When Oberon is reduced in power, he is forced to use spoken incantations to invoke elemental magic, instead of just pointing.
I was making chocolate milk when it suddenly struck me what makes David Xanatos the greatest villain. It's not that he's an Evil Genius who can trick the heroes into doing his plans for him, it's not that he has the capacity to feel love and other human emotions, it's not his Dissonant Serenity and simple amorality as opposed to being a one-dimensional Card-Carrying Villain. It's the complete lack of a Freudian Excuse! They don't try to humanize him or make us sympathize with him because of some painful past or bad childhood. He's the type of person he is and does what he does entirely because he wants to be. And we're still drawn to him! That more than anything confirms for me that this guy really is in total control. ~ Lale
Concurred, though for an additional reason. Unlike the vast majority of villains, he fully embodies the Aesop of, as he puts it, "Revenge is a Sucker's Game," and refuses to indulge in any sort of scheme that makes things personal... he refuses to let his antagonists define his goals! The real Fridge Brilliance moment comes when you realize that the thirst for vengeance is a handicap for nearly every other character (even occasionally, the heroes!) of the show, and his lack thereof is a main reason Xanatos is consistently stays one step ahead. - Rothul
What I realized about Xanatos that made me appreciate him even more was that he is the ultimate human trickster. He's such a successful trickster that he managed to hold his own against a real Trickster, Coyote. He even had the ultimate Trickster, Puck, working for him! Also, not counting Xanatos, the show featured no less than four Trickster gods; Puck, Coyote, Raven, and Anansi. The trickster myths are among my favorites, and if ABC hadn't changed the format, it would have been really cool to see them going at it.
And speaking of Coyotes, the fact that Xanatos named his robot double Coyote was a bit of a clue as well. Although given the robot's lack of success, I always suspected that the show's producers were homaging a different Coyote entirely. Namely Wile E. Coyote.
This is the reason why I don't really see Xanatos as a villain at all. While even he admits that he plays the villain every now and then when it furthers his goals he is by and large a trickster and con man. He's probably the most "realistic" villain ever put into animation because there are plenty of people like him, some of whom do run massive corporations and are just as adept as he is at playing both sides against each other for their own gain and they're not necessarily bad people, but they are very, very good businessmen.
Only half a very good businessman. He may "never live for the sake of another man," but his reliance on deceit and willingness to exploit others for his own unjust gain earned at their expense instead of dealing fairly to mutual gain of all parties he deals with proves he's very willing to "ask another man to live for mine," which makes him a (great) villain even from a point-of-view that condones selfishness.
Actually, my moment is when I was given the first season on DVD, and it occurred to me that the head Gargoyle is named GOLIATH, and his main adversary is named DAVID Xanatos. DAVID vs. GOLIATH! I made a huge headdesk at missing that one, though my friends pointed out that Xanatos was always referred to by his surname. - Mr. Nick
Also, tying in with Xanatos' obsession with immortality, in Greek mythology, Thanatos was the god who escorted spirits to the afterlife to be judged. According to Word of God, David Xanatos is of Greek descent.
I just realized the fact that Broadway's Evil Clone is named Hollywood has two layers. First of all, Broadway is in New York, and Hollywood is in L.A. However, both are entertainment capitals of the world: Broadway of theater, and Hollywood of film. It's a perfect contrast —Dynamic Dragon
Thailog isn't going to be able to spend that money he stole from Xanatos, since the bank doesn't circulate ten thousand dollar bills. He'd have the police on him in a heartbeat. That's why Xanatos wasn't all that upset to lose the money. —ncfan
I will disagree. I think he brought that money so he won't risk it going into the mad scientist's hands. HE didn't even know ten thousand dollar bills existed, so their was no risk the guy would get away with money even if he tried. Xanatos was expecting Thailog, who Xanatos taught everything he knew. A genisist who doesn't know a thing about economics may be safe to give unusable ten thousand dollar bills, but Thailog could of (and did) find a way to get a fortune off the money.
Except that Thailog was able to use the money, since he invested it into Nightstone Unlimited, and Xanatos was worried about what he'd be capable of. Seems more likely that Xanatos is just so rich that the actual loss of the cash didn't hurt him- Master Ghandalf.
In "The Gathering: Part 2" Puck mentions that he offered Xanatos the choice between any one wish or a lifetime of servitude from Owen Burnett (Puck's human alter ego). I never understood his choosing Owen, as fond as he may be of the man there's no way he would ever give up his chance an immortality like that (especially since it was one of his main motivations for much of the series) until I realized that one of his defining characteristics is that he's Dangerously Genre Savvy, he probably knew that no matter what wish he made Puck would probably find a way to screw him over. This is why he chose Owen, this is what impressed Puck so much as to instill such a sense of loyalty to a measly human (that and Xanatos is never, ever boring).
Or, as Xanatos would probably put it, there are many paths to immortality but good help is so hard to find.
Seconded. Prior to Oberon imposing the limitations on Puck, he refrained from restoring Owen's left hand back to flesh. That's because doing so would violate the deal with Xanatos. And as demonstrated with The Weird Sisters, there are other ways to achieve immortality, but finding someone like Owen isn't so easy.
I never figured out why Oberon took Goliath's suggestion about Alexander staying with his parents after Fox's magical powers manifested more seriously than any other possibility regarding the boy until I realized what when he did so Goliath bowed to him and spoke with reverence and respect, while previously everyone else simply opposed him outright. Oberon is big on humility (even though he doesn't practice what he preaches). Goliath allowed himself to be humbled before him and that's why his request was granted.
After Maggie is turned into a mutate, she said that she's from Ohio. At first, I thought this was pointless. Then I realized that most astronauts and pioneers of aerospace are from Ohio. Maggie has the ability to fly unaided by machines— one of the first humans to be able to do so
While the Archmage uses the Phoenix Gate to create a paradoxical time loop to save himself from his fall in the chasm and give himself the tome, amulet and phoenix gate that will empower him to save himself (and loop the loop), there is a much larger loop in play here. The Phoenix Gate exists because nobody ever created it. It came into existance because in the future, Puck tries to trick Goliath into giving it to him, and he instead gets rid of the Gate by hurling it into the far past where it is first discovered.
This troper found it brilliant that Macbeth's backstory, which is quite distant from Shakespeare's play, is in fact extremely close to the story of the real, historical Macbeth! Duncan was a young, incompetent conquerer, and Macbeth was celebrated as a hero for killing him!
In Avalon times flow differently. The ration is one normal day-one avalon hour (24hs:1hs). In that case, the fact that Tom is on his late-fifty when he appears in the present makes complete sense, because more than a thousand years have passed, meaning that at least 42 years have passed in Avalon. (1000Years:42Years)
The Magus never let Katherine know about his love for her and let her fall in love with Tom while he remained alone. He argues this is because without his magic he has nothing to offer her, but this plainly isn't true as his wisdom and friendship are indispensable to all who live on Avalon. In the same conversation he also says that what he did to the Gargoyles (turning them to stone for 1000 years) is unforgivable. That's when I realized that he viewed his pain as penance for his "crime." He's been punishing himself for a thousand years (okay, 42 by his count, but still) and feels that it still isn't enough. Someone give this poor man a hug!
Actually, think of it this way: one of the mightiest spells he ever worked was one that sealed Goliath and his clan away. He used his magic in a horrific way to punish someone who was innocent. For the Magus, that's kind of the equivalent of a great swordsman deliberately murdering or injuring someone who was innocent with his blade in a fit of rage. The resulting My God, What Have I Done? would eat at him and make his question whether he has the wisdom or judgment to exercise his skills. He thinks he doesn't have the wisdom to offer others because of that mistake, and thus all he has is his magic - something he horribly misused. No wonder he doesn't feel good enough, as the only thing he feels he has to offer is something he has abused and has never forgiven himself for. Poor guy.
I recently realized why the Archmage chose that particular cave as a lair. After Hakon and the Captain fall into the cave, they come back as ghosts thanks to the magical aura, and came very close to becoming alive again. Therefore, if the Archmage died in that cave, he would have come back as a ghost, and had a chance to come back to life
Except the Archmage was using that cave before Hakon and the Captain ever die there, and it's stated that they exist as ghosts due to Unfinished Business rather than any magic inherent to the place where they died.
Yet the Archmage was probably able to recognize the power of the ancient sarsen at the bottom of the cave. If he was able to tap that artifact's power, it makes sense of the question, "Why lurk in a damp cave when you could be allied with one of Castle Wyvern's enemies and living in a comfortable apartment?"
If you look carefully, Puck's design subtly changes in almost every scene he's in. Sometimes its the width of his chin, sometimes its the shape of his nose, or the size and shape of his ears. Sometimes he's very lithe and slender, sometimes he's a bit bulkier. Sometimes his eyes are black, sometimes blue without pupils. This used to bug me a lot, until I realized something. It's not just bad animation! Puck is a shapeshifter, and when his design changes, it's usually in scenes where he's agitated, emotional, excited, or just plain distracted. In short- he's not paying attention to the particulars of his shape, so they keep changing on him! Owen isn't immune to this phenomenon either! But the changes in Owen's design are much more subtle and infrequent, which indicates that while Puck is in his role as Owen, he's being much, much more diligent about what he looks like, since humans don't shapeshift like faeries do. ~Silver Gryphon 8
Remember those two henchmen Macbeth has? The one we only see when he's going after Merlin's scrolls and Excalibur? There's a reason we only see them at those times - Macbeth isn't going after Demona during those episodes and after all these years he knows better than to bring ordinary humans along when he picks fights with Demona!
Something of a Fridge Injustice. Oberon banished his children because of their lack of humility. Yet of all the faeries in the show, he's the haughtiest of them all. This is because he felt he didn't need the lesson, and he has remained as humble as he was before the banishing. Yet Puck, the trickster, has taken the lesson to heart by staying to honor his agreement with Xanatos. Instead of praising him for learning the lesson, Oberon banishes him and strips him of his power because he stands by his agreement. The injustice of it makes you want to give Puck a hug.
There is no injustice. Puck deserved what he got. Regardless of what else Puck may have committed himself to Oberon was still his lord and master and Puck ignored the command to return to Avalon for the Gathering. Then when Oberon shows up in person Puck attacks him, and no it is not a necessary attack, Alexander was in no actual danger and Oberon was deliberately not using lethal force (and he easily could have killed all of them repeatedly). Three of Oberon's Children failed to show to the Gathering, Banshee, Puck and Titania. Oberon says Titania may coem and go as she pleases and even she submits when he directly orders it. Banshee refused the call and started a fight with Odin and ended up haing her power restrained. Puck refused the call and attacked him personally and ended up with his power restrained and banished from his homeland. Honestly, Oberon punished pretty fairly and consistently if you think about it, he even left enough loopholes to allow Puck to remain immortal. It's Puck who made his choice and has to live with the consequences.
Plus, Puck never really wanted to go back to Avalon, anyway, saying that it was "boring." He'd much rather have stayed with the Xanatos family, because they were anything but boring. Now, thanks to Oberon's decree, he never has to go back to Avalon again, and he will live out the rest of his very long life in service to a very interesting family. Plus, he can work any magic he likes as long as he's either defending or teaching Alex Xanatos...and, as the resident master of Loophole Abuse, Puck can construe anything as teaching or defending Alex. All in all, he got exactly what he wanted out of life by pulling off a Xanatos Gambit. On Oberon. And now you know why we never see Xanatos playing chess with Owen.
Having given it some thought, it is quite easy to realize just why Alex Xanatos seems to be maturing rapidly, and was also able to speak at the age of four months. Not only is Alex actively using magic, but when he possesses Lexington, that was his first time speaking. He learnt to speak so quickly because le first spoke through Lexington.
In the episode "Deadly Force", Broadway almost kills Elisa while playing with her gun. Later, in the episode "The Price", Broadway accidentally turns to stone in mid-flight, and Elisa saves his life by shooting a rope which held a crate containing some carpets that were able to break his fall. This shows how guns can be used to kill and how they can protect someone depending on how they are used.
Why does Demona hate Macbeth, despite the fact that she knows perfectly well he never betrayed her, and he's worked harder than she has at preserving the gargoyles? Because he never betrayed her, and he's worked harder than she has at preserving the gargoyles. They've known each other for centuries, and every time Demona lays eyes on Macbeth, she realizes that he's everything she claims the humans are not, and that everything she says about humans, is true of herself.
Why does Demona hate Elisa so much? It's not just that she is now "dating" Demona's ex; her relationship with him also bears a striking resemblance to Demona's relationship with Macbeth back in the mid-11th century.
Correct, but it's also because Demona has a strong need to use humanity as her scapegoats (what with being unable to take responsibility for her mistakes). Elisa proves here claim of humanity to be somewhat false.
Watch 'Vows', examine closely what the Stable Time Loop told Demona about her own future (and what she didn't learn), and then watch 'Awakening' and 'City of Stone' again - focusing on Demona's actions. Her older incarnation showed her what would happen, but Goliath interrupted before the older Demona could explain exactly how this had come to happen. All Demona's actions from the day she and Goliath exchanged vows to the very moment she saw the Vikings sneaking into position were attempts to prevent that future from happening with the incomplete information she had. The writers either decided 'all Demona's actions stem from a visit from her future self long before the events of the pilot' while they were writing the pilot, or they executed one of the most skillful continuity re-interpretations in the genre. Then, a thousand years later, Demona completes her Stable Time Loop and realizes only afterwards that she was doomed to fail. If she seems to have gotten even more vengeful and crazy after 'Vows', it may be a result of her feeling that destiny itself is against her.
Demona: It would seem that history is immutable.
Goliath (meaningfully): More's the pity.
In "City of Stone, Part Two", Duncan informs Macbeth that Gillecomgain is the Hunter, to manipulate Macbeth into going after Gillecomgain. And yet, after Gillecomgain is killed, Duncan decides to take up the Hunter's mask to avenge his death. But why would he want revenge against Macbeth and Demona for Gillecomgain's death, if that was what he sought? And I realized that his goal in that episode was not to get Gillecomgain killed. Gillecomgain had earlier refused to kill Macbeth because it would lead to questions of who killed Findlaech, and probably lead to his execution and a coup against Duncan. But if Macbeth went to Castle Moray to kill Gillecomgain, Gillecomgain could "legally" kill him in self-defense, and it would not cause people to look further into Findlaech's murder. It would have worked, if it were not for that pesky gargoyle Demona.
As a continuation of the main series, The Goliath Chroniclesis a little lacking in some parts. But if you think of it as a fanfic that just happened to get animated, it's actually halfway decent. -Blazar
Actually, the creator of the first series says that at least some episodes, mainly "The Journey", "The Dying of the Light", and "Angels in the Night" are cannon. Though everything else being a fanfic is still workable.
Greg Weisman most certainly never said that "The Dying of the Light" and "Angels In the Night" are canon. Quite the opposite, in fact
"Dying of the Light" is not canon but the fact that Jeffery Robins knows about Hudson was made canon in the comics. The only canon episode is "The Journey."
Vinnie's revenge on the face of it is kinda lame: A pie in the face equals the loss of two jobs and a drivers' liscense? But think: A) actually killing Goliath would have been cartoonish supervillainy levels of overkill, and B) if you can hit someone with a pie, you can hit them with a bullet. Vinnie's revenge was Goliath knowing that if it had been real, he'd be dead.
When Goliath and co. visit the Bad Future in Manhattan at the conclusion of the "Avalon World Tour" arc, the very first sound that they hear (which first lets them know that something's amiss) is an electronic recording of Owen's voice telling them that they've violated "Manhattan national sovereignty". Somewhat conspicuously, Owen is one of the few major supporting characters whose ultimate fate we never learn in that episode. Of course, we learn a few episodes later that Owen was actually Puck's human alter ego all along, and that the Bad Future was an illusion built by Puck. It makes perfect sense that the illusion would start with Puck's voice essentially "announcing" the charade from offscreen. And of course, Puck wouldn't appear in his "Owen" disguise, because he was busy pulling the strings behind the whole illusion. And he wouldn't have thought to give Owen his own unique future, because he knew that Owen was just a disguise, and had no independent existence.
The witches salute both Macbeth and Duncan as "kings" and "fathers of kings" of "Scotland". We know that Duncan was king before Macbeth, And Macbeth was king before his son. But we have never seen Duncan's son as a king, meaning that he is going to be declared king after Macbeth's son. All this implies that Duncan's son won the war.
That is what happened in real life Macbeth's (step)son ruled as king for only a year before Duncan's son Malcolm seized the throne.
Not only that, but the Weird Sisters and Macbeth confirm that Canmore defeated Luach:
Phoebe:Did your own death save your son Luach from Canmore?
A tearjerking moment. Over the centuries Macbeth might have forgiven Demona for toppling his kingdom or betraying his trust... but never for the death of his son.
Demona has spent a thousand years plotting and scheming. All the people she cares about have died because of her, or she has alienated them. City of Stone's conclusion implies that she knows this on some level, and her hatred of humanity is so great because of her displaced and immeasurable self-loathing. After that four-parter, she only willingly works with someone else again once: Thailog, who presumably played on her feelings for Goliath before cloning her and mixing Elisa's DNA just to Twist The Knife. After these episodes, and Puck's spell turning her human, she's utterly alone and miserable, spending half her time as a hated human, and no longer able to entirely pretend humans are at fault for what's happened in her life. She has to endure all of that... but she either can't bring herself to or is unable to commit suicide. Even the unpublished spinoffs imply that she'll still be like this even in Brooklyn's clan, and will remain a tortured and self-hating immortal forever.
She can't commit suicide, thanks to her link with Macbeth. She must die by his hand, or not at all, which provides a whole new layer of Fridge Horror to her constant provocation of him.
According to Ask Greg, Demona, no matter how much she hates herself, is too much of a survivor to seriously entertain suicide as an option for long. Macbeth, on the other hand, is pretty much suicidal (at least up until the events of "City of Stone" caused him to rethink things, and unlike Demona he didn't ignore his epiphany).
Even worse when it's revealed that the humans turn back to flesh in the morning. Considering how much rubble there was in the streets and the fact that one woman had her arms shot off, New York was certainly in for a grisly sight that morning
Actually, when you consider that Gargoyles themselves don't become piles of meat after being destroyed during the day, they probably remained piles of rocks. Brings different fridge horror for the cleanup crew though...
That depends on the exact mechanics of the spell.
Word of God confirms them remaining as stone on Greg's website.
Thousands of people should have died in "The Gathering", when Oberon puts the entire city to sleep - including everyone who was driving, flying planes, performing surgery...
This may be clutching at straws, but Oberon reversed everything at the end, saying that it would be 'as a Midsummer Night's Dream...' It's possible that Oberon is powerful enough to undo anything he's done if he felt like it, including deaths.
Even worse Fridge Horror: Imagine if you were one of the people who didn't see the enchanted broadcasts, so remained flesh when the sun went down. Now, imagine if you're riding in a car at the time, whose driver did not miss it. Better hope they aren't accelerating or making a turn when it happens, because you might just have to break their limbs to bits to avoid crashing...
The episode "City of Stone" from Gargoyles. People all over New York were turned to stone by Demona and she gleefully went through town smashing statues left and right. In one case, she only smashed the woman's arms. Even Greg Weisman realized the Fridge Horror and wrote a spooky second person POV story about someone who entered New York City Limits just after the spell was cast. Read it here. Scroll down to question 14.
On the same page are questions about when Goliath was under a slave spell. Except it's not WAS. He's ''still' under it, just forced to act like it. This could be very And I Must Scream if it means what I think it means.
That is not how I interpreted that scene. It is more of a Fridge Brilliance moment, than anything. By being told "to act as if you are not under a spell", it triggered a paradox that caused the spell to cancel itself out. How can a spell that allows you to command someone to do anything maintain its existence if the person who is under it is order "to act as if you are not under a spell"? That specific order for the 'slave spell' essentially a Logic Bomb.
On the same note, imagine being a mother giving birth when the sun sets. CREEPY.
And in another Gargoyles episode, Oberon commands all of NYC to "SLEEP!" See the above entries for Ocean's Eleven et al, or imagine the carnage yourself.
Nothing compared to the Episode in Egypt. Jackal unleashes Anubis power to kill all life in a certain radius encompassing at least one town. He is defeated afterwards - but remember, Anubis refuses to bring back the dead on principle!
Actually, if you pay attention to his words at the end, he is specifically stating that he is restoring the stolen energies. While Jackal was controlling Anubis's power, he was taking away life before it's intended time and therefore those were all unnatural deaths and it is the Jackal god's job to put things as they should be. All those people Jackal killed were revived.
You're missing part of Anubis' quote - the most important part. "What is dead and gone cannot be restored, but the stolen energies can be rechanneled." The latter clause refers to the rapid aging of the protagonists and de-aging of the Pack, which could be undone easily because none of them had crossed over yet. But as Anubis constantly spells out in the episode and as Word of God has confirmed multiple times, there is no distinction made between "natural death" and "unnatural death;" there is only death, which comes to us all. Tragic as the situation is, the dead can never be restored in the Gargoyles Universe (barring ghosts and the like), because the death gods make no exceptions. Begin to do so and you open the floodgates.
Eye of the Beholder: Word of God's timeline confirms that Fox was pregnant when she turned into that wolf-creature. Imagine what that may have done to her kid...
This tropette is more concerned about City of Stone. Fox may have turned, but how could little Alex if he didn't actually see the broadcast himself? At least a werefox's body could supply some nutrients to the developing fetus, but I can't help but wonder if his latent magical abilities were the only thing that kept Alexander alive.
Given that the people's clothing turned to stone as well, for sanity's sake, I go with the idea that a fetus would qualify as still being a part of the mother, and so also subject to the spell. The REAL infant concern is in NYC's maternity wards - those babies wouldn't have seen the spell, but their attending nurses would have...
Regarding the 'Conveniently Cellmates' trope on the main page... I just pictured Jackal or Hyena in a cell with some hapless drug-dealer or mugger doing time. It doesn't end well for the mook in this scenario. Yuck. No wonder the warden ended up putting them in with Fox and Wolf.