History BrokenAesop / AnimeAndManga

9th Feb '16 5:22:39 AM NNinja
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What's an Aesop here, and how exacly was it broken?
* Being that it is essentially an [[RecycledInSpace In Space!]] retelling of ''Film/SevenSamurai'', ''Anime/SamuraiSeven'' naturally lifts a lot of its material from the original film. This, unfortunately, includes Kanbei using his movie counterpart's line about how, with the bandits and the samurai having slaughtered each other, the peasants are the only ones who have truly won, at the series end. In contrast to the movie, though, not only are the samurai portrayed here as genuinely heroic, sympathetic characters, but the peasants themselves genuinely care about and trust the samurai.
5th Feb '16 1:30:16 PM NNinja
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Added DiffLines:
** According to [[WordOfGod Kishimoto]] the overall theme of the series is that using violence to stop conflicts is wrong. DoNotDoThisCoolThing aside, such message falls flat in a story where every single conflict was resolved directly or indirectly using violence. Even when Naruto did [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath Talk The Monster To Death]] he had to beat some sense into said monster before he listened to him.
30th Jan '16 11:01:05 AM Peridonyx
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** Furthermore, the series frequently states that ShrinkingViolet-types -- most notably Hinata -- need to learn how to stand up for themselves. However, whenever said character inevitably gets their NotAfraidOfYouAnymore moment, it's usually against an enemy whom they can't possibly hope to defeat, often leading to a YankTheDogsChain CurbStompBattles until Naruto -- or someone similar -- is forced to pull a BigDamnHeroes moment anyway. So basically, even if you're ProperlyParanoid, you should just recklessly stick your neck out anyway?
to:
** Furthermore, the series frequently states that ShrinkingViolet-types -- most notably Hinata -- need to learn how to stand up for themselves. However, whenever said character inevitably gets their NotAfraidOfYouAnymore moment, it's usually against an enemy whom they can't possibly hope to defeat, often leading to a YankTheDogsChain CurbStompBattles CurbStompBattle until Naruto -- or someone similar -- is forced to pull a BigDamnHeroes moment anyway. So basically, even if you're ProperlyParanoid, you should just recklessly stick your neck out anyway?
30th Jan '16 11:00:44 AM Peridonyx
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** Furthermore, the series frequently states that ShrinkingViolent-types -- most notably Hinata -- need to learn how to stand up for themselves. However, whenever said character inevitably gets their NotAfraidOfYouAnymore moment, it's usually against an enemy whom they can't possibly hope to defeat, often leading to a YankTheDogsChain CurbStompBattles until Naruto -- or someone similar -- is forced to pull a BigDamnHeroes moment anyway. So basically, even if you're ProperlyParanoid, you should just recklessly stick your neck out anyway?
to:
** Furthermore, the series frequently states that ShrinkingViolent-types ShrinkingViolet-types -- most notably Hinata -- need to learn how to stand up for themselves. However, whenever said character inevitably gets their NotAfraidOfYouAnymore moment, it's usually against an enemy whom they can't possibly hope to defeat, often leading to a YankTheDogsChain CurbStompBattles until Naruto -- or someone similar -- is forced to pull a BigDamnHeroes moment anyway. So basically, even if you're ProperlyParanoid, you should just recklessly stick your neck out anyway?
30th Jan '16 11:00:19 AM Peridonyx
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Added DiffLines:
** Furthermore, the series frequently states that ShrinkingViolent-types -- most notably Hinata -- need to learn how to stand up for themselves. However, whenever said character inevitably gets their NotAfraidOfYouAnymore moment, it's usually against an enemy whom they can't possibly hope to defeat, often leading to a YankTheDogsChain CurbStompBattles until Naruto -- or someone similar -- is forced to pull a BigDamnHeroes moment anyway. So basically, even if you're ProperlyParanoid, you should just recklessly stick your neck out anyway?
24th Jan '16 2:59:41 PM NNinja
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Me too, just more recently. I expect that this will take some time, so please, don't add it back untill we've reached an agreement, or we'll be just making a mess.
* ''Anime/CodeGeass''. While Lelouch himself did live [[spoiler:and die]] according to his own personal code, in the sense that only the ones who are prepared to be killed should be willing to kill, several other characters who did not follow the same ethical standards weren't punished for their own crimes. In that respect, the initial Aesop would still apply to the protagonist, but not to certain characters like Cornelia, Ohgi and Villetta that can be classified under KarmaHoudini. Other issues concern whether Lelouch's [[spoiler:[[TheAtoner atonement]] through SuicideByCop may have resulted in an unspecified amount of [[InferredHolocaust implied death and destruction]]]] that could have been avoided by using other alternative methods, such as [[spoiler:living on to make up for any needless damage he had done instead of seeking [[DeathSeeker an excuse to die]]]]. At least one thing is lampshaded in-universe by Schneizel: the irony of Geassing people while claiming to fight for the free will of the common man.
19th Jan '16 12:08:20 AM azul120
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I participated in that very discussion.
Added DiffLines:
* ''Anime/CodeGeass''. While Lelouch himself did live [[spoiler:and die]] according to his own personal code, in the sense that only the ones who are prepared to be killed should be willing to kill, several other characters who did not follow the same ethical standards weren't punished for their own crimes. In that respect, the initial Aesop would still apply to the protagonist, but not to certain characters like Cornelia, Ohgi and Villetta that can be classified under KarmaHoudini. Other issues concern whether Lelouch's [[spoiler:[[TheAtoner atonement]] through SuicideByCop may have resulted in an unspecified amount of [[InferredHolocaust implied death and destruction]]]] that could have been avoided by using other alternative methods, such as [[spoiler:living on to make up for any needless damage he had done instead of seeking [[DeathSeeker an excuse to die]]]]. At least one thing is lampshaded in-universe by Schneizel: the irony of Geassing people while claiming to fight for the free will of the common man.
12th Jan '16 1:28:00 PM NNinja
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See years-old trope page discussion.
* ''Anime/CodeGeass''. While Lelouch himself did live [[spoiler:and die]] according to his own personal code, in the sense that only the ones who are prepared to be killed should be willing to kill, several other characters who did not follow the same ethical standards weren't punished for their own crimes. In that respect, the initial Aesop would still apply to the protagonist, but not to certain characters like Cornelia, Ohgi and Villetta that can be classified under KarmaHoudini. Other issues concern whether Lelouch's [[spoiler: [[TheAtoner atonement]] through SuicideByCop may have resulted in an unspecified amount of [[InferredHolocaust implied death and destruction]]]] that could have been avoided by using other alternative methods, such as [[spoiler:living on to make up for any needless damage he had done instead of seeking [[DeathSeeker an excuse to die]]]]. On the other hand, the series did repeatedly bring up the idea of destruction coming before creation and the ends justifying the means. At least one thing is lampshaded in-universe by Schneizel: the irony of Geassing people while claiming to fight for the free will of the common man.
11th Dec '15 4:27:52 PM nombretomado
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* ''YuGiOh5Ds'', several times, gives the moral that "no card is worthless, just as no person is worthless." However, this is undercut by the fact that protagonist Yusei Fudo uses one of the most powerful decks in the series, full of Synchros ranging from rare to one-of-a-kind. What's more, every time he uses "worthless" cards to make this point, he quickly reverts to his usual Deck. The one time somebody tried to apply this against him, using a Deck of weak Normal Monsters and an ace that had never been played successfully, he defeated them soundly using a Level 10 dragon from the future.
to:
* ''YuGiOh5Ds'', ''Anime/YuGiOh5Ds'', several times, gives the moral that "no card is worthless, just as no person is worthless." However, this is undercut by the fact that protagonist Yusei Fudo uses one of the most powerful decks in the series, full of Synchros ranging from rare to one-of-a-kind. What's more, every time he uses "worthless" cards to make this point, he quickly reverts to his usual Deck. The one time somebody tried to apply this against him, using a Deck of weak Normal Monsters and an ace that had never been played successfully, he defeated them soundly using a Level 10 dragon from the future.
10th Dec '15 2:22:24 AM NNinja
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See trope page discussion for details.
** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing as it will directly lead to the CycleOfRevenge, and in turn war. But rather than focusing on the reasonable example of warring factions (such as Sasuke seemingly killing Killer Bee which prompted the Raikage to seek revenge), most of the attention goes to the traditional loner villains like the example above who have no or next to no relationship ties to make the CycleOfRevenge take place at all. Just about every Akatsuki member is in it for themselves so the death of any one member only means a new position has opened up, despite how close Kabuto is to Orochimaru it's only really orriented professionally as Orochi's death only prompts Kabuto to snatch up some research notes, even Madara was considered an extremist by the other Uchiha. The moral is most strongly brought up in reference to Sasuke but the people who care about him the most know he's a dangerous criminal and aren't ones to go seeking revenge for his death either.
to:
** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing as it will directly lead to the CycleOfRevenge, and in turn war. But rather than focusing on the reasonable example of warring factions (such as Sasuke seemingly killing Killer Bee which prompted the Raikage to seek revenge), most of the attention goes to the traditional loner villains like the example above who have no or next to no relationship ties to make the CycleOfRevenge take place at all. Just about every Akatsuki member is in it thing, but for themselves so the death of any one member only means a new position has opened up, despite how close Kabuto is to Orochimaru some reason it's only really orriented professionally as Orochi's death only prompts Kabuto to snatch up some research notes, even Madara was considered an extremist by the other Uchiha. The moral is most strongly brought up in reference to when Naruto or Sasuke but the people are involved. Kakashi who care gave Sasuke lecture about him the most know he's a dangerous criminal and aren't ones to go not seeking revenge on Itachi for his death either.clanmates was perfectly content with letting Team 10 seek revenge on Hidan after [[spoiler: he killed Asuma]] and even convinced Tsunade to let them go. Shikamaru was clearly satisfied on taking care of Hidan, and there were no negative consequences, with the story and the character treating Shikamaru subjecting Hidan to FateWorseThanDeath as a good thing.
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