History BrokenAesop / AnimeAndManga

14th Jul '17 5:16:41 AM Arivne
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** Secondly, the Aesop: "We are all the main characters of our own lives" seem broken when you notice that the secondary characters only get a ADayInTheLimelight when their debatable CharacterDevelopment has something to do with Negi. And those that don't, like Setsuna, end up OutOfFocus even when facing their own rival in the series. Made particularly egregious the fact that Akamatsu doesn't believe this Aesop aplies to the anyone except Negi is when Kotaro says: "Negi... you're the star". Which seems somewhat OutOfCharacter for a HotBlooded, BoisterousBruiser like him.

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** Secondly, the Aesop: "We are all the main characters of our own lives" seem broken when you notice that the secondary characters only get a ADayInTheLimelight when their debatable CharacterDevelopment has something to do with Negi. And those that don't, like Setsuna, end up OutOfFocus even when facing their own rival in the series. Made particularly egregious the fact that Akamatsu doesn't believe this Aesop aplies applies to the anyone except Negi is when Kotaro says: "Negi... you're the star". Which seems somewhat OutOfCharacter for a HotBlooded, BoisterousBruiser like him.
26th Jun '17 2:27:29 AM Jojolightningfingers
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*** Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.
16th Jun '17 10:40:42 AM Isaac_Heller
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* The BeYourself message applied to Simon in the first half of ''Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann'' in regards to trying to be like Kamina falls a little flat when the Time Skip happens and Simon grows up to look and act a lot like Kamina.
2nd Jun '17 11:56:28 AM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* ''Anime/DragonBallZ'' established very early on that the dragonballs couldn't revive someone more than once, raising the tension of the series as not only did several prominent characters already die in ''Anime/DragonBall'', but Goku himself is killed off within the first few episodes and several other characters follow suite. In come the Namekian dragonballs, which it turns out can revive a single person repeatedly. Not only that, but when Majin Buu kills Earth's entire population, most of which have been revived before, it's revealed that the Namekian dragonballs got an upgrade so now they can revive entire populations even if they've already died before. So basically the story about martial artists defending the Earth is kicked to one side as any damage can be undone.
2nd Jun '17 11:34:44 AM AlienPatch
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* ''Manga/ShamanKing'': The cause the heroes fight--to prove that humanity is worth its existence--is undermined frequently by their own concessions about the innate bad streak in humanity without acknowledging the good, ''and'' [[spoiler:their hinted acceptance at the end that humanity is unlikely to change for the better or embrace the GreenAesop the shamans supposedly live by]]. The story further undermines this by rendering the only non-shaman protagonist utterly useless and giving the roles he could actually play in the story to non-Muggle characters, even in situations where him taking action would be common sense. In addition, all other non-Shamans are depicted at best as too powerless to even help themselves and at worst as greedy, self-centered, corrupt, or downright evil people. And yet the message is still supposed to be seen as in ''favor'' of humanity!
** The aforementioned GreenAesop it tries to portray is also rather screwed up, as while Shamans complain frequently about the damage humanity does to the earth, they [[MoralMyopia still use and spread the same polluting technology and building development strategies into their shaman-only settlements. They even use modern weaponry in many of their battles--some against normal humans! So how can shamans ask normal humans to adapt to supposedly better, simpler ways if shamans themselves live technologically the same way as them?

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* ''Manga/ShamanKing'': The cause the heroes fight--to prove that humanity is worth its existence--is undermined frequently by their own concessions about the innate bad streak in humanity without acknowledging the good, ''and'' [[spoiler:their hinted acceptance at the end that humanity is unlikely to change for the better or embrace the GreenAesop the shamans supposedly live by]]. The story further undermines this by rendering the only non-shaman protagonist utterly useless and giving the roles he could actually play in the story to non-Muggle characters, even in situations where him taking action would be common sense. In addition, all other non-Shamans are depicted at best as too powerless to even help themselves and at worst as greedy, self-centered, corrupt, or downright evil people. And yet the message is still supposed to be seen as in ''favor'' of humanity!
humanity.
** The aforementioned GreenAesop it tries to portray is also rather screwed up, as while Shamans complain frequently about the damage humanity does to the earth, they [[MoralMyopia still use and spread the same polluting technology and building development strategies into their shaman-only settlements. They settlements and even use modern weaponry in many of their battles--some against normal humans! humans. So how can shamans ask normal humans to adapt to supposedly better, simpler ways if [[MoralMyopia shamans themselves live technologically the same way as them?them?]]
2nd Jun '17 11:33:28 AM AlienPatch
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* ''Manga/ShamanKing''. Oh gosh, ''Shaman King.'' To understand why the story's so badly infected by this, a brief explaination is necessary, so the basic story goes like this: in 1999, a time in which humanity and human society is changing rapidly, shamans--people connected to the spirit world--are gathering from all over to choose who among them will merge with {{God}} and rule the earth for the next five hundred years. Mixed in with this conflict is a growing feeling of FantasticRacism against normal humans, due to the fact that they are rapidly leaving the old ways and expanding their cities, destroying natural environments and forgetting the importance of spirituality. Our heroes take a stand of faith in the name of humanity, while our [[BigBad villain]]--a god-like Shaman named Hao who has murdered thousands of people already--[[FinalSolution wants to kill all Muggles to create a "perfect world,"]] which he will do if he becomes the titular Shaman King and merges with God. As you can see, two major aesops that are seemingly addressed by this bare-bones synopsis are the value that humanity as a whole has despite its flaws and the obvious GreenAesop. But the writing fumbles horribly with both:
** The cause the heroes fight--to prove that humanity is worth its existence--is undermined frequently by their own concessions about the innate bad streak in humanity without acknowledging the good, ''and'' [[spoiler:their hinted acceptance at the end that humanity is unlikely to change for the better or embrace the GreenAesop the shamans supposedly live by]]. The story ''further'' undermines this by rendering the only non-shaman protagonist utterly useless and giving the roles he could actually play in the story to other, more not-Muggle characters, even in situations where him taking action would be common sense. In addition, all other non-Shamans are depicted at best as too powerless to even help themselves and at worst as greedy, self-centered, corrupt, or downright evil people. And yet the message is still supposed to be seen as in ''favor'' of humanity!
** The aforementioned GreenAesop it tries to portray is also rather screwed up, as while Shamans complain frequently about the damage humanity does to the earth, they still use and spread the same polluting technology and building development strategies into their shaman-only settlements. They even use modern weaponry in many of their battles--some against normal humans! So how can shamans ask normal humans to adapt to supposedly better, simpler ways if shamans themselves live technologically the same way as them?

to:

* ''Manga/ShamanKing''. Oh gosh, ''Shaman King.'' To understand why the story's so badly infected by this, a brief explaination is necessary, so the basic story goes like this: in 1999, a time in which humanity and human society is changing rapidly, shamans--people connected to the spirit world--are gathering from all over to choose who among them will merge with {{God}} and rule the earth for the next five hundred years. Mixed in with this conflict is a growing feeling of FantasticRacism against normal humans, due to the fact that they are rapidly leaving the old ways and expanding their cities, destroying natural environments and forgetting the importance of spirituality. Our heroes take a stand of faith in the name of humanity, while our [[BigBad villain]]--a god-like Shaman named Hao who has murdered thousands of people already--[[FinalSolution wants to kill all Muggles to create a "perfect world,"]] which he will do if he becomes the titular Shaman King and merges with God. As you can see, two major aesops that are seemingly addressed by this bare-bones synopsis are the value that humanity as a whole has despite its flaws and the obvious GreenAesop. But the writing fumbles horribly with both:
**
''Manga/ShamanKing'': The cause the heroes fight--to prove that humanity is worth its existence--is undermined frequently by their own concessions about the innate bad streak in humanity without acknowledging the good, ''and'' [[spoiler:their hinted acceptance at the end that humanity is unlikely to change for the better or embrace the GreenAesop the shamans supposedly live by]]. The story ''further'' further undermines this by rendering the only non-shaman protagonist utterly useless and giving the roles he could actually play in the story to other, more not-Muggle non-Muggle characters, even in situations where him taking action would be common sense. In addition, all other non-Shamans are depicted at best as too powerless to even help themselves and at worst as greedy, self-centered, corrupt, or downright evil people. And yet the message is still supposed to be seen as in ''favor'' of humanity!
** The aforementioned GreenAesop it tries to portray is also rather screwed up, as while Shamans complain frequently about the damage humanity does to the earth, they [[MoralMyopia still use and spread the same polluting technology and building development strategies into their shaman-only settlements. They even use modern weaponry in many of their battles--some against normal humans! So how can shamans ask normal humans to adapt to supposedly better, simpler ways if shamans themselves live technologically the same way as them?
30th May '17 3:50:21 AM DoctorSleep
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* ''Anime/DragonBallZ'' established very early on that the dragonballs couldn't revive someone more than once, raising the tension of the series as not only did several prominent characters already die in ''Anime/DragonBall'', but Goku himself is killed off within the first few episodes and several other characters follow suite. In come the Namekian dragonballs, which it turns out can revive a single person repeatedly. Not only that, but when Majin Buu kills Earth's entire population, most of which have been revived before, it's revealed that the Namekian dragonballs got an upgrade so now they can revive entire populations even if they've already died before. So basically the story about martial artists defending the Earth is kicked to one side as any damage can be undone.


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** Even Luna is bewildered by this:
--> "Sailor Moon Says"? What about "Sailor Moon Does"?


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* ''Anime/YuGiOhTheDarkSideOfDimensions'': As impressive as it was, [[spoiler: Atem returning from the afterlife to beat a foe that Yugi was struggling against was a total contradiction of the film's Aesop of accepting challenges, learning to let go and looking towards the future.]]
21st May '17 12:53:08 PM thezogg
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** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. But in both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.

to:

** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. We found out that Kakashi inherited this philosophy from Obito, who would have been killed if Kakashi had just followed through with the mission. Instead we have Kakashi rescue Obito, who through a series of events was able to become [[spoiler:Tobi. So if Kakashi had abandoned his comrades and completed the mission, Obito would have died instead of becoming Tobi. Then Nagato probably wouldn't have gone as insane, Naruto's parents would have survived and Naruto wouldn't have been an outcast, the elders wouldn't have ostracized the Uchiha which led to the Uchiha Massacre (making Sasuke nowhere near as messed up), the Moon's Eye Plan would have died with Madara, the Fourth Great Shinobi World War would have been avoided, and Akatsuki wouldn't be hunting down and killing Jinchuriki.]] But in both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.
*** Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go
on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.



*** The apex of how broken the aesop is when Sasuke gets his revenge on Danzo. Instead of his revenge causing problems propagating the cycle it instead cleaned out all of Konoha's dirty laundry and fixed their political problems. The true moral? Revenge is okay if you're a Uchiha.



** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. Well, unfortunately such villains like Gato, Sound Four, Deidara, Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do.

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** In addition to this, the story makes it clear that because nobody is born evil, anyone who is evil has a FreudianExcuse that makes them the way they are. Well, unfortunately such villains like Gato, Sound Four, Deidara, Hidan and Orochimaru, really get no excuse at all for anything they do. Once again giving special mention to the entire Uchiha clan, the story seemed to desperately want to redeem them from the very beginning, but just threw out a bunch of explanations for their behavior, seemingly at random. The ''two'' official canon explanations the story seemed to settle on about 6/7ths and 13/14ths of the way through the story respectively were that they were "cursed to love too much", meaning they would take extreme action and potentially turn evil if anyone they cared for died, and the second was that they were manipulated by an evil goddess and her underling the entire time. The former completely breaks the aesop, because the "loving too much" is a ''genetic trait''; meaning they are the way they are ''bmeaning because how they are born dictates and justifies their actions''.
21st May '17 5:21:28 AM flodoris
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** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. We found out that Kakashi inherited this philosophy from Obito, who would have been killed if Kakashi had just followed through with the mission. Instead we have Kakashi rescue Obito, who through a series of events was able to become [[spoiler:Tobi. So if Kakashi had abandoned his comrades and completed the mission, Obito would have died instead of becoming Tobi. Then Nagato probably wouldn't have gone as insane, Naruto's parents would have survived and Naruto wouldn't have been an outcast, the elders wouldn't have ostracized the Uchiha which led to the Uchiha Massacre (making Sasuke nowhere near as messed up), the Moon's Eye Plan would have died with Madara, the Fourth Great Shinobi World War would have been avoided, and Akatsuki wouldn't be hunting down and killing Jinchuriki.]]
*** Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.

to:

** One of the main morals of Naruto, as stated by Kakashi, is that while those who break the rules are scum, those who forsake their fellows are even lower than that. We found out that Kakashi inherited this philosophy from Obito, who would have been killed if Kakashi had just followed through with the mission. Instead we have Kakashi rescue Obito, who through a series of events was able to become [[spoiler:Tobi. So if Kakashi had abandoned his comrades and completed the mission, Obito would have died instead of becoming Tobi. Then Nagato probably wouldn't have gone as insane, Naruto's parents would have survived and Naruto wouldn't have been an outcast, the elders wouldn't have ostracized the Uchiha which led to the Uchiha Massacre (making Sasuke nowhere near as messed up), the Moon's Eye Plan would have died with Madara, the Fourth Great Shinobi World War would have been avoided, and Akatsuki wouldn't be hunting down and killing Jinchuriki.]]
*** Speaking of forsaking your fellows: In
But in both the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, the squad members [[TheRestShallPass peel off one by one]] to fight vastly more experienced enemies so the rest of the group can go on. In the Jiraiya Shinobi Handbook Arc, Tenten actually calls Shikamaru out for ordering Lee to stay behind as a distraction. In spite of the strategy nearly killing everyone in both arcs, everyone considers Shikamaru a smart leader and a good friend.
16th May '17 6:49:10 PM starofjusticev21
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* The show ''Wonder 3'' was seemingly made as a kid-friendlier version of ''Film/TheDayTheEarthStoodStill1951'', and has similar problems with its central premise. A coalition of alien races have taken notice of humanity's tendency toward war and send a group of scouts to study us up close and see if we deserve to survive, while bringing along a doomsday bomb to destroy the planet if they decide we do not. [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality It doesn't think to turn the mirror on its supposed "good guys"]], though. However warlike humankind is we don't know about these aliens' existence and couldn't possibly see them as an enemy, and we don't have anywhere near the technology to visit let alone threaten life in other galaxies even if we wanted to, and thus the aliens are deciding whether they should wipe us out even though we're a threat only to ourselves. It makes the aliens look like dangerous xenophobes themselves even though they're the purported heroes, with some translations of the theme song even calling their kind "angels". At least Klaatu met humanity face-to-face and opened up about his intentions.

to:

* The show ''Wonder 3'' was seemingly made as a kid-friendlier version of ''Film/TheDayTheEarthStoodStill1951'', and has similar problems with its central premise. A coalition of alien races have taken notice of humanity's tendency toward war and send a group of scouts to study us up close and see if we deserve to survive, while bringing along a doomsday bomb to destroy the planet if they decide we do not. [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality It doesn't think to turn the mirror on its supposed "good guys"]], though. However warlike humankind is we don't know about these aliens' existence and couldn't possibly see them as an enemy, and we don't have anywhere near the technology to visit let alone threaten life in other galaxies even if we wanted to, and thus the aliens are deciding whether they should wipe us out even though we're a threat only to ourselves. It makes the aliens setting themselves up as judge, jury and executioner of a species that doesn't even know they're there look like dangerous xenophobes themselves themselves, even though they're the purported heroes, with some translations of the theme song even calling their kind "angels". At least Klaatu met humanity face-to-face and opened up about his intentions.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=BrokenAesop.AnimeAndManga