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daijoubu
topic
06:31:59 AM Oct 3rd 2011
Wasn't little!Amy in the Doctor's room, and not Amy's? He put a do-not disturb sign on the door after he first glimpsed into the room, and they knocked that same sign over running out of the room.

Little!Amy didn't represent Amy's fear of still being left behind. She represented The Doctor's fear of failing the people who trust him — something that contributed to his saying goodbye to Amy and Rory at the end of the episode.

I don't think we actually saw inside of Amy's room, in order for the bait and switch to work. We were meant to think it was her room until they passed the do not disturb sign again.
superdewd2
topic
04:02:15 PM Sep 22nd 2011
Continuity nod(?):Amy saw the Minotaur thing (can't remember what it was called) and called it beautiful wanting to go to it. Rory did the same thing with the Siren in Curse of the Black spot. I would add it myself but my last few attempts to link things hasn't worked well.
Zeta
topic
08:58:06 PM Sep 18th 2011
Er, "Anything that has the form of a Weeping Angel becomes itself a Weeping Angel". Shouldn't those holodeck angels have morphed into actual Weeping Angels?
moocow1452
08:14:58 AM Sep 19th 2011
I think the logic is that there needs to be a original Weeping Angel to copy in order to create a new one. Sketching one from memory or fabricating one out of hard light doesn't count. That or the holodeck makes them just non-Angel enough to turn so that the Minotaur can get to it's intended victim.
Carnivac
01:35:18 AM Sep 20th 2011
I can't remember exactly cos I don't have the episode here but in Blink was there one drawn in the stuff Sally gave the Doctor at the end or is my memory playing tricks on me? And anyways even if it was true I suppose a holodeck that taps into greatest fears would have some sort of failsafe to prevent an assumingly well known threat as the angels from manifesting and taking over the place.
LokiLieSmith
12:50:03 PM Sep 25th 2011
@moocow1452, the hotel's image of the Angels must have come from someone who'd seen one, who carried its image in hir head in sufficient detail to program the hotel. Let's hope it had a failsafe...
ngrey651
topic
02:30:20 PM Sep 18th 2011
You know, I'm a bit confused with Steve's seeming antagonism towards Religion and spirituality. He seems to be presenting faith and religion in a rather negative light. I mean, the Master using constant Biblical quotes, that I could forgive. Weeping Angels, fine, it's a scary monster. The Church becoming an army...I started getting iffy. THEN we have said church fighting against the Doctor along with Headless Monks. That seemed a bit of a stab. Then we find out the Silence is a Religious Order. Now I was getting annoyed. Then...this episode comes along.

Why is it that Moffat seems to just not like the idea of religion or faith being a good thing? Why does he keep casting them in a negative light?
Swizz
11:29:47 PM Sep 18th 2011
Because he's not a religious person. He's said on Confidential that he doesn't believe in souls or God or any of that, and based on what we've seen, he doesn't seem to hold a terribly high opinion of faith in general. While tragic, especially since this is a show that more often than not seems to go out of its way to accommodate for differences in worldview and show diversity in many of its aspects, Mr. Moffat seems to be allowing personal bias to impinge on that. Which, given his occupation as a writer, is no surprise. Doesn't stop the situation from sucking, but, there you are.
nogenius
03:01:35 AM Sep 19th 2011
Maybe you're reading too much into it. Seeing as Moff didn't write it, and the minotaur feeds on all faith, not just religious faith.
moocow1452
08:17:38 AM Sep 19th 2011
I think that, yeah, he's biased towards faith. But it's conditional that he is biased towards unshakeable faith in corruptible ideals and imperfect people, and he's not using the G-Word out of respect. Or it opens a huge can of worms.
Carnivac
01:32:33 AM Sep 20th 2011
Would you prefer they portray the Doctor as some sort of Christ-like figure like many god-awful cringeworthy moments during the RTD era? Why shouldn't faith or religion be shown in a negative light? At the end of the day it's not going to always save you anyways. I never ever want to see the Doctor floating all lit up while people chant his name again...
ngrey651
07:36:13 AM Sep 23rd 2011
You misunderstand, Carnivac, and you're not always right about the benefits of religion or faith. You talk like someone who's been burnt before, a scoffer, or doubter. Rory has faith...in NOTHING. That's why he kept seeing the exits...

And that is NOT a good thing. When you have faith in absolutely NOTHING, that's a terrible thing indeed. Absolute faith in the Doctor saved all of Earth, remember? The Archangel Network? I thought that was a great way to present faith and belief and trust in a way that had a practical application, because faith LITERALLY became power. We could use a few more examples like that.
LokiLieSmith
12:47:54 PM Sep 25th 2011
Hark at the closed-mindedness. Do you actually know any atheists? Like, at all?
emeriin
12:53:50 PM Sep 25th 2011
And Rory's had a lot of bad things happen to him and his family. I'd lose faith too.
ArlaGrey
06:50:43 AM Sep 27th 2011
I took it as less "Rory has no faith", more "Rory doesn't rely on something else to save him". Look at the other characters:

  • Joe is a gambler. He believes that he can do things which affect how lucky he is (if I'm not mistaken, he had some kind of lucky charms?). Therefore, when Joe sees his worst fear, he starts hoping that he will be lucky and survive.

  • Howie is a conspiracy theorist. No matter how bizarre, how terrifying things get, he will always think "It's a government thing, and someone will uncover it eventually".

  • Gibbis immediately surrenders to hostile people. He believes that by doing this, he can save his life (probably the reason he ultimately survived, as it was clear that wouldn't work here).

  • Amy believes that, no matter how bad things are, the Doctor will save her. She has seen that he's not perfect, but deep down, she still believes she will be safe as long as he's there.

Rory, on the other hand, has accepted that the Doctor can't always save people, and so his thought upon seeing his worst fear would be "I've got to do something", rather than hoping someone or something else would save him. He knows that the Doctor will probably come to help, but he's not going to depend on that hope.

That's how I took it anyway. I may have got it completely wrong.
gossipguy17
topic
01:02:58 AM Sep 18th 2011
What was in the Doctor's room? As far as I'm concerned, it could only be the Doctor himself.
Scardoll
05:17:14 AM Sep 18th 2011
edited by Scardoll
It's probably the Doctor himself, especially since that ties into the theme of this Series.

The other possible theories I can think of is that it's the Master, since the sound resembled the Paradox Machine, or that it's the TARDIS breaking down in some way. The first one doesn't really fit with the current storyline (And is only based on a callback), while the second is intertwined with the story of the previous series but doesn't seem like something the Doctor would react so calmly to.
SilentDave
05:50:32 AM Sep 18th 2011
I was expecting the Dream Lord again, being the manifestation of the Doctor's dark side and all.
AbsofFlab
06:31:05 AM Sep 18th 2011
I freeze framed the shot of his eye peering into the room. The reflection of the object/person/other (onto his eye) that he is looking at is extremely blurry, but it looks like it could be the white lettering that lines the top of the TARDIS (i.e., "Police Box Public Call".

What? Of COURSE I am over-reading things...
moocow1452
11:19:30 AM Sep 18th 2011
I'm tempted to say it's the Valeyard, but then the number would probably would be 12, especially since the Doctor's death in Utah is a fixed point in time as we know it.
keseri
11:48:10 AM Sep 18th 2011
It was Amelia. I was expecting it to be the Dream Lord but nope, little Amelia Pond. If you remember, he puts the "Do Not Disturb" sign on the door. The last room they show, the one the Minotaur dies outside, has the 'do not disturb' drop off as it disappears.
superdewd2
12:13:02 PM Sep 18th 2011
To Scardoll: That sound is the Tardis' Cloister bells not just the Paradox Machine. It's played at a few other times such as at the end of Turn Left. It is basically the "SERIOUS DANGER" alarm.
moocow1452
12:28:13 PM Sep 18th 2011
@keseri, can't be. The room that they were in was 7, according to the door, and the Doctor's was 11. Remember that the Minotaur walked a ways before he collapsed, and him being on the Doctor's door was probably a coincidence.
ArtFever
04:52:26 PM Sep 18th 2011
I interpreted it as the TARDIS fading away without him.
nogenius
03:09:20 AM Sep 19th 2011
Maybe 7 and 11 were doors to the same room.
Sabinmoon
10:55:01 AM Sep 19th 2011
edited by Sabinmoon
I thought that the doctor's biggest fear was him loosing that which he hold most dear, and he has the biggest faith in himself, the TARDIS. Whether it dying, or some other event. Also, the fear of loosing the biggest thing you have belief in, you cant really fall back on it, and the hotel kinda fails getting him to "Praise Him". Also, the Do Not Disturb sign would be to let the TARDIS die in peace
daijoubu
06:33:59 AM Oct 3rd 2011
It was little!Amy — they were in the Doctor's room at the end, not Amy's.
snowyalice
topic
09:04:58 PM Sep 17th 2011
What Rory fears the most: Amy. Henpecked Husband much?
moocow1452
11:13:50 AM Sep 18th 2011
My impression of Rory's Door being the Fire Exit is not so much that the Hotel can't get to him, so much as his faith is that he's the voice of practicality of the group when things start hitting the fan, but in his mind, Amy is eating out of the Doctor's hand and Doc wouldn't give him the time of day, so he keeps his mouth shut, but knows he has a valid opinion. YMMV, and I'm not ever sure that's how he perceives the dynamic.
SpiritOfSahara
topic
02:27:29 PM Sep 17th 2011
I thought the Doctor hated apples. I thought the Doctor didn't know how to solve Rubick's cube. WHAT IS GOING ON.
X3
04:03:43 PM Sep 17th 2011
Nah, he hated pears. No idea about the Rubik's cube.
EnigmaticInk
06:39:21 PM Sep 17th 2011
He did hate apples in the eleventh hour, could not spit that thing out. Though that could just be post regeneration weirdness.
HipsterOwl
06:55:18 PM Sep 17th 2011
My theory is that... well, it has something to do with the reporter going, "Crowds lined the mall today as Holy Roman Emperor Winston Churchill returned to the Buckingham Senate on his personal mammoth." (It's on the recap page for episode 13.)

Maybe reality is collapsing. Again. Things are going horribly, horribly wrong. The quote above is obviously wrong, the apple and the Rubik's Cube are more subtly wrong.
Sabinmoon
10:52:24 AM Sep 19th 2011
When he went for the apple in the first place, if I remember correctly, he was talking about how much detail went into the hotel to actually looking real. Along with how he reacted to the tea, I originally chalked it up to that they couldn't quite get everything right, like the taste
SpiritOfSahara
11:41:10 AM Dec 27th 2011
Or maybe he was just lying.
superdewd2
topic
01:54:18 PM Sep 17th 2011
The doctor's "scariest room" was obviously him and River "having some fun". That's why he put the do not disturb sign on the door.
venort
topic
01:23:10 PM Sep 17th 2011
edited by venort
part 1984, part cube. let's look at both aspects:

it uses the same nursery rhyme as 1984 for a similar purpose, and is basically a fake hotel containing room 101 for everyone inside it. certain things cannot be turned off, same as in 1984.

it's a constantly shifting maze containing people who have no idea why they're there, and contains a lot of character elements. we have:

-a conspiracy theorist

-a doctor (of medicine, plus the obvious)

-a character with aspects of french-ness

-a character that is killed off before the opening credits to demonstrate the setting

and probably some stuff I've missed for both. all in all, one of the best episodes in a while
nogenius
03:05:50 AM Sep 19th 2011
Surely there's a little House of Leaves too. Not just the shifting rooms, but at one point didn't a shot of a red camera go to the POV of the minotaur? (red struck-out text is associated with the minotaur in HOL)
mszegedy
topic
06:03:06 PM Sep 9th 2011
Similar to Hotel Historia.
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