History DethroningMoment / DragonBall

!!Dragon Ball Minus
* Tropers/{{supernintendo128}}: For me, it's that ''Dragon Ball Minus'' {{Retcon}}s Goku's already established backstory from the DBZ Bardock special (Not-Canon). In the special, Goku was sent to earth on a mission to wipe out all the humans shortly after he was born and right before Planet Vegeta is destroyed. In Dragon Ball Minus, Goku, when he was just 3 years old, was sent to Earth by his parents a month before Planet Vegeta is destroyed to save him from Frieza. It contradicts the anime in a few ways: Why is Goku a newborn when Grandpa Gohan finds him in the woods and why does he at first act hostile towards Grandpa Gohan when he wasn't ordered to wipe out the humans? At first you would think that it's Saiyan instinct but as Gine clearly demonstrates, not all Saiyans are violent. Not to mention that it is implied that Goku inherited his good-hearted nature from Gine. Not only that, but Goku's backstory went from being similar to [[Franchise/{{Superman}} Superman's]] backstory to being an outright ripoff.

* Tropers/Loekman3: When I saw Toppo's profile stating that he's strong enough to be scouted as a candidate as a God of Destruction, I was really hyped and I was honestly surprised when he was the one who watched the exhibition instead of Jiren as it was advertised. So then after Goku defeated a powered-up Bergamo in his SSBKK, Toppo decided to step in and challenge him in spite of this. Given how unlikeable Goku was in that moment I honestly rooted for Toppo to either defeat or at the very least put up a good fight. But all that hype goes out of the window where once Goku goes SSB, Toppo didn't even land a single blow and even though the narrative claims that they're evenly matched, Toppo's ClothingDamage makes it clear that Goku is clearly better than him and I hated that. Heck, Bergamo put up a much better fight than him. This fight scene single-handedly destroyed Toppo's reputation to me and I can never take him seriously anymore. True he did become a God of Destruction later on but he got defeated in the next episode anyway without eliminating anyone. The way I see it, it's as if Jiren is so much stronger than the entirety of the Pride Troopers combined then multiplied by some which makes you wonder why they're even there in the first place.

* Troper/{{RobHas}}: One filler episode which saw Vegeta [[KickTheDog provoking Gohan by gloating about Goku/Kakarot's M.I.A. status post-Namek explosion]]. He did not stop at mocking Goku, the one who got his life spared thanks to Goku begged Krillin to do so, [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown he also beat the living hell out of]] [[WouldHurtAChild Gohan for no legitimate reason]]. For all Vegeta's faults, he had never done something like that in the manga version. [[https://mangadog.club/read/dragon-ball/ch329/5195.html As proven in Chapter 329, Vegeta was the one who suggest that Goku's return is not impossible, and that he actually wanted to see Goku again albeit for his own benefit]]. One of Vegeta's [[CharacterDevelopment character development]] was sacrificed in an unnecessary attempt of padding the show.

* RAZ: The ending of the Cell saga. After transforming into Super Saiyan 2 form, Gohan decides to be a stupid, selfish idiot, ignore everyone with common sense, and drag things with Cell out, which ultimately winds up endangering all of Earth when Cell nearly explodes and as a result winds up getting Goku killed from his dumbassery. Gee, is it any wonder why readers weren't all that apt about having him play the role of TheHero after that? And aside from that, the way Cell comes back even stronger for one last match (magically in his Perfect form no less), via the Namekian regenerative cells from Piccolo that he has in him--- an ability that, I might add, has been repeatedly stated in the past to drain one's energy when it's used, which if anything would have made him weaker by that point! But nope, the usual rules are ignored in his favor so he can curbstorm everyone and even successfully wound Gohan just to try to amp up the question of if they'll make it or not. The end result is a horrible mess of a conclusion that leaves one rancid taste in my mouth.

* TyeDyeWildebeest: The treatment of the (non saiyan) Z fighters during the Cell Games was especially sickening. Chiaotzu didn't even show up, and the rest of them might as well have stayed home for all the difference they made. At one point during Cell and Gohan's [[BeamOWar kamehameha battle]], Piccolo, Krillin, Tien and Yamcha all decide to attack Cell at once to give Gohan more of an edge. All of them, ''combined'', only manage to mildly annoy Cell, and in the end it's a single attack by Vegeta that gives Gohan the opening he needs. It'd be one thing if they were just DemotedToExtra, but at this point, it seemed like the writers were going out of their way to show how hopelessly inferior they were to the saiyans.

* Dephlogisticate: Vegeta's sacrifice in the Majin Buu Saga; when he uses Final Explosion, which is essentially the equivalent of a nuclear warhead going off, Majin Buu manages to regenerate. Vegeta's redeeming moment: Wasted

* {{MsCC93}}: I think Chi-Chi’s UndignifiedDeath in the Majin Buu Saga counts. While it was an understandable MamaBear reaction due to her believing Gohan was dead, it was still undeniably stupid. I would like to point out that fans usually say that Yamcha’s death in the hands of a Saibaman in the Saiyan Arc was the most embarrassing death, but I disagree. This is due to the fact that it wasn’t even Yamcha’s fault he died. Chi-Chi, on the other hand, brought her own death on herself. This is another reason why Chi-Chi is one of my least favorite characters (I am aware she has good qualities, though)...simply because she was wasted potential and she was deliberately made to be the “mean mother” and unlikable [[StrawmanHasAPoint when she is actually in the right sometimes]].

** WhyNotNow: There's a reason many die-hard fans such as myself consider the Buu Saga a total failure, cool in some ways, but a huge flop overall, weak in storytelling and abominable in characterization, but the crowning moment for this "honor" that exemplifies everything that was wrong with the Buu Saga and indeed late ''Anime/DragonBallZ'' had to be Goku just leaving his sons behind to die on Earth at the hands of Majin Buu when he very easily had the power to save them. The plot {{Hand Wave}}s this by never bringing it up again and implying that since they can be revived from death that it totally nullifies the downright evil crime Goku committed of letting his own flesh and blood die. Now, not only does this make death utterly meaningless on a level never seen before in ''Anime/DragonBallZ'' (not even in previous sagas), but it ignores the fact that there are some acts [[ThisIsUnforgivable you just can't come back from]]. Knowingly letting a family member die is perhaps the darkest and most sadistic thing a villain can do, never mind the HERO of your goddamn story! It's utter failure on Goku's part and proof that he is perhaps the worst father ever, that he only viewed his family as more of an afterthought next to fighting and adventuring, and that just because something is easily fixed doesn't mean there isn't lingering pain. If a real life father left one of his OWN CHILDREN to die, that child could never look at the father the same way again, and it also negates the "Larger-Than-Life God Even Among Gods" image they were trying to give Goku in the final chapter of DBZ, because a true paragon of morality would look after his own and choose his family, not a fraud who insulted and dishonored them for seven years and an alien child he barely knows. All around fucking fail.

* {{JM1982}}: Yamcha has been repeatedly shat on by creators and fans alike, but ''Resurrection F'' offered a HopeSpot that he might be able to earn some battle glory alongside the other human Z fighters by helping out in the battle against Frieza's army. Instead, the long tradition of Yamcha receiving sickening treatment From the writers continues with the revelation that he's unable to help out against an army of {{Mooks}} that Krillin and Gohan were flattening as far back as the Namek Saga. You know it's bad when he doesn't even show up in the ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'' adaptation. And now, just to twist the knife even further in ''Super'', they have Yamcha eagerly expecting an invitation to participate in the Multiverse Tournament, when we all know he never will.
* ThatsNumberwang: For me, the DMOS was bringing back Frieza as such a powerful enemy as it completely stretches credulity. The first time around, Frieza was defeated effortlessly by Super Saiyan 1 Trunks and given a firm kicking by the (presumably at the time) far weaker Super Saiyan 1 Goku. Now, after what we are told is a training cycle of a few months, Frieza is capable of fighting on par with a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which makes him one of the strongest fighters in the history of the universe. Or, in other words, he went from weaker than a regular Super Saiyan to being stronger than a Super Saiyan second and third grade, a full-power Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 2, a Super Saiyan 3 and the fused characters like Vegito and Gotenks all in the space of a few months. And what is even more ridiculous is this cycle of Super Saiyan transformations didn't take place in a training room, it took place over a decade whilst fighting for their lives against enemies that eclipsed Frieza's original power level by thousands.

* {{Bobg}}: In ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', the creators do something that honestly feels like a spit in the face to Gohan fans. After the Resurrection F arc, Gohan decided to go back to training to get back all his strength that he lost after going five years without training, in an apparent ThrowTheDogABone to Gohan fans. In episode 52, it's revealed that that was nothing but a lie. It's stated that Gohan has given up trying to regain his strength, and doesn't give a shit anymore. Even Piccolo, the guy who was training with him says as much. They also reveal that even after the 8 months of training that he did do, his base form is still not as powerful as his SS2 form was back in the Cell saga, even though he had his potential unlocked and can only go SS1 now. It seems like they gave us a HopeSpot just to pull the rug out from under us. It's also bullshit because Gohan went through the hell of almost losing his family specifically because he had gotten too weak to defend them due to his lack of training. This implies that not even the desire to protect his family was enough to keep him going for more than 8 months. After what he went through, no normal person would continue to slack off if it meant they couldn't defend their family. It feels like a combination of CharacterDerailment (as Gohan is supposed to want to be able to protect his family), and the creators of the show giving us a HopeSpot only to pull the rug out from under us and spit in our faces.

* TheGingerArtist: Going into ''Super'', I was hyped up over it just like most long-time fans. But throughout the show, I've just been finding it to be at best a mediocre sequel with a few good and interesting moments, but it was otherwise subpar compared to ''Dragon Ball Z''. But then came the ending of the Future Trunks Arc. After Zamasu is slashed in half, he becomes an EldritchAbomination that infects the universe and [[KillEmAll kills off all the mortals sans Future Trunks and Mai]]. Zen'o is forced to wipe out that universe, and Whis breaks the rules and interferes with another universe to prevent what occurred in Trunks' original future verse from happening there, just so Trunks and Mai can go live there. This is treated as an BittersweetEnding and EarnYourHappyEnding... ...When really, it's a goddamn DownerEnding. Everything Trunks did in ''Dragon Ball Z'' was for nothing. Everyone Trunks knew in his timeline isn't just [[KilledOffForReal dead]] -- they're [[DeaderThanDead completely gone]] because the afterlife in that universe was also destroyed. Trunks failed to protect the future and uphold Gohan's legacy. It's a horrible ending -- but we're supposed to feel happy for Trunks and Mai, since they're going into another future verse and everything is alright there? If anything, the fact that ''Super'' is trying to downplay Trunks' loss by having him go to another universe that was just like his before Zamasu came in is even worse. What was the point of the sacrifice when you're just trying to replace it? The ending was so unsatisfying and infuriating, it finally killed this fucking series for me, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back for me when it came to ''Super''.
** Tropers/Kantonkage: The fact that they don't use the Dragon Balls to revive Trunks' world really pissed me off. How many times have the Dragon Balls being used to revive the poor victims caused by Goku (and to a lesser extent, Vegeta's) fuck-ups? Yet Trunks gets punished for selflessly breaking a ridiculous taboo.

* IlyaRysenkov: I lost quite a bit of my respect for Goku when it turns out that he was the one who hired Hit to kill himself. I admit, Chi-Chi can be really overbearing and annoying, but she's his wife! No doubt she'll take it hard if he died for real! (And she did.) Gohan and Goten's reaction are basically the same as hers, though they came to support his idea (which is frustrating). While I generally find this episode very interesting, this is one of the lowest points here for me.
* Loekman3: When I saw Toppo's profile stating that he's strong enough to be scouted as a candidate as a God of Destruction, I was really hyped and I was honestly surprised when he was the one who watched the exhibition instead of Jiren as it was advertised. So then after Goku defeated a powered-up Bergamo in his SSBKK, Toppo decided to step in and challenge him in spite of this. Given how unlikeable Goku was in that moment I honestly rooted for Toppo to either defeat or at the very least put up a good fight. But all that hype goes out of the window where once Goku goes SSB, Toppo didn't even land a single blow and even though the narrative claims that they're evenly matched, Toppo's ClothingDamage makes it clear that Goku is clearly better than him and I hated that. Heck, Bergamo put up a much better fight than him. This fight scene single-handedly destroyed Toppo's reputation to me and I can never take him seriously anymore. True he did become a God of Destruction later on but he got defeated in the next episode anyway without eliminating anyone. The way I see it, it's as if Jiren is so much stronger than the entirety of the Pride Troopers combined then multiplied by some which makes you wonder why they're even there in the first place.

* AznPinoy: Okay, sure, it makes sense for Frieza to be the 10th warrior instead of Buu now, but does that mean Goku shouldn't forget all the evil things he did? Let's put it this way, at Episode 95, he got hit by the ball of destruction and said that he forgot Frieza could be a real scumbag. Let's remember what Frieza did: killed billions of people, enslaved others, tortured innocents, tortured Krillin and Gohan (twice), killed Krillin and threatened Gohan, destroyed Namek and Earth, and you FORGOT THAT HE WAS AN EVIL SCUMBAG? [[SarcasmMode Looks like Goku's idea on the 10th warrior is getting better.]]

** Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: To me, [[SpacetimeEater Infinite Zamasu]] is TheScrappy of ''Super''. It's ''Dragon Ball'''s worst AssPull so far, it takes Zamasu's already-bad {{Invincible Villain}}y UpToEleven, and it kickstarts this Saga's widespread EndingAversion.

* Loekman3: When I saw Toppo's profile stating that he's strong enough to be scouted as a candidate as a God of Destruction, I was really hyped and I was honestly surprised when he was the one who watched the exhibition instead of Jiren as it was advertised. So then after Goku defeated a powered-up Bergamo in his SSBKK, Toppo decided to step in and challenge him in spite of this. Given how unlikeable Goku was in that moment I honestly rooted for Toppo to either defeat or at the very least prove himself as a truly worthy adversary. But all that hype goes out of the window where once Goku goes SSB, Toppo didn't even land a single blow and even though the narrative claims that they're evenly matched, Toppo's ClothingDamage makes it clear that Goku is clearly better than him and I hated that. This fight scene single-handedly destroyed Toppo's reputation to me and I can never take him seriously anymore. True he did become a God of Destruction later on but he got defeated in the next episode anyway without eliminating anyone. The way I see it, it's like Jiren is so much stronger than the entirety of the Pride Troopers combined then multiplied by some.

* Loekman3: While I truly enjoy episode 130 for the fight between Goku and Jiren, especially with the former finally managing to defeat him at full power, one moment that leaves a really bitter taste for my mouth is TheReveal that [[spoiler:Android 17 actually managed to survive his HeroicSacrifice]]. What the hell, Toei? He already has an effective send-off, one of the best HeroicSacrifice of the series so having him turn out to be fine really cheapens the impact and turn Universe 7 into a big PlotArmor. Not to mention if [[spoiler:Android 17]] actually turned out to be fine, you'd think that he'd save Vegeta from his elimination and continue to pressure Jiren as he continues to stall for time.

* TyeDyeWildebeest: The treatment of the (non saiyan) Z fighters during the Cell Games was especially sickening. Chiaotzu didn't even show up, and the rest of them might as well have stayed home for all the difference they made. At one point during Cell and Gohan's [[BeamOWar kamehameha battle]], Piccolo, Krillin, Tien and Yamcha all decide to attack Cell at once to give Gohan more of an edge. All of them, ''combined'', only manage to mildly annoy Cell, and in the end it's a single attack by Vegeta that gives Gohan the opening he needs. It'd be one thing if they were just DemotedToExtra, but at this point it seemed like the writers were going out of their way to show how hopelessly inferior they were to the saiyans.

* Tropers/{{SSj-Protoman}}: This one is a personal one for me, but there is one moment that really gets on my nerves in the Buu saga (As much of a clusterfuck as it already is.) That moment is that whole "Life-force Stop-n-Swop" nonsense really late into it. Why is this? Because it was never brought up again! Why can't other Kais use this to bring back some really important fighters to help out during the really grueling battles? Why couldn't Elder Kai have told the other Kais about this technique before being sealed into the Z-Sword? Why didn't something like this happen with Trunks' timeline to bring back Piccolo to re-gather the Dragon Balls, and restore Earth back to the way it was after the Android threat was over and done with? And, if the Shin Budokai games are anything to go by, why couldn't they have done this for the redeemed Saiyans, like Bardock and Gine? The answer is... Never explained! All this bullshit is is just one giant ass-pull excuse to bring Goku back just to shut the fans up!

* Tropers/DrZulu2010: For me, it has to be Goku's decision to choose Mr Satan and Dende over his children and Piccolo during the Majin Buu saga. While in hindsight, Satan turns out to be essential about Kid Buu's ultimate defeat, that still doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. Let's put that on another light. What if Piccolo was the one who goes to Namek and tell his race of what happened while Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten and Trunks could face off Kid Buu in an epic final showdown. Can you imagine the awesomness it could turn out to be?

* Isaac_Heller: Gohan getting absorbed by Buu, and subsequently Goku's defeat of Buu,. ''All'' that build-up, ''all'' that time spent on Gohan, those hours trying to pull out the Z sword and then just sitting in front of an old guy who can awaken his innermost power - [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot completely and utterly WASTED]] because Toryiama up and decided that only Goku can be the hero, with Vegeta as the perpetual runner-up, a trend that got even worse by the time ''Super'' came around. It's also ridiculous that a kamikaze explosion from Vegeta, Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation, the much-hyped Gotenks and ''his'' Super Saiyan 3 transformation, Mystic-Powered Gohan, and the ''fusion of Goku and Vegeta'' couldn't kill Buu, but one really big Spirit Bomb fired by Goku at regular power does it. [[FlatWhat What?]]

* Tropers/{{Falconwing}}: ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'' was full of all sorts of things to bitch about. But none was more infuriating than the incomprehensible decision to retcon the story behind Planet Vegeta's destruction. Instead of Freeza blowing up the planet out of fear of a Super Saiyan. He was ordered by Beerus to do it for the most pettiest of reasons. Not only does it make Freeza look like a total pussy, it made Vegeta, and Goku's battles with him utterly pointless.

* ThatsNumberwang: For me, the DMOS was bringing back Frieza as such a powerful enemy as it completely stretches credulity. The first time around Frieza was defeated effortlessly by Super Saiyan 1 Trunks and given a firm kicking by the (presumably at the time) far weaker Super Saiyan 1 Goku. Now, after what we are told is a training cycle of a few months, Frieza is capable of fighting on par with a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which makes him one of the strongest fighters in the history of the universe. Or in other words he went from weaker than a regular Super Saiyan to being stronger than a Super Saiyan second and third grade, a full-power Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 2, a Super Saiyan 3 and the fused characters like Vegito and Gotenks all in the space of a few months. And what is even more ridiculous is this cycle of Super Saiyan transformations didn't take place in a training room, it took place over a decade whilst fighting for their lives against enemies that eclipsed Frieza's original power level by thousands.

* {{Bobg}}: In ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'', the creators do something that honestly feels like a spit in the face to Gohan fans. After the Resurrection F arc, Gohan decided to go back to training to get back all his strength that he lost after going five years without training, in an apparent ThrowTheDogABone to Gohan fans. In episode 52, it's revealed that that was nothing but a lie. It's stated that Gohan has given up trying to regain his strength, and doesn't give a shit anymore. Even Piccolo, the guy who was training with him says as much. They also reveal that even after the 8 months of training that he did do, his base form is still not as powerful as his ss2 form was back in the Cell saga, even though he had his potential unlocked and can only go ss1 now. It seems like they gave us a HopeSpot just to pull the rug out from under us. It's also bullshit because Gohan went through the hell of almost losing his family specifically because he had gotten too weak to defend them due to his lack of training. This implies that not even the desire to protect his family was enough to keep him going for more than 8 months. After what he went through, no normal person would continue to slack off if it meant they couldn't defend their family. It feels like a combination of CharacterDerailment (as Gohan is supposed to want to be able to protect his family), and the creators of the show giving us a HopeSpot only to pull the rug out from under us and spit in our faces.

*** [=LSSJ2Gohan=] To complement the two previous points. The very worst of Episode 52. Look at Gohan's appearance. That "god-awful butch cut" and the shape of his eyes. He's in his Mystic Form... You mean to tell me Mystic Gohan is now weaker than he was all the way back to the Cell Games!? For shame, Toei! It's like you want to screw with Gohan!
* TheGingerArtist: Going into ''Super'', I was hyped up over it just like most long-time fans. But throughout the show, I've just been finding it to be at best a mediocre sequel with a few good and interesting moments, but it was otherwise subpar compared to Dragon Ball Z. But then came the ending of the Future Trunks Arc. After Zamasu is slashed in half, he becomes an EldritchAbomination that infects the universe and [[KillEmAll kills off all the mortals sans Future Trunks and Mai]]. Zen'o is forced to wipe out that universe, and Whis breaks the rules and interferes with another universe to prevent what occurred in Trunks' original future verse from happening there, just so Trunks and Mai can go live there. This is treated as an BittersweetEnding and EarnYourHappyEnding ... when really, it's a goddamn DownerEnding. Everything Trunks did in Dragon Ball Z was for nothing. Everyone Trunks knew in his timeline isn't just [[KilledOffForReal dead]] -- they're [[DeaderThanDead completely gone]] because the afterlife in that universe was also destroyed. Trunks failed to protect the future and uphold Gohan's legacy. It's a horrible ending -- but we're supposed to feel happy for Trunks and Mai, since they're going into another future verse and everything is alright there? If anything, the fact that ''Super'' is trying to downplay Trunks' loss by having him go to another universe that was just like his before Zamasu came in is even worse. What was the point of the sacrifice when you're just trying to replace it? The ending was so unsatisfying and infuriating, it finally killed this fucking series for me, and it was the straw that broke the camels back for me when it came to ''Super''.
** Tropers/Kantonkage: The fact that they don't use the Dragon balls to revive Trunks' world really pissed me off. How many times have the Dragon balls being used to revive the poor victims caused by Goku (and to a lesser extent Vegeta's) fuck ups. Yet Trunks gets punished for selflessly breaking a ridiculous taboo.

* Breakingchains: Episode 68, "Come Forth, Shenron! Whose Wish Will Be Granted?" ends in a massive slap in the face for Bulma. Admittedly, I'm a little bitter about Bulma being underutilized and unappreciated, and I've been enjoying how ''Super'' brings her back to form after she spent so long being treated as either a shrieking burden or entirely irrelevant. So I may be biased, but I still feel the ending to this episode is completely unfair. Time travel is considered a sin and is taboo among the gods, but Bulma is intent on fixing her time machine, for the sake of intellectual interest if nothing else. When she is found out, Beerus destroys the element she needs for her time machine, then the time machine itself, and a good chunk of her lab along with it. And for some horrible reason this is played for laughs! Hell, Beerus realized he was guilty of the same "sin" one episode ago and let Trunks off the hook for it; more importantly, the entire anime up to this point is soaked with themes of daring to challenge on the unearned authority of this entire pantheon. Why am I supposed to laugh when Bulma's small act of rebellion gets her lab destroyed and leaves her crying on the ground?
* IlyaRysenkov: I lost quite a bit of my respect for Goku when it turns out that he was the one who hired to Hit to kill himself. I admit, Chi-Chi can be really overbearing and annoying, but she's his wife! No doubt she'll take it hard if he died for real! (And she did.) Gohan and Goten's reaction are basically the same as hers , though they came to support his idea (which is frustrating). While I generally find this episode very interesting, this is one of the lowest points here for me.
* [[=cookieman=]]: I feel like the unnecessary filler episode where Android 17 and Goku go to fight the alien poachers has one of the worst DMOS in a while ... they warp into King Kai's planet when they're under the impression that the poacher leader is a timebomb. Goku just casually laughs it off saying that King Kai should be used to it by now. Hello? What's wrong with this picture? Shortly after the Future Trunks Saga, Goku tried to revive King Kai in an episode that ended up being a ShaggyDogStory, then Goku suddenly wants King Kai to die again. Oh ... if he, Gregory, and Bubbles die AFTER already being dead, they're DeaderThanDead. Didn't Goku realize that? Thankfully Dende revealed the villain's "timebomb" act as a bluff. Maybe characters like Toppo, Bergamo, and Zamasu are right in considering Goku "evil" at times.
* AznPinoy: Okay, sure it makes sense for Frieza to be the 10th warrior instead of Buu now, but does that mean Goku shouldn't forget all the evil things he did? Lets put it this way, at Episode 95, he got hit by the ball of destruction and said that he forgot Frieza could be a real scumbag. Lets remember what Frieza did: killed billions of people, enslaved others, tortured innocents, tortured Krillin and Gohan(twice), killed Krillin and threatened Gohan, destroyed Namek and Earth, and you FORGOT THAT HE WAS AN EVIL SCUMBAG? [[SarcasmMode Looks like Goku's idea on the 10th warrior is getting better.]]

* [=SenorCornholio=]: Changing/expanding on my previous moment, here, because Krillin really got the short end of the stick. We were shown that he's been taking his newfound training a lot more seriously, ringing out Gohan and even going one-on-one against Base Form Goku, and with 18 helping him out, he had even greater odds than ever before. Sounds like Krillin is finally getting some much-needed love, right? Well, the anime decided that apparently they weren't satisfied and turned Krillin into the new [[ButtMonkey Yamcha]]. It was bad enough when Krillin had to be threatened with [[DeaderThanDead being hakai'd out of existence]] after being too scared to participate due to the threat of the universe being destroyed, but then come the tournament proper and Krillin actually does pretty good... Which only lasts 3 episodes before he's unceremoniously kicked out of the ring by Frost (you heard me, [[DirtyCoward Frost]]) in a way that could have been avoided. Namely, he got overconfident long enough to let his guard down; that in itself is a problem with ''Super'' as a whole that the characters have to be made incompetent for them to actually lose, but that's beside the point. Beerus, 17, and 18 then waste no time in laying into the poor guy for his failures which, [[LampshadeHanging though possibly venting off some of the viewers' frustrations]], came off as far too mean-spirited for a franchise like Dragon Ball. I understand [[JerkassGods Beerus]] getting upset, and Android 17 commenting on how lame that performance was seemed perfectly in character, but 18 [[TookALevelInJerkass took a huge level in jerkass]] for that moment, angrily chewing out Krillin and outright saying "You call yourself my husband?!" [[FelonyMisdemeanor just for briefly letting his guard down]]. When Krillin had to be coerced into joining the tournament, that should have been a sign that the anime suddenly had nothing but ill intent for Krillin; seriously, he lasted a shorter time than Master Roshi, and ''he'' lost relevance far earlier. He might as well have never even participated to begin with, if this is how the show treats him.
* [=Schonberg=]: If Krillin got the short end of the stick, Tenshinhan doesn't even HAVE a stick anymore. In the original Dragon Ball, he was one of the most powerful characters in the canon, able to fight near evenly with Goku, besting Yamcha and Master Roshi, and had a slew of attacks from the powerful and fast Dodon Ray, the multiple arms technique, multiple bodies, psychic powers, the deadly and self sacrificing Kikoho/Tri-Beam, the crafty Solar Flare, as well as being one of the first characters able to fly. In Z he received similar treatment as the other humans, being given small moments to shine such as dealing a strong blow to Nappa and holding back Semi-Perfect Cell, before disappearing until a single failed attack against Super Buu. In ''Super''? When it comes time for the Tournament of Power, Goku and the gang list off potential members. They think of Android 17, whom they haven't seen in nearly a decade (and Goku had NEVER met), Krillin, and even Master Roshi. By the end of the episode they've thought of 9 warriors, which would comprise the final team (and Buu)... but not Tenshinhan. Tien was only added because Goku found out Master Roshi was waiting at Tenshinhan's new dojo. To add further insult to injury, each member of the Tournament of Power team got at least one episode to show off how strong they'd gotten on their own (albeit with Krillin and 18 sharing an episode, and Gohan and Piccolo sharing one as well). In the episode Tenshinhan is recruited, he is beaten up by Master Roshi while Goku remarks at how powerful the old man had become. In the following episode, Goku and Tenshinhan face against Gohan and Piccolo to test their teamwork. Which results in Tenshinhan being taken out by a single punch from Gohan, and when he finally recovers enough to use a Kikoho Gohan stops him again. He's then left relatively out of focus until the Tournament of Power actually starts, and does nothing of note until he takes out The Preecho that Roshi was holding stunned. The next time Tenshinhan is seen he faces off with a sniper enemy, and decides to rush at the warrior with the multi-form technique, cutting his speed and power into 4. Not only do each of the clones get taken out, but [[IdiotBall Tenshinhan is then tricked off the stage as the sniper Hermilla blows up the ground beneath them both, resulting in Tenshinhan falling out of the ring,]] but not Hermilla who was closer to the edge than Tenshinhan was. While Tenshinhan uses the clones to drag his foe down with him, it doesn't make sense why this experienced martial arts genius would not leave a single clone on the stage as a lifeline instead of throwing them all down with him, let alone why he couldn't jump like Hermilla id to avoid the fall. He ends the tournament with the worst showing from Universe 7, participating in only one elimination and one team elimination. It's an utter shame to see what was once among the strongest characters in the canon be reduced to such a joke.

* [=GamingFan1997=]: [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter The treatment of Universe 4]]. While it was already clear that this universe would be one of the less relevant universes in the Tournament of Power, there was still some potential for some interesting developments during the Universe Survival arc, such as the two hidden fighters and the rivalry between Beerus and Quitela. Also, most of the fighters for that Universe had interesting designs or abilities, and the idea of them using stealth or deception to eliminate opposing fighters could have created a good amount of suspense. As for their ''actual'' role in the Tournament of Power... they pretty much ended up being a group of EliteMooks and nothing more. Seriously, just look at the episodes in which they were eliminated, and tell me you don't notice a pattern. Every time a fighter from Universe 4 was eliminated, it was when they were the focus antagonist for the episode (Nink being the sole exception, and he was one of the first fighters eliminated in the [=ToP=]), and aside frome Episode 119, it was as part of the focus episode for an already established character in the series, who would end up eliminating them in that episode[[note]]For reference, Shosa and Majora were eliminated by Krillin in Episode 99 (though 18 helped in the case of the former), Caway, Darkori, and Ganos were eliminated by Master Roshi in Episode 105 (though Caway technically eliminated herself), and Monna was eliminated by Cabba in Episode 112. Episode 119 marked the elimination of the remaining fighters from Universe 4.[[/note]]. On top of that, they had no real prominence in any episodes outside of the ones where they ''were'' the main threat of the episode, which is especially bad in the case of the hidden fighters, as we could have had them picking off fighters while they were still hidden[[note]]Such as during Kale's rampage in Episode 100 or the sniper attack in Episode 106, when no one would question someone being eliminated offscreen since someone else was already launching a huge assault across the entire arena.[[/note]], thereby building up suspense for when Universe 7 finally faces them. Finally, their last appearance in the Tournament of Power, Episode 119, was basically just more of the same: Universe 4 guys appear, give the protagonists some trouble, protagonists figure out their gimmick, Universe 4 guys get their asses kicked, end episode. What makes it ''worse'' than the previous episodes in which this happened is a) there wasn't really any development or focus for any of the characters this time around and b) this is supposed to be the episode where Universe 4 gets ''erased'', and yet it got no real sense of closure, something that all the universes that were erased up to this point had, even [[JokeCharacter Universe 10]]. Even the fact that they eliminated ''Piccolo'' is more or less brushed off; even if Universe 7 still has the majority of fighters left at this point in the tournament, you'd think the elimination of one of the main characters would have attracted a lot more attention. Overall, it just ended up feeling like Universe 4 was more or less filler, and the fact that so much potential was wasted just makes it feel all the more disappointing.
* Tropers/{{Tomodachi}}: You know, while I have heard a lot of fans praise the manga version of the Future Trunks saga, and I admit there are some moments I found much better than the anime, there have been two moments from the manga that just makes me realize ''Dragon Ball Super'' is NotSoDifferent from ''Gt'' in their problems. Basically, Trunks becoming a disciple of the Supreme Kai, and Goku obtaining a more powerful version of Super Saiyan Blue. I get it, people don't like Trunks getting new powers as the plot demands and his inconsistent power scaling, trust me I get it, but, why the hell is he demoted to extra in his own arc? His future got destroyed by Black and Zamasu, his mom was killed (Off-screen, by the way), and the best Toyotaro can think for him is making him a healer so that Goku, who doesn't have any interesting relationship with neither Zamasu (As Zamasu is more of a {{Foil}} to Trunks) or Goku Black (Who he never fights against), can obtain a new power up and defeat him himself? No... just no. Is ''Goku time'' all over again. The fact Trunks is all too quiet about his home erasure at the end of the arc is just pathetic. No tears? Nothing? What the hell Trunks?
* Loekman3: While I truly enjoy episode 130 for the fight between Goku and Jiren, especially with the former finally managing to defeat him at full power, one moment that leaves a really bitter taste for my mouth is TheReveal that [[spoiler:Android 17 actually managed to survive his HeroicSacrifice]]. What the hell Toei? He already has an effective send-off, one of the best HeroicSacrifice of the series so having him turn out to be fine really cheapens the impact and turn Universe 7 into a big PlotArmor. Not to mention if [[spoiler:Android 17]] actually turned out to be fine, you'd think that he'd save Vegeta from his elimination and continue to pressure Jiren as he continues to stall for time.

* TheGingerArtist: Going into ''Super'', I was hyped up over it just like most long-time fans. But throughout the show, I've just been finding it to be at best a mediocre sequel with a few good and interesting moments, but it was otherwise subpar compared to Dragon Ball Z. But what finally killed this fucking series for me was the ending of the Future Trunks Arc. After Zamasu is slashed in half, he becomes an EldritchAbomination that infects the universe and [[KillEmAll kills off all the mortals sans Future Trunks and Mai]]. Zen'o is forced to wipe out that universe, and Whis breaks the rules and interferes with another universe to prevent what occurred in Trunks' original future verse from happening there, just so Trunks and Mai can go live there. This is treated as an BittersweetEnding and EarnYourHappyEnding ... when really, it's a goddamn DownerEnding. Everything Trunks did in Dragon Ball Z was for nothing. Everyone Trunks knew in his timeline isn't just [[KilledOffForReal dead]] -- they're [[DeaderThanDead completely gone]] because the afterlife in that universe was also destroyed. Trunks failed to protect the future and uphold Gohan's legacy. It's a horrible ending -- but we're supposed to feel happy for Trunks and Mai, since they're going into another future verse and everything is alright there? If anything, the fact that ''Super'' is trying to downplay Trunks' loss by having him go to another universe that was just like his before Zamasu came in is even worse. What was the point of the sacrifice when you're just trying to replace it? The ending was so unsatisfying and infuriating, and it was the straw that broke the camels back for me when it came to ''Super''.

* AjWargo: In my opinion, the manga might still do some things better, but the Tournament of Power isn’t one of them. If I had to choose the worst part of it, it would be Kale eliminating ''nearly half the roster''. Seriously, why would you do that, Toyotaro? Most of these guys are already characters brimming with potential and you have Kale just remove nearly all of them? The worst part is when Anilaza is fused after Paparoni realizes how bad things are getting.... and Kale just eliminates him too anti-climatically. That has to be the biggest slap in the face for anyone who wanted to see a proper fight.

* Tropers/{{supernintendo128}}: For me, it's that ''Dragon Ball Minus'' {{Retcon}}s Goku's already established backstory from the DBZ Bardock special. In the special, Goku was sent to earth on a mission to wipe out all the humans shortly after he was born and right before Planet Vegeta is destroyed. In Dragon Ball Minus, Goku, when he was just 3 years old, was sent to Earth by his parents a month before Planet Vegeta is destroyed to save him from Frieza. It contradicts the anime and original manga in a few ways: Why is Goku a newborn when Grandpa Gohan finds him in the woods and why does he at first act hostile towards Grandpa Gohan when he wasn't ordered to wipe out the humans? At first you would think that it's Saiyan instinct but as Gine clearly demonstrates, not all Saiyans are violent. Not to mention that it is implied that Goku inherited his good-hearted nature from Gine. Not only that, but Goku's backstory went from being similar to [[Franchise/{{Superman}} Superman's]] backstory to being an outright ripoff.

* Troper/{{RobHas}}: One filler episode which saw Vegeta [[KickTheDog provoking Gohan by gloating about Goku/Kakarot's M.I.A. status post-Namek explosion]]. He did not stop at mocking Goku, the one who got his life spared thanks to Goku begged Krillin to do so, [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown he also beat the living hell out of]] [[WouldHurtAChild Gohan for no legitimate reason]]. For all Vegeta's faults, he had never done something like that in the manga version. [[https://mangadog.club/read/dragon-ball/ch329/5195.html As proved in Chapter 329, Vegeta was the one who suggest that Goku's return is not impossible, and that he actually wanted to see Goku again]]. One of Vegeta's [[CharacterDevelopment character development]] was sacrificed in an unnecessary attempt of padding the show.

!!Freeza Saga

* Troper/{{RobHas}}: One filler episode which saw Vegeta [[KickTheDog provoking Gohan by gloating about Goku/Kakarot's M.I.A. status post-Namek explosion]]. He did not stop at mocking Goku, the one who got his life spared thanks to Goku begged Krillin to do so, [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown he also beat the living hell out of]] [[WouldHurtAChild Gohan for no legitimate reason]]. This is nothing more than an unnecessary attempt of padding the show. For all Vegeta's faults, he had never done something like that in the manga version. [[https://mangadog.club/read/dragon-ball/ch329/5195.html As proved in Chapter 329, Vegeta actually wanted to see Goku again (albeit for some selfish reasons, but he did not gloat over Goku's disappearance]].

* Troper/{{RobHas}}: One filler episode which saw Vegeta [[KickTheDog provoking Gohan by gloating about Goku/Kakarot's M.I.A. status post-Namek explosion]]. He did not stop at mocking Goku, the one who got his life spared thanks to Goku begged Krillin to do so, [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown he also beat the living hell out of]] [[WouldHurtAChild Gohan for no legitimate reason]]. This is nothing more than an unnecessary attempt of padding the show. For all Vegeta's faults, he had never done something that in the manga version. [[https://mangadog.club/read/dragon-ball/ch329/5195.html As proved in Chapter 329, Vegeta actually wanted to see Goku again (albeit for some selfish reasons, but he did not gloat over Goku's disappearance]].

* {{MsCC93}}: I think Chi-Chi’s UndignifiedDeath in the Majin Buu Saga counts. While it was an understandable MamaBear reaction due to her believing Gohan was dead, it was still undeniably stupid. Now don’t get me wrong, I was always mixed with Chi-Chi’s character. At times, I find her completely understandable in her anger sometimes, and there are times I find her irritating. I would like to point out that fans usually say that Yamcha’s death in the hands of a Saibaman in the Saiyan Arc was the most embarrassing death, but I disagree. This is due to the fact that it wasn’t even Yamcha’s fault he died. Chi-Chi, on the other hand, brought her own death on herself. This is due to a few factors.
## She (along with the others) just witnessed Majin Buu perform a human extinction attack, which killed almost every human being on the planet. This should have been an indicator that Majin Buu is no joke and he’s dangerous.
## After disciplining Goten in a filler episode for recklessly rushing into a battle with Majin Buu (while Goten was fused with Trunks as Gotenks), she tearfully says that Goten is the only one she has left. Her slapping Super Buu in the face makes her out to be a hypocrite and it negates what she said.
## Piccolo warned everybody that nobody should do anything to provoke Majin Buu, but Chi-Chi stubbornly refuses to listen. He even tried holding her back many times, to boot. I always knew Chi-Chi wasn’t the brightest bulb in the room, and Toriyama intended to make her a joke character, but this scene sickens me because I would have never though she would make such a foolhardy decision like this.

** ThatsNumberwang: For me, the DMOS was bringing back Frieza as such a powerful enemy as it completely stretches credulity. The first time around Frieza was defeated effortlessly by Super Saiyan 1 Trunks and given a firm kicking by the (presumably at the time) far weaker Super Saiyan 1 Goku. Now, after what we are told is a training cycle of a few months, Frieza is capable of fighting on par with a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which makes him one of the strongest fighters in the history of the universe. Or in other words he went from weaker than a regular Super Saiyan to being stronger than a Super Saiyan second and third grade, a full-power Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 2, a Super Saiyan 3 and the fused characters like Vegito and Gotenks all in the space of a few months. And what is even more ridiculous is this cycle of Super Saiyan transformations didn't take place in a training room, it took place over a decade whilst fighting for their lives against enemies that eclipsed Frieza's original power level by thousands.

* RAZ: The ending of the Cell saga. After transforming into Super Saiyan 2 form, Gohan decides to be a stupid, selfish idiot, ignore everyone with common sense, and drag things with Cell out, which ultimately winds up endangering all of Earth when Cell nearly explodes and as a result winds up getting Goku killed from his dumbassery. Gee, is it any wonder why readers weren't all that apt about having him play the role of TheHero after that? And aside from that, Cell officially elevates himself to VillainSue status with the way he comes back even stronger for one last match (magically in his Perfect form no less), via the Namekian regenerative cells from Piccolo that he has in him--- an ability that, I might add, has been repeatedly stated in the past to drain one's energy when it's used, which if anything would have made him weaker by that point! But nope, the usual rules are ignored in his favor so he can curbstorm everyone and even successfully wound Gohan just to try to amp up the question of if they'll make it or not. The end result is a horrible mess of a conclusion that leaves one rancid taste in my mouth.

* Tropers/{{Falconwing}}: ''Anime/DragonBallZBattleOfGods'' was full of all sorts of things to bitch about. But none was more infuriating than the incomprehensible decision to retcon the story behind Planet Vegeta's destruction. Instead of Freeza blowing up the planet out of fear of a Super Saiyan. He was ordered by VillainSue Beerus to do it for the most pettiest of reasons. Not only does it make Freeza look like a total pussy, it made Vegeta, and Goku's battles with him utterly pointless.

** Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: To me, [[SpacetimeEater Infinite Zamasu]] is TheScrappy of ''Super''. It's ''Dragon Ball'''s worst AssPull so far, it graduates Zamasu from "already a VillainSue" to "literal BlackHoleSue," and it kickstarts this Saga's widespread EndingAversion.

** Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: To me, [[SpacetimeEater Infinite Zamasu]] is TheScrappy of both this arc and ''Super'' itself. It's ''Dragon Ball'''s worst AssPull ever, it "graduates" Zamasu (already the ultimate VillainSue) to a literal BlackHoleSue, and it begins this arc's widespread EndingAversion.

* {{Tomodachi}}: You know, while I have heard a lot of fans praise the manga version of the Future Trunks saga, and I admit there are some moments I found much better than the anime, there have been two moments from the manga that just makes me realize ''Dragon Ball Super'' is NotSoDifferent from ''Gt'' in their problems. Basically, Trunks becoming a disciple of the Supreme Kai, and Goku obtaining a more powerful version of Super Saiyan Blue. I get it, people don't like Trunks getting new powers as the plot demands and his inconsistent power scaling, trust me I get it, but, why the hell is he demoted to extra in his own arc? His future got destroyed by Black and Zamasu, his mom was killed (Off-screen, by the way), and the best Toyotaro can think for him is making him a healer so that Goku, who doesn't have any interesting relationship with neither Zamasu (As Zamasu is more of a {{Foil}} to Trunks) or Goku Black (Who he never fights against), can obtain a new power up and defeat him himself? No... just no. Is ''Goku time'' all over again. The fact Trunks is all too quiet about his home erasure at the end of the arc is just pathetic. No tears? Nothing? What the hell Trunks?

With this series being a long runner, this was only to be expected before fans wish that these moments would be [[DeaderThanDead erased by Zeno]].

* [=SenorCornholio=]: Changing/expanding on my previous moment, here, because Krillin really got the short end of the stick. We were shown that he's been taking his newfound training a lot more seriously, ringing out Gohan and even going one-on-one against Base Form Goku, and with 18 helping him out, he had even greater odds than ever before. Sounds like Krillin is finally getting some much-needed love, right? Well, the anime decided that apparently they weren't satisfied and turned Krillin into the new [[ButtMonkey Yamcha]]. It was bad enough when Krillin had to be threatened with [[DeaderThanDead being hakai'd out of existence]] after being too scared to participate due to the threat of the universe being destroyed, but then come the tournament proper and Krillin actually does pretty good... Which only lasts 3 episodes before he's unceremoniously kicked out of the ring by Frost (you heard me, [[DirtyCoward Frost]]) in a way that could have been avoided. Namely, he got overconfident long enough to let his guard down; that in itself is a problem with ''Super'' as a whole that the characters have to be made incompetent for them to actually lose, but that's beside the point. Beerus, 17, and 18 then waste no time in laying into the poor guy for his failures which, [[LampshadeHanging though possibly venting off some of the viewers' frustrations]], [[DudeNotFunny came off as far too mean-spirited for a franchise like Dragon Ball]]. I understand [[JerkassGods Beerus]] getting upset, and Android 17 commenting on how lame that performance was seemed perfectly in character, but 18 [[TookALevelInJerkass took a huge level in jerkass]] for that moment, angrily chewing out Krillin and outright saying "You call yourself my husband?!" [[FelonyMisdemeanor just for briefly letting his guard down]]. When Krillin had to be coerced into joining the tournament, that should have been a sign that the anime suddenly had nothing but ill intent for Krillin; seriously, he lasted a shorter time than Master Roshi, and ''he'' lost relevance far earlier. He might as well have never even participated to begin with, if this is how the show treats him.

* ''Tropers/{{Benthelame}}'': Not sure where this belongs. Feel free to copy and paste it into the right Arc if it bugs you that much. Anyhow the Dethroning Moment for DBZ in my opinion was Vegeta's Going Super Saiyan. I have no trouble with the fact that he's one but the excuse for how and why he became one still gets on my nerves. According to the English Dub, a super Saiyan is Pure of Heart and awakened by fury," Vegeta emerges as one because his heart is pure evil to the core... what?? That was all it took?? The Saiyans are a race of ruthless warriors that send their [[EnfantTerrible toddlers]] to destroy entire planets and kill their inhabitants as protocol. That sounds like pure evil to me and yet Vegeta is the only one who achieved this transformation in all the years before Frieza destroyed the planet? There are only a few conclusions that can be drawn from this. Either a race that prides itself on being strong, wiping out other inhabitants of the universe and rubbing salt in the wound by sending super powered toddlers to do so doesn't qualify as evil enough to warrant this power up or the writers just really wanted to make Vegeta a Super Saiyan. I can't complain too much, after all the possibility of Super Saiyans being evil gave us Broly but the reasoning still doesn't make any sense.

* ''Tropers/{{Benthelame}}'': Not sure where this belongs. Feel free to copy and paste it into the right Arc if it bugs you that much. Anyhow the Dethroning Moment for DBZ in my opinion was Vegeta's Going Super Saiyan. I have no trouble with the fact that he's one but the excuse for how and why he became one still gets on my nerves. According to the English Dub, a super Saiyan is Pure of Heart and awakened by fury," Vegeta emerges as one because his heart is pure evil to the core... what?? That was all it took?? The Saiyans are a race of ruthless warriors that send their [[EnfantTerrible toddlers]] to destroy entire planets and kill their inhabitants as protocol. That sounds like pure evil to me and yet Vegeta is the only one who achieved this transformation in all the years before Frieza destroyed the planet? There are only a few conclusions that can be drawn from this. Either a race that prides itself on being strong, wiping out other inhabitants of the universe and rubbing salt in the wound by sending super powered toddlers to do so doesn't qualify as evil enough to warrant this power up or the writers just really wanted to make Vegeta a Super Saiyan. I can't complain too much, after all the possibility of Super Saiyans being evil gave us Broly but the reasoning still doesn't make any sense.

With this series being a long runner, this was only to be expected before fans wish that these moments would be [[DeaderThanDead obliterated by Zeno]].