History BrokenAesop / AnimeAndManga

30th Oct '16 7:22:07 AM flodoris
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*** Obito is portrayed as yet another potential outcome of Naruto had something gone wrong, and Obito believes that ''anyone'' would give up on the world like he did after a significant amount of despair. As stated above, the Uchiha are given FreudianExcuse after Freudian excuse to essentially say that they are naturally inclined toward evil. Therefore, Naruto doesn't work quite so well as Obito's counterpart when he is not genetically driven to insanity over emotional trauma; another Uchiha would have worked better.

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*** Obito Sasuke is portrayed as yet another potential outcome of Naruto had something gone wrong, and Obito Naruto himself believes that ''anyone'' if everything was different he would give up on be the world like he did after a significant amount of despair.same as Sasuke. As stated above, the Uchiha are given FreudianExcuse after Freudian excuse to essentially say that they are naturally inclined toward evil. Therefore, Naruto doesn't work quite so well as Obito's Sasuke's counterpart when he is not genetically driven to insanity over emotional trauma; another Uchiha would have worked better.
12th Oct '16 2:12:53 PM Tropetastic1995
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** There's the theme of the new generations surpassing the previous ones - this is, in theory, why [[TheHero Naruto]] and [[TheRival Sasuke]] manage to [[ObsoleteMentor become stronger than]] [[CoolTeacher Kakashi]], [[OldMaster Jiraiya]], [[MadScientist Orochimaru]], and the like. However, that idea is utterly negated by the revelation that [[spoiler:[[VillainSue Madara Uchiha]]]] is capable of effortlessly defeating anybody and everybody. Hashirama was even stronger than that, and it seems as though only characters who were members of the older generation are allowed to accomplish anything meaningful during the Fourth Great Shinobi War - [[spoiler: Itachi is the only one who can negate Edo Tensei, Tobi's plan would have failed a long time ago without Madara, in fact it actually was Madara's plan in the first place. Somehow it actually got worse, it's later revealed that even Madara wasn't the real BigBad. It turns out that not only was Madara manipulated by a Black Zetsu into summoning his mother, he also was casually discarded despite being virtually untouchable by the heroes.]] Naruto and Sasuke themselves join this BrokenAesop, as their ultimate powers isn't something new that they innovated or made for themselves, but old powers that the Sage gave them or that their past lives used. OlderIsBetter is in full effect in the world of ''Naruto''.

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** There's the theme of the new generations surpassing the previous ones - this is, in theory, why [[TheHero Naruto]] and [[TheRival Sasuke]] manage to [[ObsoleteMentor become stronger than]] [[CoolTeacher Kakashi]], [[OldMaster Jiraiya]], [[MadScientist Orochimaru]], and the like. However, that idea is utterly negated by the revelation that [[spoiler:[[VillainSue Madara Uchiha]]]] is capable of effortlessly defeating anybody and everybody. Hashirama was was, in their first life, even a little stronger than that, and it seems as though only characters who were members of the older generation are allowed to accomplish anything meaningful during the Fourth Great Shinobi War - [[spoiler: Itachi is the only one who can negate Edo Tensei, Tobi's plan would have failed a long time ago without Madara, in fact it actually was Madara's plan in the first place. Somehow it actually got worse, it's later revealed that even Madara wasn't the real BigBad. It turns out that not only was Madara manipulated by a Black Zetsu into summoning his mother, he also was casually discarded despite being virtually untouchable by the heroes.]] Naruto and Sasuke themselves join this BrokenAesop, as their ultimate powers isn't something new that they innovated or made for themselves, but old powers that the Sage gave them or that their past lives used. OlderIsBetter is in full effect in the world of ''Naruto''.



** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, like Hidan, Kakuzu, and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Uchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.

to:

** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, like Hidan, Kakuzu, Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Uchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.
22nd Sep '16 6:48:32 AM thezogg
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%% ** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing, but for some reason it's only when Naruto or Sasuke are involved. Kakashi who gave Sasuke lecture about not seeking revenge on Itachi for his clanmates was perfectly content with letting Team 10 seek revenge on Hidan after [[spoiler: he killed Asuma]] and even convinced Tsunade to let them go. Shikamaru was clearly satisfied on taking care of Hidan, and there were no negative consequences, with the story and the character treating Shikamaru subjecting Hidan to FateWorseThanDeath as a good thing.

to:

%% ** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing, but for some reason it's only when Naruto or Sasuke are involved. Kakashi who gave Sasuke lecture about not seeking revenge on Itachi for his clanmates was perfectly content with letting Team 10 seek revenge on Hidan after [[spoiler: he killed Asuma]] and even convinced Tsunade to let them go. Shikamaru was clearly satisfied on taking care of Hidan, and there were no negative consequences, with the story and the character treating Shikamaru subjecting Hidan to FateWorseThanDeath as a good thing.
26th Aug '16 3:41:39 PM Scabbard
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** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, like Hidan, Kakuzu, and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Ulchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.

to:

** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, like Hidan, Kakuzu, and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Ulchiha Uchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.
20th Jul '16 5:38:24 PM Prometheus117
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* ''Manga/FairyTail'' is ''big'' on highlighting ThePowerOfFriendship. So much so that many a third of the battles couldn't have been won without it. Lucy gets half her powerups because spirits like how friendly she is with them. Sticking it out for your friends is always the right thing to do... unless you're Jellal, in which case doing so gets you tortured and [[spoiler:brainwashed]], hated by everyone, and robbed on any semblance of life or freedom.

to:

* ''Manga/FairyTail'' is ''big'' on highlighting ThePowerOfFriendship. So much so that many a third of the battles couldn't have been won without it. Lucy gets half her powerups because spirits like how friendly she is with them. Sticking it out for your friends is always the right thing to do... unless you're Jellal, in which case doing so gets you tortured and [[spoiler:brainwashed]], hated by everyone, and robbed on any semblance of life or freedom. Granted, it gets better for him down the line, but it's a ''long'' path...
19th Jul '16 3:06:50 PM DoctorSleep
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** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing, but for some reason it's only when Naruto or Sasuke are involved. Kakashi who gave Sasuke lecture about not seeking revenge on Itachi for his clanmates was perfectly content with letting Team 10 seek revenge on Hidan after [[spoiler: he killed Asuma]] and even convinced Tsunade to let them go. Shikamaru was clearly satisfied on taking care of Hidan, and there were no negative consequences, with the story and the character treating Shikamaru subjecting Hidan to FateWorseThanDeath as a good thing.

to:

%% ** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing, but for some reason it's only when Naruto or Sasuke are involved. Kakashi who gave Sasuke lecture about not seeking revenge on Itachi for his clanmates was perfectly content with letting Team 10 seek revenge on Hidan after [[spoiler: he killed Asuma]] and even convinced Tsunade to let them go. Shikamaru was clearly satisfied on taking care of Hidan, and there were no negative consequences, with the story and the character treating Shikamaru subjecting Hidan to FateWorseThanDeath as a good thing.
13th Jul '16 2:17:01 PM Quanyails
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** It has been stated that trained Pokémon are stronger than wild ones, so Pokémon Trainers must train them and can't expect to win battles using untrained ones. This sends the message that you must work hard in order to attain your goals and can't be lazy and expect to get things done the easy way. Yet every time Ash used Pokémon that he had never trained or even used once (ie: Tauros and Krabby) during Pokémon League [[note]]whose participants in are supposed to be some of the strongest trainers in the region[[/note]] matches during the original series, they kicked far more ass than most of those he had used through most of his journey (ie: the Kanto starters) and thus should be more experienced. Even worse, his Krabby evolved into Kingler ''in the very first Pokémon Battle it participated in'' when most of the Pokémon Ash had with him for most of his journey and had participated in dozen of battles were still unevolved (To say nothing about the strength of said Krabby as when Ash caught it it was so weak it was locked into it's pokeball without even weakening it, something even Caterpie could fight off). The same thing had happened earlier with Ash's Primeape: it won a Pokémon fighting tournament despite being a freshly caught Pokémon that had never been trained or used in a battle before. In the same tournament participated a guy called Anthony who used a Hitmonchan he had been obsessively training to to the point of neglecting his family, yet he didn't even get to the finals. In fact, Anthony was so impressed by Ash's Primeape that he offered to take it under his mantle, apparently thinking that it was worth more than his highly trained Hitmonchan.

to:

** It has been stated that trained Pokémon are stronger than wild ones, so Pokémon Trainers must train them and can't expect to win battles using untrained ones. This sends the message that you must work hard in order to attain your goals and can't be lazy and expect to get things done the easy way. Yet every time Ash used Pokémon that he had never trained or even used once (ie: Tauros and Krabby) during Pokémon League [[note]]whose participants in are supposed to be some of the strongest trainers in the region[[/note]] matches during the original series, they kicked far more ass than most of those he had used through most of his journey (ie: the Kanto starters) and thus should be more experienced. Even worse, his Krabby evolved into Kingler ''in the very first Pokémon Battle it participated in'' when most of the Pokémon Ash had with him for most of his journey and had participated in dozen of battles were still unevolved (To say nothing about the strength of said Krabby as when Ash caught it it was so weak it was locked into it's its pokeball without even weakening it, something even Caterpie could fight off). The same thing had happened earlier with Ash's Primeape: it won a Pokémon fighting tournament despite being a freshly caught Pokémon that had never been trained or used in a battle before. In the same tournament participated a guy called Anthony who used a Hitmonchan he had been obsessively training to to the point of neglecting his family, yet he didn't even get to the finals. In fact, Anthony was so impressed by Ash's Primeape that he offered to take it under his mantle, apparently thinking that it was worth more than his highly trained Hitmonchan.
13th Jul '16 2:06:53 PM Quanyails
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* Anime/MagicalShoppingArcadeAbenobashi, at first, appears to simply be a zany [[TheresNoPlaceLikeHome trying-to-get-home]] plot as they travel from one bizarre world to the next. As it turns out, the reason they couldn't get back was [[spoiler: that Sashi was the one in control without even realizing it. Not only that, it's revealed to him that they're stuck there [[DarkerAndEdgier because he's suffering Post Traumatic Stress Disorder due to the fact that Arumi's grandfather died from the fall off his restaurant.]] Feeling guilty, he tries to distract her and prevent them from returning so she doesn't learn the truth. This fails and, in the end, they start to head home. This, however, is undermined by him unlocking a hidden power, [[ResetButton re-writing reality to prevent grandpa from dying.]]]] The moral of the story is "while tragedy really hurts, you can't hide in your own little world forever and have to face reality eventually." Or that's what it would be if not for how it ends. Instead, it comes off as "if you wish hard enough, you'll never lose anyone or anything close to you." [[{{Anime/Pokemon3}} Another work handled the "dealing with loss" message better.]]

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* Anime/MagicalShoppingArcadeAbenobashi, ''Anime/MagicalShoppingArcadeAbenobashi'', at first, appears to simply be a zany [[TheresNoPlaceLikeHome trying-to-get-home]] plot as they travel from one bizarre world to the next. As it turns out, the reason they couldn't get back was [[spoiler: that Sashi was the one in control without even realizing it. Not only that, it's revealed to him that they're stuck there [[DarkerAndEdgier because he's suffering Post Traumatic Stress Disorder due to the fact that Arumi's grandfather died from the fall off his restaurant.]] Feeling guilty, he tries to distract her and prevent them from returning so she doesn't learn the truth. This fails and, in the end, they start to head home. This, however, is undermined by him unlocking a hidden power, [[ResetButton re-writing reality to prevent grandpa from dying.]]]] The moral of the story is "while tragedy really hurts, you can't hide in your own little world forever and have to face reality eventually." Or that's what it would be if not for how it ends. Instead, it comes off as "if you wish hard enough, you'll never lose anyone or anything close to you." [[{{Anime/Pokemon3}} Another work handled the "dealing with loss" message better.]]
30th Jun '16 10:25:01 PM Kikai
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Added DiffLines:

***Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.
7th Jun '16 1:23:07 PM GrantMK2
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** In episode 65, Gary makes fun of Ash for catching so few Pokemon. Ash says that he doesn't care about the numbers, just that all of his Pokemon are his friends. This is coming from the person who has THIRTY Tauros. Is he friends with all thirty of them? Can he tell the difference between them? He hadn't even used any Tauros in battle at this point.

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** In episode 65, Gary makes fun of Ash for catching so few Pokemon. Ash says that he doesn't care about the numbers, just that all of his Pokemon are his friends. This is coming from the person who has THIRTY Tauros. Is he friends with all thirty of them? Can he tell the difference between them? He hadn't even used any Tauros in battle at this point. Even worse, it's made clear that Gary has been switching his Pokemon out regularly to use all of them. In other words, Gary's been making ties with ''all'' of his Pokemon.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=BrokenAesop.AnimeAndManga