't remember when [=RA1=] starts). AND we have to remember that the Soviets invaded Poland 2 weeks after Germany only because they were tied in a war with expansionist Japan. But then again, the series seems to have eliminated fascism from Europe, which was devised in response to communism... Well, to prevent my head from exploding thinking of all illogical events in the RA universe, I'll just [[MST3KMantra roll with it]].
**** ** Alright, here's my grand theory regarding the RA universe prior to the outbreak of their WWII for events to fall into place for the map we see in the game. With Hitler dead, Germany continues its chaotic internal bloodbaths, but without Hitler to emerge as a charismatic leader and decisively break the stalemate to unite Germany, the factions fight themselves more or less to a state of exhaustion, leaving either the weak, right-wing Weimar regime in power or a fairly unambitious military regime that is satisfied to try and expand East and into Austria in minor ways while leaving the West to be. The Japanese probably probe into China like they did historically, but they stop when the Soviet Union starts to arise as a truly powerful threat. The Depression happens and plays out like it did historically before being eliminated early due to military orders from reaction to the USSR. The true point at which their history diverges considerably from ours is in the 30's or so, when Stalin- having used the peace and quiet of the 20's and 30's to annihilate the opposition and the incompetents even more thoroughly than he had- launches an invasion of Finland and the Baltic states (doesn't really matter which one comes first, with Finland being the catalyst that brings the Red Army into the modern world after initial defeats like what happened historically before being eventually crushed by the sheer weight of numbers. The West and the League of Nations make threats but don't do much, and this spurs Stalin to further infiltrate the Western governments and to begin trying to install a likeminded regime in Spain and Portugal at least(like what we saw with the Popular Front, only vastly, vastly more so). Eventually, he gets bold enough that he launches a general offensive against Poland and stomps them flat (most likely using their superior armor and airpower to decide the matter). Driven in large part by sheer momentum and by some German threats at retaliation, they invade both the German enclave of East Prussia and Eastern mainland Germany, totally conquering the former and driving the later back until the skeleton German army- bolstered by reinforcements and Western support- manage to stop the overextended Red Army on a defensive line backed by the natural defenses of the Oder and Lusatian Niesse River. Eventually, the fighting stops, but the Soviets remain in control of Poland, establishing a Soviet puppet like they did IRL, and allowing it to annex the captured German territory (save for Koningsberg, or Kalingrad, which they annex themselves) to avoid notice of them annexing Poland's old Eastern frontier, like they did IRL. This is a massive shock to the rest of the world, which has largely been mothballing their military to feed domestic need, and it is only heightened when Stalin later attacks Romania using its Moldavian territories as a casus belli, and likewise gains a decisive victory. Hungary intervenes for whatever reason (either as part of an unlikely alliance forged out of desperation or in a freelance attempt to gain Transylvania back) and is promptly crushed and occupied for its troubles. The results of this are threefold: The rest of the world puts their mutual "issues" on the backburner very, VERY rapidly. The West drops all Versailles restrictions on Germany and gives aid for a military buildup, the Japanese, the KMT, and the West come to an agreement that they hold off on killing each other while Stalin remains a threat, and the US is drawn in to the Allies in one form or another (either as a full member or as a quasi-ally, like FDR was from 1939-41). 2. With the League of Nations utterly humiliated and pro-Soviet forces at work pretty much throughout the non-Communist world (as they were IRL), the military begins to come to prominence in European politics, either explicitly taking over or being allowed a very, VERY loose leash by the civilian governments as one of the few reliable anti-Soviet power blocs they have available. C. The Depression dies early, with the sudden outpouring of demand for war material ending the Western European depressions on time and the American one far ahead of time. The sum of this is that a "Cold War" emerges between the Soviets and pretty much everyone else, but with open war being avoided by minor "brushfire" ones, like the Spanish Civil War (which sees whatever pro-Soviet faction there is get easily crushed by the anti-Soviet one, with the aid of the Allies, and with the Soviet navy sent to help it being torpedoed by the British, French, Italians, Greeks, and Germans, like the Italians and Germans did historically). Decolonization is stopped more or less in its tracks, though with the potential for a few exceptions. The Golden Square in Iraq- having not attempted a rising in support of the Nazi war machine in 1941 and been wiped out in retaliation- launches a war against the Royalist government of Iraq with Soviet support, and succeeds once British (and other Allied) intervention is stopped by Soviet threats. Finally, the Soviets Communists within Czechoslovakia either attempt a rising in Slovakia or a coup in Prague, which leads to fighting between the (primarily Czech) Loyalists and the (primarily Slovak) Communists, which eventually ends in stalemate, with Slovakia being partitioned ALA Korea into a Communist Slovakia and an Allied Czech nation. For years afterward, these minimalist skirmishes occur, with the Soviets attempting to inspire Communist revolt in Allied territories, and the Allies checking them and inspiring guerilla warfare in the Soviet occupied areas, until one day Stalin judges the time is ripe and orders the military to move against the German, Czech, and Austrian border forts while simultaneously dispatching an enlarged Pacific fleet to strike against the USN and RN bases of Pearl Harbor, Manila, and Singapore while the Soviets and their Far Eastern Allies (the Mongolians officially and the CCP unofficially) invade KMT-dominated China and potentially the Japanese protectorates in Korea and (possibly) Manchuria, with the KMT collapsing within about a year due to widespread Communist support, the unpopularity of Chiang Kai-Shek, and the perception of the Soviets as "liberators" from Western imperialism. This allows the Soviet army to redeploy to Europe. Thus starts the events in the game.
**** ** Western Europe is heavily implied to be an (albeit liberal) anti-communist military dictatorship during [=RA1=]. This would make fascism superfluous as an ideological movement.
***** ** Not really. For one, Fascism was a unique ideology, one that a Liberal/Enlightened junta like the Allies are in RA's WWII would likely not be able to harness in any great numbers. Simply put, I believe that Fascism as we know it split in the RA universe, with the Left wing (such as Rohm and co) joining the Soviets and the Right wing grudgingly joining the allies.



*** Plus, they probably want to interrogate Yuri about what other nasty secrets he's got hidden around the globe. Maybe find out a bit about his tech, see if the effects of the Dominator or the Genetic Mutator can be reversed.

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*** ** Plus, they probably want to interrogate Yuri about what other nasty secrets he's got hidden around the globe. Maybe find out a bit about his tech, see if the effects of the Dominator or the Genetic Mutator can be reversed.



*** Even quite likely, given that the Soviet Union have much bigger resources in the RA timeline plus the lack of nazi tiger tanks/panzers to demonstrate to them the futility of building overly complicated monster tanks.

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*** ** Even quite likely, given that the Soviet Union have much bigger resources in the RA timeline plus the lack of nazi tiger tanks/panzers to demonstrate to them the futility of building overly complicated monster tanks.



*** Agreed with the above. It is very, VERY obvious that Versailles and the League of Nations and the other restrictions upon the German military went out the window VERY quickly shortly after the Soviet steamroller got rolling again under Stalin. That, and the extreme likelyhood (judging from the borders of Poland encompassing East Prussia and the Oder-Niesse Line) that the Soviets carried out a limited war of aggression against Germany before Western retaliation stopped their advance at the river frontlines. That would have been VERY much the key to the Western Allies that it would be absolutely idiotic to NOT remove the restrictions from Versailles, given not merely the mutual Soviet threat, but the likely backlash against the Western Allies not allowing the Germans to arm after a clear case of aggression by the Soviets. That, and the Western Allies (who would still have been the core of the Allies- the inclusion of Germany, Spain, Portugal, and Austria nonwithstanding) probably had already identified Von Esling beforehand, most likely if he fit a model of what they were looking for in a German leader (WWI experience, moderate- or at least doesn't feel like challenging the West to a rematch-, and well liked). They would have been fools to not use him.
*** Also, remember in that in real world history, much of Nazi Germany's military build up wasn't technically in violation of the Treaty of Versailles. And even though Hitler is erased, all of the other people who played a role in building Nazi Germany's military capabilities were still very much alive and kicking, albeit presumably less evil than their counterparts in the original timeline. It's entirely conceivable that many of them still managed to get into their positions of power in [=RA1=]'s timeline and similarly circumvent the treaty, with the possible justifications of self-defense and economic recovery.

to:

*** ** Agreed with the above. It is very, VERY obvious that Versailles and the League of Nations and the other restrictions upon the German military went out the window VERY quickly shortly after the Soviet steamroller got rolling again under Stalin. That, and the extreme likelyhood (judging from the borders of Poland encompassing East Prussia and the Oder-Niesse Line) that the Soviets carried out a limited war of aggression against Germany before Western retaliation stopped their advance at the river frontlines. That would have been VERY much the key to the Western Allies that it would be absolutely idiotic to NOT remove the restrictions from Versailles, given not merely the mutual Soviet threat, but the likely backlash against the Western Allies not allowing the Germans to arm after a clear case of aggression by the Soviets. That, and the Western Allies (who would still have been the core of the Allies- the inclusion of Germany, Spain, Portugal, and Austria nonwithstanding) probably had already identified Von Esling beforehand, most likely if he fit a model of what they were looking for in a German leader (WWI experience, moderate- or at least doesn't feel like challenging the West to a rematch-, and well liked). They would have been fools to not use him.
*** ** Also, remember in that in real world history, much of Nazi Germany's military build up wasn't technically in violation of the Treaty of Versailles. And even though Hitler is erased, all of the other people who played a role in building Nazi Germany's military capabilities were still very much alive and kicking, albeit presumably less evil than their counterparts in the original timeline. It's entirely conceivable that many of them still managed to get into their positions of power in [=RA1=]'s timeline and similarly circumvent the treaty, with the possible justifications of self-defense and economic recovery.



*** And when did GDI capture all their stuff? At that point Nod controls huge parts of the entire world and their nuclear facilities are probably located all over the world, how would GDI capture them just like this? And since they have the capability, they should have some nukes stored and ready to use, why not take these instead? In the missions afterwards you have nukes at your disposal, so they've got to come from somewhere.
**** It's mentioned ingame that Nod's [=WMD=]s were being kept in Africa; Act II of the GDI campaign has you destroying production facilities and launch sites in Egypt. Also, by Nod's Act IV, they were on the run; GDI had destroyed their HQ, remember? Anyways, remember the person sending you on the mission is Kilian, who didn't know all the details of Kane's plan, so it's possible that Nod ''had'' backup nukes, but she didn't know about them so she sent you to steal GDI's.
***** Nod having backup nukes that Killian didn't know about also explains why you can fire as many nuclear missiles as you like in the late-game missions, despite having stolen only three warheads from GDI.

to:

*** ** And when did GDI capture all their stuff? At that point Nod controls huge parts of the entire world and their nuclear facilities are probably located all over the world, how would GDI capture them just like this? And since they have the capability, they should have some nukes stored and ready to use, why not take these instead? In the missions afterwards you have nukes at your disposal, so they've got to come from somewhere.
**** ** It's mentioned ingame that Nod's [=WMD=]s were being kept in Africa; Act II of the GDI campaign has you destroying production facilities and launch sites in Egypt. Also, by Nod's Act IV, they were on the run; GDI had destroyed their HQ, remember? Anyways, remember the person sending you on the mission is Kilian, who didn't know all the details of Kane's plan, so it's possible that Nod ''had'' backup nukes, but she didn't know about them so she sent you to steal GDI's.
***** ** Nod having backup nukes that Killian didn't know about also explains why you can fire as many nuclear missiles as you like in the late-game missions, despite having stolen only three warheads from GDI.



*** How would the know they could fit GDI equipment on a Nod vehicle? It's not PlugNPlayTechnology.

to:

*** ** How would the know they could fit GDI equipment on a Nod vehicle? It's not PlugNPlayTechnology.



*** Even though we know what her face looks like from the artwork, and what she sounds like, and her entire backstory?

to:

*** ** Even though we know what her face looks like from the artwork, and what she sounds like, and her entire backstory?



*** Which is kinda stupid, considering that the whole point of LEGION is that he's not just an EVA unit or a program designed to nudge the Commander awake whenever his units start dying. LEGION is supposed to be the harbinger of Kane, his eternally loyal right hand and his greatest creation. Reducing him to the level of an ordinary EVA misses out on the whole point of LEGION and Kane's Wrath, suggesting that C&C4 is, in fact, so bad that it drags down the rest of the Tiberium franchise with it.

to:

*** ** Which is kinda stupid, considering that the whole point of LEGION is that he's not just an EVA unit or a program designed to nudge the Commander awake whenever his units start dying. LEGION is supposed to be the harbinger of Kane, his eternally loyal right hand and his greatest creation. Reducing him to the level of an ordinary EVA misses out on the whole point of LEGION and Kane's Wrath, suggesting that C&C4 is, in fact, so bad that it drags down the rest of the Tiberium franchise with it.



*** But they wouldn't need to, with Threshold 19 in place. That's why both Nod and the Scrin were so desperate to protect it in Tiberium Wars, it was a portal node, and offered a link back to the Scrin homeworld. A Scrin armada could use the tower as a means of invading Earth very quickly, they wouldn't need to travel normally.

to:

*** ** But they wouldn't need to, with Threshold 19 in place. That's why both Nod and the Scrin were so desperate to protect it in Tiberium Wars, it was a portal node, and offered a link back to the Scrin homeworld. A Scrin armada could use the tower as a means of invading Earth very quickly, they wouldn't need to travel normally.



*** That still doesn't excuse the fact that he seemingly ''tries'' to make things easier for the assassins out gunning for the implants. There is no reason for him to put the player character out in the open to give a speech like that after all the other implants have been killed. Indeed, the logical thing at this point would be to sequester the player character away in a secure bunker somewhere and give the speech himself. I think it's safe to just chalk this one up as a massive plot hole and call it a day.
*** You're talking about Kane's regenerative abilities, and the first thing that comes to mind is the "half my face gone" thing? [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome How about the time he]] [[NoOneCouldSurviveThat survived an]] '''[[KillSat Ion Cannon]]'''? Also, never played 4; why wouldn't Kane just make a remote to control the tower? Heck, maybe that was the ''point''. If the PC got killed, "Yay! Now he can't do [whatever]! Wait, what? How did he?!"
**** That half his face gone bit is '''referring''' to the time he took an Ion Cannon to the face. The Cannon is used to demolish structures...he walked it off. He gets shot several times and takes a massive spike of Tiberium in the gut...he's back in a couple years. You can't kill this guy!

to:

*** ** That still doesn't excuse the fact that he seemingly ''tries'' to make things easier for the assassins out gunning for the implants. There is no reason for him to put the player character out in the open to give a speech like that after all the other implants have been killed. Indeed, the logical thing at this point would be to sequester the player character away in a secure bunker somewhere and give the speech himself. I think it's safe to just chalk this one up as a massive plot hole and call it a day.
*** ** You're talking about Kane's regenerative abilities, and the first thing that comes to mind is the "half my face gone" thing? [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome How about the time he]] [[NoOneCouldSurviveThat survived an]] '''[[KillSat Ion Cannon]]'''? Also, never played 4; why wouldn't Kane just make a remote to control the tower? Heck, maybe that was the ''point''. If the PC got killed, "Yay! Now he can't do [whatever]! Wait, what? How did he?!"
**** ** That half his face gone bit is '''referring''' to the time he took an Ion Cannon to the face. The Cannon is used to demolish structures...he walked it off. He gets shot several times and takes a massive spike of Tiberium in the gut...he's back in a couple years. You can't kill this guy!



*** The AllInTheManual explanation for Tesla is that the NKVD broke into his office and carted off what must have been a few metric tons of material and documentation before Tesla got wise and called Western intelligence down to causterize that particular intelligence leak. As for the others, [[ChessMaster Kane.]]

to:

*** ** The AllInTheManual explanation for Tesla is that the NKVD broke into his office and carted off what must have been a few metric tons of material and documentation before Tesla got wise and called Western intelligence down to causterize that particular intelligence leak. As for the others, [[ChessMaster Kane.]]



*** Also the soviets have the scientist who invented the time machine and being from the original timeline he knows nukes are possible. Maybe he reinvented them.
**** I thought this was the canon explanation. They just re-invented nukes. It just took time to get the parts machined and the material refined.

to:

*** ** Also the soviets have the scientist who invented the time machine and being from the original timeline he knows nukes are possible. Maybe he reinvented them.
**** ** I thought this was the canon explanation. They just re-invented nukes. It just took time to get the parts machined and the material refined.



*** They must have expected the Americans to be stupider than wall paint and drive right into Baghdad instead of stopping so that they'd be caught in the bombardment. Think of it as the GLA aiming their shot. And missing.

to:

*** ** They must have expected the Americans to be stupider than wall paint and drive right into Baghdad instead of stopping so that they'd be caught in the bombardment. Think of it as the GLA aiming their shot. And missing.



*** One of them speaks British and the other could as well be [[CanadaEh Canadian]]. Even if they were, they might also have been volunteers from the US in the Foreign Legion or an Allied country's service.

to:

*** ** One of them speaks British and the other could as well be [[CanadaEh Canadian]]. Even if they were, they might also have been volunteers from the US in the Foreign Legion or an Allied country's service.



*** [[TooStupidToLive Only a fool would puppet an enemy nation that could destroy them]]. Between realpolitik, anti-communist sentiment and imperialist greed, there was no reason for the Allies not to tear the Soviet Union into the smallest pieces possible and purge it of all traces of Bolshevism.

to:

*** ** [[TooStupidToLive Only a fool would puppet an enemy nation that could destroy them]]. Between realpolitik, anti-communist sentiment and imperialist greed, there was no reason for the Allies not to tear the Soviet Union into the smallest pieces possible and purge it of all traces of Bolshevism.



*** It's implied that he didn't get the specs quite right until he set them off just before the jump back, so he probably had basic structures in various areas testing to see where he'd get the best results. In the original [=RA2=] timeline, the Allies had no idea what was going on because they'd been distracted by the invasion. The Soviets didn't know because they figured it was all part of the plan, and the Premier's shadowy advisor assured them it was all okay. All part of the plan. The Allies specifically targeting Yuri's work would have raised awareness amongst the Soviets and started bringing up uncomfortable questions.

to:

*** ** It's implied that he didn't get the specs quite right until he set them off just before the jump back, so he probably had basic structures in various areas testing to see where he'd get the best results. In the original [=RA2=] timeline, the Allies had no idea what was going on because they'd been distracted by the invasion. The Soviets didn't know because they figured it was all part of the plan, and the Premier's shadowy advisor assured them it was all okay. All part of the plan. The Allies specifically targeting Yuri's work would have raised awareness amongst the Soviets and started bringing up uncomfortable questions.
24th Aug '15 10:17:55 AM Discar
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New entries on the bottom.

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Empire of the Rising Sun]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Uprising Allies]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Black Hand and machines]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Black Hand evolution]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Kane's Wrath on Steam]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Kovaks and LEGION]]



* Is it just this troper or is there ''way'' too many [[{{Expy}} Expies]] in Red Alert 3? Sure, there are lots of new stuff, changes and functions for them, but if you're already familiar with RA 2 & Yuri's Revenge, you just happen to see lots of exports wherever you look, intended or not... Just take a look at the "Spectrum Tower", for example. No one can convince him that's not the Prism Tower from RA 2 & YR. And the "Super Reactor"!? Please, that's the "Nuclear Reactor" in a new and 3D model, right down to the 3 furnaces and the explosion that happens when you blow it up. And then the ''new'' Mirage Tank, which is basically the OLD Mirage Tank + RA 2 Prism Tank cannon... Not that he's complaining; he actually thinks these (changes) are, in a sense, quite clever.
** Asmodemus: It's the same tech but not, Einstein's removal leading to new designs and slightly different ways of accomplishing the same thing. If tanks weren't invented by whoever did that how long would it take for someone else to come up with a very similar but not quite the same concept?
** It makes sense that the allies are using many of the same units as they did in the previous game, with the exception of many of Einsteins inventions existing bascially unchanged. The Russians though sure came up with a lot of crazy stuff just because of the altered timeline, and unlike the allies they don't even have an Einstein Expy Corp to credit for.
** They do, actually; the Ministry of Experimental Science.
** Heck, most of the units in most of the games are exports from previous games. If you look at rules.ini you'll notice that most of the [=RA2=] units are actually referenced internally as the names of similar Tiberian Sun units.

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* Is it just this troper or is there ''way'' too many [[{{Expy}} Expies]] in Red
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Red
Alert 3? Sure, there are lots of new stuff, changes and functions for them, but if you're already familiar with RA 2 & Yuri's Revenge, you just happen to see lots of exports wherever you look, intended or not... Just take a look at the "Spectrum Tower", for example. No one can convince him that's not the Prism Tower from RA 2 & YR. And the "Super Reactor"!? Please, that's the "Nuclear Reactor" in a new and 3D model, right down to the 3 furnaces and the explosion that happens when you blow it up. And then the ''new'' Mirage Tank, which is basically the OLD Mirage Tank + RA 2 Prism Tank cannon... Not that he's complaining; he actually thinks these (changes) are, in a sense, quite clever.
** Asmodemus: It's the same tech but not, Einstein's removal leading to new designs and slightly different ways of accomplishing the same thing. If tanks weren't invented by whoever did that how long would it take for someone else to come up with a very similar but not quite the same concept?
** It makes sense that the allies are using many of the same units as they did in the previous game, with the exception of many of Einsteins inventions existing bascially unchanged. The Russians though sure came up with a lot of crazy stuff just because of the altered timeline, and unlike the allies they don't even have an Einstein Expy Corp to credit for.
** They do, actually; the Ministry of Experimental Science.
** Heck, most of the units in most of the games are exports from previous games. If you look at rules.ini you'll notice that most of the [=RA2=] units are actually referenced internally as the names of similar Tiberian Sun units.
timeline]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Slavik as PC]]



* Now, I haven't actually played RA 3, so I'm not sure if this was answered in-game, but... if the Soviets RetGone Einstein, wouldn't that mean he wasn't able to invent the Chronosphere and RetGone Hitler, meaning the Nazis came to power, and WWII happened, weakening the Soviets as Hitler's removal was the reason to their rise to power in the first place?

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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Paradox]]

* Now, I haven't actually played RA 3, so I'm not sure if this was answered in-game, but... if If the Soviets RetGone Einstein, wouldn't that mean he wasn't able to invent the Chronosphere and RetGone Hitler, meaning the Nazis came to power, and WWII happened, weakening the Soviets as Hitler's removal was the reason to their rise to power in the first place?




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Von Essling]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Rising Sun and Japan]]



** Almost certainly because there was a real Empire of Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan , many regard it as rather... unkind, and because I'm sure it would not please any in Japan who know there history and are proud of it. "Empire of the Rising Sun" is basically just a more marketable name. Same reason why the Iron Cross replaces the Swastika as the Nazi German symbol in many WWII video games.

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** Almost certainly because there was a real Empire of Japan http://en.[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan , Empire of Japan]], many regard it as rather... unkind, and because I'm sure it would not please any in Japan who know there history and are proud of it. "Empire of the Rising Sun" is basically just a more marketable name. Same reason why the Iron Cross replaces the Swastika as the Nazi German symbol in many WWII video games.games.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Orange Tiberium]]




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[[folder:Nod player from 3]]




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[[folder:Red Alert maps]]




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[[folder:Tanks and planes]]




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[[folder:Yuri smoker]]




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[[folder:Killing mind-controlled]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Controlling Pearl Harbor and Hawaii]]




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[[folder:Soviet tanks]]




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[[folder:German Allied commander]]




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[[folder:Time travelling]]



* Nod has the capability to build it's own nuclear weapons in every Tiberium game. So why are they stealing nukes from GDI in Tiberian Wars? Wouldn't it be just simpler to just build own nukes?

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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Stealing nukes]]

* Nod has the capability to build it's its own nuclear weapons in every Tiberium game. So why are they stealing nukes from GDI in Tiberian Wars? Wouldn't it be just simpler to just build own nukes?




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Avatar design]]



** Because Nod could be sure it would have its' own equipment much more readily than GDI's...As for the "kill the crew" thing, it's just to make it look badass.

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** Because Nod could be sure it would have its' its own equipment much more readily than GDI's...GDI's... As for the "kill the crew" thing, it's just to make it look badass.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Yuriko's appearance]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:LEGION's disappearance]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Scrin invasion]]



* Kanes plan to Ascend. He makes a scientist implant devices into five people that he could use to activate the Scrin Tower, but makes no real effort to protect them (seeing as Gideon easily kills four of them, mostly offscreen) or even pick people loyal to him (considering the Player Character is one, regardless of which side you choose). And why not get one of the implants for himself? And then there is his brilliant plan to protect the PC in the Nod Campaign by infusing him with his own DNA... then putting him in grave danger, mostly as a distraction.

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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Kane's plan in 4]]

* Kanes Kane's plan to Ascend. He makes a scientist implant devices into five people that he could use to activate the Scrin Tower, but makes no real effort to protect them (seeing as Gideon easily kills four of them, mostly offscreen) or even pick people loyal to him (considering the Player Character is one, regardless of which side you choose). And why not get one of the implants for himself? And then there is his brilliant plan to protect the PC in the Nod Campaign by infusing him with his own DNA... then putting him in grave danger, mostly as a distraction.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Stuck on Earth]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Soviet nukes]]



* Here's something that's bugged me for a while. In the "Great bear trap" mission in Red Alert 3 for the Allies where you go to Cuba, the mission depicts the Soviets as having their Kirov's carrying massive bombs which apparently could take out an entire city if you let one through. But at the same time, the fact that NO ONE has nukes anymore without Einstein in Red Alert 3 is mentioned in the opening cinematic. I guess they could be a Father of All Bombs, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_all_bombs but while that would doubtlessly do some real damage it wouldn't be able to destroy a city the way a nuke would, could it?

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[[/folder]]

[[folder:Great bear trap]]

* Here's something that's bugged me for a while. In the "Great bear trap" mission in Red Alert 3 for the Allies where you go to Cuba, the mission depicts the Soviets as having their Kirov's carrying massive bombs which apparently could take out an entire city if you let one through. But at the same time, the fact that NO ONE has nukes anymore without Einstein in Red Alert 3 is mentioned in the opening cinematic. I guess they could be a Father of All Bombs, http://en.[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_all_bombs Father of All Bombs]], but while that would doubtlessly do some real damage it wouldn't be able to destroy a city the way a nuke would, could it?




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Generals GLA]]



** The GLA is a sort of NGOSuperpower. Most of their equipment is Cold War-era tech (we'll ignore that their anti-tank weaponary is horribly out of date and useless against current gen tanks), which they've acquired through black market contacts and some kind of unspecified "backers" who fund the organization - they're the ones who supply the money you get with the General power that pays you per-kill . Most of the money they get appears to come through criminal enterprises (we'll ignored that that shouldn't give nearly enough money to do the stuff that the do). Also, the GLA has a pretty wide reach, as they've got elements active from Somalia through western China, and the numbers to operate openly in all of these areas. I believe the GLA is less a "terrorist" organization and more of an extremely powerful stateless organization that controls most of Central Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa.

to:

** The GLA is a sort of NGOSuperpower. Most of their equipment is Cold War-era tech (we'll ignore that their anti-tank weaponary is horribly out of date and useless against current gen tanks), which they've acquired through black market contacts and some kind of unspecified "backers" who fund the organization - they're the ones who supply the money you get with the General power that pays you per-kill .per-kill. Most of the money they get appears to come through criminal enterprises (we'll ignored that that shouldn't give nearly enough money to do the stuff that the do). Also, the GLA has a pretty wide reach, as they've got elements active from Somalia through western China, and the numbers to operate openly in all of these areas. I believe the GLA is less a "terrorist" organization and more of an extremely powerful stateless organization that controls most of Central Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Particle Cannon satellite]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Generals finale]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mortimer's cult]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:SCUD Storm]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Red Alert 2 USA]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Soviets in Red Alert 2]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Three Gorges dam]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Dominators]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Finale level Amsterdam]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Battlemaster tank]]



* Are the helicopter sprites from Red Alert 1 mixed up? The Longbow, [[AKA47 presumably the Apache Longbow]], has a more rounded appearance in game with round cockpit dome, whereas the Soviet Hind helicopter uses a more angular looking sprite and cockpit glass.

to:


[[/folder]]

[[folder:Helicopters]]

* Are the helicopter sprites from Red Alert 1 mixed up? The Longbow, [[AKA47 presumably the Apache Longbow]], has a more rounded appearance in game with round cockpit dome, whereas the Soviet Hind helicopter uses a more angular looking sprite and cockpit glass.glass.

[[/folder]]
15th Aug '15 5:12:58 AM RedShocktrooper
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Added DiffLines:

** Nod is prone to infighting even when Kane's around let alone when he isn't. Since the Avatar doesn't have to actually grab a flamethrower or what have you off a vehicle you own - it just has to be a Nod vehicle - it was probably designed on some level with the knowledge that [[WeAreStrugglingTogether Nod isn't particularly unified in any sense beyond hating GDI]].
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