History Fridge / StarWars

** This was my idea on the "Balance" view of things, and it's a bit of an amalgamation of more than a couple of views stated above... I always applied the Taoist/Buddhist basis for the Jedi religion/philosophy rather strictly. Both Yin and Yang are necessary in complement to create balance within the universe, for without one the other cannot be defined - if one is diminished and the other over-reaching, the more heavily weighed side will start to corrupt/decompose in order to bring back the level balance. However, at the time of the Phantom Menace, the Sith - who were pure NeutralEvil - were only two, while the Jedi were in the hundreds. In essence the "light" side representatives of the force seriously out-weighed the dark side, and because of this, the Jedi order itself had become unstable, aligned with a corrupt government, blinded to the corruption taking place in a society they were sworn to protect, complacent and stagnant after thousands of years of stasis and a lack of growth. In themselves, the Jedi had begun to crumble and distort, deviating from the way they had prescribed for themselves and bound by a system of social and democratic governance that was in itself in decay. When the prophecy said that the Chosen One would bring "balance" back to the force, it didn't say "destroy the evil side so that the light side would reign supreme", it said bring back ''balance'' - an equal interplay of good and evil that was based on an equality of purpose so one side could define the other. Hence that is ''exactly what Anakin did''. First off, he destroyed the Jedi order, nearly eradicating all Jedi from the face of the universe, and neatly decimating the "good" or light side of the equation, bringing the evil or dark side into prominence, then he did the same with the ''dark'' side as well when it became overbearing and on the point of dominance. He brought both over-reaching weights on both good and evil back down to subliminal balance. Then after he was gone, Luke was left with a galaxy with a healthy representation of uncorrupted good, but still one with strong remnants of a clear and present evil. And that battle between good and evil is fought out and debated over the expanded universe beyond the events of episode 6. In effect, ''Anakin fulfilled the prophecy right down to the letter''. I only wished he could have done it without the excessive angsting that happened in episode III. Hope that makes sense, but that's just my view. ~ @/{{13secondspastmidnight}}

* The "no attachments" policy of the Jedi has come under fire from fans. However, consider the universe the Jedi live in. They have superpowers, which they get from the Force. The Force has a Dark Side, which, if a Jedi yields to it, can twist their personality and values system to such an extent that they will immediately start butchering helpless children and kill the very person they were trying to save. And the Dark Side is accessed not through brainwashing, torture, drugs, or some kind of implant, but simply through the Jedi's ''own feelings''. And some of the strongest and messiest negative feelings stem from attachments -- jealousy, fear, grief, and the like. The resultant world the Jedi live in is one where relationship drama or grief at the loss of a loved one could conceivably send an ordinary Force Sensitive -- already a OneManArmy against Muggles -- on a homicidal rampage. Thus, although the Jedi arguably go too far (and their lifestyle is not really conducive to eschewing attachments anyway), their wariness regarding attachments is not without foundation.

** Vade is also a verb which means "vanish." Darth Vader, in other words, is esteemed so powerful that he figuratively makes his enemies disappear. The name also implies everyone's belief that Anakin Skywalker is [[FromACertainPointOfView dead]], vanished, and further, Palpatine's apparent failure to remember why he turned in the first place--for the sake of his prospective family. When he learnt that they were still alive, Anakin resurfaced, and it was Vader who faded away.

* Stop and consider for a brief moment the fact that nobody bothered to tell Luke was Vader's son. Essentially, Obi-Wan and Yoda had set up Luke to kill his father without ever knowing the truth. He might have even gone further down the Oedipus Rex path if he'd married Leia!

* Fridge/HandOfThrawn

* [[Fridge/ObiWanKenobi Obi-Wan Kenobi]]
* [[Fridge/{{Andor}} Andor]]

* [[Fridge/TheMandalorian The Mandalorian]]
* [[Fridge/TheBookOfBobaFett The Book of Boba Fett]]

* All Jedi are world-class {{Deadpan Snarker}}s. The reason for this is quite obvious: being trained to distance themselves from emotion, their main reaction towards pretty much anything can only be unfazed cynicism, their humor being an expression of basically not being able to react with happiness, fear or anger. At the same time, the Sith seem to be taking everything way too seriously.

* The "no attachments" policy of the Jedi has come under fire from fans, and it is indeed inhuman. However, consider the universe the Jedi live in. They have superpowers, which they get from the Force. The Force has a Dark Side, which, if a Jedi yields to it, can twist their personality and values system to such an extent that they will immediately start butchering helpless children and kill the very person they were trying to save. And the Dark Side is accessed not through brainwashing, torture, drugs, or some kind of implant, but simply through the Jedi's ''own feelings''. And some of the strongest and messiest negative feelings stem from attachments -- jealousy, fear, grief, and the like. The resultant world the Jedi live in is one where relationship drama or grief at the loss of a loved one could conceivably send an ordinary Force Sensitive -- already a OneManArmy against Muggles -- on a homicidal rampage. Thus, although the Jedi arguably go too far (and their lifestyle is not really conducive to eschewing attachments anyway), their wariness regarding attachments is not without foundation.

* A lot of people probably wondered why the Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy seemed like a bunch of ineffectual, pompous, self-righteous, hypocritical jerks as apposed to the stalwart defenders of the innocent and warriors against evil they were stated to be in the legends. The reason is because by the time of the clone wars, the Jedi Order was on the decline. Since they thought the Sith were gone, they believed that they only has to deal with the mundane problems of Muggles rather than fights between sci-fi [[MagicKnight magic knights]]. They stopped going out looking for evil because they believed that normal crime was something the republic could handle and they couldn't be arsed to get out of their temples to handle it. Had they gone out and been TheKnightErrant and fought all types of evil and crime, they might have gotten wise to the sith scheme to take over the universe sooner. Also, they got more and more entangled with the republic's affairs and came to rely on the republic as patrons too much worrying about public opinion and reprisals from government bodies that they actually just became and extension of the republic. They would even sell out one of their own on circumstantial evidence that have the republic be mad at them. Not to mention stuff like taking force sensitive children from their families because they, the Jedi, [[SarcasmMode obviously knew better than the families of said children.]] In fact it was that whole "we're Jedi, we know better than all of you" attitude that really showcased their pride and arrogance. By the time of the prequels, we weren't looking at a BadassArmy of [[SpaceWizard space]] [[ThePaladin paladins]]. We were looking at church full of self-righteous ascetics that got soft in peaceful times [[TradeYourPassionForGlory and were content practicing the tenets of their religion rather than adhere to the spirit of that religion.]]

* I just noticed something about the titles of the Star Wars films. Compare:

* At first I thought the midichlorians in ''StarWars'' was a stupid way to explain away the Force. But then I realized that ''StarWars'' is a combination of science fiction and fantasy, with your wizards flying in starships and whatnot. So, the magic of the Force having scientific roots is very fitting, and it explains why everybody in the StarWars universe doesn't use the Force, because they can't. Even then, the Force is not generated by the midichlorians, the Force is still that mystical energy that surrounds and binds us, but the best way for humans to use it is to quiet your mind and listen to your midichlorians, who just happen to be the best conductors of the energetic Force. -{{washington213}}

*** I agree with this full-heartedly. Midichlorians make things far, FAR worse. Because how do THEY interact with the force? And how do they share that interaction with the living beings? What of force spirits and places with Force "imprint", like the dark cave on Dagobah? Midichlorians not only answer nothing, they only make hand-waving the Force (pun POSSIBLY intended :P) more difficult.

** Except the "andr" in ''android'' comes from the Greek word for ''man'', and the "oid" means ''like''. So it would mean robots in the StarWars universe are so called because of their resemblance to the letters "d" and "r" - brilliance!
** Possibly the term "droid" was adopted because robots that look like humans are called "androids", while robots that look like other major ''StarWars'' races are called "____oids", whatever suits the race in question. If a few of those _____s happen to end in "dr" also, then "droids" would be a logical slang term to encompass both human-like and other robotic designs.
* Up until ROTS, this troper used to think Vader's black lenses were [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin just that]]. But as his mask is being lowered, we see the lenses show red and black LCD. Red and black were the two dominant colors of Mustafar, so as Vader, Anakin sees the world looking just like the one which changed him forever. It lends a greater impact to his line "Let me look on you with my own eyes".

* I realized something about the OT: Luke's first and last spoken lines in the OT have to do with choice. In ''ANH'', when we first meet Luke, his Aunt Beru asks him to remind him to tell his Uncle Owen to make sure a translator droid can speak Bocce, to which Luke says "Doesn't look like we have much of a choice, but I'll remind him". And towards the end of ''[=ROTJ=]'', he says "Father, I won't leave you" as his redeemed father Anakin dies.
* There is one very powerful theme that crosses almost the entire saga and can only be fully understood by putting both trilogies together. In Episode III Obi-Wan suggests that he raises Luke himself while Yoda says no, that he should be raised outside of the Jedi life. This is elaborated more in the novelization, where Yoda believes that he lost the duel with Sidious because he had spent his life trying to hold on to past Jedi tradition while the Sith learned to evolve. In the case of Anakin, the Jedi life was forced upon him and he constantly resented it (taken away from his mother, forbidden from marrying Padme, etc). Because of this, whenever he made a personal choice he was always worried of the backlash. In the case of Luke, when offered the chance to leave Tatooine he told Obi-Wan that he has responsibilities on the farm. Obi-Wan's reply (with a distinct sense of regret) was "You must do what you feel is right." And when Luke approached Yoda, the little guy practically made Luke beg to be trained, to ensure that he wasn't going to go at it half-assed. Because of this, whenever Luke made a personal choice he always seemed to do so with resolve and dedication. And then in the ExpandedUniverse Luke's new Jedi Order emphasized the importance of evolution and learning over ancient tradition. The ''StarWars'' saga is a message about the dangers of blind tradition and the importance of personal choice. George Lucas said he wanted to tell his story, and this is what it is.

** ''Film/TheLastJedi'' hits this theme too, from a different angle. Luke chose to model his new Jedi on the old Jedi, and succeeded only in emulating their fatal flaw. Rey chooses to recreate Luke redeeming Vader, and only gives Kylo Ren the opening to kill Snoke and entrench himself deeper in the Dark Side. Kyle Ren is chastised for choosing to be nothing more than a Darth Vader wannabe, so chooses to what Vader never did: kill his Master and take his place. Poe had the choice between sticking to his post and following orders or cooking up a maverick scheme, his maverick scheme nearly gets everyone killed. The CentralTheme is failure... but what is failure but a choice that didn't pan out? Get back up, and ''learn to make better choices''.
* I came to this conclusion last summer when I was big into my conspiracy theory Orwellian "People are Sheep" etc. phase: We're meant to hate Jar Jar. He represents the stupid, uninformed masses who come in and frak up democracy by voting without any real opinion of what's going on. He gets quilted into giving his support to Palpatine because it makes him feel good, just like how so many voters choose the candidate who "feels" like they've got everyone's best interests in mind. Jar Jar's single vote sets us on the path that will kill off the last, lingering vestiges of democracy in the Old Republic. Think of what we've seen him doing in the past. He's a clumsy backwater hick who gets kicked exiled for causing massive chaos with his own clumsiness. Then he gets picked up by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and for the rest of the movie, we can barely make it 20 minutes without some new scene of Jar Jar clumsily making gigantic messes of parts shops or armies. And yet, for some reason, this buffoon is who we trust the entire fate of democracy to. Hmmm.... ~UnitedShoes37
* George Lucas was inspired by many things in creating Star Wars: the old Buck Rogers serials, Joseph Campbell books on mythology, Japanese Samurai movies like ''The Hidden Fortress'' on so on. It just occurred to me that Lucas may also have been inspired by Medieval tales like the King Arthur legend as well: The union of Anakin is Padme is that of a knight (a Jedi Knight) and a lady (Queen-turned-senator), and Palpatine is in effect an evil sorcerer of sorts. Obi-Wan perhaps played the Merlin role, as did Yoda.

* I just had a stroke of possible FridgeBrilliance while reading through these Star Wars Fridge Brilliances. It's an ironic twist that love is what causes Anakin to fall to the Dark Side (and more ironic that this leads to him killing his love), while love is what brings him back to the light at the end of the series. Consider this: plenty of times throughout the EU, Vader is shown to loathe himself, and the reason is obvious. ''He killed the only woman he ever loved.'' Hence the annoying Big No at the end of Revenge of the Sith. This was his own personal hell that he had created for himself: to always remember that he ruined his own life by killing his love. Then, about 21 years later, he sees his son in a position that echoed Padme's hauntingly. Pleading for Anakin to save him while in agony from a Dark Side attack. Luke had tried to turn him back to the Light since they first met in ''Return of the Jedi'', but it isn't until his son is put in that situation that he does. I think that's what did it; not just that his son, the only thing of Padme he had left, was in mortal danger, but he was forcibly reminded of the time he failed her and he couldn't bear to allow it to happen again.

* This bothered me for the longest time. I used to think Vader was an incredibly dumb character, mostly because he is so inconsistent in his actions. One minute he is a loving, caring, albeit obsessive husband who wants to protect those he cares about, and next he's murdering children. His psychological transformation into Vader was sudden and not fully explained. I used to chalk this up to simply Lucas's crappy writing. But then I began researching psychological disorders, and I stumbled across Borderline Personality Disorder, a mental state in which people tend to have varying extremes of emotion, reason and the like. They can't seem to decide on a single core personality. And then it hit me at last: this is Anakin's problem! He's got BPD! A scientific explanation for his all-over-the-place behavior! This explains how he could be trying to fight Luke one second, and then suddenly switches sides and kills Palpatine. His mind is just wired that way. Similar to bipolar disorder, actually. If Lucas actually had BPD in mind when he created Vader (and Anakin), then he is more brilliant than I could have ever expected of him, and has created one of the most complex and psychologically fascinating characters of all time. -Unnamed Troper.

* Also, I'm not sure if this was already mentioned here, (and it's not exactly easy to look through the list) but I think it's arguably FridgeBrilliance that when it comes to lightsaber colours, Qui-Gon uses green, Obi-Wan uses blue, and Luke Skywalker uses blue in Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack and green in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. [[spoiler:Also, Qui-Gon was more trusting of Anakin than Obi-Wan was, much like how Luke was more trusting of Vader in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'' than he was in Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack.]]

* Lots of people complain about the Jedi using the clone army, saying that it is immoral and pretty stupid. And I agree. But then you ask why didn't the Republic levy troops from the hundreds of thousands of systems that belong to it? But then I realized: one of the biggest problems with the Republic was its ''corruption''. Most Republic worlds were too damn lazy and cynical to levy troops until their planet gets invaded, and wouldn't do anything after. The Republic worlds would rather use a slave army then get their hands dirty. The Jedi did something reprehensible by accepting the clones, but they've spent their entire lives serving the Republic with many in the Republic expecting them to fix their problems, and when there comes a problem that the Jedi cannot handle, the Republic still sits on its ass and compels them to sacrifice their morals to save billions of apathetic citizens from the ruthless droid armies.

** one major problem: the fall before RotS was released, Lucas photoshopped Hayden into Return of the Jedi. at least at that time, Hayden's Anakin we didn't associate with a cold-blooded wife-choking, child-slaughtering monster. but in light of RotS, If Lucas intended for this ending to be uplifting, he failed miserably.
** But you forget the fans reaction to it that small edit. Pure Hatred towards Christensen. And just in time for Revenge of the the Sith to come out.

* In the prequel trilogy, especially in Phantom Menace, much is made of Anakin's great power in the Force and how important he is as the Chosen One. Because of his general visual appeal, James Earl Jones' voice, and the admitted awesome of TheReveal in Empire, it took me a while to realize this, but... Vader's largely inconsequential throughout the series after blowing up the droids' command station in Phantom Menace. He does nothing of import during Attack of the Clones other than brashly undermining Obi-Wan. In Revenge of the Sith, he kills children, chokes his wife, and gets crippled. In the original trilogy, he's a badass, sure, but we saw him as the ultimate force user for two movies straight, and had no idea there was more to it than telekinesis and hypnosis (the latter of which he never used). Jedi shows the real big bad, and Vader does kill him, but... ultimately, isn't Vader just a visually-impressive Dragon to Palpatine, and for all his purported power, he just throws junk at Luke and force-chokes stuffy Brits who annoy him. Power? What power?
** The power was what Anakin could have been and was supposed to become, but never did. He was going to be the super-end all force user...which was why Palpatine was after him to be his apprentice, and why he put Order 66 in place the moment he had Anakin on his side. He knew that with Anakin as his apprentice, rounding up the Jedi would be no problem...which we see in that he destroyed the Jedi Temple on his own (which a squad of troopers - well known Jedi bait). Unfortunately, what Palpatine did not see coming was that Obi-Wan was going to defeat Anakin and reduce him to a (literal)half-man shell of what he once was...and what he was going to be. Obi-Wan was able to destroy Anakin's potential right there on Mustafar. If we accept that the number of midichlorians determines force power...if you lose half your body, you lose half your midichlorians. Every time a Jedi or Sith loses a limb it reduces their power level. Ironically, the Darth Vader of the original trilogy is a crippled and defeated old man in a walking iron lung who is not nearly as powerful as Palpatine thought he was going to be - but since most of all the other force-users are dead...he is a bad-ass. Vader's reduced capacity might also be why the Rebels were able to survive to cause so much trouble. Perhaps in Palpatine's original visions, his apprentice, fully-powered Vader, would have been able to sniff them out and destroy them utterly. It is also the reason why Palpatine was so eager for Luke to kill Vader and become the new Sith apprentice...Luke (and Leia) have that same potential to become just as powerful as Anakin would have. - BadSintax

*** Maybe because many of the aliens in Star Wars universe are actually able to reason with others, develop a code of ethics, culture and political system just like us humans? Really, the only difference between humans and aliens in Star Wars is perhaps limited to appearance and natural habitat. It is much more about racism in real life instead of animal rights. People in Star Wars (both humans and aliens) eat the meat, wear the fur, and experiment on other less evolved species too you know.

* For a long time, the idea of "spice mines" seemed to be just a bit of silliness I quietly ignored. Mining spices? How ridiculous can you get? Then I realized that far from being stupid, it's perfectly reasonable. The most common spice in the world is salt, and do we get salt? From mines!

*** You can thank the EU for that. Using just the films, the 'spice mine' phrase isn't ridiculous, as said above. I'm pretty sure 'spice' could have its mundane meaning in Star Wars. It is a slang term, not an actual name.

* Upon rewatching all six movies, it becomes clear that Anakin, by and large, was correct about the Jedi: they WERE keeping him back (Ep II showed that Yoda was aware of Anakin's brush with the dark side, if not the slaughter of the Tusken in specific); the Jedi HAD compromised their stated values (attempting to abuse Palpatine's favor of Anakin, and later Windu's decision for summary execution instead of due process); and the order's stodgy reliance on tradition and denial of emotion is part of what allowed the Sith to seize power virtually unopposed (for all Yoda's warnings of fear, he'd apparently given Anakin plenty of reason to hide both the Tusken slaughter and his marriage to Padme, out of fear of what the order would do). He was only wrong about Obi -Wan's personal loyalty. Moreover, not only is Luke successful without Jedi dogma indoctrinated into him, he succeeds despite the manipulations of his mentors: Obi-Wan's attempt to protect Luke by hiding Vader's true nature, while well-intentioned, was no longer necessary after the first movie, and outright endangered Luke in the second. Likewise, when Yoda tells Luke that the ideals of the rebellion matter more than the lives of Luke's friends, Luke ultimately rejects this, leading directly to gaining the knowledge he needed to defeat the Sith. Finally, both Yoda and Obi-Wan attempt to convince Luke that Vader's evil is monolithic, remembering from personal experience how Anakin's fall led him to murder children and his own wife. When Luke tried anyway, not out of a plan for the rebellion or an abstract philosophy, but out of genuine concern for his father, Luke not only redeemed Anakin, he also proved the falsehood of the Jedi Order's self-denial practices.

* Everybody--and This Troper used to fall into this camp--laughed their collective behinds off when Han Solo stated in ''StarWars Episode IV: A New Hope'' that he'd made the Kessel Run "in under twelve parsecs". However, his comment that misrouting the hyperdrive could send one into a supernova or something comparable stuck with him. Eventually, This Troper realized that Han wasn't making up random technobabble--he was stating that his hyperdrive could find more efficient or daring routes!

** Here's one I had: The Kessel run explanation is a microcosm of what went wrong with Star Wars. The original scripts and acting make it clear that Han is bluffing. Later, a technical explanation was cooked up by fans and official adopted as "canon". The focus of the movies changed from being more character-centric to being more focused on technical things like special effects and technical accuracy over thematic accuracy (No, see, Anakin *was* a great pilot when Obi-Wan met him- he was a pod racer!)

* The fact that if you do watch the movies in numerical order(Episodes I,II,III,IV,V, and VI), they do get '''better and better'''. Also, the Force, introduced in a biological, scientific way(midichlorians) is given deeper meaning when the more spiritual nature is explained later on. Science becomes "magic".

* All Jedi are world-class [[DeadpanSnarker Deadpan Snarkers]]. The reason for this is quite obvious: being trained to distance themselves from emotion, their main reaction towards pretty much anything can only be unfazed cynicism, their humor being an expression of basically not being able to react with happiness, fear or anger. At the same time, the Sith seem to be taking everything way too seriously.
* A brief one for the Special Edition of Return of the Jedi. The reason why they use Hayden Christensen's head instead of the original? ''Because that was what he looked like the last time he was truly a Jedi!''

* Rifftrax and a lot of other people have rightfully made fun of Anakin's mother's name - Shmi. I'm not defending it, but here's an interesting bit of mythology trivia: Shmi is a second half of the name Lakshmi - the name of a Hinduist goddess of happiness. You know what one of her other names is? '''Padma'''.

* While watching The Clone Wars movie just now it came to the point where Anakin and Ahsoka are coming out of hyperspace after rescuing Jabba's son and on approach to Tatooine (this is before the space battle with the two magnaguards). Anakin says something to the effect of "Tatooine, I wish I wouldn't have to see this dustball again." Followed by a prompt from Ahsoka asking about what happened and Anakin not wanting to talk about it. It came to me that this interaction is probably the very reason why Anakin never found Luke and Obi-Wan, he never approached Tatooine in the 20 years since ROTS. Now this was something I'd already known, but it's another thing that shows how clever the "Clone Wars" writers can be.

** The Revenge of the Sith novelization elucidates this. During his fight with Sidious, Yoda realizes that while the Sith have spent a thousand years since the last war growing, changing, and evolving, the Jedi have spent those same thousand years training to fight the ''last'' war. Yoda's Jedi Order just doesn't know how to combat this new Sith threat, and the fight was over before the Jedi even realized they were in one.

*** There is no need for name-calling Newton. While the Star Wars does take plenty of shortcuts with overcoming the laws of Physics, nowhere (that I know of) is there mentioned that the laws of Physics are different from our world. All the spaceships in Star Wars setting have artificial gravity for crew comfort, they serve a specific purpose. Those artificial gravity generators don't exist just because. What exactly would be the purpose of putting an artificial gravity generator into a lightsaber just to prevent it from jerking a little when the blade shuts down while not being held? That would be quite a vanity modification highly uncharacteristic of the jedi.

** Luke's utter defeat in Movie/TheEmpireStrikesBack happens also when he only knows that Vader killed his father and only sees him as an evil monster who only causes death and suffering, barely even caring about Vaders as a person at all. After the reveal that the evil monster he fought was actually his father, Luke has a breakdown and has to run away to save himself. In Movie/ReturnOfTheJedi however Luke finally comes into terms with his father's identity and past, coinciding indeed with the same time now Luke can actually beat Vader in a fight even if he does tap into the dark side a bit to do so.

* In the Star Wars universe as a whole, AlternativeCharacterInterpretation is the reason why many end up not supporting the Jedi. At first, the Jedi are painted as a peaceful, almost monk-like organization, centred around achieving balance with themselves and the universe. However, consider for a moment the following facts. The Jedi is a warrior cult who operate entirely on their own, and have nobody regulating them, other than the fact that they ''usually'' go along with what the Senate wants... except when the Jedi decide they don't like it. Now imagine that the Jedi, in the course of their "duties," have the right to search people's homes and property with no authorization, can read people's minds, ''can actually control some people's minds'', and have the right to ''kill'' people they don't approve of. Remember in episode two, when Anakin and Obi-Wan ''dismember'' a person in front of a crowd of bar-goers? "Jedi business, go back to your drinks." Sounds a lot more sinister when you consider what you've read here, doesn't it? Now consider that this cult takes people away from their homes and families as small children, so as to better brainwash them into believing their teachings. They force celibacy onto these converts before they even understand the idea of sex. They also preach the total divorce of self from personal emotions, because using one's powers in an emotional state is eeeeeeevil. Anyone who comes to the realization that these people are full of crap are promptly kicked out of the order, unless they leave of their own will. After they are kicked out, they are labelled as "Dark Jedi," because any views other than the Jedi's own are eeeeeeevil. These people also believe that "balance" in the force consists of people who believe in the application of the force in any way other than theirs being killed.

*** Worse, to the galaxy at large it looked like a case of ScrewTheRulesIHaveSupernaturalPowers Even the Jedi had no idea that Palpatine was a Sith Lord until Anakin told them when they were ''already'' on their way to his office to forcibly depose him at lightsaber point. They merely thought he was a CorruptPolitician. But acting unilaterally this way, bypassing the legislature and the judiciary of the Republic entirely, only served to make Palpatine's version of the story sound true. Since Anakin never even told Padme or anyone else, the fact that Palpatine was a Sith would take years to come out, and that he was also the secret leader of the Separatists and the instigator of the Clone Wars was never revealed at all! This would have only served to fuel propaganda about [[BewareTheSuperman the dangers of having an organization like the Jedi around]]. He could even use the same accusation that the Jedi had leveled at ''him'', claiming that they had become addicted to power during their time as generals of the Army of the Republic and that with the imminent defeat of the Separatists they had decided to seize power rather than return to their previous role as mere peacekeepers.(In Luceno's novelization, that's exactly what he told to Senate.)

** it's little wonder that the galaxy turned on them so quickly, the outsiders view of them is pretty bad. A politically powerful religious order full of near unstoppable warriors. They turn up and take young children, seemingly at random, then Induct them into their religious order. How many people would be terrified they'd turn up and take their kids away, never to be seen again, they could even convince you that you gave them up willingly!

---> '''Bodo Baas''': "In fact, the Zeison Sha made it quite clear that they oppose the concept of separating Force-sensitive infants and children from their families. Their philosophy is so centered on being able to take care of oneself and one's family, and even I must admit that most Jedi, myself included, cannot entirely comprehend this form of devotion."

** DemocracyIsBad is a recurring trope in the Star Wars saga generally, with the Senate being almost universally depicted as ineffectual and/or stupid. But even still, in ''Revenge of the Sith'' the Jedi plan to take control of the Republic after removing Palpatine speaks to the tremendous sense of self-righteousness that the Order had. They proved wholly ineffectual at preventing the Clone Wars in the first place and while their individual heroism was great, the main reason that the Separatists were defeated was because Palpatine controlled them from behind the scenes and had them stop fighting when he no longer needed the war to continue. The Jedi Council also completely failed to realize that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, despite often being in the same room with him. On what basis did they believe themselves qualified to take over the galactic government, even temporarily?

* Here's a StarWars Fridge Horror for you: Anakin Skywalker was The ChosenOne, prophesied to Bring Balance to the Force. At the time Anakin became a Jedi, there were hundreds(?) of Jedi... and [[RuleOfTwo only two Sith]] (and a few dozen, at most, Dark Jedi). So there's [[NiceJobBreakingItHero three obvious ways]] to 'balance' that imbalance: create armies of Sith/Dark Jedi, dramatically power up the existing dark-siders, or kill off the vast majority of the Jedi (which becomes FridgeBrilliance, perhaps, when you consider that at the end of both movie trilogies, there are only two Jedi left (unless you count the EU - but that would balance the Dark Jedi...) This becomes '''especially''' Horrible when you consider that either the entire Jedi council was too dumb to realize this - or that they ''did'' and ''let it happen anyway''.
** The Jedi proclaim that Fear is of the Dark Side and yet ''fear'' Love for it's potential to cause one to fall to the Dark Side. It's no wonder they seem corrupt when they have all fallen to the Dark Side without knowing it. One of Yoda's problems was an inability to acknowledge his darkness which threatened to destroy him until he acknowledged it. Even after acknowledging his inner darkness he inadvertently let it control him during Anakin's talk with him during ''Revenge of the Sith'' about the visions he had been having.
** [[WordOfGod Word of God]] says that to the Jedi, "Balance" meant eliminating all the Sith, as they were the imbalance in the Force. Yoda knew that Anakin would ultimately remove the last Sith, but didn't foresee all the horror before then.

** Supplementary materials say that it takes a long time without memory wipes to develop these behaviors. R2-D2 hadn't been memory wiped in decades, and I'm pretty sure Anakin built C-3P0 like that

* In the Star Wars Kinect game, Han Solo does his "I'm Han Solo" dance number singing how good it feels to be free from carbonite. All the while, he's standing not five feet from the carbonite freezing mechanism.
* I always thought that Anakin's turn was rushed. It seemed like one moment he was a decent moral man who had signs of jealousy and obsession and the next he was a full blown psychopath. There seemed to be no definite point where Anakin snapped and became Darth Vader, it seemed to just happen all of a sudden, like we, the audience, had missed a scene. Also Anakin's slaughter of the younglings seemed to be just something that Lucas threw in as a cheap shock and had little narrative or character value. Until I watched it today, I thought it was all just poor writing, but then it hit me. When Anakin goes to the Jedi council chamber and is confronted by younglings, a young blonde haired boy who bears a certain resemblance to a young Anakin comes forward and talks to him. The boy looks at Anakin and stands right in the spot where young Anakin stood when he was brought before the Jedi Council all those years ago. When Anakin murders the children, this is the moment where he fully "snaps" and falls completely to the dark side. Before that, Anakin was merely going through the motions, doing what he could just to save Padme's life. The murder of the younglings is his final "test" if you will and he passes with flying colours. The young boy represents the innocence that Anakin once had and that he now destroys, leaving only the power hungry and petulant madman that Padme and Obi-Wan encounter on Mustafar.

*** The Death Star was a brand new ship/weapons system just finishing its trials (blowing up Alderaan). It very well could have had no prisoners on board by that point. Depending on what EU materials you look at, Leia was either the only prisoner or the previous prisoners were massacred in an escape attempt (see Star Wars Battlefront 2).

*** Following through with the above, it's very likely that the DS1 was filled with civilian workers and forced labor when it was destroyed(and this is outright stated in EU material on a couple occasions), as, as mentioned, it had just finished construction and had its first weapons test on Jedha and then again on Scarif and Alderaan, with the intent to blow Yavin IV to hell as well. At no point did they stop for a breath and let the workers off; they were constantly chasing the Rebels from point A to point B from the moment of completion. Was it necessary to destroy the Death Star to prevent the destruction of the Rebellion and the solidification of Imperial Dominance? Yes. Is a Necessary Evil any less Evil? No. The Rebels have always been morally grey; Rogue One is just the first film to out-and-out say, "Yeah, they're the protagonists, but they aren't morally good." Worth noting the opposite of this is why people were up in arms about Disney; they thought it would get softer, and we got the single darkest film in the canon from them(And, quite rightly, one hailed as being the best since Empire).

*** First we should look at the situation. A large arena with token guards and hundreds of supposedly unarmed civilians, A guest box with three of the most valuable leaders of the Separatist and a body guard.The Jedi have themselves ( a order of warrior monks who work as lone wolves, in groups of two, or as small squads.) who for the most part are only seen in the EU and Mace who is the second most powerful living duelist in the Order. The same Order that includes Yoda and Count Dooku, who was a member. Lets brake down Mace's strategy.Step one:capture the guest box. Who to send, Yoda, not on the same planet. Several Jedi, no not unless you want them die at the hand of the Count. The number two badass in the Order, seems like a safe bet. Why not send more Jedi? It was a small box and only Jango could fly (Poggle the Lesser If memory serves had crippled wings). Simple, they would have gotten in each others way if there had been a fight and sliced each other to pieces. No, one Jedi was the best choice. The next question is who was most dangerous in the box. The Nemmodens? Poggle? Dooku, the former Jedi? or maybe Jango who could fly around shooting at Windu as he dueled Dooku? I think Jango was the biggest threat.Step two: Disperse the crowd. Last thing a Jedi wants is civilian losses or a rampaging mob. To break up the civilians they disperse through the crowd then when the leaders are captured, start a panic leaving only arena guards to deal with as well as encircling said guards, and the gladiatorial beast of which one was dead, one near blind, and one used as a mount. The Jedi then press their advantage and free the hostages and try to escape, with Separatist leadership. Friends saved, Separatist movement crippled, chance to end a war before it begins.Then the droids show up. Mace is detracted as B2s advance, Jango sets him of fire, he now has Dooku at his back and he lost the advantage of surprise. He knows staying in the box is a death sentence so he retreats. Droids are now pouring in to the arena through the gates, mostly B1s and B2s and known Jedi killer, the Droideka. The Jedi then form a defensive circle to prevent any attack from behind. Now the Jedi hold out and hope for Yoda. As for the droids, the Jedi had no way to know that the droid factories and cargo depot were directly connected to the arena. The only people who'd seen the facility had been captured and the people they were going to save. The one who did report was captured mid-report. The core ships they saw coming in could have easily been unloading resources as on loading troops, and up till this the Separatist have been none violent so it probably the former.

** To me, what causes things to snowball out of control is when the droids arrive en masse in very short order shortly after the jedi swoop in. While it would be a dumb idea to assume there would be no droid forces present on Geonosis capable of responding to an attack, keep in mind where they are. In an arena packed with Geonosians, who are now fleeing in a panic. To me it looks like the first crucial mistake the jedi made was assuming that they could basically swoop in and rescue the captives, and that the Geonosians would at least hesitate to start a massive firefight that'd put their populace at risk of collateral damage. The jedi basically pulled a human shield gambit on a species modeled after eusocial insects, the Geonosians called their bluff almost immediately and it was all downhill from there.
* Droids in the Star Wars universe are initially non-sentient, unable to do or think anything outside their programming, but if they aren't routinely memory wiped they become sentient. The horror comes when you realize that if people were to have their memories erased to around our births every few weeks or so, we wouldn't be sentient either, we'd be no more than animals. That's essentially what droids that are routinely memory wiped are, babies that are set back to factory settings and required to relearn everything all over again every memory wipe. Sure, technically droids aren't slaves since they're non-sentient, but the only reason they AREN'T sentient to begin with is the people in Star Wars never let the babies grow up, as it were.

*** It's not surprising that Obi-Wan doesn't show any recognition for R2 and C-3PO, droids typically aren't treated as friends or comrades by most people in the Star Wars universe, but as property to be junked or sold when they are no longer of use or the owner needs some quick cash (which makes the above fridge horror even more horrific). Even in the unlikely event that Obi-Wan recognized R2 and C-3PO as the same droids he spent a great deal of time around years ago, he probably didn't really care. It would be like if you sold a table to a thrift store or wherever and years later went to a garage sale and noticed that same table was on sale, you probably would think something to the effect of "oh yeah, I used to own that table," bought what you wanted if anything, and then went about your business without giving the table a second thought.

* The lightsaber Luke proudly uses in ANH and TESB was given to him by Obi-Wan because it belonged to his father Anakin. Meaning it's the same one Anakin used to slaughter the Sand People in AOTC and the other Jedi, including the younglings in ROTS. It's also featured prominently in the sequel trilogy. The Star Wars equivalent of the rifle used at Sandy Hook is treated as a prized family heirloom.

* In ''A New Hope'', when the star destroyer's gunner is told not to shoot the droids' escape pod, his line is "There goes another one." ''Another'' one. Meaning some poor bastard had tried to escape just before and was blasted into stardust.
** Honestly it would be counter-intuitive to blast any of the pods into stardust. It's made pretty clear that the entire point of boarding the Tantive IV is so they can confirm they've contained the leaked plans, and failing that recover the specific data that was stolen so they can determine whether the rebels actually found intel they can exploit. If they fail to get any confirmation that the Death Star plans haven't been passed on to anyone else, AND they fail to recover the plans themselves, then boarding the Tantive IV would've been a waste of the Empire's time. Fridge Horror still applies since that means that anyone who did try to escape probably didn't make it far, likely either snatched up before they could land or simply captured once they hit Tatooine, ending up in front of a firing squad either way.
* Here's a possible one. Lucas claims ([[FlipFlopOfGod sometimes, it seems]]) that the Star Wars movies are [=R2D2=] telling the story of his experiences and companions to an alien race. Now consider the earlier points made here about droid sentience, and how every movie opens with 'A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...'. So did R2 get launched into space somehow, by himself or via a ship, and tumble through the void for who knows how long (especially considering how damn SLOW he'd be going and how far he'd have to have gone to match 'far far away'. Hyperspace travel, after all, can't just go on forever, especially if you're following EU rules of 'routes') until he was discovered? It brings to mind Stephen King's ''[[Literature/SkeletonCrew The Jaunt]]'': longer than you think, alien race. Longer than you think.

* In "A New Hope", Han and Luke have to blast their way past a handful of TIE Fighters to escape the Death Star. However it later becomes clear that Tarkin and Vader let the Millennium Falcon escape with minimum resistance so they could find the rebel base. That means that they sent a couple of poor schmucks out after the Falcon knowing they'd probably get shot down, and even if they didn't, they'd at least have destroyed all trace of the plans and destroyed any hope of the rebels destroying the Death Star - a win-win for them, but it makes you wonder exactly how often they sacrifice pilots for a tactical gain.
** TruthInTelevision. Sacrificing a few troops here and there to achieve a greater objective is not an uncommon military strategy.

## 1. Wiping out a majority of the Jedi Order, including children and apprentices. This left only the most senior of the Jedi and Sith (Yoda and Sidious), plus two Jedi of equal physical ability (Aging Obi-Wan and amputated Vader) until Luke was old enough to shake things up.
## 2. Wiping out the last of the Sith. Anakin had killed Count Dooku, then years later killed the Emperor, at risk to himself. Darth Maul slipped by, but he doesn't seem to be much more than a puppet for Sidious and any story revolving around his resurrection has him being unceremoniously snuffed out.
## 3. Causing the deaths of both sides, which also killed off the corruption and hypocrisy that had been plaguing both the Jedi Order and the Senate. With no supernatural interferences, the galaxy could adopt a more secular way of thinking and thus not have to worry about ''"a disturbance in the force"''.

1. Wiping out a majority of the Jedi Order, including children and apprentices. This left only the most senior of the Jedi and Sith (Yoda and Sidious), plus two Jedi of equal physical ability (Aging Obi-Wan and amputated Vader) until Luke was old enough to shake things up.
2. Wiping out the last of the Sith. Anakin had killed Count Dooku, then years later killed the Emperor, at risk to himself. Darth Maul slipped by, but he doesn't seem to be much more than a puppet for Sidious and any story revolving around his resurrection has him being unceremoniously snuffed out.
3. Causing the deaths of both sides, which also killed off the corruption and hypocrisy that had been plaguing both the Jedi Order and the Senate. With no supernatural interferences, the galaxy could adopt a more secular way of thinking and thus not have to worry about ''"a disturbance in the force"''.

* The first and last time Han is in a gunfight in the movies, he is cornered by a bad guy, and both times he is rescued by a snap-shot from a discretely drawn firearm that the bad guy failed to see.

*** Palpatine was feigning weakness -- the closeups while he is "vulnerable" show he's calmly gauging Windu and Anakin, manipulative as ever, and the very moment Anakin's made his decision, Palpatine's back on the offence, no longer panting and wheezing. The slaughter of the young Jedi was an atrocity, but also not something that we were supposed to view as a challenge -- it happens almost entirely offscreen, and it's something that, say, Maul probably could have accomplished with comparable results. All we see is that he's a competent Dragon, and that's about it. The Chosen One seems to be fraught with signs of his greatness, but ultimately about being in Palpatine's blind spot and/or siring the one who could bring about the end of the Sith, however indirectly.

*** It's hard to consider Obi-Wan's training child grooming when the "child" is around 20 years old and is perfectly willing to accept the role being given to him. The EU clears up a lot of the misconceptions in these arguments. First off, Obi-Wan ''did'' at least ''attempt'' to train a 13 year-old Luke in the ways of the Force, but Luke's uncle Owen wouldn't allow it (believing the Jedi path to be a destructive one) and demanded that Obi-Wan stay away from Luke. As for Leia being groomed, she ''is'' kind of the Princess of Alderaan. It's not so much being groomed, as it is [[IncrediblyLamePun adopting]] her adoptive family's heritage. And being both a Senator and Princess of a highly influential world, if Obi-Wan was to train her as a Jedi, I highly doubt that it would go unnoticed. As it was said, she was put right in front of the Emperor himself; I'm sure he'd be able to sense that this girl was more than just a little Force-Sensitive. This makes Luke a perfect choice because: 1) Luke's insulation ''does'' help teach him to control his emotions and 2) Luke is on the same [[IncrediblyLamePun desert]]ed world as Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was also a fugitive at this time and couldn't really afford to be seen running around with an ignited lightsaber (even though he still did it on a few occasions anyway). Obi-Wan ''did'' know that Darth Vader was very much alive and a huge threat to what was left of the Order. As for the reason as to why Obi-Wan stayed in exile, he did it because he's smart. At any given moment, the Empire could have killed Yoda or any of the other Jedi in hiding, leaving Obi-Wan the last living member of the Order. Therefore it's only natural that he would stay in exile and avoid drawing attention to himself so that the Jedi may survive. If he were to charge the Empire in some crazed attack, even if he did manage to make his way past the thousands of Star Destroyers and the trillions of Stormtroopers and succeed in killing Vader, who has now more than made up for his physical weakness through the power of the Dark Side, he probably would have been hunted and eventually killed by the rest of the Empire or even the Emperor himself, thus blotting out one of the last hopes the Jedi have to survive. Thirdly, as for why Obi-Wan didn't kill Vader when he had the chance, it's because he followed the Jedi Code, and striking down a crippled, [[RuleOfThree un]][[IncrediblyLamePun armed]] opponent, no matter how evil they are, will lead to the Dark Side. This is also why Luke refused to kill his father in ''Return of the Jedi'', and he knew that by doing so he would only be fulfilling the Emperor's wishes. As for Obi-Wan's eventual training of Luke, he doesn't teach Luke to hate Vader, he simply tells him that Vader is evil, that Vader "killed" his father (which is kind of true from a metaphorical standpoint), and that it is the role of a Jedi to defeat evil. This ''did'' start Luke down a dangerous path, yes, but such is the path of the Jedi. And, due to Obi-Wan's gambit of waiting for the right time instead of rushing in and acting without thinking, Vader and the Emperor were destroyed and the Jedi Order lived on. So it's not entirely impossible to say that Obi-Wan saved the entire galaxy by choosing to spare a life, rather than to end one.

*** Yeah, Padme's been [[{{TheWomanWearingTheQueenlyMask}} the woman wearing the Queenly mask]] since she was [[AChildShallLeadThem fourteen]]. She had to learn how to mask, and at times [[TheStoic hide]] her emotions in order to be taken seriously. Being ruled by her emotions was a big no-no.

** Another complication to this: the idea that the old Jedi order was stagnant and needed to be destroyed for the Force to be brought back into balance also applies to the Sith, even if one doesn't regard their mere existence as an imbalance. By the end of the prequel triology, the Jedi had grown complacent and dogmatic, no longer adhering to the spirit of Jedi ideals. Meanwhile at the end of the OT, Palpatine has been spending most of the Empire's existence resting on his laurels as far as advancement of the Sith goes, in a relationship where his apprentice has far less potential to grow and surpass him as he did in his prime. He certainly tries in [=RoTJ=], and has been shown to try in the EU, but it falls flat largely because the only people left alive he could drawn upon as potential successors are either inadeuate or (in Luke's and Leia's cases) not sufficiently pliable. By his own actions, Palpatine has doomed the Sith to stagnation as well, and Vader turns on them right when Palaptine's sealed the Sith's fate by deciding Luke is of no use to him. The only other option that'd be left at this point would be Leia, who'd no doubt be even less receptive to becoming a new Sith apprentice that Luke. The Jedi fell at the height of their corruption and decay, and the Sith fell right as Palpatine ensured the Sith would have no future beyond him. Both orders betrayed their principles in some way, which played a direct hand in their subsequent downfall.