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Changed line(s) 30 (click to see context) from:
** He is 11 during the book. Eleven. Two equal digits.
to:
** He is 11 during the book. Eleven. Two equal digits. digits.
* The description of Master Scraggs in the ''Buggre Alle This''-Bible. "Southwarke knobbestick", doesn't seem like much of an insult, unless you know that Southwark, for a very long time, was London's RedLightDistrict. Suddenly, a seemingly innocuous phrase has all kinds of implications.
* The description of Master Scraggs in the ''Buggre Alle This''-Bible. "Southwarke knobbestick", doesn't seem like much of an insult, unless you know that Southwark, for a very long time, was London's RedLightDistrict. Suddenly, a seemingly innocuous phrase has all kinds of implications.
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Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
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* Everything about Adam invokes duality and being neither good nor evil.
** Blond hair - BlondesAreEvil and HairOfGoldHeartOfGold.
** Gray eyes:
*** An old and largely forgotten trope is to symbolize innocence with gray eyes and blond hair. Gray eyes are often associated with danger and death and thought to be a trait of the ColdSniper by Civil War soldiers.
*** WindowsToTheSoul: Adam is neither wholly good nor evil. Hence, black and white equals gray, reflecting his GreyAndGrayMorality.
** Not to mention his name meaning "man".
** He is 11 during the book. Eleven. Two equal digits.
** Blond hair - BlondesAreEvil and HairOfGoldHeartOfGold.
** Gray eyes:
*** An old and largely forgotten trope is to symbolize innocence with gray eyes and blond hair. Gray eyes are often associated with danger and death and thought to be a trait of the ColdSniper by Civil War soldiers.
*** WindowsToTheSoul: Adam is neither wholly good nor evil. Hence, black and white equals gray, reflecting his GreyAndGrayMorality.
** Not to mention his name meaning "man".
** He is 11 during the book. Eleven. Two equal digits.
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Stripping out natter and first person.
Changed line(s) 1,5 (click to see context) from:
!!FridgeBrilliance:
* It can take years to get some of the jokes. More if you don't read Literature/TheBible that often.
* War is now a woman... oh, sort of like Helen of Troy. Yet another reason for men to kill each other.
** "Now"? Remember that as Pepper goes up against War, War smirks and says "little boys with their little toys". Also, Eve was given the flaming sword - not Adam. War has ''always'' been a woman.
*** It's not just that. Why is War depicted as a beautiful, alluring, desirable woman who, once you get closer, starts to look off-putting and terrifying? Because that's how war has been for the majority of history - glorified, glamourised and romanticised outside of the battlefield, until you're in the thick of it, and then it's already too late.
* It can take years to get some of the jokes. More if you don't read Literature/TheBible that often.
* War is now a woman... oh, sort of like Helen of Troy. Yet another reason for men to kill each other.
** "Now"? Remember that as Pepper goes up against War, War smirks and says "little boys with their little toys". Also, Eve was given the flaming sword - not Adam. War has ''always'' been a woman.
*** It's not just that. Why is War depicted as a beautiful, alluring, desirable woman who, once you get closer, starts to look off-putting and terrifying? Because that's how war has been for the majority of history - glorified, glamourised and romanticised outside of the battlefield, until you're in the thick of it, and then it's already too late.
to:
!!FridgeBrilliance:
* It can take years to get some of the jokes. More if you don't read Literature/TheBible that often.
often.
* War:
** War isnow a woman... oh, sort of like Helen of Troy. Yet another reason for men to kill each other.
** "Now"? Remember that as Pepper goes up against War, War smirks and says "little boys with their littletoys". Also, toys", and Eve was given the flaming sword - not sword--not Adam. War has ''always'' been a woman.
*** It's not just that. ** Why is War depicted as a beautiful, alluring, desirable woman who, once you get closer, starts to look off-putting and terrifying? Because that's how war has been for the majority of history - glorified, history--glorified, glamourised and romanticised outside of the battlefield, until you're in the thick of it, and then it's already too late.
* War:
** War is
** "Now"? Remember that as Pepper goes up against War, War smirks and says "little boys with their little
Changed line(s) 7,15 (click to see context) from:
* This troper cannot claim this one, they found it on Tumblr, but still- the earth is a Libra, because it's the focal point of ''balance.'' It houses the forces of Heaven/Hell as well as being the location of their final war, and a main message of the book is humanities capabilities for both good & evil, and how to find balance between the two. Possibly unintentional, but still awesome.
* ''Literature/GoodOmens'': I cant remember if I got it the first time and forgot about it, or if it went totally over my head, but the second time I read it it was a true "whooooa" moment. We know Crowley is the serpent from the Garden of Eden - a demon who corrupts humankind by causing them to reject God's instructions and eat from the tree of Knowledge. But Aziraphale, the angel who gives them his flaming sword for warmth, is ''Prometheus'' - the Titan who gave the humans heavenly fire, against the orders of Zeus, and was punished for it. Both myths describe a supernatural being in favour of humans having independent intelligence, who were punished by a god jealously guarding it - but Satan is the [[DesignatedVillain bad guy]], whereas Prometheus is a hero. [[NotSoDifferent Two sides of the same coin]], as Crowley and Aziraphale are shown to be throughout the book - both rejected from their respective sides of the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil as they both consider that whether humans act for good or bad, they deserve to have the ''choice''. -Tropers/JohnnyE
* It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Tropers/Karalora}}
** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - Tropers/SylviaViridian
*** It's also driven home when she mentally refers to them as "the ''consenting'' bicycle repairmen".
* It took ''me'' a few readings of ''Good Omens'' to realize that shortly after Aziraphale turns all the Secret Service men's guns into harmless water pistols at Warlock's birthday party, Crowley does [[NotSoDifferent pretty much the same thing]] but in reverse at Tadfield Manor, which reinforces the mirror image vibe these two give us. -- Tropers/QueenOfDorkness
** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --{{Tropers/youngstormlord}}
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[note]] Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well![[/note]] --Tropers/ThinksTooMuch
** Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same one person. --Tropers/AgentWu
* ''Literature/GoodOmens'': I cant remember if I got it the first time and forgot about it, or if it went totally over my head, but the second time I read it it was a true "whooooa" moment. We know Crowley is the serpent from the Garden of Eden - a demon who corrupts humankind by causing them to reject God's instructions and eat from the tree of Knowledge. But Aziraphale, the angel who gives them his flaming sword for warmth, is ''Prometheus'' - the Titan who gave the humans heavenly fire, against the orders of Zeus, and was punished for it. Both myths describe a supernatural being in favour of humans having independent intelligence, who were punished by a god jealously guarding it - but Satan is the [[DesignatedVillain bad guy]], whereas Prometheus is a hero. [[NotSoDifferent Two sides of the same coin]], as Crowley and Aziraphale are shown to be throughout the book - both rejected from their respective sides of the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil as they both consider that whether humans act for good or bad, they deserve to have the ''choice''. -Tropers/JohnnyE
* It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Tropers/Karalora}}
** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - Tropers/SylviaViridian
*** It's also driven home when she mentally refers to them as "the ''consenting'' bicycle repairmen".
* It took ''me'' a few readings of ''Good Omens'' to realize that shortly after Aziraphale turns all the Secret Service men's guns into harmless water pistols at Warlock's birthday party, Crowley does [[NotSoDifferent pretty much the same thing]] but in reverse at Tadfield Manor, which reinforces the mirror image vibe these two give us. -- Tropers/QueenOfDorkness
** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --{{Tropers/youngstormlord}}
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[note]] Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well![[/note]] --Tropers/ThinksTooMuch
** Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same one person. --Tropers/AgentWu
to:
* This troper cannot claim this one, they found it on Tumblr, but still- the The earth is a Libra, because it's the focal point of ''balance.'' It houses the forces of Heaven/Hell as well as being the location of their final war, and a main message of the book is humanities capabilities for both good & evil, and how to find balance between the two. Possibly unintentional, but still awesome.
*''Literature/GoodOmens'': I cant remember if I got it the first time and forgot about it, or if it went totally over my head, but the second time I read it it was a true "whooooa" moment. We know Crowley is the serpent from the Garden of Eden - a Eden--a demon who corrupts humankind by causing them to reject God's instructions and eat from the tree of Knowledge. But Aziraphale, the angel who gives them his flaming sword for warmth, is ''Prometheus'' - the Titan who gave the humans heavenly fire, against the orders of Zeus, and was punished for it. Both myths describe a supernatural being in favour of humans having independent intelligence, who were punished by a god jealously guarding it - but Satan is the [[DesignatedVillain bad guy]], whereas Prometheus is a hero. [[NotSoDifferent Two sides of the same coin]], as Crowley and Aziraphale are shown to be throughout the book - both rejected from their respective sides of the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil as they both consider that whether humans act for good or bad, they deserve to have the ''choice''. -Tropers/JohnnyE
''choice''.
*It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Tropers/Karalora}}
** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - Tropers/SylviaViridian
***endearment]]. It's also driven home when she mentally refers to them as "the ''consenting'' bicycle repairmen".
*It took ''me'' a few readings of ''Good Omens'' to realize that shortly Shortly after Aziraphale turns all the Secret Service men's guns into harmless water pistols at Warlock's birthday party, Crowley does [[NotSoDifferent pretty much the same thing]] but in reverse at Tadfield Manor, which reinforces the mirror image vibe these two give us. -- Tropers/QueenOfDorkness
** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --{{Tropers/youngstormlord}}
***us.
* Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[note]] Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well![[/note]] --Tropers/ThinksTooMuch
**]]
* Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same oneperson. --Tropers/AgentWuperson.
*
*
** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - Tropers/SylviaViridian
***
*
** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --{{Tropers/youngstormlord}}
***
* Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.
**
* Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same one
Changed line(s) 17,22 (click to see context) from:
* [[MeaningfulName Aziraphale's name]]. "Zira" in Hebrew means "brightness of morning." Aziraphale was the guardian of the Eastern Gate of Eden. Also all of the motifs of fire and light worked into his character.
** That's a nice coincidence, but WordOfGod on the subject is that they made up the name to sound angel-y.
*** Hmm, not exactly. It was said that "it was made up but... er... from real ingredients", which means that it's not entirely impossible that the "Zira" part was intended.
*** The angel Israfel's name is also close enough to be considered a corruption of Aziraphale and means 'the Burning one'. There's also that parking warden's notebook Aziraphale makes combust into flame. And he gifts humans with flame = power/knowledge, essentially making him and Crowley the two daddies of Free Will, and is apparently demoted and assigned to wander the Earth for it, which is not entirely dissimilar to being 'chained to a cliff', if you will, and is likely considered a horrible fate by his fellow angels. The 'fire' and 'light' and Prometheus theme is very real for him.
* During Crowley's and Aziraphale's exchange before they face Lucifer: Aziraphale says 'I'd just like to say... I'll have known, deep down inside, that there was a spark of goodness in you.'
** Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’\\\
** That's a nice coincidence, but WordOfGod on the subject is that they made up the name to sound angel-y.
*** Hmm, not exactly. It was said that "it was made up but... er... from real ingredients", which means that it's not entirely impossible that the "Zira" part was intended.
*** The angel Israfel's name is also close enough to be considered a corruption of Aziraphale and means 'the Burning one'. There's also that parking warden's notebook Aziraphale makes combust into flame. And he gifts humans with flame = power/knowledge, essentially making him and Crowley the two daddies of Free Will, and is apparently demoted and assigned to wander the Earth for it, which is not entirely dissimilar to being 'chained to a cliff', if you will, and is likely considered a horrible fate by his fellow angels. The 'fire' and 'light' and Prometheus theme is very real for him.
* During Crowley's and Aziraphale's exchange before they face Lucifer: Aziraphale says 'I'd just like to say... I'll have known, deep down inside, that there was a spark of goodness in you.'
** Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’\\\
to:
* [[MeaningfulName Aziraphale's name]]. "Zira" in Hebrew means "brightness of morning." Aziraphale was the guardian of the Eastern Gate of Eden. Also all of the motifs of fire and light worked into his character.
** That's a nice coincidence, but WordOfGod on the subject is that they made up the name to sound angel-y.
*** Hmm, not exactly. It was said that "it was made up but... er... from real ingredients", which means that it's not entirely impossible that the "Zira" part was intended.
***character. The angel Israfel's name is also close enough to be considered a corruption of Aziraphale and means 'the Burning one'. There's also that parking warden's notebook Aziraphale makes combust into flame. And he gifts humans with flame = power/knowledge, essentially making him and Crowley the two daddies of Free Will, and is apparently demoted and assigned to wander the Earth for it, which is not entirely dissimilar to being 'chained to a cliff', if you will, and is likely considered a horrible fate by his fellow angels. The 'fire' and 'light' and Prometheus theme is very real for him.
* During Crowley's and Aziraphale's exchange before they face Lucifer: Aziraphale says 'I'd just like to say... I'll have known, deep down inside, that there was a spark of goodness in you.'
**' Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’\\\
** That's a nice coincidence, but WordOfGod on the subject is that they made up the name to sound angel-y.
*** Hmm, not exactly. It was said that "it was made up but... er... from real ingredients", which means that it's not entirely impossible that the "Zira" part was intended.
***
* During Crowley's and Aziraphale's exchange before they face Lucifer: Aziraphale says 'I'd just like to say... I'll have known, deep down inside, that there was a spark of goodness in you.
**
Deleted line(s) 26 (click to see context) :
Deleted line(s) 29 (click to see context) :
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Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[hottip:*: Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well!]] --Tropers/ThinksTooMuch
to:
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[hottip:*: that![[note]] Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well!]] well![[/note]] --Tropers/ThinksTooMuch
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Changed line(s) 30,31 (click to see context) from:
* More to support Aziraphale's gayness than his relationship with Crowley, but it's mentioned that he learned how to gavotte at a "discreet gentleman's club." Molly houses (aka proto-gay bars) existed in roughly the same time period as the gavotte (18th century).
to:
* More to support Aziraphale's gayness than his relationship with Crowley, but it's mentioned that he learned how to gavotte at a "discreet gentleman's club." Molly houses (aka proto-gay bars) existed in roughly the same time period as the gavotte (18th century).
century). He also collects Wilde first editions - Oscar Wilde was famously inclined towards gentlemen.
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Added DiffLines:
* More to support Aziraphale's gayness than his relationship with Crowley, but it's mentioned that he learned how to gavotte at a "discreet gentleman's club." Molly houses (aka proto-gay bars) existed in roughly the same time period as the gavotte (18th century).
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Added DiffLines:
* This troper cannot claim this one, they found it on Tumblr, but still- the earth is a Libra, because it's the focal point of ''balance.'' It houses the forces of Heaven/Hell as well as being the location of their final war, and a main message of the book is humanities capabilities for both good & evil, and how to find balance between the two. Possibly unintentional, but still awesome.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 21,27 (click to see context) from:
** Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’
** The phrasing is correct in Crowley’s response (and it’s appropriate - Aziraphale’s bastard side really is pretty far down inside), but not in Aziraphale’s. Why? Maybe because he isn’t talking about Crowley.
-->He’s talking about himself. That ''he'' has known all along, deep down inside, that Crowley had a spark of goodness in him. And it certainly looks in some parts of the book that he wants to believe in Crowley’s better side despite what he considers his better judgement - but formally he is still very much in the ‘demons evil, Heaven good’ camp for most of the book up till that point.
-->Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he ''did'' know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
** The phrasing is correct in Crowley’s response (and it’s appropriate - Aziraphale’s bastard side really is pretty far down inside), but not in Aziraphale’s. Why? Maybe because he isn’t talking about Crowley.
-->He’s talking about himself. That ''he'' has known all along, deep down inside, that Crowley had a spark of goodness in him. And it certainly looks in some parts of the book that he wants to believe in Crowley’s better side despite what he considers his better judgement - but formally he is still very much in the ‘demons evil, Heaven good’ camp for most of the book up till that point.
-->Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he ''did'' know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
to:
** Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’
**’\\\
The phrasing is correct in Crowley’s response (and it’s appropriate - Aziraphale’s bastard side really is pretty far down inside), but not in Aziraphale’s. Why? Maybe because he isn’t talking aboutCrowley.
-->He’sCrowley.\\\
He’s talking about himself. That ''he'' has known all along, deep down inside, that Crowley had a spark of goodness in him. And it certainly looks in some parts of the book that he wants to believe in Crowley’s better side despite what he considers his better judgement - but formally he is still very much in the ‘demons evil, Heaven good’ camp for most of the book up till thatpoint.
-->Aziraphalepoint.\\\
Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he ''did'' know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
**
The phrasing is correct in Crowley’s response (and it’s appropriate - Aziraphale’s bastard side really is pretty far down inside), but not in Aziraphale’s. Why? Maybe because he isn’t talking about
-->He’s
He’s talking about himself. That ''he'' has known all along, deep down inside, that Crowley had a spark of goodness in him. And it certainly looks in some parts of the book that he wants to believe in Crowley’s better side despite what he considers his better judgement - but formally he is still very much in the ‘demons evil, Heaven good’ camp for most of the book up till that
-->Aziraphale
Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he ''did'' know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
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Badly formatted, interrupts someone else\'s thought, and I\'m not sure the point you\'re getting at. The bird sharpening its beak is a reference to a bible passage.
Changed line(s) 21,24 (click to see context) from:
--> "Chained to a cliff." And when Crowley and Aziraphale are talking about the length of time it would take Sound of Music to be over if Heaven won, what ridiculous metaphor do they use? A bird. Flying to a mountain. Sharpening its beak. Not really all that significant, but with all the Prometheus parallels, I noticed it and may have possibly cried a bit.
-->Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’
-->The phrasing is correct in Crowley’s response (and it’s appropriate - Aziraphale’s bastard side really is pretty far down inside), but not in Aziraphale’s. Why? Maybe because he isn’t talking about Crowley.
-->Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’
-->The phrasing is correct in Crowley’s response (and it’s appropriate - Aziraphale’s bastard side really is pretty far down inside), but not in Aziraphale’s. Why? Maybe because he isn’t talking about Crowley.
to:
-->Look
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--> "Chained to a cliff." And when Crowley and Aziraphale are talking about the length of time it would take Sound of Music to be over if Heaven won, what ridiculous metaphor do they use? A bird. Flying to a mountain. Sharpening its beak. Not really all that significant, but with all the Prometheus parallels, I noticed it and may have possibly cried a bit.
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Changed line(s) 28,30 (click to see context) from:
* Towards the end of the book, [[spoiler: after the Them get rid of the Four Horsepeople of the Apocalypse, {{Satan}} is supposed to come. But then Adam- who, keep in mind, is TheAntichrist- just waves his hand, and Satan ends up not doing anything. What happens immediately after that? Mr. Young, Adam's ''adoptive'' father shows up, and is somewhat cross at Adam. Adam's father showed up, angry.]]
-->[[spoiler: [[TheAntiAntichrist Adam seldom did what his father wanted]].]]
-->[[spoiler: [[TheAntiAntichrist Adam seldom did what his father wanted]].]]
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* Towards the end of the book, [[spoiler: after the Them get rid of the Four Horsepeople of the Apocalypse, {{Satan}} is supposed to come. But then Adam- who, keep in mind, is TheAntichrist- just waves his hand, and Satan ends up not doing anything. What happens immediately after that? Mr. Young, Adam's ''adoptive'' father shows up, and is somewhat cross at Adam. Adam for not doing what he said. Adam's father showed up, angry.angry at him for not obeying.]]
-->[[spoiler:[[TheAntiAntichrist [[AntiAntichrist Adam seldom did what his father wanted]].]]
-->[[spoiler:
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* Towards the end of the book, [[spoiler: after the Them get rid of the Four Horsepeople of the Apocalypse, {{Satan}} is supposed to come. But then Adam- who, keep in mind, is TheAntichrist- just waves his hand, and Satan ends up not doing anything. What happens immediately after that? Mr. Young, Adam's ''adoptive'' father shows up, and is somewhat cross at Adam. Adam's father showed up, angry.]]
-->[[spoiler: [[TheAntiAntichrist Adam seldom did what his father wanted]].]]
-->[[spoiler: [[TheAntiAntichrist Adam seldom did what his father wanted]].]]
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Changed line(s) 30,32 (click to see context) from:
* Deliberately invoked [[spoiler: and thankfully later averted]] in reguards to Baby B.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active and exhuberant; and after that, grew further to become a normal, fairly contented adult.\\
You don't want to know what could have happened to Baby B.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active and exhuberant; and after that, grew further to become a normal, fairly contented adult.\\
You don't want to know what could have happened to Baby B.
to:
* Deliberately invoked [[spoiler: and thankfully later averted]] in reguards regards to Baby B.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active andexhuberant; exuberant; and after that, grew further to become a normal, fairly contented adult.adult. ... Possibly you would like to imagine some children, and a hobby - restoring vintage bicycles, perhaps, or breeding tropical fish.\\
You don't want to know whatcould have happened ''could'' happen to Baby B.\\
We like your version better, anyway.\\
He probably wins prizes for his tropical fish.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active and
You don't want to know what
We like your version better, anyway.\\
He probably wins prizes for his tropical fish.
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*** It's not just that. Why is War depicted as a beautiful, alluring, desirable woman who, once you get closer, starts to look off-putting and terrifying? Because that's how war has been for the majority of history - glorified, glamourised and romanticised outside of the battlefield, until you're in the thick of it, and then it's already too late.
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* Why is War depicted as a beautiful, alluring, desirable woman who, once you get closer, starts to look off-putting and terrifying? Because that's how war has been for the majority of history - glorified, glamourised and romanticised outside of the battlefield, until you're in the thick of it, and then it's already too late.
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* Why is War depicted as a beautiful, alluring, desirable woman who, once you get closer, starts to look off-putting and terrifying? Because that's how war has been for the majority of history - glorified, glamourised and romanticised outside of the battlefield, until you're in the thick of it, and then it's already too late.
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*** The angel Israfel's name is also close enough to be considered a corruption of Aziraphale and means 'the Burning one'. There's also that parking warden's notebook Aziraphale makes combust into flame. And he gifts humans with flame = power/knowledge, essentially making him and Crowley the two daddies of Free Will, and is apparently demoted and assigned to wander the Earth for it, which is not entirely dissimilar to being 'chained to a cliff', if you will, and is likely considered a horrible fate by his fellow angels. The 'fire' and 'light' and Prometheus theme is very real for him.
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* It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Trpers/Karalora}}
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* It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Trpers/Karalora}}--{{Tropers/Karalora}}
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* ''Literature/GoodOmens'': I cant remember if I got it the first time and forgot about it, or if it went totally over my head, but the second time I read it it was a true "whooooa" moment. We know Crowley is the serpent from the Garden of Eden - a demon who corrupts humankind by causing them to reject God's instructions and eat from the tree of Knowledge. But Aziraphale, the angel who gives them his flaming sword for warmth, is ''Prometheus'' - the Titan who gave the humans heavenly fire, against the orders of Zeus, and was punished for it. Both myths describe a supernatural being in favour of humans having independent intelligence, who were punished by a god jealously guarding it - but Satan is the [[DesignatedVillain bad guy]], whereas Prometheus is a hero. [[NotSoDifferent Two sides of the same coin]], as Crowley and Aziraphale are shown to be throughout the book - both rejected from their respective sides of the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil as they both consider that whether humans act for good or bad, they deserve to have the ''choice''. -JohnnyE
** It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Karalora}}
*** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - SylviaViridian
** It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Karalora}}
*** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - SylviaViridian
to:
* ''Literature/GoodOmens'': I cant remember if I got it the first time and forgot about it, or if it went totally over my head, but the second time I read it it was a true "whooooa" moment. We know Crowley is the serpent from the Garden of Eden - a demon who corrupts humankind by causing them to reject God's instructions and eat from the tree of Knowledge. But Aziraphale, the angel who gives them his flaming sword for warmth, is ''Prometheus'' - the Titan who gave the humans heavenly fire, against the orders of Zeus, and was punished for it. Both myths describe a supernatural being in favour of humans having independent intelligence, who were punished by a god jealously guarding it - but Satan is the [[DesignatedVillain bad guy]], whereas Prometheus is a hero. [[NotSoDifferent Two sides of the same coin]], as Crowley and Aziraphale are shown to be throughout the book - both rejected from their respective sides of the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil as they both consider that whether humans act for good or bad, they deserve to have the ''choice''. -JohnnyE
**-Tropers/JohnnyE
* It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]].--{{Karalora}}
*** ...--{{Trpers/Karalora}}
** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] -SylviaViridianTropers/SylviaViridian
**
* It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]].
*** ...
** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] -
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** It took ''me'' a few readings of ''Good Omens'' to realize that shortly after Aziraphale turns all the Secret Service men's guns into harmless water pistols at Warlock's birthday party, Crowley does [[NotSoDifferent pretty much the same thing]] but in reverse at Tadfield Manor, which reinforces the mirror image vibe these two give us. -- Queen of Dorkness
*** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --youngstormlord
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[hottip:*: Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well!]] --ThinksTooMuch
** Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same one person. --AgentWu
*** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --youngstormlord
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[hottip:*: Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well!]] --ThinksTooMuch
** Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same one person. --AgentWu
to:
***
** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'"
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[hottip:*: Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well!]]
** Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same one person.
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*** Hmm, not exactly. It was said that "it was made up but... er... from real ingredients", which means that it's not entirely impossible that the "Zira" part was intended.
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!!FridgeHorror:
* Deliberately invoked [[spoiler: and thankfully later averted]] in reguards to Baby B.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active and exhuberant; and after that, grew further to become a normal, fairly contented adult.\\
You don't want to know what could have happened to Baby B.
* Deliberately invoked [[spoiler: and thankfully later averted]] in reguards to Baby B.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active and exhuberant; and after that, grew further to become a normal, fairly contented adult.\\
You don't want to know what could have happened to Baby B.
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-->Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he ''did'' know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
to:
-->Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he ''did'' know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.there.
!!FridgeHorror:
* Deliberately invoked [[spoiler: and thankfully later averted]] in reguards to Baby B.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active and exhuberant; and after that, grew further to become a normal, fairly contented adult.\\
You don't want to know what could have happened to Baby B.
!!FridgeHorror:
* Deliberately invoked [[spoiler: and thankfully later averted]] in reguards to Baby B.
-->It would be nice to think that the Satanist Nuns had the surplus baby - Baby B - discreetly adopted. That he grew up to be a normal, happy, laughing child, active and exhuberant; and after that, grew further to become a normal, fairly contented adult.\\
You don't want to know what could have happened to Baby B.
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Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
-->Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he did know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
to:
-->Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he did ''did'' know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
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* During Crowley's and Aziraphale's exchange before they face Lucifer: Aziraphale says 'I'd just like to say... I'll have known, deep down inside, that there was a spark of goodness in you.'
-->Look very carefully at the difference in phrasing. In Aziraphale’s phrase, the ‘deep down inside’ comes before ‘that’ and makes no sense if it’s referring to the spark of goodness, as in a spark of goodness deep down inside Crowley. If it were, it should’ve been ‘I’ll have known that, deep down inside, there was a spark of goodness in you.’
-->The phrasing is correct in Crowley’s response (and it’s appropriate - Aziraphale’s bastard side really is pretty far down inside), but not in Aziraphale’s. Why? Maybe because he isn’t talking about Crowley.
-->He’s talking about himself. That ''he'' has known all along, deep down inside, that Crowley had a spark of goodness in him. And it certainly looks in some parts of the book that he wants to believe in Crowley’s better side despite what he considers his better judgement - but formally he is still very much in the ‘demons evil, Heaven good’ camp for most of the book up till that point.
-->Aziraphale is essentially apologising for six thousand years of treating Crowley as inherently evil, assuring him that he did know better, deep inside, even if he didn’t always act like it. Setting things straight between them before their expected final battle. Getting the truth out there.
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* In another (very punny) instance of "two sides of the same coin" while having dinner together: Aziraphale is eating [[IncrediblyLamePun deviled eggs]]. Crowley's eating [[IncrediblyLamePun angel food cake]].
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Namespacing
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* It can take years to get some of the jokes. More if you don't read TheBible that often.
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* It can take years to get some of the jokes. More if you don't read TheBible Literature/TheBible that often.
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Doesn\'t really count as fridge logic when it\'s spelled out in the book
Deleted line(s) 14 (click to see context) :
* The reason the characters can, when it's really important, check one of Agnes's prophecies ''completely at random'' and find something relevant and useful? Well, she can see the future - she ''knew'' what prophecy they were going to look at back when she wrote them. - Jamaican Castle
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One addition, one indentation level correction
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** The reason the characters can, when it's really important, check one of Agnes's prophecies ''completely at random'' and find something relevant and useful? Well, she can see the future - she ''knew'' what prophecy they were going to look at back when she wrote them. - Jamaican Castle
to:
** Another example of Azirapale and Crowley being two sides of the same coin: their vague reference to having "resources" actually referred to the same one person. --AgentWu
* The reason the characters can, when it's really important, check one of Agnes's prophecies ''completely at random'' and find something relevant and useful? Well, she can see the future - she ''knew'' what prophecy they were going to look at back when she wrote them. - Jamaican Castle
* The reason the characters can, when it's really important, check one of Agnes's prophecies ''completely at random'' and find something relevant and useful? Well, she can see the future - she ''knew'' what prophecy they were going to look at back when she wrote them. - Jamaican Castle
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** That's a nice coincidence, but WordOfGod on the subject is that they made up the name to sound angel-y.
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Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
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* [[MeaningfulName Aziraphale's name]]. "Zira" in Hebrew means "brightness of morning." Aziraphale was the guardian of the Eastern Gate of Eden. Also all of the motifs of fire and light worked into his character.
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Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
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* ''Literature/GoodOmens'': I cant remember if I got it the first time and forgot about it, or if it went totally over my head, but the second time I read it it was a true "whooooa" moment. We know Crowley is the serpent from the Garden of Eden - a demon who corrupts humankind by causing them to reject God's instructions and eat from the tree of Knowledge. But Aziraphale, the angel who gives them his flaming sword for warmth, is ''Prometheus'' - the Titan who gave the humans heavenly fire, against the orders of Zeus, and was punished for it. Both myths describe a supernatural being in favour of humans having independent intelligence, who were punished by a god jealously guarding it - but Satan is the [[DesignatedVillain bad guy]], whereas Prometheus is a hero. [[NotSoDifferent Two sides of the same coin]], as Crowley and Aziraphale are shown to be throughout the book - both rejected from their respective sides of the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil as they both consider that whether humans act for good or bad, they deserve to have the ''choice''. -JohnnyE
** It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Karalora}}
*** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - SylviaViridian
*** It's also driven home when she mentally refers to them as "the ''consenting'' bicycle repairmen".
** It took ''me'' a few readings of ''Good Omens'' to realize that shortly after Aziraphale turns all the Secret Service men's guns into harmless water pistols at Warlock's birthday party, Crowley does [[NotSoDifferent pretty much the same thing]] but in reverse at Tadfield Manor, which reinforces the mirror image vibe these two give us. -- Queen of Dorkness
*** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --youngstormlord
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[hottip:*: Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well!]] --ThinksTooMuch
** The reason the characters can, when it's really important, check one of Agnes's prophecies ''completely at random'' and find something relevant and useful? Well, she can see the future - she ''knew'' what prophecy they were going to look at back when she wrote them. - Jamaican Castle
** It took me a few readings of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' to get that Anathema's relief upon hearing Crowley address Aziraphale as "angel" was that she was wary of getting raped and assumed it was [[Main/MistakenForGay a term of endearment]]. --{{Karalora}}
*** ...Oh, you're right. Up until now, I had just assumed that was Anathema being slightly psychic and jumping to the right conclusion, but [[RuleOfFunny I like that version much better.]] - SylviaViridian
*** It's also driven home when she mentally refers to them as "the ''consenting'' bicycle repairmen".
** It took ''me'' a few readings of ''Good Omens'' to realize that shortly after Aziraphale turns all the Secret Service men's guns into harmless water pistols at Warlock's birthday party, Crowley does [[NotSoDifferent pretty much the same thing]] but in reverse at Tadfield Manor, which reinforces the mirror image vibe these two give us. -- Queen of Dorkness
*** Not all the Secret Service men's guns. "After some time, a bang was heard and window pane behind them broke. 'Oh, dear. It seems I missed one.' Aziraphale said. 'What do we do now?'" --youngstormlord
*** Who, exactly, the Them are. They're the ''real'' other Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the benign versions of the Rider they [[spoiler: took out.]] Red is War and Pepper is Friendly Scuffles, Chalky is Pollution and Brian is Getting Delightfully Muddy, Sable is Famine and Wensleydale is something along the lines of ForgetsToEat, and while Azrael is Death, Adam is [[spoiler: Normal, happy life.]] It took me ''so long'' to get that![[hottip:*: Or grow that {{Epileptic Tree|s}}, but come on, it fits too well!]] --ThinksTooMuch
** The reason the characters can, when it's really important, check one of Agnes's prophecies ''completely at random'' and find something relevant and useful? Well, she can see the future - she ''knew'' what prophecy they were going to look at back when she wrote them. - Jamaican Castle
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** "Now"? Remember that as Pepper goes up against War, War smirks and says "little boys with their little toys". Also, Eve was given the flaming sword - not Adam. War has ''always'' been a woman.