This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Sinking the Ship launched as Ship Sinking Discussion: From YKTTW
- Chapter 469 of Naruto has Sakura spending nine pages (which is half of the chapter) telling Naruto that she's given up on Sasuke (who she's had a crush on since before the manga began) and now wants to be with Naruto (who's had a crush on her for almost as long). Cue cheering by Naruto/Sakura fans and disappointment for fans of other ships involving either character, right? Not so fast. The final panel has Naruto rejecting her.
- It's even worse because in her confession Sakura says virtualy every argument used by NaruSaku shippers about why Naruto and Sakura belong to each other. Take That! anyone?
- It's also quite obvious she's lying/insincere, and everyone can tell judging by their reactions.
- That's probably the reason for the whole rejection thing
Seriously, message to shippers period: take your obvious shipping war fodder to a place where it doesn't amount to pure spam. No, it's not obvious right now who's going to end up with who, and nothing is supposed to have been decisively sunk yet. Your shipping war is making the wiki stink.
- The Lust Arc in Bleach could be interpreted as the sinking of the Ichigo/Orihime ship, seeing as how they brought out the worst in each other. Orihime's dependence on Ichigo caused her to collapse into a whimpering mess, in turn causing Ichigo to turn into something he despises. There's no way they could become lovers after this without some serious Character Derailment, but it's still too early to tell.
....just...wut? If it's too early to tell, why bother listing it under this trope?
Bones: I agree. It's an interesting theory, but NOTHING in the text indicates this is happening or actually going to happen. I'm not sure how anyone reading the story normally (i.e, without shipping or anti-shipping glasses) could possibly come to this conclusion.
Helter Skelter: And be reminded, Ship Sinking is when the creator deliberately turns down a couple in a scene, making it absolutely positive they will not end up together. And, while I'm not a shipper, and while those chapters didn't confirm Orihime and Ichigo, it certainly didn't discredit it, considering how batshit Ichigo went to protect Orihime (you know, attacking his own Nakama, coming back from the brink of death to save her). That's a very shippy interpretation of the entire chapter.
"Recent events in Naruto, while not yet final, seem prepared to kill off at least one ship. Hinata finally confessing her love to Naruto, only to get blown away by Pain on the next page. So either she's going to die and so is the Naruhina ship, or she isn't and Naruto will soon have to decide which route he wants to take.
- Subsequent chapters have shown that Hinata has good chances of survival, so most assuredly the ball is now on Naruto's court.
- To be honest, rather than being a Ship Sinking, Hinata's survival would as good as confirm them as the Official Couple.
- ...thereby sinking any ship with Naruto or Hinata with another person, most notably Naruto and Sakura.
- Naruto is no way obligated to return the feelings. Then again, we may end with no pairing."
- Subsequent chapters have shown that Hinata has good chances of survival, so most assuredly the ball is now on Naruto's court.
Bones:Natter, and no ships have actually been sunk yet; it's just a case of both sides of the Ship-to-Ship Combat being too presumptuous. (And a special announcement to the relevant people: Naruto is not your boyfriend.)
Working Title: Sinking the Ship: From YKTTW
BT The P: This really should be "Scuttle the Ship", as that's a more accurate term for a maritime self-destruct. Of course, I'm getting a bit tired of all the shipping titles using the strained naval pun anyway.
Lale: Looks like we have our own Overused Running Gag.
Rob Mandeville: How about Luke and Leia?
Scifantasy: OK...who's Robert Bingham and have we ever met?
Robert Bingham: I don't think we have. I ended up finding your page through Steven Savage's Livejournal (he goes by dragonscholar). It was a damned good tribute to the big shipper shitstorm in general.
Scifantasy: Heh, good old SS. Thanks for the nod.
meiriona Little Women was autobiographical. The shipping factor was less to spite fans and more the author not changing what really happened.
That Other 1 Dude: Removed for being natter; saved for being funny:
- When this Troper first started watching Avatar, the cast reminded him quite a bit of early Dragonball (Aang as Goku, Katara as Bulma, Sokka as Oolong, and Bumi as Roshi to name a few) and some of the earlier stories were also reminiscent of that series. So he thought that since Zuko was obviously Vegeta, the writers were going to pair up Katara and Zuko. Although come to think of it, the Vegeta/Bulma relationship made no sense either...
- Who's Toph in that equation? Piccolo?
- Well, they both have a green color motif...
- And awesome taste in hats! (Shame she only gets to wear it for one episode.)
- When this Troper first started watching Avatar, the cast reminded him quite a bit of early Dragonball (Aang as Goku, Katara as Bulma, Sokka as Oolong, and Bumi as Roshi to name a few) and some of the earlier stories were also reminiscent of that series. So he thought that since Zuko was obviously Vegeta, the writers were going to pair up Katara and Zuko. Although come to think of it, the Vegeta/Bulma relationship made no sense either...
Vampire Buddha does the same!
- This troper is extremely curious of what will happen next, since a death threat didn't stop the shippers. A Groin Attack? A Break The Woobie Hannibal Lecture? An attempt to carry out the aforementioned death threat? A successful attempt to carry out the aforementioned death threat?
- Having seen the Comic-Con preview for Fire's remaining episodes, this troper has come to the painful conclusion that, even after the death threat Mike, Brian, and Aaron enjoy taunting and teasing not only Zutara, but also every major 'ship in the series, solely for their own twisted amusement.
- After seeing the leak of the latest episode, I have to say it probably sank a few Zutara-fans: Such as a declaration of love from Mai in the end.
- Zutara was always a fanon ship and the majority of Zutarians know it. They were glad of the appearances of "ship sinking" instances because it meant that the pair of them would actually have some screen time. Two members of the gAang couldn't hate each other, so they'd have to dedicate time to showing Katara changing her mind and forgiving Zuko. Bluntly, after 2 and a half seasons of politely ignoring canon, nothing bothers those crazy crazy shippers.
- The return of and integration in to the gAang of Suki has probably sank Tokka as well.
- We hope....
- Some Tokka fans hope otherwise...
- And with the finale over and done, Zutara and Tokka have been sunk so deep, they put it in a little box, and threw the box in the ocean, and the only way they're finding that box again is to send in motherfucking Jacques Cousteau.
- Tokka wasn't sunk as deep, considering how little epic Sukka got in the finale. Although it was still pretty sunk. Maybe in a medium box at the bottom of Lake Laogai.
- To be fair, they at least avoided being mean-spirited: Zuko ends up Taking the Bullet for Katara, and Sokka sacrifices his boomerang and sword to save Toph as they have a heartbreaking we're-about-to-die hand-holding moment. They're at least really good friends, it just that it's nothing compared to how close the Official Couples are.
- Of course, you can't make one ship any more canon then the last scene of the series being the two having a long kiss.
- Not to mention that the scene with Zuko's reunion with Mai was so touchingly domestic (she even helps him put on his formal robes and tie his... well, belt) that if you sprang it on a viewer unfamiliar with the characters, and muted the sound so that he didn't hear the dialogue indicating the contrary, then he'd almost certainly believe that the two people in that shot were husband and wife.
...at the end of the series finale when Zuko and Mai were shown to be committed to each other, Mai specifically commenting that she was "The Firelord's girlfriend" in the scene. and in the final shot before the words THE END appeared Aang and Katara were shown passionately kissing each other in a way that makes it obvious she does NOT think of him like a brother.
- Several irate Zutara factions have been up in arms about the creators' antagonism post-finale, to the point of accusing Aang of being a canon Gary-Stu which Mike and Bryan vicariously live their fanboy wish fulfillment via Kataang. But as indifferent as this troper is to shipping, the creators *did* seem to take Zutara just a little too personally...
- Considering how hardcore some Zutarians were, I thought they (Mike and Bryan) were VERY dignified in their mocking. It's THEIR story, and THEIR characters, THEIR canon being ripped apart and glued back all wrong. How many Zutarians claimed to be able to write the show better than them? How many decided they knew Bryke's characters better than they did? A huge pile of Zutarians claimed they hated the finale, the whole show, the creators—hell, even the broadcasting station. Book Four: Air; Chapter One: Forbidden Love? Totally fair. The Zutarians (and Tokkaneers, I'm ashamed to say) spent three years clumsily (or skillfully, but still rudely) manipulating their art into twisted circumstances. So Bryke took OUR art and manipulated it. Sweet payback!
- If Mike and Bryan really have mean-ish intentions towards the Zutara ship... well, at least they show their dislike (if true) with style. Compare their way with the blatant bashing of whoever (creators included) gets in the way of their OTP from militant Zutarians. On the other hand, no other ship, except the main official ship of Aang/Katara, got as much attention (fan service?) as Zutara.
- Several irate Zutara factions have been up in arms about the creators' antagonism post-finale, to the point of accusing Aang of being a canon Gary-Stu which Mike and Bryan vicariously live their fanboy wish fulfillment via Kataang. But as indifferent as this troper is to shipping, the creators *did* seem to take Zutara just a little too personally...
In response to some of the posts in this talk page: I disagree that simply interpreting a story a different way from the author(s), be it with shipping or other themes, is disrespectful to them or "twisting their work". The audience isn't always coming from the same place the author is, nor will they end up seeing things exactly the way they do. That's the beauty of storytelling - it can take on a life of it's own (and personally I think any author who is offended by that needs to bring down their ego a notch).
Lale: Cut because that isn't Ship Sinking, it's just... other ships happening. It was nothing personal... unlike "Forbidden Love."
- I agree with this - I think the Avatar section needs some serious cleanup and revision. Seems like a bunch of Kataang/Maiko fans with a vendetta got their hands on this page, hence like, ten paragraphs of gleefully immature "OMG AANG AND KATARA KISSED OMG MAIKO IS CANON LOL IN UR FACE ZUTARA!!1!" type rambling. Other ships simply becoming canon does not count as ship sinking... unless of course canon shippers think Bryke invented Maiko and Kataang for no reason other than to piss off Zutarians. This page should be edited to more accurately reflect the trope. In fact, I'll do it myself and take out the irrelevant stuff... feel free to review the changes. If you people must infect TV Tropes with your shipwank, leave it in the discussion area.... *sigh*
- Err. One reply from a person, one break, okay? About your massive "Bryke-bashing" editing of the Avatar section, contributed and worked upon by more than one person - just eh... atm. I don't like doing anything that resembles work during Easter. (returns after checking IP Addresses) Considering that you already tried to delete the entire Avatar section... oh yeah, will leave this matter after Easter.
- I agree with this - I think the Avatar section needs some serious cleanup and revision. Seems like a bunch of Kataang/Maiko fans with a vendetta got their hands on this page, hence like, ten paragraphs of gleefully immature "OMG AANG AND KATARA KISSED OMG MAIKO IS CANON LOL IN UR FACE ZUTARA!!1!" type rambling. Other ships simply becoming canon does not count as ship sinking... unless of course canon shippers think Bryke invented Maiko and Kataang for no reason other than to piss off Zutarians. This page should be edited to more accurately reflect the trope. In fact, I'll do it myself and take out the irrelevant stuff... feel free to review the changes. If you people must infect TV Tropes with your shipwank, leave it in the discussion area.... *sigh*
Eh... someone deleted the entire Avatar: The Last Airbender section. Obviously, I have re-added it.
Oh my... now it seems the Avatar ship sinking section is making Bryke look like the bad guys. I will just include the non-butthurt version below for reference for folks who want to make it sound less butthurt.
- Gonna have to disagree with you there. It seems the Avatar fans here don't even begin to understand the correct definition of this trope. A good 60% of the previous version was irrelevant. Ship sinking is a direct, obvious attack on a a ship by the creators. Things that happen in canon to contradict it are nothing personal... again, other ships simply happening have nothing to do with this. "Kataang kissed at the end! Oh ho ho they got those other shippers good!" is just personal schadenfreude from other fans, not actual ship sinking. Come on people, this fandom is petty enough as it is. How are Mike & Bryan being made out to look like the "bad guys"? Their thoughts on Zutara and Zutara fans are... obvious. It's not like anyone slandered them or put anything on this page that they didn't do... Well, if you hate Zutara (and honestly, I suspect a lot of tropers here do) then no amount of bashing it will ever satisfy you - and of course you'll never be convinced that Bryke stepped over the line. However, I've been in a lot of fandoms and have never seen creators go after shippers like this. The animosity Bryke have for Zutara is pretty unique. (And no, I'm not a Zutara fan either. I'm more partial to Zuko/Jin.)
- (amused) You don't need to break for every paragraph, you know.
- Gonna have to disagree with you there. It seems the Avatar fans here don't even begin to understand the correct definition of this trope. A good 60% of the previous version was irrelevant. Ship sinking is a direct, obvious attack on a a ship by the creators. Things that happen in canon to contradict it are nothing personal... again, other ships simply happening have nothing to do with this. "Kataang kissed at the end! Oh ho ho they got those other shippers good!" is just personal schadenfreude from other fans, not actual ship sinking. Come on people, this fandom is petty enough as it is. How are Mike & Bryan being made out to look like the "bad guys"? Their thoughts on Zutara and Zutara fans are... obvious. It's not like anyone slandered them or put anything on this page that they didn't do... Well, if you hate Zutara (and honestly, I suspect a lot of tropers here do) then no amount of bashing it will ever satisfy you - and of course you'll never be convinced that Bryke stepped over the line. However, I've been in a lot of fandoms and have never seen creators go after shippers like this. The animosity Bryke have for Zutara is pretty unique. (And no, I'm not a Zutara fan either. I'm more partial to Zuko/Jin.)
Austin: I removed the Goku/Bulma entry for Dragonball. True ship sinking is when an author specifically denounces a certain pairing, but in this case it was just characters hooking up with other characters, and by that standard every single fictional relationship counts as ship sinking.
Ry Senkari: Is it really necessary to pothole "don't always count on that" to Fan Dumb? Fans having their own opinion on character ships, even those that differ from official canon, isn't something worthy of being bashed unless they try to enforce that opinion on other fans.
—-
Non-butthurt version of the Avatar Ship-Sinking Section which someone already tried to delete entirely.
- It seems the writing team of Avatar The Last Airbender absolutely hate the Katara/Zuko (Zutara) pairing. They've tried to torpedo the pairing numerous times... once just outright teasing them with a scene that looked like Katara was going to lead Zuko to the path of righteousness, but immediately dumping him once Aang shows up to rescue her and further destroying it by having Zuko head back to The Dark Side... and when Zuko finally goes good for real? Katara threatens to kill him if he betrays them again and means it. But what do Zutara fans say? "It's Slap-Slap-Kiss, honest!" (They must be watching a different show...)
- They fired another torpedo at the ship, with the end of Boiling Rock, when Mai sacrifices everything except her own life, to save Zuko. After this, any pursuit of Zutara would paint Zuko as a horribly insensitive jerk. Obviously, the Zutara Fan Dumb didn't buy it... even when we see that Mai was willing to sacrifice herself for Zuko, and her survival of Azula's wrath came as a complete surprise to everyone involved — including her.
- The writers took a page out of J.K. Rowling's book (see below) and strafed the Zutara ship in "The Ember Island Players", where the versions of the Gaang in the play behave exactly like the most rabid Zutarians would like — "Katara" is dreamily nursing a crush on "Zuko" while she and "Aang" gleefully declare themselves to be Like Brother and Sister. The reactions from the real characters had both Zuko (disgusted) and Katara (incredulous) rapidly putting as much space between them as they could, and poor Aang goes positively livid with jealousy.
- The funny thing is, during the intermission of the play in the episode, when Aang actually confronted Katara he made no mention of Zuko whatsoever. Aang was mad because of Actor!Katara's comment that he was like a little brother. It wasn't about jealousy of Zuko, otherwise he probably would have asked about Zuko or been mad at Zuko. That sort of indicates that even Aang saw the pairing as having no potential, right?
- Plus, in the finale — both Katara and Zuko recoiled with similar expressions of distaste and two coordinated literal and subverted "She Is Not My Girlfriend" when June, the bounty-hunter, 'teased' them about being a couple. Of course, that alone probably wouldn't have been enough, so nuclear-tipped torpedoes were employed at the end of the series finale, when Zuko and Mai were shown to be committed to each other, Mai specifically commenting that she was "The Firelord's girlfriend" in the scene. and in the final shot before the words THE END appeared, Aang and Katara were shown passionately kissing each other in a way that makes it obvious she does NOT think of him like a brother.
- Would the interview with the Avatar creators included in the Sozin's Comet novelization count as a torpedo (or two)? According to Mike, Zutara was "never intended" while Bryan said, "Come on, kids! "Zutara" never would have lasted! It was just dark and intriguing." This isn't the only time they have personally discredited Zutara.
- Now there's this Take That! July 2008 Comic Con footage. If the above sunk the ship with nuclear torpedoes, then this one dropped a +50 Asteroid of Smiting on it.
- The finale commentaries included in the Season 3 Box Set affirms that it's always been about Aang and Katara. Plus, Mai and Zuko had mutual crushes on each other since childhood.
Rogue 7: Pulled the bit about Hawkeye and Mustang from the Fullmetal Alchemist manga. Just because they aren't together yet doesn't mean the ship is sunken, and with that level of Unresolved Sexual Tension between the two of them, I'd be amazed if it didn't happen.
Red Viking: Removed the following Natter: Then again, you could choose to ignore the Word of God about Lelouch's death, at which point certainly you're free to believe the C.C. pairing is anything but sunk. Cart driver, ftw!
Deadpool Fan: Is it just me or does the entire section on Avatar seem like it was written by several bitter Zutara fans? I know mileage may vary... but it just seems so slanted with stuff like "Middle finger to fans", "Taking without permission" and "Mocking at fans expense" almost as if someone thinks the creators hate Zutara. My personal opinion is they found it interesting, but they didn't take it all that seriously and thought it was funny that some fans of the show did take it seriously.
I'm not saying to get rid of it all, I just think it could be written in a more fair and balanced way is all.
Amused Fan: From the IP Addresses, it looks just like one "bitter" Zutara fan. Like you, I do not think Bryke actually hates the ship. A couple of Avatards and me (who adore Bryke) considered "wasting some time" to make it less "blaming Bryke"-sounding, but we were all - ... but... we kinda like the idea of Bryke (who is awesome!) actually disliking Zutara (which is not awesome) that much.
Zutara used to be just a fan-favorite ship. Now, it's a leading example of a fanon ship whose shippers were so rabidly demanding that it is or should it be made canon (just because they say so) that it instead became the ship that the creators, Avatar staffers, non-Zutara Avatar fans and even non-Avatar fans crack jokes about.
CCMars: About the Avatar shipwars...can this non-watcher (it's a good show, it just isn't high on my list of interests) get something off her chest? I'm really finding ALL of you - shippers (and that means ALL SIDES, not just "Zutaras" or whatever) and creators - to be absolutely pathetic. I don't think I've ever seen such childishness from both a fandom and said-fandom's creators, and I've been among the shippers in the Digimon and Gundam Wing fandoms. I see the animosity everywhere Avatar is merely mentioned, to the point where I panic when someone brings up Avatar-related ships, no matter how civil the discussion is. And again, I don't even watch the show. So...yeah. Those are my thoughts on yaoi Avatar shipping. Don't mind me.
Orihime: Took this off.
- "Wishology" pretty much did this to the Timmy/Tootie ship, despite the obvious fact that Trixie didn't deserve Timmy the way Tootie did (not to mention an earlier episode revealing that Timmy's married to Tootie in the future, and Trixie's not going to remember being Timmy's girlfriend anyway). To add insult to injury, one of Tootie's most recent appearances made her look like the villain she clearly isn't. Needless to say, this troper swore off of Nickelodeon when he saw that "Wishology" was sinking the wrong ship.
- I'm sensing a little Die for Our Ship in this trooper. Actually, it was never confirmed who Timmy actually married in the future sicne it could have just as easily been Trixie as well.
- Really?? The ending of Channel Chasers makes it PAINFULLY obvious that Timmy/Tootie was canonized (at least from that point to the future). The children are carbon copies of Timmy and Tootie, except for the hair color.
- Uhm, no. The girl looks like Tootie, but the boy looks like Trixie. For all that we know, Timmy could've settled for BOTH girls.
I don't care if you ship Tootie/Timmy, bashing Trixie and whining like this is a no-no. Re-write it with less Trixie hate or put it in Dethroning Moment Of Suck like it is, but keep your Trixie hate out of this. And this comes from a Timmy/Tootie diehard shipper, for God's sake.
Caswin: I can't speak for the rest of the things deleted on the 16th, but I thought I should preserve this in its entirety:
- The finale of Teen Titans may as well have been titled "Sorry, Shippers". This editor, a fervent BB/Terra shipper at the time, half-expected to hear the strains of the Rolling Stones "You Can't Always Get What You Want" over the end credits. What's worse is the fact that the episode was also Terra's Back from the Dead moment, making BB/Terra the ship so nice they sank it twice.
