This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
From YKTTW Working Title: Badass Army
witchdoctor: I just had to remove a comment that Israel was able to survive because God was on their side. I shouldn't have to tell you that comments like that are a Big "NO!". I'd like to just have a nice entry without sparking a holy war, alright?
Random troper: I was cool with it, but, yes, I do see how it would go there.
witchdoctor: So was I, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Janitor: Let's not do an edit war, okay? Especially over an image. It is too big and doesn't really illustrate the article. Out of the way on the right makes it easy to slide by and focus in on the article. If that compromise doesn't work, we can do well without it altogether.
witchdoctor: Explain to me how it doesn't illustrate the article? Did you manage to somehow miss the fact that the Space Marine's are the embodiment of this trope?
Janitor: The who? Don't put it in again, dude. Soemthing more iconic, or just let the text do the work.
witchdoctor: You didn't actually read the article, did you? So explain to me the part where you can actually determine whether the picture illustrates the trope?
GodotIsWaiting4U: Janitor, the Space Marines are from Warhammer 40k, and yes, they are absolutely iconic of this trope. An entire army of genetically enhanced 9-foot-tall super soldiers encased in 3-inch thick power armor carrying handheld grenade launchers as pistols and massive chainsaw-swords as close combat weapons. I'd say that's pretty badass. Furthermore, the picture is not obscure, as Warhammer 40k is one of the best-known miniature wargames in existence, and its RTS video game spinoff series Dawn Of War is considered one of the better game series in the RTS genre. About the only real objection to the pic is the size, and some easy photo editing can solve that issue.
Janitor: Okay, cool. I confess I am reacting to somebody calling my moving the picture to the right "stupid" ...
... and then having them later coming out all bratty ...
... and my having a general pissed-off going about how people seem to have some problem understanding that the articles are about the trope, not their fav example ...
... and my having a further pissed-off going about illustrations offered first (on the left, first impression) should illustrate the article, that is, make the article more apparent before reading ...
... has made me even bitchier than usual.
Game Guru GG: Look, Janitor. He thought you were a Wiki Vandal. From what he says in #tropers chat, he understands your position now, and feels sorry about it, so could you perhaps show some mercy to him or at least talk to him about it in the chat? He'd say it himself, but apparently he has been banned.
Of course, now he left the chat.
Janitor: Undid my bannination shit. Apologies all around. Feeling the pressures of doing my RL and going way asymptotic ...
witchdoctor: If it's alright with you I'm going to make the picture a bit smaller and make the WH 40 K example a bit more descriptive so that the relevance of the picture that was on there is a bit clearer. I'll make the changes put it up and we'll go from there.
Janitor: Here is some discussion removed from the article ...
- The Nazi Wehrmacht of World War Two, especially after they tore everyone in Europe a new one for a few years.
- Vetoed. They made some spectacular successes, particularly in the East, yes. But the fact remains that they took massive losses in most of their battles (hell, it is now thought likely that they took more casualties in their infamous 1940 offensives than they doled out, and it was only the surrendering Western Allied units that decided the issue). In addition, the Axis Italian and Vichy French armed forces were literally PACKED with these guys, where their performance was often dismal. Hell, by the end of the war, the Wehrmacht's own performance was falling off the face of the Earth, particularity in the West, with a few notable exceptions (Seelowe Hights in particular).
witchdoctor: Eliminated the part of the article regarding Israel due to the amount of controversy and edit war caused by it. Recorded here for posterity is the cut portion.
- The Israeli Defense Forces, all branches. They're a bit of a special case. Surrounded on all sides by hostile countries, they've managed to defeat their foes every single time. Once, they defeated a coalition of several enemy countries in six freakin' days. However certain factors mitigate their status as a pure Badass Army. They have the considerable advantage of sizeable logistical support from a number of nations, notably the U.S., Britain, France, and others. In fact U.S. aid roughly equates the entire military budget of Egypt. Consider they're one of the few countries with halfway working equipment and a competent military; while the countries they regularly attack barely have functional governments sometimes (Lebanon and Palestine come to mind). Thus they get criticized for an uncomfortable similarity to a boxer beating up a little kid who steps on their feet occasionally. Nevertheless for all the advantages, it would all be for naught, if their army wasn't staffed by extremely competent soldiers.
- The Israelis didn't always have that many advantages either and those they have now they obtained by wits and willpower. And similar "mitigations" could be ascribed to many a Badass Army mentioned here. I really don't think anyone wants this to sound like a claim that only gentiles get to have Badass Armies?
- So now it takes wits and willpower to have the U.S., Britain, and France fund your army? Israel is the most powerful nation in its direct region mostly because it has more firepower than the surrounding countries. When your neighbors are Palestine, which barely has a functioning army, and Lebanon, which is so politically volatile it sometimes seems to have two governments at once, the fact you've come out on top is not as incredible as it might otherwise have been.
- The US didn't always fund them except through private contributions, Britain certainly did not always do so, was once their enemy and actually organized their opponents armies originally and France only did so intermittently. In the '48 they were making bullets out of lipstick tubes. In the meantime Jordan, Egypt, and Syria do not have volatile governments, and do not have armies any more incompetent then most of the ones the Wehrmacht faced in the early part of the war. And Saudi Arabia, kind of you know, has lots of oil. And there are about a hundred million Moslems-the only reason they didn't have an overwhelming number of Reserves is because they weren't ready to pay the price. Now please don't go on about this. If you are a Westerner, it makes you sound ungenerous to others. And if you are an Arab it certainly doesn't give you much credit given historical circumstances.
- And like I said, most of the objections would apply to other armies mentioned here so it is absurd to single them out. They have done remarkably well and are generally respected by people from other Badass Armies
The Starship Maxima: Put back the Israel section. They legitimately belong on this list. And jason taylor was absolutely right. Whatever your political feeling on Israel the fact is that they regularly defeat their foes at almost clockwork intervals. And as he pointed out, EVERY Badass Army has some advantage that allows it to be Bad Ass, no military is just Bad Ass based on straight balls alone; thought that is a very necessary component.
I feel that the section got out of hand due to people feeling as if they have to apologize for Israel's military success. Nobody's saying the country is morally right all the time, or that their *** don't stink. But the fact is their army can whoop ass when needed.
witchdoctor: I'm not entirely convinced that the section on Israel absolutely needs to be in there. I'm of the opinion that the article would be better served by removing the Israel section so that we don't end up having an ongoing edit war until the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse come riding by and tell us to STFU and die already.
Random troper: @Witchdoctor - By that logic; none of the examples on the page "absolutely needs to be in there." Bottom line, we're discussins real life badass armies. Israel has one. The End.
dArhengel: Okay guys I don't want to start an edit war or flame war, but I don't think the 501 Legion of Stormtroopers aka Vaders Fist should be on this page, no mater how much they live up to their fearsome reputation in the video games, for several reason:
- a) no matter how good they appear in the games they won't erase the lousy reputation that they build up through their portrayal in the movies. And I know what you're gonna say, they totally kicked ass in the beginning of Empire Strikes Back. Did they? I mean let's examine the battle. On one side we have a rag-tag military force, without heavy fire-power, mostly infantry, with improvised air speeders as main hitting power, and with all space craft in maintenance. On the other side we have a highly trained, highly mechanized force, with the best weapons available, uncontested orbital support from a FLEET of the most powerful warships, and probably outnumbering the enemy 3 to one (standard imperial doctrine in one of the games, if I remember, never attack unless you have at least 3 to 1 numerical advantage.). What's the result of this battle? Well it's a complete failure for the Stormtroopers. Yes they destroy Echo base and all the speeders and kill some rebels, but they fail to capture the Alliance leadership, they fail to hinder the evacuation of the base,and they lose two walkers, a single one of them probably more expensive then every thing they managed to destroy. If you think that I'm talking stupid, watch the faces of the rebel pilots as Luke makes it back to his X-wing and starts the lift of. They are fucking happy? Why is that? Because they know they won. The dialog between Luke and Wedge or who the hell salutes him as he takes off goes something like: great job, see you at the randez-vous point. And they're still on the fucking planet, surrounded by stormtroopers. The thought that they can get captured or killed never even passes their brains.
- b) Let's examine how the 501 got it's fearsome reputation. First they killed droids for a couple of years, the majority of witch were the ones witch in Ep.1 where shown to be even more incompetent then the Stormtroopers. Second they massacred some Jedi in the Jedi Temple, which where totally outnumbered and most of which where children.Then for about 20 years they terrorized peaceful populations, because the same video games tell us that the Rebellion started organizing just about 2 years before Yavin. So for about 18 years before, the 501st didn't have anybody to fight but civilians that disagreed with the Emperors high tax policy or some shit.
So tell me people what's so badass about this guys. They are basically glorified salvage yard workers for the first couple of years of their existence, and school yard bullies for the next 18. They always fight with numerical superiority on their side, they never engage a superior enemy, and whenever they fight a semi competent enemy they loose, badly. Tell me could your seriously put them on the same page with the Space Marines that fight 1 against 1000000 nids, or the Spartans from Three Hundred that fought 300 against a million, or the Spartan II's from Halo that where only 33 and produced more damage to their enemies, in a laid back afternoon, then the 501st did the whole Hexalogy(or is it sexalogy :P ).
witchdoctor: Can we please just decide whether this article is going to have a Real Life section or not? I don't care either way but I'd rather not have an edit war over it. Ok? Thanks.
Fast Eddie: It's decided. No real life examples.
The Starship Maxima: Decided by who?? And did these 'deciders' also decide to remove Real Life examples from every page, or is there some special infatuation with this page?
witchdoctor: OP here personally I don't give two hoots either way but I am leaning towards no real life examples due to the potential for a visit from the drama llama. Please just let it drop and can we move on?
The Starship Maxima: Now, see, I was trying to be reasonable by not unilaterally undoing FastEddie's edits. But it doesn't help that when someone asks for explanation to a reasonable question they get the equivalent of "Sit down and shut up." But....I'm hoping that by calmly asking for an explanation of why the section is removed here and nowhere else, that it will answered as calmly as I asked it.
Fast Eddie: We can do that. The section was collecting a great deal of nationalistic bombast, which brought natter. All to no purpose, as the trope is not about national armies, but about a representation in fiction. Whose country has the baddest army in real life has no importance for what we do here, which is the discussion of tropes in fiction.
The Starship Maxima: Thank you Fast Eddie for not blowing aside my question. Respectfully, I'd like to ask you to reconsider the edits based on the following:
- First, your contention that Real Life has no place on the page is a bit disingenuous seeing as to how both Real Life and Truth In Televisionn are accepted parts of nearly any trope page where they apply. The fact is that there are many factual example of combat groups that have performed with excellence by any measure that military success can be measured. Also the fact that you only see fit to remove it from one page and not all the others, while you say you're an administrator, further undermines the legitimacy of that argument.
- It seems to me that big contention is not actually the validity of having a Real Life section. It's the fact that some tropers get strong feelings about their particular nation; or stronger feelings about it's enemies; and feel the need to use the page as a forum for political discussion. This I understand. But I feel that it is wrong to "punish" a section because it is prone to having people overdo it. If we removed every section that attracted natter, we'd simply have to shut down the website. I'm uncomfortable that too many troper's answer to natter is to delete sections. I believe the answer is to simply regulate the natter. Or maybe, understand that the troper who disagrees with your contention has a valid point. For example, I myself rewrote the Isreal section several times based on the fact that some of the objections were understandable.
- TV Tropes is first and foremost a collaborative project. The people who are mature enough to work together and respect each other and the site should be allowed to work without being punished because a few folks get carried away. I can attest to the fact that several tropers edited and revised that sections and got rid of the bombast without resorting to erasing everyone's work.
In conclusion, I'd ask that you reconsider that section and allow it to stand. We are capable of maintaining it and keeping it from devolving into nationalistic chaos. Consider the very fact that the two of us are having a mature discussion on this, and no one is simply undoing your edits as a sign that it can be done.
Johnny E: Got to say I agree with not having a Real Life section, partly because the deliberately Up To Eleven nature of the trope is inherently unrealistic - that is, no real army is like this.
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'''I'm just stashing this here. If and when the discussion on Real Life gets straightened out, it can be added in. Actually here's a proposal. Fast Eddie, you and others who feel the natter is too much; how about we edit the section here and then put it back when all have been more or less satisfied that the nationalistic natter is removed.
- Erwin Rommel was a German in control of a single Panzer Division in the Second World War. They were nicknamed the "Ghost Division," because for long stints of the war no-one, not even the German high command, knew where they were. Under Rommel's command the division moved with unpredictable speed, to the point Rommel described his trips in a letter as a "Lightning Tour De France."
- Note that all the U.S.'s special operations forces from all four services are part of the unified Special Operations Command (SOCOM) - A Badass Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps. The Army's Green Berets, Rangers, and a dedicated Special Operations Aviation Regiment, the Navy's S.E.A.L.s and Special Boat Squadrons, the Air Force's Pararescue Jumpers and Special Operations Wings, and (recently) Marine Special Operations Companies. Forget debating who is the most badass, and just remember that when push comes to shove they all work on the same team.
- The Russian Spetznaz are big enough (about 10,000 strong) and bad enough to qualify. It doesn't hurt that they go through a Training from Hell where casualties during training are considered acceptable losses.
- The Nazi Schutzstaffel, anyone? They weren't the textbook example of the Praetorian Guard for nothing. Nor were they the most feared of the German Wehrmacht for nothing, either. Some of the SS were elite, namely the 1st div. Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler, 2nd div. Das Reich, and 3rd div. Totenkopf. However, the entirety of the Waffen SS was not elite, some weren't even as well trained and equipped as normal Heer units. As for other World War II German badass units, look to Panzergrenadier div. Großdeutschland and Panzer Lehr.
- The 332nd Fighter Group of the U.S. Army Air Corps. Better known as the Tuskegee Airmen. Forget the fact they were Black fighter pilots in a time when Blacks could barely get library cards. They racked up one of the most impressive aerial combat records of any group of fighter pilots in any war and they did it against the Luftwaffe, who were a pretty Badass Army themselves. Especially when one of them took out a jet fighter using a P-51 Mustang. Badass indeed.
- And according to the movie (with Laurence Fishburn) they didn't loose a single bomber that they were protecting, ever.
- The Spartans again; this is a case of Truth in Television. The Spartans were centered around their army, so you better believe their army was one of these. Otherwise, they weren't doing it right. Of course, after a few centuries of relying on their reputation (and stripping their fighter class ever downward in numbers due to their own standards of eugenics) while the forces aound them fought constantly, learned Spartan tactics, and actually got good, they suffered Badass Decay and were overcome.
- The Gurkhas. See for yourself!
- The British SAS and SBS. The first thing anyone is likely to mention about the entry exam is the fatality rate.
- The British soldiers stationed at Roarke's Drift during the Zulu War. 99 vs 4000. And the British won. Even leaving aside the fact the British had rifles and a volley discipline eminently suited to meeting charges by screaming, unarmoured Zulus, it was damn impressive. Interestingly, the commanding officer (albeit on seniority of four months) was a Badass Bookworm: Lt. John Chard, British Army Engineers. A large number of Victoria Crosses (Britain's highest honour for bravery) were awarded to individual soldiers at Roarke's Drift. The significance is as follows: there's only been 1,356 awards of the Cross since it was first created in 1856. In the entire fifty years since World War Two, it's been awarded only 13 times. There were 11 Victoria Crosses awarded at Roarke's Drift — the record for a single action.
- The Imperial Japanese Army of World War Two is one of the few armies in history to have fought "to the last man, the last bullet, the last inch of ground" on a regular basis. This was after conquering much of Asia with what are almost universally acknowledged as crappy weapons. Unfortunately tarnishing this image somewhat in Manchuria when whole detachments dropped their guns and ran away at the sight of approaching Russian airborne units.
- The relatively small Australian military similarly managed to hold out against vastly larger Japanese forces in the Second World War. And the North Vietnamese army, at the Battle of Long Tan. 108 versus 1,500, which the Australians won.
- Remember that little place that the Spartans occupied called Thermopylae? Well, in 1941, the Australian and New Zealand army did it again. It's true.
- On that note, the Papua New Guinean soldiers who fought with the Australians to resist the Japanese in WWII. Nicknamed the "fuzzy wuzzy angels", in a typically Australian display of affectionate racism.
- Current Australian SAS. They cross-train with the British (who are a Badass Army unto themselves) and have, in recent years:
- Made life very difficult for the warlords in East Timor.
- Participated in both Gulf Wars behind the lines, in quite unsung but significant endeavours
- Were en route to the Solomon Islands to deal with the warlords there. The warlords heard they were on the way. They surrendered.
- The Mongol Horde of Genghis Khan.
- Nelson's Royal Navy was pretty much a Badass Fleet.
- The Roman Legions. Remember those Spartans listed above? The Romans conquered them. And turned Sparta into a tourist theme park where rich Romans could go on vacation and watch Spartan babies being tossed onto rocks for not being tough enough infants.
- The Spartans had superb discipline; the Roman Legions, by the time they faced the Spartans, had not only discipline, but also flexiblity, superb officers who had learned to lead in the Punic Wars while fighting the greatest general of the age, and reserves. While the phalanx wore itself out on the first line of a legion, the legion had two more lines in reserve. Also, from Marius forward, Roman legions that weren't stationed in a fortress carried one on their backs! Each soldier, in addition to 150 odd pounds of gear and supplies, carried part of a fort with them. They'd stop marching an hour or so earlier than other armies would, so they could BUILD A FORT from scratch! Then, before dawn the next day, they'd take the fort apart and march hundreds of miles down the road with it. Not only did that let them be better on defense than any other mobile unit, but go ahead and arm wrestle someone who can carry that much stuff while marching for 6-8 hours at a time.
- The French Foreign Legion, as well as the French Army for most of post-Roman Empire history. Their current reputation stems from the fact that their army has lost the Franco-Prussian War and WWII, as well as their National Stereotypes. Of course, the French Army's failure to defend its own territory (justifiable or not) also marks the rise of La Résistance.
- Swiss mercenaries. For hundreds of years, Swiss mercenaries were considered the best soldiers of the western world. They fought in deep columns with long pikes and halberds that served well against infantry or cavalry. After a string of victories against Austria and Italy to establish their credentials, professional Swiss soldiers became a hot commodity throughout Europe. France at the time considered it impossible to wage a war without a strong contingent of Swiss pikemen in their center. The Vatican hired Swiss mercenaries so often that they eventually created the permanent Pontifical Swiss Guard, the only Vatican guard unit that remains today. The Swiss dressed in brightly colored uniforms to identify themselves and leverage their reputation on the battlefield. Though other nations eventually imitated their tactics, the Swiss held their elite reputation for about two centuries. If you like to know why only the Vatican Swiss remain, because it's a war crime to use Swiss Mercenaries
- No. It's not a war crime. it is prohibited by the current Swiss constitution however, with the sole exception being the Pontifical Guard.
- Ragtag bunch of Italian and French Immigrants and former slaves meet Crazy Awesome former school master who gives them red shirts. They spend the next 30 years screwing with dictatorship armies on two continents. And yes, It really did happen.
- The Filipino guerrillas led by Captain Juan Pajota in WW 2, who were instrumental in the Raid at Cabanatuan that rescued hundreds of American POWs. While the American Rangers they were helping took the Japanese POW camp, Pajota and his men held a choke point against Japanese reinforcements. Pajota and his men bore the full brunt of the Japanese counterattack and despite being heavily outnumbered they were able to hold their ground. One Filipino soldier trained in the use of a bazooka was even able to take out four Japanese tanks during the battle. The Japanese sustained 523 casualties total while the total casualties (killed and wounded) of the Filipino guerrillas and the American Rangers numbered under 30. As Cpt. Robert Prince of 6th Ranger Battalion, US Army put it:
- "The Guerrillas were our flanking protection at the Cabu River, which was no more than a mile from the camp... there was a sizable force of Japanese, but Pajota and his men just killed everything in sight that came up that river and across the bridge. They were the ones that kept this thing from being a tough deal for us."
- The Israeli Defense Forces, all branches. Surrounded on all sides by hostile countries, they've managed to defeat their foes every single time. Once, they defeated a coalition of several enemy countries in six freakin' days. For all the talk that they have numerous strategic and logistical advantages, fact is....what Badass Army doesn't?? They're generally considered some of the baddest ass soldiers in the world. Their pilots, doubly so.
- The Canadian Expeditionary Force of World War I. What was so badass about them? They took Vimy Ridge, a virtual fortress that the Germans successfully defended against both the British and the French forces, while inflicting severe casualties on them. The Canadians came along and straight up took back Vimy Ridge in roughly a week.
- Juno Beach on D-Day. The tactical situation was every bit as bad as the one faced by the Americans at Omaha. The Canadians smashed through the beach defenses in under an hour and were the only British force to actually reach their D-Day objective line inland. Joint Task Force 2. Canada's special forces unit has been everywhere, including various operations in Iraq, Haiti, and Afghanistan. More importantly though, they are known to be the only foreign unit allowed to join up with the Delta Force and Seal Team 6 in special operations in Afghanistan. And that's from what we know.
- Back in WWII, the Allies decided to create a Special Forces unit that could take out well defended German strategic targets with minimal men, maximum speed, and plausible deniability. So, they form up a battalion made up of half Americans and half Canadians, gave them custom-weapons, gave them training in the dead of the Montana winter, and sent them to fight. The Devil's Brigade kicked five kinds of Nazi ass in three short years. They also formed the basis for several post-WWII Special Forces outfits. Seriously, maybe it's time that Badass Canadian becomes a trope.
- The British army at the Battle of Balaclava: Their commanders had a major miscommunication, which led to the infamous Charge of the Light Brigade, where a bunch of guys on horse with swords charged through a valley filled with cannon fire from three sides, massacred the crew of one of the cannon groups, and charged back the same way they had come. This so impressed the military leaders that Balaclava is the only battle honor given for a strategic defeat in the history of the British army.
- There are a couple of Polish cavalry formations that make Light Brigade look like a band of amateurs. Even setting aside the famous Winged Hussars, there were the guys from Napoleon's Polish Chevaux-Légers of the Guard, who (not even the whole unit, just 125 men) ran into the Somosierra Pass and captured four batteries of cannons, causing the rout of Spanish militia of 8,000 people. Some claim that Bonaparte said "Leave it to the Poles, there's nothing impossible for them".
- The Mamluks were once a class of Islamic slave that were able to form powerful military units. So great were their abilities that they were actually granted more freedom (remember, they're slaves) than freeborn Egyptians. They went on to form the Mamluk Dynasty from 1250 to 1517.
- An 18-man US Army Intelligence and Reconnaisance platoon of the 394th Infantry Regiment, 99th Infantry Division managed to inflict somewhere around 400 - 500 German casualties during their defense near Lanzerath, Belgium. When what was left of the platoon was captured after they ran out of ammo, the German lieutenant in charge of the paratroopers that had captured the I&R Platoon demanded to know where the rest of the brigade was. Apparently, the platoon's defense was so fierce the Germans thought that it had to be at least a brigade-sized force that they had faced.
- The Sacred Band of Thebes. With them at the forefront, the Thebans -beat the Spartans-. Repeatedly. The unit was annihilated fighting to the last man when Phillip II of Macedon invaded Greece.
- The Caroleans, the army of Charles XII of Sweden. There weren't that many of them, so they compensated with strict discipline and very aggressive tactics; the musketeers were not allowed to shoot until they "could see the whites of the enemy's eyes".
- The United States Marines. From 1775 to now they still kick ass: In WW 1 while the French retreated the Germans push toward Paris in their last offensive of the war the newly arrived Marine Corps along with a small detachment of US Soldiers both fought and halted the Germans at a place called Belleau Wood. In WW 2 they fought the Japanese (Guadalcanal, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa to name a few) everywhere and nearly always won and remember they came in on the beaches no cover against manchine guns and won. Imagine D-Day for nearly every battle in the Pacific. Speaking of D-Day the USMC helped plan the Normandy Invasion. In Korea they conducted the first amphibious landing since WW 2 at a place called Inchong which was a decisive part of the Korean War, The Chinese on entering the war put a actual hit out on the First Marine Division 30,000 Marines and Soldiers and 900 Royal Marines fought 60,000 Crack Chinese in below 0 temperatures. They fought theyre way out carrying ALL the dead and wounded AND their equipment. In Vietnam they battled it out with the NVA and VC in the jungles including a battle Called Khe Sahn (6,000 Marines vs 30,000 NVA)where the Vietnamese tried to defeat them like they did 20 years before to French at Dien Bien Phu then after the Tet Offensive who cleared them out of Hue and other cities while killing all the VC who tried to smash their way into the US Embassy, yep the Marines, Who fought Hue without any air support until the very end of the battle, street by street, house by house, room by room, To today with Battles like Fallujah and right now in Helmand with the British. Semper Fucking Fi boys.
- As if that resumé wasn't impressive enough, they even tear up pirates. The Marine Hymn commences with the line "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli." The shores of Tripoli refers to one of the Marines' earliest campaigns against the Pirates of the Barbary Coast. Most other countries so feared the pirates they simply paid up ransoms and bribes to keep the pirates off their shipping. The United States basically said "Screw you" and sent the marines in. They wiped the pirates out.
- It's worse then that. Other countries often paid because they didn't want to spare force needed to fulfill their sordid ambitions rather then out of fear. After Waterloo when Europe was at peace, the British also decided that the Americans had a good idea and sent a fleet to encourage honest behavior in a rather Abrubt manner.
- The United States Coast Guard provided a lot of the small boat operators who landed the Marines for those WWII battles. The only Coast Guardsman to win the Congressional Medal of Honor did so pulling 400 or so Marines off a beach under heavy Japanese fire. Plus, on their days off (I.E. when they're not busy saving Marine's asses) they save everyone else's asses, regulate shipping, guard the US's coasts and do basically every other damn thing involving US littoral waters.
- Oh the Coast Guard is Badass! When no war is on they are at war with criminals . When they are not busy doing that they are saving lives. They don't get enough credit but they are very Badass
- Finland. One battle alone ended with Finnish forces fighting off the Soviet army, even though outnumbered more than 4:1. Final casualties: Finland, 1000 dead, 1000 wounded.
- The modern Greek army. They kicked the Italians asses so hard that they had to combune with the Germans
