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DominusTemporis
topic
08:38:21 PM Jun 6th 2012
So unfortunately, my last edit got the explanation cut off, so here's the full version. On The Hill keeps adding the claim that the character Nina is a Mary Sue with basically no evidence besides a couple spurious claims, so here's what I meant to write:

Let's go through this. Speaking to Pokemon: yes, it's important, but it's explained it is a rare trait held by a few, but it is hardly unique. It is also there as a tool to more easily characterize the Pokemon on the team.

Endears herself instantly to whom? Lenora and Elesa are established as old family friend. Most of the people the character gets along with are either already acquaintances, people she helps out, or just go along with the game's plot.

Ship tease? It's mostly played for comedy, N's portrayed as being creepy and awkward with his advances, and Cheren's at least established as a childhood friend, their chemistry is unsurprising.

If you want to say the character is a Mary Sue, at least have some proof when you claim it. Like I said: all or nothing, you can't just claim it on one character that you clearly dislike for whatever petty reason. Three different people have removed it by now because, simply put, you're wrong. Either add a Mary Sue entry for multiple characters and be fair about it instead of being lazy, or leave the trope alone and stop being so stubborn about adding misinformation.
OnTheHill
10:14:29 PM Jun 6th 2012
I didn't even state outright that the character is a Mary Sue — only that she's slipping into it, and has some traits. That's because I know it's a popular strip from a popular artist, and people adore it. Hell, I adored the Platinum run and the first half of this one. I'm trying to be as neutral and all inclusive as possible, and would rather not get into the nitty gritty details of why she's Sue-ish.

But here we go.

A lot of Nuzlocke protagonists speak to or communicate with their Pokemon; in fact, most do. And yes, this is to more easily characterize the teams. It's important. For Nina, it's exactly as you said; "a rare trait held by a few." A Very Special Thing. That's one point in the Mary Sue Box, but no big deal by itself. But then...

So Lenora and Elesa, both gym leaders, are old family friends. A little odd, but nothing wrong with this. But we can't forget Burgh, who almost immediately became Nina's sassy gay friend. Add it all together, and that's a lot of canon characters who adore her. Another point.

This strip has a *lot* of ship tease, to the point where someone else added it as a trope. And yes, plenty of it comes from N — the pretty boy of Black and White, the Enesemble Darkhorse, one of the fandom bicycles — being a creepy, mouthbreathing stalker with a crush on Nina, more or less out of the blue. Having your character enter into any romantic relationship, one-sided or not, with a canon character is dangerous ground when you're writing...Kynim in the Platinum run squeaked by with Roark because it wasn't a major part of the story. A lot of people are going to indulge their shipping fantasies in Nuzlockes, and that's fine, but it IS a Sue-ish/Stue-ish thing to do, and (almost) always will be. Add in Cheren, same thing. So irregardless, another point for Nina.

Any of these things on their own wouldn't be problematic; you'd be hard pressed to find a Nuzlocke comic without them. But add them all together and yes, your character is slipping into Sue/Stu territory.

And no, I'm not going to add a Mary Sue/Gary Stu entry for every character. I add tropes where I see them, and I've never seen a character that struck me as idealized as Nina. That's not laziness, that's more Nuzlockes I need to read.

The bottom line is I'm trying to add a negative trope in a gentle way, and phrase it as "professionally" as possible. I've asked as nicely as possible for suggestions on doing that, or even finding a different trope that means the same thing, and I'm going to do it yet again. Suggestions?
flamemario12
topic
06:41:09 PM Dec 9th 2011
I don't remember that Hale have caught a pokemon named Connery.....
flamemario12
topic
06:41:09 PM Dec 9th 2011
I don't remember that Hale have caught a pokemon named Connery.....
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