History DethroningMoment / DragonBall

* Tropers/TheGingerArtist: Dragon Ball Minus. Oh. My. God. That fucking manga was a book of dethroning. After hyping up for months over the arrival of Goku’s mother, Gine just turned out to be another stay-at-home mom who [[StayInTheKitchen frequented the kitchen]] and was too weak compared to her husband to battle – just like every female character in this damn series. The manga came out what, 2014? Look, Toriyama could get away with that crap of women staying in the kitchen and with the sole use of being babymakers in the 80’s and 90’s because those times were very sexist, but he couldn’t get away with it now – especially when it’s regarding a female of a race of bloodthirsty warriors who thrive off of battle! The whole race has been depicted as [[AxCrazy genocidal]], [[{{Jerkass}} jerkasses]] who valued strength – her being a [[PuritySue nice, weak and good person]] makes no sense. It's just really upsetting, because she could have been something {{Badass}}, and maybe added to the roster of fighters in future DBZ games. But no, she's given the same fate as every other woman in this series, and it is ''frustrating''.

* Tropers/TheGingerArtist: Dragon Ball Minus. Oh. My. God. That fucking manga was a book of dethroning. After hyping up for months over the arrival of Goku’s mother, Gine just turned out to be another stay-at-home mom who [[StayInTheKitchen frequented the kitchen]] and was too weak compared to her husband to battle – just like every female character in this damn series. The manga came out what, 2014? Look, Toriyama could get away with that crap of women staying in the kitchen and with the sole use of being babymakers in the 80’s and 90’s because those times were very sexist, but he couldn’t get away with it now – especially when it’s regarding a female of a race of bloodthirsty warriors who thrive off of battle! The whole race has been depicted as [[AxCrazy genocidal]], [[{{Jerkass}} jerkasses]] who valued strength – her being a [[PuritySue nice, weak and good person]] makes no sense. But not just that, Bardock’s characterization was completely changed! For nearly twenty years, I knew him as a jackass who didn’t give two shits about his kids or anyone but [[TrueCompanions his team]] and [[BloodKnight killing things]]. He only stood up to Frieza when he found out his betrayal. Now suddenly, he gives a damn about his weakling children and is being painted as a JerkWithAHeartOfGold. They completely rewrote his character, and for what? To explain why Goku is such a nice Saiyan or something? Which is another thing – they basically rewrote Goku’s backstory to be exactly like Superman’s! Before, Goku was sent to destroy Earth, but a twist of fate had him bump his head while he was being raised by a kindly old man – and he no longer had the bad side to him anymore! Now, his parents sent him to Earth to save him from the destruction of his home planet, while the manga basically explains because his parents were actually good people so is Goku so the bump on his head did nothing. And fans wonder why DC fans rip on Goku for being a Superman knockoff – Toriyama is actively encouraging it by basically copying the damn origin story!

* There's a reason many die-hard fans such as myself consider the Buu Saga a total failure, cool in some ways, but a huge flop overall, weak in storytelling and abominable in characterization, but the crowning moment for this "honor" that exemplifies everything that was wrong with the Buu Saga and indeed late ''DragonBallZ'' had to be Goku just leaving his sons behind to die on Earth at the hands of Majin Buu when he very easily had the power to save them. The plot HandWaves this by never bringing it up again and implying that since they can be revived from death that it totally nullifies the downright evil crime Goku committed of letting his own flesh and blood die. Now, not only does this make death utterly meaningless on a level never seen before in ''DragonBallZ'' (not even in previous sagas), but it ignores the fact that there are some acts [[ThisIsUnforgivable you just can't come back from.]] Knowingly letting a family member die is perhaps the darkest and most sadistic thing a villain can do, never mind the HERO of your goddamn story! It's utter failure on Goku's part and proof that he is perhaps the worst father ever, that he only viewed his family as more of an afterthought next to fighting and adventuring, and that just because something is easily fixed doesn't mean there isn't lingering pain. If a real life father left one of his OWN CHILDREN to die, that child could never look at the father the same way again, and it also negates the "Larger-Than-Life God Even Among Gods" image they were trying to give Goku in the final chapter of DBZ, because a true paragon of morality would look after his own and choose his family, not a fraud who insulted and dishonored them for seven years and an alien child he barely knows. All around fucking FAIL.

* There's a reason many die-hard fans such as myself consider the Buu Saga a total failure, cool in some ways, but a huge flop overall, weak in storytelling and abominable in characterization, but the crowning moment for this "honor" that exemplifies everything that was wrong with the Buu Saga and indeed late ''DragonBallZ'' had to be Goku just leaving his sons behind to die on Earth at the hands of Majin Buu when he very easily had the power to save them. The plot HandWaves this by never bringing it up again and implying that since they can be revived from death that it totally nullifies the downright evil crime Goku committed of letting his own flesh and blood die. Now, not only does this make death utterly meaningless on a level never seen before in ''DragonBallZ'' (not even in previous sagas), but it ignores the fact that there are some acts [[ThisIsUnforgivable you just can't come back from.]] Knowingly letting a family member die is perhaps the darkest and most sadistic thing a villain can do, never mind the HERO of your goddamn story! It's utter failure on Goku's part and proof that he is perhaps the worst father ever, that he only viewed his family as more of an afterthought next to fighting and adventuring, and that just because something is easily fixed doesn't mean there isn't lingering pain. If a real life father life one of his children to die, that child could never look at the father the same way again, and it also negates the "Larger Than Life" "God Among Gods" image they were trying to give Goku in the final chapter of DBZ. All around utter FAIL.

** {{Tropers/Clump J}}: I disagree Gohan being very cocky is a side effect caused when Saiyans first become a Super Saiyan or above, it's happened to both Goku and Vegeta also. Goku wanting to fight Frieza when he could of escaped Namek, Vegeta, almost everything he did in the Cell Saga he was already cocky but being a Super Saiyan made it worse.

* Tropers/{{Falconwing}}: DragoballBattleOfGods was full of all sorts of things to bitch about. But none was more infuriating than the incomprehensible decision to retcon the story behind Planet Vegeta's destruction. Instead of Freeza blowing up the planet out of fear of a Super Saiyan. He was ordered by VillainSue Beerus to do it for the most pettiest of reasons. Not only does it make Freeza look like a total pussy, it made Vegeta, and Goku's battles with him utterly pointless.

** {{Tropers/ClumpJ}}: I disagree Gohan being very cocky is a side effect caused when Saiyans first become a Super Saiyan or above, it's happened to both Goku and Vegeta also. Goku wanting to fight Frieza when he could of escaped the planet, Vegeta, almost everything he did in the Cell Saga he was already cocky but being a Super Saiyan made it worse

* GendoIkari: Honestly, the general treatment of the entire supporting cast, left a lot to be desired. Lunch is probably the worst case. At least other supporting characters got cameos during later arcs but her last apparition was at the end of the original series. ''Z'' opened with the explanation that she went away with Tien (who, upon being reintroduced, doesn't say a word about her), and she's never seen nor mentioned again. When asked, Akira Toriyama justified having forgotten about her by saying he didn't put a cameo of her at the end of the manga at the last minute. She got one at the end of the anime, at least.

* Tropers/{{Dashguy}}: The treatment of Yamcha in ''DragonBall Z'' is downright sickening. Despite being Goku’s very first rival and one of his oldest and most loyal friends, he gets unceremoniously killed by a Mook during the fight against the Saiyans. It gets worse. After he comes back to life, his role and girlfriend, whom he had known for years, get suddenly taken by a sociopath with a tendency for causing more trouble than he solves. In the end, he gets reduced to a talking piece of background.
** Tropers/{{Monsund}}: Whats even worse is that none of his friends seem to care at all that Yamcha lost the girl he had been love with for 15 years(and heavily implied to have been planning to marry). They even cracked cruel jokes at his expense. Some friends they are, what ever happened to TrueCompanions?
** GendoIkari: Honestly, the general treatment of the entire supporting cast, left a lot to be desired. Lunch is probably the worst case. At least other supporting characters got cameos during later arcs but her last apparition was at the end of the original series. ''Z'' opened with the explanation that she went away with Tien (who, upon being reintroduced, doesn't say a word about her), and she's never seen nor mentioned again. When asked, Akira Toriyama justified having forgotten about her by saying he didn't put a cameo of her at the end of the manga at the last minute. She got one at the end of the anime, at least.

* Tropers/{{MsCC93}}: Okay now I know GT isn't canon and all, but I do have a moment that counts. I remember in the Shadow Dragons Saga when the Old Kai blames Bulma for all the problems the Dragonballs caused (because she was the one who discovered it). Bulma then tries to [[NeverMyFault pin the blame on Goku.]] Okay, I know Bulma was wrong for blaming Goku, but there are two real kickers for this scene.
## In the scene, Bulma's portrayed as a hysterical, overreacting, irrational woman when she tells Old Kai to come down and tell all this to her face, causing Trunks to step in and calmly assure her that he's only speaking through her towards telepathy.
## The Old Kai is acting as though Bulma did it all on purpose. It was a complete ACCIDENT. Bulma wasn't expecting problems to occur when she discovered the dragonballs. Plus, it's not like Bulma was the only one who overused the Dragoballz, so why single her out? This may be one of the reasons why I hate the anime version of DBZ and GT so much, because it wasn't very kind to the female characters (Bulma, Chi-Chi, and to a lesser extent, Pan & Videl), and they portray them as overreacting and insane, compared to their spouses and male friends.

With this series being a LongRunner, this was only to be expected.

** NamelessTroper: Oh, Come on. That whole sequence where Trunks beats the shit out of Frieza and his father was a Dethroning Moment of Suck? Yeah, I agree that the whole relationship between Bulma and Vegeta sucks ass (and incidentally yamcha himself broke off the relationship cuz he was dating other women) and yes Goten and Trunks going SSJ makes no damn sense, but come the hell on! Not even Vegeta would be able to hold his own against Frieza and King Cold, not being a Super Saiyan yet, and Tien, Krillin, Yamcha and the rest of the gang would die in a matter of seconds, but instead a Badass from the future shows up, saves everyone's asses, is revealed to be Vegeta's son in what is quite an interesting twist, and then proceeds to inform everyone of an ominous threat that will occur within a few years- a threat that turned out to be not one, not two, but ''four'' killer Androids. In the manga, it was even better. Trunks doesn't pussyfoot around with Friezas death ball and instead kills him off in a matter of second in what was one of the most efficient battles in DBZ history. The whole thing was a CMOA for FT, even if it involved some DMOS's along the way.

** MindNarrative: If Trunks being a Super Saiyan didn't annoy you, perhaps Gohan being a 13-year-old SSJ2 would. Or Goten, who became SSJ at about six years old before learning how to fly. What unseen off-screen mid-battle trauma did Goten and child!Trunks suffer to trigger the transformation? And that's not even getting into ''GT'' where Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr., both 1/16 Saiyan, turn SSJ at about five years old in the World Tournament. Does Saiyan blood work like homeopathic medicine, where they become stronger the more their genealogy is diluted?

* [=Kantonkage=] Then at the end of DBZ, Goku runs off again!! He abandoned his family for which included his [[strike:beloved]] granddaughter to train Uub a kid he just met. Which turns out to be a waste of time, as he is immediately hit with the WorfEffect.

* Tropers/{{Darkton}} Another one from the Cell Saga was the beginning. Freeza has not only survived the explosion of Namek, but is bringing his father with him. And what's worse, they've arrived on Earth. Now, our hero lineup consists of Gohan, Kurilin, Piccolo, Vegeta, Tenshinhan, and Yamucha, with Bulma and Puar caught in the crossfire. Most of these people have died at least once, so unless there's some technicality on who brings them back, if they die this time, it's permanent. This could've made a great HoldTheLine story, as the Z-Fighters try hard not to die in battle. But that's not what happens. Instead, some purple-haired punk with blue eyes shows up and starts trash-talking Freeza. Then he... turns into a Super Saiyan? The heck? Isn't that supposed to be a "once every 1000 years" thing? Then he kills Freeza in three episodes (well, one and two eighths of episodes) where it took Goku over 20. It gets worse; he kills Freeza's father, despite him being almost as strong as Freeza, in less the time it took for Freeza to die. Then, when Goku does show up, he explains that he's the son of Bulma and Vegeta, despite the two only having one scene together. Yamucha, her official boyfriend, is said to be a playboy, despite him being afraid of women. In the end, the boy, named Trunks, sets up a saga that's basically a rip-off of TheTerminator. What just happened? Allow me to explain. A MartyStu showed up, became a Super Saiyan [[CopyCatSue (a trait also shared by Goku)]], [[GodModeSue killed Freeza and his father in seconds]], [[RelationshipSue and set up two characters who were never meant to be]].

* RAZ. The ending of the Cell saga. After transforming into Super Saiyan 2 form, Gohan decides to be a stupid, selfish idiot, ignore everyone with common sense, and drag things with Cell out, which ultimately winds up endangering all of Earth when Cell nearly explodes and as a result winds up getting Goku killed from his dumbassery. Gee, is it any wonder why readers weren't all that apt about having him play the role of TheHero after that? And aside from that, Cell officially elevates himself to VillainSue status with the way he comes back even stronger for one last match (magically in his Perfect form no less), via the Namekian regenerative cells from Piccolo that he has in him--- an ability that, I might add, has been repeatedly stated in the past to drain one's energy when it's used, which if anything would have made him weaker by that point! But nope, the usual rules are ignored in his favor so he can curbstorm everyone and even successfully wound Gohan just to try to amp up the question of if they'll make it or not. The end result is a horrible mess of a conclusion that leaves one rancid taste in my mouth.

* Dephlogisticate Vegeta's sacrifice in the Majin Buu Saga; when he uses Final Explosion, which is essentially the equivalent of a nuclear warhead going off, Majin Buu manages to regenerate. Vegeta's redeeming moment: Wasted

* [Dephlogisticate] Vegeta's sacrifice in the Majin Buu Saga; when he uses Final Explosion, which is essentially the equivalent of a NUCLEAR WARHEAD going off, Majin Buu manages to regenerate. Vegeta's redeeming moment: WASTED

* Moments only, no "[[TheScrappy just everything he said]], " "[[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontLike The entire show]], " or "[[SeasonalRot This entire season]], " entries.

** Tropers/{{zerohelix}}: Lets face it, Yamcha would have been better off just staying with King Kai. Probably Tien and Chiaotzu too.
** Tropers/{{OrangeSodaGuy}}: Honestly, the general treatment of the entire supporting cast, left a lot to be desired. Yamcha, Krillin, Master Roshi, and Tien start off as powerful fighters, but eventually fall by the wayside and become useless as more saiyans are introduced. Piccolo and Gohan eventually get DemotedToExtra in the Buu saga, and Gohan was [[WhatCouldHaveBeen originally meant to be that arc's main character!]] Loads of supporting characters like Oolong, Launch, and the Ox King are basically forgotten. Memorable villains such as Raditz, Nappa, the Ginyu Force, and even Freeza (after his defeat on Namek) had loads of potential, but most of them got curbstomped by the saiyans before they got to realize any of it. Many of them aren't even mentioned ever again afterwards (Freeza being the main exception, Raditz being the most blatant example.) Everyone in that series except Goku eventually gets killed off, fodderized, forgotten, or turned into a jobber. Goku is awesome and everything, but there were other characters.
** GendoIkari: Lunch is probably the worst case. At least other supporting characters got cameos during later arcs but her last apparition was at the end of the original series. ''Z'' opened with the explanation that she went away with Tien (who, upon being reintroduced, doesn't say a word about her), and she's never seen nor mentioned again. When asked, Akira Toriyama justified having forgotten about her by saying he didn't put a cameo of her at the end of the manga at the last minute. She got one at the end of the anime, at least.