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Alucard Lazy? Since: Jan, 2011
Lazy?
02/03/2015 06:19:53 •••

Too big for its britches

As a game, Danganronpa 2 is a competent sequel. And sadly, that's its greatest achievement.

It falls into the trappings described by Extra Credits as "Spectacle Creep." The feeling of bombast, vibrancy and theatrics in the character-types and island-setting, along with the enormity of the plot helps to make some elaborate, creative trials, and yet runs into the issue of where to run with the plot and gameplay between trials. When discussing visual novels, the question should become whether the gameplay serves the story instead of the other way around. Whereas DR1 had both in near-perfect alignment, DR2 seems to leave them at odds because of this design-choice towards "Super."

By working so hard towards "Super," it completely kills the sense of subtlety that DR1 built all its suspense from. Gone is the claustrophobia, paranoia and distrust, because here Monokuma doesn't care if you see him or each other as the enemy: he's happy to just start the killing. By becoming more overtly threatening to the students, our least-favorite mascot manages to become less threatening to the player. Essentially, Kirigiri was right when she said that killing the students one-by-one would be a mere slaughter while destroying them from the inside would create despair. Because DR1 is a story of despair, and DR2 is a slaughter.

In the absence of the grim, somber mood, we rarely get to see these students truly challenged; they forever remain archetypes, simply battling adversity (like so many before). Psychologically speaking, they come off as more stable than the first group, which seems set to punctuate the shocking twist about their true nature. And there lies the overall problem.

It desperately wants to knock down DR1 without proving itself worthy (no themes or ideas to call its own). It tries to be cleverer than DR1, and yet seems content to substitute a tightly-written story with shock value. It works hard to unsettle and disturb with its deconstructions, and yet rarely examines the ramifications of these deconstructions, so that when the shock wears off, nothing's been answered. It wants most of all to surpass; to be darker, grander, deeper, more impactful than DR1, and yet ties itself down by being intrinsically linked to its ideas, incapable of existing without them.

Spike Chunsoft, I expect better than competent.

SpectralTime Since: Apr, 2009
02/03/2015 00:00:00

I think the one thing I'll say in this game's defense is that not one but *two* characters are basically "Byakuya Togami Mk. II," and as I regard the original Togami as one of the first game's biggest weak spots I applaud this decision. In fact, most of the "surviving" students were made more likable because of their development, something I feel the original game accomplished only with Asahina, and to a lesser extent the main heroine.

That said, I see what you mean. My two biggest complaints would probably be

a) turning Hope's Peak Academy from a noble institution corrupted by Junko's insidious influence into an already-corrupt place that she just gave the final push to and

b) the fact that the game starts going waaaaay off the rails as it goes on, with weird avante-garde material that doesn't really serve it. And both of these problems stem from, as you say, trying to create shock value and spectacle to blow away the audience rather than keeping things grounded to engage them.

Alucard Since: Jan, 2011
02/03/2015 00:00:00

One of my favorite things about Danganronpa was that so many of the characters were such horrible people (Togami included). It makes sense to see such a hellish situation turn them into monsters, and the fact that some of them were pretty reprehensible or disgusting people before the actual killing game helps in that you get to see the character-flaws that made them that way challenged. From a dramatic standpoint, that type of story is far more interesting to me than a group of decent, likable people battling an insurmountably powerful foe. There are lots of stories that use that plot.

To me only Komaede pulled off that love-to-hate-them quality: even Saionji was still basically entertaining to have around for the most part. The whole major revelation about their being remnants of Junko’s despair cult seemed like a meaningless injection of darkness into the story for its own sake. In a way it reminds me of this skit Extra Credits used for that episode ("Spectacle Creep") that I mentioned above:

Developer 1: Alright, guys, we're stuck. How do we one-up making the player be a terrorist?
Developer 2: I got nothing.
Developer 3: Yeah, me either, that seems pretty big.
Developer 1: That's it! High-five!

SpectralTime Since: Apr, 2009
02/03/2015 00:00:00

That's not actually a skit. That's an actual thing that happens in the third Modern Warfare game, following the second making the character a terrorist.

Ideally, I feel, this scenario should portray as many characters as even-handedly and sympathetically as possible, to highlight the tragedy when one of them *does* go for the kill. And, really, I feel Togami is the only one from the first game who fails at that hurdle. Even the serial killer and the irresponsible would-be organ pirate have at least comedic value. Togami's just a dick. I spent the entire novel thinking that, if I were in their shoes, I'd kill him in cold blood and public *knowing* I'd die, just because the world would be that much better without him.

That's a failure of characterization. Ideally, the murders should be the result of a tense pressure-cooker rather than just because the characters were dicks from square one. (Yes, I know Togami never actually got killed.) That said, this ties into you problems with the game once again: the nature of the setting and the characters makes such a pressure-cooker much more difficult than the original, with more open spaces and fewer realistic carrots to dangle in front of the students.

I think part of the problem is that more stories in the Danganronpa universe were always going to stretch credulity, if only because of how elaborate and unique the original set-up was. The series might have been better served by making a series of spiritual sequels rather than trying to build a fictional universe/franchise out of it.

Alucard Since: Jan, 2011
02/03/2015 00:00:00

I like to see Togami as a Nominal Hero after chapter 4. I don't want to say that his Break the Haughty moment redeems him in any real way, but I also know that he never goes any further than talking (and I'm the type who's willing to forgive Saionji for saying the diseased should commit suicide). For that, I'd say Ludenberg (and Kuwata to some degree) is far worse.

I wouldn't mind seeing the sequel focus on a group of more world-weary characters (say, post-Tragedy survivors). One thing that bugged me about Hinata's attitude was how he could look someone in the eye and accuse them knowing he was pushing them towards their death while claiming that he wants to believe them. It seems like a roundabout way of comforting himself with how he's essentially sacrificing them (of his own admission) for his and everyone else's survival. The fifth trial is pretty great in that respect with how it shoves that hypocrisy in his face (while the "killer" uses exactly the same logic he comforted himself with about trust over doubt).

I'd like the next protagonist to be less meek about pursuing targets, and I'd like them to occasionally make a wrong accusation as a result of that attitude (basically, I want mysteries so deep that the frame-job occasionally works for once). A big problem with the games in general is how powerful they make certain characters at investigating: Kirigiri exacerbated this issue in the first game in a massive way. Your own protagonist is similar in that they're usually holding onto all the truth bullets at the start of the trial (I wouldn't mind seeing Red Herring truth bullets designed to confuse the case and contradict the real one in equal degree, forcing the player to seriously wade through the puzzle).

The addition of the consent system and the rebuttal showdown really helped to unify the group and make the trials feel more dynamic and alive. The creation of Nanami and Komaeda was another excellent move on their part, in that they split a number of Kirigiri-like traits between the two of them: her worst traits (vagueness, secretiveness and near-apathy about being trusted) seemingly went to Komaeda while her best traits (skill for stabilizing the group or explaining difficult subjects) went to Nanami. To a lesser degree, Tsumiki inherited her skills as a coroner. So to me, the ideal would be to make everyone in the group competent in some way at solving mysteries (which would make sense for a group that's already survived in a despair-afflicted world).

The biggest drawback to that approach would probably be the potential for Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy. How Spike Chunsoft will pull it off when seemingly all the members of Ultimate Despair are gone is another issue.

SpectralTime Since: Apr, 2009
02/03/2015 00:00:00

I never thought of the Komaeda/Nanami situation like that, but in hindsight that *was* quite brilliant.

The major problem I foresee with any future sequels is... Eh, you're an Extra Credits fan. You'll understand what I mean when I say that elements might be shoehorned into the game "in service to the brand" rather than in service to the game.

An example: should the next Danganronpa game currently in production feature any or all of the below:

a) a cast consisting of a group of students who all possess some kind of unique "ultimate" talent

b) a scenario where they are trapped in an enclosed space and made to kill each other following the same rules from the last two games

c) Monokuma and Junko Enoshima?

On the one hand, many of these setting elements are a big part of the games' charm. On the other, having to push them all in every game is going to make explaining the circumstances behind them difficult to impossible after a while. The biggest justification I can think of for the "virtual island" plot from 2 is largely that having the same circumstances from the first game replicated so closely already strains credulity.

Alucard Since: Jan, 2011
02/03/2015 00:00:00

I have my ideas for where they could take the series, but they're pretty much bordering on fanfiction. One common innovation tossed around is the original vision for the series where you could raise trust in the students and cause the chapters to have different outcomes and branching pathways like a proper visual novel. Since that would create more work and eat up resources while also making less tightly-written trials, I'm fine with the story-line staying linear.

However, I do know that I'd like to see little forks in the trials where the player can pursue wrong conclusions or other topics, and the characters will legitimately discuss it before eventually proving it false. These could either impact your score negatively, or reveal clues that help you arrive at the truth sooner than if you'd correct conclusion without much evidence (heck, maybe you could even be forced to go back to a topic if you find the likely killer but don't have enough evidence to convict). This would all play into what I said before about Red Herring Truth Bullets, and a general sense of cynicism in that your fellow class mates are willing to lie to your face if it furthers their own agenda.

I wouldn't mind seeing the next game bridge the approach of the two main installments by being set in a large building that happens to have windows (letting them see the outside world without being able to explore it). I mentioned before about post-Tragedy survivors being locked in a killing game together. I'd like to see what direction the writers could go in by asking what if this time they want to stay instead of leave?

I think you could do something pretty interesting with a shift like that.


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