This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Forlong: I thought this page could use a pic, and I found a pic of Batman with a lightsaber! How Badass is that? Anyone disagree with me putting that pic up?
Peteman: I think that works better with Badass Abnormal. Badass Normal should be an unaltered Batman, likely from Justice League Unlimited or some other animated/comic continuity, where he's actually side by side with superpowered people. I just put it there.
Looney Toons: Kaname Chidori from Full Metal Panic isn't exactly a normal — she's one of the Whispered, although she doesn't really have much access to the racial memory thing that makes the Whispered what they are.
Andyzero: I considered that. But she never uses them to DO anything. They're more a MacGuffin for heroes and villains to be interested in her. In fact, it barely comes up in the the second season (Second Raid) at all. What makes Kaname Kaname is...er...Kanami.
xwingace:I agree with Looney Toons, though. It could be argued that he Whispered status is what gives her the ability to deal with all this.
On another series, would Kamiya Kaoru from Rurouni Kenshin fit here?
Wolviepris: The Kenshin page seems to refer to Sanosuke as the badass normal. In my opinion, it's a tricky one because both start as badass normals but over time Kaoru stops being badass and Sano stops being normal.
Desertopa: None of them count, since there are no supernatural characters in the setting for comparison. All the characters are simply more or less Badass. Sanosuke, and to a lesser extent Kaoru, are examples of The Krillin.
Some Sort Of Troper: Took out Kaname Chidori a) yes she does have abilities that others don't and b) the others are normals, there's no "super" levels for her to compare to.
Ununnilium: The problem with Kiyone is, she's not exactly Bad Ass.
Ultimatum479: I deleted Solid Snake, since he's hardly normal; he's genetically engineered.
Would Tiana of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Strikers count? Considering she's in a strike force comprised of Aces, Wolkenritters, Artificial Mages, Cyborgs, and a Summoner, she's pretty downright normal in the context of her world.
Some Sort Of Troper: No, characters who are powered and supered up but just not as much as others in the world are The Krillin. Besides she does have her own particular special abilites, right?
Servbot: Thing is, in StrikerS and beyond, the average citizen is a mage. In fact, it's explicitly mentioned that the reason for her bitterness in Episode 7 (I knew it! The only normal person in the unit is me!) and the reason why the cyborgs have no qualms for killing her in the finale (You're not someone we're supposed to capture. No one will get mad if we kill you.) is because she's the normal one. She has no inherent abilities of her own. Both of her "special abilities" (guns and illusions) can be learned by anyone if they're dedicated enough (in fact, she taught herself the latter in her spare time when she was younger because she saw it as useful).
Koveras: Yeah, I've also always considered Teana a Badass Normal because her badassitude stems from careful observation, fast thinking, and lots and lots of training, not from inherent talents. In Nanoha setting, it's those inherent talents that count as superpowers, e.g. Nanoha's own ability to channel magical power equivalent of a battleship barrage, Hayate's bond with the Book of Darkness, Subaru's being a combat cyborg, Erio's talent for lightning manipulation, etc. Teana has nothing of that, so any other mage could've taken her place in Riot Force 6, yet she made it and could keep it up with the rest.
In the Lord of the Rings badass normals, the biggest badass is Faramir because he's the only one in the whole series (besides an abnormal whose name I can't remember) who isn't tempted by the ring. The others fight to resist when Frodo inevitably tries to pawn the ring off on them. Even Frodo in the end can't resist the allure of the ring. Only Faramir is pure enough that the ring holds no power over him.
I don't see either Frodo nor Faramir as Badass Normal. Both are way to introspective, sensible and motivated by responisbility to qualify as Badass. Also, Faramir lack distinctive 'Normal' quality. If there is a Lord of the Rings Badass Normal, I would say it's Sam.
Patsy: Can I point out that none of these guys would stand a chance against Gandalf, Galadriel or any of the few characters in LOTR who actually aren't 'normal'? I thought this trope was for a normal who is so badass that he is not at a disadvantage when leading or fighting characters with unnatural superpowers (Batman, Rock Lee, Ty Lee, Walter, etc.) Suggestions like Sokka, Xander, Usopp, and Samwise Gamgee would seem more like 'unpowered character who is nonetheless not useless'. Am I talking sense here?
- Link? How can Link count when he can use magic and fire beams from his sword?
- Yeah, I'm not sure he counts.
Surely Jack Bauer doesn't count. Does he ever face anyone who isn't normal?
Thief might be comparatively normal next to the other Light Warriors, but he IS an elf. He claims a natural racial superiority over the humans at every possible opportunity. Sure it's probably lies, but he's still not actually normal.
Question: I was thinking about the starship captains in Trek series: All of them (the main leads of each series- Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway) are badasses (some drastically more so than others), and most of them are normal, but Sisko was Touched by Vorlons, so does he count? For that matter, does Captain Sheridan of Bab5 count? Can you be Touched by Vorlons and still be a badass normal?
I'm not counting Archer from Enterprise, I hated that show, and all he was hardly a badass.
Man Without A Body: Removed the "Real Life" examples, because the very point of this trope is a character who retains their badassery even if the face of supernatural competition. Real Life doesn't have any of that.
Patsy: Ok, fairly extensive edits by me here...if you disagree with any of it, feel free to stick it back up.
Removed natter:
- Well, as skilled as main characters in that series tend to be. Advanced strategy seems to be the resort of cowardly villains - Yugi in particular favours the "I hit you with my monsters and you die" style of gameplay. Indeed, whenever they face an opponent whose gameplay is skilled and original, their usual response is "This game is called Duel Monsters - attack with your monsters already!"
- The first series, where monsters could be summoned straight to the field, was particularly egregious when it came to this. At at least one point, when Yugi played a monster he just drew, his friends praised him for his excellent grasp of the game.
And I'm pretty sure these ones are just normal badasses:
- Another two: Snake Plissken. (Escape From New York)
- Selena from 28 Days Later is a Badass Normal among Badass Normals. (Jim hits his high point on the badass scale right about the start of his Roaring Rampageof Revenge, plateaus, then drops back to normalcy when removed from immediate danger.) Selena is a CHEMIST. She's five foot eight and hardly of Amazonlike build. And she, being one out of the last two non-psychotically infected women in England after a month's worth of survival horror, armed with a machete, a handful of pills and sheer initiative, is well and truly badass.
- Jack Bauer in 24.
- How in the hell has no one yet mentioned Malcom Reynolds of Firefly? He survived the war, first off. Second, his actions in Serenity make him one of the most badass normal people ever.
...and these guys aren't 'normal'. Two are genetically modified super-soldiers, and one's DEATH, demoted or otherwise.
- You can't mention Badass Normal without Solid Snake. He (and his predecessor) have taken on giant nuclear battle tanks and super-powered psychopaths with nothing more than a radio help-line and whatever weapons they find on their mission.
- As has Raiden, as far from badass as he's generally considered.
- Thou shalt not demote DEATH from its anthropomorphic personification status. Seriously, any villain should have learned by now.
TMX: I have not played COD 4, but it's my understanding that it's a relatively realistic game, in which none of the characters have superpowers. So why is Captain Price listed? Elaborate or remove.
- Lan Mandragoran in the Wheel Of Time series is known by the Aiel as Aan'allein, Old Tongue for "A man who is an entire nation". It was stated that the Blight could not kill him, because in his youth he would frequently go to the Blight to fight Trollocs. During a fight, a member of the Black Ajah hits him with a large blast of air, and the end result is that he tackles her, freeing his wife.
He's a Warder. Deleted.
Mars Dragon: I'd argue that Elzam from Super Robot Wars is in no way a "normal". Sure, he pilots Huckebeins, but he always pilots the prototype versions, which isn't nearly as impressive as making an actual mass-produced mech shine. Remember, the prototype is always better. Plus he himself isn't normal; he and Rai are both natural geniuses at piloting. It's why they have the 'Genius' skill. And he's a Branstein and raised to go into the military and be awesome. These are both advantages that take him pretty far out of "normal".
And it's not like everything that's said about him doesn't also apply to Rai, sometimes more. Rai's stuck on a team specially made of psychics, on a mech that was originally made for psychics a lot more than the Huckebein prototypes, and is still the best pilot they have. Sure he's piloting a custom mech, but it's a custom mech that doesn't really fit him. He has the lowest defence and highest evade out of anyone on the SRX team and the R-2 is basically a tank. He still makes it dodge. But he still doesn't count as a Badass Normal for the same reason Elzam doesn't. Natural genius, raised to pilot well.
In short, Kai and maybe Katina and Russel (if they count as 'badasses') are all way way more normal than pretty much the entire rest of the cast.
Uknown Troper: Can somebody tell me what the frak Zaraki Kenpachi is doing on this list? He's about as badass normal as Ichigo, what with his humongous reiatsu. He's more of an example of When All You Have Is a Hammer….
Some Sort Of Troper: Starting a clear up here. At the moment i have deleted the protegonist from Call Of Duty, Gordon Freeman and Colonel Jack On'Neil from SG-1. The first is a normal, surrounded by normals, fighting normals, there are super- or higher tiers to compare against. Similar idea with the next two, they fight against some pretty weird and powerful stuff but so do other normals and there is nothing to set the idea that what they do transcends the capabilities of normal men. Jack's being compared to his own team, who are all either just slightly smarter (in their own field) or slightly stronger and part of the point is they work as a team, for cryin' out loud. They may be Bad Ass but not Bad Ass Normal.
Update: Deleted some more, especially those who are "only" very effectively armed, are naturally more skilled than everyone else, and receive help and teamwork.
Austin: Yeah. I'm cutting Bruce Lee. He has a big reputation, but there's no evidence that he was one of the most strong and fit people ever. Look at this link and do ctrl f "underweight", for some reference. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread160834/pg2
His own doctor disagreed, but that's not an issue. Real people can't be Badass Normal by definition, there being no supernatural abnormals for comparison.
Bink should not be on this list. His power protects him from all supernatural threats (albeit in a really indirect way). He can only really be harmed by a human using mundane means (which in Xanth, is pretty damn rare).
Anicomicgeek: I removed Birdy from Birdy the Mighty as she's not mormal; she's an alien with super-strength and agility, and some durability (enough to deflect bullets).
KJMackley: I did an overhaul of the page, I thought someone else was going to do it from a YKTTW a few weeks ago. Examples would label people who were normal doing impressive things despite the lack of superheroes or magic. If we take Batman as the quintessential Badass Normal, then this is supposed to be a person who remains a relevent badass despite being at a superpowered disadvantage. So I made it clear in the description that the Badass Normal doesn't happen if:
- The character does not have a Super Prototype or top-of-the-line tech because then we are talking about the equipment, not the person. If they had those things, wouldn't they be considered superpowered? Examples of people in a Gundam series without newtypes and say that they did pretty well for being in a normal mobile suit. Considering how rare the Super Prototype mobile suits are, then they are just an Ace Pilot.
- There is a single or a small group of artificially or magically enhanced people (like a Super-Soldier) who are killed by the person, because there isn't much "superpowered" stuff to compare them to. If Super-Soldier enhancements are as widespread as sodapop, then it may fit.
- They are facing creatures that are not human but don't inherently have superpowers or magic, meaning we are invoking Puny Earthlings. For example, in Lord Of The Rings the average human soldier can kill an orc. Some humans are better at it then others. The magical creatures are limited to the wizards, the Ring Wraiths and Sauron. For that, see number 2.
- The person is Badass but not normal. Captain America is not normal, just not as powerful as the Hulk or Thor.
- The person is normal but not Badass. Xander of Buffy The Vampire Slayer had very rare moments of usefulness in combat, but usually he was just giving moral support and fixing broken windows.
St Fan: I'm removing Cobra (from Cobra Space Adventure), as he's anything but normal. It is obvious through the series that he has enormous psychic and psychometabolic abilities. It is even straight out pointed out in the show that he is "far from an ordinary human".
- Captain Cobra, one of the most badass space pirates in history, is completely normal human being if you count out his Roboteching Arm Cannon.
Peteman: removed:
- Bink, and his son, Dor from the Xanth series. Although both sport Magician-class talents, neither does any good in any sort of physical battle (Bink can't be hurt by magic, Dor can make inanimate objects speak), yet both have been known to more than hold their own against much more experienced fighters in combat.
- This editor hasn't read the series but he would imagine that the ability to make your opponent's sword talk would give him the startle of a lifetime (the biggest and the last, hopefully).
- Nah, people are used to stuff like that in Xanth. What it's really good for is blackmail, but of course, being an Anthony hero, Dor is way to honorable to consider that.
- In Bink's case a character (Trent) has speculated that Bink was destined for badassery and herodom, as Bink's talent isn't just some anti-magic field; it's semi-sentient and contains elements of The Chessmaster and Omniscient Morality License, just so that not even the fact of its existence can harm him, however it feels like defining the word "harm"... it's apparently "persuaded" him throughout his life (for most of which he wasn't aware he had any magic talent) to develop physically, mentally, and in survival skills so that he wouldn't rely on his talent and be therefore weakened, and so that he could be protected from hostile magic through slightly augmenting his badassery rather than overt intervention (which could cause an opponent to suspect his talent's existence and adapt to it (meaning his talent, which is magic, would be hurting him... like I said, The Chessmaster). There's evidence to indicate it's tweaked first encounters to ensure Bink would have The Power of Friendship later on, so even his being a nice guy and hero...
- This editor hasn't read the series but he would imagine that the ability to make your opponent's sword talk would give him the startle of a lifetime (the biggest and the last, hopefully).
Bink's Talent is way too powerful for a guy who lives in a supernatural land.
Peteman: Sherlock Holmes is not a Bad Ass Normal due not living in a fantastical setting.
- Sherlock Holmes may be considered the original Badass Normal. He speaks at least three languages, has excessive proficiency in several branches of science, is an accomplished dramatist, writes extensive monographs on various subjects, and outwits almost every adversary he ever faces. But he's also described as being an excellent boxer and fencer, can run considerable distances when necessary, and in one story is shown to be so physically strong that he straightens a bent iron fireplace poker with only a little effort.
Dangermike: Removed Gibbs of NCIS, as he's a normal among normals— the definition of BN is a normal who can mix it up on equal terms with superhuman or supernatural foes, and he's got neither. He is undeniably Bad Ass, but per the description on the main page, he's not a Badass Normal, if only because of lack of opportunity. Let them write some mutants or vampires into the show for him to out-badass and he'd qualify.
Xavius: Does Davros really count, seeing as he has been shown at at least one occasion to be able to hurl Palaptine-esque lightning from his fingers?
Peteman: cut:
- Heero Yuy of Gundam Wing, himself the inspiration for Sousuke Sagara and sometimes compared to Solid Snake. At age 15, he's probably one of the best soldiers in the world, with skills including exceptional strength, endurance and resilience, marksmanship, CQC, demolitions, and of course Humongous Mecha piloting, as seen in one episode where he single-handed faces down an army of the latest automated machines in the Leo, the equivalent of the aforementioned Zaku. His recurring teammate Trowa Barton, who's been a battlefield soldier since approximately age 4, also applies.
- And of course in Endless Waltz when Heero manages to hold his own against fellow Gundam pilot Wufei and his Gundam with a frikkin' Space Leo. Yes, he takes on a Gundam with a mech that explodes if it's hit by anything harder than a light rain and makes a damn good show of it. And yet he's only ever remembered for the suicide attempts.
- Gundam SEED has Mu La Flaga, who is able to fight mobile suits with his advanced but still inferior mobile armor. Even after he gets his own mobile suit, Mu still manages to fight and kill Coordinators, in spite of the fact that he's an unaltered Natural.
- Heero Yuy of Gundam Wing, himself the inspiration for Sousuke Sagara and sometimes compared to Solid Snake. At age 15, he's probably one of the best soldiers in the world, with skills including exceptional strength, endurance and resilience, marksmanship, CQC, demolitions, and of course Humongous Mecha piloting, as seen in one episode where he single-handed faces down an army of the latest automated machines in the Leo, the equivalent of the aforementioned Zaku. His recurring teammate Trowa Barton, who's been a battlefield soldier since approximately age 4, also applies.
As Heero's ability to survive a point blank nuclear explosion stretches the limits of what we'll be willing to accept as Normal, and his ability to use crappy mechs to defeat more powerful ones is in no way a measure of "Normal". Badass maybe, but not Badass Normal. Goddamn Zechs punked Heero in the first episode with a Space Leo. Mu, has that psychic Newtype thing going for him.
Some Sort Of Troper: Removed Giles and Xanderfrom the Buffy the vampire slayer examples. Giles messed about with some magic when he was young and got people hurt and killed, he also killed an ordinary man which is fairly common in real life, he never was able to act as a force that could compare with a slayer and when facing vampires like Angelus, got his arse kicked. Xander got one episode where he actually acted very much out of the group dynamic that he was normally in so it's not really representitive of his character. Most of the time, sure he may manage to not suck but he never compares on the level of the supers of his world - the slayers, demons and witchs- in the importance of his roles. He did save the world in season 6 but that wasn't by any talent of his, that was by being the person Willow cared about most in the world and the one who knew her best. He certainly couldn't apply that in a fight against kakistos. These sorts of character help by being the support of others and do not make Badass Normals.
Also took out the Doctor from the Doctor Who examples. Yes the others fit but his villains are on one side trying to defeat him and the Badass Normal ones can claim that because they can compare to the weird super leveled villains while on the hero side, the most super is the Doctor with his ancient technology, stunning levels of knowledge and ability to come back from the dead and all the others can apply be comparing with him so he can't qualify.
Oh and the Han Solo example. Firstly Two words obvious trope is silly because it's never obvious. What did Han Solo actually do against jedi and other "super" level beigs in his word? My second point is the answer to that question; he got totally pawned by them all. When he's up against characters who only have great piloting skills and blasters themselves then he excels and he's great and badass and we love him but put him against the supers of his world (which actually rarely happens) and they can just catch the blaster shot in their palm and then freeze him in carbonite.
In the world in which he inhabits, he doesn't actually pull himself out of the level of the other normal characters and start play around in the force using levels. Look at what he actually gets involved in and he doesn't even get the chance to be compared to the supers.
Here were some examples taken out because they were Brought Down to Normal plots (plus some I took out myself to be held here while we mull over them). The current line "Just to reiterate, if they have strange or superhuman abilities, and this isn't the arc where these powers have been excised, they are not normal." is recent so we should maybe discuss it.
Now i put my concerns about taking out these examples on the forums, to reinterate here more briefly since Brought Down to Normal is a plot and Badass Normal is characterisation, can we really say they are exclusive?
Could you not see these episodes as the writer saying "See, my character even without the powers is still heroic enough to function as a Badass Normal"? We must still insist that they are operative at effective "super" level- as far as I can tell the DCAU example has Superman doing only what any typical caveman could do, there aren't the typical justice league villains or other super members to compare him to, so discard him. On the other hand, Storm still manages to be effective part of the X-Men, so if you only saw her for that issue, you would think she was a badass normal.
- Uh... not an issue. 80 issues, spanning close to seven years of real-world time. Since the Brought Down to Normal trope specifies that the character regains their powers at the end of the episode, it hardly seems to fit. Seriously, she was the leader of the X-Men for more than three years, solely on her skills as a thief, leader and hand-to-hand fighter.
Some Sort Of Troper: Bit of a poor way to insert your text, I nearly didn't notice you there. I am inclined to agree with Storm, even it was just a single issue I'd still say that that was pretty impressive but the long running time shows that she wasn't just putting up a good defense for the time being or whatever, barely managing to keep up. Clearly shows her being a normal up to the standard of a super, I'm going to put her back in.
KJMackley: I clarified one of the rules regarding this trope (with accompanying clean-up), mostly being that the character in question needs to constantly be dealing with these super-powered beings. Just because superpowers exists in their universe doesn't mean they are a badass normal. Jim Gordon can be badass but how often does he deal with supervillains with superpowers? Likewise, Kou Uraki from Gundam0083 exists in a universe that has newtypes, but he doesn't confront a newtype himself. Same with Bernie from Gundam0080. And I cleaned up some other examples, either being merely competent (not badass) or talking about equipment like Gundam00.
—-
Peteman: took out:
- Watchmen is an inversion of the trope, considering that it centers around a number of superheroes, only one of whom (Dr. Manhattan) actually has powers. Still, Ozymandias is depicted as essentially the peak of physical and mental perfection, capable of catching a friggin' bullet in mid-air and seeming particularly badass in his normality.
- Like most characters in Watchmen, Rorschach has no powers. However, he possesses exceptional skills in improvising weaponry, making use of hairspray, cooking oil, and electrical outlets to defeat his enemies. He also has immense willpower, able to withstand the sub-zero arctic temperature with only his costume as protection.
- Which just goes on to show that he's anything but normal, in this editor's opinion.
- Like most characters in Watchmen, Rorschach has no powers. However, he possesses exceptional skills in improvising weaponry, making use of hairspray, cooking oil, and electrical outlets to defeat his enemies. He also has immense willpower, able to withstand the sub-zero arctic temperature with only his costume as protection.
Trogga: It says it's an inversion.
The Nifty: Cut this:
- From my A-Kon campaign: Darren Quinn as played by a player going by Constantine, one of two non-powered pre-generated characters I made (and the other was a mad scientist so could barely count. You know you have a Badass Normal when, in a campaign that includes alien banshee-like invaders, a dragon girl, a self-cloning demon girl with religious faith strong enough to warp reality and probability, a giant, a vampire, a drider, a super-strong olympian type, an angel, a speedster, gates to other realities and a medusa working for the State department and the players all start singing, in chorus, "You ain't seen nothing like the mighty Quinn" about the FBI agent.
- One of his primary antagonists (taken out by the Demon Girl that was held captive by this guy in her backstory) is an aging religious serial killer about whom was said: "He just ignored a grenade!" in the low level version of the game.
Pretty obviously should be on a Troper Tales page.
Peteman: Do Wedge and Han routinely take on Force Users and other superhuman beings regularly and win, or do they just succeed against other creatures of comparable ability? Because the Fetts and the Mandalorians take on Force Users with varying degrees of success, but I don't recall Wedge and Han doing particularly well (Han cheap-shotted Darth Vader in a space craft, that's the most of what I remember with regard to either Han or Wedge succeeding against people with superpowers, though I have a paucity of EU material to work with)
- Joysweeper: One of the Star Wars Legacy authors would have us believe that Mandalorians easily and effortlessly beat Jedi, but we try to ignore her. In this case it's less that Wedge - I'm ignoring Han in this case - can outfly Force Sensitives, since the one time I recall that he and the Rogues did, they beat him using explosives and a Heroic Sacrifice. It's more that he never falters in going up against the kinds of things and odds that Jedi in comparable starfighters face, despite not having the Force, and he always gets through it.
Changed Han Solo from being "non-force-sensitive" to "non-jedi-trained". There is suggestion his luck is due to the Force.
Some Sort Of Troper: Wedge and Han don't take on Jedi or compete on their level. Hence why they were removed several times with discussion on this page making it clear why. Jango Fett fought Obi Wan Kenobi. Han Solo tried to get a shot off a Vader who just waved his hand and made it clear that in no way did they have a chance.
Peteman: Why'd they take out the Batman pic?
Some Sort Of Troper: Since it was replaced by Just A Face And A Caption, I'm going to say fanboyism. I'm going to put it back.
