History Fridge / BabylonFive

30th Jan '16 8:15:04 AM hamonrye
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* Londo is the Prime Minister and the heir to the throne, but he still has to take commercial transports to get back to homeworld. The Centauri seem really cheap. Also, G'Kar talks about booking a seat next to Londo. (He calls the aisle seat, har har.) Don't they have sleeper cabins for a four-days trip? Especially on Centauri transports, they do have anti-grav. Drazi transports you might understand being strapped to a seat, they don't even have gravity!

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* Londo is the Prime Minister and the heir to the throne, but he still has to take commercial transports to get back to homeworld. The Centauri seem really cheap. Also, G'Kar talks about booking a seat next to Londo. (He calls the aisle seat, har har.) Don't they have sleeper cabins for a four-days trip? Especially on Centauri transports, they do have anti-grav. Drazi transports you might understand being strapped to a seat, they don't even have gravity!gravity!
** On Zhabar (Drazi homeworld), Garibaldi is attacked by some guys in black cloaks. He grabs a button off one of them which Londo identifies (after randomly walking into a meeting in Sheridan's office) as coming from the coat of a Centauri royal guard. Why were the guards sent ''[[VillainBall in-uniform]]'' on a covert mission?
30th Jan '16 7:59:48 AM hamonrye
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** Likely the standard Minbari protocol when dealing with outside races has been changed to "keep gunports closed" in order to prevent such a misunderstanding from happening again. Neroon's ship was a special circumstance; it was carrying the body of Shai Alyt Bramner, and Neroon himself is shown to be a racist from the get-go (believing humans inferior, and [[PoorCommunicationKills refusing to explain his actions to them]]), so it's not a stretch to believe that he saw Minbari traditions as taking precedence over outside-contact protocol. Delenn, of course, has firsthand knowledge of the pitfalls of this particular tradition, and once she realized what was happening, she moved quickly to prevent a misunderstanding.

to:

** Likely the standard Minbari protocol when dealing with outside races has been changed to "keep gunports closed" in order to prevent such a misunderstanding from happening again. Neroon's ship was a special circumstance; it was carrying the body of Shai Alyt Bramner, and Neroon himself is shown to be a racist from the get-go (believing humans inferior, and [[PoorCommunicationKills refusing to explain his actions to them]]), so it's not a stretch to believe that he saw Minbari traditions as taking precedence over outside-contact protocol. Delenn, of course, has firsthand knowledge of the pitfalls of this particular tradition, and once she realized what was happening, she moved quickly to prevent a misunderstanding.misunderstanding.
* Londo is the Prime Minister and the heir to the throne, but he still has to take commercial transports to get back to homeworld. The Centauri seem really cheap. Also, G'Kar talks about booking a seat next to Londo. (He calls the aisle seat, har har.) Don't they have sleeper cabins for a four-days trip? Especially on Centauri transports, they do have anti-grav. Drazi transports you might understand being strapped to a seat, they don't even have gravity!
13th Oct '15 6:30:22 PM DrImpossible
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* The Vorlon method of teaching the younger races doesn't work and never would! Just look at the Minbari, the only race we know to have significant long term influence by the Vorlons, they seem to have barely progressed technologically in the thousand years since the last Shadow war. The Vorlon teachings make a society so disciplined and rigid that there's little room for creative thought which leads to few innovations and improvements. Sure, to a Vorlon taking a few thousand years to progress is not a concern, but their immortal, the younger races can't do that because they don't live long enough to benefit from that kind of lifestyle. You'll notice that every single advancement we know of from the Minbari occured due to direct alien influence (Valen restructured Minbari society and made all the castes equal, the Vorlons allowed the Minbari to use some of their technology to creat the White Stars and everything that happens to them during the series happens due to Delenn's constant contact with humans). Notice how humanity managed to come up with ships that can fight and destroy White Stars in a little over a decade after being completely ineffective against the Minbari during their war? And all they had to work with was one Shadow ship for a couple of years, while the Minbari had Vorlon access for centuries and still needed the Vorlons to directly give them the technology. While the Shadows' methods go too far as well their methods actually do get results it's just they go too far and get themselves destroyed.
** While that's a nice HumansAreSpecial notion, it is actually not really true. Most of humanity's advanced technology is of alien origin. Canonically, they initially obtained jump gate[=/=]drive technology from the Centauri. The Narns sold them Centauri knock-off weaponry during the Earth-Minbari War. They were ''given'' artificial gravity technology when they joined the Interstellar Alliance. Sheriden convinced the Minbari to also provide the technology that went into building the ''[[Series/{{Crusade}} Excalibur]]''. Anna Sheriden worked for Interplanetary Expeditions, a corporation that did alien archaeology for the express purpose of finding technology. Plus the Shadows furnished some technology behind the scenes as well, in addition to what Earth was able to locate and study. Trading for alien technology was a common part of interstellar commerce. So, really, most of humanity's major advances were the result of reverse-engineering or direct technology transfer from alien sources. The pace of development ''seemed'' very rapid. But that was because there was a ''lot'' more alien technology that exceeded humanity's than there was that exceeded the Minbari's. Really, the ''only'' technology more advanced than the Minbari's own was that of the various First One races. Hence they had to do more of their own R&D, and had fewer sources of advanced tech that they could simply study. If the Shadow's philosophy was better, it was only because it had caused so many other races to advance so far that by the time humans first encountered the Centauri, there was a ''huge'' amount of alien technology to be had.
*** HumansAreSpecial was not the point I was making. The point was the Vorlons' influence slowed progress to the point where it took an outside perspective to advance forward. What other races did was irrelevant to the point as Minbari society was the only society we know of that had long term Vorlon influence.
** Which is the whole point of finding a "balance between order and chaos", as Delenn had said in "Into the Fire". "Who are you" and "what do you want" are both fundamentally important questions for all sentient beings, defining where you stand and where you are going, respectively. Focusing on just one without the other each carry its own set of dysfunctions. As an old saying goes: "give your children both roots, and wings."

to:

* The Vorlon method of teaching the younger races doesn't work and never would! Just look at the Minbari, the only race we know to have significant long term influence by the Vorlons, they seem to have barely progressed technologically in the thousand years since the last Shadow war. The Vorlon teachings make a society so disciplined and rigid that there's little room for creative thought which leads to few innovations and improvements. Sure, to a Vorlon taking a few thousand years to progress is not a concern, but their immortal, the younger races can't do that because they don't live long enough to benefit from that kind of lifestyle. You'll notice that every single advancement we know of from the Minbari occured due to direct alien influence (Valen restructured Minbari society and made all the castes equal, the Vorlons allowed the Minbari to use some of their technology to creat the White Stars and everything that happens to them during the series happens due to Delenn's constant contact with humans). Notice how humanity managed to come up with ships that can fight and destroy White Stars in a little over a decade after being completely ineffective against the Minbari during their war? And all they had to work with was one Shadow ship for a couple of years, while the Minbari had Vorlon access for centuries and still needed the Vorlons to directly give them the technology. While the Shadows' methods go too far as well their methods actually do get results it's just they go too far and get themselves destroyed.
** While that's a nice HumansAreSpecial notion, it is actually not really true. Most of humanity's advanced technology is of alien origin. Canonically, they initially obtained jump gate[=/=]drive technology from the Centauri.
destroyed. The Narns sold them Centauri knock-off weaponry during the Earth-Minbari War. They were ''given'' artificial gravity technology when they joined the Interstellar Alliance. Sheriden convinced the Minbari to also provide the technology that went into building the ''[[Series/{{Crusade}} Excalibur]]''. Anna Sheriden worked for Interplanetary Expeditions, a corporation that did alien archaeology for the express purpose of finding technology. Plus the Shadows furnished some technology behind the scenes as well, in addition to what Earth was able to locate and study. Trading for alien technology was a common part of interstellar commerce. So, really, most of humanity's major advances were the result of reverse-engineering or direct technology transfer from alien sources. The pace of development ''seemed'' very rapid. But that was because there was a ''lot'' more alien technology that exceeded humanity's than there was that exceeded the Minbari's. Really, the ''only'' technology more advanced than the Minbari's own was that of the various First One races. Hence they had to do more of their own R&D, and had fewer sources of advanced tech that they could simply study. If the Shadow's philosophy was better, it was only because it had caused so many other races to advance so far that by the time humans first encountered the Centauri, there was a ''huge'' amount of alien technology to be had.
*** HumansAreSpecial was not the point I was making. The point was the Vorlons' influence slowed progress to the point where it took an outside perspective to advance forward. What other races did was irrelevant to the point as Minbari society was the only society we know of that had long term Vorlon influence.
** Which
series is the whole point of about finding a "balance between order and chaos", as Delenn had said in "Into the Fire". "Who are you" and "what do you want" are both fundamentally important questions for all sentient beings, defining where you stand and where you are going, respectively. Focusing on just one without the other each carry its own set of dysfunctions. As an old saying goes: "give your children both roots, and wings."
13th Oct '15 6:24:13 PM DrImpossible
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* Pretty much the entire first episode, Midnight on the Firing Line. All of it.
17th Sep '15 10:24:44 PM ImpudentInfidel
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* Connected to the previous, Centauri pilots and Londo specifically are noted to be ''complete madmen'' in dangerous situations. Taking turns so violent the pilot blacks out but has an advantagous position when he comes too is apparently standard procedure according to what we hear during a Starfury training exercise. If they already know in advance if they'll die in combat or not, either way they'll naturally act like they have nothing to lose.
31st Aug '15 7:19:22 PM wittylibrarian
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* Londo established early on that many Centauri have prophetic dreams about their fate. When reviewing the career of the Centauri Emperor Turhan - who ends Centauri mistreatment of Narns, kept making peace offerings to them, and allowing the Narns to claim more and more Centauri territory as a means of atonement - it's likely that Turhan saw his death would signal the beginning of another Centauri/Narn War and sought to do whatever he could to prevent it or at least give the Narns a fighting chance.
** Look at how Turhan behaves during his episode: he departs for Babylon 5 acting as though he knew he wasn't coming back; and he keeps asking to see Kosh, because he knew he wouldn't die until he'd actually met a Vorlon (to ask the question "How will it all end?").
** Borders on FridgeHorror because Turhan might have foreseen his departure would mean the death of his closest friend the Prime Minister (whose own prophetic dreams probably told him the same thing).
** And as an example of UnintendedConsequences, Turhan's overtures to the Narns weakened Centauri position among the galactic races and instigated too many court plots and plans for war against Narn the first chance they could get.
14th Aug '15 3:45:50 PM loveliapoez
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Added DiffLines:

* Speking of the Green and Purple Drazi from Geometry of Shadows, on hindsight, the conflict between the two seemed like a foreshadowing of the Shadow war? The Greens are the Vorlons and the Purples the Shadows. Both sides respected the rules of combat, but then the Greens started killing the Purples (the Vorlons started using planet killers in order to "kill" those influenced by the Shadows).
8th Aug '15 3:47:12 PM SuperTulle
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* In ''Day of the Dead'' Londo can't understand how Reebo and Zooty are supposed to be comedic. Meanwhile, humans find the duo uproariously funny. The viewer doesn't get to see much of their routine, but will probably have a hard time "getting it", just like Londo. Now think of this: Humanitys culture hasn't been stagnant for centuries like Centauri culture, it has remained ever-changing (just think of 200 years worth of internet memes). Londo is conservative, so he doesn't understand, while Reebo and Zooty are the hippest beings in space for lightyears. ''Neither Londo nor the viewer understands Reebo and Zootys humor because they are 200 years behind!''
9th Jun '15 8:22:36 AM MarsJenkar
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* At the beginning of "Atonement", Ivanova is headed to a Drazi festival wearing the Green Leader sash. A few scenes later, we see Ivanova on crutches, clearly the worse for wear. It's more than one Drazi year since "The Geometry of Shadows", but this is likely the direct result of her "solution" in that episode (she had all the green sashes dyed purple), and the "festival" may have been the official ending of the conflict.






* Micheal Garibaldi, the brilliant security chief, failed to realize that forcibly seceding from the Earth Alliance would result in a disruption of his postal service? The same postal service provided by the Earth Alliance? Seems like a bit of an odd blindspot for his deductive skills.

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* Micheal Michael Garibaldi, the brilliant security chief, failed to realize that forcibly seceding from the Earth Alliance would result in a disruption of his postal service? The same postal service provided by the Earth Alliance? Seems like a bit of an odd blindspot for his deductive skills.



* In "Legacies" the command staff is rattled by a Minbari ship approaching with open gun ports until Delenn explains the gesture. So after a misinterpretation of the gun ports open approach caused the Earth/Minbari War - ten years later the fact that the warrior caste does this has STILL not been explained to the humans?

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* In "Legacies" the command staff is rattled by a Minbari ship approaching with open gun ports until Delenn explains the gesture. So after a misinterpretation of the gun ports open approach caused the Earth/Minbari War - ten years later the fact that the warrior caste does this has STILL not been explained to the humans?humans?
** Likely the standard Minbari protocol when dealing with outside races has been changed to "keep gunports closed" in order to prevent such a misunderstanding from happening again. Neroon's ship was a special circumstance; it was carrying the body of Shai Alyt Bramner, and Neroon himself is shown to be a racist from the get-go (believing humans inferior, and [[PoorCommunicationKills refusing to explain his actions to them]]), so it's not a stretch to believe that he saw Minbari traditions as taking precedence over outside-contact protocol. Delenn, of course, has firsthand knowledge of the pitfalls of this particular tradition, and once she realized what was happening, she moved quickly to prevent a misunderstanding.
9th Jun '15 2:39:01 AM SeptimusHeap
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*** Actually, Sinclair was the last Commander of B5. Both Sheridan and Lochley were Captains. JMS mentions giving them this rank to make the narration internally consistent.
**** That's somewhat of a MathematiciansAnswer - while technically true that Sinclair was the last person to run B5 with the rank of "Commander", military tradition refers to someone who commands a unit as the commander (of that unit), whatever their rank. That also ignores Sheridan's accomplishments towards Babylon 5's greatness. While Sinclair did [[spoiler: go back in time to become Valen - and do all that implies]], that was not done on Babylon 5, if we're getting into technicalities.
**** Actually, if we want to get ''really'' technical, the last person to bear the title of Commander and be part of B5 command staff was Commander Susan Ivonova.
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