| 1 | New entries on the bottom. |
| 2 | |
| 3 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 4 | |
| 5 | '''Tiberian series''' |
| 6 | [[folder:Black Hand and machines]] |
| 7 | |
| 8 | * The supplemental materials for ''Kane's Wrath'' say that the Black Hand abstains from using "soulless machines". What's the Mantis supposed to be, then? |
| 9 | ** The Black Hand don't have a problem using a "soulless machine" if it is blessed by a Black Hand abbot before battle. I figure the Mantis drones get the same treatment. |
| 10 | ** Maybe they see it as less of a "soulless machine" and more of a remote control gun. |
| 11 | ** So what about the Marked of Kane? On the last mission in the KW campaign, [[spoiler:when there's about 5 minutes left on the Tacitus destabilization timer, you get a Black Hand MCV. You start the mission as the Marked of Kane.]] |
| 12 | ** What ''about'' them? The Black Hand are operating under Kane's orders. If Kane orders them to work alongside an army of cyborgs, while retaining their own command structure and troops, they'll do it. |
| 13 | ** The mantis is a soulless killing machine that the Black Hand added to their arsenal because they, like EA, probably realized that without it they'd be sitting ducks from the skies. So rather than use up the Brotherhood's Venom and Vertigo pilots in "soulless machines", they lock down the skies with these things. "If I can't fly, no one will" is the ideal they put in with the Mantis. Or maybe they recognize that using the droid is better than losing. As for the Marked of Kane, remember that the Brotherhood is prone to using both highly experimental technology and older tech. The Black Hand and the Marked of Kane are on two opposite ends of the Brotherhood's spectrum. If they met each other without Kane to keep them in line, they'd probably call each other heretics going against Kane's will and end up destroying each other. |
| 14 | ** I don't think it's soulless machines they're against as much as Cyborgs. They do still have drones up the wazoo just like every other base in the game to repair their vehicles. The Mantis isn't a cyborg, so it's pretty ok with them. |
| 15 | |
| 16 | [[/folder]] |
| 17 | |
| 18 | [[folder:Black Hand evolution]] |
| 19 | |
| 20 | * Based on the previous, why did the Black Hand go from being an elite guard of assassins to a worship/purifying/etc. group. (From Renegade to KW) |
| 21 | ** Black Hand were always elite, fanatical soldiers. The Renegade Black hand, for example, were primarily heavily-armored soldiers with missile launchers and laser weaponry. They shifted from being assassins and elite guards to a regular army under Slavik. |
| 22 | ** The Black Hand were originally assassins and guards, but as Nod gained more of a religious aspect, the Black Hand turned into a sort of order of WarriorMonks as the world had to deal with Tiberium in a more in-your-face way. Remember, Renegade was the First Tiberium War. In Tiberian Sun, Slavik took them out of the shadows and expanded their numbers and their role in the Brotherhood. It was only after Kane's second on-screen death, when the Brotherhood fractured, that they became a full-on army and faction of their own instead of just heavy infantry and special ops forces. |
| 23 | |
| 24 | [[/folder]] |
| 25 | |
| 26 | [[folder:Kane's Wrath on Steam]] |
| 27 | |
| 28 | * Why does ''Kane's Wrath'' require ''Tiberium Wars'' to play on Platform/{{Steam}} if ''Kane's Wrath'' was a stand-alone expansion? |
| 29 | ** It was never stand alone to begin with for computer gamers, it's a similar case with how Red Alert's Playstation port and the port of its expansion packs are independent games. I can confirm this as I own an old copy of both Tiberium Wars and Kane's Wrath, the latter of which I actually pre-ordered. |
| 30 | |
| 31 | [[/folder]] |
| 32 | |
| 33 | [[folder:Kovacs and LEGION]] |
| 34 | |
| 35 | * Who thought it was a good idea to put Alexa Kovacs on the LEGION project? [[spoiler:Given that CABAL was responsible for the death of her family, having her develop a system based on it was obviously a bad idea.]] |
| 36 | ** Talent, apparently. If she's as good with AI technology as is indicated, and as faithful to the cause as she appears to be, it wouldn't be surprising that she'd get the job, especially considering she's relatively high-ranking in Nod and has Kane's trust. |
| 37 | ** It's implied that the truth about the death of her family wasn't well-known, as the official story was that mutants killed her parents. Between her sheer skill with cybernetics and AI and her religious dedication to Nod got her moving up the ranks. She was apparently vital to the project producing results, but it doesn't seem like she knew LEGION was based on CABAL until partway through the Wrath of Kane campaign. |
| 38 | |
| 39 | [[/folder]] |
| 40 | |
| 41 | [[folder:Slavik as PC]] |
| 42 | |
| 43 | * It consistently bugs me that people say that Slavik is the PC in Tiberian Sun. There's no evidence for this in the manuals or in the game. On the other hand, we have a history of not showing the commander - neither RA nor C&C gave the commander a face or a name -; Slavik appears as a unit in the game; and he looks directly at the camera to give the player orders. So the story follows from his decisions; that makes him equivalent to Seth, only less dead. [[spoiler: Not]]. So my question is, basically, where did this come from, and why is it so prelavent? |
| 44 | ** One specific mission involves Slavik being captured. The subsequent mission briefing states quite explicitly that "you have been captured." At no point during Tiberian Sun does Slavik actually look at the camera and speak to the player - that is reserved specifically for Firestorm. No one in Tiberan Sun ever issues orders to an anonymous commander like they do in any other games - not [=McNiel=], not Slavik, not Kane, nobody. |
| 45 | ** Said briefing has CABAL talking directly to Slavik. Hence the 'you'. But that's somewhat irrelevant, as Slavik is referred to as a Commander a couple of times. And the few times he does look at the camera, he is addressing CABAL. I really don't feel like going through the GDI briefings, so I'll take your word for those. Fair enough. |
| 46 | ** I'd assumed that the player character in TS was actually CABAL. There are some units in the campaign (the Nod commander rescued from Hassan's forces in one of the optional missions, and Slavik when he's captured by GDI) who say "Yes, CABAL?" when you click on them. Also, at several points in the cutscenes, you get a CABAL's-eye view of Slavik. |
| 47 | ** Ah, but CABAL directly addresses ''you'' in the mission briefs. He even foreshadows his Firestorm agenda by mentioning how something will advance his plans, but cutting himself short. |
| 48 | ** Easiest explanation? CABAL's a hive-mind. You are CABAL, while also being a drone/underling of CABAL. Hence why people call you CABAL and talk directly to you/CABAL. The reason why the mission where Slavik was captured refers to 'you' is because you're relaying CABAL's orders to him. |
| 49 | ** I'd rather go with that Slavik controls CABAL who, in turn, directly controls and communicates with the Nod forces. As a matter of fact, the armed worshippers of Nod are more familiar with CABAL than the man who's currently behind it. Also, given the series's crush on EasyCommunication, it would be hell a lot easier to make the almighty AI do the dirty job on leading your troopers on target than leading them all by yourself; that is, all you need to do is just give an order to your human resources through CABAL which will process it on the way.[[note]]Not sure how such a scheme would work in ''Tiberian Dawn'', though...[[/note]] |
| 50 | |
| 51 | [[/folder]] |
| 52 | |
| 53 | [[folder:Orange Tiberium]] |
| 54 | |
| 55 | * The orange Tiberium crystals that appear near the end of ''Firestorm''; was there a point to them, or were they just foreshadowing for C&C3 that never got taken advantage of after EA took over the series? |
| 56 | ** They will show up again in Tiberian Twilight, apparently, along with traditional green and blue (they're more valuable than both of those put together) |
| 57 | |
| 58 | [[/folder]] |
| 59 | |
| 60 | [[folder:Nod player from 3]] |
| 61 | |
| 62 | * The fate of the Nod player character from Command and Conquer 3. Are 'you' killed off-screen in Kane's Wrath? Do you survive? Are you used as a biological battery for Legion? It really bugs me we never got closure for what happened to me/you/him/her after the campaign. |
| 63 | ** I believe (s)he's just going to go through the Threshold with the rest of the Inner Circle(if this is the plan) when LEGION does whatever he was sent to do. Maybe we'll play as him/her again and join up with LEGION in conquering a Scrin world for Nod. |
| 64 | ** Aye, I know that, but what bugs me is that during Kane's Wrath it's said all of Kane's commanders were murdered - during a time that's set after the events of [=CnC3=]. If the player character was killed off as well, it seems a bit anticlimactic. |
| 65 | ** I don't recall that, what mission was it on? |
| 66 | ** It's the briefing of the mission where you first play around with cyborgs, IIRC. Certainly after that point. It's the post-[=CnC3=] campaign. |
| 67 | ** "Nods generals are dead. Their militias defeated" "but not all is as it seems". A two line description of a generic briefing compared to Kane talking about the masses dying but the chosen few(aka everyone around the tower) going with him to wherever, leads me to believe that the inner circle guys including the TW general are still around just inactive and playing dead along with Kane to fool GDI. |
| 68 | ** Didn't he say that GDI wiped Nod from the face of planet almost completely? It makes sense, because the did get suckered by 2 nod re-emergences. |
| 69 | |
| 70 | [[/folder]] |
| 71 | |
| 72 | [[folder:Stealing nukes]] |
| 73 | |
| 74 | * Nod has the capability to build its own nuclear weapons in every Tiberium game. So why are they stealing nukes from GDI in Tiberian Wars? Wouldn't it be just simpler to just build own nukes? |
| 75 | ** Because they'd lost the capability to build their own nukes due to GDI capturing all their stuff. Or because builing some would take too long. (Remember the Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation) |
| 76 | ** And when did GDI capture all their stuff? At that point Nod controls huge parts of the entire world and their nuclear facilities are probably located all over the world, how would GDI capture them just like this? And since they have the capability, they should have some nukes stored and ready to use, why not take these instead? In the missions afterwards you have nukes at your disposal, so they've got to come from somewhere. |
| 77 | ** It's mentioned ingame that Nod's [=WMD=]s were being kept in Africa; Act II of the GDI campaign has you destroying production facilities and launch sites in Egypt. Also, by Nod's Act IV, they were on the run; GDI had destroyed their HQ, remember? Anyways, remember the person sending you on the mission is Kilian, who didn't know all the details of Kane's plan, so it's possible that Nod ''had'' backup nukes, but she didn't know about them so she sent you to steal GDI's. |
| 78 | ** Nod having backup nukes that Killian didn't know about also explains why you can fire as many nuclear missiles as you like in the late-game missions, despite having stolen only three warheads from GDI. |
| 79 | ** This is totally untrue. In the original Command & Conquer there are three separate missions where you specifically have to steal the nuclear weapon parts from GDI and you only ever get to use that one. Covert Ops has about three more nukes with no word on where they came from (probably also stolen) and there are no nuclear weapons of any sort in Tiberian Sun. Tiberian Wars is the first game where Nod have plentiful access to nuclear weapons outside of multiplayer. |
| 80 | |
| 81 | [[/folder]] |
| 82 | |
| 83 | [[folder:Avatar design]] |
| 84 | |
| 85 | * What exactly was going on inside the head of the Avatar's designer? Canonically, the Purifier, which came pre-equipped with a flamethrower, came first. What made somebody say "Wow, this GiantRobot is good, but what if we take out the flamethrower and made it so that it could rip allied units apart for added firepower?". And why make it so it can only "borrow" Nod gear (which makes it marginally useful in missions where you and your enemy are both Nod, but idiotic in any other situation)? |
| 86 | ** Because Nod could be sure it would have its own equipment much more readily than GDI's... As for the "kill the crew" thing, it's just to make it look badass. |
| 87 | ** How would the know they could fit GDI equipment on a Nod vehicle? It's not PlugNPlayTechnology. |
| 88 | ** SuperPrototype, maybe? |
| 89 | ** Nod is prone to infighting even when Kane's around let alone when he isn't. Since the Avatar doesn't have to actually grab a flamethrower or what have you off a vehicle you own - it just has to be a Nod vehicle - it was probably designed on some level with the knowledge that [[WeAreStrugglingTogether Nod isn't particularly unified in any sense beyond hating GDI]]. |
| 90 | |
| 91 | [[/folder]] |
| 92 | |
| 93 | [[folder:LEGION's disappearance]] |
| 94 | |
| 95 | * Legion. Where'd you go, bro? |
| 96 | ** LEGION is implied to be the tactical AI that supports the Nod player in C&C4. |
| 97 | ** Which is kinda stupid, considering that the whole point of LEGION is that he's not just an EVA unit or a program designed to nudge the Commander awake whenever his units start dying. LEGION is supposed to be the harbinger of Kane, his eternally loyal right hand and his greatest creation. Reducing him to the level of an ordinary EVA misses out on the whole point of LEGION and Kane's Wrath, suggesting that C&C4 is, in fact, so bad that it drags down the rest of the Tiberium franchise with it. |
| 98 | ** LEGION ''is'' the Tiberium Control Network, perhaps? |
| 99 | ** Alternate theory that I'm about to put on the WMG page - at the end of Kane's Wrath, Kane synchs you (Legion) up with the Tacitus and a ton of Scrin script gets splashed onscreen, as if we linked up with their network. My guess is Legion got sent to Ichor Hub, where he took over (taking out the Scrin and neutralizing the threat of that full-scale Scrin invasion that we were promised at the end of Tiberium Wars) and readied things on that end for all of the Nod Loyalists that Ascended at the end of Tiberian Twilight. Would have been an awfully short trip if they moved through Threshold 19 into an environment that was lethal to humans. |
| 100 | |
| 101 | [[/folder]] |
| 102 | |
| 103 | [[folder:Scrin invasion]] |
| 104 | |
| 105 | * What happened to the Scrin? Where was the epic invasion we were promised? |
| 106 | ** Likely hauling their ass over here at STL speeds. Again. |
| 107 | ** But they wouldn't need to, with Threshold 19 in place. That's why both Nod and the Scrin were so desperate to protect it in Tiberium Wars, it was a portal node, and offered a link back to the Scrin homeworld. A Scrin armada could use the tower as a means of invading Earth very quickly, they wouldn't need to travel normally. |
| 108 | ** The Scrin were supposed to invade in ''Tiberium'', but [[ExecutiveMeddling noooooo.....]] |
| 109 | ** Alternately, the situation on Earth simply changed and made any attempt at invasion either suicidal or pointless. You've got to remember that the original Scrin harvesting operation was in fact begun too early. Most of the tiberium fields were "immature" in their eyes and this likely stunted the Scrin harvesting force's economy. An immediate invasion might mean coming at Earth with a real military force and not just what amounted to security guards, but you'd still need to harvest tiberium to support it. More forces means more resources needed to keep them in fighting condition. GDI and Nod had a chance, however remote, at turning back a Scrin invasion after the Third Tib War ended. That might have been enough of a chance to give the Scrin pause. Secondly, soon after the Third Tiberium War, humanity found itself in a pretty bad situation with rapid, uncontrollable tiberium growth that was on its way of destroying mankind right then and there. The Scrin might have figured it'd be a good idea to wait a bit until the tiberium fields were satisfactory mature, then strike at a already broken mankind. AsYouKnow , this didn't happen because the situation changed yet again due our lovable Messiah. This brings us to the obvious statement that the Scrin stayed on Earth in TW for one reason: Kane. They seemed pretty interested in the Prophet and likely had some idea that he would try to Ascend. Once he did Ascend, there'd be no point to invading Earth anymore. Heck, the Scrin might have a vague idea of where Kane actually ascended to and their invasion is not of Earth the planet, but of the species that inhabit(ed) it. It could be that just like the Vulcans are from Vulcan, the Scrin call us Earth 'cus we're from Earth. Calling us "Terrans" requires them speaking or knowing Greek and Earthlings is way too cliche for badass alien planet looters. They likely consider Nod to be the more likely representative of a dominant Earth culture rather than GDI due to both Nod controlling most yellow zones and almost all red zones (read: Nod controls most of the planet's landmass and Tib deposits) and having a better understanding of Tiberium and Scrin technologies. A few plutocrats and technocrats in their blue zones are not really that high on the Scrin's "I must destroy" list, at least not when compared to Kane and Nod. If we ever see Kane again, we might find him with the Scrin hot on his heels, or at least looking for him. And as a bit of a WMG, it may be that the Scrin want the technology for Ascension for themselves, thus the invasion could also be right after the Fourth Tib War so that the Scrin can grab control of the Tib Control Network and perhaps reverse engineer their way to Ascension. In any case, the Scrin invasion could be a very possible bad end for GDI. Barring all that, it could be that the Scrin just figured it be a better idea to invade EA instead of Earth and made C&C4 the shitstorm that it is out of revenge. |
| 110 | ** The Scrin were drawn to Earth by the Liquid-T blast that leveled Temple Prime. They'd sent Tiberium to Earth, but when they showed up (the blast apparently being a sign that should have occurred naturally when the Tib-fields had reached sufficient concentration) they were expecting a dying civilization that was tearing itself apart and could be mopped up easily. Instead, they got a struggling society that had adapted to the new threat and had even started utilizing it. The Foreman (the Scrin PC) and his Adjutant wanted to bail out and wait until the humans died out, but the Scrin hierarchy pushed them ahead, wanting to know why the blast occurred. Then they caught wind of Kane, and wanted to know more about him, because apparently his DNA was in their data banks. Then the Foreman found out that he was expendable... |
| 111 | |
| 112 | [[/folder]] |
| 113 | |
| 114 | [[folder:Kane's plan in 4]] |
| 115 | |
| 116 | * Kane's plan to Ascend. He makes a scientist implant devices into five people that he could use to activate the Scrin Tower, but makes no real effort to protect them (seeing as Gideon easily kills four of them, mostly offscreen) or even pick people loyal to him (considering the Player Character is one, regardless of which side you choose). And why not get one of the implants for himself? And then there is his brilliant plan to protect the PC in the Nod Campaign by infusing him with his own DNA... then putting him in grave danger, mostly as a distraction. |
| 117 | ** Kane is shown to have incredible regenerative powers, to the extent that he recovered from having half his face burned off. Thus, it is quite possible that his regenerative powers would simply "heal" the implants right out of his eyes. |
| 118 | ** That still doesn't excuse the fact that he seemingly ''tries'' to make things easier for the assassins out gunning for the implants. There is no reason for him to put the player character out in the open to give a speech like that after all the other implants have been killed. Indeed, the logical thing at this point would be to sequester the player character away in a secure bunker somewhere and give the speech himself. I think it's safe to just chalk this one up as a massive plot hole and call it a day. |
| 119 | ** You're talking about Kane's regenerative abilities, and the first thing that comes to mind is the "half my face gone" thing? [[SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome How about the time he]] [[NoOneCouldSurviveThat survived an]] '''[[KillSat Ion Cannon]]'''? Also, never played 4; why wouldn't Kane just make a remote to control the tower? Heck, maybe that was the ''point''. If the PC got killed, "Yay! Now he can't do [whatever]! Wait, what? How did he?!" |
| 120 | ** That half his face gone bit is '''referring''' to the time he took an Ion Cannon to the face. The Cannon is used to demolish structures...he walked it off. He gets shot several times and takes a massive spike of Tiberium in the gut...he's back in a couple years. You can't kill this guy! |
| 121 | |
| 122 | [[/folder]] |
| 123 | |
| 124 | [[folder:Stuck on Earth]] |
| 125 | |
| 126 | * How, oh how did Kane get stuck on Earth in the first place? Those of us in the C&C community who thought he was an alien since the franchise debuted in the 90s (present company included) are STILL waiting for an answer to this question. |
| 127 | ** Now, I'm of the "Kane is Cain" persuasion myself, but there's an easy answer here: It's been proven that the only FTL tech in this universe is portals. So, Kane steps through the portal, it gets destroyed for whatever reason, he's stuck. |
| 128 | ** Let us not forget. Kane may be the Prophet, but he's also a ManipulativeBastard. He might have been exiled by...whatever alien species he belongs to. |
| 129 | |
| 130 | [[/folder]] |
| 131 | |
| 132 | [[folder:Mortimer's cult]] |
| 133 | |
| 134 | * Mortimer's cult bugs me on two levels. First of all, why can they stand in the middle of Tiberium fields with no ill effects? Secondly, given that they worship Tiberium and the creatures it creates, why do they hate mutants so much that they shoot Ghoststalker on sight? Since the guy has Tiberium crystals growing from his body, you'd think they would view him as some sort of divine avatar or something. |
| 135 | ** They could be mutants themselves. Do they heal over time or in Tiberium? I don't remember. They might be shooting Ghoststalker on sight just because they're easily spooked by guys hauling massive railguns into their places of worship. |
| 136 | |
| 137 | [[/folder]] |
| 138 | |
| 139 | [[folder: Escaping a doomed Earth]] |
| 140 | |
| 141 | * With Earth [[GaiasLament going down]] [[CrapsackWorld the shitter]] by [[VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberianSun 2030]] why hasn't [=GDI=] focused on space exploration and colonization? They already seem to be able to reach low-Earth orbit fairly [[CasualInterplanetaryTravel casually]] (the Kodiak can) and have at least one major space station (GDSS Philadelphia) alongside other advanced technology. Tiberium makes resources abundant and is also an existential threat to humanity, so there should be plenty of political motivation and little financial reticence to funding heavily into setting up habitats elsewhere in the solar system or even sending a ColonyShip to another star system. As a bonus point they could very thoroughly screen the colonists for Nod affiliations to make sure they don't bring ''that'' particular problem to the planet they're colonizing. |
| 142 | |
| 143 | [[/folder]] |
| 144 | |
| 145 | [[folder: Literature shaping technology]] |
| 146 | |
| 147 | * Scientists and engineers getting inspiration from science fiction is TruthInTelevision. So, does the Dune novel series exist in the ''Tiberian'' universe? One could imagine the in-universe inventor of the harvester and the Orca Carryall thinking about Dune when making those designs, and being giddy about implementing them in real life. Equally, witnessing the mechanics of harvesting a resource from the ground and bringing it to a refinery would be expected to elicit quite a number of amused remarks. Perhaps even funnier would be the thought of the Herbert Limited Partnership attempting to sue GDI for using terms from a novel for real life technology. |
| 148 | |
| 149 | [[/folder]] |
| 150 | |
| 151 | '''Red Alert series''' |
| 152 | [[folder:Empire of the Rising Sun]] |
| 153 | |
| 154 | * Here's one for you; The Empire of the Rising Sun appears for the first time in [=RA3=]. Why? Not why did it appear but why then? The alternate timeline is that WWII never happened, thus Japan would never have got involved in that mess. The theory that is pushed by the game is that 'Einstein never existed so his theory was never created and thus Japan wasn't nuked' makes no sense since, well, there was no WWII anyway so unless someone nuked Japan for the hell of it then that is irrelevant. Sure, it could just be that the Empire sat there biulding up power while the Soviets and Allies kicked each other to bits but in the intro, the two new Soviet leaders, after coming back to the new timeline when Einstein never existed *have no idea what Officer Dasha is on about when she alerts them that The Empire is invading Russia*. In other words, The Empire didn't exist in the original timeline. The answer that 'maybe there was a war where Japan got nuked in the 'no Hitler' timeline' also doesn't make sense since no one mentions such a war. Ever. Shall we just put this down to a massive plot hole or a hugely messed up timeline? It's hardly a game destroyer, just annoying! |
| 155 | ** Red Alert 3 isn't meant to be taken seriously, just roll with it. |
| 156 | ** I believe the Red Alert series threw out common sense somewhere between the teleporting time commandos, the laser-katana-wielding samurai, and the battles between jetpack-wearing cosmonauts and the minions of a psychic dictator from Transylvania ''on the moon''. |
| 157 | ** I agree. Don't forget that the 'boring' faction in [=RA3=] is the one with helicopters that can freeze or shrink stuff, an amphibious battleship, a commando who's only armor is a rather 'well proportioned' chest and war dolphins capable of sinking ships with sound waves. [[spoiler:Oh and a weaponized Mount Rushmore all run by a President that makes real world Presidents look normal and is actually a robot who's working for the bad guys.]] That's the boring guys... |
| 158 | ** Without the European front, there wouldn't be a World War - just a regional war between United States and Japan played out in the Pacific Theater that wouldn't need to get mentioned because it was wholly irrelevant to the all-out war against the Soviet Union. |
| 159 | ** That still does not make sense. The reason Japan and the USA went to war in reality was because of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour (and Hawaii is Japanese in Red Alert 3, even) after the United States and the Netherlands cut Japan off from metal and oil exports. In Red Alert, Germany does not occupy or distract the European colonial powers to allow Japan a chance at taking their colonies. Instead they are fighting a desperate battle against the Soviet Union, a power that the Empire of Japan was terribly afraid of. Background information even indicates Stalin persued war in Asia before turning his attention to Europe, so it is very likely the two countries battled each other over control over China. Not only would it have been foolish for the Japanese to attack the United States and European nations while the Soviet Union was becoming ever more aggressive, it would have been even less believeable that America would persue war on Japan, which was their best bet at preventing Soviet domination of Asia. |
| 160 | ** Nevertheless, Japan probably did attack Pearl Harbor sometime between Red Alert and Red Alert 2 just like the historical timeline, since the Arizona memorial is still there. |
| 161 | ** Arizona and Iwo Jima memorials /=/ Historical events happened!!!! They could've put the former up because-say- a Soviet submarine or pro-Communist Hawaiian terrorist destroyed the Arizona in this timeline. |
| 162 | *** Korea is free as well in this universe not a colony of Japan, so something happened to the Japanese Empire in the original Red Alert universe. The presence of the Arizona and Iwo Jima memorials make it safe to say that America had its own pacific war in this world separate to the war with Russia. |
| 163 | ** There may also have been programming limitations involved as well. At least in the original Red Alert, it would have been very difficult to implement more than two factions each with their own distinct units. Red Alert 2 didn't incorporate a true third faction until the Yuri's Revenge expansion, which might have been more of a test of "Okay, how well can we implement a three-faction RTS?" than a "Let's throw in a psychic third wheel faction for teh lulz", which would make Red Alert 3's Empire of the Rising Sun more plausible on a technical standpoint once it was demonstrated that computers could handle the extra resources and programming required for three completely distinct factions with their own units, structures, superweapons, and storylines. |
| 164 | * Why does Japan have a completely different dynasty? Einstein's erasure shouldn't have affected Hirohito's existence. In fact, depending on [[AmbiguousTimePeriod when the game takes place]], he could've still been alive and in power. If not him, then his son (although since ''he'' was emperor back when the game came out, the developers may've done this to avoid trouble). Did Japan not getting nuked somehow lead to a coup, or is the PointOfDivergence in the ''Red Alert'' universe placed much earlier than we think? |
| 165 | |
| 166 | [[/folder]] |
| 167 | |
| 168 | [[folder:Uprising Allies]] |
| 169 | |
| 170 | * Why would the Allies [[spoiler:remove their forces out of Russia after the Soviet's ending in Uprising? These are the same people who backstabbed them during the Battle of Tokyo, was about to send ships armed with bombs that could possibly destroy cities from Cuba, and would attack the Allies anytime they want. Yet, after the whole FT screwing around in Russia, and the Soviets stop them, the Allies decide to trust the Soviets again. I mean, this is a faction who TRUSTED an enemy general(Empire) and they were fucking surprised that the enemy general BETRAYED them and took the Chronosphere. If the Soviet campaign(and empire possibly) is canon, this whole "leaving Russia" is definitely going to bite them in the ass.]] Are they [[TooDumbtoLive good or extremely stupid?]] |
| 171 | ** [[GoodIsDumb A little]] [[IdiotHero of both]]. |
| 172 | |
| 173 | [[/folder]] |
| 174 | |
| 175 | [[folder:Red Alert 3 timeline]] |
| 176 | |
| 177 | * When the hell does Red Alert 3 take place? Plasma [=TVs=] are mentioned in a cutscene, Times Square appears and seems fairly modern, there's SchizoTech everywhere you look on the battlefield... |
| 178 | ** Datewise, just after RA 2, Allied campaign almost victory.. and after said victory is retconned out. So, yeah, basically SchizoTech. |
| 179 | ** Judging by all the allusions made to the actual 2008 Presidential Campaign in the advertisements, it's probably set in present day. Albeit a present day where nukes were never invented, the Soviet Union still exists, [[spoiler:and there are [[EnergyWeapon Frickin' Laser Beams]] hidden in Mt. Rushmore that are controlled by the President of the United States, who also happens to be a robot built by Imperial Japan.]] |
| 180 | ** As said above, the same time that [=RA2=] ends, making it around 1972-ish. |
| 181 | ** The plasma [=TVs=] in the seventies bug you but the giant, colour, monitor that is clearly connected to some sort of computer that is seen in the briefing room of almost every Soviet mission in the original Red Alert (set in the 1950s) doesn't? |
| 182 | ** When you can build twin-barrel tanks the size of houses and harness weaponised Tesla technology, it's probably safe to say that a big colour-TV really isn't much of a feat to accomplish. |
| 183 | ** Bet they still haven't manged to invent toilet paper yet though. |
| 184 | |
| 185 | [[/folder]] |
| 186 | |
| 187 | [[folder:Paradox]] |
| 188 | |
| 189 | * If the Soviets RetGone Einstein, wouldn't that mean he wasn't able to invent the Chronosphere and RetGone Hitler, meaning the Nazis came to power, and WWII happened, weakening the Soviets as Hitler's removal was the reason to their rise to power in the first place? |
| 190 | ** They zapped him after he killed Hitler but before he invented weapons that made the USA all-powerful. |
| 191 | ** Except that Einstein invented the Chronosphere after WWII, considering he specifically aimed for Hitler. He wouldn't do so if he didn't know what Hitler would do. Even if he did go back to 1925 to kill Hitler, his going back to do that would be erased, since he never had the chance to invent the Chronosphere, having been killed in 1927, well before WWII. |
| 192 | ** Alternate timelines. |
| 193 | ** Einstein A uses Time Machine to go back and remove Hitler, his time is unchanged but it splits off a new timeline where there's no Hitler and is Red Alert 1, apparently because the timeline was changed Einstein B created the Chronosphere instead of Time Machine and uses a different form of Time Travel, leading to the series as it is. Somehow [=FutureTech=] has managed to invent a slightly different form of everything Einstein originally invented and new "Cryo" technology(but not the Weather Machine and Nuclear Weapons). |
| 194 | |
| 195 | [[/folder]] |
| 196 | |
| 197 | [[folder:Von Essling]] |
| 198 | |
| 199 | * Why is it that there is a Von Essling Airbase in [=RA3=] (clearly named after the allied leader in [=RA1=]) but none of the characters in [=RA2=] are even mentioned? Was the timeline change that drastic? And why is Tanya blonde all of a sudden? |
| 200 | ** Alternate timeline. * shrug* The events of [=RA1=] clearly happened, but its not so clear if the events of [=RA2=] took place. |
| 201 | ** The events of the first Red Alert clearly ''didn't'' happen, since both Einstein and nukes (separately, nukes being a Soviet development in the Red Alert-verse -- Red Alert 3's handling of nukes is yet another of Red Alert 3's offenses against common sense) play key parts in the Allied campaign (and the Soviet obviously didn't happen, since Britain isn't under Soviet occupation). ''However'', Von Esling is liable to still have risen to become one of the Allies' main military commanders. Presumably the German led the Allies in a war that was drastically different yet in some ways similar to the one in Red Alert 1. |
| 202 | ** Tanya is more of a LegacyCharacter than a recurring character. |
| 203 | ** It's also stated that 'Tanya' is more of a code name for the top commando of the Allied forces (other games also mention that she is a civilian which indicates some sort of complex relationship with 'Tanya' and Allied command, maybe a deniable asset of some sort) more than anything. The same is hinted at with Natasha for the Soviets, as for Japan's commando... many seem to consider her an abomination of sorts (the AI doesn't even state when she has been killed). |
| 204 | ** Not entirely sure but I think Tanya Adams from [=RA1=] is a mercenary working for the Allies and [=RA2=] Tanya is a completely different person who is part of the US special forces, possibly with Tanya actually being a codename to honour Tanya Adams. |
| 205 | |
| 206 | [[/folder]] |
| 207 | |
| 208 | [[folder:Rising Sun and Japan]] |
| 209 | |
| 210 | * In Red Alert 3 almost every time the Empire of the Rising Sun is mentioned, it's referred to as "The Empire" or "Rising Sun", especially in the context of "Rising Sun forces have moved in to try to take our base" but in the Allies North Sea mission where you have to destroy the Empire's Floating Fortress, every single mention of Empire forces is replaced with Japan, such as "Japan is attempting to cut off our supply lanes" and "Japanese forces are inbound". Now I know the Rising Sun is Japan (duh) and they refer to the Empires original name a few times, but never this much, and there's nary a mention of the Empire or Rising Sun. It seems like this was the very first mission they created and were still referring to it as "The Empire of Japan" |
| 211 | ** Almost certainly because there was a real [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan Empire of Japan]], many regard it as rather... unkind, and because I'm sure it would not please any in Japan who know there history and are proud of it. "Empire of the Rising Sun" is basically just a more marketable name. Same reason why the Iron Cross replaces the Swastika as the Nazi German symbol in many WWII video games. |
| 212 | |
| 213 | [[/folder]] |
| 214 | |
| 215 | [[folder:Red Alert maps]] |
| 216 | |
| 217 | * The maps of [=RA1=]. If you'll take a look at the maps seen during the briefings, you'll see a Europe that, with the exception of a unified Germany, looks exactly like [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Cold_war_europe_military_alliances_map_en.png Europe during the Cold War]]. As has already been pointed out on the main page, [[http://www.wall-maps.com/Classroom/HISTORY/World/Europe1938.gif pre-WWII Europe did not look like that]]. Now, the fact that the developers apparently thought that no-one would notice or care is bothersome enough, but what really gets this troper is that they ''did'' bother to get the map right in some of the cutscenes (such as, if this troper recalls correctly, the cutscene shown after failing the first Allied mission). Really makes you wonder, doesn't it? |
| 218 | ** Maybe those four minor countries were enveloped by their neighbors whose armies didn't have a World War to fight and thus were strong while other minor border wars were also fought. I'm pretty sure the war was delayed long enough for that to happen. Iceland seems to have gained some land over the years in those maps. |
| 219 | ** Iceland gaining land? The Cold War map uses a Mercator projection while the 1938 map uses an Albers projection - I'm pretty sure this is the difference you're talking about. |
| 220 | ** I don't know about that stuff so it's probably it, but it looks like the lower right of the island has mass added in the Cold war map while the little islands between Iceland and the UK look smaller in it. |
| 221 | ** Yes, that's definitely a result of the difference between the two projections. Keep in mind that it's suprisingly hard to make a completely accurate ''flat'' map of a ''round'' surface, and that using different projections can therefore result in slightly different maps. |
| 222 | ** As for your previous point; you're ignoring a few major factors here. Just why would the border wars you mentioned take place? It's quite plausible that the Soviets would occupy the Baltic states and more or less get away with it, but why would the rest of Europe watch and do nothing when Poland, a close ally of France and Britain, is invaded by the Soviets and turned into a communist state ([=RA1=] began with the Soviets invading Germany from Poland), when there was a very real fear of communism in Europe at the time? It was Hitler's invasion of Poland that caused France and Britain to declare war on Germany, after all. And just how did Germany lose Pomerania, Silesia and East Prussia when Germany had already lost all territories with a non-German majority thanks to the Treaty of Versailles? The fact that Germany's military power during the events of [=RA1=] is implied to be on par with that of Britain and France only makes this weirder... And at any rate, that still doesn't explain why they used two different maps in the game. |
| 223 | ** I can't think of any reason, guess they just screwed up. |
| 224 | ** To add to this, current borders of Poland (seen on the in-game map) are a result of FOUR separate arrangements which took part during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII - (1) The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, which established the German and Soviet zones in occupied Poland (2) an addendum to R-M, which gave Volhynia and Lvov area to Germans (3) Agreement between Roosevelt and Stalin, incorporating the entire Soviet occupation zone AND Volhynia-Lvov into the USSR (4) Final arrangements at the end of the war, giving Masuria, Pomerania and Silesia to the newly-founded communist state in Poland. |
| 225 | ** Also, it should be remembered that if the Nazi threat was to be eliminated, the entire Europe would be ready to handle an expected Soviet invasion. Polish army would be mobilized on the eastern border, very likely with additional support from other European countries - and the USSR had already lost one war against Poland 18 years earlier (which could conceivably be less in-game, I don't remember when [=RA1=] starts). AND we have to remember that the Soviets invaded Poland 2 weeks after Germany only because they were tied in a war with expansionist Japan. But then again, the series seems to have eliminated fascism from Europe, which was devised in response to communism... Well, to prevent my head from exploding thinking of all illogical events in the RA universe, I'll just [[MST3KMantra roll with it]]. |
| 226 | ** Alright, here's my grand theory regarding the RA universe prior to the outbreak of their WWII for events to fall into place for the map we see in the game. With Hitler dead, Germany continues its chaotic internal bloodbaths, but without Hitler to emerge as a charismatic leader and decisively break the stalemate to unite Germany, the factions fight themselves more or less to a state of exhaustion, leaving either the weak, right-wing Weimar regime in power or a fairly unambitious military regime that is satisfied to try and expand East and into Austria in minor ways while leaving the West to be. The Japanese probably probe into China like they did historically, but they stop when the Soviet Union starts to arise as a truly powerful threat. The Depression happens and plays out like it did historically before being eliminated early due to military orders from reaction to the USSR. The true point at which their history diverges considerably from ours is in the 30's or so, when Stalin- having used the peace and quiet of the 20's and 30's to annihilate the opposition and the incompetents even more thoroughly than he had- launches an invasion of Finland and the Baltic states (doesn't really matter which one comes first, with Finland being the catalyst that brings the Red Army into the modern world after initial defeats like what happened historically before being eventually crushed by the sheer weight of numbers. The West and the League of Nations make threats but don't do much, and this spurs Stalin to further infiltrate the Western governments and to begin trying to install a likeminded regime in Spain and Portugal at least(like what we saw with the Popular Front, only vastly, vastly more so). Eventually, he gets bold enough that he launches a general offensive against Poland and stomps them flat (most likely using their superior armor and airpower to decide the matter). Driven in large part by sheer momentum and by some German threats at retaliation, they invade both the German enclave of East Prussia and Eastern mainland Germany, totally conquering the former and driving the later back until the skeleton German army- bolstered by reinforcements and Western support- manage to stop the overextended Red Army on a defensive line backed by the natural defenses of the Oder and Lusatian Niesse River. Eventually, the fighting stops, but the Soviets remain in control of Poland, establishing a Soviet puppet like they did IRL, and allowing it to annex the captured German territory (save for Koningsberg, or Kalingrad, which they annex themselves) to avoid notice of them annexing Poland's old Eastern frontier, like they did IRL. This is a massive shock to the rest of the world, which has largely been mothballing their military to feed domestic need, and it is only heightened when Stalin later attacks Romania using its Moldavian territories as a casus belli, and likewise gains a decisive victory. Hungary intervenes for whatever reason (either as part of an unlikely alliance forged out of desperation or in a freelance attempt to gain Transylvania back) and is promptly crushed and occupied for its troubles. The results of this are threefold: The rest of the world puts their mutual "issues" on the backburner very, VERY rapidly. The West drops all Versailles restrictions on Germany and gives aid for a military buildup, the Japanese, the KMT, and the West come to an agreement that they hold off on killing each other while Stalin remains a threat, and the US is drawn in to the Allies in one form or another (either as a full member or as a quasi-ally, like FDR was from 1939-41). 2. With the League of Nations utterly humiliated and pro-Soviet forces at work pretty much throughout the non-Communist world (as they were IRL), the military begins to come to prominence in European politics, either explicitly taking over or being allowed a very, VERY loose leash by the civilian governments as one of the few reliable anti-Soviet power blocs they have available. C. The Depression dies early, with the sudden outpouring of demand for war material ending the Western European depressions on time and the American one far ahead of time. The sum of this is that a "Cold War" emerges between the Soviets and pretty much everyone else, but with open war being avoided by minor "brushfire" ones, like the Spanish Civil War (which sees whatever pro-Soviet faction there is get easily crushed by the anti-Soviet one, with the aid of the Allies, and with the Soviet navy sent to help it being torpedoed by the British, French, Italians, Greeks, and Germans, like the Italians and Germans did historically). Decolonization is stopped more or less in its tracks, though with the potential for a few exceptions. The Golden Square in Iraq- having not attempted a rising in support of the Nazi war machine in 1941 and been wiped out in retaliation- launches a war against the Royalist government of Iraq with Soviet support, and succeeds once British (and other Allied) intervention is stopped by Soviet threats. Finally, the Soviets Communists within Czechoslovakia either attempt a rising in Slovakia or a coup in Prague, which leads to fighting between the (primarily Czech) Loyalists and the (primarily Slovak) Communists, which eventually ends in stalemate, with Slovakia being partitioned ALA Korea into a Communist Slovakia and an Allied Czech nation. For years afterward, these minimalist skirmishes occur, with the Soviets attempting to inspire Communist revolt in Allied territories, and the Allies checking them and inspiring guerilla warfare in the Soviet occupied areas, until one day Stalin judges the time is ripe and orders the military to move against the German, Czech, and Austrian border forts while simultaneously dispatching an enlarged Pacific fleet to strike against the USN and RN bases of Pearl Harbor, Manila, and Singapore while the Soviets and their Far Eastern Allies (the Mongolians officially and the CCP unofficially) invade KMT-dominated China and potentially the Japanese protectorates in Korea and (possibly) Manchuria, with the KMT collapsing within about a year due to widespread Communist support, the unpopularity of Chiang Kai-Shek, and the perception of the Soviets as "liberators" from Western imperialism. This allows the Soviet army to redeploy to Europe. Thus starts the events in the game. |
| 227 | ** Western Europe is heavily implied to be an (albeit liberal) anti-communist military dictatorship during [=RA1=]. This would make fascism superfluous as an ideological movement. |
| 228 | ** Not really. For one, Fascism was a unique ideology, one that a Liberal/Enlightened junta like the Allies are in RA's WWII would likely not be able to harness in any great numbers. Simply put, I believe that Fascism as we know it split in the RA universe, with the Left wing (such as Rohm and co) joining the Soviets and the Right wing grudgingly joining the allies. |
| 229 | |
| 230 | [[/folder]] |
| 231 | |
| 232 | [[folder:Tanks and planes]] |
| 233 | |
| 234 | * Between [=RA1=] and UsefulNotes/WorldWarI (Which wasn't affected by Einstein), where the HELL did the tanks go? And planes? Why does the war start with the most heavily armored vehicle is a JEEP WITH A MACHINE GUN? (Not taking into account the Ore Trucks) |
| 235 | ** You start at small outposts commanding infantry/light vehicle units facing similar forces, everything else is currently under the control of other officers until you prove you are worthy to command more by completing missions. You wouldn't give some newbie commander your best weaponry when it could go to an older more experienced and proven general. This is the basic premise for the small list of units you are given access to at the start of most RTS games, with only certain units being declared completely new inventions. |
| 236 | ** A much better explaination is that you're not restricted by rank, but by mission requirements. In the Allied campaign, your first mission to rescue Einstein likely used local guerillas and covert forces that could have infiltrated with greater ease than an entire armoured division. The briefing for the second mission already states they have little material in the area, and no time to provide you anything better. Mission three is again focussed on commando operations. By the fourth mission, they were apparently able to release some light armour suited for mountainous terrain. From the fifth mission on however, you have access to the mainstay of the Allied arsenal minus the more fanciful late technologies such as the Chronosphere, GPS satellite or gap generator which hadn't been invented yet. It's not that your technology disappeared or that you're not trusted, the generals have complete confidence in your ability to handle their best weapons. It's simply that most of the time, the best in [[AwesomeButImpractical impractical]] or just not in supply. |
| 237 | |
| 238 | [[/folder]] |
| 239 | |
| 240 | [[folder:Yuri smoker]] |
| 241 | |
| 242 | * In the majority of [=RA2=]'s [=FMVs=], Yuri seems to have smokers lung. And yet, in the FMV before the first mission where you get the psychic soldiers, he briefly talks more or less normally...Should be noted that I haven't beat [=RA2=] yet, so I wouldn't know if there's an actual explanation later on. |
| 243 | ** Rule of creepy. |
| 244 | |
| 245 | [[/folder]] |
| 246 | |
| 247 | [[folder:Killing mind-controlled]] |
| 248 | |
| 249 | * Why are the Allies in [=RA2:YR=] willing to kill hundreds of thousands of mind-controlled people in trying to defeat Yuri, but then leave him alive when they catch him? Is the life of the mastermind behind it all more valuable than those of the people who are on his side against their will? |
| 250 | ** Because they could capture him and not killing him [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim marks them as the "good guys"]]. If you're talking about his initiates and other soldiers, I got the impression that the basic troops were mostly people who worshipped Yuri before any mind control and clones made to obey him. Also see WhatMeasureIsAMook. |
| 251 | ** For the same reason that in OIF the Coalition killed hundreds to thousands of Iraqi soldiers but took Saddam Hussein alive when they found him. When the leader of an enemy force is captured, you usually keep him alive, for a little bit, if only for a trial followed by execution. Justice and all that pizzazz. |
| 252 | ** In addition to the above reasons, for the simple fact that they REALLY didn't have any other options at the time. Yuri used mind control PRECISELY BECAUSE it could be spread quickly and used anywhere. There REALLY isn't a very easy, effective way to non-lethally incapacitate hundreds upon hundreds of people doing a ZergRush at you, and given the disorganized nature of the Allies in the expansion pack, it is unlikely they would have actually been in a place to USE it even if they did have one. And the fact that due to the nature of Yuri's Psychic power, anyone they DO incapacitate and restrain will still probably be feeding data to Yuri and a potential threat should they ever escape. In contrast, Yuri is only one person, and once psychic protection has evolved to sufficient levels, it is quite possible that they would simply be able to take and capture him. |
| 253 | ** Plus, they probably want to interrogate Yuri about what other nasty secrets he's got hidden around the globe. Maybe find out a bit about his tech, see if the effects of the Dominator or the Genetic Mutator can be reversed. |
| 254 | ** Yuri's fate is arguably worse than death, even more than being eaten by a Tyrannosaurus Rex (his fate in the Soviet campaign). It even has elements of AndIMustScream. |
| 255 | ** I'd say this is quite simply about the difference between a combatant/non-combatant - one does not simply kill the latter at sight, including prisoners of war and people such as Saddam Hussein or Yuri. |
| 256 | |
| 257 | [[/folder]] |
| 258 | |
| 259 | [[folder:Controlling Pearl Harbor and Hawaii]] |
| 260 | |
| 261 | * How exactly did the Japanese manage to take control of Pearl Harbor and Hawaii in Red Alert 3? The dialog and monuments make it seem like the Japanese were there for quite a long time, but in Red Alert 2 Pearl Harbor is quite clearly still in American hands, and General Carville remarks that an attack on Pearl Harbor would be impossible implicating that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor never happened in their time. So how did the Japanese manage to gain control of Pearl Harbor after the time loop? It's clear Japan was laying low and wasn't attacking anyone in their timeline, so it couldn't be taken by force, and it seems very unlikely the Americans would just give up Hawaii at any time, especially after the first Soviet War. |
| 262 | ** I was under the impression that "As if they could ever mount a successful attack against us," was less a matter of "they'd have to be suicidal to hit Pearl Harbor" and more a matter of "We're kicking their asses now, and I'm indulging in a little post-battle euphoria." |
| 263 | ** I chalk it up to the tech of the Japanese being vastly, VASTLY superior to what they went to war with in '42, and the same Western overconfidence that led to Pearl Harbor and the 42-43 Pacific blitzkrieg in OTL. IOTL, the leading Western (and particularly American) war leaders believed Pearl Harbor to be largely impregnable in spite of some hints at an aerial solution (for instance, the British raid against the German navy at Taranto and the Soviets in the Russian Civil War). That, and they historically devalued the carrier and the use of airpower in general. Now, we don't have much info on the use of the Navy and Air Force in the Red Alert universe(s), but with the primary enemy of the Western Allies being the Soviet Union- which was very, VERY much a terrestrial power, with a navy that was dwarfed by the CANADIAN one, much less the British/French/American/Japanese ones-, we have every reason to believe that the Western Allies relegated the navy to a support role like they did in Europe in both WWI and WWII and in Korea: namely as a way to cut off enemy trade abroad, force the enemy navy to hole up, defend shipping lines, and provide support as offboard artillery or as a base for aerial assets. In short, there were no sweeping naval battles like those in the Pacific during WWII, and the only experience anyone would have HAD with that in the timeline we are talking about is the possible destruction of the Soviet Pacific Fleet in their WWII, and whatever has happened in the Atlantic since then, which was probably limited to chasing down Commerce raiders and overaggressive squadrons. In short, no real large scale naval battles as we would understand them. That, and Cherdenko's botched invasion Westward would have demanded the reallocation of most of what the Western Allies had to Europe, thus further denuding the Pacific front. That, and this is before we get to the dismally poor nature of the US defenses in Hawaii to begin with. IOTL, Patton infamously conducted several test battles with the garrison as a Japanese commander leading an invasion force, and defeated the defenders every single time, often with inferior forces. Indeed, if the Japanese had brought even a handful of units prepared for ground combat- hell, had even sent the crews of the ships they DID have ashore-, they could probably have conquered a good deal of Hawaii if not the whole thing. However- as the game showed- that would have been a strategic overstep, and indeed the game has the Japanese pay dearly at the hands of the player for it. In short, it was possible. |
| 264 | |
| 265 | [[/folder]] |
| 266 | |
| 267 | [[folder:Soviet tanks]] |
| 268 | |
| 269 | * Why do the Soviets field larger tanks than the Allies in the Red Alert Series? In real life, NATO tanks where much larger than their Soviet counterparts (compare the 70 ton Abrams or the 62 ton Leopard 2 to the 43 ton Soviet t-28.) |
| 270 | ** Alternate timeline. |
| 271 | ** To elaborate, from 1926-1960 (with the birth of the heavier Western tanks), the Soviet heavy armor (KV series, T-38, IS series, etc) was easily heavier than anything the West fielded. And in TTL, there is no WWII as we understand it, it is quite possible that Soviet armored doctrine simply moved in different directions than it did historically. |
| 272 | ** Even quite likely, given that the Soviet Union have much bigger resources in the RA timeline plus the lack of nazi tiger tanks/panzers to demonstrate to them the futility of building overly complicated monster tanks. |
| 273 | |
| 274 | [[/folder]] |
| 275 | |
| 276 | [[folder:German Allied commander]] |
| 277 | |
| 278 | * Why is the supreme commander of the Allied forces in [=RA1=] German? Did not the treaty of Versailles forbid Germany to field tanks or a navy? How are they leading the superior armies of the British or the French? |
| 279 | ** Alternate timeline. |
| 280 | ** Bah. Sad answer, given that Versailles was ''before'' the timelines diverge. A better answer: the Germans have a history of kicking more ass with less than just about anybody, and the spectre of Soviet aggression led (just as in our timeline, albeit later) to Germany being right at the front line. Once you've decided that you need the Germans as partners, which you do once you've seen the writing on the wall, you have to let them ''be'' partners. Part of this is allowing them out of counterproductive treaty obligations, and integrating their rebuilt armed forces into your alliance's force structure. When it turns out the German commander is the best (and it'd probably take some convincing to get the French, much less any of the other allies, on board with this) he's the guy in charge. |
| 281 | ** Agreed with the above. It is very, VERY obvious that Versailles and the League of Nations and the other restrictions upon the German military went out the window VERY quickly shortly after the Soviet steamroller got rolling again under Stalin. That, and the extreme likelyhood (judging from the borders of Poland encompassing East Prussia and the Oder-Niesse Line) that the Soviets carried out a limited war of aggression against Germany before Western retaliation stopped their advance at the river frontlines. That would have been VERY much the key to the Western Allies that it would be absolutely idiotic to NOT remove the restrictions from Versailles, given not merely the mutual Soviet threat, but the likely backlash against the Western Allies not allowing the Germans to arm after a clear case of aggression by the Soviets. That, and the Western Allies (who would still have been the core of the Allies- the inclusion of Germany, Spain, Portugal, and Austria nonwithstanding) probably had already identified Von Esling beforehand, most likely if he fit a model of what they were looking for in a German leader (WWI experience, moderate- or at least doesn't feel like challenging the West to a rematch-, and well liked). They would have been fools to not use him. |
| 282 | ** Also, remember in that in real world history, much of Nazi Germany's military build up wasn't technically in violation of the Treaty of Versailles. And even though Hitler is erased, all of the other people who played a role in building Nazi Germany's military capabilities were still very much alive and kicking, albeit presumably less evil than their counterparts in the original timeline. It's entirely conceivable that many of them still managed to get into their positions of power in [=RA1=]'s timeline and similarly circumvent the treaty, with the possible justifications of self-defense and economic recovery. |
| 283 | |
| 284 | [[/folder]] |
| 285 | |
| 286 | [[folder:Time travelling]] |
| 287 | |
| 288 | * Since the Allies are the proprietors of time travelling technology, why didn't they kill Stalin before he came to power (or, even better, stop communism from taking over Russia)? Also why didn't they undo the Soviet time travelling to kill Einstein? Or for that matter, keep on fiddling with the time machine until the Allies land in an AlternativeTimeline in which they rule the world? Seriously, there is so much that time travelling could accomplish, that it could render the wielder of the time machine nigh-omnipotence. |
| 289 | ** The Allies liked their current timeline(with them ''winning'' and all), realized that using the time machine could result in many unpleasant changes and that they should only use it as a last case scenario. They're probably also cautious, using Time Travel to mess with time doesn't end up with the scenario you wanted in this series. Then the Soviets got their own machine up and running before the Allies could find out about it. Once the soviets killed Einstein the [=RA2=] Allies couldn't stop them anymore, due to being the [=RA3=] Allies now, or in the previous timeline unable to effect the [=RA3=] timeline as far as I know. The Allies in the [=RA3=] timeline didn't have Einstein make them a time machine so unless it's in the [=RA3=] expansion pack which I didn't get, nothing point to them being able to head backwards in time in the new timeline besides some chrono tech which doesn't mean they have something that can go backwards any further than Tanya's belt can. |
| 290 | ** I don't think Einstein ever invented a real time machine in the [=RA1=] timeline. The Chronosphere, despite its name, only acts as a teleporter. Einstein didn't get around to inventing a working time machine in the RA timeline until Yuri's Revenge, where it was used very quickly when they realised what Yuri had done. |
| 291 | |
| 292 | [[/folder]] |
| 293 | |
| 294 | [[folder:Yuriko's appearance]] |
| 295 | |
| 296 | * Why did they not want to show what Yuriko looks like? Everyone else got an actor and a couple of scenes, all Yuriko got was some artwork, a voice actor, and one shot from behind. Did they run out of budget and couldn't afford one more actor? |
| 297 | ** To make her more mysterious. |
| 298 | ** Even though we know what her face looks like from the artwork, and what she sounds like, and her entire backstory? |
| 299 | *** They did show what she looks like, then. I figure it's because they couldn't make her function particularly relevant to the story (Natasha and Tanya, by comparison, both function like elite guerillas, so they can be showcased accordingly) and didn't want to retool her, so they just left her as a unit. |
| 300 | |
| 301 | [[/folder]] |
| 302 | |
| 303 | [[folder:Soviet nukes]] |
| 304 | |
| 305 | * How did the Soviets get access to nuclear weapons before the Allies? Between Einstein, Oppenheimer, and Fermi (and without Nazi Germany), it seems that Western Europe would get nukes first. And how do the Soviets monopolize Tesla technology, from a guy who was born in Croatia and had U.S. citizenship by 1891? (On the other hand, if they had made an [[RuleOfCool Austro-Hungarian Empire with Tesla Coils...]]) The V2 and V3 rocket technology is a little more forgivable. A little. |
| 306 | ** The Soviets captured Einstein at the beginning of Red Alert 1, and it's implied that Einstein helped the Soviets invent the nuke. The other physicists probably didn't have any impact, due to all of the time manipulation messing everything up. |
| 307 | ** The AllThereInTheManual explanation for Tesla is that the NKVD broke into his office and carted off what must have been a few metric tons of material and documentation before Tesla got wise and called Western intelligence down to causterize that particular intelligence leak. As for the others, [[ChessMaster Kane.]] |
| 308 | ** There was no need for the Manhattan Project if Hitler did not exist to start a world war, and Germany would have had no need for the "Vergeltungswaffen" until they realized war was upon them, and by the time Stalin began his campaign against Europe his researchers and spies would likely already have been working on building potent new weapons. Case in point the Sarin gas that had just been tested at the start of the Soviet campaign being one of Stalin's many horrific aces he kept up his sleeve. |
| 309 | ** Einstein didn't have to be the one to invent the nuke. And who's to say that upon seeing it's power, the Allies didn't immediately swear off the technology, only for the Soviets to snag the designs? |
| 310 | |
| 311 | [[/folder]] |
| 312 | |
| 313 | [[folder:Great bear trap]] |
| 314 | |
| 315 | * Here's something that's bugged me for a while. In the "Great bear trap" mission in Red Alert 3 for the Allies where you go to Cuba, the mission depicts the Soviets as having their Kirov's carrying massive bombs which apparently could take out an entire city if you let one through. But at the same time, the fact that NO ONE has nukes anymore without Einstein in Red Alert 3 is mentioned in the opening cinematic. I guess they could be a [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_all_bombs Father of All Bombs]], but while that would doubtlessly do some real damage it wouldn't be able to destroy a city the way a nuke would, could it? |
| 316 | ** They may not have nukes per se, but they have the vacuum imploder, which is also a massively destructive weapon with a warhead delivery system. The ones shown ingame hardly have a city-sized blast radius, but then again neither did the nuke, because the ability to destroy entire cities is a GameBreaker. It's not too much of a stretch that a full-size "black hole bomb" could do some major damage if you dropped it on Times Square. |
| 317 | ** Also the soviets have the scientist who invented the time machine and being from the original timeline he knows nukes are possible. Maybe he reinvented them. |
| 318 | ** I thought this was the canon explanation. They just re-invented nukes. It just took time to get the parts machined and the material refined. |
| 319 | |
| 320 | [[/folder]] |
| 321 | |
| 322 | [[folder:Red Alert 2 USA]] |
| 323 | |
| 324 | * Why does Red Alert 2 focus on the United States so much? Red Alert was about Joseph Stalin's attempt to conquer the Eurasian landmass, not America. The USA are not even mentioned at any point in the game, their backing of the Allies is merely an assumption. For all the game tells us, the USA could still have been deeply isolationist by the time the Soviet Union falls to the Allies/Britain falls to the Soviets. They would not be a threat to them, nor would there be a proper motive for revenge if the Europeans are the ones who captured Moscow and killed Stalin. |
| 325 | ** Apparently, the US entered the war on the Allied side at some point and were involved in the final Allied victory at the battle of Moscow. The two GIs who find Stalin under the rubble are clearly Americans. |
| 326 | |
| 327 | |
| 328 | [[/folder]] |
| 329 | |
| 330 | [[folder:Soviets in Red Alert 2]] |
| 331 | |
| 332 | * Why does the Soviet Union even exist in Red Alert 2? [[DirtyCommies Given the opinion on the Soviet Union at the time]], Western leaders would have done everything within their power to dismantle it, [[BalkanizeMe liberate the constituent republics]] and make Russia into a federation or else install a new Tsar to forestall a communist resurgence. Instead they not only leave it intact, according to the maps on the intermission loading screens the Soviet Union was awarded even more land in the peace agreement and it's left in the hands of the last Tsar's heir who should not only have been [[TemporalParadox dead before Einstein erased Hitler from time]], but has somehow been allowed to lead the Communist Party. The same group that killed his entire family! Is this [[OurPresidentsAreDifferent President Dugan's]] idea of a good peace? |
| 333 | ** It's implied Romanov is more of a puppet government than anything else. At least until Yuri shows up. |
| 334 | |
| 335 | [[/folder]] |
| 336 | |
| 337 | [[folder:Dominators]] |
| 338 | |
| 339 | * Why are the psychic dominators in the Soviet campaign in Yuri's Revenge in different locations than the Allied campaign? The allied campaign depicts the 2nd two as the same locations as the opening FMV, but the Soviet one has them in different places. For that matter, why are Yuri's plans in both campaigns completely different? I know the developers didn't want to reuse the same maps for both campaigns, but can anybody come with an in-universe reason? |
| 340 | ** Yuri may have altered the Psychic Dominator network once he found out the future commander and Romanov were on to him, the Alcatraz Dominator being the only one under construction prior to the arrival of the future commander. Placing the Dominator in London or Romania, where it could affect Moscow and the majority of the Allied countries would be a risk worth taking if it placed both factions under Yuri's control, even if the locations would have been much harder to defend than Egypt and Antarctica. In the Allied campaign however, he could at least expect the Soviets to continue occupying the Allies' attention and wouldn't have to fear for his safety if he remained in Moscow, as Romanov would keep him around and safe for as long as it would take the future Allies to convince the world of Yuri's treachery. So Yuri could carry on his original plan. |
| 341 | ** It's implied that he didn't get the specs quite right until he set them off just before the jump back, so he probably had basic structures in various areas testing to see where he'd get the best results. In the original [=RA2=] timeline, the Allies had no idea what was going on because they'd been distracted by the invasion. The Soviets didn't know because they figured it was all part of the plan, and the Premier's shadowy advisor assured them it was all okay. All part of the plan. The Allies specifically targeting Yuri's work would have raised awareness amongst the Soviets and started bringing up uncomfortable questions. |
| 342 | |
| 343 | [[/folder]] |
| 344 | |
| 345 | [[folder:Finale level Amsterdam]] |
| 346 | |
| 347 | * Any idea why the final level for the Empire of the Rising Sun's vanilla campaign is set in Amsterdam? This justification in game, but is than any real life significance that would have someone make that a final level for someone trying to take over the world? |
| 348 | ** I've forgotten about the exact details of the Empire's conquest progress and I can't read minds and know exactly, but from a military standpoint there's a certain sense in making Amsterdam the last bastion of resistance. This place has been strategically connected and important for centuries as one of the premier Western imperial capitals on the planet, with a nice combination of sea access, easy reach of fertile fields for crops, being on the trade routes for valuables it doesn't have naturally, and an insanely good defense. Amsterdam and most of the Northern Netherlands is protected by the sea on one side and from a whole slew of rivers that would be difficult enough to cross with an army normally protecting the inland approaches. Which are then further reinforced by what are probably the world's most prolonged and intense series of fortifications, and if you set things up juust right like the Dutch have you can basically flood those already formidable nets of rivers and turn the Northern Netherlands into an honorary island surrounded by water and forts every which way. Those advantages meant it's a natural place for the Allies to make their last stand and try to literally buy time; they know the Japanese aren't going to be stopped by those obstacles after conquering the rest of the planet, but at least they can hope to put them off balance and keep them off until Zelinsky can make all the Empire's progress moot. |
| 349 | |
| 350 | [[/folder]] |
| 351 | |
| 352 | [[folder:Helicopters]] |
| 353 | |
| 354 | * Are the helicopter sprites from Red Alert 1 mixed up? The Longbow, [[AKA47 presumably the Apache Longbow]], has a more rounded appearance in game with round cockpit dome, whereas the Soviet Hind helicopter uses a more angular looking sprite and cockpit glass. |
| 355 | |
| 356 | [[/folder]] |
| 357 | |
| 358 | '''Generals series''' |
| 359 | [[folder:Generals GLA]] |
| 360 | |
| 361 | * Question about Command and Conquer Generals (don't say "oh that game does not matter it sucks." ITS AN AWESOME GAME!): If the GLA are some sort of radical islamist terrorist organization working to drive the Chinese and US out of the middle east and central asia, then why do they seem more like some sort of alliance of Arab nations, or a nation in of itself? I understand that they are well funded and well organized, and I can understand them obtaining things like bombs, machine guns, trucks, and RPG's, but where the hell did they get tanks, SCUD launchers, anthrax, ICBM's, a few planes (when you use the anthrax bomb), and even a truck with a nuke loaded on it (in the first level of the chinese campaign)?. They also occupy cities, are run with immense efficiency and organization, and apparently have the man power and resources to invade Europe, and Europe is helpless to stop them. They must have had a TON of soldiers, and a lot of ships and planes to transport them from the middle east. |
| 362 | ** The GLA is a sort of NGOSuperpower. Most of their equipment is Cold War-era tech (we'll ignore that their anti-tank weaponary is horribly out of date and useless against current gen tanks), which they've acquired through black market contacts and some kind of unspecified "backers" who fund the organization - they're the ones who supply the money you get with the General power that pays you per-kill. Most of the money they get appears to come through criminal enterprises (we'll ignored that that shouldn't give nearly enough money to do the stuff that the do). Also, the GLA has a pretty wide reach, as they've got elements active from Somalia through western China, and the numbers to operate openly in all of these areas. I believe the GLA is less a "terrorist" organization and more of an extremely powerful stateless organization that controls most of Central Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa. |
| 363 | ** To answer the nuclear bomb truck question: They stole it from the nearby nuclear bunker which the Chinese commander destroys at the end of the mission. |
| 364 | ** The GLA's Scorpion Tank looks a lot like a Soviet T-26 tank. That tank was already obsolete in ''World War II''!!! Where in the world would the GLA be able to find that many antiques in 2020? |
| 365 | ** They built their own. Just because the TANKS are hard to find doesn't mean the blueprints are hard to find. Also, if they could get their hands on one, they could reverse engineer it and start making them. The reason they can't do this with the other tanks they can steal is because 1: they don't have the time, 2: They don't have all the right parts (complex electronics, nuclear fuel, all the tons of metal, etc) or 3: They're too slow/unadaptable/expensive. |
| 366 | |
| 367 | [[/folder]] |
| 368 | |
| 369 | [[folder:Particle Cannon satellite]] |
| 370 | |
| 371 | * I haven't played Generals in years (its coming by mail right now so I can play it again), but I remember something that bugs me. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLDN-TjNeG4&feature=related The]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kZU6o3v5EY&feature=related third]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u31EmnpgMs&feature=related GLA]] mission in Zero Hour. I get the idea and I remember enjoying it. Capture a super weapon to destroy an aircraft carrier. But why didn't America shut off the particle cannon satellite? They clearly knew that the GLA could fire it, so why not shut it off? |
| 372 | ** The Particle Cannon fires from the ground and reflects from orbital satellites. Although this then leads to the question of why any satellites in the area weren't rerouted or self-destructed... |
| 373 | ** No time. By the time anyone realized that the particle cannon was captured instead of destroyed in the mass GLA assault, it would already have been fired. |
| 374 | ** The GLA were in control of the cannon. It's hard to shut off something that you no longer have anyone in position to turn it off with. |
| 375 | |
| 376 | [[/folder]] |
| 377 | |
| 378 | [[folder:Generals finale]] |
| 379 | |
| 380 | * Does anyone else think the finale of the Generals storyline would have made much more sense if the battleground had been in East Africa instead of frickin' Germany? Now, I know the GLA is powerful and all, being an NGOSuperpower, but the nations of Europe would not just sit around and let an organization like that destroy them to the extent that the U.S. military presence in Europe would be forced to evacuate and then have to cry to China to come help them. Had the GLA focused their efforts on driving the U.S. out of Africa instead of Europe, we'd get a much more plausible plot, especially considering that there was already a U.S. mission in Zero Hour about the defense of Somalia from GLA forces (HarsherInHindsight, considering that Zero Hour came out in 2003 and the U.S. [[RealLife really did]] fight an Islamic terror group in Somalia under similar circumstances in late 2006). Yet another bonus: China has strong economic interests in Africa, so they'd have plenty of reason to get involved if the GLA did indeed drive out the U.S. from there. |
| 381 | ** There's no real explanation for this other than that [[VocalMinority some people complained about the USA being the heroes in Generals,]] and the developers apparently thought turning the western nations into incompetent oafs and turning China into the next superpower would make them shut up. |
| 382 | |
| 383 | [[/folder]] |
| 384 | |
| 385 | [[folder:SCUD Storm]] |
| 386 | |
| 387 | * This always bugged me about Generals: In the first mission of the USA Campaign, after both of the GLA's armored columns are destroyed, they fire a SCUD Storm at the middle of Baghdad, killing hundreds of civilians and a few of their own soldiers. Why did they do that? Why didn't they instead aim it at the USA's base just outside the city? It's not like the player needed it from an in-game prospective. Were they trying to slow the USA's advance through the city by covering it in poison? If they were, they were pretty stupid because the US Forces consisted of tanks and planes, which anthrax would've had no effect on. So what gives? Was GLA intel from their mountain base just that bad? |
| 388 | ** They didn't know where the base was, and never had troops in position to precisely locate it. So they settled for bombing the approach with the SCUD storm int he hopes of delaying the US advance. |
| 389 | ** But they obviously knew where the American tanks were- why didn't they just fire on them? |
| 390 | ** They must have expected the Americans to be stupider than wall paint and drive right into Baghdad instead of stopping so that they'd be caught in the bombardment. Think of it as the GLA aiming their shot. And missing. |
| 391 | |
| 392 | [[/folder]] |
| 393 | |
| 394 | [[folder:Three Gorges dam]] |
| 395 | |
| 396 | * Why the hell do the Chinese blow up the Three Gorges dam, that supplies a 1/10 their country's electricity, and probably supply more by the time the game is set given that they keep adding to it. The mission should have them defending it. |
| 397 | ** To flood the massive GLA army threatening their position, as clearly stated in the cutscene prior. |
| 398 | ** It's also pretty heavily implied that this was a horrible idea and a last-ditch measure done by the soldiers that were there without permission (that they most certainly wouldn't have gotten). Seems to be a matter of GodzillaThreshold. |
| 399 | ** The knowledge they could blame it on the GLA afterwards. |
| 400 | ** There's a Scorpion Tank attacking the Dam. The original plot is to destroy the GLA Base on lower ground then have your army washed away. |
| 401 | |
| 402 | [[/folder]] |
| 403 | |
| 404 | [[folder:Battlemaster tank]] |
| 405 | |
| 406 | * Why is the Battlemaster tank in ''Generals'' modeled after the Type-80 tank and not the Type-99, the former was considered obsolete long before this game was made. |
| 407 | ** The same reason that the GLA uses 1930 era tanks instead of much more plausible 60's and 70's era Soviet tanks, or why the Type-80 and the aformentioned 1930's tanks have any effect on the modern US M1 Abrams tanks; because the developers weren't concerned with accuracy. A lot of things about General's art style don't make sense. |
| 408 |
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