Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Lale: Wasn't the fourth season of Sailor Moon the one to introduce the Outer Senshi? I thought that was one of the most popular arcs because of the Official Couple of Uranus and Neptune, unless this is referring to the dub Macekre.

ralphmerridew: No, the third season introduced the outers, and they weren't even in the fourth season.
Sikon: Speaking of Star Trek, "most"? [Citation needed].

Zeke: That's a major pet peeve of mine. Any time "most" is used about a fandom, citation is both needed and impossible. Unfortunately, "many" can be used pretty much with impunity.
Rothul: Removed

The season has not yet concluded, thus marking at "rotten" at this point seems premature.

Laurus: Am I the only one who thinks that the Harry Potter books didn't get worse, and that maybe people think there's a difference because they just developed better tastes along the way? I mean, I like the books, but I don't think the first ones are better than the last. Sometimes I wonder if it's a case of reading the first books when you're young, then reading a lot of different (and better) books, and finding out that the last couple of books aren't as great as you thought they'd be when they finally come out.
  • My reply would be that the series definitely shifts in tone once Voldermort and his Death Eaters come back (books 5, 6, 7). I've read reviews that speculate that rocketing popularity motivated the author to start writing darker and more adult. (I don't mean the storyline, plot, death meter, etc.—the arc of the series was planned out from the start. I mean the tendency for the books to be more like Epic Serious Artistic Literature and less like Harry's Years At Magic School.)

Semiapies: The idea of calling a shaky first season an example of "seasonal rot" seems rather off to me.

Haven: For Justice League, at least, the Seasonal Rot label actually feels like it's spot-on to me, partly because of intuition, partly becasue in some ways it's like a "season" of the DCAU.

Austin: What happened to the fifth season of Teen Titans, the fourth season of Yu-Gi-Oh and the fifth season of Angel? They used to be on this list.

Furi Kuri: I would argue that the fifth season of Teen Titans is actually the second-best (besides the non-ending), but that's just me.

Haven: that I have the thought of "Boiling Rock" as a one-parter and "Southern Raiders" as a two-parter in my head, it's not going to go away >.> We coulda skipped Chit-Sang & his girlfriend for more chibi!Katara :(
  • Avatar is a weird case of half Seasonal Rot; the first half of the third season (everything before "Day of Black Sun") has been criticized for weak plots and having an overabundance of Filler episodes.
    • Not that the second half is entirely innocent. There's the fandom-dividing reaction to the Grand Finale, and the second half is not without it's serious plotting and pacing problems. Not to mention how lots of loose ends were ignored in favor of said weak plots and filler episodes. For example: "The Boiling Rock" could have easily been one part, due to how Chit Sang (along with his friend and girlfriend) and the reintroduction of Hadoka were pretty much useless to the rest of the story. Fans hopes that they would have a reason for appearing were dashed. However, fans who criticized "The Southern Raiders" thought it needed to be a two-parter for pacing, and to adequately develop certain plot points such as Kya, and how Katara's (non-romantic) feelings towards Zuko go from murderous hate to big *cough*Zutarian fan service*cough* hugs. Pretty insane, huh?

Lale: This would make a great discussion on LiveJournal, but not as a TV Tropes example. Avatar was great from start to finish; some just love to Accentuate the Negative.

Andrew: You could make that case for any example on here. Just because you disagree with it is no reason to remove it because it's a legitimate example, plus a pretty common opinion. I'm so tired of some Avatar fans deleting examples because they don't want to admit that Avatar does indeed have low points.

Lale: Look at what it says. Two episodes with nitpicky flaws. "Fandom divided." Shipping. That's extreme enough to be Seasonal Rot? The verdict on a Mind Rape controversy was if the wording of an example has to be overly fair and explanatory, it's not a clear example. You could pick every show in the world apart at that level and point out problems.

There's another problem: how could all the episodes listed as evidence of Seasonal Rot also be cited as Crowning Moment of Awesome?

That Other 1 Dude: Isn't season three listed under Your Mileage May Vary already?

Lale: And if Your Mileage May Vary and Seasonal Rot are the same, one of them would be cut listed. Look at all the high ratings and celebrations and positive feedback in response to the final season and series finale referenced online. The frequency of sub-par episodes is no greater than the first two. Season 2 was definitely the best, but "less than best" does not equal "rot," does it? People just like to Accentuate the Negative.
Lale: I've never seen The Batman, but how can the first season be seasonal rot? Wouldn't that just be... not good?

That Other 1 Dude: Well, it's before the show Grew The Beard so I guess that's not "Rot"... though that would mean you also can't count any other first seasons of shows Growing the Beard (including the original one).

Lale: I wouldn't because the trope that applies in that case would be, well, Growing the Beard.

Great show goes bad for a season = Seasonal Rot Great show goes bad at one defining point and stays that way = Jump the Shark Not so good show gets better = Growing the Beard

That Other 1 Dude: Then that thing about Star Trek: The Next Generation wouldn't count. If fact, since the third season of the original series was the last, that might not count either... or Voyager because that's debating whether the fourth season was Jumping the Shark or Growing the Beard. OK, we need to decide the difference between this and Jumping the Shark, and go through the examples. If a show goes bad and stays that way but doesn't happen at a defining point, then would that be Season Rot or Jumping the Shark.

Morgan Wick: If a show starts great and keeps getting worse with each passing season, that should be Seasonal Rot if only because that's what the title implies.
Danel: How is this not a Subjective Trope? The trope description makes it seem as if this should be based around settled fannish opinion years after the fact, but that's certainly not true of a good half of the examples.

Austin: Probably because it's not SUPPOSED to be subjective, but people constantly miss the point of these tropes, and think it's okay to add in their own personal hated seasons. Another problem might be that some people are so biased, that for them, "the rest of the fan base" might mean "three other people."
Austin: Alright, Angel season four? For one thing, I've seen more hatred for season 5 due to the change in setting and characters, and anyone who thinks Angelus had villain decay wasn't paying attention. His cruelty and psychological mind screws were at their peak in season four. So is it true that it's widely regarded to the be the worst, or is this just a personal opinion.

Zeke: I certainly don't know of any massive anti-S4 sentiment, though I know individual viewers who don't like it. S3 and S5 are cited as bad more often in my experience. I've edited to point this out. By the way, your "three other people" remark above is bang-on.
Crazyrabbits: I'm going to have to rewrite the synopsis for this page when I have the time. It's still way too vague, and half the entries have been added by people who can't seem to agree when the show dipped in quality. There needs to be more of a reason then "fans disagree" or "maybe it was the first, fourth AND sixth seasons". Provide verifiable evidence that the core premise of the show has changed in a one-off scenario.
Antwan: I may barely know this trope, but there are a lot of Your Mileage May Vary references here. Isn't it supposed to be unanimously agreed or something? And how do we know that the person that put that reference is only that person's opinion and nobody else's?
Sapphire Forever: The Ren and Stimpy example doesn't bring up that there was, unfortunately, a good reason Nickelodeon broke John K. and the show up, as noted at Small Name, Big Ego. He didn't complete his work on time, frustrating fans who had to wait for new episodes, to the point The Simpsons was making jokes about it. Plus, he pushed the limits of the standards and practices board once too often.
Saeder: Goldfish Scooping Game states that Haruhi Suzumiya has one of these. I'm assuming it's talking about the Endless Eight thing people kept complaining about, but I haven't seen it. Does it belong here?
Dausuul: Am I the only one who thinks Buffy Season 6 was one of the stronger seasons? Yes, it had some crappy episodes and story arcs *cough*magicaddictionbullshit*cough*, but the season as a whole was reasonably solid, if not up to the standard of Seasons 2 and 3. Certainly it was much, much stronger than Seasons 4, 5, and 7. (Yes, the Trio made a pathetic Big Bad, but come on—put them up beside Adam, Glory, and the First Evil, they look a lot better. And Dark Willow was quite good IMO.)

Also, the paragraph that begins "Every series will eventually succumb to irreversible and progressively worsening Seasonal Rot..." seems paradoxical to me. If it's irreversible and progressively worsening, isn't that Jumping the Shark? I thought Seasonal Rot was about one season (or a couple of seasons together) where the quality of the show dips before recovering.

And this is totally a Subjective Trope. I can't see how anyone could claim it's not.

Britninja: You're not. I thought the trio were a good change of pace. I think they would have struggled to come up with a supernatural evil that could top Glory. It's hard to top fighting a god in terms of menace. I liked their arc too, how they went from being ridiculous into a much darker and more menacing place - and of course eventually did the Scoobies more damage than any supernatural evil ever did. It's not the absolute best series, but the thing is Buffy at its worst still beats the pants off plenty of other shows, and it had some fantastic individual episodes.

And yeah, totally subjective. Right this minute I'm disagreeing with you about Season 5 - that's my favourite along with 3.

Dausuul: Rewrote the main definition for internal consistency. Also rewrote the Buffy example to reflect the lack of consensus on Season 6. I did put a tag note to the effect that Seasons 4 and 7 get the most consistently low marks, which I think is a fair assessment - anyone disagree?

Britninja: Nnn, though I know plenty of people who thought 7 was a return to form after a poorer 6. I'd say actually 4 is the only one that's really widely considered to be a weaker moment. While plenty of people have strong opinions on the rest, I wouldn't say there's anything like a fandom-wide consensus on any of them. Which, I feel like this page ought to reflect a real consensus rather than just descend into "Troper X and his friends liked this season the least" which could be true of absolutely anything.

shadowgirl_13_chaos: I think everyone agrees that after season 4, Spongebob Squarepants just started going down hill from there, but I just want to confirm if I could ad it or not, I don't wanna start any Flames.