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Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
03/10/2013 13:18:08 •••

Mixed feelings

I don't have any problems with gameplay. The plots are usually fine or at least have potential. The voice acting and music are good. I never felt much pity for the supposedly sympathetic antagonists like Sniper Wolf (except for The Boss, and even then I didn't regret killing her, because she wanted to die that way), or felt too bad about killing soldiers who would shoot me apparently without remorse themselves (save Johnny). I fundamentally disagree with the "killing in war is wrong, guys" philosophy in general (it doesn't help that it's generally treated as only wrong when Snake or Raiden does it), but I suppose that's me more than the game itself, and thus it isn't really fair to judge it on that basis.

I have a big problem with the series finales, whichever one you choose. It's either Metal Gear Solid 2 Sons Of Liberty (in which a coherent plot, continuity, and good characterization is thrown entirely out the window in favor of philosphical rhetoric and fourth wall breaking, which adversely affects all preceding games) or Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns Of The Patriots (in which Kojima throws a passive-aggressive tantrum and tries to put out a deliberately unsatisfying conclusion out of spite).

So while I do think the game series is quite intelligent (in spite of me disagreeing with the conclusions it draws), it has behind-the-scenes problems that prevent me from completely enjoying it.

TomWithNoNumbers Since: Dec, 2010
03/09/2013 00:00:00

I'm interested that you dislike the conclusions. they're normally the parts that people admire the most and the hardest hitting storypoints and best gameplay blend come in at those moments.

I can sort of see how MGS 2 might rub people up the wrong way, although its the most remarkable thing about the game, I'm a little more surprised to MGS 4, to the extent I can't actually figure out which part you would consider an unsatisfying conclusion. Are you talking about Snake committing suicide? Because to me that felt like a much more appropriate and powerful ending to the series and it was something of a loss of courage to not go through with it. The whole game was about that last moment and passing on, giving away for the new generation and the people who fight the wars being unsuited to living in the world they created (which in franchise terms was the central conflict for Boss and Big Boss running through the whole game and Peace Walker reinforces it. In fact when you look at Peace Walker, there would have been an incredible subtle bookend and symmetry if Snake had gone through with it

I'm not particularly unhappy with how it turned out, it's still a nice end to the Solid's but if they'd stopped at the cutaway that would seem like a more satisfying conclusion

Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
03/09/2013 00:00:00

I actually don't have too big a problem with [=MGS 4=}'s conclusion in and of itself; there is a certain over-reliance on nanomachines, but that's forgivable. What ruins Guns of the Patriots for me is all that went on behind it. It's well-known that Kojima was sick and tired of the series by that point, and it seems as though he went out of his way to make the story as miserable, dark, and implausible as possible out of spite; his original ending had Snake and Otacon turning themselves in to be executed, but his staff forced him to change it. You can find articles on the subject, if you wish. As such, a pall is cast over the entire game in retrospect for me, and I can't really bring myself to enjoy it like I would otherwise.

Apparently, Kojima's preferred series finale would've been Sons of Liberty, but I have too many problems with the way the actual plot is dropped at the end, with events of all previous games being brought down with it, in an attempt to make Raiden the "player". The fourth wall is shattered so badly that the story itself becomes irreparably damaged as a result.

TomWithNoNumbers Since: Dec, 2010
03/10/2013 00:00:00

I heard about it, but I decided to ignore it because I'd played the games and nothing had come across as particularly awful to me (nothing that wasn't present in the very beginning from Metal Gear 2) to be honest, so I don't know if it really needed to affect me.

I was also unsure of how much to really take seriously, it's true that he's been saying that he's going to stop making them since MGS 2, but he's continued, he didn't stop at 4 and he hasn't stopped at Peace Walker and each time ther have been plenty of interviews where he seems hyped for the game and the new things he's bringing to the table with it. Some of the articles I read about his attempt to 'sabotage' the series seemed rather fanciful. (I read one that claimed that he was sticking in a load of fake product placement to deliberately undermine the series, yet as far as I'm aware, he was negotiating for real product placement and since it was one of the most expensive games ever and he was worried it wasn't going to sell well, it seems more reasonable that he was just trying to turn a profit. Peace Walker had product placement in Japan, without diminishing the quality of the game. That one also contained a lot of arguments about how MGS 2 was a sign that Kojima hated the players and his fans)

If you look at this interview, sure he's not completely happy with the game and there are frustrations, but there's no way he was trying to make the game fail or doing something he wasn't proud of doing. All the talk is about stuff he should have done to make the game better than it was. There's no hint of sabotage and far from wishing he wasn't involved his regret was that he wasn't involved enough and gave away too much responsibility on the hope that his team would grow. http://www.1up.com/features/hideo-kojima-mgs4-afterthoughts

TomWithNoNumbers Since: Dec, 2010
03/10/2013 00:00:00

For example, for your specific point about how he wanted the game to end, listen to this interview on theme he wanted to bring into MGS 4 and think about how that particular ending would have fit that theme. It seems less like trying to deliberately make a satisfying ending and more the ending that naturally comes out of the ideas that he wants to put in his games. That he was pushing hard to have his vision shown through the game, surely means he was invested in it, otherwise why would he care?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2mKxNoWbO4#t=3m50s


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