Discussion Main / TropeTalk

Shouldn't there be a link in here to, you know, the Trope Talk forum? Seems like a gross oversight unless it's been intentionally ignored, since literally every time I've seen Trope Talk written out, people were referring to the forum.

In TV tropes about Mary Sue, there is a line that says ( As this essay reveals, suspiciously Mary Sue-like characters were noted in subscriber-submitted articles for 19th-century childrens' magazines, making this trope Older Than You Think. )

Before that line there was this line first : ( The name "Mary Sue" comes from the 1974 Star Trek fanfic A Trekkie's Tale. Originally written as a parody of the standard Self-Insert Fic of the time (as opposed to any particular traits), the name was quickly adopted by the Star Trek fanfiction community. Its original meaning mostly held that it was an Always Female Author Avatar, regardless of character role or perceived quality )

The essay reveals was this : http://www.merrycoz.org/papers/MARYSUE.xhtml While the " older than you think " was this : https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OlderThanTheyThink

And that what they wrote in the first link - The essay reveals - In the 19-cetunry part was this : ( Nineteenth-century versions appear in the pages of Robert Merry’s Museum. Founded in 1841 by Samuel Goodrich, by the time the magazine was absorbed by the Youth’s Companion in 1872 it had featured works by every major nineteenth-century American writer for children, from Goodrich to Alcott, Jacob Abbott, Mary Mapes Dodge, and Sophie May. It also published works by lesser literary lights, most notably the subscribers themselves, who made the magazine their own from 1857 to 1868. While boys tended to write non-fiction articles, girls most often wrote stories and poems—some about wonderful girls whose accomplishments and charms are tangibly appreciated by those around them. Emily Martin, who in 1862 saves a sleeping Indian chief from certain death by bear; Maia, whose gentleness and kindness are extolled by animals and elves in 1858; Unella, a white child raised by Native Americans in 1865, so lovable that she holds the entire village in a gentle thralldom; even little Ellen, who dies beautifully of her mother’s thoughtlessness in 1849—all have elements we associate with Mary Sue. )

Note : if you want to know more about that to help me, here is Mary Sue trope link https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue )

fom what I understand, Mary Sues were pretty much older than we think and they were always there, but the term and the trope it self created in 70's by a fan or fans while in 19-th-century there was just too perfect characters without the name of this trope nor those definition of what a Mary Sue as now the fans made up, so simply there was Mary Sues in 19-th-century NOT the name of this term/trope or the definitions of it, there was no made up word for it nor a definitions by the fans unlike now, so the term is originally made up by someone but the " too " perfect was still there in the past, making this trope old and making the origins of Mary Sues old, not because the definitions or the term of Mary Sue was there but because there was too perfect characters back then, even without a name made up, since we have a word for it we call old too prefect characters a Mary Sues, so the one who wrote about 19-the-century called them Mary Sues because we have the name of the too perfect character which is called Mary Sue, so those old characters are veiwed as a Mary Sues after the term was born in 70's, the trope wasn't exactly made up, it was made up, but it was there before it has a word and fans / people definitions, so it consider as it a trope with history origins even if it not exaltcly history origins, since there was no word for it but because there was too perfect characters.

Please answer me with a short question if I get it right or wrong without more information about that, or about this trope or this term, the only one thing I need to know did I get it right or wrong ? Since I'm not too good at English