Main King Arthur Discussion

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01:54:19 PM Mar 5th 2014
Quote : Executive Meddling: You know how most stories of Camelot feature a Love Triangle between Arthur, Guenivere, and latecomer Lancelot? There's evidence that Lancelot's creator only turned him into the Queen's lover after being ordered to do so by his patron, one of Eleanor of Aquitaine's daughters.

From what he himself says in « le Chevalier à la Charette », Chétien de Troyes wrote a book about Lancelot on the order of his patroness of the moment, Marie de Champagne (although it was apparently not his favorite subject), but I never read anywhere, text or commentary or other, that before then there was no love affair between the two and that she asked him to create it. Is it just a supposition or does anyone have a source I could find ?

04:08:31 AM Apr 17th 2013
"The young adult novel, Winter of Magic's Return by Pamela F. Service, and its sequel, concerns three young children in post-nuclear war England. One of them turns out to be a youthened/reborn Merlin who had lost his memory and, even after he gets it back, has some issues with remembering spells and making them work right. Ends up becoming a Magic Comes Back scenario."

The purple beard was a riot. (Purple is a recurring good-guy magic color.)

There's a sequel, Tomorrow's Magic (...Googling makes that two, Yesterday's Magic) where the frame story is Arthur persuading or kicking stubborn noble butt -more or less what he does in some of the early Arthur stories. (Running gag: Merlin's legendary appearance vs his current younger one.)
10:23:03 AM Apr 4th 2012
Example needs context:

02:00:42 PM Jul 12th 2011
Some stuff found during a page cleanup:

A bit too much detail? Perhaps this should go in the example section of Germans Love David Hasselhoff rather than the King Arthur YMMV page; it's a bit too unwieldy to go in this page's trope list:
  • A large part of William the Conqueror's army came from Brittany and for them the Conquest of 1066 was payback time against the Anglo-Saxons, and by and large the 12th-century accounts were shaped by this Norman-Breton alliance, basically presenting the Norman and Angevin kings as heirs in spirit to Arthur's kingdom (just as the Bretons regarded themselves as heirs in blood. In Geoffrey of Monmouth's account Arthur's grandfather Constantine was called to Britain from Brittany to fight the Saxons and Arthur's kingdom (rather like the Norman and Plantagenet one) straddled both sides of the Channel.

This is Wild Mass Guessing, based on a very YMMV interpretation of the end of ''Code Geass
  • Also worth noting that, due to the debate regarding The actual state of Lelouch at the end of the series, his potentially being alive could be taken as a nod to the end of the Arthurian legend, where the words "Here lies Arthur, the once and Future King" are found inscribed on Arthur's tomb.

I have no idea how the last sentence of this example is supposed to end, or if the example is even valid, since I'm not familiar with the comic book version of Doctor Who nor Marvel Comics' Arthur series.
  • The Merlin from this series may also be the same Merlin from the Doctor Who comic series. He/they may or may not be the extradimensional Merlyn who empowered Captain Britain. Since all three are time-traveling shape-shifting wizards who use aliases, ??????

A Sonic the Hedgehog example gone into Thread Mode:
  • Of course, it gets stranger. "Arthur" was merely an illusion conjured up by Merlin, Merlina tries to make Camelot eternal (Sonic's response is, basically, "Who Wants to Live Forever??"), and it turns out that Excalibur is the true form of Caliburn. Oh, and lastly? Sonic is the genuine King Arthur. Also, Silver playing the role of Galahad while Shadow is Lancelot (Lancelot being Galahad's father) has Unfortunate Implications...
    • Also some Fridge Logic - in the original legends, Lamorak and Percival are brothers. How can this Percival (played by Blaze) and this Lamorak (played by Jet the Hawk) be "brothers" when they're not the same species?
    • It gets worse; in some adaptations of the story, the "Fair Unknown", Gawain's son, is told to be Percival (due to the redundancy of having two characters with identical backstories in the case of "Gingalain," Gawain's son's name in some other versions.) By this logic, Percival (a cat) is the daughter of Gawain (an echidna). Ignoring any and all "Guardian of Mineral Macguffin" in their characters, this would be biologically impossible.

07:00:53 AM Aug 26th 2010
Apparently french authors had Gawain suffer Badass Decay. As this probably means Chrétien de Troyes did it, shouldn't it be the other way round, since he wrote during the 12th century (Perceval le Gallois: written in 1181)?
09:36:14 PM Oct 17th 2010
Possibly, but it's generally accepted that, if one follows the popular notion that Gawain is Gwalchmai, Gawain's standing as the fiercest knight barring Arthur began to decay around the time of the Lancelout stories. Since Gawain's character (as Gwalchmai) is mentioned and had stories about him as far back as Culwch and Olwen, Chretien de Troyes' authorship would be seen as the turning point of the character.

Not to say that ALL stories of Gawain from that time period protrayed him in a bad/weak light - Gawain and the Green Knight, for instance, being written in this period, and is his most triumphant moment - but by and large Gawain went from being Arthur's Number One Badass to ranked below Lancelot, Galahad, and many other lesser knights.

The Badass Decay mentioned here is his trend toward being a reasonably cowardly buffoon in later French works, as opposed to the God-Mode Sue he could be in older Arthurian tales, or the competent-but-hot-headed Anti-Hero he would be portrayed as in modern works (which, interestingly, follows closely to his characterization in The Green Knight).
02:08:07 PM Mar 5th 2014
Where do you see Gawain portrayed as bad or weak in Chrétien de Troyes ?...

In almost all of his appearances he his shown as the perfect knight, to compare the hero with. E.g. when Gawain absolutely refuses to go into the cart because it would be shameful, while Lancelot hesitates a second and then jumps in in hopes of finding the queen, nevermind his honour and all that.

The worst I have read about him is for him to be somewhat of a womanizer. That, and the annoying habit to use him, as well as other knights of reference, to lose a fight against the protagonist of a story in order to show how this protagonist is great at that moment (Cligès, and I don't remember which others).

01:35:05 PM Jul 1st 2010
I clarified the lists of some of the artifacts into a more cohesive bullet-point list and divided the categories even more than a normal page; mythologies are far too huge for the typical pages, especially Arthurian mythology, so I added an PDA section, Grail subsection of that, and Storylines section, in addition to the original Main Characters section.
09:16:54 AM Jun 27th 2010
I have some minor qualms with the lack of the Arthurian mythos itself not being represented in the examples list. Given, the mythos itself is large in numer, but let's say the romances should be added, as well as episodes from the History of the kings of Britain and the like.
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