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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

This was merged with Papa Wolf. Here is the relevant discussion.

From YKTTW

Ununnilium: I honestly don't see what the first two examples have to do with anything.

Dark Sasami: I didn't want to be the first to say it, but yeah.

Phartman: Oh well, third place gets a medal too: what do they have to do with the entry?

rrh: I removed these two:
  • One story in George Fyler Townsend's translation of Ęsop's Fables tells of a mother swallow who nested in a court of justice, where her seven hatchlings were devoured by a snake.
  • In the next story in the same book, "The Thief and His Mother", a woman encourages her son to steal things until he is caught stealing in adulthood.
Cool stories, but they don't fit.

Ross N: Do male examples fit here (as a subversion), or are they a separate trope? I am thinking of Tom Cruise's murder of Tim Robbins in War of the Worlds and also of Vader's attack on Palpatine in Return of the Jedi.

Lale: We have some male examples in Cute Bruiser, so I would put them here. But I don't think the Vader example counts anyway.

Space Jawa: Why not? if the Palpatine example isn't enough, what about his behavior in Shadows of the Empire?

Filby: I wouldn't say this trope can be misogynistic, which implies open hatred of women, so much as merely sexist, in this case making unfair assumptions based on gender.

Gemmifer: And I would argue that having a woman turn Badass in defense of her kids doesn't mean she can't do it for other reasons too.
  • Nentuaby: I don't think anybody would argue it means they can't; It's just that this trope is drastically overused such that it generally seems they don't.

Freezair For A Limited Time: Quote cruft ahoy! Cut these two and put them here; the other two work better, IMO.

"I'm like a bald eagle, Meg. Beautiful to look at, but mess with one of my chicks and I'll rip your f***kin' eyes out with my razor sharp talons!"
Lois Griffin, Family Guy

"What are the rest of you spineless mother%$@ers waiting for? I'm a goddamn baby-making, life-taking MACHINE!"

Clerval: Took this out because it's so flamebait-y. I'm really tempted to start picking myself, but I won't. But aside from anything else, honestly, it's not as if she even wrote the speech, (which quite rightly refrains from mentioning her daughter's situation, let alone comes out guns blazing in her defence) nor as if she had no other motivations to perform competently, and it all just has nothing to do with this trope.

  • Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. Apparently, spending a week of watching the mainstream media abandon all civility in using her her oldest daughter and her infant son with Down's Syndrome as political footballs, provided her with sufficient Unstoppable Rage to go on stage at the Republican National Convention and deliver the best speech of her life.

Chuckg: 'Flamebaity' in what way? Because it happens to mention a candidate for office that you're not voting for? Or that she was treated hideously by the media in the past week by attacks on her kids and that might have contributed something to her energy level? 'Flamebaity' would be if I'd tried to characterize the attacks as coming from the politician I'm not voting for - except that I was very careful to steer clear of that. I state the fact that far too much of the media acted like complete asses last week and don't go a step further than that in the entry. As far as your 'she didn't write her own speech' non sequitur... seriously, how does this even relate? A politician not writing their own speech? This is news? The last candidate who wrote their own speeches was, as far as I know, Abraham Lincoln. The entry wasn't about how she wrote a speech, but about how well and how passionately she delivered one. Putting the entry back in.

Clerval I'm not American, I cannot vote for either. Her not writing the speech is relevant, because this trope is about someone, motivated by the need to save his/her children - doing something they would never otherwise do, normally killing or at least chasing off the attacker. Look at the other examples - we've got Ellen Ripley saving her quasi-daughter's life by blowing up aliens, Mrs Weasly managing to kill a far more powerful witch to stop her killing her child - and someone giving a speech? I don't see that events that merely "might have contributed something to [Palin's] energy levels" - and how do we know? - remotely qualify. Of course there's no reason she should have written her own speech but it does mean it's nowhere near the deeply personal act that this trope is meant to be about. She would have given the speech anyway. The speech is not about defending the children or seeing off controversy - which will, of course, continue. It does not say anything to the effect of "NOT MY DAUGHTER YOU BITCH." It was a speech which she had every professional and political motivation to deliver convincingly. Which is as it should be. I do not think it is doing her any favours to see her as needing to be fuelled by maternal instinct in order to do her job.

And it's flamebaity because using this page to idolise a candidate as such a paragon of motherhood is an invitation for other people to use it to question just how great and noble her treatment of her children really is. Which I am sure you do not want.

Ouroboros: Umm, why did Mama Bear and Papa Wolf get merged together? Fucking lumpers.

Agent Westmer: was there a discussion on lumping the articles that I missed? I would think that the the wolf/bear had sufficient merit to be independent articles.

Freezair For A Limited Time: It's on the forums. The only significant difference between the two was gender, so a merge happened.
Haven: Took out this quote, since it doesn't apply now that it's gender neutral.

"...For the female of the species is more deadly than the male."
The Female of the Species, according to Rudyard Kipling

Peteman: I think Papa Wolf should at least serve as a redirect. Never mind, since it is.

  • Someone remove the duplicate OOTS posting (Web Comics) about Varsuuvius and the Black Dragon. I would do it, but I feel that although to add a tidbit in would be fine anonymously, only a member (perhaps very active and trusted) should be one to remove a tidbit.

Mike Rosoft: As a point of interest, here's a quote from a discussion board about the Nanoha incident (presumedly the same as described on the main page):
well, to continue from my summary of nanoha's state as of ep 17, having made the cry of ultimate suffering, she will hunt down her enemies, and when she finds the ones responsible, she shall look them in the eye and shall say: