History BrokenAesop / AnimeAndManga

21st May '17 12:53:08 PM thezogg
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** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. But in both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.

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** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. We found out that Kakashi inherited this philosophy from Obito, who would have been killed if Kakashi had just followed through with the mission. Instead we have Kakashi rescue Obito, who through a series of events was able to become [[spoiler:Tobi. So if Kakashi had abandoned his comrades and completed the mission, Obito would have died instead of becoming Tobi. Then Nagato probably wouldn't have gone as insane, Naruto's parents would have survived and Naruto wouldn't have been an outcast, the elders wouldn't have ostracized the Uchiha which led to the Uchiha Massacre (making Sasuke nowhere near as messed up), the Moon's Eye Plan would have died with Madara, the Fourth Great Shinobi World War would have been avoided, and Akatsuki wouldn't be hunting down and killing Jinchuriki.]] But in both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.
*** Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go
on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.



*** The apex of how broken the aesop is when Sasuke gets his revenge on Danzo. Instead of his revenge causing problems propagating the cycle it instead cleaned out all of Konoha's dirty laundry and fixed their political problems. The true moral? Revenge is okay if you're a Uchiha.



** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. Well, unfortunately such villains like Gato, Sound Four, Deidara, Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do.

to:

** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. Well, unfortunately such villains like Gato, Sound Four, Deidara, Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''bmeaning because how they are born dictates and justifies their actions''.
21st May '17 5:21:28 AM flodoris
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** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. We found out that Kakashi inherited this philosophy from Obito, who would have been killed if Kakashi had just followed through with the mission. Instead we have Kakashi rescue Obito, who through a series of events was able to become [[spoiler:Tobi. So if Kakashi had abandoned his comrades and completed the mission, Obito would have died instead of becoming Tobi. Then Nagato probably wouldn't have gone as insane, Naruto's parents would have survived and Naruto wouldn't have been an outcast, the elders wouldn't have ostracized the Uchiha which led to the Uchiha Massacre (making Sasuke nowhere near as messed up), the Moon's Eye Plan would have died with Madara, the Fourth Great Shinobi World War would have been avoided, and Akatsuki wouldn't be hunting down and killing Jinchuriki.]]
*** Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.

to:

** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. We found out that Kakashi inherited this philosophy from Obito, who would have been killed if Kakashi had just followed through with the mission. Instead we have Kakashi rescue Obito, who through a series of events was able to become [[spoiler:Tobi. So if Kakashi had abandoned his comrades and completed the mission, Obito would have died instead of becoming Tobi. Then Nagato probably wouldn't have gone as insane, Naruto's parents would have survived and Naruto wouldn't have been an outcast, the elders wouldn't have ostracized the Uchiha which led to the Uchiha Massacre (making Sasuke nowhere near as messed up), the Moon's Eye Plan would have died with Madara, the Fourth Great Shinobi World War would have been avoided, and Akatsuki wouldn't be hunting down and killing Jinchuriki.]]
*** Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In
But in both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.
16th May '17 6:49:10 PM starofjusticev21
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* The show ''Wonder 3'' was seemingly made as a kid-friendlier version of ''Film/TheDayTheEarthStoodStill1951'', and has similar problems with its central premise. A coalition of alien races have taken notice of humanity's tendency toward war and send a group of scouts to study us up close and see if we deserve to survive, while bringing along a doomsday bomb to destroy the planet if they decide we do not. [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality It doesn't think to turn the mirror on its supposed "good guys"]], though. However warlike humankind is we don't know about these aliens' existence and couldn't possibly see them as an enemy, and we don't have anywhere near the technology to visit let alone threaten life in other galaxies even if we wanted to, and thus the aliens are deciding whether they should wipe us out even though we're a threat only to ourselves. It makes the aliens look like dangerous xenophobes themselves even though they're the purported heroes, with some translations of the theme song even calling their kind "angels". At least Klaatu met humanity face-to-face and opened up about his intentions.

to:

* The show ''Wonder 3'' was seemingly made as a kid-friendlier version of ''Film/TheDayTheEarthStoodStill1951'', and has similar problems with its central premise. A coalition of alien races have taken notice of humanity's tendency toward war and send a group of scouts to study us up close and see if we deserve to survive, while bringing along a doomsday bomb to destroy the planet if they decide we do not. [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality It doesn't think to turn the mirror on its supposed "good guys"]], though. However warlike humankind is we don't know about these aliens' existence and couldn't possibly see them as an enemy, and we don't have anywhere near the technology to visit let alone threaten life in other galaxies even if we wanted to, and thus the aliens are deciding whether they should wipe us out even though we're a threat only to ourselves. It makes the aliens setting themselves up as judge, jury and executioner of a species that doesn't even know they're there look like dangerous xenophobes themselves themselves, even though they're the purported heroes, with some translations of the theme song even calling their kind "angels". At least Klaatu met humanity face-to-face and opened up about his intentions.
16th May '17 6:46:17 PM starofjusticev21
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* The show ''Wonder 3'' was seemingly made as a kid-friendlier version of ''Film/TheDayTheEarthStoodStill1951'', and has similar problems with its central premise. A coalition of alien races have taken notice of humanity's tendency toward war and send a group of scouts to study us up close and see if we deserve to survive, while bringing along a doomsday bomb to destroy the planet if they decide we do not. [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality It doesn't think to turn the mirror on its supposed "good guys"]], though. However warlike humankind is we don't know about these aliens' existence and couldn't possibly see them as an enemy, and we don't have anywhere near the technology to visit let alone threaten life in other galaxies even if we wanted to, and thus the aliens are deciding whether they should wipe us out even though we're a threat only to ourselves. It makes the aliens look like dangerous xenophobes themselves even though they're the purported heroes, with some translations of the theme song even calling their kind "angels". At least Klaatu met humanity face-to-face and opened up about his intentions.
11th May '17 1:34:42 PM NNinja
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** After the whole manga of Sakura chasing Sasuke, despite him SlidingDownTheSlipperySlope the whole time the finally get together in the end. [[WordOfGod According to author]] if she gave up on him [[InformedWrongness it would make her a bad person]]. This sends a message to never give up on your love. Except [[spoiler: the ''freaking main character'']] did exacly that when after few years of in-universe time and hundreds of chapters of manga he finally stoped pursuing [[spoiler: Sakura]] instead turning his attention to [[spoiler: Hinata]] and in the end they got their HappilyEverAfter, and his decision is presented in no negative light.
30th Mar '17 10:07:20 AM flodoris
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** One of the running themes in ''Naruto'' is that no one is born evil, everyone is capable of redemption, and it's better to offer friendship to the villain than to kill them (even if you have to beat some sense into them beforehand). The track record for this one arguably starts off the best and most consistently of any of the story's aesops, however it began to break late in the story, again largely due to the Uchihas. Every member of the Uchiha family is viewed as a friend who is simply walking down the wrong path by Naruto, anyone like him, and the general narrative of the story regardless of what crimes they actually commit. On top of that, Madara and Sasuke do nothing with these chances at redemption than use them to become more evil and attempt to gain more power for themselves. And this only really seems to be for the Uchihas, with non-Uchihas like Hidan and Kakuzu both being killed (Hidan being essentially buried alive) without being given even a single chance at redemption, much less the dozen or so Sasuke alone got.
*** In addition to this, their final battle has Sasuke explicitly say he's trying to kill Naruto because he considers him his only friend. So at this point it's not so much trying to befriend the villain as much as it is trying to stop them from killing you over it. Surely, people will want to befriend the villain is that's what their friendship means. Even worse, there are implications that Madara and Obito held similar attitudes toward Hashirama and Kakashi respectively, so it's not even like Sasuke is an outlier in this or anything.
** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, like Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Uchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.
*** Sasuke is portrayed as potential outcome of Naruto had something gone wrong, and Naruto himself believes that if everything was different he would be the same as Sasuke. As stated above, the Uchiha are given FreudianExcuse after Freudian excuse to essentially say that they are naturally inclined toward evil. Therefore, Naruto doesn't work quite so well as Sasuke's counterpart when he is not genetically driven to insanity over emotional trauma; another Uchiha would have worked better.
* ''Anime/OjamajoDoremi'': An episode of the Naisho {{O|riginalVideoAnimation}}VA ends with Seki-sensei chewing out the anchor leg of her room's opponents in a swimming relay for not trying as hard as Aiko. [[spoiler:One, the opponents ''won'' that race, and two, after all her hard practicing, Aiko didn't even compete.]]

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** Sasuke is portrayed as potential outcome of Naruto had something gone wrong, and Naruto himself believes that if everything was different he would be the same as Sasuke. However, after the revelation that [[FreudianExcuse Uchiha are born more susceptible to evil in certain circumstances than others]] this becomes controversial. After all, Naruto doesn't work quite so well as Sasuke's counterpart when he is not genetically driven to insanity over emotional trauma; another Uchiha would have worked better.
** One of the running themes in ''Naruto'' Naruto is that no one is born evil, everyone is capable of redemption, and it's better to offer friendship to the villain than to kill them (even if you have to beat some sense into them beforehand). The track record for this one arguably starts off the best This is shown on such villains like: Zabuza, Haku, Gaara, Nagato, Konan, Kurama, Obito and most consistently of any of the story's aesops, however it began to break late Kabuto. But in the story, again largely due to the Uchihas. Every member of the Uchiha family is viewed as a friend series also there are such villains as: Gato, Sound Five, Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Kakuzu, Danzo and Kisame who is simply walking down the wrong path by Naruto, anyone like him, and the general narrative of the story regardless of what crimes they actually commit. even didn't given a single chance at redemption, being just killed. On top of that, we have such villains as Madara and Sasuke which do nothing with these chances at redemption than use them to become more evil and attempt to gain more power for themselves. And this only really seems this, not to be mention Orochimaru which unlike most villains in the series is completely irredeemable, however at the end of the manga, he decides to help the Shinobi Alliance for ''purely selfish reasons'', and after that, he´s treated as a friend by Naruto, as seen in [[Manga/NarutoGaiden the Uchihas, with non-Uchihas like Hidan and Kakuzu both being killed (Hidan being essentially buried alive) without being given even a single chance at redemption, much less the dozen or so Sasuke alone got.
sequel]].
*** In addition to this, their final battle has Sasuke explicitly say he's trying to kill Naruto because he considers him his only friend. So at this point it's not so much trying to befriend the villain as much as it is trying to stop them from killing you over it. Surely, people will want to befriend the villain is that's what their friendship means. Even worse, there are implications that Madara and Obito held similar attitudes toward Hashirama and Kakashi respectively, Hashirama, so it's not even like Sasuke is an outlier in this or anything.
** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, Well, unfortunately such villains like Gato, Sound Four, Deidara, Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Uchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.
*** Sasuke is portrayed as potential outcome of Naruto had something gone wrong, and Naruto himself believes that if everything was different he would be the same as Sasuke. As stated above, the Uchiha are given FreudianExcuse after Freudian excuse to essentially say that they are naturally inclined toward evil. Therefore, Naruto doesn't work quite so well as Sasuke's counterpart when he is not genetically driven to insanity over emotional trauma; another Uchiha would have worked better.
do.
* ''Anime/OjamajoDoremi'': An episode of the Naisho {{O|riginalVideoAnimation}}VA ends with Seki-sensei chewing out the anchor leg of her room's opponents in a swimming relay for not trying as hard as Aiko. [[spoiler:One, the opponents ''won'' that race, and two, after all her hard practicing, Aiko didn't even compete.]]]]
12th Jan '17 8:06:12 PM wootzits
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* The movie tie-in to ''Anime/HappinessChargePrettyCure'', ''Ballerina of the Doll Kingdom'', has the heroes being trapped in a world created from the wish of Tsumugi, a young dancer who can no longer use her legs. As they struggle to free her from the villain, they have to come to grips with some uncomfortable (but mature) lessons, such as Lovely realizing that ''not'' all problems can be fixed with hard work or wishes, and that sometimes you're unable to fulfill your dreams - and that's okay; you're fine as you are so long as you remain a good person at heart. But then it turns out that Tsumugi's paralysis was actually caused by the villain's magic, and the Precure defeating him hits the ResetButton. Yes, it's nice that she can dance again, but way to invalidate your message (and drop the ball on what was mostly a realistic, respectful message about disabilities and depression).
* ''VideoGame/InazumaEleven'' often seems to have some conflicting moral lessons depending on the situation, although this can be put down to the fact that different characters have different opinions, and no one character is perfect on their own, which in turn could be seen as a aesop of it's own.
** In the first season they seem to have the lesson "don't play as a solo, even if you feel you can score right now, pass to someone else to give them a change". In season 3 however, one of the character's entire arcs revolve around the lesson "it's fine to show off and score all the goals. True team-mates will be happy for you, not angry".
** The fact that a lot of the show resolves around how soccer is a pure sport and should be played without any methods that aren't natural in soccer (the super-dimensional aspect of it obviously being natural in-universe) can come off as broken when the "mixi-max" ability is introduced. Unlike all the other super-dimensional aspects which involve naturally evolving the ability to use the moves, this one isn't natural and involves having to take and transfer someone's aura with electronic guns. Although the ability can be done naturally too which is seen twice, and you do have to train to match the transfer subject's aura, most of the mixi-maxing is done by force with equipment. Which kinda squishes the moral that you're not supposed to use unnatural enhancements in sport.
** Although this isn't really a broken aesop, it's one that can come off as confusing, especially to young viewers which the show is aimed at: A lot of the lessons of the show is based around the fact that winning isn't everything. Which can come off as odd when the characters constantly mention and empathize how they ''must'' win certain matches and if they don't then everything they've built up become shattered. This is more confusing then broken, since the specific moral is supposed to be that you should fight to win and tell you have to win, but if you ''do'' lose then that's still okay.
** The fact that violence shouldn't be allowed in soccer is kinda broken by the fact the soccer the character's play is naturally violent. Such as, apparently charging into someone and shoving them is a bad thing to do, but it's completely fine if you electrocute and opponent so much they fall to their knees in pain.



* ''VideoGame/InazumaEleven'' often seems to have some conflicting moral lessons depending on the situation, although this can be put down to the fact that different characters have different opinions, and no one character is perfect on their own, which in turn could be seen as a aesop of it's own.
** In the first season they seem to have the lesson "don't play as a solo, even if you feel you can score right now, pass to someone else to give them a change". In season 3 however, one of the character's entire arcs revolve around the lesson "it's fine to show off and score all the goals. True team-mates will be happy for you, not angry".
** The fact that a lot of the show resolves around how soccer is a pure sport and should be played without any methods that aren't natural in soccer (the super-dimensional aspect of it obviously being natural in-universe) can come off as broken when the "mixi-max" ability is introduced. Unlike all the other super-dimensional aspects which involve naturally evolving the ability to use the moves, this one isn't natural and involves having to take and transfer someone's aura with electronic guns. Although the ability can be done naturally too which is seen twice, and you do have to train to match the transfer subject's aura, most of the mixi-maxing is done by force with equipment. Which kinda squishes the moral that you're not supposed to use unnatural enhancements in sport.
** Although this isn't really a broken aesop, it's one that can come off as confusing, especially to young viewers which the show is aimed at: A lot of the lessons of the show is based around the fact that winning isn't everything. Which can come off as odd when the characters constantly mention and empathize how they ''must'' win certain matches and if they don't then everything they've built up become shattered. This is more confusing then broken, since the specific moral is supposed to be that you should fight to win and tell you have to win, but if you ''do'' lose then that's still okay.
** The fact that violence shouldn't be allowed in soccer is kinda broken by the fact the soccer the character's play is naturally violent. Such as, apparently charging into someone and shoving them is a bad thing to do, but it's completely fine if you electrocute and opponent so much they fall to their knees in pain.
* The movie tie-in to ''Anime/HappinessChargePrettyCure'', ''Ballerina of the Doll Kingdom'', has the heroes being trapped in a world created from the wish of Tsumugi, a young dancer who can no longer use her legs. As they struggle to free her from the villain, they have to come to grips with some uncomfortable (but mature) lessons, such as Lovely realizing that ''not'' all problems can be fixed with hard work or wishes, and that sometimes you're unable to fulfill your dreams - and that's okay; you're fine as you are so long as you remain a good person at heart. But then it turns out that Tsumugi's paralysis was actually caused by the villain's magic, and the Precure defeating him hits the ResetButton. Yes, it's nice that she can dance again, but way to invalidate your message (and drop the ball on what was mostly a realistic, respectful message about disabilities and depression).
30th Oct '16 7:22:07 AM flodoris
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*** Obito is portrayed as yet another potential outcome of Naruto had something gone wrong, and Obito believes that ''anyone'' would give up on the world like he did after a significant amount of despair. As stated above, the Uchiha are given FreudianExcuse after Freudian excuse to essentially say that they are naturally inclined toward evil. Therefore, Naruto doesn't work quite so well as Obito's counterpart when he is not genetically driven to insanity over emotional trauma; another Uchiha would have worked better.

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*** Obito Sasuke is portrayed as yet another potential outcome of Naruto had something gone wrong, and Obito Naruto himself believes that ''anyone'' if everything was different he would give up on be the world like he did after a significant amount of despair.same as Sasuke. As stated above, the Uchiha are given FreudianExcuse after Freudian excuse to essentially say that they are naturally inclined toward evil. Therefore, Naruto doesn't work quite so well as Obito's Sasuke's counterpart when he is not genetically driven to insanity over emotional trauma; another Uchiha would have worked better.
12th Oct '16 2:12:53 PM Tropetastic1995
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** There's the theme of the new generations surpassing the previous ones - this is, in theory, why [[TheHero Naruto]] and [[TheRival Sasuke]] manage to [[ObsoleteMentor become stronger than]] [[CoolTeacher Kakashi]], [[OldMaster Jiraiya]], [[MadScientist Orochimaru]], and the like. However, that idea is utterly negated by the revelation that [[spoiler:[[VillainSue Madara Uchiha]]]] is capable of effortlessly defeating anybody and everybody. Hashirama was even stronger than that, and it seems as though only characters who were members of the older generation are allowed to accomplish anything meaningful during the Fourth Great Shinobi War - [[spoiler: Itachi is the only one who can negate Edo Tensei, Tobi's plan would have failed a long time ago without Madara, in fact it actually was Madara's plan in the first place. Somehow it actually got worse, it's later revealed that even Madara wasn't the real BigBad. It turns out that not only was Madara manipulated by a Black Zetsu into summoning his mother, he also was casually discarded despite being virtually untouchable by the heroes.]] Naruto and Sasuke themselves join this BrokenAesop, as their ultimate powers isn't something new that they innovated or made for themselves, but old powers that the Sage gave them or that their past lives used. OlderIsBetter is in full effect in the world of ''Naruto''.

to:

** There's the theme of the new generations surpassing the previous ones - this is, in theory, why [[TheHero Naruto]] and [[TheRival Sasuke]] manage to [[ObsoleteMentor become stronger than]] [[CoolTeacher Kakashi]], [[OldMaster Jiraiya]], [[MadScientist Orochimaru]], and the like. However, that idea is utterly negated by the revelation that [[spoiler:[[VillainSue Madara Uchiha]]]] is capable of effortlessly defeating anybody and everybody. Hashirama was was, in their first life, even a little stronger than that, and it seems as though only characters who were members of the older generation are allowed to accomplish anything meaningful during the Fourth Great Shinobi War - [[spoiler: Itachi is the only one who can negate Edo Tensei, Tobi's plan would have failed a long time ago without Madara, in fact it actually was Madara's plan in the first place. Somehow it actually got worse, it's later revealed that even Madara wasn't the real BigBad. It turns out that not only was Madara manipulated by a Black Zetsu into summoning his mother, he also was casually discarded despite being virtually untouchable by the heroes.]] Naruto and Sasuke themselves join this BrokenAesop, as their ultimate powers isn't something new that they innovated or made for themselves, but old powers that the Sage gave them or that their past lives used. OlderIsBetter is in full effect in the world of ''Naruto''.



** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, like Hidan, Kakuzu, and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Uchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.

to:

** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. The story generally didn't enforce this part of it much, as some of them, like Hidan, Kakuzu, Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''because they were born that way''. And that's ignoring the fact "loving too much" is clearly just an exaggerated positive spin on a negative trait. Uchiha tend to behave just like Sasuke does, brooding, serious, and mission oriented. The only Uchiha we really see that act differently are Sasuke's mother (who acts like a normal mother) and Obito (who's pretty much just Naruto with a bit of a Hinata complex). An Uchiha "loving too much" really never actually appears, so the trait they really have is "more likely to become obsessed with and insane over loss" which is... an evil trait they're born with.
22nd Sep '16 6:48:32 AM thezogg
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%% ** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing, but for some reason it's only when Naruto or Sasuke are involved. Kakashi who gave Sasuke lecture about not seeking revenge on Itachi for his clanmates was perfectly content with letting Team 10 seek revenge on Hidan after [[spoiler: he killed Asuma]] and even convinced Tsunade to let them go. Shikamaru was clearly satisfied on taking care of Hidan, and there were no negative consequences, with the story and the character treating Shikamaru subjecting Hidan to FateWorseThanDeath as a good thing.

to:

%% ** The story treats as if revenge is a bad thing, but for some reason it's only when Naruto or Sasuke are involved. Kakashi who gave Sasuke lecture about not seeking revenge on Itachi for his clanmates was perfectly content with letting Team 10 seek revenge on Hidan after [[spoiler: he killed Asuma]] and even convinced Tsunade to let them go. Shikamaru was clearly satisfied on taking care of Hidan, and there were no negative consequences, with the story and the character treating Shikamaru subjecting Hidan to FateWorseThanDeath as a good thing.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=BrokenAesop.AnimeAndManga