History DethroningMoment / DragonBall

With this series being a long runner, this was only to be expected before fans wish that these moments would be [[DeaderThanDead obliterated by Zen-Oh]].

->'''Nappa:''' ''WHAT 9000?! THERE'S NO WAY IT COULD BE RIGHT!''

* Isaac_Heller: Gohan getting absorbed by Buu, and subsequently Goku's defeat of Buu,. ''All'' that build-up, ''all'' that time spent on Gohan, those hours trying to pull out the Z sword and then just sitting in front of an old guy who can awaken his innermost power - [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot completely and utterly WASTED]] because Toryiama up and decided that only Goku can be the hero, with Vegeta as the perpetual runner-up, a trend that got even worse by the time ''Super'' came around. It's also ridiculous that a kamikaze explosion from Vegeta, Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation, the much-hyped Gotenks and ''his'' Super Saiyan 3 transformation, Mystic-Powered Gohan, and the ''fusion of Goku and Vegeta'' couldn't kill Buu, but one really big Spirit Bomb fired by Goku at regular power does it. [[FlatWhat What?]]

** Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: Zamasu's SpacetimeEater form is the worst AssPull in ''Dragon Ball'' history (last I checked, he wished for {{Immortality}}, not [[TheOmnipotent Omnipotence]]), and it only "graduates" him from an already-bad VillainSue to a literal BlackHoleSue. And people still think Trunks's EleventhHourSuperpower is the laziest part?

* Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: Krillin's NegatedMomentOfAwesome in the Buu Saga -- specifically, him attacking Super Buu to buy his family and friends time to escape, knowing he'll die in the process. However, who does Buu kill immediately afterward? Why, 18 and Marron, of course! So Krillin being a ButtMonkey in life isn't enough; he can't even have a good HeroicSacrifice and find dignity in death, either -- and now said status even extends to his family as well, courtesy of his now-SenselessSacrifice? DudeNotFunny 101.

* Tropers/{{Darkton}}: Here's one from the very beginning of the Cell Saga. Freeza has not only survived the explosion of Namek, but is bringing his father with him. And what's worse, they've arrived on Earth. Now, our hero lineup consists of Gohan, Kurilin, Piccolo, Vegeta, Tenshinhan, and Yamucha, with Bulma and Puar caught in the crossfire. Most of these people have died at least once, so unless there's some technicality on who brings them back, if they die this time, it's permanent. This could've made a great HoldTheLine story, as the Z-Fighters try hard not to die in battle. But that's not what happens. Instead, some purple-haired punk with blue eyes shows up and starts trash-talking Freeza. Then he... turns into a Super Saiyan? The heck? Isn't that supposed to be a "once every 1000 years" thing? Then he kills Freeza in three episodes (well, one and two eighths of episodes) where it took Goku over 20. It gets worse; he kills Freeza's father, despite him being almost as strong as Freeza, in less the time it took for Freeza to die. Then, when Goku does show up, he explains that he's the son of Bulma and Vegeta, despite the two only having one scene together. Yamucha, her official boyfriend, is said to be a playboy, despite him being afraid of women. In the end, the boy, named Trunks, sets up a saga that's basically a rip-off of ''Film/TheTerminator''. What just happened? Allow me to explain. A MartyStu showed up, became a Super Saiyan [[CopyCatSue (a trait also shared by Goku)]], [[GodModeSue killed Freeza and his father in seconds]], [[RelationshipSue and set up two characters who were never meant to be]].

** Loekman3: I agree with your points and I would especially like to give special mentions to the way Damon and Gamisaras was handled. Basically, they were hyped up as one of the biggest threats towards Universe 7 given the dark tones when the Grand Priest mentions the remaining fighters, the fact that it made someone like Beerus rather nervous and that Quitela remained calm even after seven of his members were eliminated. But then cut to episode 119, they were pretty much nothing more than glorified fodders just to make Piccolo and Android 17 look good. Yeah they did knock out two fighters and as shown it's actually really effective given the way they trip Katopesla and Piccolo outside of the arena but then that opens up a huge PlotHole. Like why didn't they do that earlier, when the others are close to the edge of the ring such as Jiren, Hit or when the others are exhausted such as Caulifla, Kale, or even Goku. Heck why didn't they interrupt Goku in the middle of charging the Spirit Bomb. If we see other fighters tripped out for no reason and come close to eliminating the main characters, it could actually create and amazing buildup and create genuine tension by having audience and fighters being completely paranoid of standing close to the arena's edge. But apparently, Quitela decides to have them attack only now at 13 minutes in the tournament? To me honestly, they are easily one of the biggest waste of a fighter that could potentially level the playing field using trickery and deceit despite their weakness and turns Quitela from being a legitimate rival to Beerus into a huge BigBadWannabe SmugSnake. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And Damon isn't even shown to have a]] [[TakingYouWithMe self-destruction attack]] despite that being outright mentioned in the manual, which could have potentially inflicted another casualty on Universe 7.

** {{MsCC93}}: I think Chi-Chi’s UndignifiedDeath in the Majin Buu Saga counts. While it was an understandable MamaBear reaction due to her believing Gohan was dead, it was still undeniably stupid. Now don’t get me wrong, I was always mixed with Chi-Chi’s character. At times, I find her completely understandable in her anger sometimes, and there are times I find her irritating. I would like to point out that fans usually say that Yamcha’s death in the hands of a Saibaman in the Saiyan Arc was the most embarrassing death, but I disagree. This is due to the fact that it wasn’t even Yamcha’s fault he died. Chi-Chi, on the other hand, brought her own death on herself. This is due to a few factors.

** {{MsCC93}}: I think Chi-Chi’s UndignifiedDeath in the Majin Buu Saga counts. While it was an understandable MamaBear action due to her believing Gohan was dead, it was still undeniably stupid. Now don’t get me wrong, I was always mixed with Chi-Chi’s character. At times, I find her completely understandable in her anger sometimes, and there are times I find her irritating. I would like to point out that fans usually say that Yamcha’s death in the hands of a Saibaman in the Saiyan Arc was the most embarrassing death, but I disagree. This is due to the fact that it wasn’t even Yamcha’s fault he died. Chi-Chi, on the other hand, brought her own death on herself. This is due to a few factors.

** Tomodachi: While i'm pretty neutral compared with many of the people here, I do however admit I'm quite disappointed in Universe 4. From a writing perspective, all the universes have shown their positive qualities despite their antagonism (From Universe 6 being long established to the point of getting filler with them in the past, to Universe 2 love and trust in their team which I found charming despite how silly it was, to Obuni's LastStand, Universe 9's being sort of jerkasses who despite living in a dumpter fight for their survival (something I found relatable) and the fact Universe 3 managed to live to the hype by becoming something of a darkhorse (As Nigrisshi dissapointed everyone, but Paparoni won me over with Anilaza). Universe 4, however, 1) wasn't explored outside of Quitela's palace, meaning we never saw how life in Universe 4 is 2) Didn't have any positive qualities to their team besides Ganos anger at one point and 3) Their team being taken down with such an anticlimactic theme. It feels like Universe 4 was supposed to be taken down before Universe 10, who had least gave us Gowasu and Obuni tragic erasure. I'm also angry at Gamisaras taking down Katopesla, who we never discovered what his other Mode Changes were.
* Tomodachi: I guess my complaint is pretty minor, but I'll admit I'm disappointed in the angel's total disinterest in their erased universes. I'm talking mostly about Sawar and Cognac, from Universe 2 and 4, who we never discover what kind of relationship they had with their God of destruction. As someone who was really fascinated by the concept and characters, I was pretty disappointed they never say anything after their universes were destroyed. By comparison, Mojito evil smile, Cus sad reaction, and Vados teasing moment was nice, but was kinda hoping to seeing more.

** Goku Black treatment in the manga is also quiet painful to me. While I appreciate Toyotaro for making CallBacks to the techniques used by Shin in the past, it also makes Goku Black much less interesting to read about, since he doesn't have any creativity in his fighting style, and by the time he fuses with Zamasu, what does he do? Make more CallBacks instead of showing some creative attacks, even using Janemba's dimensional portals. It made Goku Black feel like a NonSerialMovie villain like Lord Slug and Android 13 for how derivative he was. Is not surprising Xenoverse 2 and Fighters Z doesn't take anything from the manga version of Goku Black. The fact Vegito trashes Zamasu withot effort compared with the anime version make him worse for me.

** Loekman3: I agree with your points and I would especially like to give special mentions to the way Damon and Gamisaras was handled. Basically, they were hyped up as one of the biggest threats towards Universe 7 given the dark tones when the Grand Priest mentions the remaining fighters, the fact that it made someone like Beerus rather nervous and that Quitela remained calm even after seven of his members were eliminated. But then cut to episode 119, they were pretty much nothing more than glorified fodders just to make Piccolo and Android 17 look good. Yeah they did knock out two fighters and as shown it's actually really effective given the way they trip Katopesla and Piccolo outside of the arena but then that opens up a huge PlotHole. Like why didn't they do that earlier, when the others are close to the edge of the ring such as Jiren, Hit or when the others are exhausted such as Caulifla, Kale, or even Goku. Heck why didn't they interrupt Goku in the middle of charging the Spirit Bomb. If we see other fighters tripped out for no reason and come close to eliminating the main characters, it could actually create and amazing buildup and create genuine tension by having audience and fighters being completely paranoid of standing close to the arena's edge. But apparently, Quitela decides to have them attack only now at 13 minutes in the tournament? To me honestly, they are easily one of the biggest waste of a fighter that could potentially level the playing field using trickery and deceit despite their weakness and turns Quitela from being a legitimate rival to Beerus into a huge BigBadWannabe SmugSnake. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And Damon doesn't even do his last resort]] [[TakingYouWithMe self-destruction attack]] despite being outright mentioned in the manual and could potentially inflict another casualty on Universe 7.

%%** Overlord347: The dragon balls themselves really do take away a lot of impact from that kind of thing; pretty much anything that goes wrong can be fixed with them. Characters die? Dragon balls. Earth/some other planet gets destroyed? Dragon balls. There are literally no long-term consequences so long as the heroes win (which they inevitably do).

* {{JM1982}}: Yamcha has been repeatedly shat on by creators and fans alike, but ''Resurrection F'' offered a HopeSpot that he might be able to earn some battle glory alongside the other human Z fighters by helping out in the battle against Frieza's army. Instead, the long tradition of Yamcha receiving sickening treatment From the writers continues with the revelation that he's unable to help out against an army of {{Mooks}} that Krillin and Gohan were flattening as far back as the Namek Saga. You know it's bad when he doesn't even show up in the [[Anime/DragonBallSuper Super adaptation]]. And now, just to twist the knife even further in Super, they have Yamcha eagerly expecting an invitation to participate in the Multiverse Tournament, when we all know he never will.

* TheGingerArtist: Going into [[Anime/DragonBallSuper Super]], I was hyped up over it just like most long-time fans. But throughout the show, I've just been finding it to be at best a mediocre sequel with a few good and interesting moments, but it was otherwise subpar compared to Dragon Ball Z. But what finally killed this fucking series for me was the ending of the Future Trunks Arc. After Zamasu is slashed in half, he becomes an EldritchAbomination that infects the universe and [[KillEmAll kills off all the mortals sans Future Trunks and Mai]]. Zen'o is forced to wipe out that universe, and Whis breaks the rules and interferes with another universe to prevent what occurred in Trunks' original future verse from happening there, just so Trunks and Mai can go live there. This is treated as an BittersweetEnding and EarnYourHappyEnding ... when really, it's a goddamn DownerEnding. Everything Trunks did in Dragon Ball Z was for nothing. Everyone Trunks knew in his timeline isn't just [[KilledOffForReal dead]] -- they're [[DeaderThanDead completely gone]] because the afterlife in that universe was also destroyed. Trunks failed to protect the future and uphold Gohan's legacy. It's a horrible ending -- but we're supposed to feel happy for Trunks and Mai, since they're going into another future verse and everything is alright there? If anything, the fact that Super is trying to downplay Trunks' loss by having him go to another universe that was just like his before Zamasu came in is even worse. What was the point of the sacrifice when you're just trying to replace it? The ending was so unsatisfying and infuriating, and it was the straw that broke the camels back for me when it came to Super.

* Breakingchains: Episode 68, "Come Forth, Shenron! Whose Wish Will Be Granted?" ends in a massive slap in the face for Bulma. Admittedly, I'm a little bitter about Bulma being underutilized and unappreciated, and I've been enjoying how Super brings her back to form after she spent so long being treated as either a shrieking burden or entirely irrelevant. So I may be biased, but I still feel the ending to this episode is completely unfair. Time travel is considered a sin and is taboo among the gods, but Bulma is intent on fixing her time machine, for the sake of intellectual interest if nothing else. When she is found out, Beerus destroys the element she needs for her time machine, then the time machine itself, and a good chunk of her lab along with it. And for some horrible reason this is played for laughs! Hell, Beerus realized he was guilty of the same "sin" one episode ago and let Trunks off the hook for it; more importantly, the entire anime up to this point is soaked with themes of daring to take a big shit on the unearned authority of this entire pantheon. Why am I supposed to laugh when Bulma's small act of rebellion gets her lab destroyed and leaves her crying on the ground?

* [[=cookieman=]]: I feel like the unnecessary filler episode where Android 17 and Goku go to fight the alien poachers has one of the worst DMOS in a while ... they warp into King Kai's planet when they're under the impression that the poacher leader is a timebomb. Goku just casually laughs it off saying that King Kai should be used to it by now. Hello? What's wrong with this picture? Shortly after the Future Trunks Saga, Goku tried to revive King Kai in an episode that ended up being a ShaggyDogStory, then Goku suddenly wants King Kai to die again. Oh ... if he, Gregory, and Bubbles die AFTER already being dead, they're DeaderThanDead. Didn't Goku realize that? Thankfully Dende revealed the villain's "timebomb" act as a bluff. Maybe characters like Toppo, Bergamo, and Zamasu are right in considering Goku "evil" at times.

* [=Schonberg=]: If Krillin got the short end of the stick, Tenshinhan doesn't even HAVE a stick anymore. In the original Dragon Ball, he was one of the most powerful characters in the canon, able to fight near evenly with Goku, besting Yamcha and Master Roshi, and had a slew of attacks from the powerful and fast Dodon Ray, the multiple arms technique, multiple bodies, psychic powers, the deadly and self sacrificing Kikoho/Tri-Beam, the crafty Solar Flare, as well as being one of the first characters able to fly. In Z he received similar treatment as the other humans, being given small moments to shine such as dealing a strong blow to Nappa and holding back Semi-Perfect Cell, before disappearing until a single failed attack against Super Buu. In Super? When it comes time for the Tournament of Power, Goku and the gang list off potential members. They think of Android 17, whom they haven't seen in nearly a decade (and Goku had NEVER met), Krillin, and even Master Roshi. By the end of the episode they've thought of 9 warriors, which would comprise the final team (and Buu)... but not Tenshinhan. Tien was only added because Goku found out Master Roshi was waiting at Tenshinhan's new dojo. To add further insult to injury, each member of the Tournament of Power team got at least one episode to show off how strong they'd gotten on their own (albeit with Krillin and 18 sharing an episode, and Gohan and Piccolo sharing one as well). In the episode Tenshinhan is recruited, he is beaten up by Master Roshi while Goku remarks at how powerful the old man had become. In the following episode, Goku and Tenshinhan face against Gohan and Piccolo to test their teamwork. Which results in Tenshinhan being taken out by a single punch from Gohan, and when he finally recovers enough to use a Kikoho Gohan stops him again. He's then left relatively out of focus until the Tournament of Power actually starts, and does nothing of note until he takes out The Preecho that Roshi was holding stunned. The next time Tenshinhan is seen he faces off with a sniper enemy, and decides to rush at the warrior with the multi-form technique, cutting his speed and power into 4. Not only do each of the clones get taken out, but [[IdiotBall Tenshinhan is then tricked off the stage as the sniper Hermilla blows up the ground beneath them both, resulting in Tenshinhan falling out of the ring,]] but not Hermilla who was closer to the edge than Tenshinhan was. While Tenshinhan uses the clones to drag his foe down with him, it doesn't make sense why this experienced martial arts genius would not leave a single clone on the stage as a lifeline instead of throwing them all down with him, let alone why he couldn't jump like Hermilla id to avoid the fall. He ends the tournament with the worst showing from Universe 7, participating in only one elimination and one team elimination. It's an utter shame to see what was once among the strongest characters in the canon be reduced to such a joke.
* [=GamingFan1997=]: [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter The treatment of Universe 4]]. While it was already clear that this universe would be one of the less relevant universes in the Tournament of Power, there was still some potential for some interesting developments during the Universe Survival arc, such as the two hidden fighters and the rivalry between Beerus and Quitela. Also, most of the fighters for that Universe had interesting designs or abilities, and the idea of them using stealth or deception to eliminate opposing fighters could have created a good amount of suspense. As for their ''actual'' role in the Tournament of Power... they pretty much ended up being a group of EliteMooks and nothing more. Seriously, just look at the episodes in which they were eliminated, and tell me you don't notice a pattern. Every time a fighter from Universe 4 was eliminated, it was when they were the focus antagonist for the episode (Nink being the sole exception, and he was one of the first fighters eliminated in the ToP), and aside frome Episode 119, it was as part of the focus episode for an already established character in the series, who would end up eliminating them in that episode[[note]]For reference, Shosa and Majora were eliminated by Krillin in Episode 99 (though 18 helped in the case of the former), Caway, Darkori, and Ganos were eliminated by Master Roshi in Episode 105 (though Caway technically eliminated herself), and Monna was eliminated by Cabba in Episode 112. Episode 119 marked the elimination of the remaining fighters from Universe 4.[[/note]]. On top of that, they had no real prominence in any episodes outside of the ones where they ''were'' the main threat of the episode, which is especially bad in the case of the hidden fighters, as we could have had them picking off fighters while they were still hidden[[note]]Such as during Kale's rampage in Episode 100 or the sniper attack in Episode 106, when no one would question someone being eliminated offscreen since someone else was already launching a huge assault across the entire arena.[[/note]], thereby building up suspense for when Universe 7 finally faces them. Finally, their last appearance in the Tournament of Power, Episode 119, was basically just more of the same: Universe 4 guys appear, give the protagonists some trouble, protagonists figure out their gimmick, Universe 4 guys get their asses kicked, end episode. What makes it ''worse'' than the previous episodes in which this happened is a) there wasn't really any development or focus for any of the characters this time around and b) this is supposed to be the episode where Universe 4 gets ''erased'', and yet it got no real sense of closure, something that all the universes that were erased up to this point had, even [[JokeCharacter Universe 10]]. Even the fact that they eliminated ''Piccolo'' is more or less brushed off; even if Universe 7 still has the majority of fighters left at this point in the tournament, you'd think the elimination of one of the main characters would have attracted a lot more attention. Overall, it just ended up feeling like Universe 4 was more or less filler, and the fact that so much potential was wasted just makes it feel all the more disappointing.

[[folder:'Z' Era]]

[[folder:'Super' Era]]

* Tropers/{{Falconwing}}: Anime/DragonballZBattleOfGods was full of all sorts of things to bitch about. But none was more infuriating than the incomprehensible decision to retcon the story behind Planet Vegeta's destruction. Instead of Freeza blowing up the planet out of fear of a Super Saiyan. He was ordered by VillainSue Beerus to do it for the most pettiest of reasons. Not only does it make Freeza look like a total pussy, it made Vegeta, and Goku's battles with him utterly pointless.

** WhyNotNow: There's a reason many die-hard fans such as myself consider the Buu Saga a total failure, cool in some ways, but a huge flop overall, weak in storytelling and abominable in characterization, but the crowning moment for this "honor" that exemplifies everything that was wrong with the Buu Saga and indeed late ''Anime/DragonBallZ'' had to be Goku just leaving his sons behind to die on Earth at the hands of Majin Buu when he very easily had the power to save them. The plot {{Hand Wave}}s this by never bringing it up again and implying that since they can be revived from death that it totally nullifies the downright evil crime Goku committed of letting his own flesh and blood die. Now, not only does this make death utterly meaningless on a level never seen before in ''Anime/DragonBallZ'' (not even in previous sagas), but it ignores the fact that there are some acts [[ThisIsUnforgivable you just can't come back from]]. Knowingly letting a family member die is perhaps the darkest and most sadistic thing a villain can do, never mind the HERO of your goddamn story! It's utter failure on Goku's part and proof that he is perhaps the worst father ever, that he only viewed his family as more of an afterthought next to fighting and adventuring, and that just because something is easily fixed doesn't mean there isn't lingering pain. If a real life father left one of his OWN CHILDREN to die, that child could never look at the father the same way again, and it also negates the "Larger-Than-Life God Even Among Gods" image they were trying to give Goku in the final chapter of DBZ, because a true paragon of morality would look after his own and choose his family, not a fraud who insulted and dishonored them for seven years and an alien child he barely knows. All around fucking FAIL.

** Loekman3: I agree with your points and I would especially like to give special mentions to the way Damon and Gamisaras was handled. Basically, they were hyped up as one of the biggest threats towards Universe 7 given the dark tones when the Grand Priest mentions the remaining fighters, the fact that it made someone like Beerus rather nervous and that Quitela remained calm even after seven of his members were eliminated. But then cut to episode 119, they were pretty much nothing more than glorified fodders just to make Piccolo and Android 17 look good. Yeah they did knock out two fighters and as shown it's actually really effective given the way they trip Katopesla and Piccolo outside of the arena but then that opens up a huge PlotHole. Like why didn't they do that earlier, when the others are close to the edge of the ring such as Jiren, Hit or when the others are exhausted such as Caulifla, Kale, or even Goku. Heck why didn't they interrupt Goku in the middle of charging the Spirit Bomb If we see other fighters tripped out for no reason and come close to eliminating the main characters, it could actually create and amazing buildup and made audience and fighters being completely paranoid of their mere presence. But apparently, Quitela decides to have them attack only now at 13 minutes in the tournament? To me honestly, they are easily one of the biggest waste of a fighter that could potentially level the playing field using trickery and deceit despite their weakness and turns Quitela from being a legitimate rival to Beerus into a huge BigBadWannabe SmugSnake. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And Damon doesn't even do his last resort]] [[TakingYouWithMe self-destruction attack]] despite being outright mentioned in the manual and could potentially inflict another casualty on Universe 7.

** Loekman3: I agree with your points and I would especially like to give special mentions to the way Damon and Gamisaras was handled. Basically, they were hyped up as one of the biggest threats towards Universe 7 given the dark tones when the Grand Priest mentions the remaining fighters and the fact that it made someone like Beerus rather nervous. But then cut to episode 119, they were pretty much nothing more than glorified fodders just to make Piccolo and Android 17 look good. Yeah they did knock out two fighters and as shown it's actually really effective given the way they trip Katopesla and Piccolo outside of the arena but then that opens up a huge PlotHole. Like why didn't they do that earlier, when the others are close to the edge of the ring such as Jiren, Hit or when the others are exhausted such as Caulifla, Kale, or even Goku. If we see other fighters tripped out for no reason and come close to eliminating the main characters, it could actually create and amazing buildup and made audience and fighters being completely paranoid of their mere presence. But apparently, Quitela decides to have them attack only now at 13 minutes in the tournament? To me honestly, they are easily one of the biggest waste of a fighter that could potentially level the playing field using trickery and deceit despite their weakness. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And Damon doesn't even do his last resort]] [[TakingYouWithMe self-destruction attack]] despite being outright mentioned in the manual and could potentially inflict another casualty on Universe 7.
* {{cookieman}}: As much as I like the Tournament of Power, I am rather bothered by how a lot of the episodes, especially later ones, just seem to be "One Universe Against Universe 7 ([[EnemyMine and]]/[[ADayInTheLimelight or 6]]) at a Time while everyone else rests", which is especially noticeable once more universes start falling apart. Some can be justified, such as when Goku is fighting Kefla, as both can recklessly knock out or even kill other fighters as collateral. Another jarring example is when Brianne and Co idly wait for 9 minutes (5 episodes in) until they transform, even [[WhatAnIdiot getting knocked around by Narirama in the first minute of the tournament]]. However, once Universe 6 and 2 are eliminated, it seems to just be "Universe 3 and 11 sit on the side and wait until it's their turn", which is evident after Katopesla is knocked out. Additionaly, it would've been nice seeing other universes fight others simultaneously and even knock out fighters, which it was cool seeing Basil knock out a Universe 10 fighter in the first minute of the tournament, and Jimizu knocking out a Universe 10 fighter was neat as well. As of 119, only 7 fighters outside of Universes 6 and 7 have knocked somebody out, and of those 5 instances, are outside of Universe 6 and 7.

** Loekman3: I agree with your points and I would especially like to give special mentions to the way Damon and Gamisaras was handled. Basically, they were hyped up as one of the biggest threats towards Universe 7 given the dark tones when the Grand Priest mentions the remaining fighters and the fact that it made someone like Beerus rather nervous. But then cut to episode 119, they were pretty much nothing more than glorified fodders just to make Piccolo and Android 17 look good. Yeah they did knock out two fighters and as shown it's actually really effective given the way they trip Katopesla and Piccolo outside of the arena but then that opens up a huge PlotHole. Like why didn't they do that earlier, when the others are close to the edge of the ring such as Jiren, Hit or when the others are exhausted such as Caulifla, Kale, or even Goku. If we see other fighters tripped out for no reason and come close to eliminating the main characters, it could actually create and amazing buildup and made audience and fighters being completely paranoid of their mere presence. But apparently, Quitela decides to have them attack only now at 13 minutes in the tournament? To me honestly, they are easily one of the biggest waste of a fighter that could potentially level the playing field using trickery and deceit despite their weakness. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And Damon doesn't even do his last resort]] [[SuicideBomber self-destruction attack]] despite being outright mentioned in the manual and could potentially inflict another casualty on Universe 7.

** Loekman3: I agree with your points and I would especially like to give special mentions to the way Damon and Gamisaras was handled. Basically, they were hyped up as one of the biggest threats towards Universe 7 given the dark tones when the Grand Priest mentions the remaining fighters and the fact that it made someone like Beerus rather nervous. But then cut to episode 119, they were pretty much nothing more than glorified fodders just to make Piccolo and Android 17 look good. Yeah they did knock out two fighters and as shown it's actually really effective given the way they trip Katopesla and Piccolo outside of the arena but then that opens up a huge PlotHole. Like why didn't they do that earlier, when the others are close to the edge of the ring such as Jiren, Hit or when the others are exhausted such as Caulifla, Kale, or even Goku. If we see other fighters tripped out for no reason and come close to eliminating the main characters, it could actually create and amazing buildup and made audience and fighters being completely paranoid of their mere presence. But apparently, Quitela decides to have them attack only now at 13 minutes in the tournament? To me honestly, they are easily one of the biggest waste of a fighter that could potentially level the playing field using trickery and deceit despite their weakness.

* Loekman3: When the brief summary for episode 112 is released and said that Universe 6 has lost Hit, I was just in complete denial, like maybe he transport Jiren to another dimension, or probably just knocked out like he did to Kale given the fact that he is one my most favorite characters of ''Super''. But nope, come episode 111 and Hit is really knocked out of the arena and without any meaningful contribution against Jiren either. He outright gets crushed by the Pride Trooper and dare I say it, succumb to TheWorfEffect which I absolutely hated given that being my favorite character, I honestly would want to have him being the final 10 members and not get jobbed early on to establish just how strong Jiren is. And just to twist the knife even further, once Jiren managed to eliminate Hit from the arena, rather than use this opportunity to take out as many fighters as possible, Jiren apparently decides to meditate for no reason aside from a lack of challege and leave the rest to Toppo and Dyspo despite the fact that this is a survival tournament and it would be a great opportunity to finish off the rest of the fighters.

* [=GamingFan1997=]: [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter The treatment of Universe 4]]. While it was already clear that this universe would be one of the less relevant universes in the Tournament of Power, there was still some potential for some interesting developments during the Universe Survival arc, such as the two hidden fighters and the rivalry between Beerus and Quitela. Also, most of the fighters for that Universe had interesting designs or abilities, and the idea of them using stealth or deception to eliminate opposing fighters could have created a good amount of suspense. As for their ''actual'' role in the Tournament of Power... they pretty much ended up being a group of EliteMooks and nothing more. Seriously, just look at the episodes in which they were eliminated, and tell me you don't notice a pattern. Every time a fighter from Universe 4 was eliminated, it was when they were the focus antagonist for the episode (Nink being the sole exception, and he was one of the first fighters eliminated in the ToP), and aside frome Episode 119, it was as part of the focus episode for an already established character in the series, who would end up eliminating them in that episode[[note]]For reference, Shosa and Majora were eliminated by Krillin in Episode 99 (though 18 helped in the case of the former), Caway, Darkori, and Ganos were eliminated by Master Roshi in Episode 105 (though Caway technically eliminated herself), and Monna was eliminated by Cabba in Episode 112. Episode 119 marked the elimination of the remaining fighters from Universe 4.[[/note]]. On top of that, they had no real prominence in any episodes outside of the ones where they ''were'' the main threat of the episode, which is especially bad in the case of the hidden fighters, as we could have had them picking off fighters while they were still hidden[[note]]Such as during Kale's rampage in Episode 100 or the sniper attack in Episode 106, when no one would question someone being eliminated offscreen since someone else was already launching a huge assault across the entire arena.[[/note]], thereby building up suspense for when Universe 7 finally faces them. Finally, their last appearance in the Tournament of Power, Episode 119, was basically just more of the same: Universe 4 guys appear, give the protagonists some trouble, protagonists figure out their gimmick, Universe 4 guys get their asses kicked, end episode. What makes it ''worse'' than the previous episodes in which this happened is a) there wasn't really any development or focus for any of the characters this time around and b) this is supposed to be the episode where Universe 4 gets ''erased'', and yet it got no real sense of closure, something that all the universes that were erased up to this point had, even [[JokeCharacter Universe 10]]. Even the fact that they eliminated ''Piccolo'' is more or less brushed off, even if Universe 7 still has the majority of fighters left at this point in the tournament, you'd think the elimination of one of the main characters would have attracted a lot more attention. Overall, it just ended up feeling like Universe 4 was more or less filler, and the fact that so much potential was wasted just makes it feel all the more disappointing.

* [=GamingFan1997=]: [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter The treatment of Universe 4]]. While it was already clear that this universe would be one of the less relevant universes in the Tournament of Power, there was still some potential for some interesting developments during the Universe Survival arc, such as the two hidden fighters and the rivalry between Beerus and Quitela. Also, most of the fighters for that Universe had interesting designs or abilities, and the idea of them using stealth or deception to eliminate opposing fighters could have created a good amount of suspense. As for their ''actual'' role in the Tournament of Power... they pretty much ended up being a group of EliteMooks and nothing more. Seriously, just look at the episodes in which they were eliminated, and tell me you don't notice a pattern. Every time a fighter from Universe 4 was eliminated, it was when they were the focus antagonist for the episode (Nink being the sole exception, and he was one of the first fighters eliminated in the ToP), and aside frome Episode 119, it was as part of the focus episode for an already established character in the series, who would end up eliminating them in that episode[[note]]For reference, Shosa and Majora were eliminated by Krillin in Episode 99 (though 18 helped in the case of the former), Caway, Darkori, and Ganos were eliminated by Master Roshi in Episode 105 (though Caway technically eliminated herself), and Monna was eliminated by Cabba in Episode 112. Episode 119 marked the elimination of the remaining fighters from Universe 4.[[/note]] On top of that, they had no real prominence in any episodes where they ''were'' the main threat of the episode, which is especially bad in the case of the hidden fighters, as we could have had them picking off fighters while they were still hidden[[note]]Such as during Kale's rampage in Episode 100 or the sniper attack in Episode 106, when no one would question someone being eliminated offscreen since someone else was already launching a huge assault across the entire arena.[[/note]], thereby building up suspense for when Universe 7 finally faces them. Finally, their last appearance in the Tournament of Power, Episode 119, was basically just more of the same: Universe 4 guys appear, give the protagonists some trouble, protagonists figure out their gimmick, Universe 4 guys get their asses kicked, end episode. What makes it ''worse'' than the previous episodes in which this happened is a) there wasn't really any development or focus for any of the characters this time around and b) this is supposed to be the episode where Universe 4 gets ''erased'', and yet it got no real sense of closure, something that all the universes that were erased up to this point had, even [[JokeCharacter Universe 10]]. Even the fact that they eliminated ''Piccolo'' is more or less brushed off, even if Universe 7 still has the majority of fighters left at this point in the tournament, you'd think the elimination of one of the main characters would have attracted a lot more attention. Overall, it just ended up feeling like Universe 4 was more or less filler, and the fact that so much potential was wasted just makes it feel all the more disappointing.

* ThisIsTheOtherGuy: Not from the show specifically, but the fans. The OVERWHELMING amount of hate Ribrianne and the Universe 2 Magical Girls receive is honestly annoying to no end. A gag character, in a series that has always had it's roots as a gag manga? A parody of magical girls, just like the Ginyu Force and Pride Troopers are to Tokusentai heroes? Nope, clearly they're ridiculously out of place and the worst thing to happen to Dragon Ball; everyone involved in their creation is terrible and should die, everyone who supports or likes them should die. Common complaints include: "She's fat/ugly/gross/etc" - AKA, I only want my Dragon Ball characters to be sexy anime women. "She's so ANNOYING how she always talks about love!" Like the Pride Troopers and Justice? Or Vegeta and Pride? Or literally any shonen character in history and their ideals? "She takes up too much screentime!" Besides the fact that she hasn't, she's had exactly 1 brief fight with 17 and Vegeta, one background fight with Goku that amounted to nothing, a few less-than-a-minute long cuts between episodes 109-116, and then episode 117. For a character billed as the best one of the universes had to offer, that's not being oversold. Not everyone has to love a character, hell, not even like them. But the level and ferocity of the hate directed at Universe 2 just makes the fans seem like children who just want Goku to punch the big evil muscle man instead of loving Dragon Ball as the quirky, weird, gag action show it's always been.