Perpetually Confused
About the Star Trek example. Part of me wants to delete it, as it's not accurate. Even in TOS, it's clear the Federation does not work with the USA. While it has a president (who is never mentioned until the films) it's lead by a council (mentioned in TOS proper), and each of the member of the federation is self-governed (mentioned in TOS). All of this was done on purpose by Gene Roddenberry to make the Federation appear more "international"
Pretty much the only point is the use of a president (lots of country have one) and the USS acronym.
Edited by Ghilz Hide / Show Replies
Which Star Trek example are you talking about? The one about the original series, which rightly points out that the crew was 99.9999999999999999999% American, and was clearly intended to be a US Naval ship in space?
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
Well on the bridge crew (and thus speaking crewmembers) it's lower than that. Chekov, and Scotty are definatly not American, Spock is an alien (His mom's birthplace is not known), and Uhura's birthplace is unknown (though she is fluent is Swahili). Only Kirk, Sulu and Mc Coy are confirmed americans. Other regular crewmen are never given a place of origin.
And every minor background character has an American name is for the most part is played by a white American. The trope still applies.
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
The if the description is based on the actors, the entry needs to reflect that.
And heck, that's not even true, while admitably more names are english (which in itself doesn't mean american), the names run the gammut, including Italian (Spinelli, Giotto) Native American (Walking Bear), Indian (Rahda) & French (Martine)
More importantly, the makeup of the crew IS NOT THIS TROPE. Nor is the ranking system. Read the description
This trope is about the tendency in works of science fiction to show the default form of human government to be an American-style Republic.
Which, has I have pointed above, is not the case. It's a republic, but it's run like a Confederation, the structure does not have a bicameral system, and outside of president, the institutions are all named differently from the USA
Edited by Ghilz
You're still being overly pedantic and nitpicky.
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
If you want to see it that way, then so be it. I cannot control your self-esteem issues. But you are still using an overly narrow definition of the trope description to exclude what is otherwise a pretty good example.
Especially given that Roddenberry explicitly used the Federation as a stand in for the USA, and the Klingons as a stand-in for the Soviet Union, during the production of the original series.
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
Hrrrm How? The Klingons have little development in TOS beyond being warlike.
And again, Im sticking to a definition. If you don't like it, then re-write it. "Expanding" descriptions is what causes Trope Decay.
I wrote the original.
They were the "all-engulfing conquerers". Or were you asleep during history class when they discussed the Domino Theory of communism?
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
Worldmaker, drop the personal attacks. If you can't be civil you'll be removed from the wiki regardless of whether you are technically correct.
That said, The Federation in general and the Trope Namer in particular likes to be this trope and it is anecdotally true that Rodenberry intended Star Trek to reflect a U.S. vs. U.S.S.R. vs. China political environment. So the trope would seem to fit.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
There is an inacuracy in the Star Carrier example line: USNA responds by using illegal weapons and attacking civilian targets. It should read that Paneuropean forces launched the attacks in response to USNA non-complianse.