Discussion GameBreaker / YuGiOhCardGame

Sorry I took so long, but I did take this to the cleanup thread to hopefully get more attention to this issue.

I also massively cut down on the first two overlong entries in the duel monsters folder.

What about OCG cards that have been banned or limited before they're released in the TCG. Say an Emergency Banlist for Gigantic Splight. Is that allowed?

Yes, cards hit in the OCG but not in the TCG have been added multiple times already, there's no issue with that here. I suggest we leave the Splight entry as it is, but that should be the exception rather than the rule.

How about wait two months after each main OCG booster pack comes out before they can be added as that's usually the time when OCG banlists are updated as well as to prove that they're truly opressive in the current meta

I feel that could work, yup. Feel free to edit my previous attempt at timing the addition of entries regarding OCG stuff.

I'll respect this decision, but the Splights deck has been consistently dominating the OCG meta to tier 0 levels, so it feels wrong NOT to include it immediately.

Also, may I suggest that OCG banned cards to be placed into their own section instead of lumping them into the historical cards, for easier reading? It would probably require the "TCG banned cards" to be split into "TCG only" and "TCG/OCG", but I think it's worth doing.

Sooner or later, the OCG will need to address them. Wait until the banlist is updated before they can be added or failing that, 1 week after Darkwing Blast's release. If the next set replaces Splight as the dominant meta, then it's pretty much just a flavor of the month pick and not really an oppressive deck that needs to be answered.

Yeah there's zero harm in waiting a bit to add entries, Splight are indeed very broken, but a standard needs to be set so the problem doesn't come up in the future again - such as it happened with Evenly Matched or Majespecter back in the day.

I personally question a bit the addition of an OCG folder - barring meta warping cards like Maxx C, most of the hits between both formats are extremely similar. Amazoness Archer and Cannon Soldier clones should probably merit their own entry (if they don't already have one) in the Duel Monsters folder (and you can't really adress them one by one as they're all banned in the OCG because of the same reason), Gandora X can be mentioned alongside the Guardragons, Wind-Up Hunter can be adressed alongside Wind-Up Zenmaity, Divine Sword of the Phoenix Blade is widely agreed to be a scapegoat hit because they didn't want to hit Isolde and the Knightmares that fed off discards, and Mystic Mine already has an entry. 5 cards is just not enough to justify an extra folder.

Toadally Awesome got banned in the June 2022 OCG banlist no doubt due to being abused by Splight. I believe this is enough proof of Splight being game-breaking in the meta?

Yup, now let's check which entry is better written to be restored... Also Flowandereeze is slowly getting there lol, probably could write an entry, but I feel that the deck will get harder hits down the line once the power level decreases, so I'm gonna wait a bit.

I would wait a little bit to restore Splights because they might be getting extra support and the new combo lines post-banlist aren't fully explored, so the entry might get outdated quickly.

Also, prepare the queue for "clearly that grass looks greener wasn't broken enough, so let's activate it during the opponent's first turn" Tearalaments and probably also the newly announced "I can be splashed into any deck with no restrictions and cripple the opponent's extra deck, hand, field and GY if they dare activate anything" Kshatri-la. Seems Splights DID end up as sort-of "flavor of the month" deck via Konami ramping up the power creep to such a degree each new archetype out-brokens the previous.

As for Floowanderzee, not sure if it deserves an entry. Sure, it's powerful, but it's only commonly played on the OCG because it is the only combo deck in Yugioh that can laugh in the face of Maxx C. On the TCG, it hasn't been particularly relevant.

also how can I put the link for Master Peace and Diagram in the text just made an account

Firewall I think warrants a mention given that it effectively landed Grandsoil and Emeral on the list.

Mmmm, at that last one? Nope. World Chalice and Firewall haven't done anything YET. Emeral landed on the banlist because of ages worth of unhealthy interactions, ending with Zoodiac using it for their Fusion Sub - Norden combo. I will add it later. Remember to also add dates for the relevant hits - True Draco got Diagram and Master Peace forbidden in the OCG, Lythosagym and Dinomight banned, True King Return and Ignis Heat limited and it could also be argued that it got Denglong banned.

In that respect, I think I will make an entry covering Denglong and its interactions with True Draco and Dinosaur - that would deserve a spot on the list but I think I will simply cover Miscellanosaurus.

I agree with Emeral being banned due to Zoos honestly I am not sure if Grandsoil was banned due to FW if it was that problematic people probably would've figured it out regardless. While on the subject TBH I think Elma should be unbanned due to most of the FTKS surrounding it being too slow to pull off other than the Exodia one which is due to a card I am shocked hasn't been banned due to the ammount of FTK's it allows (Royal Magical Library)

The reason Grandsoil was banned was also because it's been abused in ftk combos for a while, the Firewall Dragon one being pretty consistent was the final nail in its coffin. As for Elma, its still really broken if you can get a situation to abuse its potential to generate spell counters. If I were in charge, I'd probably consider bringing it back, as it's unlikely to be consistent enough to bring back, but who knows.

Also, with Firewall officially being limited in the OCG Jan 2018 banlist, I think that might be enough to warrant its inclusion now, but I'll wait for further comment first.

I see your point, if you would like, we should delete every unrealeased cards in the entry and focus on trimming down the ARC-V era folders first cause i feel like its the most subjective entry and the big Power Creep means that its easier to find a card that stood out in such meta. The S0 you mentioned above, Ultimate Falcon, and Masked Heroes I think are the easiest candidates to delete given that theyre hardly viable in the metagame.

Masked Heroes should be trimmed, not reduced, because Dark Law was still a bitch of a card. Ultimate Falcon, believe it or not, did see play. S0 should be heavily reworked because it's broken the game in a different way; we'll never get a consistent way to search Rank-Up-Magic Normal Spell cards as long as it's around. Remove the pre-addition stuff though, yeah. We were right about Zoodiacs, but horribly wrong about Amorphages.

I think that while Ultimate Falcon was played in some tournaments it ultimately ended up being irrelevant - thanks to another Game-Breaker, Utopia the Lightning. The thing is, that Game Breakers are only considered as such when they're opressive. I agree that on that kind of terminology, S0 fits in the sense that it opresses the card design of rank-up spells. But not Ultimate Falcon. After all, there are multiples of its kind and they're just as easy to get around thanks to the Kaijus and other cards.

Ok, I already started the work by trimming down the stuff that was rogue tier (HERO and Majespecters) and which entries are only fear-mongering, took down the VRAINS stuff (Firewall Dragon FT King is inconsistent and is only used because of its good link markers in some decks anyway and at 1 copy) and cut all of the Artifact/Hieratic stuff that was only fear-mongering. I know that some cards ended up being hit (Hieratic Seal of Convocation and Artifact Sanctum/Moralltach) so if someone could help me to build better entries for Artifact Sanctum/Moralltach it would be a great help. Also I don't really think Hieratics deserve an entry: sure, they were powerful but ended up being phased out by their own meta and their only hit was to their searcher and even then it was only semi-limited.

Cut down all of the Kaiju stuff except the relevant ones (that is, the Kaijus themselves and Slumber) because, c'mon, Kaiju as a deck combined with Graydles and Owner Control ****ing sucked. Kaijus are only good when used as an engine for even more oppresive stuff.

Made clean-up on the general and banlist parts; removed some flat-out wrong information, added some missing examples and removed some Natter. I think I'm missing some examples that don't need a meta context (such as era-dependent monsters) but I'm going to follow with Duel Monsters and GX tomorrow. Also already posted on my edition reasons why Firewall Dragon doesn't qualify for Game-Breaker.

If you are that adamant about Firewall being unworthy, then fine. But was deleting the kozmo Farmgirl entry really necessary? Especially given that it's the main reason Emergency Teleport was limited?

Also, we should probably put a warning that unreleased cards should not be listed from now on until they prove to be broken.

The main reason I don't find Kozmo Farmgirl to qualify was because while extremely powerful, what ended up breaking Kozmos was Dark Destroyer. At its 2015 peak, the deck was heavily based around it to the point they splashed Escape from the Dark Dimension and Allure of Darkness to easily special summon it. However, on the context of November 2015, Kozmo Farmgirl was facing off against what was known as Proto Pepe and Burning Abyss, and that lasted until January 2016 when Monarch and full Power Pepe were released, meaning that Kozmo's "reign of terror" lasted as little as one month and a half while needing to share the top spot with many other decks. And then Farmgirl ended up being powercreeped by Tincan to the point that it would only be used at 1 copy by most Kozmo decks. Farmgirl wasn't what got Emergency Teleport limited - it was Tincan.

Taking into account all that context, one can see that while powerful, Kozmo Farmgirl wasn't what made Kozmo broken - after all, the deck had Forerunner for a while yet was hardly topping - but instead it was Dark Destroyer.

Also edited the Duel Monsters and GX folders. Will edit the 5d's and Zexal folder tomorrow - I think I'm going to need to make an errata folder for the cards that already received their errata in TCG.

I've been thinking about the errataed section idea too, either as its own folder or a subsection of the banned folder.

Also, I'm gonna leave the following cards for things that aren't currently on this list but deserve to be and that I may or may not take to adding at a later date (if not banned, I'll explain why).

Banned cards: ,Performage Damage Juggler ,Performage Plushfire ,Last Will ,Fishborg Blaster ,Shurit, Strategist of the Nekroz

GX era: Gladiator Beast (Won world championships in 2008, came in second in 2009, and got Bestiari limited for years).

Arc-V era: Burning Abyss (singlehandedly got Tour Guide Limited as well as later seeing Graff, Cir, and Beatrice too. Also Dante being limited in the OCG)

Made the clean-up of the 5d's and Zexal folders. I will follow-up with Arc-V in the next days and add the stuff I'm missing. I think that archetype-based monsters such as Damage Juggler, Plushfire and Shurit should be on their archetype folder, as without context it's hard to explain why they're broken.

I agree with the rest of your choices and I will add them later. Gladiator Beast and Burning Abyss deserve their spot, and to be honest I don't know why Last Will and Fishborg Blaster aren't on the banned folder already. When I finish with the Arc-V folder and the additions we have already mentioned I will add the errata folder. I'm missing some stuff; what I can remember is Dewloren and Dandylion. Also Chaos Sorcerer is missing, I think.

Now I remember I ended up deleting the Six Samurai folder in order to clean-it up; I will add it again on my next edition.

I can explain the reason for Last Will and Fishborg not being listed yet, and that's because I'm lazy. Then again, I've contributed a lot to this page, so I don't feel too guilty. And Chaos Sorcerer was indeed banned, though there's little that can be said about it besides weaker version of Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning.

I might get around to adding some more stuff tomorrow myself, but you've done a solid job yourself so far.

Already finished almost everything. Now I think I'm only missing some stuff the Zexal era (HAT, namely the Artifact component) and Mermails/Atlanteans. I think that at this point I'm only missing specific cards such as Chaos Sorcerer and Solemn Judgment. I would like to add a list of currently Limited cards because there's a variety of reasons for their Limitations and in the case of stuff like Dark Hole, Raigeki and Bottomless Trap Hole the reason for their limitations were largely non-format dependent (and everybody knows that while they may not be that gamebreaking compared to other stuff they defined the game for years to come). Maybe I will get to work on it on some of the following days. I'm also missing the Errata folder and like I said, some single stuff I will get to work with in some days. I've been working on this stuff for about 6 hours today so if someone can help me to deal with the red links, the capitalization mistakes and add links to the wikia for the cards that are missing it it would be great.

Also something I forgot to add on my previous editions; repeating the effect of the card on this article while also linking to the written effect on the wikia is extremely unneccesary and only clogs space. So I'll try and get those examples and edit them so that they don't end up wasting space on the page.

From now on, I think this page should only have activity after the release of banlists and if someone wants to add something else that's not on the banlist, it should be discussed here before. I also find semi-limit examples (that don't have a counterpart on the OCG or are the sole hit to the relevant stuff) to be largely problematic as they tend to exaggerate the brokenness of the card/deck at hand, so I think those should be also discussed here before trying to add them (as the Union Hangar thing for example: good deck but powercreeped a few months later and only receiving a slap in the wrist after it was no longer good).

I'd say leave it. Linking that way allows for a reader to know what the card looks like and verify what it does, while the in article description is so they don't necessarily need to click 20 different links just to know what each card does. If you still want to decrease the amount of text the page takes up, maybe a note containing the card's effect would suffice. Demonstration:

• Yado Karu ^Effect When this card is changed from Attack Position to Defense Position, you can place any number of cards from your hand at the bottom of your Deck in any order you desire. (Insert explanation for why card is broken here).

Obviously, Yado Karu is never ever going to be on this list, but this template could go a long way towards trimming the page down.

And don't worry, I got you covered on fixing errors and such.

Oh god, the irony after this; Grandsoil (and Emeral to a lesser extent) ended up banned because of the Firewall loop.

I'd say so.

I think the mere fact the Banlist exists should be explanation enough as to why specific cards are on there, as well as the fact that it changes every few months. Most of the cards on that list have explanations within the era folders, so it seems a little redundant to put every card from the banlist into the page, especially with new banlists coming out soon.

I would vote no to them having their own segment.