This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
From YKTTW:
Ununnilium: Is there an entry for the thing where an adaptation produces a new character that becomes so popular they add it into the original canon? Off the top of my head, I can only think of a couple comic-book-to-TV examples: BTAS 's Harley Quinn, and X-Men Evolution's X-23.
Dark Sasami: My roommate, who is even geekier than I am, says that the Holodeck originated in non-canon Trek (apparently either the Log books or the cartoon, which according to him is not considered by Paramount to exist). I know that's not a character, but hey.
Ununnilium: Okay, I'm making this under Canon Immigrant.
Seven Seals: Removed a duplicate entry for Firestar.
Paul A: Removed this:
- The psychic paper in the new series of Doctor Who was first seen in the Expanded Universe novel "World Game".
because the psychic paper's first on-screen appearance was most of a year before World Game was published.
Ununnilium: Ahhhhh. Okay; I've never actually read the book, and was just reading about various Fourth Doctor stuff, and seem to have gotten confused.
HeartBurn Kid: I'm wondering if the Japanese wrestlers Tiger Mask and Jyushin Liger would count here. The characters were taken from a manga and an anime, respectively, and are apparently officially licensed...
Paul A: If it was an anime and manga based on the Japanese wrestling league, and then the characters showed up as wrestlers in the real-life league, definitely yes. If it was an anime and manga about something unrelated, then I don't think that's what the trope is about.
HeartBurn Kid: Well, that disqualifies Liger then, but Tiger Mask was from a Manga about wrestling (though I don't think it was about New Japan Pro Wrestling specifically). So related, but not an official adaptation.
Seth: Its a borderline case, i would include it just because its special interest.
Boobah: Is King from Tekken a Shout-Out to Tiger Mask? Or is it a coincidence?
HeartBurn Kid: I've always heard that King was meant to be a combination of Tiger Mask and Mexican wrestler Fray Tormenta (who was the guy that Nacho Libre was, very loosely, based on as well)
Andrusi: Can you have non-canon Canon Immigrants? The Freedom Fighters, invented for the Sonic The Hedgehog comic book and one of the cartoons, found their way into Sonic Spinball.
Jordan: How about instances where something in a movie or other media influences how a novel/concept is thought of- like Sherlock Holmes' deerstalker hat, or the character of Igor in the Frankenstein story.
Ununnilium: Andrusi, how is that non-canon? Jordan, I could swear we had a separate trope for that. Hmmmmmm. Ret-Canon, maybe?
Seven Seals: It's funny, because I had the same feeling. It turns out that these things are only mentioned separately on Sherlock Holmes and Frankenstein's Monster, respectively (Igor himself is of course covered in The Igor).
I think Ret-Canon has the wrong vibe. It's not exactly that these things have become canon — Sherlock Holmes has a canon, and the deerstalker cap isn't part of it. But the public image of him certainly includes it — and it's not The Theme Park Version either. Ditto with the hugely influential movie giving Frankenstein (and the whole generation of mad scientists that came after him) The Igor. These things aren't canonical, but they aren't exactly Fanon either, since even non-fans will "know" these things to be true. Public Fanon? Public Image? Common Knowledge? Laymans Canon?
Seven Seals: Never mind, I seem to have somehow missed that Ret-Canon already exists. While it doesn't exactly cover the Sherlock Holmes and Frankenstein example (because the canon of those is finished, while Ret-Canon emphasizes changes to the canon of continuing stories), it's probably wiser to include it there.
Paul A: I think Lost in Imitation is the place for these.
Andrusi: Huh, I should have checked back sooner. The context of the characters' appearance in Sonic Spinball was in on of the game's bonus stages, all of which are presented as "real" pinball machines (as opposed to the main game, which has Sonic breaking in past a security system that simply resembles a series of pinball machines) and none of which actually fit into the plot in any way. And it's unclear whether Spinball itself is canon anyway.
Daibhid C: Might Kryptonite count? Originally created for for the comics (as K-Metal), but never actually appeared until after it had been introduced in the radio series. I think the radio series was also where Jimmy Olsen got his name, although there was a kid in a bow-tie hanging round the Planet before that.
Ununnilium: Hmmmmmmm. Possibly.
- A bizarre case of the fan-verse impacting the Star Wars Extended Universe is Mara Jade, who first showed up in a fanfilm and was liked so much she was written into the extended universe. She hasn't (yet) made it into the film continuity, though.
- Incorrect—Mara Jade was created by Timothy Zahn for the Thrawn Trilogy novels, which are official EU.
If something's wrong, take it out.
Later:
- Personally, I WANT to put the various Mario Spin-Off games in this, which pulls references and characters from not only the Mario Series, but the Yoshi and Donkey Kong series as well. Somehow, Wario Ware alone remains unmentioned. It's really weird seeing Luigi, Baby Mario, and Funky Kong race against each other.
...how does that at all count as this? O.o They're different games, yes, but they're in the same medium and seem to occupy the same universe. Also, "I want" is way too personal a phrase.
Tanto: Besides, the Yoshi and DK series are spin offs of the Mario series, not this. Yoshi and DK didn't start getting their own games and own universes until after they'd been firmly established in Mario games.
- This is also the first game to have a Luigi that looked and played differently than Mario.
- Unless you count the Japanese SMB 2, in which Luigi remained a palette swap of Mario but gained the slippery, floaty qualities that'd stick with him until the present day.
- This is also the first game to have a Luigi that looked and played differently than Mario.
Not an example, then.
- Similiar to Super Mario Bros 2, the Star Fox series has adopted several elements from the dolled up Star Fox Adventures, which originally had nothing to do with the series. Most notably the vixen Krystal, who joined the team, while the central planet of the game, Sauria, is used as a level in Assault (and a cutscene shows Tricky, Fox dinosaur sidekick of the previous game, grown up between the games).
Trogga: Yes, but unlike Doki Doki Panic, Dinosaur Planet was never released.
Daibhid C:
- ITV drama series Footballers' Wives briefly exported popular character Tanya Turner to Bad Girls (also produced by ITV) when Tanya was jailed during the plot.
- There's a bit of mutual Canon Immigration going on between the Dead Or Alive series and the new Ninja Gaiden. Ryu Hayabusa, from the original Ninja Gaiden series (NES, late '80s and early '90s), is a major character in Dead Or Alive. Ayane, one of the central Dead Or Alive females, shows up in Ryu's game as his Ninja Butterfly.
Jack-of-Some-Trades: Removing this because Wendy and Marvin are not the Wonder Twins.
- Also before the Teen Titans appearance, Young Justice featured (for two issues) a pair of Wonder Twins (not named as such); they were much closer to the originals than the Titans ones.
Removed:
- Try to find a modern representation of Santa Claus (other than an origin story) that doesn't at least make a reference to Rudolph, if not including him outright. I dare you.
- Ahem. Exhibit A: The Santa Clause.
- For that matter, try to find a modern representation of Santa Claus that doesn't have him in red and white — itself a colour scheme popularized from a wildly successful Coca-Cola ad campaign. Although, it's worth noting that, contrary to Urban Legend, it wasn't the sole contributor to this. It was already the most common color scheme for Santa Claus by that point; the Coca-Cola ad campaign just pushed it over the top into being the only one anyone imagined him in.
- On the other hand, Montgomery Ward was the sole contribution to Rudolph.
- The fact that he has a sleigh pulled with flying reindeer at all is a Canon Immigrant from A Visit from St. Nicholas.
- This Troper, however, would love to know exactly when and where it was decided that said sleigh and reindeer should be normal-sized, rather than "miniature" and "tiny" (respectively) as in Moore's poem?
- Probably because this doesn't work as a visual at all unless Santa himself is miniature-sized, which seems to have been the original implication of Moore's poem (calling him an "elf") but has been dropped thanks to human models, actors, and department-store stand-ins all being human-sized. Yes, this means that modern representations of Santa Claus have to deal with the Fridge Logic question of how a normal-sized obese adult male fits through a chimney.
- It's surely debatable whether the Santa Claus story has anything that could strictly be called a Canon.
As that last note is a good point. These are all examples of mythos building, not canon immigration.
Eno: Removing the following entry:-
- Surprisingly used with a specific badass weapon, too. In Batman Begins, Bats has a sonic emitter that summons a horde of bats fromsomewhere. This was next used in Batman: Year One. In the original series finale of Justice League, producer Dwayne Mc Duffie admits he happily stole the same trick. It turns out, the first use of all this was in Batman Returns.
Mostly because it's blatantly untrue; Year One outdates Batman Returns by several years. I'll admit I can maybe understand that mistake, but someone really didn't do a whole lot of research if they honestly thought Batman Begins came before Year One did. Nice example of Older Than They Think, there.
BritBllt: Nuking this bit of Conversation In The Main Page...
- What on Earth are you talking about?? Frank Gorshin did wear a leotard![1]
And his alternate suit was not used in the comics after the series aired, they stuck with the leotard for years. It was Batman: The Animated Series where the suit first became popular and caused the jump. Please note, this happened almost 30 years after Frank Gorshin.
- What on Earth are you talking about?? Frank Gorshin did wear a leotard![1]
One, it's Conversation In The Main Page. If something's wrong, then fix it. Bonus points to this one for the severely overused, snarky Did Not Do The Research pothole. And two, the above point isn't even wrong. Frank Gorshin's portrayal DID invent the bowler hat and jacket look, although he wore the leotard a few times (and presumably he hated it enough to ask for an alternate costume). If you want to say the Animated Series made it "popular", so be it, but it's the television series that invented the look. Give credit where credit's due.
