History Fridge / BabylonFive

30th May '16 12:29:12 PM Josef5678
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* In "A Late Delivery From Avalon," Marcus proposes that McIntyre might actually be the real King Arthur, preserved by the Vorlons in much the same way that Sebastian a/k/a Jack the Ripper was. Franklin objects, saying that 'Arthur's' speech patterns are too modern by about 1400 years. A very logical objection...except that Sebastian's speech patterns should be about 350 years out of date as well (of course, the only major character he interacts with for a significant length of time is Delenn, and [[TranslationConvention their entire conversation may have been in Minbari]]). Consider how well Shakespeare's works or the original King James Bible holds up for modern English readers to see what a difference this should make.

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* In "A Late Delivery From Avalon," Marcus proposes that McIntyre [=McIntyre=] might actually be the real King Arthur, preserved by the Vorlons in much the same way that Sebastian a/k/a Jack the Ripper was. Franklin objects, saying that 'Arthur's' speech patterns are too modern by about 1400 years. A very logical objection...except that Sebastian's speech patterns should be about 350 years out of date as well (of course, the only major character he interacts with for a significant length of time is Delenn, and [[TranslationConvention their entire conversation may have been in Minbari]]). Consider how well Shakespeare's works or the original King James Bible holds up for modern English readers to see what a difference this should make.
18th May '16 9:13:10 PM AFP
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** Vir's request is punctuated by a sarcastic inquiry as to whether or not Morden's associates can arrange that for him. Ultimately, Vir's request is fulfilled by none other than one of Morden's associates, Londo Molari.
18th May '16 8:52:05 PM AFP
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* In ''There All The Honor Lies'', Sheridan is sent by Kosh to experience a "moment of perfect beauty". He enters a room an encounters a robed figure asking for an offering. In exchange for a part of his uniform which Sheridan admits is almost of no value, a room full of the robed figures perform a beautiful song for him. Fast forward to the series finale, ''Sleeping in Light'', and Vir relates a story Londo told about Pak'ma'ra singing, and how their voices were the most beautiful things he'd ever heard, and it becomes apparent that Sheridan might have been audience to a Pak'ma'ra choir. Where else would he find himself in a position to enjoy such a thing than in darkness, unable to judge the aliens based on their outward appearance?
5th May '16 4:20:02 PM EDP
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** Actually, the Minbari ''did'' visibly progress technologically: back in the previous Shadow War their main weapons were apparently short-ranged antimatter weapons (the ExpandedUniverse explains that the Vree antimatter weapons and reactors are based on Minbari wrecks from that era), by the seventeenth century they've gone to fission cannons (the direct ancestor of the fusion cannon) as secondary weapons and longer-ranged molecular agitators as main weapons while keeping a single antimatter weapon (the antimatter converter) for OrbitalBombardment, by the 20th they've replaced the fission cannons and molecular agitators with their evolved variants (the fusion cannons, in use on ''all'' 23rd century ships as a dual-use weapon, and the molecular disruptor respectively) and improved their jump drives and stealth, and in mid-21st century introduced the powerful and long-range neutron laser, and all of it without Vorlon help. Then again, that progress came after Valen, who ''did'' introduce a balance of sort...
** A better example would have been the Orieni, an ExpandedUniverse race that worshipped the Vorlon as gods and wanted to spread their philosophy of order through the cosmo: at the start of their war with the Centauri in the early 21st century they held the advantage thanks to slightly superior technology and much better crews and officers, but as the war progressed the Centauri adapted and gained the upper hand while the Orieni refused to change in the slightest, resulting ultimately in a (costly) Centauri victory.
5th May '16 4:01:53 PM EDP
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** A nitpick: not all Centauri dream of their death (lord Kiro, for example, not only didn't dream of it but was actually skeptical about the prophecy of his death being at the hands of some unknown "shadows", when he ''did'' die at the hands of the Shadows). That said, Turhan's wife was a seer, and, according to the RPG, he came to Babylon 5 ''knowing'' he'd die there... But not what Londo and Refa were pulling.




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** As pointed out above, not all Centauri know how they'll die, and not all of them fight like madmen. Then again, Londo ''did'' know how he'd die, so that would explain it.
* During the Earth-Minbari War the Minbari seemed to follow some of Clausewitz's dictates, namely 'political' attacks to weaken the enemy (the threats that isolated Earth from their allies and allowing Mars' rebellion) and aiming for the center of gravity (the ''Black Star'' was destroyed early in the war when raiding the ''Sol system''). Valen was originally a Terran soldier of British descent, with British military thinking having been greatly influenced by Clausewitz.
30th Jan '16 8:15:04 AM hamonrye
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* Londo is the Prime Minister and the heir to the throne, but he still has to take commercial transports to get back to homeworld. The Centauri seem really cheap. Also, G'Kar talks about booking a seat next to Londo. (He calls the aisle seat, har har.) Don't they have sleeper cabins for a four-days trip? Especially on Centauri transports, they do have anti-grav. Drazi transports you might understand being strapped to a seat, they don't even have gravity!

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* Londo is the Prime Minister and the heir to the throne, but he still has to take commercial transports to get back to homeworld. The Centauri seem really cheap. Also, G'Kar talks about booking a seat next to Londo. (He calls the aisle seat, har har.) Don't they have sleeper cabins for a four-days trip? Especially on Centauri transports, they do have anti-grav. Drazi transports you might understand being strapped to a seat, they don't even have gravity!gravity!
** On Zhabar (Drazi homeworld), Garibaldi is attacked by some guys in black cloaks. He grabs a button off one of them which Londo identifies (after randomly walking into a meeting in Sheridan's office) as coming from the coat of a Centauri royal guard. Why were the guards sent ''[[VillainBall in-uniform]]'' on a covert mission?
30th Jan '16 7:59:48 AM hamonrye
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** Likely the standard Minbari protocol when dealing with outside races has been changed to "keep gunports closed" in order to prevent such a misunderstanding from happening again. Neroon's ship was a special circumstance; it was carrying the body of Shai Alyt Bramner, and Neroon himself is shown to be a racist from the get-go (believing humans inferior, and [[PoorCommunicationKills refusing to explain his actions to them]]), so it's not a stretch to believe that he saw Minbari traditions as taking precedence over outside-contact protocol. Delenn, of course, has firsthand knowledge of the pitfalls of this particular tradition, and once she realized what was happening, she moved quickly to prevent a misunderstanding.

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** Likely the standard Minbari protocol when dealing with outside races has been changed to "keep gunports closed" in order to prevent such a misunderstanding from happening again. Neroon's ship was a special circumstance; it was carrying the body of Shai Alyt Bramner, and Neroon himself is shown to be a racist from the get-go (believing humans inferior, and [[PoorCommunicationKills refusing to explain his actions to them]]), so it's not a stretch to believe that he saw Minbari traditions as taking precedence over outside-contact protocol. Delenn, of course, has firsthand knowledge of the pitfalls of this particular tradition, and once she realized what was happening, she moved quickly to prevent a misunderstanding.misunderstanding.
* Londo is the Prime Minister and the heir to the throne, but he still has to take commercial transports to get back to homeworld. The Centauri seem really cheap. Also, G'Kar talks about booking a seat next to Londo. (He calls the aisle seat, har har.) Don't they have sleeper cabins for a four-days trip? Especially on Centauri transports, they do have anti-grav. Drazi transports you might understand being strapped to a seat, they don't even have gravity!
13th Oct '15 6:30:22 PM DrImpossible
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* The Vorlon method of teaching the younger races doesn't work and never would! Just look at the Minbari, the only race we know to have significant long term influence by the Vorlons, they seem to have barely progressed technologically in the thousand years since the last Shadow war. The Vorlon teachings make a society so disciplined and rigid that there's little room for creative thought which leads to few innovations and improvements. Sure, to a Vorlon taking a few thousand years to progress is not a concern, but their immortal, the younger races can't do that because they don't live long enough to benefit from that kind of lifestyle. You'll notice that every single advancement we know of from the Minbari occured due to direct alien influence (Valen restructured Minbari society and made all the castes equal, the Vorlons allowed the Minbari to use some of their technology to creat the White Stars and everything that happens to them during the series happens due to Delenn's constant contact with humans). Notice how humanity managed to come up with ships that can fight and destroy White Stars in a little over a decade after being completely ineffective against the Minbari during their war? And all they had to work with was one Shadow ship for a couple of years, while the Minbari had Vorlon access for centuries and still needed the Vorlons to directly give them the technology. While the Shadows' methods go too far as well their methods actually do get results it's just they go too far and get themselves destroyed.
** While that's a nice HumansAreSpecial notion, it is actually not really true. Most of humanity's advanced technology is of alien origin. Canonically, they initially obtained jump gate[=/=]drive technology from the Centauri. The Narns sold them Centauri knock-off weaponry during the Earth-Minbari War. They were ''given'' artificial gravity technology when they joined the Interstellar Alliance. Sheriden convinced the Minbari to also provide the technology that went into building the ''[[Series/{{Crusade}} Excalibur]]''. Anna Sheriden worked for Interplanetary Expeditions, a corporation that did alien archaeology for the express purpose of finding technology. Plus the Shadows furnished some technology behind the scenes as well, in addition to what Earth was able to locate and study. Trading for alien technology was a common part of interstellar commerce. So, really, most of humanity's major advances were the result of reverse-engineering or direct technology transfer from alien sources. The pace of development ''seemed'' very rapid. But that was because there was a ''lot'' more alien technology that exceeded humanity's than there was that exceeded the Minbari's. Really, the ''only'' technology more advanced than the Minbari's own was that of the various First One races. Hence they had to do more of their own R&D, and had fewer sources of advanced tech that they could simply study. If the Shadow's philosophy was better, it was only because it had caused so many other races to advance so far that by the time humans first encountered the Centauri, there was a ''huge'' amount of alien technology to be had.
*** HumansAreSpecial was not the point I was making. The point was the Vorlons' influence slowed progress to the point where it took an outside perspective to advance forward. What other races did was irrelevant to the point as Minbari society was the only society we know of that had long term Vorlon influence.
** Which is the whole point of finding a "balance between order and chaos", as Delenn had said in "Into the Fire". "Who are you" and "what do you want" are both fundamentally important questions for all sentient beings, defining where you stand and where you are going, respectively. Focusing on just one without the other each carry its own set of dysfunctions. As an old saying goes: "give your children both roots, and wings."

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* The Vorlon method of teaching the younger races doesn't work and never would! Just look at the Minbari, the only race we know to have significant long term influence by the Vorlons, they seem to have barely progressed technologically in the thousand years since the last Shadow war. The Vorlon teachings make a society so disciplined and rigid that there's little room for creative thought which leads to few innovations and improvements. Sure, to a Vorlon taking a few thousand years to progress is not a concern, but their immortal, the younger races can't do that because they don't live long enough to benefit from that kind of lifestyle. You'll notice that every single advancement we know of from the Minbari occured due to direct alien influence (Valen restructured Minbari society and made all the castes equal, the Vorlons allowed the Minbari to use some of their technology to creat the White Stars and everything that happens to them during the series happens due to Delenn's constant contact with humans). Notice how humanity managed to come up with ships that can fight and destroy White Stars in a little over a decade after being completely ineffective against the Minbari during their war? And all they had to work with was one Shadow ship for a couple of years, while the Minbari had Vorlon access for centuries and still needed the Vorlons to directly give them the technology. While the Shadows' methods go too far as well their methods actually do get results it's just they go too far and get themselves destroyed.
** While that's a nice HumansAreSpecial notion, it is actually not really true. Most of humanity's advanced technology is of alien origin. Canonically, they initially obtained jump gate[=/=]drive technology from the Centauri.
destroyed. The Narns sold them Centauri knock-off weaponry during the Earth-Minbari War. They were ''given'' artificial gravity technology when they joined the Interstellar Alliance. Sheriden convinced the Minbari to also provide the technology that went into building the ''[[Series/{{Crusade}} Excalibur]]''. Anna Sheriden worked for Interplanetary Expeditions, a corporation that did alien archaeology for the express purpose of finding technology. Plus the Shadows furnished some technology behind the scenes as well, in addition to what Earth was able to locate and study. Trading for alien technology was a common part of interstellar commerce. So, really, most of humanity's major advances were the result of reverse-engineering or direct technology transfer from alien sources. The pace of development ''seemed'' very rapid. But that was because there was a ''lot'' more alien technology that exceeded humanity's than there was that exceeded the Minbari's. Really, the ''only'' technology more advanced than the Minbari's own was that of the various First One races. Hence they had to do more of their own R&D, and had fewer sources of advanced tech that they could simply study. If the Shadow's philosophy was better, it was only because it had caused so many other races to advance so far that by the time humans first encountered the Centauri, there was a ''huge'' amount of alien technology to be had.
*** HumansAreSpecial was not the point I was making. The point was the Vorlons' influence slowed progress to the point where it took an outside perspective to advance forward. What other races did was irrelevant to the point as Minbari society was the only society we know of that had long term Vorlon influence.
** Which
series is the whole point of about finding a "balance between order and chaos", as Delenn had said in "Into the Fire". "Who are you" and "what do you want" are both fundamentally important questions for all sentient beings, defining where you stand and where you are going, respectively. Focusing on just one without the other each carry its own set of dysfunctions. As an old saying goes: "give your children both roots, and wings."
13th Oct '15 6:24:13 PM DrImpossible
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* Pretty much the entire first episode, Midnight on the Firing Line. All of it.
17th Sep '15 10:24:44 PM ImpudentInfidel
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* Connected to the previous, Centauri pilots and Londo specifically are noted to be ''complete madmen'' in dangerous situations. Taking turns so violent the pilot blacks out but has an advantagous position when he comes too is apparently standard procedure according to what we hear during a Starfury training exercise. If they already know in advance if they'll die in combat or not, either way they'll naturally act like they have nothing to lose.
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