Discussion Main / JeanneDArchetype

After reading through this, and all the examples, I don't think this is actually a trope. There aren't a lot of examples to start with, with a lot of subversions and deconstructions listed... but I think thats mostly because its so vague. Its like every entry has a caveat attached. Theres no consistency.

Most seem to be "woman leads revolution"

And the other half are literally about Jeanne of Arc, and not an archetype, but referencing the individual herself.

Even if this page stays, I think it would be prudent to point out that Jeanne of Arc never fought directly, which directly contradicts the archetype which nearly always has her directly fighting.

Starting from the top:

Shaman king says the character is leader with vague religious elements with a sort of divinity who dies by fire.

Super Dimension Century Orguss is litteraly Jeanne of Arc

Berserk is A girl on a holy mission who fights sometimes... And that is the basis for calling it an archetype? Fire is... involved but has nothing to do with her being burned. And its demons, not god giving her voices... so it's practically a subversion.

Fairy Tail: a young girl leading slaves to freedom with her newfound magic powers. So litteraly lady leading revolution. Magic powers has nothing to do with the archetype unless powers = divinity.

Digimon is again, a direct reference to Jeanne, and in part of it a subversion.

Code Geass is a direct reference to Jeanne for the first part. The second is just "Magic lady leads against oppressors" The third... its a strategist who is a symbol and martyrs themselves. The fact he does or doesn't fight doesn't seem like an element as both elements are used as justification. If he doesn't fight, he's more like Jeanne. If he DOES fight, he fits with the archetype, and thus is more like Jeanne. Both outcomes make him more tropey? How does that make sense?

Trinity Blood is a lady leader of partisans, hailed as a saint, who cross dresses. But thats it. She doesn't die, and isn't from humble origins. And most fiction which is set prior to the modern era will have "action ladies" cross dressing because its the only way they can fight. Simply put, the idea that "cross dressing" is an element seems to be more happenstance rather than a specific reference.

Joan of Arc is, again, a direct reference.

Black Cat is a leader, but only of a group of assasins... so how is that the kind of "leadership" that Jeanne is refferencing? The fact she is skilled at using a sword... Again, if she wasn't skilled at using a sword, wouldn't that also be used in favor of her being like Jeanne? And the last element, is a direct reference.

Chrono Crusade: Girl of humble origins, action girl, militant for a noble cause. But the noble cause isn't revolution... she isn't a st. The action girl element also doesn't help things because either way it counts. and she doesn't get persecuted or killed as a witch. And then the show invokes her directly, which is probably why its on this list.

Lyrical Nanoha is lady leader during wartime, who dies, and is then venerated. Thats it.

Puella Magi Madoka Magica is a direct reference to jeanne

Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D is a direct reference, and then just elements of the story but not implementing them. A card has witches... and her cards have knights and horses... The "samus is a girl" thing is weird because like they are trying to invoke crossdressing but "samus is a girl" isn't about crossdressing. Its about lack of presenting as a gender... so how is that a reference?

Rage of Bahamut: Genesis is a direct reference about a character literally called Jeanne d'Arc

Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin is a direct reference and showing of her actual history, for a character named Joan...

Nobunaga the Fool is a direct reference.

Saga of Tanya the Evil is basically Lady militant (again, is this in favor or against the archetype? It can't be both) who is pious and patriotic.

To be clear... My problem is not with a page referencing Joan of Arc. My problem is calling it an archetype. Any that are just references don't really fit and should just go here:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/JoanOfArc

But if you take out all the references, theres not enough left and they are all so vague, so how can this be a trope?

Is it impossible to Gender Flip this trope?

Could Fate Stay Night's Saber be considered a Jeanne D'Archetype? She's supposed to be [[Spoiler: Arthur Pendragon]], but everything about her makes her fit the bill.

Fun fact: I recall reading once that Tolkien thought that the [[Spoiler: King Arthur]] legends originated in France, which is why Saber also wears a french maid costume, as opposed to the more orthodox ones.

Example in TV - Buffy

Seems to me it's no coincidence, in the halloween episode in which she forgets who she is, she chooses the name "Joan".