This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Necromas: I wish they made a "Teiberu Toppu Ge-mu Lagann"
Anonymous: That section heading is arguably this entire Wiki's Crowning Moment Of Funny. I'm glad I'd swallowed my drink of water before spotting it, or I would've choked to death.
Jack Butler: Could someone please explain why I am "considered harmful" when I point out the other Japanese-named tropes that cover subjects not necessarily tied down to anime?
ninjacrat: Rewiting an example into vague insults towards other tropes is unfortunate. Potholing it Take That! is double unfortunte. Doing so after swearing on Ask The Tropers that you were fair and impartial (and insulting somebody there as well)? Treble unfortunate.
Jack Butler: No. Sorry. You're removing anything I write, period. You cover yourself by claiming you're "cleaning up after me", but you're erasing everything, not just the so-called "insults". And that's bullshit.
ninjcrat: I expect there is very little I could say to convice you I am not your enemy. But just to put in writing: I am not your enemy.
Jack Butler: I don't think you're my enemy. To tell you the truth, you're not important enough to me for me to think of you in those terms. You're being really annoying, but I'm not assuming that's your default setting either. I just think you're going overboard.
ninjacrat: You made some goofy-ass 'take thats' and I deleted them. The solution to your problem is for you to stop doing that.
Jack Butler: No, you see... here's the thing. You're deleting everything I've added to certain tropes, whether they could possible be considered "goofy-ass take-thats" or not. Amazingly enough, you're also arbitrarily deleting other people's contributions, again whether or not they are offensive or on point (and from what I can see, very little of it could be considered offensive, and almost all of it is on point). You need to admit that you're going around hedge-clipping entries you personally don't like.
ninjacrat: If you have specific complaints to make, then make then specifically and in Ask The Tropers, where the community can review them. If you are referring to the Suvival of the Fittest example that you just restored, bear in mind the the Sot F guys are a bit notorious for spamming up the wiki with plugs for themselves, and I'm a long way from the only guy with a 'kill on sight' attitude towards them.
Jack Butler: Oh, I see... so my commenting on the fact that anime fans tend to filter every possible trope through the lens of anime is out of line... but your automatically kill-filing everything that references Survival Of The Fittest, whether justified or not, is okay, is it? And no, it's not just that. Its the other things you arbitrarily remove from an entry for no explainable reason.
ninjacrat: Patience exhausted; final reply; condensed format:
- I am not you enemy.
- If you want to be my enemy then that's great, but don't expect me to humour you.
- If you have issues with me, take it up in Ask The Tropers.
- Yes, taking potshots at other tropes is bad. Don't do it again.
Rebochan: I reverted you again because you keep taking a perfectly neutral piece of text that is informative about the terms and turning it into a slam against anime fans. I don't care what your issues are with ninjacrat or anime fans, but seriously, get over yourself.
Jack Butler: Yeah, I'm sure. Must be me. Because whose troper name is in and of itself Gratuitous Japanese has absolutely no motive for otherwise removing innocuous comments, do you.
Rebochan: You're the one that keeps trying to be as insulting as possible. Funny thing is, I wouldn't have bothered with this if you hadn't come whining into Ask The Tropers about how you being "persecuted".
Jisu: I mean no disrespect to either fansubber, at least on this issue. (For leaving Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch as the fansub equivalent of a Dead Fic and for not looking up correct character names, though, I do; sorry, Lunar.)
Shay Guy: Doesn't a.f.k. refer to a group? "She" doesn't make that much sense in the context given, unless you're talking about the individual responsible for the scripts...whoever that is. If so, it should name or at least indicate her so the antecedent is correct.
dkellis: Technically Strato does the translation, timing, typesetting, and encoding for a.f.k. As far as I know, all that's left for a fansub is Quality Control and Distribution. Also, I have no clue of Strato is male or female. I assumed male, based on no evidence whatsoever.
Jisu: Corrected the "bow" example, because apparently I didn't make it clear enough and someone thought I was talking about bou, the pole arm, instead of bow, the weapon that shoots projectiles.
Prfnoff: Moving a Haruhi example to Keep It Foreign. And does this trope cover using Japanese phrases in works that weren't in Japanese to begin with?
Shale: Does anyone with a media uploader account have access to an archive of the old Life of Riley webcomic? I've got it into my head that the "You're NOT JAPANESE!" Running Gag would work perfectly as a page image, but sadly I have neither comic nor uploader permission.
Vampire Buddha: Removed these on account of being irrelevant:
- This is because Marth and Roy's games (FE 1 and FE 6, respectively) have only been released in Japan, although fan translations are abound and there's rumours of FE 1 being rereleased for DS.
** This Troper hasn't seen Lucky Star, but found himself frustrated with the dub and sub of Suzumiya Haruhi, which used "Miss Suzumiya" as a clear stand in for "Suzumiya-san", which sounds incredibly awkward.*** Using "Miss" or "Mister" as a stand in for "san" is fairly standard in anime dubs.*** Of course, the perceived awkwardness of both can vary from person to person, depending on whether the viewer has or hasn't seen the Japanese version.
Man Called True: Whoever made that comment about Harper Lee, I tried to clean up the section a little, but keep your sarcasm to yourself, friend.
Nornagest:
- TV Tome Adventures does this, since all the characters are otaku. Particularly egregious is "Kalasu Angel", a name the creator (initially) thought meant "Angel of Death" but actually meant "Angel of the Crow".
Funny, that's actually more evocative. By quite a bit.
Kizor: A lot of people have complained (in the article, grr) about people who use Japanese like real Japan was full of doe-eyed schoolgirls in fukus, so you might find this useful: I have it on good authority that "ore wa dekkai, kedarake no otoko nanda" means "I am a huge, hairy man."
Austin: Removed several examples that should go in Troper Tales.
- Truth in Television - This troper knew a whole group of girls that did this. At first it was, like, cool, you guys like anime, too but it quickly got annoying, especially since all of them thought it was so clever that they could do this. After a month of this, I just left and started eating lunch with the good ol' boys (not my words); surprisingly, this was an improvement.
- Ah yes, there's a group of people at my school that do this as well. It got annoying fast, particularlly when they didn't know what they were saying and pronounced everything wrong. That and, they know nothing about Japan outside anime.
- Go to an anime convention, any anime convention, and you are bound to run into people who do this.
- One of the people this troper happens to hang around at school only goes by "Oni" and randomly adds japanese to his speaking, often making otherwise sensible statements incomprehensible.
- Truth in Television here — this troper is guilty of using several such phrases in Real Life, most recently picking up "mendokuse" ("troublesome") from Naruto's Shikamaru. He defends the rest of them as being picked up when he actually went to Japan.
- Tsundere is actually beginning to enter this troper's vocabulary. Since stealing from other languages is pretty much the entire basis of English, I figure it's fair.
Nebula: I think we should have a Troper Tales article for this, since I've seen Troper Tales articles with fewer. I've got one myself, for whoever decides to launch it:
- This troper's Japanese tutor managed a variation of this (Japanese tutor in both senses of the phrase - she's a tutor of the Japanese language, as well as a tutor from Japan). We were learning how to talk about family members, so one of the other students gave an example: "Watashi no otouto no namae wa Christopher desu". (My little brother's name is Christopher.) The tutor wasn't sure how to spell "Christopher", so she wrote it in katakana, having wrote the rest of the sentence in romaji. Justified, since this troper would imagine that a name such as Christopher would be difficult to spell using a writing system different to the ones you've used since you first learned to write in the first place.
Vampire Buddha: Removed this: [[>* This troper remembers watching a fansub of one Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei episode only to crack up at noticing they translated doujinshi (which is a loanword no less) into self-made publications. From that moment I switched to a different group to watch with and I've been fine ever since.
- On the other hand, this troper found that said change removed the secondary implications the word "doujinshi" carries in the States, causing the associated misunderstanding to make more sense.
- Interestingly, the same sub group (a.f.k) left doujinshi untranslated in an earlier episode.
- They probably used the English term in order to make the viewer understand how different Itoshiki's understanding of the concept is from the modern.
First of all, this trope is about using Japanese words when there are perfectly good vernacular equivalents, whereas the example described the exact opposite. Also, whoever wrote that doesn't seem to grasp that the point of subtitles is to translate, not transliterate.
Main Man J: Not to mention that switching over to a different subtitle group over a single term is incredibly picky.
Doktor von Eurotrash: I removed the "sic" after "Yukie" in the Vampire The Masquerade entry. From what a Japanese-speaking friend tells me, Yuki and Yukie are both correct Japanese names (Yuki means "snow", Yukie means "gift of the snow").
Antheia: The discussion on the word kawaii is interesting, but doesn't belong on the main page. Moving it here:
(First post is about the overuse of the word "kawaii", including cases where it doesn't even make sense in context.)
- Some of those are probably explained by a conflation with 'kowai', meaning scary or disturbing.
- There's also the word "kimokawaii" (from "kimochi warui" = "disgusting" and kawaii) for Ugly Cute.
- For the record, "desu" means nothing more than "is", "are" or "be". The Japanese don't use it every time we would use those words, though, since they think it's obvious and pointless.
- There are a number of reasons this is the case; it's partly because informal speech tends towards shorter sentences (the topic and verb are often left out if they're inferred from context), partly because verbal adjectives count as verbs on their own and don't require an explicit one (hence the name verbal adjectives), but mostly because very few sentences of spoken Japanese actually use "desu." Japanese speakers generally use other verbs, for the same reason we say in English "The pie smells good" and not "The odor of the pie is favorable."
- Blame Suiseiseki for that, desu~
