History Fridge / Gargoyles

* Watch 'Vows', examine closely what the StableTimeLoop told Demona about her own future (and what she didn't learn), and then watch 'Awakening' and 'City of Stone' again - focusing on Demona's actions. Her [[FutureMeScaresMe older incarnation]] showed her what would happen, but Goliath interrupted before the older Demona could explain exactly how this had come to happen. All Demona's actions from the day she and Goliath exchanged vows to the very moment she saw the Vikings sneaking into position were attempts to prevent that future from happening [[TheCassandra with the incomplete information she had.]] The writers either decided 'all Demona's actions stem from a visit from her future self long before the events of the pilot' while they were writing the pilot, or they executed one of the most skillful RetCons ever. Then, a thousand years later, Demona completes her StableTimeLoop and realizes only afterwards that she was doomed to fail. If she seems to have gotten even more vengeful and crazy after 'Vows', it may be a result of her feeling that destiny itself is against her.

* Watch 'Vows', examine closely what the StableTimeLoop told Demona about her own future (and what she didn't learn), and then watch 'Awakening' and 'City of Stone' again - focusing on Demona's actions. Her [[FutureMeScaresMe older incarnation]] showed her what would happen, but was unable to tell her the exact how and why because of Goliath's interference. From ending her apprenticeship to the Archmage right up to the final betrayal, it was all an effort to prevent what she had foreseen. Then, a thousand years later, she completes the StableTimeLoop and realizes that 'history is immutable'... in other words, she was destined to fail. If she seems to have gotten even more vengeful and crazy after 'Vows', it may be a result of her feeling that destiny itself is against her.

* The witches saludate both Macbeth and Duncan as "kings" and "fathers of kings" of "Scotland". [[spoiler: We know that Duncan was king before Macbeth, And Macbeth was king before his son. But we have never seen Duncan's son as a king, meaning that he is going to be declared king after Theatre/{{Macbeth}}'s son. All this implies that Duncan's son won the war.]]

* While the [[EvilSorcerer Archmage]] uses the phoenix gate to create a paradoxal time loop to save himself from his fall in the chasm and give himself the tome, amulet and phoenix gate that will empower him to save himself (and loop the loop), there is a much larger loop in play here. The phoenix gate exists because ''nobody ever created it''. It came into existance because in the future, Puck tries to trick Goliath into giving it to him, and he instead gets rid of it by ''hurling it into the far past'' where it is first discovered.

* FridgeBrillance: In Avalon times flow diferrently. The ration is one normal day-one avalon hour (24hs:1hs). In that case, the fact that [[spoiler:Tom is on his late-fifty]] when he appears in the present makes complete sense, because more than a thousand years have passed, meaning that at least 42 years have passed in Avalon. (1000Years:42Years)

*** And speaking of Coyotes, the fact that Xanatos named his robot double Coyote was a bit of a clue as well. Although given the robot's lack of success, I always suspected that the show's producers were homaging a different Coyote entirely. Namely [[LooneyTunes Wile E. Coyote]].

* I was making chocolate milk when it suddenly struck me what makes David Xanatos the greatest villain. It's not that he's an EvilGenius who can [[UnwittingPawn trick the heroes into doing his plans for him]], it's not that he has the capacity to feel love and other human emotions, it's not his DissonantSerenity and simple amorality as opposed to being a one-dimensional CardCarryingVillain or CompleteMonster. It's the complete lack of a FreudianExcuse! They don't try to humanize him or make us sympathize with him because of some painful past or bad childhood. He's the type of person he is and does what he does entirely because he wants to be. ''And we're still drawn to him!'' That more than anything confirms for me that this guy really is in total control. ~ @/{{Lale}}
** Concurred, though for an additional reason. Unlike the vast majority of villains, he fully embodies the {{A|nAesop}}esop of, as he puts it, "Revenge is a Sucker's Game," and refuses to indulge in any sort of scheme that makes things personal... he refuses to let his antagonists define his goals! The real FridgeBrilliance moment comes when you realize that the thirst for vengeance is a handicap for nearly every other character (even occasionally, the heroes!) of the show, and his lack thereof is a main reason Xanatos is consistently stays one step ahead. - @/{{Rothul}}
*** What I realized about Xanatos that made me appreciate him even more was that he is the ultimate human trickster. He's such a successful trickster that he managed to hold his own against a real Trickster, Coyote. He even had the ultimate Trickster, Puck, working for him! Also, not counting Xanatos, the show featured no less than four Trickster gods; Puck, Coyote, Raven, and Anansi. The trickster myths are among my favorites, and if ABC hadn't [[ExecutiveMeddling changed the format]], it would have been really cool to see them going at it.
*** And speaking of Coyotes, the fact that Xanatos named his robot double Coyote was a bit of a clue as well. Although given the robot's lack of success, I always suspected that the show's producers were homaging a different Coyote entirely. Namely [[LooneyTunes Wile E. Coyote]].
** This is the reason why I don't really see Xanatos as a villain at all. While even he admits that he ''plays'' the villain every now and then when it furthers his goals he is by and large a trickster and con man. He's probably the most "realistic" villain ever put into animation because there are plenty of people like him, some of whom do run massive corporations and are just as adept as he is at playing both sides against each other for their own gain and they're not necessarily bad people, but they are very, ''very'' good businessmen.
* Actually, my moment is when I was given the first season on DVD, and it occurred to me that the head Gargoyle is named GOLIATH, and his main adversary is named DAVID Xanatos. DAVID vs. GOLIATH! I made a huge headdesk at missing that one, though my friends pointed out that Xanatos was always referred to by his surname. - Mr. Nick
** '''[[BoldInflation How come I never noticed that?!]]''' --@/{{Karalora}}

* I just realized the fact that Brooklyn's [[EvilKnockoff Evil Clone]] is named Hollywood has two layers. First of all, Broadway is in New York, and Hollywood is in L.A. However, both are entertainment capitals of the world: Broadway of theater, and Hollywood of film. It's a perfect contrast --@/DynamicDragon

* While the [[EvilSorcerer Archmage]] uses the phoenix gate to create a paradoxal time loop to save himself from his fall in the chasm and give himself the tome, amulet and phoenix gate that will empower him to save himself (and loop the loop), there is a much larger loop in play here. The phoenix gate exists because ''nobody ever created it''. It came into existance because in the future, Puck tries to trick Goliath into giving it to him, and he instead gets rid of it by ''hurling it into the far past'' where it is first discovered.

* In the episode "Deadly Force", Brooklyn almost kills Elisa by playing with her gun. Later, in the episode "The Price", Broadway accidentally turns to stone in mid-flight, and Elisa saves his life by [[ShootTheRope shooting a rope]] which held a crate containing some carpets that were able to break his fall. This shows how guns can be used to kill and how they can protect someone depending on how they are used.

* The witches saludate both Macbeth and Duncan as "kings" and "fathers of kings" of "Scotland". [[spoiler: We know that Duncan was king before Macbeth, And Macbeth was king before his son. But we have never seen Duncan's son as a king, meaning that he is going to be declared king after MacBeth's son. All this implies that Duncan's son won the war.]]

*** That depends on the exact mechanics of the spell.

* I was making chocolate milk when it suddenly struck me what makes David Xanatos the greatest villain. It's not that he's an EvilGenius who can [[XanatosGambit trick the heroes into doing his plans for him]], it's not that he has the capacity to feel love and other human emotions, it's not his DissonantSerenity and simple amorality as opposed to being a one-dimensional CardCarryingVillain or CompleteMonster. It's the complete lack of a FreudianExcuse! They don't try to humanize him or make us sympathize with him because of some painful past or bad childhood. He's the type of person he is and does what he does entirely because he wants to be. ''And we're still drawn to him!'' That more than anything confirms for me that this guy really is [[XanatosRoulette in total control]]. ~ @/{{Lale}}

* In "The Gathering: Part 2" Puck mentions that he offered Xanatos the choice between any one wish or a lifetime of servitude from Owen Burnett (Puck's human alter ego). I never understood his choosing Owen, as fond as he may be of the man there's no way he would ever give up his chance an immortality like that (especially since it was one of his main motivations for much of the series) until I realized that one of his defining characteristics is that he's DangerouslyGenreSavvy, he probably knew that no matter what wish he made [[JackassGenie Puck would probably find a way to screw him over.]] This is why he chose Owen, this is what impressed Puck so much as to instill such a sense of loyalty to a measly human (that and Xanatos is never, ever boring).
** Or, as Xanatos would probably put it, there are many paths to immortality, but good help is so hard to find.

** Why does Demona hate Macbeth, despite the fact that she knows perfectly well he never betrayed her, and he's worked harder than she has at preserving the gargoyles? [[spoiler: Because he never betrayed her, and he's worked harder than she has at preserving the gargoyles. They've known each other for centuries, and every time Demona lays eyes on Macbeth, she realizes that he's everything she claims the humans are not, and that everything she says about humans, is true of herself.]]
*** Why does Demona hate Elisa so much? It's not just that she is now "dating" Demona's ex; her relationship with him also bears a striking resemblance to Demona's relationship with Macbeth back in the mid-11th century.
**** Correct, but it's also because Demona has a strong need to use humanity as her scapegoats (what with being unable to take responsibility for her mistakes). Elisa proves here claim of humanity to be somewhat false.

** Concurred, though for an additional reason. Unlike the vast majority of villains, he fully embodies the {{Aesop}} of, as he puts it, "Revenge is a Sucker's Game," and refuses to indulge in any sort of scheme that makes things personal... he refuses to let his antagonists define his goals! The real FridgeBrilliance moment comes when you realize that the thirst for vengeance is a handicap for nearly every other character (even occasionally, the heroes!) of the show, and his lack thereof is a main reason Xanatos is consistently stays one step ahead. - @/{{Rothul}}

* This troper found it brilliant that Macbeth's backstory, which is quite distant from [[{{Shakespeare}} Shakespeare's]] play, is in fact extremely close to the story of the real, historical Macbeth! Duncan ''was'' a young, incompetent conquerer, and Macbeth ''was'' celebrated as a hero for killing him!

* The witches saludate both MacBeth and Duncan as "kings" and "fathers of kings" of "Scotland". [[spoiler: We know that Duncan was king before MacBeth, And MacBeth was king before his son. But we have never seen Duncan's son as a king, meaning that he is going to be declared king after MacBeth's son. All this implies that Duncan's son won the war.]]

* FridgeHorror [[XMeetsY meets]] HighOctaneNightmareFuel: Demona's actions in "City of Stone". Those people DIED. ONSCREEN. ON A KIDS' SHOW.

** Imagine ''[[FlashForward2009 Flash Forward]]'' in a lesser scale.

** Actually, if you pay attention to his words at the end, he is specifically stating that ''he is restoring the stolen energies''. While Jackal was controlling Anubis's power, he was taking away life before it's intended time and therefore those were all unnatural deaths and it is the Jackal god's job to put things as they should be. All those people Jackal killed were revived.

** I will disagree. I think he brought that money so he won't risk it going into the mad scientist's hands. HE didn't even know ten thousand dollar bills existed, so their was no risk the guy would get away with money even if he tried. Xanatos was expecting Thailog, who Xanatos taught everything he knew. A genisist who doesn't know a thing about economics may be safe to give unusable ten thousand dollar bills, but Thailog could of (and did) find a way to get a fortune off the money.

* I just realized the fact that Broadway's EvilClone is named Hollywood has two layers. First of all, Broadway is in New York, and Hollywood is in L.A. However, both are entertainment capitals of the world: Broadway of theater, and Hollywood of film. It's a perfect contrast --DynamicDragon

* Thailog isn't going to be able to spend that money he stole from Xanatos, since the bank doesn't ''circulate'' the Ten thousand dollar bills. He'd have the police on him in a heartbeat. That's why Xanatos wasn't all that upset to lose the money. --ncfan
** Except that Thailog ''was'' able to use the money, since he invested it into Nightstone Unlimited, and Xanatos ''was'' worried about what he'd be capable of. Seems more likely that Xanatos is just so rich that the actual loss of the cash didn't hurt him- MasterGhandalf.

** I will disagree. I think he brought that money so he won't risk it going into the mad scientist's hands. HE didn't even know ten thousand dollar bills existed, so their was no risk the guy would get away with money even if he tried. Thailog, on the other hand, being taught by the genius richer than God, HE would be able to figure out a way to get his money's worth out of the... money.

* Would you believe that watching ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'' inspired [[Fridge/{{Literature}} a burst of Fridge Brilliance for me regarding Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows]]? ~ {{Lale}}
** No, I wouldn't. Not unless you tell us what it was.

* Would you believe that watching ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'' inspired [[Fridge/{{Literature}} a burst of Fridge Brilliance for me regarding Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows]]? ~ {{Lale}}

* I was making chocolate milk when it suddenly struck me what makes David Xanatos the greatest villain. It's not that he's an EvilGenius who can [[XanatosGambit trick the heroes into doing his plans for him]], it's not that he has the capacity to feel love and other human emotions, it's not his DissonantSerenity and simple amorality as opposed to being a one-dimensional CardCarryingVillain or CompleteMonster. It's the complete lack of a FreudianExcuse! They don't try to humanize him or make us sympathize with him because of some painful past or bad childhood. He's the type of person he is and does what he does entirely because he wants to be. ''And we're still drawn to him!'' That more than anything confirms for me that this guy really is [[XanatosRoulette in total control]]. ~ {{Lale}}
** Concurred, though for an additional reason. Unlike the vast majority of villains, he fully embodies the {{Aesop}} of, as he puts it, "Revenge Is A Suckers Game," and refuses to indulge in any sort of scheme that makes things personal... he refuses to let his antagonists define his goals! The real FridgeBrilliance moment comes when you realize that the thirst for vengeance is a handicap for nearly every other character (even occasionally, the heroes!) of the show, and his lack thereof is a main reason Xanatos is consistently stays one step ahead. - {{Rothul}}
*** What I realized about Xanatos that made me appreciate him even more was that he is the ultimate human trickster. He's such a successful trickster that he managed to hold his own against a real Trickster, Coyote. He even had the ultimate Trickster, Puck, working for him! Also, not counting Xanatos, the show featured no less than four Trickster gods; Puck, Coyote, Raven and Anansi. The trickster myths are among my favorites, and if ABC hadn't [[ExecutiveMeddling changed the format]], it would have been really cool to see them going at it.
*** And speaking of Coyotes, the fact that Xanatos named his robot double Coyote was a bit of a clue as well. Although given the robot's lack of success, I always suspected that the show's producers were homaging a different Coyote entirely. Namely [[LooneyTunes Wile E. Coyote]].
** This is the reason why I don't really see Xanatos as a villain at all. While even he admits that he ''plays'' the villain every now and then when it furthers his goals he is by and large a trickster and con man. He's probably the most "realistic" villain ever put into animation because there are plenty of people like him, some of whom do run massive corporations and are just as adept as he is at playing both sides against each other for their own gain and they're not necessarily bad people, but they are very, ''very'' good businessmen.
* Actually, my moment is when I was given the first season on DVD, and it occurred to me that the head Gargoyle is named GOLIATH, and his main adversary is named DAVID Xanatos. DAVID vs. GOLIATH! I made a huge headdesk at missing that one, though my friends pointed out that Xanatos was always referred to by his surname. - Mr. Nick
** '''[[BoldInflation How come I never noticed that?!]]''' --{{Karalora}}

----

!![[AC:FridgeBrilliance]]

!!FridgeHorror

* FridgeHorror: The witches saludate both MacBeth and Duncan as "kings" and "fathers of kings" of "Scotland". [[spoiler: We know that Duncan was king before MacBeth, And MacBeth was king before his son. But we have never seen Duncan's son as a king, meaning that he is going to be declared king after MacBeth's son. All this implies that Duncan's son won the war.]]

* FridgeHorror: Demona has spent a thousand years plotting and scheming. All the people she cares about have died because of her, or she has alienated them. City of Stone's conclusion implies that she knows this on some level, and her hatred of humanity is so great because of her displaced and immeasurable self-loathing. After that four-parter, she only willingly works with someone else again once: Thailog, who presumably played on her feelings for Goliath before cloning her and mixing Elisa's DNA just to TwistTheKnife. After these episodes, and Puck's spell turning her human, she's utterly alone and miserable, spending half her time as a hated human, and no longer able to entirely pretend humans are at fault for what's happened in her life. She has to endure all of that... but she either can't bring herself to or is unable to commit suicide. Even the unpublished spinoffs imply that she'll still be like this even in Brooklyn's clan, and will remain a tortured and self-hating immortal forever.

* FridgeHorror [[XMeetsY meets]] HighOctaneNightmareFuel: Demona's actions in "City of Stone". Those people DIED. ONSCREEN. ON A KIDS' SHOW.
** Even worse when it's revealed that the humans turn back to flesh in the morning. Considering how much rubble there was in the streets and the fact that one woman had her arms shot off, New York was certainly in for a grisly sight that morning
*** Actually, when you consider that Gargoyles themselves don't become piles of meat after being destroyed during the day, they probably remained piles of rocks. Brings different fridge horror for the cleanup crew though...
*** That depends on the exact mechanics of the spell.
** Thousands of people ''should have'' died in "The Gathering", when Oberon puts the entire city to sleep - including everyone who was driving, flying planes, performing surgery...
*** This may be clutching at straws, [[spoiler: but Oberon reversed everything at the end, saying that it would be 'as a Midsummer Night's Dream...' It's possible that Oberon is powerful enough to undo anything he's done if he felt like it, including deaths.]]
*** Nope. WordOfGod is that [[BlueAndOrangeMorality only Oberon]] would consider calling the offscreen InferredHolocaust "as a midsummer night's dream," because to him all those deaths don't matter any more than a dream.

* FridgeHorror: Demona has spent a thousand years plotting and scheming. All the people she cares about have died because of her, or she has alienated them. City of Stone's conclusion implies that she knows this on some level, and her hatred of humanity is so great because of her displaced and immeasurable self-loathing. After that four-parter, she only willingly works with someone else again once: Thailog, who presumably played on her feelings for Goliath before cloning her and mixing Elisa's DNA just to TwistTheKnife. After these episodes, and Puck's spell turning her human, she's utterly alone and miserable, spending half her time as a hated human, and no longer able to entirely pretend humans are at fault for what's happened in her life. She has to endure all of that... but she can't bring herself to suicide. Even the unpublished spinoffs imply that she'll still be like this even in Brooklyn's clan, and will remain a tortured and self-hating immortal forever.

[[AC:FridgeBrilliance]]

* FridgeHorror: Demona has spent a thousand years plotting and scheming. All the people she cares about have died because of her, or she has alienated them. City of Stone's conclusion implies that she knows this on some level, and her hatred of humanity is so great because of her displaced and immeasurable self-loathing. After that four-parter, she only willingly works with someone else again once: Thailog, who presumably played on her feelings for Goliath before cloning her and mixing Elisa's DNA just to TwistTheKnife. After these episodes, and Puck's spell turning her human, she's utterly alone and miserable, spending half her time as a hated human, and no longer able to entirely pretend humans are at fault for what's happened in her life. She has to endure all of that... but she can't bring herself to suicide. Even the unpublished spinoffs imply that she'll still be like this even in Brooklyn's clan, and will remain a tortured and self-hating immortal forever.

* FridgeHorror: The witches saludate both MacBeth and Duncan as "kings" and "father of kings" of "Scotland". [[spoiler: We know that Duncan was king before MacBeth, And MacBeth was king before his son. But we have never seen Duncan's son as a king, meaning that he is going to be declared king after MacBeth's son. All this implies that Duncan's son won the war.]]
** That is what happened in real life [[spoiler: Macbeth's (step)son ruled as king for only a year before Duncan's son Malcolm seized the throne]].

* Something of a Fridge Injustice. Oberon banished his children because of their lack of humility. Yet of all the faeries in the show, he's the haughtiest of them all. This is because he felt he didn't need the lesson, and he has remained as humble as he was before the banishing. Yet Puck, the trickster, has taken the lesson to heart by staying to honor his agreement with Xanatos. Instead of praising him for learning the lesson, Oberon banishes him and strips him of his power because he stands by his agreement. The injustice of it makes you want to give Puck a hug.