Well, clearly, you don't understand the concept of Sacred Hospitality or how much great Gods and spirits hate it when foolish mortals tamper with their laws. In this AU fic, spirits get more of a say, and real-life consequences WILL take their toll.

What ticks me off is that Aang knows about guest-right. Aang understands it. And yet, never bothered to explain any of this beforehand while traveling with his friends. They're the ones he's around with 24/7. Sure, Toph and Sokka may have had to keep many secrets close to their chests (which I hate, but understand why), but that doesn't mean that Aang can't tell them about the ways of his people. And while there isn't much about the Temple Air Nomads that the people of the other Nations knows about, it's not a secret. Little prick can't seem to share information about his people to his friends.

If Aang knows that he violated one of his own people's customs...I wonder. Gyatso should have taught Aang about Tengri, their patron Spirit, and Tao even told him about the Autumn Lord. Agni, Tui and La I can understand if they withdrew their protection of the Avatar. But Tengri? I really don't want to know what the Air Nomads' proud Spirit can do...

For starters myrrith it is well establish embers is a =For a Want of Nail fic=,

Second did you read the fic? A)"In a way, I must say I am grateful. With you as a declared foe of the young lord, the rest of his domain will simply treat you as an enemy." declared foe, I have no idea how you interpret foe but in my books declared foe isn't that bad lots more type are much worse such as vendetta see chapter 38. "A man does not live under the same sky as his father's..." (most likely killer)

B)"If he demands to be treated as an Air Monk, then I will treat him as they would for his crime." & "Aang. He doesn't have the right to do that. I know what you did, but he's not a Temple Elder, he can't-" "No." Aang swallowed hard, and cleared his throat, not even trying to stand. "He's right. He has every right to do... what he just did." Whatever Zuko did it was a privilege that not only temple childs or Temple Elder share, but anyone see "If you welcome someone to your camp, they're under your protection," Aang said quietly. "If they... do something you don't like... you're supposed to tell them to get out of camp before you do anything else. And - I didn't." this means it is a very likely to the modern equivalent to blacklisting, a personal thing, what Fire Sage Shiyu meant was "an enemy of a lord of a domain would be, an enemy to the people under his domain".

Thirdly, I am way more curious on how Fire Sage Shiyu would fit in gaang social wise, Katara would treat him as tribe elder, but Aang whom she declared as Kin doesn't like him, and thinks on whole Fire Nations manipulations are wrong but doesn't see what wrong with when he does the manipulation himself. See chapter 60 deshi "That doesn't make sense. How can it be wrong to keep people from getting hurt?". Sokka and Fire Sage Shiyu interactions would be gold, honestly I can imagine them just got caught up without noticing using high court and have the whole gaang stare at them. Leaving Fire Shiyu even more suspicious of Sokka thinking he is some sort of white lotus plant. And frankly staying the hell away from Toph who names Iroh as Uncle. Aang would be cautiously optimistic I think in his dealing with Fire Sage Shiyu.

That said I like the shunned formal verse. "I do not hear you. I do not see you," Zuko went on, every word like a tolling bell. "Your words are the stifling breeze. Your presence is empty air. I turn my face away." Stifling breeze, Your words carry nothing, which I think for airbenders means quite a lot, empty air that is harder to interpret literally empty air is vacuum, lack of air, I think in air bending mentality it is an insult rather an imply action.

@cetraskies I think the reasons that Aang does not talk about his people are these: a) evryone Aang knew before the Iceberg also knew so no one talked about it, b) it is painful to think about and c) he is a twelve year old child he probable just forgot to tell them.

I've read the fic from the very beginning. Even reread some chapters when there was something I needed to understand better.

A) While having enemies is a bad thing, it is far better to have an honest enemy (one where you clearly know the rules and boundaries set between you and said foe) than one who claims to be a friend or ally. Enemies at least you will know that they will attack you and hurt you and do things you would expect of them to do. Friends? You would not expect them to back stab you, lie to you, or push you off a cliff "accidentally". To be hurt by a friend or ally, to be betrayed by one, can be a great tragedy because friends are meant to help you and protect you.

B) Zuko/Kuzon has some knowledge and understanding about the Temple airbenders' ways, which Aang shared with him (in the past). Aang himself admitted in that very quote you took that he as a host made a huge breach in guest-right that is so fundamental to his people's ways. Anyways, do you honestly think that hospitality ISN'T just as important in the other Nations? This is the world where Spirits rule. Hospitality is practically the law of the land, not just the Temple Air Nomads'. Zuko had offered his help to find a firebending teacher for Aang, and Aang accepted. If he knew that he was the host meant to protect his guest, then you should know that what Zuko did isn't unfair. From chapter 48: "...I'm an airbender. I'm a monk. That's who I am. That's who I want to be. I don't want to be like you. I don't want to be like any of you!" The latest chapter Zuko highlights how much the Avatar does not think or feel himself bound to any of the other Nations' ways, and responded in such a way that is very much Temple Air Monk, just the way of Aang's people. Aang is a monk, and he got just treatment AS a monk of the Temple Air Nomads. If you're so concerned about Aang being bullied, then worry about what the Great Spirits have in store for him. They're the ones who have it in for the Avatar, and it's not only Fire who carries a grudge.

Third, well, finally, something of actual intellectual interest. You seem to think that Fire Sage Shiyu has accepted Aang's request for a firebending teacher. Before, I used to think that Shiyu was perfect for Aang, seeing as how Shiyu honestly believes that serving the Avatar is the Fire Sages' duty. He helped Aang, Katara and Sokka, after all. Now, one needs to consider Shiyu's loyalties. Even if Shiyu believes that serving the Avatar is his duty, and is a great and noble cause, he is first and foremost a Priest of Agni. The Spirit of the Sun himself has withdrawn his protection from the Avatar, resulting in the unfortunate meeting with the kanaloa, a lesser but no less formidable spirit of not just FIRE, but WATER. Where does Shiyu's power come from? Where does he get his authority? Chapter 81: "I am a Fire Sage, not a soldier. If Avatar Aang truly means to abolish Kyoshi's decree... I believe I must meditate on this." Shiyu said he'd think about it. Meaning he's going to have to talk to his boss and see if it's really alright if he can really serve two masters. It's not fair for Shiyu to have to be torn in his loyalties, especially, to some kid who thinks he should get special treatment when his actions and words conflict and present him as someone with no honor.

Those four sentences were very ominous. Very appropriate. I liked it. It suited the grim tone of the situation. Indeed, "One must be cruel to be kind".

I apologize, mmsbddvr, I thought you were myrrith, so I replied in kind.

I do so enjoy delving into the deeper implications of the actions and words of other cultures. As well as I mean what I have posted above. We don't know yet IF Shiyu will accept Aang as his firebending student. After all that's been said and done, Shiyu has to be able to weigh Aang's actions and words with that of his own patron Spirit. While I mostly agree with you that Shiyu may well accept anyways, because he's a good man and he's very agreeable to helping the Avatar, it's not as simple as it was before. It's not like Shiyu is another one of the Avatar's supporters. Shiyu has his own well-being to think of if he's going to get through with this war.

Interesting how you interpret Zuko's actions and words in accordance with the Temple airbenders' teachings. It is a "privilege" that only the Air Nomad Elders can grant? Then the other three Nations must see hospitality as a "right".

Another interesting question— Katara says she only knew how to get water out of air because of Hama, but Zuko's aunt knows how to do it. Is it a Women's Secret type thing (which would make sense, since Hama's harm could be a flip side of healing) or is Amaya more awesome than she knows?

It's not like shunning is something introduced for this— Aang mentioned earlier how if you pissed off folks on the ground, they'd tell you to leave and never come back; he's also mentioned that folks acting like you don't exist is a scary thing, when he found out that Katara chose to be banished with him.

As shunning goes, Shiyu's interpretation is pretty mild. It gets lifted when your actions match your words.

It's also somewhat fitting because it's a mixed-up version of the Series Cannon part where Zuko burnt Toph's feet— mixed up because everybody meant well, and Toph wasn't invited, but he still got punished for the harm done.

...Azula's going to end up a major power post-war, isn't she? Because she turned on her father when she still thinks he's only going to wipe out the Water Tribes, people that she has clearly stated that she hates and loves the thought of butchering - because she thinks he's insane for actually trying to do it. One-hundred percent Pragmatic Villainy.

She's going to be the friggin' nuke-waving Nikita Khrushchev of the Vathara!Avatar-verse. Everyone knows that she's a vicious maniac, but the other Fire Nations will put up with her because she's just this side of invincible, and the other three nations will put up with her because they can tell she's smart enough not to start a war she can't win(though it's going to be one-hundred percent Cold War, given that they all know that she will kill and eat them if she ever thinks she can get away with it). "Azula, tear down this wall!" "Make me, you bear-hugging bookworm!"

So what's going to happen when Vathara's beloved pragmatic sociopaths realize that Ozai is going to Kill Em All? That he fully intends to incinerate every single living person on the planet who isn't one-hundred percent loyal to him and him alone? How will the world respond to a post-Comet Fire Nations that tried to murder them all? The big reason you could buy a peaceful resolution in canon is because Fire Lord Zuko ate a metric ton of crow for his actions under Ozai. Here, he's still an arrogant, brain damaged prick, albeit a smart one like his sister.

...and I just answered my own question. Screwed up as he is, he's marginally nicer than the cast-iron bitch who's going to be one of the most powerful post-war Fire leaders. And thus he'll be the jerkass alternative to his vicious genius sister. The Francisco Franco to Azula's Khrushchev. Now I know why Vathara isn't interested in Korra - her post-war Avatarverse is going to be Metal Gear, not Doc Savage.

The only bright note I can see is that Aang is praising Katara as much as she usually does him. Words are good. Cute blushing!

Though I'm still wondering how the Water Tribes and Earth Kingdoms will handle the Fire Nations having every bending discipline at their disposal as opposed to their own single element - Dragon's Wings and other colonies having Earthbenders as citizens, Byakko having not only emigration-proof waterbenders but the only trained airbenders. I'm searching for a metaphor here; Cold War Russia having somehow claimed part of America's grain belt? Or China some of Russia's mines? And as for airbending, Japan having the only remaining, what - the only weather-controlling Druids in the world?

Back in Chapter 6, Zuko poses the question as it being unfair for the other nations to demand their benders back, because they're Fire Nation citizens - "his" people. I'm starting to hate that concept - he may mean "under his protection", but wouldn't unethical lords(or the other nations for that manner) see it like Southern plantation owners not wanting to give up uniquely talented slaves? Controlling benders not of your own element is a pretty big advantage, especially as due to the unique circumstances of the war, the Fire Nation is the only nation that has it. The Water Tribes don't have Earthbenders, nor do the Earth Kingdoms have Waterbenders, and most believe all the Airbenders to be gone. In global economics, it's a bit like the Fire Nation has laid violent claim to massive amounts of the world's oil and steel - and to stretch the airbending monopoly metaphor, 99%+ of the uranium. While insisting that nuclear physics is a failed science.

Canon dealt with all of that by actually founding a fifth nation for those who were more than one element. Vathara's 'verse has most of those individuals as spoils of war.

Kalaong, didn't you read the part where Hakoda and Shiyu were talking about how the other domains of the Fire islands must be loyal to the Fire Lord, but not necessarily to his heir? Azula may or may NOT become the next leader of the Fire Nation...depending IF there will be a united Fire Nation after the Comet hits. The ones in Court who supported Azula are now in a tight spot. With Ozai's favored child and heir out of the running, who will inherit after him? For sure, Ozai has discarded his daughter now that she has proven herself as treacherous as Iroh and Ursa, so how could Azula inherit anything? The clan leaders of the Fire domains are likely to get in contact with each other to form some sort of alliance to ensure their survival after Ozai's fall. Azula? She can burn in Koh's ninth circle of the Spirit World. Zuko? Who's Zuko to them, anyways? Just some exile no one cares about anymore, no more likely to come back and trouble them. With no more heirs following the Dragon Throne, the Fire Isles can go back to what they were before.

You underestimate Earth King Kuei. Seriously, don't. If Azula were ever to try to "take back" Ba Sing Se in some fleeting attempt to reassert her power, she would have to bargain with his Dai Li and other many advisors about for personal arrangements regarding the future...IF they let her, if Azula can get past the guards, both seen and unseen, if Kuei has the time and the interest (if he has any, at all). Really, it's a joke. Everyone knows that only one person can rule over the spirits of Ba Sing Se, and it is not and never will be Azula.

Haha, I love the way you forget about the other Air Nomads in the world. Let me remind you that the Fire Nation is not the only place that has benders of every element. The Earth Kingdom harbors all five powers in its lands: Water, Earth, Fire, Air AND Spirit. Ba Sing Se has Fire, Water way before pre-Fire Nation Conquest, too, if you are able to read between the lines in one of the previous chapters of this fic. The Touzaikaze came to the Earth King to propose alliance, and frankly, they don't seem very intimidated of the Fire Nation. They aren't tainted, nor are they the Earth King's slaves. The Eastern waterbenders, the Foggy Swampbenders, the Touzaikaze, Fire refugees of Ba Sing Se, and whoever that has yet to be revealed later are Earth King Kuei's people. They are under HIS protection. I highly doubt that Kuei is going to send the Kyoshi Island waterbenders and Foggy Swamp Tribe (or the waterbenders of his city) back to their supposed homeland, nor the Fire refugees to the Fire Nation should these Nations even bother to be concerned about "their benders" in a foreign land.

Like the Fire refugees that stayed with Kuei benders from the fire nation would be free to leave. Though it's a moot point, the Earth Kingdom DOES have Water, Fire, and Airbenders. From the GFS, the Refugee's and the Desert Nomads. All trained, it's the watertribe that lacks other benders, but what Fire or Earthbender in their right mind would live at the poles?

They could be in the swamps though, water benders use the water in the plants, earth benders can use the mud clinging tp the plants for basically the same thing, and air benders can use the air to make the swamp seem more active than it is by shacking leaves and other things.

Kalaong: Your claim that Byakko has the only trained airbenders in the Fire Nation is refuted by a closer reading of Embers. Ty Lee experiences a case of Remembered I Could Fly, in Ch. 36, which implies that the airbenders among the onmitsu are trained, even if they don't necessarily remember they can bend.

myrrith Actually brought up a point I don't think anyone has addressed yet and that is the Northern Water Tribe isn't north enough to have Polar Days. This is I believe one of or a combination of two things A) Katara doesn't know that. Yes she was there at one point but she (and Sokka) were both so busy it may be something they didn't realize or pay attention to. and B) The Northern Water Tribe does have Polar Nights/Days only not to the same extent of the Southern Water Tribe. The note is at the bottom of chapter 23 and the author does not say the Northern Water Tribes do not have them... they just have them to a lesser extent

Well, we're almost to the biggest point I want answered; Zuko knows his dad plans on wiping out the Northern Water Tribe, he just thinks that it's Somebody Elses Problem because They have the Avatar, he considers the Avatar an enemy of his (new) people and, right - his dad plans on hitting his domain as a warm-up.

What Happens when Zuko-Sue and the Zuklan find out that the entire plan is to wipe out all non-Ozaiist life on the planet?

And how will the other Nations feel when they realize Zuko only gave a sliver of help after his domain was directly threatened?

Lady Shinigami and myrrith: What Aang says is, "A fortress won't help [Dragons' Wings]... Just like the polar night won't help the Northern Water Tribe. Not if Ozai attacks with the Comet behind him." Given that Dragons' Wings doesn't have a fortress, I took that line as meaning, "even if they had a polar night during the planned invasion, it wouldn't help." Further, Aang has repeatedly stated he has to defeat Ozai before the summer solstice, before the comet arrives, so we know that it is currently summer there, and they wouldn't be having polar night anyways.

Kalaong: "His dad intends on hitting his domain as a warm-up" - Frankly, I would consider that more than ample reason to see the planned invasion of the Northern Water Tribe as Somebody Elses Problem. Specifically because if Ozai attacks Dragons' Wings, Zuko's domain will be fighting the same forces that Ozai intends to invade the North with. And he will thus be contributing towards the defense of the North, specifically because his domain was directly threatened. But Dragons' Wings is a newly established domain which needs to first ensure its own survival. Zuko is doing his best to be a responsible lord. It's not likely that he's going to lead his men, and however many women, off into battle, before the crops are in and he's certain his domain can stand on its own two feet for however long he's away.

Okay, but why is this the first time in the entire fic Vathara didn't make Azula and Zuko fully aware of the entire plot?

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"If Ozai is planning to take out the North Pole - okay, sure, fine, you take out the Northern Water Tribe. There's Katara and Swampbenders and Kyoshi Island waterbenders and who knows who else is out there. All Ozai's big plan is going to do is wipe out the one bunch of waterbenders who weren't in the war. It's going to be one big mess, Azula will have to pick up the pieces, and she's got a hundred years of history and a whole bunch of onmitsu telling her wiping out a whole nation doesn't work. She's going to get a Water Tribe Avatar dumped on her. A ticked-off Water Tribe Avatar. Nobody backstabs Crazy Blue Fire like that and gets away with it."

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As in, why don't the Fire Sues(who up to this point have always been smarter than everyone else combined) see the canonical solution to the above - how an Omnicidal Maniac like Ozai would Cut that Knot - kill everyone else on the planet!

Aoife Moran I agree with that interpretation. I was speaking of Katara's comment that the Northern Water would be attacked during summer and that the Sun wouldn't go down for weeks. myrrith wrote "Oh and did anyone else find the mention of a polar day when it had actually been explicitly explained that the Northern Water Tribe isn't close enough for a polar night earlier in the fic?" I was contesting that as it was said that Polar Days/Nights do not have as Much of an affect on the Northern Water tribes, not that they had none.

Kalaong: You seem to be forgetting that Zuko and Azula have been in the thick of things for the majority of the fic, are literaly alive due to the fact they can predict what others might do and that there were things they still did not know (example for Zuko- Shidan and Langxue existence, Azula-Airbenders in the Fire Nation, Makoto) Also Ozai is their Father. They know he is crazy but it's one thing to know he will try to eradicate an enemy nation (even if they know it won't work the way he supposedly intends) and another to see that he intends to destroy the world.

Except all of their insane plans revolve around Cutting The Knot, and it's been pointed out repeatedly that they inherited that capability from previous Fire Lords:

Target in fortified city? Infiltrate through freezing water.

Mile-high wall never penetrated before? Beat the shit out of the most dangerous hand-to-hand fighters in the world, steal their clothes, then subvert their intelligence service all by your lonesome.

The enemy of your enemy about to jump headfirst into a lethal trap because you were too autistic to realize they were going to do it? Manipulate your enemy into fighting them outside of that trap.

Enemies attacking your gate en masse? Sucker them into a canyon full of flammable gas and barbeque them all.

In light of the former especially, why not: If killing off a nation won't stop the entire world from endlessly resisting your Might Makes Right conquest? KILL THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Also, Zuko already knows that, "Roku said (Aang) had to defeat the Fire Lord before the end of summer. Before Sozin's Comet came. Or there wouldn't be anything left to save."

And he's constantly searching out volcanoes and spirits and conspiracies to fight, refusing to acknowledge The War Is Wrong and might be the thing that kills everyone.

Wish I could project a curse into Vathara!Zuko's mind and give him tinnitus that says nothing but "The War Is Wrong" over and over again endlessly...

"The enemy of your enemy about to jump headfirst into a lethal trap because you were too autistic to realize they were going to do it?" - Zuko was raised at court. The Fire Lord's court. Where backstabbing and treachery were common. When you grow up in a twisted environment like that, it screws up your thinking, and your entire mindset. People judge 'normal' by their selves, and their surroundings. To Zuko, it was normal, and completely logical, that the caldera would be defended. His failure to realize that the Water Tribe and Team Avatar would not see it that way is a product of his upbringing. Just as Aang doesn't see how people can hunt and kill, Zuko doesn't understand how it is possible to NOT do that. It's the same situation as with Shidan, when asked why his people must be homicidal maniacs - that is what dragons are, at their core, they are predators and hunters, and to be otherwise, for dragons, and for those of the Fire Nation with dragon blood, is impossible.

"And [Zuko's] constantly... refusing to acknowledge The War Is Wrong..." - I disagree. Zuko knows that it is wrong. But just because it's wrong doesn't mean that it's not HIS FATHER who started it. And for all Ozai's flaws, for all that Zuko KNOWS that the man is messed up, evil, a dark dragon, [insert whatever name you want to call Ozai here], Zuko still wants his approval and love. Because Ozai is his father. And even if you KNOW your parents are horrible people, that does not make them any less your parents. Zuko freaked out over disrespecting Roku, his great-grandfather. How much more terrible, to him, would it be to disrespect a parent? To think of KILLING one? [see also: Zuko's conversation with Teo in chapter 61, for proof that for all Ozai's rather messed up, Zuko still loves him]

To put it simply, wouldn't Zuko, as a dragon, recognize the horrible brilliance in the "total genocide" plan, if HE put himself in the Fire Lord's shoes?

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We can all. Do. Horrible. Things. And we all tell ourselves afterward that we had to do them. That we didn't have any other options. But there's always another way." He looked at Aang. "Sometimes, there's just no choice we can live with."

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Not only would it ensure that no Avatar would ever threaten the Fire Nation with a hurricane ever again, but it would solve another of the Fire Nation's problems:

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I wish I could stop the war, Toph. I really wish I could. But I can't. Because you know what will happen if it stops? They'll come for us. The Earth Kingdom, the Water Tribes… you have no idea how much they hate us. They'll come.

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The other nations can't come hurt the Fire Nation for starting the War if they are all dead. Actually, I'm seriously surprised that Dragonboy hasn't thought of it himself. It just has the slight problem of being obscene... at least by human values.

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That's what sworn warriors of a great name do. And if any of them, especially a sworn bender, escapes an ambush that kills their lord - a sworn warrior doesn't surrender. He hides out, maybe for years, gets together a raiding party, and comes back. Hell, Toph, we have plays about it. The only way to take out a great name and have peace is to take out all their sworn with him.

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He just dismissed "total genocide" as an impossible plan because he never before considered that the entire war - and the Fire Lords' alliance with Makoto and the Face Stealer - might have been setting up the extermination of all non-Fire Nationals.

Oh My Fscking God... If Zuko discovers that exterminating the rest of the world is possible... might that bastard dragon make a deal with Ozai to LET IT HAPPEN?

Right.

Hang on.

You're telling me that you can see Zuko, the guy who broke loyalty to Ozai in order to save people running from Ozai, joining up with Ozai? In order to destroy the rest of the world, and all other styles of bending? When the entire point of the creation of Dragons' Wings was to create someplace where all the elements can coexist. In order to restore airbending to the world.

Right.

OK.

Keep telling yourself that.

Actually, given my sociopathic mental defects; yes, I can see him doing just that.

He hates Aang. He created Dragon's Wings to save his own ass, but it doesn't seem to be working out that well.

And killing the rest of the world would protect his domain from renegades like Fong.

It is obscene.

But it. Would. Work.

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At the ancient Phrygian capital of Gordium, Alexander "undid" the hitherto unsolvable Gordian Knot, a feat said to await the future "king of Asia". According to the story, Alexander proclaimed that it did not matter how the knot was undone and hacked it apart with his sword.

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And we all know how that story ended...

It would work, sure.

Except that it is incredibly out of character for Zuko as Vathara has characterized him. Because unlike Ozai, Zuko recognizes the need for all four elements, all the styles of bending. Zuko believes in a balance.

Those quotes you used earlier to support your interpretation were taken rather out of context.

The first ("We can all. Do. Horrible. Things...") was Zuko trying to explain to Aang why he had to defend Dragons' Wings. Yes, Zuko has no problem with lethal self-defense. But there is a difference between defending your domain, and attacking preemptively. Fire Nation philosophy is "the best defense is a good offense." But Zuko knows he can't manage a good offense without risking insane casualties, so he won't.

The second ("I wish I could stop the war...") - Zuko is verbalizing a wish, an impractical wish. If it were within his power to stop the war peacefully, he would, is what he's saying, which in and of itself refutes your argument that he would ally himself with Ozai. He can't, though, because it's not within his power, and because the Earth Kingdom and the Water Tribes will want revenge, and he will be unable to prevent it. Dragons' Wings, meanwhile, is NOT the Fire Nation. It is its own, autonomous domain. Some of its residents may be originally of the Fire Nation, but they have, in essence, seceded from it.

Your third quote ("That's what sworn warriors of a great name do...") - There's a vast difference between "sworn warriors of a great name" and "the entire bleeding WORLD". Vast. Like, a world of difference, alright? Sworn warriors are the several loyal soldiers attending a great name. For example, one might consider Lt. Teruko one of Zuko's sworn, just as Toph, Katara and Sokka are Aang's. Sworn warriors are NOT "the entire Earth Kingdom" or "all of the Water Tribes".

Please stop taking quotes vastly out of context, butchering their meanings and twisting them into things that conveniently fit your mis-characterizations of the author's interpretation of a given character in an alternate universe.

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Edit: Further, you continue to be projecting your own mentality and experiences onto Zuko, which I think is contributing to your mis-characterization of him.

So his brain is damaged enough he cannot communicate with nine out of ten non-dragonbloods without assistance, but not enough to see how total annihilation would serve his goals - not enough to see Ozai's endgame.

Now, that is an impressive point to hit. And you say he has no luck?

And it's already been said that the other bending styles exist within the Fire Nation, so they wouldn't really be wiped out - just brought under proper governance. Call it a regime change.

The key problem - Ozai being crazy - requires an answer I've never seen in canon. Zuko's been gone for years, and one of the watchwords of feudalism is "An heir and a spare." Why hasn't Ozai knocked out a third heir yet? Unless said otherwise, he can't - meaning if Zuko and/or Azula learned to shut up and do as he tells them to(no matter how impossible), he'd accept them back. He did in canon.

It's all obscene. And it would all work. All they need to do is stop pretending to be human.

Your continued assertion that Zuko's inability to understand others is a sign of brain trauma, mental illness and etc. baffles me. First, part of the inability to understand is due to differences in mentality because of his culture, and his upbringing. Zuko seeing plots everywhere and not realizing that some/most people DON'T isn't much different from someone who's grown up wealthy and sheltered being unable to understand/imagine life in poverty. Or, say, Aang being unable to understand that the Water Tribe views revenge as necessary, and sometimes, you've got to do something about Those Not Named. For those problems that aren't a manifestation of cultural dissonance/Zuko's screwy upbringing... Zuko knows he has problems. He is actively working to resolve those problems.

But how on Earth would total annihilation serve Zuko's plans, when all he wants is peace, and balance between the elements?

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Edit: Watchwords of European feudalism, perhaps. Take into account that Embers is NOT set in a white-centric world, but rather in a world of Asian-culture Expys. Further, whether or not Ozai has another heir is EXACTLY what Azula tries to find out, when she has Ty Lee and Mai ask around about "gifts of cash and silk".

If all of a dragon's enemies are dead(It was so very calming, to be done with an enemy.) or too afraid of him to attack(it is our dangerousness, our peril to each other, that keeps each clan from another's throats.), then there is peace. That is how dragons define peace.

Balance? Dragons' Wings has Firebenders, Earthbenders, Waterbenders and a properly respectful and terrified colony of Airbenders right next to it. See, "balance".

I'm not saying he'll absolutely do it, I'm saying he would consider it if he knew it was an option.

And this steers away from: as a dragon, why doesn't Zuko see killing every single one of his enemies as one of the Fire Lord's plans? Hell, why was Shidan blind to it? "No one can rule over ashes", true. But no one is threatened by them, either.

"If all of a dragon's enemies are dead or too afraid of him to attack, then there is peace. That is how dragons define peace." [Citation Needed] (Citation of a direct quote from Embers, not taken out of context, that proves this, or can clearly be interpreted as leading to this conclusion. Lacking such a citation, I cannot help but ignore this statement, as it is unsupported by textual evidence.)

"Balance? Dragons' Wings has..." - That's not balance. That's people of the four nations, who don't quite fit into any 1, living together in one enclave. True balance would mean that none of the peoples of this world are wiped out, and the remaining ones preserved with their own cultures and autonomy.

"Why doesn't Zuko see killing every single one of his enemies as one of the Fire Lord's plans?" Because it's absurd. It's what Koh wants, certainly, if you define Koh's enemies as "all sentient life", but for a human/dragon to want that would be absolutely, utterly mad. And neither Zuko nor anyone reading carefully thinks Ozai would go out and kill all his enemies, aka the entirety of the world. Ozai wants to conquer the world. Conquering =/= extermination, unless you are a Dalek

You also seem to be missing another point.

Zuko is Not a full blooded dragon. (And I will say I think how you interpret dragons on a whole is a little off) Zuko is a dragon-child and unlike his dragon child ancestors he is not the product of a dragon-child marrying a full blood dragon/human.

(If I'm off on these facts let me know. I'm pulling from memory) Sozin was a dragon-child half human half dragon he married Makoto a full blooded dragon

Azulon Three quarters dragon married Ilah a full blooded human

Iroh roughly one third dragon child Ozai roughly one third dragon child married Ursla a dragon child who was half and half

Zuko/Azula a mishmash of dragon and human because they inherited from Both sides of the family. More dragon in certain ways more human in others. They are genetically messed up.

So back to the point Zuko is not a dragon. He is a messed up hybrid due to genetics that was not helped by upbringing. Further what sentient being in it's right mind thinks killing everything is the correct and immediate response?

(Citation of a direct quote from Embers, not taken out of context, that proves this, or can clearly be interpreted as leading to this conclusion. Lacking such a citation, I cannot help but ignore this statement, as it is unsupported by textual evidence.)

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If all of a dragon's enemies are dead(It was so very calming, to be done with an enemy.) or too afraid of him to attack(it is our dangerousness, our peril to each other, that keeps each clan from another's throats.), then there is peace.

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Further what sentient being in it's right mind thinks killing everything is the correct and immediate response?

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...No sentient being, not really. But any being which depends too much on instinct?

...There is no "Balance of Nature". The only thing stopping any given form of life from killing and eating everything else around it is inherent resistance to being eaten. Why do you insist it's absurd?

Also, Zuko was told specifically that Ozai is the Big Bad - Roku to Aang to him:

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Roku's warning: Listen carefully. Sozin's Comet will return by the end of the summer. And Fire Lord Ozai will use its power to finish the war once and for all. If he succeeds, even the Avatar won't be able to restore balance to the world. Aang, you must defeat the Fire Lord before the comet arrives.

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Aang's repetition: Roku said I had to defeat the Fire Lord before the end of summer. Before Sozin's Comet came. Or there wouldn't be anything left to save.

---

Zuko's had it spelled out to him. If Ozai is still in charge of the Fire Nation when the comet comes, Everybody Dies. And he still doesn't understand that his father plans to Kill Everyone?

...Ben is Glory? You mean Ben and Glory... Have a connection?

;;eyeroll;; To actually address the points made by Lady Shinigami and Aoife Moran: Yes. Precisely. Zuko's not getting involved with actually stopping the war, he's got the much bigger issue of stopping Koh from destroying humanity on his plate. Ending the war won't matter a bit if humanity bites the dust because of a nuclear winter via volcano eruption.

I did like that the invasion by Ozai at the comet was changed from the Earth Kingdom to the NWT. Given that the North is weakened from repelling the fleet after Koizilla, it makes much more tactical sense to strike there, instead of the largest and most militarized landmass on the map. Seriously, I scratched my head at that in canon, it seemed too much like "invading Russia in the winter" levels of dumb. And Aang finally accepting consequences for his screwup had me cheering. ;;wipes away imaginary tear;; He's finally growing up! It's so beautiful!

I can't wait to see how Azula as Wild Card affects the ending of the war and beyond, since she's obviously not heading for her canon breakdown. She and Zuko may be seeing a lot of refugees once Kyoshi's decree goes down...

Zuko's not getting involved with actually stopping the war, he's got the much bigger issue of stopping Koh from destroying humanity on his plate. Ending the war won't matter a bit if humanity bites the dust because of a nuclear winter via volcano eruption.

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And the point I'm trying to make; what makes you think the two aren't intimately connected?

...Hell, what if this is another part of the Big Plan - Ozai and Aang's big fight inches too close to Dragons' Wings... and Zuko helps kill Aang because he thinks he's back to screw things up again?

Aoife Moran and Lady Shinigami, if you were scroll down on the past discussions on this page, you will find that other posters have echoed a similar issue to Kalaong. While both your efforts are valiant and worthy of praise, please don't feel obliged to keep doing so.

blackflamerose, you think that Azula and her crew are going to stay at Dragons' Wings? Zuko knows better than to let her anywhere near him or his people. Just because she's a bit more sane now doesn't mean she won't do something to sabotage him or his domain later. She may not be on Ozai's side anymore, but that doesn't mean she'll immediately run to Zuko, not after all their history entails. Besides, why would the people of Dragons' Wings want the Fire Princess among them?

Kalaong, your posts make me think you're deliberately trying to provoke some sort of nonsensical argument out of one of us. If the shunning has hurt your feelings that much...why did Zuko go through all the trouble of finding Aang, freeing Appa and giving him back, healing him on the Ship arc, finding Aang a firebending teacher only to kill the one person he has so desperately tried to reach all this time? For the umpteenth time, Zuko wants Aang ALIVE. Reread chapter 81, where Zuko and Azula are discussing the merits of the current Avatar versus a Water Tribe Avatar.

...finding Aang, freeing Appa and giving him back, healing him on the Ship arc, finding Aang a firebending teacher...

---

He was forced into every single one of those acts because the alternative involved dead Fire Nationals. And this is all prior to discovering the Master Plan in its entirety - which hasn't happened yet. He has repeatedly stated that he has a distinctly nonhuman mentality, and we still don't know how he'll react to the annihilation plan; it's obscene, but - unlike the destruction of the Northern Water Tribe - it would ensure the safety of the Fire Nation for the foreseeable future.

BTW, why is everyone acting like the Comet is only good for a single attack? Halley's Comet was visible in broad daylight for four days. With an airship fleet and armies in place, that's more enough time to carry out a planetary apocalypse.

And with Azula's interference in the invasion, the Allies still don't know that fleet exists.

If the annihilation plan only hits the Northern Water Tribe, it'll give the everyone else a reason to completely wipe out the Fire Nation. If it hits everyone, that'll include Zuko's domain. He's not stupid enough to think that Dragon's Wings will be left alone simple because a member of the Fire Nation royal family is in charge. So, no he won't agree to it.

Ensuring the safety of the Fire Nation is well and good but the Fire Nation is no longer number one on Zuko's list of priorities. Dragon's Wings is.

Zuko helped Aang for the sake of his people and his uncle and maybe for Kuzon's memory but he isn't fond of him and from his perspective, Aang crossed the line. Knowing in your head that someone didn't mean to drop you on a insane man-eating monster is one thing. Knowing it emotionally is another. And Zuko/Kuzon knows that Aang violated something from Airbending culture and may have taken that the wrong way (he's Fire Nation, he doesn't count, so what applies to people doesn't apply to him)

I would imagine that how long Sozin's Comet lasts is well documented, considering what happened last time. So maybe it only lasts long enough for one attack? At any rate, Sokka plans on delaying the army long enough that they won't be able to reach the North Pole in time and...oh. This may wind up with the Earth Kingdom being attack like in canon, depending on what location the Fire Nation winds up at when the Comet arrives.

Also, the Allies SAW the Airships, remember?

"From his shaky breath, Sokka wanted to run himself. "If Momo was one of the Mechanist's war balloons? These would be Appas."

Huge massive war-balloony things up in the air, where she couldn't target them without help? Not fair."

And given what Sokka said right after, about how all they need is a plan to build more, it's not much of a stretch to figure out that the Airships will play a role so if the Mechanist is still with Hakoda, they better talk to him about what limitations the things have. They'll need his input as he is probably the best person qualified to figure out how fast the Airships can go and the best way to sabotage them..

Kalaong- people are acting like it's only good for one attack because they pay attention to things outside of their own caricatures of the story.

cetraskies- you have a good point about Azula at Dragon's Wings; Zuko is big on family, but never do things for only one reason.... Can we think of other reasons to have the newly exiled Fire Princess with an open invitation to come visit if she needs to?

Foxfier, besides 1) Azula owes Zuko, big time, I would think that 2) Azula will not take well to being betrayed by her own father (once she gets over the fact that yes, Ozai cares only for himself and will sell even his precious daughter and heir for power) and will plan to dethrone Ozai for the good of their Nation. A possible third reason would be if Azula needs temporary asylum, which Zuko could grant...depending on if he can discuss it with his people. Azula herself is proud, so asking her brother for help, admitting weakness, is not something that will be easy. Azula herself would have to have some pretty damn good reasons WHY she would go to a domain that is under the direct leadership of her brother, who was deemed incompetent and a failure by their father and herself so long before.

Shimmer712 brings up something interesting as well. The Earth Kingdom...the last time Azula was there she was planning on bringing Fire Sages to help deal with the spirits in the capital in order for her to rule there. Not that she's thinking of going there now, but if Azula were to actually be of help to the Earth King rather than wanting to oust him of his rightful throne...hehehe. Personal arrangements don't need to be made, then. She could very well ask for aslyum in Ba Sing Se, if she plays her cards right.

Foxfier: Is Azula officially exiled? I must have misread the relevant chapters then, because in my understanding, she's simply fled before Ozai could exile her. But if she IS an exile, then she too is outside the jurisdiction of Kyoshi's edict, and could potentially do something similar to what Zuko's done, and lead a domain not under the control of the Fire Lord.

Cetraskies: I did read some of the earlier discussions, but I figured that everyone deserves another chance to see reason. Evidently, some people will pass up every single chance offered.

Azula asking for asylum in Ba Sing Se would be interesting for several reasons, I think. Ba Sing Se is currently being occupied by Fire Nation forces. Azula would have to join Kuei and the remaining Fire Nation nationals/Dai Li in hiding. This would give us another take on the "Fire Nation great name hiding in Ba Sing Se" which we've already seen with Zuko and Iroh, although Azula being Azula, it would likely include more explosions. [Would Azula helping out with La Resistance and potentially fighting against Fire Nation soldiers be breaking loyalty?]

As well, Eshe and Amisi might see her presence as competition - she is, after all, rather spiritually strong, as are her companions. Ty Lee would also get the chance to talk airbending with the Touzaikaze, which could be cool.

Aoife Moran, your patience all but shames me.

Anyways, your understanding is quite correct. Remember when Mai told Azula about what Ozai said in High Court "He mentioned respect" - to Azula, as well as the readers, this implies how well Ozai thinks of his daughter's change of his plans. Mai's actions, however, have made me suspect that her vengeance against Azula has been brought out in full. Getting Azula out and away from the Fire Lord's influence in such a manner that she cannot ignore the consequences of her own actions proved to be brutal, but very efficient. We may not have received any further thoughts from Ozai on his daughter, but it is safe to say that Kotori, the Onmitsu who fought and fled from Azula's group, has made her report to her Elders as well as the Fire Lord. As far as both know, Ozai has been betrayed, and Azula knows her actions constitute a betrayal. She understands that it is best to flee the Caldera where she can retreat and regroup later, once she gets all her priorities in order.

So far, we have yet to see where Azula and her group will go for sanctuary. I would so love to have Azula and her two Dangerous Ladies reintroduce themselves to a throne-retaking King Kuei and his court, but realistically...it's probably not a good idea. Azula may have some fully-trained Dai Li and even Onmitsu with her, but being as calculating and pragmatic as she is, seeking out the Earth King and his Dai Li and other guardians on their home turf isn't very smart. The agents with her may be able to seek out the Earth King and other Dai Li...IF they want to be found. And if they are, well. Remember those wonderful little sand-turned-glass pit traps that Amisi made? There are many more Dai Li on Kuei's side, I would think, and I bet none too fond of the fact that some of their own turned traitor for some foreign royal-turned-fugitive. There's also the fact that Azula made herself ruler of Ba Sing Se in a way that can be considered illegitimate. I think Azula would have better luck at the Northern Air Temple.

There would be no issue with Eshe or Amisi. It's obvious amongst the Dai Li whom their King favors. Azula proffering her aid against her own soldiers? Another reason why I think Azula won't land in Ba Sing Se. I think I can see her taking some of the soldiers away from Ba Sing Se, but whether they see her as their leader is another issue.

Well, I think there are a few places/groups of people to whom we can more or less safely assume Azula shan't flee.

-the Gaang - it would be suicide, and Azula isn't nearly that stupid

-for the reasons you outlined earlier, the Earth King and co. is rather unlikely as well

-the Northern Water Tribe

-Teo's air temple (sorry, have forgotten which it is)

Perhaps Azula might seek refuge in Byakko? She knows, after all, that they only pay lip service to the Fire Lord, despite Kyoshi's edict, so where better to hide a rebellious heir? And with Hakoda's men now gone, it might not be as tense a situation....

As to the remark about my patience - I am frequently surrounded by multiple six-year olds. Compared to them, Kalaong is utterly calm and reasonable.

Are you a teacher, Aoife Moran? It sounds like you work in an elementary school. Don't flatter Kalaong, though.

I have thought about Byakko as well. Seeing as how Shidan actually truly cares about her, even likes her, Azula could go there. But then, Azula does not know that Kotori found out from Katara that Byakko has been betraying the Fire Lord presently. If Azula were to go there, she would be tracked by any of her father's spies and onmitsu and whoever else Ozai cares to bring about upon the treacherous domain of Byakko. It's more than obvious. And Azula knows very well that the Fire Lord knows that she and Shidan were in contact once.

I really think that Ember Island is the only safe haven for Azula and her crew now. It would be good for her to reflect on all that's happened so far.

I shall endeavor not to flatter Kalaong, in the future. Hir contributions to this thread, and previous ones, after all, resemble trolling more than constructive commentary.

You're right, though. Byakko is not the refuge it could potentially have been, given Katara's big mouth, Kotori's betrayal, and Ozai's paranoia. (Though honestly, given the level of intelligence and Genre Savviness that Azula's demonstrated, oughtn't she be able to sucessfully evade spies and onmitsu?)

If she truly is heading to Ember Island, though, which aspects of the show is Vathara going to keep? Azula awkwardly trying to flirt (paraphrased, "Your outfit is sharp. It could puncture the hull of a fire navy battleship. Because it's so sharp.")? The Ember Island Players? Sparky Sparky Boom Boom (Combustion) Man?

Aoifemoran-

Going off of the comment by the fire-sage; either he's playing a deeper game than I'd expect, or she's been informally exiled. If I had to take a guess, our dear author may have been reading into Catholic theology— you can be excommunicated, but there are some things that automatically excommunicate you. It is a a guess, though; Shiyu might have been thinking in shorthand again.

As to Azula fleeing before she could be exiled... I read it as more dark than that. I think Ozai would believe her enough of a threat that he would end that threat, rather than let her live; look at the damage she's done with no warning and just a tiny, induced-by-desperation nudge from her brother! The freaking Fire Nation SS has defectors working with her, as are some of the Earth Kingdom's secret police.....

Oooh, now I'm trying to picture Azula flirting with an extra dose of water in her soul... the biggest problem is figuring out who her target would be! Although she's still not really interested— she wanted to kill the supposed author of the pillow-poem in the Earth kingdom— she wouldn't be willing to be passed up by others....

Hear that, Neo Shiraku? I was right all along! Don't think I don't know you're lurking around, either!!

Back to the topic, Aoife Moran. Evading spies and onmitsu, Fire Lord Ozai has much more resources at his beck and call than Azula ever did, and remember that Azula got most of hers from him. I would think that, if there were spies at Ember Island, perhaps Ozai or someone else at court may hire Combustion Man to kill Azula and her group once her location is identified. The Ember Island Players...ugh. I hope that the author chooses not to do this, as the Sun Warriors were taken out, let us hope that stupid play doesn't happen. I think Vathara may replace it with something else, like the story of Ryuuko-hime or even some other Fire Nation myth/story/legend.

Perhaps while she's reflecting, Azula could muster up more forces and see if the other domains will help? I know it's rather idealistic to think they will want to help, but what do you think?

"Mile-high wall never penetrated before? Beat the shit out of the most dangerous hand-to-hand fighters in the world, steal their clothes, then subvert their intelligence service all by your lonesome."

Since when are the Kyoshi warrior's the most dangerous hand-to-hand fighter in the world? This is a world with Chi-blockers.

Other than that others have handled Kalaong well as he continues to not understand Zuko at all.

Cetraskies, what does any of this have to do with me? Sure, I commented on Kalaong's obvious idiocy, but there's a clear difference between youth and deliberate stupidity that you didn't seem to be able to get back then. Kalaong is stupid; he/she might very well be young, but above all he/she is being stupid.

Deliberately so, it seems. Irritating, yes, but I've long since learned to tune people like that out. They really don't add anything useful to a discussion.

Foxfier: your comparison of banishment with excommunication is an interesting one. However, how would you then reconcile Azula's implicit banishment with the fact that she is still in Fire Nation territory? Unless the terms of banishment vary from person to person, and it is only Zuko's banishment (so far) that bids him stay out of the Fire Nation?

As well, I neglected to consider the effect of the additional bit of water in her soul on any potential flirting Azula might get to. Recall, also, that the rage at the pillow poem's author was prior to her healing. With the water, which is family and community, Azula might be more inclined to notice the opposite sex. That said, given her reaction to Mai's allusion to sex when Azula mentioned gifts of cash and silk... I think Azula and Zuko both are similarly unready/uninterested in that sort of thing. Which is good, as Embers is not a [[Shipping Shipping Fic]].

cetraskies: the theory that it might be someone else at court hiring Combustion Man seems most plausible to me. Shiyu did, after all, mention various factions at court, each with their own most-desired candidate, and it would be quite logical for, say, someone who didn't want Azula near the throne to notice that she is no longer as favoured, and possibly lacking both the Fire Lord's blessing and protection, and therefore an easi target for an assassination.

True Metis: in my haste to refute the rest of Kalaong's points, I must have entirely missed that assertion. Thank you. (As well, I'm now imagining what chi-blocking Kyoshi Warriors might do, and Took A Level In Badass seems an insufficient description...)

Neo Shiraku: there is, in fact, a difference between youth and stupidity. Much like the discussion on which of those two Aang is, the debate about which quality Kalaong embodies is also quite divisive.

Edit: sorry for the double post; I'm posting from a mobile device.

Neo Shiraku, I called Kalaong for a troll in a discussion prior to this, and you said that that was not so. Like Aoife Moran before, I had thought that a reasonable explanation would settle things. I thought for sure that there had to be some validity to Kalaong's points, back when I was rather naive to this whole fic and I went to see this page. I admit that not all long-ish posts with half-assed historical inaccuracies and frequent bolded, italicized or capitalized words/sentences punctuated with exclamation points offer any sort of real insight into the minds of the characters of this story.

Now everyone, let's not fight! In a way, you're all like family to me. This fic has brought us together, and we should be discussing the story, not bash on some poor trite poster.

While scrolling the review page, I found one review that figuratively clubbed me in the head with a two by four. While it's been said that fire-healing was wiped out and that "Fire is Life" and that humans used to live as long as dragons, I was too stupid to put these things together in hand with the issue of the World-Spirit and healing. Let me know your thoughts, guys! As to the review, here:

newboy 5/13/13 . chapter 81 After reading this whole story, I realized something, Zuko is Agni's revenge against the world spirit that currently resides in Aang. It was the world spirit that cursed the human race so that they bno longer live as long as dragons, and sokka remebered a phase when he found out about that," fire is life." Basically the super long lives were connected to fire, which is the element most asocciated with life, and fire is linked to Agni. Basically agini had a lot of power and connection to living things due to humans long life, and than the world spirit in one stroke decimated that power by shortining the life span of humans, I can only imagine just how much that ticked agni off.

Eventually he started to move past it, the people of fire continued to develope, and both dragons who remebered the truth, and the fire healers who apparently had something to do originally with the extra long life span survived, than Kyoshi showed up and in a fit of rage use the WORLD SPIRITS power to decimate the lands of fire, destroy the fire healers, and forced all the people of fire to follow one single lineage chosen by the world spirits vessel. That was probably the absolute last straw for agni. So he sat back, and waited for things to get worse, and tried in his own way to help improve things as zuko suspected when he thought to himself about how this whole mess started, however things kept getting worse. Finally after kuzon died and decided to be reborn, that was when agni enacted his last backup plan, zuko. He chose zuko to be agni's knife. Originally he might have hoped that zuko would be fire lord and turn everything around for the people of fire, as he is probably the only person who could have ruled the fire nation and not have been completely crazy, however whenthe moon spirit tried to interfere and make zuko a water bender, agni realized that with all the opposition by both humans, the psirits, and the world spirit itself, zuko would never be fire lord, so he let zuko become a water spirit because that would be the last piece of the puzzle needed for agni to enact his ultimate plan, revenge on the world spirit.

It sounds crazy, but consider for a minute what zuko has been up to since the gained the ability to bend two elements, he has brought back fire healing so others can learn it, he also used amaya's lessons to master healing, and fire healing is something that the world spirit had tried to stamp out. Second zuko is gathering people from all four nations to live together as one, which is something that the world spirit, and its previous vessels drastically apposed. And now with how powerful zuko is getting, he might be the first to unravel the secret of using one's chi to live for thousands of years like the dragons, which is knowledge that the world spirit stamped out long ago. Finally because zuko's domain resides in one of the few volcanoes that could kill the world spirits vessel if the avatar got to close, there is no way that the world spirit could repeat history and stamp out the knowledge again, in short everything that the world spirit has tried to do is being undone, and with the volcano accepting zuko as its master, there is no way that the world spirit can interfere and stop this a second time. If that is not revenge, I do not know what is. This also explains why so many spirits are targeting zuko alone, despite the fact there are other members of sozins family that the spirits could pick on. Zuko is either knowingly or unkowingly opposing the world spirits wishes, that would make him the target of every other pirit that is loyal to the world spirit, which aside from agni is practically all of them. However considering how powerful zuko has gotten, ironically due to all the attempts the spirits have either directly or indirectly made on his life, the spirits are running out of options. Even the kanaloa would rather retreat than fight zuko face to face, and he seems to be one of the stronger spirits out there. Furthermore the world spirit cannot even attempt to deal with zuko personally because of his vessel not wanting to hurt zuko, and the fact that there are som many other problems it has to deal with, not to mention wo knows how powerful zuko will get. If this pattern continues, to please the world spirit, koh is going to have to go after zuko personally as no one else is left to try to handle it. Let me know if I am on the wrong track here.

Aoife Moran -

I believe the formal banishment said he could be killed if it wasn't lifted before he came back, not that he couldn't be there... that's the kind of rules-mongering that I would expect, honestly.

Foxfier: Well, if you're going to be killed for coming back, isn't it implicit that you can't come back? Your interpretation seems to me the sort of loopholes in Ozai's logic that Aang might find, but then, perhaps I simply have a more rigid way of thinking, and view an order as an order. Still, your interpretation of the terms of Zuko's, and potentially Azula's, banishment has merit.

As well, if Azula is banished, and consequently may be killed for remaining in the Fire Nation, why hasn't anyone tried to kill her/thought of killing her? (Aside from the fact that it'd be suicide for most, of course. Unless you suppose that'd be enough of a deterrent? Perhaps Combustion Man will be brought in for exactly this purpose...)

cetraskies: the rambling nature of the review, as well as its poor syntax and overall grammar made it rather difficult to understand. However, the main points, as I understood them, were these:

-fire is life, and consequently Agni and the dragons have something to do with the formerly long lifespans of humans

-the World Spirit somehow shortened the lives of humans and thus lessened Agni's power (although I don't think it was the World Spirit which did that, but rather its child, Koh, the embodiment of death. Vathara wrote that the world spirit was merely "not helping humans not die"[paraphrased], implying that it hadn't actively shortened anyone's lifespan on purpose)

-because Zuko is now ridiculously powerful (verging, perhaps, on a Game Breaker in some people's opinions) - a Domain Lord, a yaoren, and a healer - Koh will have to fight him himself. (Which... well, frankly, ought to be the Avatar's job, with Zuko and the yaoren merely assisting with that battle. After all, the Avatar is meant to handle the Great Spirits, and what is Koh if not one of them)

Aoife Moran, for sure, Zuko has quite a diverse set of skills. However, I never saw him as being super. As Uncle Ben in Spiderman once said, "With great power, comes great responsibility". All these great things that Zuko has is because he is responsible (he tries very hard to be), determined like hell, and is at heart an honorable young man. Being a double-bender? It means you get spirit-wounded to achieve that other element. Learning another element and a culture alien to your own is not easy, and most likely, not fun (at first). Healing takes time and patience, and is meant to be studied thoroughly through the eyes of a good teacher, which is hard to find. A Lord? Taking care of other people is HARD! There are consequences to having all these hefty titles. It's not enough just to have these power for the sake of power. Having all these responsibilities takes a toll on a person, no matter how much power they may wield.

I've always wondered what was so exceptional about fire-healing. Granting one a longer life-span? That is awesome. But what about the other elemental healing arts?

Note please that I did not say that Zuko being at Game Breaker levels of powerful was an opinion I shared - I do not, for all of the reasons you so kindly outlined above.

Concerning healing, I recall one of the characters, perhaps Amaya, mentioning that each element had their own specialty in terms of healing - earth was strongly linked to bones, air to breath, and so on. Perhaps life is merely fire's affinity, of sorts?

Ah, which chapter was this, Aoife Moran?

Healing is life-giving, isn't it? I don't see why fire has to be the one most associated with life. People need to breathe, too, right? The air-healers were the first to be taken out in Koh's plan, so they had to be something special themselves.

Chapter 32 has Katara's spirit-vision of the different sorts of healing, where the air-healer is described as "coaxing breaths deeper, longer"; 70 has Amaya confirming that "the scrolls say earth and bones are tightly linked". I believe there were a few other relevant segments, but I can't find them right now. (Damn ffn for not having a "read entire work" option like ao3)

All healers are special, fire healers are more special than others?

Fire gives its healers a distinct advantage over the others. Near immortality in the ancient past, that is. The other elements? Not so much, if you read chapter 56. Not that they don't like humans, because they did end up doing the same thing as Agni.

I'm curious as to the school of thought of the other three healing benders.

As far as I understood it, near-immortality was not a trait limited to the Fire Nation of the past. The first humans, according to Shidan's mind-tale, had ways of moving the energy within their own selves, like bending but not elemental, and it was this which had both enabled long lifespans and been lost. This ability is what Agni is trying to restore, and perhaps because of the internal style of firebending, fire is best suited to teaching it. (Though now I'm wondering, what would internal earth/airbending look like, if bloodbending is internal waterbending and firebending as taught in the army is internalized as well?)

Aoife Moran-

For you or I, going into the fire nation with a big "kill me at will" sign would mean we couldn't go back...for long. *smush*

However, the fic got started with looking at old laws, and that made me remember why Robin Hood was an "outlaw"— he was beyond the protection of laws, that is, he could be killed at will.

Thinking about that made me remember a management rule my mom taught me— always leave yourself lots of wiggle room. If "do not enter, or you can be killed at will" is what banishment means, then you always have the option of "not noticing" someone— or just ignoring them because it's to your advantage.

Agni has been mentioned as liking a good joke— the classic "no man of woman born" type word-trick would probably appeal.

It would be REALLY funny if Azula just counts on the way that she has...well... the attack me and it's death reputation and then runs into some professional assassins. *grin*

Oooh, thanks for clearing that up for me, Aoife Moran. I totally forgot about that. Right, spirit-bending was something that humans did; bending the four elements came later.

I'm glad I could stoke intellectual curiosity in you. Frankly, I never thought about the external/internal aspect too deeply. The healing arts made me think about their differing philosophies.

cetraskies: I don't know if what humans did was specifically spirit-bending. After all, Amaya and Kuei both are spirit benders, and we've had no sign of Agni being satisfied. So either it's an issue of not enough people knowing, or it wasn't spirit bending, but something else. Something similar, certainly.

Foxfier: Azula using her reputation as insurance of sorts would be amusing to read. That said, knowing that Azula, as Ozai, hates leaving those who might challenge her alive if she can help it (Long Feng, her threats to Quan and Min, the Fire Sage she and her ladies disposed of), how much sleep would she lose in relying on her reputation to keep her safe?

Re-reading... again... and this jumped out of chapter 9:

"Huojin." Amaya shook her head, still stunned. "It would be as if - as if I bent water out of lava. It exists. It is possible. But to do it…."

How long do you suppose it'll be until Katara does that? *grin*

Azula doesn't KNOW everyone who might challenge her, though— or they'd already be dead.

Foxfier: Well, in what situation might she need to? She already knows how to gather water from plants, from the air, even from people... And she always carries a waterskin.

You're right, though, about Azula and her enemies (although its interesting that even after Mai reclaimed her loyalty, Azula doesn't see her as an enemy... Perhaps the water in her soul makes her view Mai and Ty Lee as sort-of family? So even if she can't form bonds of loyalty, she can at least form those of community and family, which are close enough?)

Random thought; could you say that the key conflict in Embers is To Be Lawful Or Good? (Sane, pure-blooded)Humans tend to pick Good, and non-humans(spirits, dragons, psychic dolphins, hybrids, etc.) tend to pick Lawful. Thus, they tend to confuse the hell out of each other at best, and a great many now actively seek each others' annihilation.

That perspective now makes me(very) vaguely consider Zhao a Well Intentioned Extremist; "He was just... well, like a lot of madmen. Somewhat accurate view of the problem(spirits torturing and murdering humans for failing to return slight bows of the head), really insane view of the solution(kill all spirits)."

Kalaong: and now, at last, you begin to approach the nature of the conflict in Embers. While I wouldn't put it, necesseraliy, in terms of a conflict between what is good and what is lawful, the key point that you have made is that humans and sentient non-humans think /differently/.

They have different concepts of what is right, and what must take precedence to solve problems (what is good vs what is lawful, etc.)

The Fire Nation has a lot of dragon blood mixed up in it. As well, they are bound by Kyoshi's edict, delivered in the Avatar State - bound to comply with a spirit's wishes or die painfully. Thus, they are operating under a paradigm alien to most from the other nations, and one that may alienate readers as well.

Whether or not the conflict is a clearcut case of Good vs. Lawful, I cannot and will not say. But you have hit the nail quite squarely on the head with your realization that different groups of characters have vastly different mentalities and priorities, which frequently leads to conflict between them.

Perhaps re-reading Embers with this in mind will help you to resolve any other issues you may have had with the text?

If I hadn't known that humans and Spirits are different, I would say Kalaong discovered the profound.

Aoife Moran, perhaps the Lion-Turtle in canon did not know what the humans were able to do, and so coined the term "spirit-bending"? The answer may lie in Ba Sing Se and Kuei.

Azula fending off assassins using her reputation? Everyone in Ozai's court knows enough that the firebending prodigy isn't someone to take lightly, no matter how much disfavor she may be in. If Combustion Man does show up, maybe Azula will show some concern. Though, if Ozai decided to send Onmitsu after her...I know it's been said that they are not to leave the islands, but Azula has taken some Onmitsu with her. Would it be far-fetched for Ozai to countermand the order for Onmitsu to leave the Fire Nation? Or will he just leave it to Grandmother and her minions to strike down his former heir?

Not the Avatar State. This was the something worse at the Boiling Rock and Aang's guest right chickens coming home to roost. It would have been exponentially worse if Zuko had actually died.

Red-hot agony sluiced down her back, and she screamed.

"Aang?" Toph's jaw dropped, even as her heart leapt at that horrible scream. Why would Aang-?

That was going to earn him a face full of dirt later, Sokka just knew it. But Toph was already taking care of the important stuff - keeping Katara away from the kanaloa - and he didn't want its attention on her any more than it already was. And he definitely didn't want Aang's attention on her.

---

Though the next part may confirm you, blackflamerose.

---

If that was still Aang in there. At all.

Actually, right after the end of that quote,Sokka even says the kanaloa's grabbed Aang the way the sea serpent grabbed Katara. The eyes don't match.

Never thought I'd miss Avatar glowy-eyed scariness.

Aang's eyes were glowing now, all right. Glowing a blue as hot as Azula's fire, and twice as scary. "You dare try to tame my home. Oathbreaker! Liar!"

Oathbreaker? Liar? The Avatar State isn't saying that. That's the kanaloa talking, who could have only possessed Aang because Agni revoked his protection of the Avatar after he almost killed a guest.

Damn. It's every bit as jarring as Zuko getting one-shotted, though you're right, it's explained.

It looks like Azula is helping Zuko and the others doesn't it?

Also, I called it on the prison thing(just minutes before it was posted). Disloyalty is Death, so criminals in the Fire Nation are rare - especially ones that they're unwilling to execute. Boiling Rock is not only for holding those rare criminals, but for containing what happens when firebenders go insane.

The Kanaloa...an interesting spirit, I must say. Though I don't think Aang was the one who hurt Katara...not on purpose. This has just proven how terribly inexperienced Aang is in dealing with spirits. Because of his insufficient training, he was possessed by one. Yay! Suki! Azula and her crew must be here. Which means that yes, maybe there will be an Aang/Ty Lee heated debate on their different Ways, if she doesn't just choose to poke him in several different places on his body first. If she is able to recognize that Aang is without Agni's protection (or their patron Spirit Tengri's)...I shiver.

Wow, the anger of the Spirits made real. If the Kanaloa is the first, I shudder to think of what any other type of Spirit may be chasing the gAang now. Will Shiyu accept Aang as his student now?

The Kanaloa was able to possess the Avatar. Backtracking to the Siege of the North Pole, was Tui possessing Aang...or was Aang possessing Tui? Aang's inexperience really makes me wonder. Canon wise, it was a joint decision, but in this fic? What do you guys think?

The Kanaloa was pretty freaky. And it's related to Koh?

The Aang versus Ty Lee debate will be interesting. One question. I doubt Hakoda is just waiting around Byakko and Amak may have come with him so when the group meet up with them, will there be a Yamabushi? If so, it'll be a three-way debate. And I would imagine the Byakko airbenders resent Onmitsu for killing Kuzon.

Aang possessing Tui or the other way around? Maybe Aang meant to take control and took the reins so to speak, but couldn't handle the sheer power of Tui or his sheer rage at La's death. So he took control and then lost it, leaving neither in complete control, with Tui managing to get a hang of things at the end and pushing Aang out.

Spirits, yes, let there be a philosophical/moral debate/showdown between Aang and Ty Lee. I wish it will happen, but that depends on how willing Azula is on letting her favorite kunoichi/friend show her face to one who abused guest-right...

Ah. Which reminds me. How much do you guys want to bet that Shiyu, Suki, and the rest of Azula's group start backing away once they learn that little piece of information? At least the gAang will be safe from Azula and her entourage.

...then again, once I think it over, the implications will only make it even worse for the gAang. If Katara is able to get hurt, then Sokka and Toph are just in as much danger. I wonder if Suki is knowledgeable about spirits and guest-right.

Does anyone think that Zuko will realize that

A). Katara used to be completely safe from Avatar State temper tantrums and able to calm Aang down no matter the circumstance

B). Zuko took that ability away from her with that letter he sent in Chapter 31

...And Toph has witnessed both events, so if she told him, he'd believe it.

What will go through Zuko's mind?

But this wasn't an Avatar State tantrum. This was Aang letting the spirit hijack his body resulting in it attacking the person who froze its lake. And we haven't seen Aang go into the actual Avatar State so we don't know whether or not she still has this ability.

And Aang still adores Katara. Zuko's letter wouldn't have changed that.

There seems to be something deeper than "Aang adores Katara" involved in Katara's power over the Avatar State - It was pointed out in Chapter 75 that the World Spirit does not give a shit about humans.

---

Humans got wiped out? Then the World Spirit just wouldn't incarnate anymore. So what? Without humans around, there wouldn't be anyone the Avatar needed to mediate with the spirit world for. Humans managed to pull off a last-minute save and cool Koh off? Again, so what? Then the World Spirit would just keep on keeping on; and the Avatar would die, and return, and die, and return. Any way you sliced it, the World Spirit didn't have a polar dog in this fight. Heck, it was gaining from this. The humans who'd killed it were going through hell, and it could just sit back and watch.

---

And despite all of that, Katara could calm it, threatening her could draw its ire, and it wouldn't hurt her. And now she's taken an Avatar-grade strike from him, even if that centipede-thing was in the driver's seat.

And if nothing else, how will Aang take that his body nearly incinerated Katara?

Toph is a little mad at her friends right now, Kalaong. Although her anger may be slightly alleviated at finding that Zuko is alive...she may as well just drop the bomb and finally let the truth fly in Shiyu's, Suki's, and Azula's and her posses' faces about what happened at the Western Temple.

The Kanaloa was the one possessing the Avatar, by the way. It wasn't the Avatar State. Though, that doesn't mean Katara is any safer from the Avatar State, either...

Hmm. Shiyu noticed that Agni has withdrew his protection from the Avatar. The Kanaloa, however, is both Fire AND Water. Somehow, I don't think it's just Agni who has beef with the Avatar. Ocean might be rather pissed, too, what with the Avatar having left his mess at the North Pole. If that's so, then it looks like Yue wasn't able to talk down either her brother or her husband. I can only watch with utter horrified fascination when Guanyin and Tengri show their hands...

And now we're back to the key element of Aang being considered the de facto Big Bad because he doesn't know everything - and he doesn't know these things because nobody who knows these things tells him anything.

I don't know how "special" Katara is to the Avatar Spirit. Aang likes Katara, and the Avatar Spirit is able to be accessed whenever Aang is emotionally distressed. I'd hate to think that Aang only likes Katara because of some spirit inside him telling him to. What kind of message is that, anyways?

It's true that no one tells Aang anything. Some are too in awe of the Avatar to say anything remotely critical of him, even if he needs it; some are too far away and have secrets of their own to protect to help him; some are scared of what he might do to them and their loved ones; some just don't want to hurt him (his friends). At the same time, Aang doesn't need to be spoon-fed in a high-chair. He does have the past Avatars for help (when he remembers), the Great Spirits, and even a few friendly ghosts (Shih, Gyate, Gyatso). Then there's the fact that Aang doesn't do well sitting still and listening, does he?

A whole combination of different factors comes into play. Aang really is unlucky.

Ignorance doesn't equal bad. Yeah he screwed up. But can you honestly say Aang won't try to fix things? Yeah, ignorance might cause him to screw up more, which might lead to people TELLING him stuff.

And if you're calling Aang the Big Bad due to ignorance, what does that make those who know of they ignorance, can fo something about it and keep him in the dark? Wait, that sounds like Long Feng. So Katara, Toph and Sokka are the same as Long Feng?

Yeah, I don't think so.

Remember, Aang was raised believing he wouldn't have to do any adult stuff for YEARS. And war was NOT a factor in his upbringing. Has he had opportunities to change? Yes. Yes he has. Have you had opportunities to take up a healthier lifestyle with lots of exercise? Yes. Have you taken it up? Probably not. Modifying your lifestyle isn't easy. And that's with little changes like establishing a set bedtime or changing said bedtime. Does what Aang has to count as a little change?

Hell no.

Change is hard. The changes Aang has consider and decide upon will be especially hard since he idolizes his people (who have been wiped out), and will have to forsake some of his cultural beliefs to accomplish what's needed. I'm not praticularly cultural but I figure forsaking part of your culture is a VERY BIG thing. Those who are very cultural, feel free to correct me.

The Kanaloa will probably result in Aang in being less trusting in Spirits. Good thing because it means less possession states. Bad thing because some Spirits honestly want to help (Yue, Agni, for example. I doubt they're the only ones).

It might also lead to people realing, that maybe they shouldn't try to coddle Aang so much or put aside their preference to keep distance to make sure he has information he needs. And force him to sit still long enough to listen.

More than a Ty Lee/Aang debate I want a Tao/Shiyu debate. Though odds are that one will end in violence.

And the thought of the Avatar Spirit influence Aangs feeling so that it would have a way out whenever Katara get put in real danger is frightening.

And if Katara isn't safe from the Avatar Spirit this may be a good thing, give Aang a reason to control his emotions more. Can't have him going glowy every time he gets upset.

Aang does have pretty good control over his emotions. He loses it only under the most extreme of circumstances(discovering Gyatso's body, seeing Katara get buried alive, facing the bandits that kidnapped Appa).

I just think it would have been really nice for Zuko to learn that baiting Katara is every bit as suicidal as baiting Aang. That vendetta contract ruined that(really convenient for him, just like Lituya Bay making all those waterbending refugees into Fire Nationals), so he can harangue Katara to his heart's content and all Aang can do is cry.

@Shimmer712: I was saying that one of the big themes of the fic seems to be that damned near everything wrong with the world is the Avatar Spirit's fault, and Aang is part of the problem for being too ignorant and idealistic to obey Zuko like the refugees of Dragon's Wings and start MDKing at his advice.

As it is, Zuko's essentially Jesus - crap happens to him non-stop, but none of it is his fault and everyone who disagrees with him is evil and/or stupid for not agreeing with him from the start. It actually reminds me of Enders Game - except Zuko has Peter's arrogance. I never realized how insufferable Ender would be if he was a Proud Warrior Race Guy instead of a Reluctant Warrior.

EDIT: Odd thought. The Gaang are constantly tormented by their failures; why couldn't they save Yue, the Moon Spirit, the Air Nomads, Kya, Ba Sing Se, the invasion force, etc... The people in this fic I consider to be heroes all consider themselves Mass Failure-to-Save Murderers.

Zuko and his allies are tormented by their successes - Why did they have to kill bandits without getting scratched, break Katara's spirit like glass with a written message, not die of loyalty sickness even without spirit-healing, incinerate the last of the Earth Kingdoms' armies using asymmetric warfare, etc... Zuko actually refuses to feel guilty about failing to save more Air Nomads as Kuzon.

I can't even phrase exactly how sickening I find that. The Zuklan win every time and feel bad about not winning even more.

Aang also doesn't have the training it takes to actually control the Avatar Spirit now, does he? How convenient then, to just let everything go when the going gets tough, and let the Avatar Spirit take care of everything, right? It's not just that Aang refuses to focus and listen when he's told - he's terribly irresponsible. Everyone here knows it, his friends know it, and others like Zuko tend to crack down on it hardest because they're the ones who get caught up in the mess that the Avatar doesn't clean up and flies away from.

Kalaong, the vendetta papers were meant not just as a way to get into the Fire Nation legitimately, but also for Katara to get some closure on her mother's death, since Aang doesn't understand Water or revenge or her needs.

The themes of this fic include RESPECT, being responsible for your actions, and being hospitable to guests. As for Zuko and Peter...that's not even a good example.

No comment on the Gaang's guilt over Failure To Save Murder versus the Zuklan's guilt over The B Grade? That should be re-stated. Most people are satisfied with "still flying" and only mourn that which can't be mended. The All-Powerful All-Wonderful ZUKO worries about scratching the dismount. Balls it. Zuko gets The B Grade and the arrogant jerk can choke on it!

@cetraskies: People who aren't born to be battle-starving berserkers can survive without triple-worded contracts and codes of conduct under which they have the right to incinerate their rivals in the street. For how many thousands of years have the Fire Nation been acting like German scar-duelers while the rest of the world became increasingly terrified of them?

...Was Kyoshi's hurricane actually unique?

Kalaong...are you seriously saying that Zuko should feel bad because he didn't do enough for the Air Nomads in his past life? Are you really serious? You must be very brave to open such a can of worms.

Kyoshi was able to chain the people of Fire to one bloodline. You're asking whether or not her hurricane was UNIQUE. I'm fairly sure that donahermurphyabc or someone else can answer something so clear.

Peter is a bully bent on world domination; Zuko is not. I don't know how you're able to pull two such different characters from two such different series to make a comparison that is anything but equal.

I'm comparing Zuko's arrogance and obsession with perfection with Aang's humility and grief over failure - and Zuko's lack of grief over failure with Aang's lack of obsession with perfection.

And given the Fire Nation's propensity for violence and lack of empathy, I'm wondering if Kyoshi's hurricane was the first time they were ever hit so hard their ancestors felt it.

And that arrogance? Zuko may not want to take over the world, but that arrogance - that absolute certainty that he is Always Right? That is Peter Wiggin.

...huh.

Zuko may be arrogant and gruff, but obsession with perfection? That's Azula, not Zuko. You're getting confused.

And Aang isn't without his own Pride. He is Air, after all. Remember all those times he kept preaching about how revenge is awful and Good People never want revenge and how Air Nomads NEVER use swords, because after all, if Langxue were really an airbender, he should give up his sword. Really humble there, wasn't he?

Don't get me started on that "lack of understanding for Water and revenge and her needs." That's purely Vathara's creation. Just like his obsession with Langxue's sword. Vathara stuffs stupid into Aang's mouth all the time, and makes Zuko inherently wiser. Of course Aang doesn't understand Katara, Vathara won't let him understand her - just so she can torture both Aang and Katara. The REAL Aang? He understands loss and pain and anger. He just uses his training to suppress it as much as possible(and came really close to crossing the line after Appa was stolen in The Desert) because he knows it's self-defeating, and tries to tell Katara(albeit somewhat clumsily) that revenge will destroy her, then lets her travel with Appa to confront Yon Rha because he knows she needs to face that part of herself.

Though of course Vathara will make him rant and rave and assert dominance over Appa to stop her because Vathara wants Aang to be a Stewpeed Boy who needs God-Emperor Zuko to kick his head into a wall For The Greater Good.

Kalaong, you do realize that Aang was raised on an isolated mountain refuge. Did you notice that he has friends in the Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom, but no Water? How is Aang supposed to understand the Water Tribes, anyways? Sure, he may have passed by with Gyatso at some point, but from canon and here, there is no mention of him having ever visited long enough to really ever get to understand how their culture actually works.

Why shouldn't Aang be proud? He is an airbending prodigy at the age of 12 the way Azula is at firebending. Gyatso taught him well to be raised a Master at such a young age. His ignorance and inexperience is justified because he's been walled off from the rest of the world for so long. It's also realistic that Aang would see things through the lens of an Air Monk and that of a 12 year old immature child. Yeah, meditating and seeking enlightenment makes a wise child, but he's been missing out on the rest of the world, due to the whole Air Monk thing about no attachments.

Aang's lack of understanding is no creation. It's rather natural for him not to understand. The fic just examines this thoroughly in intricate detail, what with Aang's Buddhist upbringing and rejection of such alien morals.

He should understand because he's faced the need for revenge before! And overcome it with Katara's help! It is not alien to him! He may not understand Water in all of its forms, but he does understand the urge to inflict pain when he feels pain!

Also, if Aang does not have a screaming, puking, bowel-shattering nervous breakdown over having fried Katara's back while possessed, then Vathara should just give up and have him kill a woman, stake her naked in a field on a set of antlers and eat her lungs - her characterization needs to be taken out behind the chemical sheds and shot!

;;eyebrow up;; Ok, I think this bears repeating: Alternate Universe. Aang in this universe is not the Aang from canon. Neither is Zuko or Toph or Sokka or Katara. Not with this world and this world's backstory. I think that's the main problem here. We can't use canon as a benchmark when discussing this fic. Expecting the characters to behave exactly like their canon selves eighty chapters in is a bit self-defeating, especially when their canon selves would have gotten messily killed by now in this world. Also? Zuko IS kind of the protagonist of this piece, so we see most events and characters through his eyes. The show had a certain tone: it was for kids and Aang was the star. This fic? Totally different. There is NO way to portray what would actually happen in a war of this scale, in a world with bending and spirits, and keep it a kid's show, so Bryke took a LOT of liberties and whitewashed a LOT of what went on.

This fic is what happens when At LA is written for adults. And ironically? Peter Wiggin turned out to be right: after he took over the world, he effectively became the greatest leader humanity ever had. And became something of The Messiah in the process.

...Okay, Vathara needs to re-write The Desert, as it's a pivotal episode involving Aang, Katara, and their uncontrolled emotions. Aang nearly goes mad with grief and pain and loss, and Katara shows him compassion to alleviate his need for revenge.

She needs to re-write that as Toph putting him in a short-term coma with a giant rock.

EDIT: And if a Hegemon ever appears, I hope you enjoy serving him. I'd rather make tracks to a colony world or drink a quart of drain cleaner.

EDIT #2: Also, why is the timestamp insisting I'm in L.A.? I set my profile for New York. It's three hours behind and I can't fix it.

No, Aang does not understand. He slipped into the Avatar State rather appropriately after seeing Gyatso's skeleton. Rage, grief, sorrow, yes, I get that he would feel these. But revenge is not on the list of Buddhist commandments. Why should Aang "understand" revenge when he was taught by Gyatso and the monks not to seek it?

What Aang was able to recognize in Katara was that in her telling him that she and Sokka would be his family, his teachings "Love is never destroyed/What you lost will always return to you" echoed back at him. He calmed down after that. It was definitely a great help. Because of this, Aang thinks that Katara would understand that revenge is wrong. She doesn't. I don't think that Katara sees what Aang sees is what she sees. Their cultures are just too different and clash on certain things to coincide on what's really right.

T-H-E—D-E-S-E-R-T.

THE EPISODE WHERE THEY ARE LOST IN THE DESERT.

When the bandits steal Appa.

He almost took revenge. He feels it. He felt the need to inflict pain simply because he felt pain.

And Katara keeps him from going ballistic.

Hence - CHOOSING NOT TO SEEK REVENGE FOR STEALING APPA. Period.

He doesn't "Not Believe In Revenge", He believes revenge is self-destructive. He does not say Revenge Is Wrong, he says Revenge Hurts Yourself. The stuff that drove Katara into a coma? That's made up out of whole cloth to make Aang hurt Katara, and it really makes me sick.

Either it happened entirely differently and Vathara needs to Retcon it as Toph being worthy of Zuko's consort by spanking the baby with a bolder, or there is something inherently wrong with her setting.

"Aang does have pretty good control over his emotions. He loses it only under the most extreme of circumstances(discovering Gyatso's body, seeing Katara get buried alive, facing the bandits that kidnapped Appa)."

Which would be fine if A) His freaking out didn't release the power of the spirit of the planet and b) a war wasn't going on. Extreme circumstance is the definition of war, it's only luck that it doesn't happen more often.

"Zuko and his allies are tormented by their successes - Why did they have to kill bandits without getting scratched, break Katara's spirit like glass with a written message, not die of loyalty sickness even without spirit-healing, incinerate the last of the Earth Kingdoms' armies using asymmetric warfare, etc... Zuko actually refuses to feel guilty about failing to save more Air Nomads as Kuzon."

Wait, are you mad that Zuko's not a sociopath? Yes Zuko feels bad about hurting and killing other people. And how to you expect him to feel bad about not saving more air nomads? He remembers it sure, but he says himself that the memories are washed out, and the feelings associated with them aren't all there.

"He should understand because he's faced the need for revenge before! And overcome it with Katara's help! It is not alien to him! He may not understand Water in all of its forms, but he does understand the urge to inflict pain when he feels pain!"

There's a huge difference between lashing out at someone shortly after being hurt and wanting revenge years after the fact. Aang was hurt and lashed out at the cause, that's not at all the same as Katara wanting to track down and kill Yon Rha years after it happened. Bring Aang face to face with the person who killed Gyatso, then we'll have a similar situation, because having you pet kidnapped and being there when you mother is murdered are not at all equivalent experiences.

"Which would be fine if A) His freaking out didn't release the power of the spirit of the planet and b) a war was going on. Extreme circumstance is the definition of war, it's only luck that it doesn't happen more often."

---

And I guess you need to pass that on to Vathara; His people dying isn't enough, his new family being terrified of him isn't enough, him failing in everything he tries isn't enough! TORTURE AANG SOME MORE! ...Except that he hasn't gone off at the latter two examples, so, yes, he had a damn good handle on it.

---

"Wait, are you mad that Zuko's not a sociopath? Yes Zuko feels bad about hurting and killing other people. And how to you expect him to feel bad about not saving more air nomads? He remembers it sure, but he says himself that the memories are washed out, and the feelings associated with them aren't all there."

---

Zuko is bothered by The B Grade but not Failure To Save Murder. He feels guilty about the things he's too good at, not the things he's not good enough at. Those aren't Skewed Priorities? ...Though that could be he doesn't feel like he's ever failed to save anyone because HE NEVER FAILS!

---

"There's a huge difference between lashing out at someone shortly after being hurt and wanting revenge years after the fact. Aang was hurt and lashed out at the cause, that's not at all the same as Katara wanting to track down and kill Yon Rha years after it happened. Bring Aang face to face with the person who killed Gyatso, then we'll have a similar situation, because having you pet kidnapped and being there when you mother is murdered are not at all equivalent experiences."

---

Considering the spiritual bond Aang has with Appa, you still call him a "pet"? You have skewed priorities. It's more like... someone carved out a chunk of his brain. And he forgave that. And besides, he forgave Tao for not doing anything about the Air Nomad Genocide, so technically he did forgive the guy who killed Gyatso.

And again, Vathara deliberately mutilated Aang's "Revenge Is Self-Destructive" speeches into "Revenge Is Wrong." There's a huge difference. In the original, Aang advises Katara to forgive because he doesn't want her to get hurt. In Vathara-land, he's doing it out of some warped cosmic duty to preserve orderliness in the universe and Katara doesn't matter. Hell, she's not even consistent in-universe - "...nobody deserves to be forgiven." "Forgiveness isn't about them. It's about you." And instead he shoves a blunt "Revenge is Wrong" down Katara's throat instead of the "Don't kill yourself chasing this guy!" he understands it really means.

Over and over, Zuko gets modified to make him a tortured genius sparkling vampire, and Aang gets modified to be stupid and useless. At this rate, I wonder if Vathara is going to let Zuko defeat Ozai and become the Big Damn Hero while Aang gets abandoned for not being what everyone else wants him to be.

Speaking of sparkling, why hasn't Vathara written any Twilight fics yet? Or is she secretly Stephanie Meyer?

"And I guess you need to pass that on to Vathara; His people dying isn't enough, his new family being terrified of him isn't enough, him failing in everything he tries isn't enough! TORTURE AANG SOME MORE! ...Except that he hasn't gone off at the latter two examples, so, yes, he had a damn good handle on it."

This has nothing to do with the fact that when is emotionally stressed he becomes a danger to everyone around him. Which is a common occurrence in war.

"Zuko is bothered by The B Grade but not Failure To Save Murder. He feels guilty about the things he's too good at, not the things he's not good enough at. Those aren't Skewed Priorities? ...Though that could be he doesn't feel like he's ever failed to save anyone because HE NEVER FAILS!"

No, it's made pretty explicit that he feels bad about having to kill. Kills the Bandits who are attacking that family? Feels bad about it. Slaughter those bandits that attack them a little while latter? Feels bad about it. The Earth Kingdom army? Feels bad about it. It's not "I wasn't good enough" because he pretty much always does the best he can at the time, it's the same guilt anyone who kills feels.

"Considering the spiritual bond Aang has with Appa, you still call him a "pet"? You have skewed priorities. It's more like... someone carved out a chunk of his brain. And he forgave that. And besides, he forgave Tao for not doing anything about the Air Nomad Genocide, so technically he did forgive the guy who killed Gyatso."

Since when is not splattering the guys responsible all over the desert the same as forgiving them? And where do you get the idea he forgave them? He goes all glowy, they run, and that's the last we see of them. Oh sure he claims to, after the fact and when he's got Appa back already. Which is kind of a lame comparison to someone who's never getting her parent back. And for all his platitudes on forgiveness, forgiveness should never be freely given to anyone. That's actually why I liked that episode so much, Yon Rha isn't forgiven but Zuko, who's actually doing something to try to make amends, is.

And really, Tao is the same as the fire nation now? So all Germans are Nazis, in fact everyone's Nazis just for not doing anything. Britain, France, The Commonwealth, and the US where all Nazis until the stepped into fight. Look, not stopping a murder if you can isn't moral, but it's not at all on the same level as being the murderer.

"And again, Vathara deliberately mutilated Aang's "Revenge Is Self-Destructive" speeches into "Revenge Is Wrong." There's a huge difference. In the original, Aang advises Katara to forgive because he doesn't want her to get hurt. In Vathara-land, he's doing it out of some warped cosmic duty to preserve orderliness in the universe and Katara doesn't matter. Hell, she's not even consistent in-universe - "...nobody deserves to be forgiven." "Forgiveness isn't about them. It's about you." And instead he shoves a blunt "Revenge is Wrong" down Katara's throat instead of the "Don't kill yourself chasing this guy!" he understands it really means."

I don't see anything inconsistent with those two lines. As far as it goes, those are actually a lot better than what we get in Canon. And he's still on revenge is poison he's just a fair bit more vocal about it, which is what you'd expect form a twelve year old monk. There was that whole thing with Shidan and how revenge was poison but it was Shidan's choice to make.

Can we at least say it's crazy how Zuko has succeeded in every single thing he's set out to do save dragging Aang back to Ozai, while Aang has FAILED in every single thing he's set out to do save get Katara waterbending training(and even that turned out to be semi-bad training)?

Kalaong, so far about half of the problems you have with the story are entirely in your head, such as Zuko's letter making it so Katara can't stop the Avatar state (which you keep claiming even after it's made clear that the volcano-bug possessed him to attack Katara)and Zuko being dinged for "style" when he gets upset about leaving piles of corpses. Most of the rest are either things you don't like, based in ignorance of what's being portrayed (like the PTSD in the last chapter), or blown out of proportion.

If you are so in love with the fic being horrible that you have to make stuff up in order for there to be something to be upset about, why on earth are you reading it?

It's because I like most of her other stuff(or at least I used to), and it's this one that demonstrates that she likes to ego-stroke the Jack Bauer types and generally demean the Xander Harrises. And with ATLA, she's stuck with a nice guy being the key player in the whole operation. This latest chapter is like a Peanuts strip where Lucy decides to quit teasing Charlie Brown with the football and stomp his face into a curb.

I doubt I'll post here again, so I'll leave this thought; Zuko, you really enjoyed smashing Aang's head into a stone wall. I wonder if it made the useless moron any smarter, or if it just made it more likely that your daddy is going to wipe out your fanclub, along with the rest of the world?

Now now, children. We are all entitled to our own likes and dislikes.

Foxfier, don't be such a spoilsport. We do need some form of entertainment to fill in for the next three weeks. Even if it comes from someone with the myopic reading comprehension of a fifth-grader.

Kalaong, there is no point in you discussing or debating at all if you can't take criticism. There is no fun in arguing with someone who flinches whenever your viewpoints are picked apart so easily.

What Zuko's trying to do is infinitely easier than what Aang's trying to do. So it really doesn't surprise me that Aang hasn't had much luck so far. Aang's trying to save the world, Zuko's not.

Cetraskies, there's no call to be insulting fifth graders.

;;eyes wide;; Ok, that went south really quickly. And I'm seriously confused about the ;;demeaning the Xander Harrises;; thing. I've read just about everything she's written where he appears, and he gets a pretty good portrayal every time. All right then, moving on.

Back to the fic. Hmm, I wonder if Aang's lost all great spirit protections or just Agni's (And possibly Yue's). That guest right breach was pretty big.

So you've decided to grace us with a response at last, Neo Shiraku. I suppose I should be amused. I will listen to you AFTER you reread my last post.

blackflamerose, you were right in every way. And I was right about the Great Spirits not needing to confront the Avatar. The Kanaloa is both Fire AND Water. That is Agni AND Ocean, I'd say. If Ocean had withdrew his protection as well, then Yue couldn't convince them to help the Avatar further. Not just that, but because she is a Great Spirit as well. You forget Guanyin, who is the Mother of all Contracts. How much does she like having oaths be broken? The Goddess of Mercy she may be, I don't think she'll be able to be merciful now...

Zuko enjoyed slamming Aang into the all because Aang has done it to him multiple times, and done it to multiple others, with no realization that it HURTS. If someone had made a habit of bouncing me off of walls, I'd find it satisfying to have a really good reason to do the same to them. (Keeping them from killing their friends while possessed by an evil spirit is a pretty good reason.)

cetraskies- I am a spoilsport; when I put the time and effort into reading what someone writes, I prefer that it have some sort of relation to the story being discussed, rather than invented issues to justify "I have more sympathy for this character than that character, so I'll ignore everything else and whine."

I also think the story has enough stuff to discuss that we can keep going for a few weeks without being sidetracted by delusions that have been repeatedly debunked, and would've been debunked by not-very-careful reading in the first place. (Here's hoping that school lets her go more easily than it did last year at this time.)

Blackflamerose- I would guess Aang's lost all defenses against the really nasty spirits until he does something to fix the offense... I have no idea what that would consist of, though. I'm only vaguely familiar with Celtic tradition, and they had a money price for most every offense.

Losing all elements' defense will give him opportunity to learn to divide himself from his bending like a normal Bender— it's something that can be picked up, Katara was doing it until the demon got Aang— and make him a much more effective bender, since control + power = ouch.

Oooh, I forgot that Earth has Mercy! Possibly Toph will be able to help with the rebalancing of the scales of debt? Lets her show some flaws, too, and might give the fire sage a chance to have some character growth.

Oh poo, Foxfier. Not all of us can be Genre Savvy about the fic. So what if some people can't read between the lines? I certainly don't care, but don't worry. I value your opinion as well as everyone else's here.

Azula has not just Onmitsu with her, but Dai Li. I believe they might be able to see that the Avatar has broken a holy oath, and may seek to keep their mistresses away from harm. Where do you think the gAang will go now? It's obvious that Aang has lost Agni's OK to be on his islands. Where next? I hope Earth Kingdom. The Dai Li will then be able to detect that her Holiness is most unhappy with the Avatar. Will Kuei be able to sense the wrongness should Aang step into Ba Sing Se again? I used to think that the Earth King most of all would have a positive attitude towards the Avatar, but now...

It feels like all my theories are being debunked left and right.

Without the Great Spirits' protection, I can't think that the Dai Li will be happy to have Aang anywhere near them, their land, or their King. Kuei certainly cannot entertain his future wife when there's an unlucky Avatar flying around randomly with no set landing. And I think that there will be a Dai Li in Azula's entourage who's going to let the Earth King know just how badly the Avatar is off with the Mother of Mercy.

I don't know if Toph will be able to do anything about rebalancing the scales. She's not very spiritually inclined as the Dai Li are. Which makes me think that the Earth King may end up with that unlucky job.

Cetraskies- I don't ask for genre savvy, just not making things up; even mistakes are OK, as long as you pay attention when they're corrected.

Dai Li are a much better route! Hopefully, Azula actually has them with her, rather than wherever she's based at.

Maybe they'll head to the Swamp?

Yes, Foxfier, that is so.

Alright. Thinking about it more closely, the Dai Li may not know or be able to tell if their patron Spirit withdrew her protection...yet. They are still in Fire Nation territory and waters. The question then, can contracts-that-are-broken be sensed across the world? The Dai Li are Earth and are much more able to sense something terribly amiss when unruly spirits are about. Shiyu is a Fire Sage, so he has a very direct connection with Agni. The Dai Li...uh, their allegiance is to the Earth King...or was. The ones following Azula? Do you think now that they've given their Loyalty to her with the Earth King's OK, that they will sense that Agni has taken away his protection from the Avatar?

This gives rise to more questions. Just how strong are the Dai Li with Azula? Are any on of them spiritually close to Guanyin like Shiyu is to Agni? The Swamp...huh. I didn't think about that.

To be honest, I hope they'll go to Ba Sing Se. Mainly because I want to see if Kuei and his Dai Li have taken back the throne, and to finally see Eshe and Amisi again. It's been too long. Plus, it would be very entertaining to see the gobsmacked faces of Azula and her entourage.

Scanning through some of the new reviews for this chapter— Shiyu says that they didn't tell Zuko about the spirit because he wasn't Azula, which Zuko and Sokka take to mean "wasn't as good of a bender as Azula." What if there was something else that was in consideration, such as "You're the new crown prince, you would've just been killed before coming here— and if that wasn't the case, the massive kablooie would stop whoever was dumb enough to put you in here" or "we kind of assumed you'd only be coming back as a pawn for your Uncle being power behind the throne, and loyalty kinda demanded that we make sure you and all the conspirators died while trying to break out some fire power."

Yeah, I'm a bit unclear what Shiyu was saying too.

Speaking of breaking out fire power, how bad will it be when Aang realises what sort of people he let loose? Don't forget, he's been fairly shelter all his life until recently, and when he was in prison (Avatar Day in Chin Village), the people were pretty decent. So he may not realize that the people in Boiling Rock included rapists and murderers. After all, Suki was there and she's nice. Why would she be locked up with that sort? (And I just gave myself some potential nightmare fuel regarding her stay)

Sokka, you had doubts to Aang's idea of letting them loose. Did you tell him why you weren't keen on that? Although, you have to admit Aang had a point. If the Firelord keeps hiding behind his army, how is Aang supposed to beat him? Diverting his forces will only help. But is it the army that deals with that thing or does Law Enforcement have its own branch?

And why would the Dai Li know Aang broke an Oath? Shiyu didn't until the Kanaloa successfully possessed Aang due to the lack of protection? And Fire Sages deal with spirits in the Fire Nation the way the Dai Li did in Ba Sing Se.

And I'm wondering about Zuko's knowledge of spirits. He was worried about the Sea Serpent going back and getting Aang and Katara. And Kuzon did study so he could train Aang when he found him. Chances that included spirits? And while Zuko wasn't worried about it grabbing Aang when it had Katara under, that may be due to that fact Aang still had protection (or, you know, he was more worried about surviving and breaking its grip on her. That's possible too). And even if he didn't before, Amak stated "Carelessness in breaking a spirit-sworn word, most of all. The Avatar is a powerful spirit, but he's not immune to the spirit world's laws. If you were here under his protection, and he broke that word... he's at great risk." So if Zuko wasn't aware before, he is now.

Shiyu, you had better cover Spirits during your firebending training...oh crap. Will Shiyu agree to train Aang knowing he ticked off Agni?

Sorry for breaking my promise about posting again, but I just had a thought that hits my brain like broken glass; since Aang broke guest right in his misguided attempt to protect Katara from Zuko, he no longer has the spiritual support and protections that he's depended on for pretty much everything since coming out of that iceberg.

Not only does he no longer have protection from involuntary possession, but as all luck in the Avatar-verse is implied to be spiritual favor, he no longer has extraordinary luck - which is why I understand how Zuko was suddenly able to force Aang to bite a street curb and smack a gondola into his head after months of fruitless pursuit.

In other words, Aang is now Just Like Zuko - no luck at all!

Aang is about be folded, spindled and mutilated both physically and psychologically. Anything is possible, from brutal maiming to discovering that Katara is a descendant of Gyate's second child. That poor boy is likely to break and die.

If Zuko doesn't teach Aang to survive without luck, he won't even have to lift a finger. All he has to do... is wait. He'll have his revenge. All the revenge in the world.

Zuko doesn't want Aang dead. And for payback, the only real thoughts in that direction was the notion of using the burning-leaf-wind to blow him into a wall.

And even if Zuko wanted some major revenge, he wouldn't want Aang dead, simply becuase the next Avatar will be Water Tribe.

And besides that, Zuko has a soft spot for Toph, who will be upset if Aang dies.

So Zuko wants Aang alive. Although its not because he particularly likes him.

But Aang IS about to suffer every bit as much as Zuko has suffered, and Zuko will get to watch.

I think that Zuko will be along the of "he's not dead or permanently maimed/crippled so it's not so bad" school of thought initially. As long as it can be healed and it doesn't permanently damage Aang, he probably will just see to it Aang recovers then focus on what needs to be done. His main concern will probably be Toph's well-being. While he's there. He still plans on heading back to Dragon's Wings?

Although that may change if he hangs around.

And as a side note, though everyone would jump on me if I suggested that Zuko deliberately planned to eliminate Aang's spiritual support, how does everyone like the concept of Koh deliberately sending the sea serpent to screw with Katara's head enough to start a fight that Aang would clumsily and ignorantly disrupt, violating guest right and eliminating his spiritual support?

Kalaong, blackflamerose and I have only been saying before that Aang is in for a lot of shit for breaking his contract with the Great Spirits. Good to see you get with the program, but what makes you think that Aang is the center of Zuko's universe? Aside from the promise he made in his past life to make Aang apologize for running off and scaring them, Zuko has no designs on torturing Aang. The idea that Zuko planned for Aang to lose spiritual support is ridiculous as it is faulty. Zuko has his own problems in the here and now, and he really should be getting back to Asagitatsu after straightening things out with the gAang, Azula and her crew, and Amak.

I actually thought that Katara was meant to be the next host for the Avatar Spirit, since it "likes" her so much, as you claim. But thinking about it more rationally, she can't have been, as it could have been anyone else had Aang really died back then.

Shimmer712, finally, someone gets what I've been saying before. Like everyone else here, I thought Shiyu would readily and most happily agree to be the Avatar's firebending teacher. However, the circumstances have long changed. For all that Shiyu pledged to be loyal to the Avatar as the Fire Sages of the past had, he is most of all, a priest for Agni. There are some divided loyalties here. And even Shiyu cannot serve two masters.

How will this pan out, you guys? Think! Even Shiyu can turn the Avatar down, if he feels that his patron Spirit finds it unfavorable to do so. And he will learn just why the Avatar has earned Agni's disfavor.

As for the Dai Li...I deduced that from their high spiritual inclination, they can tell that Aang broke an oath. The Dai Li may be Earth, but I think that the really strong ones will be able to tell something is off about the Avatar. Once they learn that Agni has withdrawn his support from the Avatar, that the kanaloa is both Fire AND Water, they will see just how badly off Aang is. And if two great Spirits have taken away the Avatar's benefits because he is an Oathbreaker, they will make the connection in that their own patron Spirit can't be happy to support someone who does not honor debts, contracts and obligations. It's against everything Guanyin stands for.

All of the (demi)humans involved know that if Aang doesn't win, Everybody Dies. So no matter how much any of them hate Aang, they'll help. The "Zuko did it" theory was a joke, but how do you like the "Koh sent the Sea Serpent" theory? Koh's targeted the Avatar's loved ones as part of a plan to screw with its wayward parent before...

...-Blinks- That is a possibilty. I thought eariler that maybe he gave Zhao the vision of being destined to kill the moon to eliminate an opposing spirit. He may view a Yaoren close to the Avatar as a threat, especially one that has already killed two spirits (the plague spirit and the Haima-jiao) and STOLE the super-volcano Koh had plans for. Maybe he saw a chance to kill two birds with one stone. He gets the Yaoren away from the Avatar and hopefully dead and the Avatar is vulnerable, meaning it'll be easier for Koh to carry out his plans. And there's a chance with Zuko dead, he can use Asagitatsu for his scheme, since she took him as her dragon-child, which the Avatar killed.

And the fact that the thing that possessed Aang is related to Koh... You think Koh may have had a word with it?

Okay, I officially believe Koh is a Magnificent Bastard. And the scary thing? He's important. Not liked, but it's implied he is vital for the world balance. So the heros can't kill him without screwing things up and maybe causing the world to be destroyed over time. So he fails? He can just wait until Aang, Katara, Zuko and the rest have faded out of history and try again.

Eep!

Actually, do you think, with a bit more world-knowledge, Aang will be able to get Koh to accept the the Crazy Avatar had to die and accept humanity's presence? Maybe not LIKE it, but accept it.

And again it's a Xanatos Gambit. Koh has Sea Serpent make Katara attack Zuko;

A) Katara kills Zuko; Asagitatsu loses its last sane dragon. Win.

B) Zuko kills Katara; Aang loses his emotional support. Win.

C) Aang charges in and blasts Zuko off the cliff because he thinks Zuko's attacking Katara(like he has countless times before, both physically and mentally), thus violating guest right: Aang loses his spiritual protection. Win.

So you agree that if Koh had a hand in it, it's proof he's a Magnificent Bastard?

And even if he didn't plan it and get the Sea Serpent to attack, the Kanaloa is related to him. If they don't kill it, it may decide to go let its elder know that Aang doesn't have his spiritual protection right now. And do we really think Koh will pass up that opportunity?

Yeah, although I bet Koh would have preferred outcome B, as Zuko killing Aang's emotional support would result in Aang violating guest right by killing Asagitatsu's last sane dragon on the spot.

I dunno if Koh really had any plans on this, really. While it is a given that Koh is one big Magnificent Bastard, I don't think that it was him who sent that kadzhait. Water spirits aren't under its control, but it is Makoto's. I think that Makoto could be a ripe candidate for Magnificent Bitch, after all the trouble her great-grandson has caused her. Stealing Asagitatsu from her was a big slap to her face. And to think that Zuko, the failure of Ozai's children, had DARED to side with the Avatar, going with him BACK to the Fire Nation where he was banished to get the treacherous Fire Sage Shiyu out...

She must be boiling with absolute, complete and utter FURY.

I would think that Koh would be licking his wounds after having had to listen to Langxue sing "99 Bottles" while they were at Asagitatsu. Not that distance is a thing for an old, powerful Spirit like himself, but the Fire Nation is his ally Makoto's domain.

Would be violating guest right if Zuko killed Katara first? A host has certain rules and obligations he has to follow but so does the guest. If Zuko had killed Katara, then it probably would have be okay in terms of guest-rights for Aang to kill him. Al though Agni and La may have been a bit annoyed.

In the Odyssey, Odysseus and his son Telemachus killed the suitors with no consequences. While Odysseus could be excused due to his previous absence, the gods should have struck Telemachus with a punishment, unless the suitors had violated the sacred hospitality.

The T Vtropes page on Sacred Hospitality sums it up pretty good. "The host must not harm the guest, the guest must not harm the host" Killing Katara would have removed any obligations Aang had to not harm Zuko. But since Zuko didn't kill her and her only injuries were the result of trying to drive the Sea Serpent out of her mind...well, you know where that went.

But with option B, Asagitatsu still would have lost her "cub" and have another reason to dislike the Avatar.

Aaand now I'm back to being glad we have no scientific proof for the existence of spirits, given that they have no concept of extenuating circumstances. In reference to Avatar Of Victory, I fully and totally understand why the asari chose to exterminate all spirits on Thessia.

I would guess that Shiyu will refuse to train Aang until he regains Agni's favor, at the very least; poor guy's brain may explode with the whole exiled-prince-back-in-the-country competing pulls on loyalty...and that's before the three-way pileup of Azula, the Invasion Fleet and whoever else shows up.

Hm... this could be a setup to Aang figuring out how to fix the balance with the elements, which leads to the group figuring out how to fix the balance with Koh.

The suitors that Odysseus and his son killed had violated the "deal" by trying to force his wife to marry one of them, and being bad guests; if I remember right, some versions they planned to kill the kid, too, and they did try to kill the guy who rightfully won the hand of Odysseus' wife. (Even if they didn't know it was Odysseus himself.) Vathara's mentioned before, intentions don't matter to spirits. (Seems to hold pretty solid in most mythologies, which makes sense for personifications of natural phenomena; the cliff doesn't care if you didn't mean to get too close to the edge.)

Given that at this point they have about a month before the end of the world? I'm still wondering exactly how many spirits want to exterminate mankind in this milieu. In light of that theory, my first thought would be... A LOT.

Of course there are a lot of spirits that don't like humans. Koh is just one of the major ones.

Foxfier, Shiyu has no such ties of Loyalty to the banished ex-Prince of the Fire Nation. His loyalties are divided between the Avatar and Agni. Even if Zuko were to support him in teaching Aang, will Shiyu find Aang worthy of being taught when he learns that the Avatar has no honor?

And I honestly thought that Ty Lee would be the one to say this aloud, too.

For the most part, they all really need to get out of the Fire Nation. With Zuko and Azula now in their father's disfavor, with Aang losing the protection of some of the most important Gods in the world, they really need to high-tail it before Makoto decides to send any more of her allies into the depths of Koh's lair.

Oh, and I forgot to ask; would guest right recognize the influence of the sea serpent? My law-dickery instinct says it wouldn't, ergo "Katara attacked Zuko. If she was controlled by the sea serpent, it's her own fault for being too weak and/or ignorant to resist it. Aang has no right to be angry with Zuko for killing her in self-defense." Thus outcome B would still lead to outcomes A and C, only as the result of an Avatar-state tantrum that would have alienated his ghost parents. The bad guys are fine with outcome C, but they would have preferred B.

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Oh, and I still support the "waterbender prison/research facility" theory. So does this guy.

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It’s not like a Fire Nation general just waltzed into Water Tribe territory and was able to study them up close and personal. The Water Tribes really aren’t bastions of cultural exchange and openness, and their remoteness makes it a bit difficult for people to visit them.

So how could Iroh have seriously studied waterbenders? My first thought was Hama and the other Water Tribe POWs. He could have had access to them as a general, and the Fire Nation surely did something else with the waterbenders than just keep them locked up in cages the whole time.

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Also, this part's relevant, too;

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It didn’t occur to me before this episode that Katara doesn’t actually know Southern Water Tribe waterbending. She had self-taught herself a few techniques—making tiny waves and throwing water around occasionally—but all of her teaching has been from the Northern Water Tribe. Even the waterbending scroll she stole from the pirates was from the Northern Water Tribe. Of course Katara would jump at the chance to have Hama teach her the Southern Water Tribe’s waterbending traditions AKA the heritage she has never been able to learn and thought was lost. And now that Hama is presumably set to die in prison and it’s highly doubtful that any other southern waterbenders survived, that heritage is effectively dead. This means that the Fire Nation not only wiped out all but one Air Nomad, but they also completely wiped out the Southern Water Tribe style of waterbending.

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...the Lituya Bay waterbenders are poisoned and can't pass their styles on to the Water Tribes, as only the hybrid Fire/Water culture of Byakko has the ability to pass on that training without passing on the trauma. It's even worse in Embers than it is in canon - the Fire Nation didn't just exterminate the SWT waterbending style, they consumed it.

cetraskies— not a tie of loyalty to Zuko, but loyalty to the laws of the land that say Zuko is not allowed to be there; by not turning Zuko in, he could be committing treason.

Kalaong- do we have any confirmation that the different poles actually had different styles, or just different applications? There was mention of them having contact basically until they would've been helpful for fighting the attackers. (which makes sense in light of the political stuff mentioned— the SWT would be the American colonists, and the NWT England, sort of)

The Lituya Bay waterbenders aren't "poisoned." They've got really obvious PTSD, which means they're going to have issues keeping themselves from grabbing the emotions of those they're teaching because of Water's emotion-tugging ability. And Katara has taught herself how to recognize and resist that pull. She's not an untrained child bender anymore.

Foxfier, Shiyu was already a traitor when he helped the Aang in Book 1. He's not going to report Zuko to Azula anymore than deal with the royal family of the Fire Nation. Loyalty to the laws of the land, that is something. Looks like Aang may not get his firebending master right away, because if Shiyu suffers from the sickness...well. Zuko could heal him, true, but then, what will Shiyu do? Will he side with Agni, or help Aang anyways despite his spiritual disfavor? Decisions, decisions...

I kind of figured that he could do it because his first loyalty is to Agni...and that won't protect him, now.

Pretty much depends on if Shiyu thinks "fix things" is the best way to serve Agni. I'd think he would— balancing obligations is a pretty major point of honor— but not sure how you fix breaking obligations of hospitality.

Obligations...Tao ought to be able to explain that bit. If Tao is still in Hakoda's group, that is.

With everything that is bound to be revealed next chapter, maybe Tao will be able to tell whether or not Guanyin still finds the Avatar worthy of honor (yeah right, after breaking his contract with the Great Spirits? No way!). Tao did put a lot of emphasis on the Great Spirits (sans Agni, but I'm sure that Shiyu will correct him), so even if his patron Goddess decides not to make a deal with an oathbreaker, one of her own people can, if he wants to. Will Tao want to continue teaching Aang? Knowing what he's done to offend the Great ones.

I wonder if being on land that is not Earth Kingdom makes his shaman senses go static-y. I can't imagine the gAang going to Dragons' Wings. The Swamp, yes. Ba Sing Se could be a good place for Azula and her crew to go back to (at least, maybe she would think so, being it's "ruler"), and maybe Zuko and the gAang might find it good enough to follow, once they get past making truces (this is going to be so much fun!), MAYBE. Stepping on the soil of the Earth Kingdom would trigger some sort of spirit waiting to booby-trap Aang and his friends. If they go into Ba Sing Se (and I hope that Kuei and his Dai Li have retaken the throne), I wonder if the Dai Li will sense the spirits going wild at certain intruders. And if they meet the gAang, they could bring Aang to meet with the Earth King. Like with Wan Shi Tong, the Earth King can preside over Aang's little "case". Even if the evidence is stacked against the Avatar's favor, Kuei would be fair.

Aaand we're back to Aang needing to strike a balance where the Fire Nation can do as they like. Hell, why did the Invasion fail at all, when the one who (metaphorically) made the decree granting the Fire Lord's authority was invoking his right to revoke it? When will we get around to the key to the Fire Nation' lethality; loyalty is one-way. The people of the Fire Nation are loyal to the great names. The Great Names are not loyal to their people(as in though some care about them, they are not punished for betraying them), and the people's only recourse is the extinct-in-the-wild fire healers.

Unless the entire Vathara!Avatar-verse is constructed solely for the Fire Nation's benefit, there is something protecting the Great Names from the people's vengeance. The ritual of praying to Agni that their lord is evil and begging for release from loyalty is pre-Kyoshi, so it can't be the Decree. As far as has been told, there is nothing keeping the Great Names from abusing their people. Their only recourse is making a run for Checkpoint Charlie and praying they survive - and Kyoshi's hurricane closed that loophole by eliminating the fire-healers.

In comparison the Dai Li suffered nothing for letting the Fire Nation take Ba Sing Se - hell, they treated Azula as their leader! That I can understand due to: "We give up everything for our city. Can't it give us something back?" They only got hit by "duty sickness" when they released spirits in an attempt to drive them out of the city. So Earth only gets hit when they try to blatantly break contracts - if one of the parties squirms through a loophole, the other guy can walk - like the Dai Li did from Long Feng to Azula. That's why Toph agreed with Zuko that Aang had no right to escape Zuko's custody back in "The Avatar Returns" - loopholes = bad. No exceptions. It's harsh, but somewhat balanced.

Half a moment... Water and Air binding isn't explored to the extent that Earth is(even by example), let alone Fire. They just see a contradiction in their lives and collapse. Is Earth the anomaly, and the entire world is supposed to run on Explosive Leashes?

Huh? Loyalty is only one way? Err, no. Actually, the great names have to be loyal to their people in return, otherwise the people have every right to demand their loyalty back and bolt. Or, they could until Koh started screwing with things. A domain is the people, not the land. Because of the lack of fire healers to ensure that people who wanted to leave could, loyalty turned into an Explosive Leash, just like the guiding principles of the other Nations got corrupted when their own healers vanished.

That's what makes Koh's scheme particularly insidious; no healers to save cultural rebels equals groupthink on a worldwide level equals no understanding of each other equals massive world domination wars. Air did try to take over first, you know. That's why so many of the hidden Air groups are scared shitless of Aang, they think he'll try to do it all again, since the Temples sprang from that faction. We know he never would, but if they think that the Truth that binds his life is based on that ideology, on harmonius accord, I can't blame them for hiding until they know he's let it go. If that's what corrupted Air is capable of, and we've seen corrupted Fire, I don't even want to consider corrupted Earth, and I actively fear truly corrupted Water. Destroying everyone who isn't Tribe or grabbing all the resources for themselves and letting the rest of the world kill each other over the scraps; either of those is an absolute nightmare scenario for me.

Kalaong, loyalty isn't that simple. To receive something, you must give something FIRST. Mai broke her tie of loyalty to Azula when she learned that the Fire Princess lied to her and never meant to keep any promises in the first place. Aang even mentions the debt books of the Nations in the chapter when dealing with the aftermath of Hama. Go reread chapter 60 to refresh your memory.

Aang has the extremely difficult task of stopping Koh from furthering his ultimate plan to destroy all of humanity. He has to understand the other Nations and somehow translate between humans' wants and needs and the Spirits' own wants and needs. Taking out the Fire Lord is just one step of dealing with the problem, I'd say, if Koh isn't dealt with first. Then once that is through, he does need to confront the other Air peoples, and that's another can of worms to deal with.

It's not just the lack of fire healers, It's that all great names aren't equal. The existence of the right of Dragons Wings and Zuko's speech with Kuei when he says they could stay with him if they chose suggests that pre-Kyoshi if someone felt their local lord was unworthy they could choose to tie themselves to a different lord.

So all those bonds are greater>lesser. I was wondering if great names ever got loyalty sickness for not serving their people's interest, and it seems that they never do.

Brain spasm. In the context of loyalty = community... If a Tribe casts someone out, is it supposed to set off one of those collapses?

In other words, when Sokka said Aang was banished from the village at the start of the second episode of season one... WAS HE TRYING TO EXECUTE HIM!?!

Well, with Tribesmen, it would be an execution. But Sokka was pretty upset and probably not thinking further than "get the guy who is recklessly setting off signals and endangering the village AWAY" and probably figured Appa could get him away.

Off topic but I realized why I don't hate Aang in this: he reminds me of me at twelve.

It's hard for most people to remember that time when it seemed more likely that monkeys would fly from one's anus than people would hurt you for fun. And most people only learned that because someone else taught it to them. And so on...

But I want this made clear to me; Great Names Do NOT Get Loyalty Sickness For Betraying Their People.

If a Great Name decided to start kidnapping, torturing and killing serfs, they themselves are not struck with loyalty sickness for harming their people. If their subjects find out about it, the most they can do is brick them up inside their own rooms, because if they killed the monster, they would get loyalty sickness. In lieu of that, they'd need to run like hell and find a fire-healer so as to not die due to running away from the monster.

...The fire healers only existed to secure runaway serfs so Great Names could claim them as their own, right? Zuko couldn't heal himself - he needed Iroh's(much less effective) healing just to have a chance at survival. If you couldn't stand one, you'd have to find another, and hope they weren't doing anything evil in secret. A ronin healer would be hunted by every lord looking for new serfs.

Fire Lord Zouge was apparently going insane trying to keep his people from harming each other, so they definitely have their own kind of loyalty sickness, from chapter 72 "Fire Lord Zouge's lord-loyalty to his vassals had whip-sawed him between spirit-tugs on every side of the fight. In the end, it'd killed him."

And presumably when all great names where equal if you wanted to leave your current great name your new great name could shield you from loyalty sickness with his inner fire. Though you'd be walking a knife edge between the two for a while.

1). That's still a lot better than the vassals get.

2). Why were Great Names even capable of warring with each other against the Fire Lord's wishes if they were all loyal to him?

3). Apparently, the Fire Lords adapted to ignore it - Sozin wasn't affected, nor were any of his descendants. Even Azula had to be manipulated into caring about the attack on the Caldera. Is there anything keeping Zuko from becoming just another ATLA!Borgia?

4). Again, everyone was either a master or a servant. No one was free. They must have hated the Air Nomads at least as much as prison lifers hate child molesters.

1) But Vassals that aren't loyal die? Is dying slowly better than dying quickly?

2) Probably because they were able to get around what was said, in a manner of "Oh you didn't want me to do x? But you said don't do Y."

3)Sozin's was insane, so I'd argue it did effect him. He also was the one who started pointing the Fire Nation at the Earth Kingdom, who knows when he started that. Probably decades before the first invasion.

4) Guess it depends on your definition of freedom, pre-kyoshi I'd argue they were more free than we are in many ways, I couldn't just pull up and leave my country if I didn't like the direction it was going. It could take years to get the proper documents.

Random quote picked up while surfing;

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"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do."

—Voltaire

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What does that say of Tao, and Long Feng, and generation after generation of Fire Nationals even pre-Kyoshi?

Personal input. Vathara's treatment of mental dysfunction disgusts me.

Several years ago, my little brother had a psychotic break and attacked my mother with a kitchen knife. She woke me up screaming for help - but because she only screamed once, I thought nothing of it and went back to sleep. Luckily, my elder brother was in the house and was able to intimidate him into backing down, or she'd be dead.

And I didn't feel a damn thing, other than a general disgust for everyone's tolerance of his actions - and of mine.

Today my god-fucking-damned cat died, and I'm in worse shape than I was when my mother was attacked.

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Chapter 56: The children-of-Flame are not alien.

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BULL-FUCKING-SHIT.

Zuko is more concerned with his people's "honor" than he is with the deaths - a century of war - that his family has caused. These are not the thought processes of a rational, ethical human being. They are the thought processes of a sick, vicious animal that either needs to stay in the wild far away from rational, ethical human beings, or strapped to a gurney and injected with drugs until they die.

We are supposed to feel more for human beings than animals - to weep more tears for innocent dead in mass graves than wounded pride, centuries past.

You're a monster, Zuko. I wish your father had killed you on that field. I hope your sister kills you in the next chapter.

And I wish Vathara understood that human beings are not supposed to have instincts like these, which I why I bet that Azula is about to join the Zuklan, and that Aang is about to suffer even more for being an empathic, gentle, human soul.

I'm one of your damned "dragons", Vathara. AND I SHOULD NOT BE AROUND PEOPLE.

AND I SURE AS SUNRISE SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING WITH THEM.

So you're saying we should have wiped Japan out after ww2 then? You apparently need to pay more attention to history.

Also if someone attacked Zuko's mother, that person would be dead, full stop. So on that count it's you with the problem not Zuko. With millions of years of evolution pointing us toward protecting family any one who doesn't is more than a little iffy. Human or Dragon.

You seem to keep trying to attribute sociopathy to someone who is demonstrably not a sociopath. But we see examples of his empathy, sympathy, compassion, etc. We have several scenes dedicated to the aftermath of killing, we have his reaction with Amaya after she disguises Iroh's eyes, we have his interaction with Jinhai after he discovers him as a firebender, we have him not offing Jet out of hand, which even if he had done I wouldn't blame him a bit for. Where exactly do you get your information to classify Zuko as a monster? When he goes out of his way to avoid people? When he regrets killing? How about where he still cares enough about his sister and the promise he made to his mother to try to help her?

You not a dragon, you don't seem to understand dragon morality at all, nor that Zuko's biggest issues come from weighing dragon and human morality equally.

Kalaong, your enthusiasm for the fic is well-noted, but you really should stop projecting yourself onto the story and its characters. No one here is interested in your personal life. Really, don't flatter yourself. It's cheap.

Why don't you actually come up with something of actual intellectual worth to discuss than your major rants of misunderstanding.

Honestly, everyone, I've gotten to the point that I can't take Kalaong seriously anymore. Feeling terrible because you're more distressed over the loss of a pet than an attack on your mother is perfectly understandable. Stating that everyone who does not react exactly like you is a sociopath who should die is not. And yes, True Metis, you weren't the only one who had the thought "so, we should have carpet-nuked Japan then, since everyone there is guilty of not stopping the war? And wiped out all of the Axis nations, too?" I actually thought that Zuko had been a bit too SOFT in regards to Jet. As long as he lives, he's never going to leave anyone with even slight ties to Fire—real or imagined—alone. In this regard, he's a breathing Lady Stoneheart. For everyone's safety, he needed to be executed.

So now I'm echoing another poster: if there is a problem one has with a story, back up one's positions with in text examples instead of making them up wholesale; and if someone proves one wrong, do not keep repeating the same discounted interpretations. You are entitled to your own opinion. You are NOT entitled to your own facts.

True Metis, you forget that Zuko's issues also stem from his past life and his present life. His powers, his knowledge, experience - a lot of that is a resource for Zuko, but it's clear that in this fic that Reincarnation has many disadvantages. Zuko has major identity issues, as well as keeping himself firmly anchored in the present, despite all the crap that has happened then and now.

blackflamerose, I believe Zuko did the right thing with Jet. It means that he can hand Jet over to the Earth King for judgement. Zuko isn't Jet's overlord - Kuei is. We all know just how severe Earth King Kuei can be when his people are threatened. Zuko was indeed very kind and even generous to Jet. If Jet were to hear it from the Earth King himself that he allied with Zuko, a firebender, heh. I can only imagine the beatdown that Jet would get before he could even launch himself at Kuei. Dai Li, Eshe, Amisi...I suspect even his friends Smellerbee and Longshot would knock him out first.

I think that the treatment of Jet is going to result in problems in the long run— but that it was still the correct choice. Call it the Gollum Gambit.

Now, if he's in the process of threatening folks and killing him would be the most effective way to end the threat, I'm quite ready to see that happen already...but I doubt that will happen, makes for too much of a "well, why did he survive to THIS point?" problem.

Question... have we poked at how whoever provided the maps wasn't worried about Zuko being in with that spirit, but had some sort of strong view about Azula being there...and she has just arrived?

Hope the epic bragging and threats stick enough to keep the bug from grabbing Azula.

Huh, that's an excellent question, Foxfier.

The thing is, Zuko already scared it enough to go back to it's boiling lake of a home. I don't think it will be trying anything funny after Zuko laid the spiritual smackdown on it. Besides, Azula was nearly done in by something even stronger: Makoto aka Fire Lady Tejina. The kanaloa shouldn't be able to possess her now, not with her brother, Ty Lee, Mai, Onmitsu and Dai Li about.

Zuko's main problem stems from the fact that he has TOO MUCH dragon in him, and he knows it! He knows he doesn't react like humans, or have the same ideals as people, as he demonstrates when he tells his family in Lituya Bay that he's 'worse than grandfather' when it comes to dealing with people.

Aang's problem is that he seems to be basing most of his interactions with people on how they would react if they were in the world he grew up in, and also he's trying to impress a pretty girl.

This does not excuse either of them when it comes to stupid, dangerous stunts. It gives reasons they may have done them, but it does not excuse them. Yes, they screwed up. But the main difference is that when Zuko screws up, he has people who will tell him so, and then make him/help him fix it. Aang has people who either try to tell him it wasn't his fault, or who tell him he screwed up but are ignored, and then he doesn't have to take responsibility for what he did. He avoided the whole 'learn your lessons gradually' thing most kids go through as they grow up and take on more responsibility, and this has completely screwed him over because now he has to fix things and HE DOESN"T KNOW HOW. Frankly? I feel kind of sorry for him and the gAang. They have some serious karmic backlash coming.

Also, on the 'guestright' thing- I'm not going to get into that, but Aang offended Agni by striking one who was specifically chosen by Agni to do something. Someone who Agni himself sought out and reincarnated before his time. Also, Aang is interfering in Zuko/Kuzon's ability to fulfill his promise- to drag him back and make him apologize. That has to tick off Guanyin.

Another landmine: Remember what was mentioned about Zuko's scar? (See below.)

Katara got hit. With water. By someone she trusts. Not the same chi nexus or whatever, but I halfway remember Aang's wound (about the same place) being bad for the same reason.

I think Aang might be forced to learn fire healing to heal Katara's spirit.

Long quote from chapter 9: "I checked some of my scrolls yesterday," the healer informed him. "I was searching for anything that might explain what happened. I didn't find it, but I found something else. Something I'd nearly forgotten." She gave him a sober look. "He was given that scar by someone he trusted."

Iroh winced. Which, he knew, was answer enough.

"It's not directly on one of the chakras, but a blow there, where so many of the body's channels come together, with a massive force of chi behind it…. If that wound had been dealt by a waterbender, I would have a patient with no will, no desire to live. An empty shell, who would want - nothing."

Iroh straightened, the dreadful meaning sinking home. "One whose inner fire had been extinguished."

Amaya inclined her head. "Just so."

"So my nephew-"

"Has survived surprisingly well," the healer stated. "You must care for him deeply, for him to have even been able to sip that comfort." She glanced toward the screens blocking off the garden. "He's had years of drought. Whatever happened… I don't know if it was the spirits, or simply being that close to death. The scar is there. But the energies it blocked are beginning to flow again."

"Love, and family, and the ability to adapt," Iroh murmured.

Foxfier, what an incredible theory you have. Now here's something worth speculating over!

There's something I'm not sure about. Until Aang and Katara actually talk it out first, I don't think Katara feels any different about Aang. She's his most stalwart ally (well, actually, that's Toph) and truest friend - remember, even after being blasted by that metal door that Aang accidentally threw at her, she still believes and trusts him. Zuko is sure to explain to Katara that Aang had been possessed by the spirit of the Boiling Rock's lake, so I don't think she'll stop believing in him. She will, however, be more wary about spirits that don't like humans, that they don't necessarily have to be all Fire.

By this time, I do think that Katara will be able to differentiate Aang from the Avatar Spirit. What will disenchant Katara the most, I believe, is that the strongest bender in the world, the Avatar, can be possessed by a lesser Spirit. Aang was possessed by the kanaloa. He couldn't talk to it at all. He was utterly powerless to stop it as it ended up hurting her and turning to attack her friends and family. All this time, the gAang has seen Aang do some pretty awesome things. Getting the Ocean to stop the Fire Navy from taking out the Northern Water Tribe (even if I'm still confused as who was doing the driving - Aang or Tui?), for instance. That Aang was able to get Hei Bai to stop rampaging was also good. Most of the time, the gAang are protected from most (malicious) spirits because of Aang, because he is the Avatar. They do not have that privilege anymore.

For a while, the members of the gAang have been riding on the Avatar's good luck. I always thought it was unfair for Toph to have to be hamstrung by Aang in her deal to teach him earthbending, and now, she will realize the consequences of her own folly.

It really depends on if she has any will— the idea of Katara without a will is... horrifying. Not angry, not hopeful, just... there, and not there.

I'm not sure who was driving with Tui, as well; I'd GUESS that it was something like Aang being caught up in excitement, but that's partly because I think he's so enthusiastic.

Just read it. Huh...so Hakoda's finally getting it. Just because you don't want to hurt someone, bender or not, doesn't mean you won't - later. It's good to see him finally opening his mind. Like father, like daughter, I suppose. Hey wait...just where is Tao? Since Hakoda is fine and not being interrogated in the Boiling Rock, shouldn't Tao be with him as well?

And one of my guesses were right. Lituya Bay. Zuko is at his auntie's domain. Hurrah.

When Amak said there's something worst in the Boiling Rock, I wasn't sure what he was referring to. Then I thought, what if it's the Onmitsu? Asides from the former Fire Lady Tejina paying the prisoners a "visit", I can't imagine what else can be worst.

"Byakko doesn't want to fight this war," Hakoda thought out loud. "Why?"

"Because it's wrong. Because they love to fight, but hate to kill. Because most of Byakko's people live on Mount Shirotora, which is a deathtrap waiting to go off if they lose too many firebenders. Take your pick." Amak scooped a thin thread of water out of thin air, braiding it between his fingers. "But most of all? Because Lord Kuzon was an airbender's friend. And that child, he couldn't save." He whistled softly. "You have no idea what a firebender will do to regain their honor."

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I'm still stuck on exactly why no firebender will ever tell that to anyone else directly, even when it's the only action that will keep things from exploding, and will only say it at all if they think they won't be heard. Guy who said this is a waterbender, speaking for his firebender wife. Zuko only said, "My Nation isn't Zhao. My Nation isn't Sozin." when he was cursing the Ocean and there was no-one else around.

I brought this up earlier - whenever confronted, firebenders always change the subject to, "yeah, we're going to die because of what we did, can we move on?" Are they all that Pavlovian-conditioned to fear talking about it? They're okay with saying they'll be punished, but not with admitting guilt? Is that inherent to Fire?

Anyone else see Zuko get introduced to Yakone? (I laughed so hard.)

Kalaong, firebenders aren't the Fire Nation, and the Fire Nation is NOT the Fire Lord. Byakko remains fiercely independent despite being part of the Caldera - and several more hate being boxed into one neat little compartment of stereotypes. People are much, much, MUCH more complicated than their ethnicity, nationality, or abilities. Amak and Karasu are proof of that, as are the other minor O Cs in the story.

Yakone...heh. That is funny, isn't it, donahermurphyabc?

Shimmer712, I never actually thought that Aang was attacking a guest. The Temple isn't really Aang's, since the Monks and Nuns don't believe in worldly possessions or property. Still, it was an Air Nomad's safe haven...huh. Is that why Shih was so angry that he confronted his own son with his sword? I just thought Shih was trying to keep Aang safe, and I still think that's so.

"Growing up we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow the war was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our "greatness", they hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world! And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness."

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Straight answer, please. Why is it that no Embers!verse Firebender ever admits to any other living being that the war is wrong? They make excuses, they say that they're going to suffer, but they never tell someone, "The War Is Wrong." Zuko would rather be treated like a monster than tell people, "THE WAR IS WRONG." That's what I keep hoping he'll say, and last chapter he finally said it to himself and the Ocean...

Only he didn't. He said Zhao and Sozin didn't represent the Fire Nation. Is he saying he would have fought the War more civilly? Brought True Civilization in the wake of conquest?

Kalaong, I don't know about Iroh or Zuko but every other Fire Bender is still loyal to Ozai and saying the war is wrong may break loyalty.

Zuko broke his loyalty MONTHS ago, and he STILL can't say The War Is Wrong. I say that means that Something Is(Nightmarishly) Wrong With HIM.

Maybe Zuko is one of those people that believe that actions are louder than words, but because of cultural differences people cannot see that?

You could say that that is the key thing that keeps screwing things up; every time the exiles interact with the rest of the world, they keep trying to be honorable according to their own ideas of honor, but none of them get that the first thing prospective allies want to hear from them are those four words; The War Is Wrong.

To an outside observer, it looks like they awkwardly talk around it or attempt to change the subject. If they've always been like this, then Kyoshi's temper tantrum suddenly looks very understandable. Instead of admitting the Waegu are troublesome, they say, "To my knowledge, neither myself nor any of my allies support piracy." Lawyerspeak. And the only people that doesn't piss off are lawyers and judges. And Kyoshi was not in the mood for smarmy, long-winded missives after her son was murdered. It's possible that she never learned about Loyalty because every time they tried to tell her about it, they went into Laymans Terms and pissed her off.

Wonder how Amak and Karasu's relationship was able to work out if her instinct whenever she's pissed off is to start using twenty-syllable words and misdirection...

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"He grew up in court," Karasu stated. "Nephew. You're among kin."

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...He got used to it? Amak never understood it, but simply got used to it because he had nowhere else to go! The key to the ENTIRE PROBLEM OF THEIR WORLD is that Firebenders are psychologically incapable of leaving "court mode" when under pressure! And everyone else sees "going formal" as an admission of guilt!

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(Chapter 77)

He's afraid of me. Why would he be afraid, if he hasn't done anything wrong?

Unless he just hasn't done it yet.

I knew it. I knew we couldn't trust him.

Kalaong, taking quote from Katara's thoughts from that chapter does not make a very good example. Especially when she found out the secret that everyone has been keeping from her for her own sanity and Aang's.

It's still a key element - perhaps the key element. Fire Nationals fall back on protocol and ritual when under stress because they're all simply too damned short-tempered to handle tense situations in any other manner. To someone without that nature and that training? It sounds evasive if not deceptive.

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Kyoshi: (pissed off) "Did you send the pirates to kill my son?"

Great Name: (terrified) "I want my lawyer."

Kyoshi: (butchers important-looking person like a flying pig)

The formality of FN great names and Caldera nobles probably IS off-putting to the Southern Water Tribe, and anyone else who isn't accustomed with vicious courts or at least noble formality.

It's a very good point you have about this furthering the division/conflict between people of different cultures and social class. I'm not sure we can apply it so easliy to the situation of Amak, though. Or at least not wholly to him getting used to it because he had nowhere else to go. Understanding different cultures isn't just important for the Magnificent Bastard- people can to be willing to overcome a lot of cultural barriers (and put a LOT of effort into understanding those different cultures) when it's important to their relationship with someone they care about. (I bet Karasu was showing a lot of interest in understanding the Southern Water Tribe's traditions, not just becuase she wanted to be able to take good care of her people in Lituya Bay.) :)

As for Amak and Karasu, while I'm sure she's able to fall into court formal fairly easily (her family wouldn't have neglected her training for that) I'm not sure it would be as reflexive as it would be for anyone who'd lived in the Caldera, at least not around her own people in the Bay.

Now, I doubt Zuko's making a deliberate decision to NOT admit the war is wrong- when I read through his interactions with people, I got the impression that HE was under the impression it was kind of "understood" that the war is wrong. Kind of as a baseline for meeting with people from other nations. Or at least the FN atocities during the war were wrong things. You know, like before you might make truces with people, you first determine that they a) don't kill puppies for fun b) don't eat people c) don't think that what happened to Katara's mom or Ping was okay, or necessary collateral damage, or didn't count as as bad becuase they were from different countries at war, or ANYTHING but UTTERLY, TOTALLY horrible and wrong. (Clarification: Different bad things happend to Pin and Katara's mom, but both were utterly awful and Zuko agrees that it's unjust. Not trying to imply the same bad things happened to both of them. Sorry.)

Clarification: You have a point that no one explicitly denies the cultural imperialism the FN tries to inculcate in its kids when speaking to OUTSIDERS.

I think that while Zuko has come to recognize that it's wrong (see him refute Teruko's views on fragile earth maidens in the Beach, or tell his soldiers to stop insulting Sokka for being a "barbarian" when the state of the South Pole is a result or the FN's war), it's true the rest of the FN isn't as open-minded. Even among those who want to stop the war.

Changing these attitudes will take time. (Keep in mind that Teruko was from Byakko, and presumably a bit familiar with Water and Air, and still prone to being dismissive of Earth Kingdom women who didn't fight.) Going "Wow, we were taught in school that you were all horrible uncivilzed barbarians and mudpeople but I found out that's not true, now lets talk about working together," would probably not win him many allies. (Can you honestly imagine Zuko being able to use TACT in that kind of conversation? Whoever he was talking to would probably want to kill him mere seconds after he started opening his mouth. The guy is horrible at diplomacy.)

I think how much a reader might be annoyed be the FN members not being so explicit that the War is wrong depends on how you view the story. From a long-range view, that takes into account how the author is putting things together, I can see why you're frustrated we haven't had the equivalent of a Jeong-Jeong yet, to balance things out. But from a more character-centric view, for the characters Vathara has created or elaborated on (Zuko, Iroh, Teruko, Sadao) there dialogue thus far fits the circumstances they are in now and/or have grown up in. WHEN we see them also matters- Iroh, for example, probably had to admit the war was wrong before becoming grandmaster of the White Lotus.

Shidan admits what happened was wrong, when talking with Saoluan. He explains the dragons reasons, yes- but his explanation of motives is so alien, I think it's clear that this does not fuctnion as any kind of excuse for the actions (and inactions) of many dragons and FN people.

Umm, that is still not a good example, because asking for a lawyer is NOT an admission of guilt. I am seriously starting to detest that trope. Point is, Byakko had very little, if anything, to do with the genocide, and are actively subverting the war. I do not understand why every single person who identifies as Fire must suddenly grovel at the feet of their "betters" or they're people without honor or morals. NOT everyone there is a genocidal monster, or else All Germans Are Nazis, even today. I think most people with sense believe that the war is wrong, but I don't see how expecting them to flagellate themselves is going to solve most of their problems or actually STOP the war and Koh's ambitions. It's not negotiating if one side gives into every demand, because they are monsters and deserve it. The Treaty of Versailles did EXACTLY that, and we all know how that went.

Seriously, Lituya Bay is probably doing the most to foster a lasting peace after the end of the war. Raking every single person of Fire ancestry over the coals for what generations of madmen did is only going to fuel more wars.

EDIT: Apologies for the rant, I have had a VERY bad week, and self-expression sans explosions is difficult right now. As is, apparently, reading comprehension. Yes, to someone who doesn't know how the formality works, it would sound evasive, but butchering someone who doesn't tell you what you want to hear is counterproductive. Right now, things are so tense that action must be taken immediately for the sake of the world AND humanity itself. Refusing to deal with someone until they've debased themselves to your satisfaction is not just useless, it's dithering. When things are something resembling stable? THEN people can air their grievances. Right now, though? NOT the time.

But when you've been brutalized and deceived and marginalized, and someone starts getting all formal and evasive? That cuts you. What you want is empathy, at least an acknowledgment that harm was done. And Fire Nationals go into court mode in delicate situations such as those. That works well among themselves, when they're used to constant intrigue - "Honor is everything. When knives gleam, you have to know who you can trust." Among less protocol-minded sorts? It has the exact opposite effect. It sounds like a schmoozing used car salesman.

It's also why most believe that Only Bad Guys Call Their Lawyers - if someone's innocent, they'll be honest with you. Except that IRL? If the cops show up, they've already decided to arrest you. That means you'd better wrap yourself in bulletproof protocol or you'll end up a gold star on their conviction record. And Firebenders all operate that way - they don't show up in full armor unless they expect to get into a fight.

And another thing: Aang just inadvertently committed the Embersverse version of the Red Wedding. If the consequences of THIS aren't absolutely horrific, I'd be shocked. To any fans of A So IAF in here, we may end up with a Rat Cook incident at the LEAST. I do NOT want to be at the Boiling Rock when they get there.

Honestly, I think the crux of the problem here is that most Fire nationals would give their version of, "you think, Captain Obvious?" if asked directly if they think the war was wrong. To them, words are useless, for the most part. It's actions that count, so domains like Byakko are basically shouting to the world that they think the Fire Lord sucks when they actively undermine his orders. To the rest of the world? ;;shrugs;; Without those little, useless words, they will NEVER believe in their sincerity. That's something that I think the rest of the world has to work on, because until they get how Fire deals with wrongdoing and guilt, they think that Fire is incapable of it. And Fire has, by this point, given up on trying to explain.

Apologies for the rant, I have had a VERY bad week, and self-expression sans explosions is difficult right now. As is, apparently, reading comprehension. Yes, to someone who doesn't know how the formality works, it would sound evasive, but butchering someone who doesn't tell you what you want to hear is counterproductive. Right now, things are so tense that action must be taken immediately for the sake of the world AND humanity itself. Refusing to deal with someone until they've debased themselves to your satisfaction is not just useless, it's dithering. When things are something resembling stable? THEN people can air their grievances. Right now, though? NOT the time.

---

Except, why would anyone sane share a lifeboat with someone who appears to be an unrepentant and elegant thief/murderer/rapist if they didn't have a choice? Or would you do everything you could to get the creepy guy out of the picture before he decides to kill you and drink your blood? How can you trust someone when you have absolutely no reason to believe that they mean you anything but harm? A little debasement goes a long way in equalizing you with victimized people. And Firebenders would rather die(and in some cases, better yet kill the weak victim and drink his blood) than give it.

---

That's something that I think the rest of the world has to work on, because until they get how Fire deals with wrongdoing and guilt, they think that Fire is incapable of it. And Fire has, by this point, given up on trying to explain.

---

And given that Fire is the one killing everyone else, the only one with even a snowball's chance in hell of figuring out "how Fire deals with wrongdoing and guilt" is a certain careless Avatar.

Though Sokka might, might, might have enough conscious control over whatever happened to him to figure it out. But Temul is rather overbearing, and Sokka's new instincts may make him as blind to his former attitudes as any Fire National, rendering the whole thing pointless.

I figure most Fire National's don't outright state the war is bad for the same reason when I discuss an atrocity on the internet most of the posts aren't some variation on "This is bad." We'll discuss causes and solutions but just talking about how bad it is is both useless and obvious.

It's also really "informal". And if you're the one being casually discussed like a test subject, it's humiliating and infuriating.

It kind of reminds me of some of the bullying arguments I've had about Casey Heynes - if you remember it vividly, it looks triumphant. But to the 90% who just coasted through their childhood, as neither victim nor victimizer, if you've never been bullied, it must look brutal and insane. And speaking as someone who's been bullied, all the formalized clinical critiques of bullying piss me off like Holocaust denialism.

Someone has to say NO - and keep saying it until it sticks. Unless you say it out loud and plainly, all I can think, like Kyoshi, is that you're a would-be pirate who wants a letter of marque.

blackflamerose, you take the words right out of my mouth. Actions do speak louder than words. I'm a little confused about what you said. What is a "Red Wedding"? Something about this sounds awfully familiar...

Except the Fire Nation's actions have been without context. As for "Red Wedding"? It's from A Song Of Ice And Fire.

;;headtilt;; Been severely bullied myself, never heard of Casey Heynes. Doesn't hack me off when I see people clinically talking about it; actually, I rather enjoy reading what other research has found about the psychology, sociology, etc. This may be because I'm an academic at heart, and fascinated by what makes people tick. That said, I did have a period when trusting people was pretty much impossible, and I questioned EVERYONE's motives. The only reason I stopped? I had the revelation that if I kept doing this, I was not only going to be angry all the time, they were going to win. I REFUSED to give them the satisfaction. It was never about making sure I got revenge or making them debase themselves in front of me, it was about ME. Living well really was the best revenge, to use a cliche.

Not everyone is going to react the same way to trauma, you can't sum up the whole of a person by any one trait. In universe? Not all of Water are Morally Myopic to a sociopathic degree, not all of Earth are conservative to the point of stagnation, not all of Fire are genocidal monsters just waiting to impose their will upon others, and not all of Air are so removed from the world that they are casually paternalistic to the rest of it. If one assumes that unless they act a certain way, Fire feels no guilt, then I suppose one could also assume that a Water Tribesman would leave them to die if a ship wrecked and there was only one spot in the lifeboat. In that case, I'd prefer sharing with the Fire National, since at least I know they'd save me because their honor demanded it.

EDIT: Posting from my phone, for some reason it double posted. Ugh.

Thanks, Kalaong. A Song of Ice and Fire...I will put that on my list of books-I-must-read. The Wheel of Time now finished, I can turn my attention elsewhere.

blackflamerose, as mentioned to Shimmer712, I didn't think of Zuko being Aang's guest. He's an unhappy tag-along who volunteered to a just-as-much reluctant Avatar. If anyone ought to be crying out against the breaking of guest-right, it's Shih. The Western Temple is Shih's house, I realize, not Aang's. Shih allowed Zuko to rest there, and then he allowed the gAang and Zuko again to rest there. Shih is mad, but he's not going to take it out against his own son, whom he loves very much.

@cetraskies: Yes. Read it. Fantastic. To explain my example: the Rat Cook was a cook at one of the Night's Watch fortresses. One night, he served for dinner a bacon pie to a visiting king, which the king loved and asked for seconds. The kicker? Unbeknownst to the king, the pie wasn't just bacon: the other meat was the king's own son. The cook had done it because the king had wronged him in some way. However, the prince was a guest at the fortress. The gods were so angry at this breach of guest right that they turned the cook into a giant white rat incapable of eating anything but his own young. Sounds like a prime spirit story for this fic, seriously.

Yes. I got the impression that Shih was mad at Aang- but more than that, mad at HIMSELF. He's the adult.

The only adult. Unless you count Kuzon, who might be dead, again.

And Shih doesn't know for sure whether or not his son just killed the reincarnation of Aang's best friend, (the guy who saved and sheltered all of Aang's family) but he feels responsible. Poor guy.

Huh. Did Kuzon know Shih was Aang's father? Zuko doesn't seem to have remembered. (He also seemed to have forgotten about Sokka mentioning Hama, but that might be the aftereffects of the lightning his aunt mentioned.)

...I actually kind of hope that, after the Boiing Rock, they all stop by the Western Temple again, or somehow let Shih know everyhting turned out okay.

On a lightly related note: Zuko's Aunt Chisen married an archer! The guy whose name means "Wings." (And as Aang mentioned getting in trouble for seeing the archers with Kuzon, I bet the ones in Byakko aren't merely chi-users but have Air blood.) Currently betting that Zuko is related to Aang through that one cousin born in the spring.

...Am now wondering what happened to Zuko's stuff. He probably brought his swords on the trip with the gAang. And now Aang's huddling close to Appa with all the Dead Zuko Stuff that Zuko packed and "won't ever get the chance to use." Ouch.

The only upside to this- if Zuko asks his aunt for the gift of a pair of swords, he'll come out of the search for Shiyu with TWO pairs of swords. A net gain! (I have a terrible sense of humor.)

Honestly, I'm very optimistic about the overall effects of the upcoming Boiling Rock adventure for future group dynamics. I want them all to be happy and together and relieved that no one is dead, yay!

...No theories on whatever water (or fire) spirit is hanging around the Boiling Rock right now, but I doubt adding chi-benders to the mix will help any. Poor gAang. Poor Aang. If onmitsu do catch him, I hope nobody gets very far with Harmonius Accord. (Although Aang might be able to snap out of it like Ty Lee did, or at least resist for a while.)

blackflamerose...do you mean to imply that the thing that Amak was talking about "something worse" aren't Onmitsu, Makoto, or even (what I have recently realized) prison ghosts, but the Great Spirits themselves?

If that is why Shih is so angry...no, stupid me. He's scared SHITLESS. Not for himself, but for his wayward son. I think I am informed of the sword-waving, now.

Major disconnect to non-Fire Nationals, though. If Fire Nationals see allies under attack, they'll assume it's a duel and only give moral support? People who don't hurt each other for fun tend to freak out over that kind of thing. I'm your proverbial pudgy fat otaku binge eater, and if someone was trying to set one of my few friends on fire, I'd make like Sherlock Holmes in A Game Of Shadows and tackle him right off the side of the temple - don't care if I die as long as I take him out.

@cetraskies: yeah, that's more or less what I meant. In a lot of feudal/ancient cultures, guest right was one of the only ways to ensure dealing with people who weren't you wasn't going to be a death sentence for you. Heck, Sodom and Gomorrah happened over a breach in guest right in the Bible (not that most people now get that). Breaking it pretty much meant no one would EVER trust anything you say. EVER. In A Song of Ice and Fire, the Red Wedding destroys House Frey's reputation completely. The Rat Cook...nuff said. Aang may not have meant it, but he tried to kill someone who was his guest and under his protection. Spirits have gone after people with lethal intent over MUCH less...this? Oh, god. It's going to be a bloodbath.

@Kalaong: But that's exactly WHY Aang was in the wrong. He doesn't know enough about the Fire mentality or spirits/biology (how DOES one classify a sea serpent, anyway?) to realize that Zuko was actually helping Katara. He assumed Zuko was attacking her, he roared in to defend her...and, as far as he knows, killed the only person who could help bust out Shiyu. All because he assumed that Fire=sociopathic monster and didn't think. This one is entirely on Aang. He had the best of intentions, but as far as the Spirit World is concerned, he attacked a guest under his protection for no reason. Even in the Fire Nation, allies getting attacked would have all of the attackee's friends and family roaring in to help; duels actually have to be declared, accepted and arranged. No declaration=unlawful attack.

@blackflamerose: I know about guest-right. I am a student of history, and remember enough mythology to know that the Gods did NOT appreciate hospitality-abuse. Zeus is a womanizing bastard who got away with just about anything, but he would smite those who did not welcome and take care of homeless vagrants and wanderers.

Guys, how much does Shih know about the Great Spirits? His own patron Spirit, Tengri? I was pming one of the other reviewers about a year ago, and I said I did not want to know just what Tengri, the Autumn Lord, would do if a child of his own (is he really? He's the Avatar, belonging to no one Nation or culture) broke taboo. Poor Gyate, and her baby boy was alive when she last saw him, too! Agni, I could understand. But the other Great Spirits? We all know that Spirits don't discriminate, and from what Amak said, the Avatar may be the strongest spirit and bender in the world, but he is not immune to spiritual backlash.

...I think Shih might accompany the gAang for a little while longer. As much as I would love a showdown between Aang and Ty Lee, the little fool may just end up needing daddy dearest' help.

@cetraskies: Heh. Didn't realize you were a history student. My bad. Yeah...Shih may have to tag along for a while, cause a guest right breach this big? ::exhales:: Like I said,bloodbath.

Spirit laws are starting to remind me of the Alicization arc in Sword Art Online; the hero is trapped in a virtual world with encoded laws that seem fair enough - don't steal, don't kill, etc...

But tying a woman up - I mean "playing with" rope - doesn't set them off. Nor does removing her clothing while they're in that state. Or removing your own...

But killing a would-be rapist? That gets you tossed in a dungeon and starved and beaten.

You can't be serious, blackflamerose. Yue likes Aang, and she continues to be a great ally. Her brother may be angry at Aang for the right reasons, but the Moon would certainly never attack the Avatar, the Spirits' Chosen One. My clinically detached history researcher/mythology buff says that Aang has incurred the wrath of the Spirits, but as we both know, Zuko is still alive. Yue would know that her champion is alive, and so would Agni, and the other Spirits would know via the Moon and Sun.

Why couldn't it be Makoto at boiling rock? She had to be living somewhere and it doesn't seem like Katara killed her with the bay during the invasion. Byakko probably knows about her, which is why Amak probably knows as well.

She may not be in the Lake inself but it could be her territory and hideout.

And Aang and the others are heading there.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

Kalaong, you cannot be serious about judging Spirits by human nature. Don't be naive. The Spirit World has laws of its own, which humans are not meant to fully comprehend. You might as well ask for the gift of Seeing the future.

Shimmer712, Makoto wasn't mad that Katara dunked her: "Swallowing hard, Katara reached for the waves below. The dragon had hit like a thunderbolt, but she had to be sure.

The water was empty, except for laughter."

Makoto planned for that. I think she let Katara win one over her, knowing that Aang was already delayed, and the Invasion failed.

The only wrath that ought to be on Aang's head is that of his father's, not the Spirits'. Let that and Aang's own guilt be enough to punish him at the Boiling Rock.

It still makes me wonder how many times an hour spirits slaughter each other over someone putting the tea in their cup before the milk.

A good examination of that would be in the Bartimaeus trilogy by one Jonathan Stroud. Though, Kalaong, you seem to think that Spirits would have such a purpose. Do they even need to? We know humans do.

As for any other serious enemies the gAang may have at the Boiling Rock...

...if the Great Spirits do show up, does that mean the Onmitsu get to go after Aang? If they know that their patron Spirit can do it, why can't they? So they will reason.

Hmm. The Bartimaeus Trilogy? May have to check that out.

Get used to the footnotes. They are hilarious to read, though. Very dark for a child's series, but otherwise, very good. It delves into the relationship between Spirits and humans. Something that the great Bartimaeus said is that Purpose is for humans, and spirits...well, spirits are. I don't know if this will help your understanding of spirits.

When you say "Purpose is for humans", this is what comes to mind.

---

Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson. Vagaries of perception. The temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose! And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself. Although, only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson, Why? Why do you persist?

---

The kind of nihilism that you seem to use to define spirits makes me wonder exactly how many millions of allies Koh has.

---

We are legion. The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom.

Kalaong, you're confusing me with what a character said from a book. Mind that that character is a magical being - a jinn - that has not the best view of the human race. As much as I enjoy Bartimaeus, you would do well not to offend me or the other posters of these forums.

Not every Spirit is out to get humans. The reason why Koh has such a big grudge over the human race is that they take too much of the Avatar Spirit's time and attention, which is better served towards their own kind. Hurting the world they live in, humans do damage the world, and that is NOT alright with many spirits. Small wonder some have taken Koh's side.

Not accusing you of nihilism, just a great many spirits.

---

Causality, there is no escape from it. We are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it. To understand Why. Why is what separates us from them, you from me? Why is the only real source of power, without it you are powerless.

---

If spirits have no purpose, what is the source of their power? A domino falls because the domino behind it pushed it. A window breaks because a stone flew through it. Spirits exist... because they exist? It gets all weird and self-defeating.

---

Their magic tool is the blank-out, the pretense that nothing can come into existence past the voodoo of their refusal to identify it.

---

EDIT:Don't mind me, I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. Maybe that's the "point".

It's nice that people try to understand those not of our kind, but sometimes the encounter is not always kind. The best I can come up with is that trying to define a spirit by human means is at best an exercise in futility. It just doesn't work.

Chapter 63: "Spirits are the heart of everything that exists," Katara said confidently. "Remember the Ocean spirit? He was terrifying. But that's what he's supposed to be. The sea's not friendly, and it's not safe. It is. If you honor him, you get good catches, and you always come home. If you don't, storms pull you under." She waved toward the east. "Or the Painted Lady. She wanted to be kind. To help her people. And I was trying to help, but - I didn't respect her. You can't use a real spirit's name for yourself, not like that! It hurts them. They have to be true to what they are. Or..." She swallowed. "Gran-Gran didn't like to talk about it. But the spirit-born stories - they make it pretty clear."

The explanation that Katara gives is similar to what Barty said about his own kind. Mind you, both are fictional characters, but they resonate throughout time.

Kalaong, if you want to understand the Fire Nation - Japan-expy that it is - I suggest you read [this: http://www.thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-Primer.html]. Read it as many times as you need; it'll clear up a lot of the issues you seem to keep running into.

Blackflamerose, I only now have just come to realize why the Spirits would punish Aang, if not outright kill him.

He is the Avatar - the human bearer of the World Spirit - there to mediate between spirits and humans. The Great Spirits were fine without humans until they showed up, then some of them learned "bending" from some Spirits (La and Tui) or the Spirit's creatures (badger-moles, dragons, Air bison). There was a sort of (uneasy, for some) agreement between Spirits and humans pre-Avatar era, as shown in the yaoren. Sometime after that, the Avatar Spirit decides to learn more about humans - by becoming a human, reincarnating through many human lives and gaining EXP. It is not certain what the Great Spirits and the World-Spirit think about each other, but there had to have been an accord between them, for the Avatar (the human) is generously being allowed the use of bending, a gift from the Spirits.

Aang may have the generous backing of the Spirits, but with that luck, comes certain rules that must be followed. Abusing his gift as wantonly as he did, whether he meant to or not, is a grave breach of contract. The Spirit and the Avatar had a deal. Aang broke that deal.

...and looks like I was wrong thinking Guanyin may offer Aang some comfort. I always thought that it was not fair that Aang can break his word and not suffer any fallout while Toph, his teacher and friend and my favorite character, can die if she breaks hers (which she never will and has no reason to). She may be even more furious than I am with Aang at making a fool of her child.

Really a shame Vathara doesn't want to include the comics; The Search introduces the possibility that Ozai isn't Zuko's father - which would explain perfectly why Ozai's been trying to kill Zuko for years, to the point of encouraging Azula to do it for him. Though it's possible that the evidence to this was doctored...

The comics were made after the original series, Kalaong. Maybe some fanfic writers will consider it, but this story has been on the AU train for quite a while, so the comics are null and void.

Now, does anyone think that the next chapter may have the Great Spirits convening, discussing, debating and possibly coming to a conclusion about the Avatar? If they don't choose to send other lesser spirits in their wake to hound Aang, what else can they do? Maybe we'll get to see Gyatso, Ping, Lu Ten, Kya, and Gyate (Shih will be guarding his son and the gAang, warning them) again. Depending on how long it will take Hakoda and Zuko to get to the Boiling Rock, the gAang are on their own. Spirits can show up on their own with all speed, uninterrupted. Temul might be able to do something to help Sokka, but the rest? Boots' power is kind of...well, it is non-combatitive. Aang will be attracting the Great Spirits' wrath like no one else.

...ah-hah! That's it!

If Koh still feels anything like worry for its parent, Koh might end up backing Aang...or could wait for the Spirits to finish him so that Koh can free the Avatar Spirit from Aang's body.

Huh, this could be a bloodbath indeed. Spirits vs. Spirits.

Huh. I was re-reading chapter 78, and I just realized- no wonder Zuko kept thinking about Toph. The sea serpent pulls on the feeling of aloneness (that's probably why he was thinking about what Aang did, and then thought that Aang would not want people to look for him.) And the sea serpent also attacks the bonds of family, so thinking about them to combat aloneness wouldn't work, either. But Toph is someone he trusts utterly yet DOESN'T label as family, so the sea serpent couldn't quite attack their bond.

And no wonder he's being so pessimistic about Uncle Iroh using him. (I mean, yes, Uncle Iroh has been using Zuko, but he loves Zuko, too. Zuko's not mentally in great shape right now. Having a person who wasn't family he could depend on probably helped keep him alive.)

Speaking of keeping alive..

Now I'm wondering if it was a coincidence that the people who mostly survived defying loyalty to Sozin seemed to have been women and children. Kuzon, at fifteen, had help from Shidan to heal from breaking loyalty. But maybe his youth helped, too. Shidan wasn't able to save that many others, it seems like. And Temul survived without him. But the only other memebers of her clan- the only other great names in her family- were also women and children. Maybe Kuzon was loyal to his parents first, even if he was still loyal to the Fire Lord, and that was why it was easier to save him. Iroh did say that to break loyalty suddenly is fatal, but choosing between two loyalties can be survived. And Temul was likely loyal to her children first, as she was a mother.

As for the spirits in the Boiling Rock- well, I think we are finally going to see an evil Fire Spirit. (I am looking forward to much creepiness.) Although I don't think the Great Spirits will be overtly involved- they seem to enjoy more subtle measures- I expect it all to be suitably terrifying and awe-inspiring. But which I mean Shiyu using his Sagely knowledge and getting to show of HIS awesome, and Zuko bending lava. (He's totally going to have to, what with facing an angry "something worse" in the middle of a volcano. So looking forward to this.)

You have a point, donahermurphyabc.

The Spirits, in an effort to understand humans (though not necessarily always benevolent), teach humans lessons. The thing is, abusing hospitality is a big NO, and this is their world the humans are living in. They won't appear...but I doubt they'd need to. The Avatar is not above being educated as the Big Five see fit. That's why I mentioned the Great Spirits meeting and having a long over-due debate on how to teach Aang RESPECT amongst other things. I think Yue would have to agree that he must be punished.

Sending "back luck" the gAang's way would be kind of an opening, wouldn't it? Yes, there could be an evil Fire spirit at the Boiling Rock, but why stop at that? It doesn't even have to be a Fire spirit, since Aang broke his contract with the Spirits. Wind, water and earth can turn against them. Lesser spirits can be creeping up on them all as we speak (sorry, Sokka, but you jinxed yourself and the rest of the team). Oh...what if the Spirits decided to separate the gAang? Or pelt Aang with nightmares?

The gAang would have a very difficult time getting into the Boiling Rock then, since they're already way too obvious. If Azula's group happens to meet the gAang...that could end up as a very sufficient lesson to Aang. I'm still wishing for Aang and Ty Lee to meet and hash it out, physically and philosophically.

On a different note, how do you think the remaining Water Tribes will take the final result of Sozin's waterbender prison - that the Fire Nation can corrupt(Fire Nation apologists may hate the wording but screw them) waterbenders so completely that they can no longer safely associate with anyone save Fire Nationals? Meaning: what's to stop them from doing the same to everyone else? Even without a central Fire Lord, another "rogue" like those that supported the waegu could spend several decades covertly capturing and torturing Northern waterbenders until the Water Tribe has no benders anymore. And it's already established that waterbenders are the key to the existence of both Tribes - in the North they keep the nonbenders focused on external enemies, and in the South they are literally the difference between life and death in the frozen wastes. The Fire Nation(s) could forcibly assimilate not only the Water Tribes, but maybe even repeat Azula's takeover of the Dai Li; the ENTIRE WORLD could Win the War and Lose the Peace, because even the balkanized Fire Nations could still assimilate the other nations with loyalty bending or Hate Plague infection.

Hm.

I can understand "corruption" as referring to the treatment in prisons, that seems to align with Amak's feeling of taint. The problem with that argument is that Kuzon's memories in chapter 76 indicate "some had drifted away, taking ships to the Earth Kingdom to lose themselves in the faceless hordes of refugees." Those waterbenders seem to be safely associating with plenty of people who aren't fire nation nationals. The inclusion of this group also paints the choice not to return to the Southern Tribe as at least partially motivated by a desire to protect their tribe from further attacks. And, overall, interactions with fellow waterbenders they have settled with does not seem to be painted as dysfunctional.

If corruption was referring in more general terms to thier integration with another culture- that's a question that could prompt an interesting discussion. Have the waterbenders of the Foggy Swamp and Kyoshi Island been corrupted? The waterbenders of Kyoshi Island are clearly hiding, and Hakoda seems to disagree very forcefully with some of thier practices. There is clearly some divergence from the more "pure" concepts of Northern and Southern tribe. What was lost, what was gained- the Kyoshi islanders do seem to have lost something, if they don't feel comfortable practicing waterbending openly in the currenty political climate. Or does this grant them a freedom from traditional definitions and roles for waterbenders that have evolved over time? Does Languxe's use of a sword represent the evolution of a separate culture, or the loss of parts of a distinct Water Tribe identity which likely emigrated to Kyoshi Island some time ago? Questions of the full implications of any kind of cultural mixing are a fascinating topic, as are honest and open discussions of the many influences and conflicts that can shape a community.

It seemed to me that if a spirit-wounded waterbender lost their temper around any other Water Tribal, they'd literally infect them with their hate, driving them insane. Amak's precise words were;

---

"I would have poisoned the tribe!" Amak's hands clenched, ice sheathing each finger like a massive claw. "I'd have twisted my hate into everyone near me. Including your daughter!"

---

They literally can't interact with Water Tribals anymore, especially not in any spiritual sense. It's like they were all purposefully infected with a venereal disease or something. I especially doubt that they could teach waterbending, so there go whatever Southern forms they have - they're for Fire Nationals or nothing. If they'd been able to do the same to the North, there go the Water Tribes. Perhaps that was the point of the Earthbender prisons as well - ruin Earthbending for the Earth Kingdom, which probably couldn't persist without Earthbender contracts any more than the Water Tribes could without Waterbender family bonds. Remember that Azulon played longer games; Ozai was supposed to be the spymaster to Iroh's warlord.

As for cultural interaction? That's kind of a loaded topic, especially given that the Fire Nation consumes and assimilates other cultures; the pacifistic Air Nomads were forced to become hippie ninja in the service of others, the frontiersman Water Tribals are now just another set of Byakko's subjects. What will Zuko's Dragon's Wings make of his Earthbenders? Especially if the Comet wipes out a swath of the Earth Kingdoms?

I'd like to see what the Dragons' Wings earthbenders can do too, since they were not forced to come and aren't wounded physically or spiritually.

The waterbenders of Foggy Swamp and Kyoshi seem to have been where they are for quite a long time. They aren't "infected" and they aren't "tainted". The forms they have come from the migrants' adapting to their environment. I believe it was a natural progression. Also because they must have rebelled against the more "pure" forms of the North and South. I'm sure they would beg to differ with their mother tribes about certain traditions and methods.

Then there are the waterbenders of Ba Sing Se. We don't really see or hear much from them (except Amaya). Huh...wait. There are the former Southern waterbending refugees...and there's Amaya, who came to Ba Sing Se to get away from the politics of the Northern Water Tribe. She's the only one we've seen yet who hasn't been corrupted or tainted. Does that mean there could be others? Hehehehe...

As for cultural assimilation...Kalaong, you do realize that it's not Fire that has a monopoly, but Earth who wins here. You'd best blame Earth King Kuei for snatching away some Water, Fire and Air's people. From that quote donahermurphyabc took, and from the Ba Sing Se arc, waterbenders have been following the Earth King's rule for a while. And I highly doubt that ninja were invented by the Fire Nation/Japan-Expy. I distinctly remember from some sources that it was China who first came up with the concept of black-clad thieves/assassins running through the night. Though the Temple Airbenders went about detaching themselves from the world...yeah, right. Gyatso was said to be very clever, and I bet that the monks in power then knew just as much if not more (definitely much MORE) than any Fire or Earth courtier, and even meddled in worldly affairs than they'd care to admit.

...No one is disturbed by the revelation that if you torture a Waterbender with the absence of water long enough, they can't go back to their Nation? Or even share their bending techniques with their Nation? It's worse than killing them - more like turning them into Buffyverse vampires or something. They Can't Go Home Again. Someone told me once that Fire can't beat you up and steal your lunch money, but it seems like they can make it so if you try to go back to your family, you'll kill them without trying. Your only choices are suicide or servitude. Fire can steal people from other Nations. Irreversibly.

Amak just realized that those choices applied to all Firebenders under Kyoshi's decree, and learned to accept it as a common trait.

Screw it. To put it simply to everyone, "I wonder what would happen if someone kidnapped a bunch of Firebenders and made it so all other Firebenders go crazy in their presence." Wouldn't the Fire Nation go completely, genocidally apeshit over it?

If Amak and the others had gone straight home, they would have told stories of the FN being monsters, wouldn't that? They would have ensured that their people felt nothing but loathing. They would have basicallly brainwashed them into hating the FN (and yes, I know their anger is more than justified).

At this point, Amak and the others are okay hanging around WT people so basically, they've healed enough to go home. If they want.

But they have a new home they're attached to and if they try to return to the South Pole, they may led the nasty members of the FN there. And they still don't know how the FN knew when they had all the benders and when there were still some left to capture. Maybe there was a traitor, maybe it was something else like Makoto or one of her Water Spirits passing through and tattling. They don't know.

So do they stay or do they return to their home and risk endangering their people?

Hair prickled on the back of Hakoda's neck, hearing that old hate. He couldn't help but take a step back.

Amak glanced at him. Looked at where Hakoda's boots had been on the rocks, just moments before. And sighed. "There's your answer, Chief Hakoda. That is why I didn't come back."

"Anyone would be angry at what the Fire Nation did to us," Hakoda said bluntly. "You would have been welcome among the tribe-"

"I would have poisoned the tribe!" Amak's hands clenched, ice sheathing each finger like a massive claw. "I'd have twisted my hate into everyone near me. Including your daughter!"

Tide surged near them. Hakoda found himself gauging the distance to the foam, wondering how much warning he'd have.

Amak looked his way again, and shook his head. Straightened his shoulders, and looked out where one girl's sparks had just been doused by a fast stream of ice-water, leading to what looked like a general fray of water-splashing. "Even the most trained bender can slip, Chief Hakoda. And I wasn't even a warrior's age when they caught me. There's only so much pain a man can bear without lashing out at something. When Hama did, from within our prison walls... when she found a way out, a way that turned her into a monster..." He sighed, shoulders slumping. "Those of us who were still sane, wanted to die rather than become such a nightmare. Many of us did. We were shamed, Chief Hakoda. All of us. We were... tainted. When the ship we were put on was struck by lightning and foundered - some let the waves take them down."

---

...

When. They. Get. Mad. THEY. SHOVE. PSYCHIC. HATE. INTO. WATER. TRIBAL. HEADS!!!

...

The Fire Nation could literally shatter the entire planet with that kind of trick. Once they rape them into insanity, benders have three choices;

1. Go home and spread a psychic plague, driving the Fire Nation's enemies insane.

2. Kill themselves.

3. Join the Fire Nation.

How many "I Win" Buttons is Vathara going to give the Fire Nation?

What's next? Is the Comet going to give Ozai Neo's powerset?

That's kind of a natural response of an honor-based society whose benders have emotion controlling powers after they suffer horrific torture and dishonor, especially since one of their number further dishonored them all by becoming a monster to escape. It could have been the earth, air, or even other members of water— nothing special about fire.

It's pretty obvious that Vathara's been reading about POW psychological effects— probably the same source the Navy and Marines use for their "if you are caught, this is going to happen after you get home" classes, since I recognize it.

The water benders involved were all young and untrained, so— like Katara— they don't know how to not bend emotions. Probably brought up as a big hammer-over-the-head so Katara can make up with her dad, who is learning that bending isn't just like picking up a spear or knowing how to cook.

But being able to (semi)safely associate with damaged benders IS specific to Fire. All they need to do is torture all the other benders in the world and they not only win by default, they get entirely new elements to rule. The bender prisons now make perfect sense - everyone who doesn't die becomes new Fire Serfs. The Fire Lords seem to be David Xanatos-level schemers.

We'll no, we don't know how earth and air effects or is effected by emotions. We've seen no evidence that Toph for example would be effected by a water bender emotion bending. In fact when Katara is emotion bending Toph doesn't even notice. Nor does she ever seem to effect anyone emotionally as earth is bound by contract it's likely the only thing a powerful earthbender could do is help a person's resolve to fulfill that contract. (Like we see with Kuei) Only water seems to be able to affect, or be effected by emotions. Fire perhaps slightly but being the opposite of water can shield themselves.

Hmm. We've never gotten a good look at wounded Earthbenders. I wish Tyro and Haru had more lines. Did Katara leave a lasting mark on them by inspiring them to revolt in the Earthbender prison?

Fire is nothing special, like Foxfier said. The other elements have their own damaging effects.

Earth and Air...I don't think the Fire Lords are anything up to Xanatos' level of awesome, not all of them, that is. I can believe it of the Temple airbenders and perhaps some of the Earth Kings. More than monarchs, religious leaders can be just as power-hungry and corrupt, if not more. The only reason Fire seems so special is because it's happening now and we as the readers get a front row seat to all the action.

While Water and Fire are more towards feelings and thoughts, Earth and Air deals with compassion and Truth. And yes, we have seen Air affect others, such as in the time of Subodei and Xiangchen. True Metis, I have a feeling that maybe there's more to Earth than just making deals stick.

I think we know what the Earth and Air equivalents are: the Dai Li's mindbending and Harmonious Accord? Earth and Air mess with thoughts, in contrast with Water and Fire's tug on the emotions. We just haven't seen the mechanics of how they work, and what they have to do with compassion and truth - or whatever aspects of their elements are used.

The Western Temple isn't Aang's home, it's Shih's, so I don't think he can be considered Zuko's host. It was rash and a near fatal mistake but perhaps not as offensive to the spirits. Plus Zuko's nearly invisible to a lot of spirits - even if he is in Aang's company - so how many would notice? Makes me wonder if the Ocean was actually aiming for Zuko at all, or just so focused on Zhao that he just didn't see him. Still, a good thing he ducked.

No-one thinks that the imprisoned Earthbenders that Katara freed could now be de facto Water Tribals?

Girmie, I said the same thing before. Yes, the Western Temple is Shih's haunt, but it's not him who gets to decide whether or not Aang gets punished. The author is pulling on the ancient world and its myths, and often, Gods would smite mortals who dared to attack guests. The Great Spirits count on the Avatar as much as humans do to represent them. They have A CONTRACT. Aang broke that contract.

To wit, Yue all but gave Zuko, her water-yaoren, to the Avatar as much-needed help, and what did Aang do? Blow him off a cliff. Aang all but slapped her in the face. Now, he gets to pay for that. No one does that to Agni's little sister, Ocean's wife, certainly NOT the Avatar. Guanyin is the Goddess of Mercy and Compassion, but even she has her limits, and you know she stands for contracts and deals. It doesn't help that Toph, the Greatest Earthbender in the WORLD, one of her own children, is in contract to someone who doesn't honor debts or obligations. And he made her CRY. Tengri can't be too proud when the Avatar born to his element does something like this. If he isn't thinking of teaching Aang a lesson, I'd be shocked.

Remember in Chapter 73, Aang realizes that he asked for HELP. Well? The Spirits GAVE him their help. Pushing a guest off a cliff? One who went to help the Avatar? All but implies to the Spirits that their help isn't GOOD enough for the Avatar.

Kalaong-

They might be vulnerable to becoming double-benders, but the water benders from the prison didn't gain fire, even thought they were exposed to a lot of it. I suppose some could've, and just died before we got to see them...unless the dragon-children managed to heal them, somehow. Would the earth-benders have been "reaching" for water? Or asking non-Earth spirits for help?

I was talking about how the survivors of the waterbender prison are now effectively Fire Nation due to being rescued spiritually by firebenders. Katara did the same for several hundred earthbenders, so do they identify with the Water Tribe now?

@cetraskies, can the spirits tell the difference between "protecting Katara from mindbending" and "attacking Katara with firebending"? That was a really screwed-up situation, and spirits in general seem to recognize Katara as precious to Aang. Heck, even though the Avatar Spirit seems to be ambivalent toward humans in general in this milieu, it still freaks out when Katara is threatened, and submits to her when she reaches out to Aang.

Heck, on that note, I'm surprised that Zuko was even able to recognize Katara as Aang's "girlfriend" because he's still mostly Firebender - driven to choose a strong mate, not a nice one.

Kalaong, I doubt the Avatar Spirit has any sort of "affection" for Katara. The only reason it would move is if the vessel, currently Aang, moves with its power. And duh, anyone can see that Aang has a massive crush on Katara. Even if I had some speculation towards the Avatar Spirit and Katara that are now defunct...

As far as the the other Spirits are concerned, Zuko wasn't attacking a guest. The Avatar, on the other hand, did. There will be consequences to pay.

Actually, strike my bit about Zuko noticing that Aang likes Katara.

---

"Urgh," Zuko agreed, still nauseated. "Seriously? You think he's trying to impress Katara? Why?"

Toph crossed her arms. "There's something really weird about me having to tell you that, Sparky. You've got eyes. And people keep telling me she's pretty."

Zuko shook his head in disbelief, feeling sand's heat radiate to his toes. "Mai is pretty. Ty Lee is pretty. My sister is pretty."

---

He knows because Toph told him. The ones he called "pretty"? All hardcore, disciplined fighters who can kick his ass where Katara has a street fighter's attitude and disrespect. Even Toph is tournament-trained.

Though I'm still waiting for a Vathara Ex Machina involving Katara's ability to suppress the Avatar State. And my Big Wish in this fic, just below Zuko clearly stating to the Gaang that The War Is Wrong? Aang goes kablooie, Zuko craps his pants, and Katara quietly walks in and hugs the sweet airbender to shut it down.

Um...it's been very clear within the story that Zuko fears an insane Avatar. His actions and plans have been so that he can help Aang...from as far a distance as possible (yeah right, not with his luck) without getting drowned, buried, or blasted (which was precisely what happened, anyways). Everyone knows, reveres and/or fears the power of the Avatar.

Only a fool would not.

I still think his reaction would be funny as hell if he ever discovered that Katara can walk right into an Avatar State tantrum and hug it into submission. Especially as he likes to bash her so damned much.

On the Aang front in general? I've been finding some really insightful stuff in a really weird place; Garth Ennis' The Boys. Interspaced with all the sex, gore and superhero bashing are these deep, moving conversations on love, friendship and decency. Turns out he does a lot of that. Here's one that strikes me in the same place Aang himself does, from one of the sidestories, "Highland Laddie":

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...All that stuff about being a tough guy, or being more like this friend of yours who beat somebody up... You don't have it in you to be like that, Hughie. You had too nice an upbringing. Your mom and dad were too good to you. And I wish you could see that you're not less of a man, or some kind of inferior person, just because you can't be harsh and hard and cold.

---

And here's one from #71 Zuko needs to have inserted into his skull with that giant needle from Pulp Fiction;

---

...All that macho shit—that gunfighter, Dirty Harry bollocks—It looks tasty, but in the end it's fuckin' self-defeatin'. It just leaves you with bodies in ditches and headfuls of broken glass. Men are only so much use, Hughie. Men are boys.

;;reads last conversation chain since she went offline for a while. Blinks rapidly;;

Umm, I don't know where the idea came from that the Fire Nation can strip people of their cultural identity, as seen by the Lituya Bay waterbenders. That's not brainwashing or corruption, that's superpowered PTSD. With the lovely side effect of driving those around the waterbenders crazy due to empathic powers. Remember the wendigo? THAT'S why the tribes push people off ice floes. The waterbenders who settled in Byakko did so in order to not give their flashbacks to others, but as mentioned above, some of the others headed to the Earth Kingdom. There is pretty much no way the Fire Nation could have known about or planned for this effect on the captured waterbenders. Besides, if they'd had their way, the prisoners would have never escaped in the first place. Trying to paint this as an example of Vathara over favoring fire is a SERIOUS reach.

I agree: the surviving waterbenders were carrying out a version of what Katara describes as the Water Tribe treatment for mental trauma/illness - "if they feel the Cold Ones pushing them, making them want to do things ... maybe you can still save them. But even if they make it - it's better for the tribe if they just go north. Where the sun never goes away again." They've exiled themselves so they had a chance to recover and, if they didn't, wouldn't drag their people down with them.

cetraskies - sorry, I was skimming the thread and got confused about the points you were making. I don't think that the Great Spirits will confront Aang about his rudeness - apart from Yue, they seem to have been pretty hands off about the Avatar - but will leave that to Shih and Zuko, who were more closely involved. While Zuko becoming a yaoren might be partly a response to Aang's request for help, as Yangchen noted it is still Zuko's choice of whether to aid him or not, so he'd have precedent. Any malicious lesser spirits avoid the Avatar, so he won't notice a difference there but the rest of the Gaang might have to watch their backs if they get separated. Although it doesn't seem likely that Boiling Rock holds a small spirit...

Is Shih's protection what was keeping Boots away? or does Zuko's deal mean that Boots has to avoid him? And what exactly is Shih? IIRC, he said he wasn't exactly a ghost.

Kalaong - Zuko would probably think it was typical that Aang's fixation on Katara extends to the Avatar state. He'd have to acknowledge her courage in doing so, but I don't think he's ever thought her a coward. He considers her a dangerous enemy and has some respect for her, when he's not too angry to think straight. Unfortunately in Embers they've almost invariably met when one was already furious and the other wasn't far behind. Zuko can admit Katara's good points to himself and neutral parties, but the insults fly face to face.

Girmie, the Great Spirits aren't going to confront Aang on mere "rudeness". They have a more subtle approach to doing things - especially when teaching humans lessons. Attacking a guest is a great offense, has always been, in the Gods' eyes. Yue may have been kind to Aang...but even his actions have consequences. The Avatar got so much help, we tend to forget that he is not immune to the laws of the Spirit World. Abusing hospitality is one of the worst things that anyone, including the Avatar, can ever do. The Avatar broke their law.

Spirits don't forgive. And they never forget. Yue is no longer human.

Shih may be angry with Aang, but he's not ever going to punish his son. I believe he's going to stay with Aang to protect him, as well as the other gAang, from the onslaught of lesser spirits or whatnot the Great Spirits may send his way. I even think that Shih would get in contact with Gyatso so that maybe together, they can help Aang. Even if it is against the express will of their patron Spirit.

I wouldn't call it 'mere', rude behaviour is a big deal to the spirits: Asagitatsu almost fried Aang for trespassing, the Painted Lady possessed Katara and had the right to do worse for stealing her name. (Why does the Blue Spirit have no similar issue with Zuko? Do you think it's cos it's obviously a disguise or is there no actual spirit called that?) I think my problem with the idea is calling it a host/guest issue, it seems to me that it would be better defined as attacking an ally without warning. And the spirits have shown that they can adjust their lessons/revenge to take intentions into account.

According to Sokka: The spirits don't and can't forgive, but they do forget. That's why Hai Bei just dropped the whole thing when Aang showed him the forest would grow back. I expect that the Great Spirits have better memories, but they still won't hold it against Aang forever.

Sudden thought - it's not Yue, Agni or even Tengri that's going to be the problem. Koh's probably overjoyed at the opening he's just been given.

Just had a thought. Zuko, Hakoda and co will probably meet up with the Gaang. I doubt Hakoda will hide the existence of the Lituya Bay Waterbenders from Katara and Sokka. Sooka will figure out this is why Zuko told him to check the place out after the war and if he says as much out loud? People will wonder HOW Zuko knew, since he told Hakoda he had no contact with his relatives at all because of who his father is. Zuko's secrets are going to be uncovered, aren't they?

Shimmer- muwhahaha, and probably at the WORST possible time.

Girmie, I concede that SOME spirits forget. Some. Not all. Koh has not forgotten the slight that the Avatar Spirit gave him when it chose humans over its own kind.

You bring up some very reasonable points, and I've even pondered on some of the same. However, the fact of the matter stands. Aang broke a sacred law of the Spirits. Even Yue cannot be so lenient. Gods, great Spirits...they do NOT like this rule being broken. They won't confront him directly; they don't need to. They will teach the Avatar a lesson he'll never forget. And like donahermurphyabc said, it will be appropriately suitable as it will be terrifying and awe-inspiring. Gods don't like being dissed in the least.

As for Zuko not being seen...I think it's been made clear to the Great Spirits that he is the Avatar's friend. Yue claimed him as her yaoren, Agni gave him up to her. The other three Spirits will recognize him as thus.

Another Fire Nation apologist just showed up, said there were "inaccuracies" - mind picking this apart?

---

As only Fire Nationals have the ability to resist Hate Plagues, a lot of the survivors who reached Byakko killed themselves upon learning that despite escaping, the Fire Nation still got the last laugh in that not only could they never return home, but could only safely associate with Fire Nationals. Amak only accepted his situation(and Karasu's courtship) after Azulon assassinated Kuzon, which demonstrated that the Fire Lords were just as merciless and cruel to their own people as they were to the rest of the world.

Kalaong, given that Water can make you want to die, I really don't think you have a leg to stand on.

From chapter 77: For a moment, he was drowning.

The tribe casts you out, waves whispered at him. The chieftain's daughter has decided. Let go; let it end. For the good of the tribe...

Only Fire Nationals are all trained to resist mental manipulation in general.

I found something interesting about the spirit law thing, however.

---

The Fae... A living object lesson in why God gave free will to all mortal souls.

Imagine that you belonged to an immortal race, created by some other long lost race to be the perfect servants...

Right down to a code of conduct—a list of hundreds of rules of behavior—written into your very blood, that you could no more disobey than a mortal could refuse to eat or pee.

Even aeons after the last of your masters was dead... Even when most of the "laws" no longer make any sense.

Completely without free will... And conscious of it every moment. No wonder they're all half-barmy.

It's made them a race of Rules Lawyers—sticklers for the letter of the law, who'll ruthlessly exploit every loophole and word twist they find in it.

Even the good ones—the Seleighe—can be capricious and dangerous to deal with...

But the Unseleighe...

The Unseleighe live to prove how evil they can be without actually breaking the Fae law.

---

Would it be at all far off the mark to see friendly spirits like Yue as Seleighe and unfriendly ones like Koh as Unseleighe?

;;frowns;; I'm not sure I'd characterize the spirits like the Fae; youkai and other Eastern type entities are more like it. Many of them seem capricious and often cruel, but that's mostly because of the massive disconnect between human mindsets and the spirits' Blue And Orange Morality. Honestly, it's pretty much impossible for mortals to place a value judgment on what a spirit does, or even try to comprehend their thought processes. The spirits are just too alien for mortals to understand. Which sucks in our world, when we only know them as stories and legends. In this setting, where people can come across them every day? ;;deep breath;; No wonder so much to do with spirits mostly involves not getting their attention.

One last note about Lituya Bay; it seemed to me that Amak and the others found sanctuary in Byakko because the inhabitants there didn't think they were poison/needed to die because of their PTSD. Remember: because of how their powers work, they are in very real danger of driving their entire tribe insane if they can't get their anger/trauma in control. As far as I could tell, the only people affected by Katara's uncontrolled empathy were other Water Tribespeople. Please correct me if I'm wrong there. She didn't pull on Aang or Toph at the beach. It's kind of like a Mage in Dragon Age willingly becoming Tranquil to avoid possession by demons because of how their powers work. They gave up their powers, their ability to dream, and their emotions to protect themselves and others. The Lituya Bay waterbenders willingly gave up their families and tribes specifically to protect them. Otherwise, we'd be seeing a wendigo epidemic. Or worse.

But it does seem like a good way to define both Western and Eastern spirits - they do not have free will. They must act according to their laws, or it hurts them. It's a massive hindrance to the the ones who wish to aid humans, but much less of a problem to the ones that wish to harm them - QED Yaoren dying without spirit-healers, Koh raising legions of the drowned.

Also, it's true, the Lituya Bay waterbenders staying in Byakko keeps them from harming the Water Tribes. Except it also has the interesting side effect of depriving the Water Tribes of a great many waterbenders and providing the Fire Nation with their services. Forgive me if that seems to fall in with Kyoshi's mandate of "The Fire Nation serves the Fire Lord" which in the Avatar's absence has been applied as "The Fire Lord Demands Everyone Else's Power and Territory".

;;stares;; I really do not understand how the Fire Nation could have possibly planned for how the tortured waterbenders would react upon escaping, nor why they would think this is a good thing. Firstly, prisoners are never meant to escape in the first place. Secondly, I definitely got the impression that they're supposed to be a secret in Byakko on the level of the yamabushi. Byakko is already not trusted too much by the higher ups, I fail to see the Fire Lord being pleased that one of his domains is harboring escaped PO Ws. Thirdly, why in the world would Kyoshi's decree approve of any of this? Kyoshi's will was always for the Nations to stay separate, enforced with an iron fan if she had to. If looked at it that way, this entire mess is her fault in the first place; setting up a system so contrary to its people's nature that one corrupt Fire Lord just did what was inevitable: become a dictator, and it snowballed from there.

First, what if they were studying the waterbenders? Keeping them in that prison was risking another Hama at any time, but letting Byakko "rescue" them... well, even though Kuzon tried to Be As Unhelpful As Possible, he couldn't betray the Fire Lord. It still deprives the Tribes of waterbenders, and actually turns them into productive serfs.

Second, again, Byakko can't betray the Fire Lord - hooray more serfs.

Third, Kyoshi's not around to tell them off, and Vathara still hasn't said whether or not Kyoshi knew disloyalty kills - the Earth Kingdom rebelled against the Earth King easily enough, and it's like pulling teeth to make Fire Nationals admit that Disloyalty is Death - just like forcing them to admit The War Is Wrong. Until Vathara says otherwise, I say the damn Fire Nationals kept hiding the truth and blaming Kyoshi for not knowing it instinctively.

Two Big Things Fire Nationals NEVER SAY. "DISLOYALTY IS DEATH." "THE WAR IS WRONG."

IT IS THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

---

A MAN CHOOSES. A SLAVE OBEYS.

---

Adventure Friendly World: The setting of Legend Of The Five Rings, Rokugan, is a version of feudal Japan where adherence to bushido is turned Up To Eleven; where extreme racism and classism are considered virtues, and where everyone is pretty much expected to be an emotionless robot existing only to obey their superiors. All of which is fine when you’re playing as a Nonentity General, controlling an entire clan abstractly via a card game… but then the RPG came along, where you’re actually put into the role of one individual and forced to see just what a Crapsack World the place truly is, and what an Idiot Plot the storyline has been in order for it to have turned out that way. It serves as a great example of how a setting can be friendly to one type of game, and hostile to another.

---

OH MY GOD. PLOT HOLE alert! Why does the Fire Nation have prisons if Disloyalty is Death? How can they have crime? Unless you're an uber-sneaky sort like Kuzon, there's no way to disobey the laws passed by even a local lord, let alone the Fire Lord!

What the hell is going on here?

---

...On a non-Fire Nation note, isn't Ba Sing Se heading for something weird? The entire reason the Dai Li had so much power is because they had a deal; live in Ba Sing Se under the Earth King's laws and you will be safe from the War - one of those laws is "There Is No War In Ba Sing Se", and under Earth Kingdom law, that means they have the right to mindbend anyone who says otherwise. Now that they've let the Fire Nation have the city, doesn't that revoke the deal entirely? What happens to all of their subjects now that they've failed to protect them from the War? I'm hoping that all the mindbent get their minds restored.

Kalaong, once again, DO NOT even TRY to place human judgement on a non-human entity. Stop being a damn troll and move on.

And didn't you understand the first time when Katara told the rest of the gAang after the failed Invasion that the Fire Lord now knows that Shidan is a traitor? Ozai now has full proof that Byakko has been betraying him presently as they had been in the past. He's not the one wanting to study waterbenders and their techniques - he countermanded his father's orders to have them imprisoned (which I doubt even then that Azulon wanted to "study" them) and wanted them all killed. Byakko is one of many domains that don't like the Fire Lord. There are probably several more that have yet to be revealed in upcoming chapters.

Actions speak louder than words. Shidan, Kotone, Zuko and several others have survived breaking their Loyalty, and they're pretty much inciting civil war. It's come to the point where the instinctive "The War Is Wrong" has rapidly advanced to something completely different.

Kyoshi never stuck around long enough to understand how the nation of Fire works, despite having been trained by a mountain-firebender and shackling the people to one Chosen bloodline. And she was never really well-loved, either, in her own country or the Fire Nation. Makes me wonder if Aang ever did encounter her in the Spirit World when he went to look for answers. Hehehe...

I really don't think Kalaong is being a troll. Being willfully blind to the point that the only way he/she could be worse is to actually rip his/her own eyes out? Yes. A troll? No.

Neo Shiraku, how good it is to see that you find this so amusing.

Now why don't you do something more relevant and discuss with the rest of us the latest chapter.

While what happened to Zuko for trying to protect Katara from the sea-serpent sucks, I love the fact that Aang smacked the thing, even if he didn't mean too. Bit scared of what it would have tried to make Katara do if it could have. I mean, it ate a baby of its own kind! It's insane like Zuko said.

Also, was I read it right and Zuko called lightning from the sky? There were theories that yanking lightning from the sky is the height of Wave Style and its what Temul used against Sozin isn't it.

Also, evil, crazy water monster is dead. That is good.

Any chances that they'll run into Zuko on their way to Boiling Rock? Spirits doing things to favor the Avatar? Or will they have to deal without someone who knows how the system works? Wait, did Sokka's FN education cover things like that?

About the "calling lightning from the sky" bit. What are the odds that a random lightning storm would hit right when Zuko needed one to kill the sea serpent? Particularly as the G Aang's scene made no mention of a lightning storm, when they couldn't be more than a few miles away at this point? In the Air Islands, the domain of the Autumn Lord, aka the Lord of Storms, who just happens to owe Zuko majorly at this point?

Also, I really hope Shih DID blab that Zuko is Kuzon's reincarnation. Imagine what must be going on in Aang's head if he did. He not only might have accidentally killed someone, he might have accidentally killed the friend who looked for him until he died, then came back to keep looking. Might put a bit of a different perspective on Zuko's unstoppable attempts to catch him. Then there's how Zuko would react once he found out. Not sure how he'll act when he does, but it shall be glorious. And if Aang gets upset enough to demand why Zuko is taking a friend attempting to kill him so calmly? Zuko nonchalantly saying that he's been dealing with attempts on his life since he was six would probably bot get the best of responses. Aang might even pester him into telling them about Azula's attempts to smother him. I can almost see him getting annoyed enough to yell about it before stomping off while the G Aang deals with THAT bit of info.

I really hope that Shih wasn't so stupid as to reveal that much. All he mentioned to Aang was Kuzon...we don't know if Aang is putting two and two together yet. Makes me wonder if Shih ever did meet Kuzon.

Right now, Zuko's only convinced more that the Avatar is untrustworthy, and did not expect to be blasted off a cliff. He may understand why Aang did it, but really, who wants to be blasted out in the middle of the ocean where anything can get at you? Also...everyone here has agreed that Shiyu will take on Aang as his firebending student. We know that Shiyu said in canon "I serve the Avatar", and here, he's in prison for defying his nation and the Fire Lord. Shiyu helped Aang, Sokka and Katara before - why wouldn't he want to help the Avatar?

It's never occurred to me why Shiyu would say no. Would he? Aang knows he has to learn firebending, but he doesn't think that Fire is any Good. Will Shiyu want to train someone who thinks of Fire as something evil? Who refuses to have anything to do with it? As it is, Aang has to have incentive in earthbending (Boots). When the student refuses to learn, how can one teach?

Now that the gAang is starting to piece things together (finally), I hope Toph throws a rock at Aang's head. This is partly her fault as well.

What really got me is that Zuko actually showed some awareness of what he has to fix; "My nation isn't Zhao. My nation isn't Sozin." That's more than I believed he was capable of before this. He wasn't making excuses like he always has every time someone brought it up. The next step will be for him to do that in front of witnesses. The primary thing that the kadzhait used to set Katara off was him, "Looking at the prayer hall like he cared. ...He didn't even "act" ashamed." It makes me wonder what most Germans feel when they look at Dachau or Auschwitz. Or what I'd feel if I ever visited Hart Mountain or Manzinar. My government did that to "protect" me, and even if I disagree with it, it's still part of me as an American. Nasty part is that my dad is part Japanese, and if it happened today, I'd be in there.

...Or is that something I missed? Firebenders consider showing shame to be weakness? In canon, what got the Gaang on his side was showing shame for the actions of himself and his Nation. Here, he's some kind of autistic savant who just doesn't seem to understand that these weird justifications piss people off...

Except I just realized that's not the case. I can't remember which chapter it was, but he justified invading Kyoshi and setting everything on fire because(paraphrased), "If you knew Fire Lord Sozin was in a neutral village, wouldn't you do anything you could to take him out, no matter the collateral damage?" He compared the guy trying to save the world to the guy trying to end it. And somehow, he was able to get Kyoshi islanders to agree with him - and even show that agreement to potential allies like Hakoda. Now that's mindbending. Zuko seems to be able to turn anyone given enough time. The only exceptions seem to be the Gaang and Hakoda... and he was able to spiritually savage all of them to the breaking point - Hakoda is terrified of his daughter, Katara is terrified of Aang, Sokka agrees with Zuko that Aang needs a collar and leash, Toph hates Aang for blasting Zuko off a cliff(every other time Zuko's fought with Katara, he's been the aggressor - though he did overdo it in "protecting" Katara)...

It's all social and psychological, but that's where I started to believe that Zuko is more dangerous than Aang. Aang isn't very good at making his enemies change sides. Anyone Zuko can't subvert, he can psychologically maim to the point of social isolation.

Where did you get the notion Haokoda is terrified of his daughter? He didn't seem scared when he scolded her for bending their emotions and pointed out the possible consequences if she continued to do so. And Katara isn't scared of Aang. Maybe she's realizing that he avoids stuff he doesn't like or want but in regards to Katara relating to Aang and terror, it's more accurate that she's terrified FOR him.

And the Kyoshi people, while they agreed that they would have done the same if it was Sozin in a neutral village, weren't saying they liked what Zuko did but acknowledge that he had reasons that weren't "you're not Fire Nation so I'm burning you".

As for Hakoda agreeing with Zuko, what agreement are you talking about? That Aang, someone who can potentionally set of volcanoes and other natural disasters, has to learn to think things through? That Kyoshi's decree had horrific consequences?

As for acting ashamed, why should he? He wasn't alive as Zuko but as Kuzon back then. You know, the guy who warned the Temples and saved the children. Part of Zuko's issues in Canon was trying to live up to his father's - and Sozin's - legacy. Here, he's thrown that legacy aside and is choosing his own path instead of aiming for what he thinks Ozai wants.

While we're on the subject...Katara may end up apologizing to Toph "I was trying to protect you". How well do you guys think this is going to pan out? Kalaong, you're confusing Zuko's actions with the actions of his ancestors. Besides, Sokka doesn't agree with anyone having to pay up for the sins of their fathers. Zuko never mindbended anyone - he just point blank tells them about the idiotic actions and the dire consequences that can come from one certain powerful indiviual. Toph used to be able to tell it like it is, but she compromised her blunt nature to make her friends comfortable. Just look at what happened.

So what if Sokka happens to believe in common sense? Just because he's not a bender, don't think that Zuko doesn't have any respect for him that he would have to turn to mindbending. What Sokka believes in is Aang, and not the Avatar, and he would very much like to believe that Aang won't take the easy way out this time.

Toph doesn't hate Aang...she's just really, really, REALLY mad right now. Why wouldn't she be? When a friend of yours kills another friend of yours, I think you'd be entitled to a little time for yourself. Maybe this will make Toph really think about the deal she has with Aang.

You have to remember context Kalaong. The Fire Nation is at war with the world; so to a FN citizen the Avatar is the bad guy. We, the readers, know that Ozai is going to burn down the earth kingdom; Zuko on the other hand didn't go to the meeting to find out, so he does not know what his father is planning.

"He compared the guy trying to save the world to the guy trying to end it."

Zuko was trying to make her see what he felt at the time. I am actually impressed with him know that I see it. The reason I am proud of him is because he was able to compare his father to the person that he has been chasing for over a year that has humiliated him more times than I care to count.

Was thinking about the kadzait- specifically, why the kadzait that attacked Zuko is proof there is a living pod that survived past the last 2,000 and 1,000 years. Well, the teeth on the male were clearly hand-sized rather than head-sized. So it's not grown as full as it could be.

But the best argument is something I've just realized something about chapter 78. Specifically:

"Fadeout. Squawks and clicks. A pressure, bobbing him back to the surface."

I HAD assumed this was merely the remnants of his iceburg, bobbing him back to surface. However. Iceburgs do not squawk. Neither do they click.

Birds sqawk, yes. With a dead thing in the water, birds are a definite possiblity. But clicking? Clicking seems a sound that is somewhat more whale-associated.

According to wiki. "The click sounds made by Sperm whales and dolphins are not strictly song, but the clicking sequences have been suggested to be individualized rhythmic sequences that communicate the identity of a single whale to other whales in its group and allows the groups to coordinate foraging activities."

Also this info about a "toothed whale," the beluga, seems pertinent: "The larynx of toothed whales does not possess vocal cords. Sounds are probably produced by movements of air between nasal sacs in the blowhole region. Scientific evidence suggests a general association between behavioral activity and the various types of vocals beluga whales use. For example, researchers have observed that beluga whales tend to emit more squawk-type calls during periods of social interaction than during alarm situations."

And these toothed whales are also recorded as making clicking noises.

...I am somewhat less worried about whether the sails of the ship are blue or not. There are at least two, more probably three or more, living kadzhait in the water. This fits with two things

a) Water Tribes seem to feel responsible for when one of thier own is evil. That the evil kadzait went after another waterbending "cub," a wounded snow-child, is possibly something they feel the need to rectify by helping him to a ship.

b) Zuko's luck. Unless someone is actively helping him, it is terrible. Most of his other really bad situations he survived becuase Yue, or Asagitasu, (or Agni if you count the Kuzon thing) or uncle or another fellow mortal made a deliberate decision to help him out. But if he just passes out in the middle of the water, he'd have to be very lucky not to just drown. Kadzait are more likely the reason he's alive than a melting iceburg he's miraculously not slipped off of yet.

So, if he does run into random water tribesmen (I'm thinking Northerners are more likely than the ones involved in the invasion, as they had most of thier ships destroyed) they actually have a far better reasons not to killim than seeing him in the same water as one of their dead spirit-animals.

Of course, if those widows and orphans form the seige of the north choose next chapter to show up, as they make thier way to dragon's wings, that owuld make sense too. (FN ships miht be steel, but steel goes to the war, and these people are making a break for Zuko's domain. And they have to show up sometime.)

The squawks and clicks I tend to associate with dolphins. But whales do just fine, too.

donahermurphyabc, you think that the widows and orphans are the ones who picked Zuko up? If they're headed towards Zuko's domain, heh. Wouldn't it be just peachy for Uncle to learn what the Avatar has done this time. Maybe he'll learn finally not to put such blind faith in the Spirits anymore.

As for the debate on Zuko and his influence/ psychological damage on people:

Kaloaong, you have a point that Zuko's reaction in the dawn room are not what Katara would have expected the descendent of the man who killed everybody in it to experience.

However, I think Kuzon's memories were probably visibly bleeding through enough that it set Katara off. She's stubborn about her views, but as Zuko has ackowledged, she's smart and perceptive, and she knew on some level his reaction was wrong- especially wrong, according to her knowledge of Zuko as primarily the Fire Nation Prince of Sozin's line. Zuko has some identity issues, though. He honestly seems to have been blurring the line between thinking of himself as Zuko or Kuzon in that scene. Note how he responds to Katara: "How old do you think I am?" He responds with a question, rather than his age. This is not necessarily healthy, but I think it explains a little about why his cheif reaction wasn't shame. It was part of the jumbled-up mess of emotions he was experiencing, sure, especially when he tried to convince himself it wasn't his particular fault that he and Temul had only been able to save so few. But it wasn't the one that showed on his face. I think Zuko, in that scene, was less concerned with the sins of his ancestors than Katara expected him to be, and that gave the kadzhait the in it needed into her brain. I don't think he was concealing his shame- I think Katara saw him in an ungaurded moment, and that he was sad, but there WASN'T any shame, and that set her off.

You are also right in the Zuko- for all that he's bad at people- is still very charismatic, and that can sometimes be a creepy trait, espcially when viewed from the outside. The ability to sway people is necessary for all great leaders- every truly great good leader has it, and every great evil leader also has it. I might not always find charisma creey, but I can see how it can become that very easily.

However, I don't think the current division of the gaang can be laid at Zuko's feet. Say it was another Fire Nation person- even Jeong Jeong- that was involved in this mess. Evil spirit, fights Katara, Aang comes in. I don't think Aang would ever blast Jeong Jeong off the cliff, even panicking over Katara, but say he accidentally did. The essential situation- Aang kills someone Toph is fond of in a misguided attempt to protect Katara when she's being controlled by a water spirit- is going to be extremely divisive no matter WHO gets killed. Toph being so fond of Zuko makes it much worse, yes- but I think the group would have severe pyschological damage over this event anyway, and there's something a little messed up about laying the charge for that at Zuko's feet.

Which is not to say that Zuko hasn;t caused psychological damage.

The letter incident with Katara? Sure, yeah. He screwed up there- he ended up alomst killing her.

Splitting people apart from Katara on the beach? Yeah, that was a nasty thing to do. Even he acknowledged how psychologically cruel it was to Teruko.

The damage caused by him falling off the cliff? I have to say no.

Kyoshi Warriors? I doubt he did much persuading on his own. More the fact that Shidan helped them and La chose him to be yaoren. Shidan's been hanging around with the Koyshi people for a while, Hoyurin has memories of Lu Ten's previous incarnation as a best bud, and Zuko is visibly surprrised that Langxue trusts him enough to heal. When Zuko makes that argument, he's certainly not in moral clear spot, no. But he does offer to fight it out with swords is she feel strongly enough that he's wronged her to demans a honor do- he does recognize that he's done Soaluan a wrong. I think his associations, his plan to stop the volcano, and his willingness to take the consequences did more for thier eventual support of him than the argument he mande about the village, which alone would not have been particularly convincing.

And Sokka's growing friendliness- that DOES have a cause, and her name is Temul. Even thoough we see her reasons, that was a nasty thing to do to someone. Before that (and after the beach) Sokka is explicit that he doesn't like OR trust Zuko. His changes of behavior towards Zuko and Aang actually occur after the Temul thing, not after meeting Zuko again.

Now- I'll agree that he's not nice to Aang. At all. We see his reasons for that, but I do symptathize with Katara feeling the need to smack around someone who says such bluntly cruel things to a tweleve-year-old. Honest? You bet Zuko's honest. He's also extremely pissed off, and pretty mean sometimes. But he's not deliberately trying to drive Aang crazy, or psychologically unstable. He's attacking Aang's idea of himself becuase that idea is a lie. Is it the best way to go about it? Definitely not.

But being an unpleasant person for Aang to interact with does not make him guilty of his nation's crimes. He has a responsibility to keep that from happening now, and to deal with it, and to help those wronged by his nation as he can. But that is not the same as having to ATONE for them, personally.

Charisma can be is a little scary, and Vathara does tend to write in a way that prompts dislike against characters that reasonably distrust him. But it's becuase of the structure of the story that we see more people who do trust Zuko. For instance, all the refugees who don't trust him enough to go live an the crazy volcano are never seen again. It's just not helpful for the plot. The White Lotus doesn't trust Zuko all that much (it's implied, despite his uncle being part of it). We don't see them becuase they are the mysterious factor who is more interesting if they are surprise to the audience when they DO make thier plans for the comet.

Now, both Zuko and Aang show some charisma, but is Zuko better than Aang at making his enemies "change sides?"

Yes, but that, again, is more a function of the story. Aang HAS a side. Zuko's domain is the equvalent of Misfit Island. Aang, just by being the Avatar, already has a side kind of pre-defined for him. Thier positions and relative charisma actually has a lot more to do with thier positions than who they are as people, and I would argue that Aang definitely has the FAR MORE difficult job in persuading people already 'supporting" him to support his ideas. The people are supporting an idea of the avatar so strongly, it's hard for him to actually convince them of anything as Aang.

cetraskies- I kind of want Dragons Wings to not mention Zuko is alive when the Gaang visits, but I don't think Zuko would go for it. Especially considering Toph. I also don't thinks Zuko thinks the Gaang 'knows' he's dead. He's used to surviving bad stuff. He knows they know there is a CHANCE he is dead, but everyone in the Gaang (with the exception of Toph) seems SURE.

...But if Aang is stingy on the details of what happened to Zuko, I can totally see somebody deciding to arrange a 'funeral' as revenge. Or just imagine someone like Langxue asking Aang how Zuko's doing, knowing full well Zuko's safe in the domain but wanting to bee how upfront Aang is.

...Heh. If Aang's first, panicked response is something vague along the lines of "There was an accident" and "It was my fault," I can see some of them being viciously uncomprehending. "What sort of accident? Is he hurt badly?" "Your fault? Do you blame yourself for not stopping the spirit?" People in his domain are going to feel very agnry about Zuko almost getting killed.

cetraskies- sorry, forgot your actual question. Before I figured out about the possible kadzhait assistance, I thought it would be the widows and orphans picking him up. But now I'm leaning toward the NWT boats. MAYBE what's left of Hakoda's ships, but I was under the impression they had just subs left now.

Something I don't get- if he was blown east, then washed out by the tide, why does he want to go further east when passing the Western Air Islands on the black current? He doesn't seem to be aiming for the Earth Kingdom.

Theories:

a) He is aiming for the Earth Kingdom rather than the islands and just never mentioned it.

b) The tide washed him all the way over to the western side of the island even though he was blown off the east. He was on the southernmost part, so I guess it's possible. Now he needs to head east to hit land. ON the west is open ocean. (More likely to have kadzhait, according to Sokkas decriptions of "THINGS" in the Western Ocean.

c) In addition to the broken ribs, Zuko has a bad concussion and is very confused. (Supported by all sorts of things here, but not, I think, why he keeps trying to head east.

d) Vathara meant to write "west."

I love your posts, donahermurphyabc. Your explanations are reasonable and enlightening. You're absolutely right, though. Zuko's not nice, but whoever said that Good HAS to be Nice? In reality, it's not. I don't see Zuko as the one who tore the gAang apart - they each have their own opinions and methods of doing things. They've just never really had time alone in their own corners until now that a major tragedy has hit them, one they haven't expected to happen. There's no doubt that Zuko hates what his father is doing or what his ancestors did to the world, but at the moment, he has more pressing matters to deal with than lamenting over their sins.

I'm betting on Northern Water Tribe, actually, on reaching Zuko. Or...if he's by the Air Isles, Tengri's domain, do you think it's possible we may just get treated to another lost Air Nomad group? Eh, I'll just put this on the WMG page.

Anyways, IF Zuko is perchance found by one of his citizens, then Amaya can nurse him back to help and send Iroh to the couch for adding more Spirit debt on her student. While it's unrealistic to bet that the gAang will ever revisit Dragons' Wings soon, I can't see them welcoming the Avatar and friends back. Rumor can spread very quickly, especially with a leader's death. Kuzon was said to have died in his bed, which we all know is a lie. If the people of Dragons' Wings learned of their lord's death...

I can see Amaya asking where Zuko is, and the gAang looking all but guilty. Maybe Teo and his friends will be more sympathetic...you think? What would be ironic is if Teo would be the first to grasp that Aang is lying. Airbending can kill - Aang doesn't want to kill the Fire Lord and refuses to, but he was able to blast Zuko off a cliff. What need does the Avatar need of firebending, then?

Thanks!

Yeah, I don't think it was really Zuko who tore them apart. Just they way they were dealing with things, and Zuko as a kind of really instensified representation of their more divisive issues.

I think they're going to run into trouble with Azula's group before they do with Dragon's Wings. Azula's got onmitsu, and Ty Lee can see auras. She'll feel like she was proven right, too, if she finds out the avatar killed Zuko. And I can't help but think Azula would see the benefits of Aang being so broken by Zuko's "death," at least enough that she would keep to the plan that means she doesn't have to deal with a NWT avatar. Although she may try to main Aang in revenge.

Teo doesn't seem to know enough airbending yet to see when people will lie to him. I think Teo will be sympathetic if Aang tells the whole truth right away, though.

Langxue will not be happy at ALL. I am kind of looking forward to seeing him lose his temper.

The White Lotus... ouch. That could be iffy. Especially led by General Iroh. He remembers how eleven year old Azula pretty much fooled him with her innocent act, and he might not know whether or not Zuko is dead.

I would like to see people's reactions to a fight against the sea wofd in the middle of a stormy ocean at night with broken ribs and not even a piece of driftwood. That was COOL.

To be honest, I keep waiting for when Zuko figures out that Byakko got sold out to the onmitsu by Katara and no one told him. I don't know- he might just assume its thier stupid inability to keep secrets rather than malice. But I don't like that Toph didn't seem to have mentioned it.

A showdown between Ozai's Angels and the gAang? I would love to see that. Azula would claim revenge for her fallen brother, wouldn't she? After all, she did owe him a huge favor. Zuko is hers to break, maim and kill, not the Avatar, her Nation's enemy. This is just another strike against him.

With the onmitsu and Ty Lee...Aang won't be able to do much to defend himself. They'd be able to see through any justifications he'd go through. Avatar Aang is their enemy - he killed her Princess' and heir to the Fire Nation's brother. I'd like to see what Ty Lee does when confronted with her people's doom. "It's your fault that we have to live they way we do" - I can imagine her telling him this, to honor the Avatar with a lesson of her own. Aang wouldn't deny it, because he knows that Ja Aku corrupted the Temple's teachings. I want to see Aang and Ty Lee debate and counter and philosophize with each other. I would love to see the look on Azula's (and Zuko's) faces, as I can very well see the two airbenders chatting civilly, even friendly, for enemies.

I don't think Teo will need to learn airbending to know that Aang will be hiding something. Aang wears his heart on his sleeve. While sympathetic, I don't think Teo will be able to help but think "If the Avatar is capable of blasting someone off a cliff, why not the Fire Lord"? Even if I think that Ozai does deserve everything coming to him.

Langxue will be disappointed. He knows that Aang isn't Yangchen, but this will jade him even more. Shirong will be FURIOUS. The Earth King will have lost an ally and a resource - without Zuko, what deal do they have? Iroh...well, I'm going to bet on Amaya giving the gAang a good five minutes before the citizens of Dragons' Wings mobs them.

Toph wouldn't tell Zuko that. She cares about her friends, even if they infuriate and frustrate her. At this point, Zuko's just trying to stay alive. Huh...I think maybe those sails could be the Lituya Bay waterbenders. Just another potential guess on my part.

Well, Kuei is likely to keep to the deal even without Zuko. A small chance Iroh can pacify the volcano with spirits trying to undermine him for violating Kyoshi's decree of loyalty to the Fire Lord is better than none, and Earth is said to put a lot of importance of precedence. Breaking the deal becuase Zuko's dead would give Kuei problems with future deals down the line.

It has just occured to me that using lightning from the SKY on the airships would be a VERY effective technique, moreso than self-generated lightning, even...

...Also that Zuko's style is very similar to Temul's here- my bet is that Kuzon knew how she did it but was never able to manage it himself, becuase he feels so nervous about whether it would suceed and that doesn't show up in skills Kuzon had already managed to acquir before he died.

I would actually love the Gaang's reintroduction to Zuko to be a stormy night filled with onmitsu when they think he's a ghost just dropping by to defend Toph. That would be awesome. (Not that I think it's what'll happen. Although I'm curious to see if Vathara can set up something where Aang thinks Zuko is dead even when he does see him, since Aang can usually tell when people are breathing and is learning earth-sense.)

I'm interested in the whole "mental distance from your element." Aang probably knows this and applies it to air, but is he instively applying it to earth and water as well? Becuase if Pakku didn't tell Katara about this and that's what enabled the sea serpent to suck her in using bending, I kind of doubt Toph's teacher, who "thought she could barely move rocks" thought she was a strong enough bender that she needed to be worried about spirits sucking her in trhough her bending. Iroh warned Zuko ("Your spirit is stronger than your body. Ususally, this is an advantage.) and he says Amaya also taught him, so he probably also applies it to his wave-style firebending.

But did AANG even learn this? I had assumed so, becuase's Gyatso is established as such a good teacher, but a) there are good reasons to keep children away from the spirits when they are that young.- Shirong. not telling people about spirits makes them less likeky to be able to hit you as hard, which was why Sozin worked os hard to eradicate belief in them among his own people- sokka. b) the elders didn't seem to LIKE Gyatso telling Aang about the "dark wind that could move through people sometimes." Gyatso may have been eing as explicit as possible in giving the children a warning the elders would have dragged them all into harmonius accord for saying overtly. You don't want to give your future mindbedning victims tips on protecting thier minds, after all, and Gyatso loved Aang enough (and knew him well enough) that he was cautious about giving out info that owuld be dangerous to Aang.

This could bring up interesting future possibilities, ecpecially as its not terribly likely Shiyu (a mountain-style firebender) has tons of experience with teachings students not to get sucked in by a spirit/spirit-animal when bending a source that is OUTSIDE them.

(I would also like someone to realize Zuko's fire-nets are a completely made up nonlethal move that he invented himself. Like Aang trying to learn it and Shiyu being like "I've never heard of a bender doing that." Hee.)

I'm wondering how much differences there are between sea serpents and dark dragons in thier pyschological attacks. Maybe just: with sea serpents, what you're feeling doesn't matter- with dark dragons, what you're seeing isn't true.

Becuase the sea seprents seem to pull on your OWN feelings and strenghten them, while the dark dragons provide OUTSIDE explanations that are lies. (Although dark dragons do seem to convey "lying" emotions AS WELL as visual images when they are trying to twist your view of reality... hmm.)

I think there IS a difference between how dark dragons and sea serpents like to twist minds, I'm just trying to phrase it more accurately without going on for pages.

O Oh, and when we think about the "human" equivaltents- can we use Hama as an equivalent for sea serpents. They have a lot in common, but would she have to be spirit-born herself for the ocrrelations to be as direct as it is between Ozai and Makoto?

Worth thinking about.

ON a TOTALLY different subject (well, it realtes to how Zula is SO much less of a dark dragon after the spirit healing than I thought she was) take a look at this scene with Makoto and Azula:

"Foot. The other was a mass of blinding pain, and she was not going to look down. She didn't have to, as Ty Lee landed beside her and sandstone rose to block fireballs in a crash of sand and glass. "Azula!" ... No time to think, as the creature eeled around rocks like a summer-dance, like Zuzu playing; robed arms were out and looping and the sparks, oh those beautiful deadly sparks-

No time to think. So she didn't. Only stepped in front of the target-

It's just pain just pain you know what she wants she was in your head she hates weakness hates life hates Air you know-

-And move. ... Ty Lee. Gripping her hand. Angry and warm and alive, thank Agni, alive. ... The only thing Makoto hates more than the blood of Byakko is the blood of Air. ... One of Sozin's line, willingly learning the bow? Choosing to protect an airbender?" ... He risked his life for me. Like I did for Ty Lee. I risked my life, it doesn't make sense-"

All taken together, seems to imply that Azula actually jumped in front of Ty Lee and TOOK THE LIGTHING FOR HER. Granted, it's made clear Azula thought she could redirect it, but STILL. Holy crap. That came totally out of the blue for me, and I've read this story at least five times.

Am I the only one who missed this?

(I'm at once impresed that Vathara has again made this work something that benefits form even more re-reading, and wondering if this shouldn't have been more explicit. It utterly changes your reading of Azula. I'm not sure if it's a mistake, or genius, becuase I'm pretty sure a reader is only likey to see the implications if they've read ahead enough to see Azula beeing less evil. Kind of twisty, but I wish I'd gotten it before.)

On a related note, the implications of the Avatar "killing" the one guy known as a fire-healer by the FN could get very interesting...

You bring up some interesting points, donahermurphyabc. Do you think Shiyu will agree to teaching Aang, though? Shiyu may be a master firebender, but he's foremost a Fire Sage, which means he's a priest for Agni. Will he notice that Aang is lying to himself when he says he "has" to learn firebending?

I thought that Makoto was attacking Azula with the lightning, but rereading that chapter, yes, she was aiming for Ty Lee. Azula likes Ty Lee too much to let go. A loyal airbender, and an Onmitsu at that...too good of a resource for her father or Makoto to kill.

Killing the only fire-healer...Azula may just not kill Aang, after all. She might even mock-congratulate Aang for doing a job meant for her father. Of course, Aang will be even more mortified at this, but if Azula can't kill him (somehow, I think Ty Lee may just have something to do with keeping Aang alive, if only so they don't suffer the reign of a Water Tribe Avatar), then do the next best thing. Make him suffer.

Huh, do you think one of Byakko's ships saved Zuko? Hey, do you think he'll even try to find his way back to the gAang? I always thought he would take it upon himself to bust Shiyu out of the Boiling Rock. Easier to do without even Sokka or Aang to complicate things (rescuing more than their desired quarry). I can imagine the author pulling a reunion of just Sokka and Zuko just happening to run into each other at the prison. Zuko helps Sokka find Shiyu and get him out...only for Sokka to stay to get his dad, Tao, Chi Tsang and Suki out as well. Zuko tells Shiyu along the way that the Avatar is in need of dire training and tells the Fire Sage all about Aang's mishaps and attitude on firebending. Zuko and Sokka can part ways without any bad feelings between them.

Your idea on Zuko's reintroduction brings shivers down my spine. It's so deja vu. Don't worry, I'm sure the author has something worthy of a reunion between Zuko and the gAang.

I took Azula protecting Ty Lee to be a sort of development of the introduction of a bit of water to Azula's psyche. She was possessive before, but now she's willing to sacrifice HERSELF to defend what is hers.

....Now wondering if the author has been reading Catholic theology, that's actually a pretty good metaphor that combines both the maturing of love into the one used in the phrase "love thy neighbor" and balancing between two extremes to promote virtue— too much water is bad, and so is too much fire. (Yes, I know, redundant— "too much" of anything is too much.)

I'm a little ashamed I didn't catch the multiple mentions of the sea serpent being smaller than the skeleton in the cave by the physical indications offered. Very much supports the idea that Zuko may have been saved by the pod that cast out the Sea Serpent.

I think we're forgetting someone in talking about Zuko's probable lack of reaction towards Aang almost killing him: Iroh. If the gAang is going to be disturbed by Zuko's nonchalance towards it, how do you think Iroh will react? Remember his reaction to Zuko casually admitting that Azula having Ty Lee chi-block him at least meant she wouldn't try to smother him again? He shattered the tea cup he was holding.

Zuko didn't seem to understand why Azula almost killing him could be something Iroh would want to know. He doesn't see someone trying to kill him as being something worth mentioning. He probably wouldn't mention Aang almost killing him to Uncl when they meet up as he wouldn't think it was worth mentioning. I can see it as a way to show the gAang how bad Zuko's childhood was if it happens while they are in earshot. Zuko meeting up with Iroh a few days before the gAang does, not mentioning Aang's almost-murder of him to Iroh because he doesn't see it as something to get upset over then having Aang show up and start profusely apologizing for almost killing him?

• Iroh subtly tenses and slowly sets down his teapot after filling their cups."Why did you not mention this, nephew?" Iroh asks, voice and posture calm as he sits down, reaching to hand Zuko a cup of tea with one hand as he picks up his own with the other, letting his hand fall to his side after Zuko takes the cup.

Zuko reluctantly takes a sip, slight confusion flickering across his face, "Why would I?" Zuko asks after a moment, looking over at him with confusion in his eyes. "It's not like it was something worth mentioning." Iroh bends over his teacup as if about to take a sip, shadows hiding his eyes. "Like how Azula having (had Ty Lee practice her chi-blocking on you/tried to smother you with a pillow when you were eight/tried to kill you so many times you lost count of them by the time you turned ten/'insert evil act here') was not worth mentioning?" Iroh queries, voice calm with just a hint of steel. He seemed a picture of perfect serenity, posture relaxed and face calm, shadows concealing the glint in his eyes and the hand at his side clenched hard enough to draw blood.*

Of course, it's unlikely to happen and Vathara would put it much better than I could if it does(sorry I wrote out the whole seen I keep seeing in my mind, I couldn't think of any other way to put it), but can you think of the reactions the gAang would have if they heard that? Especially if Zuko and Iroh didn't know they were in earshot? It's the best way I can think of to get them to realize how much they don't know about Zuko. Not to mention if they realize that he is still tied to them due to water being family.

That makes me wonder about something else, actually. If the gAang find out about Zuko's childhood and tell Hakoda about it as well as that Zuko was 'blessed' with waterbending, how is he going to react? A healing waterbender who survived a completely insane family with his sanity mostly intact, the closest thing he has to a tribe being Dragon's Wings (which I got the impression Hakoda thought was probably going to fail), was accepted and blessed by the moon long after a child normally is, is a powerful warrior in his own right and is within grabbing distance of a chieftain whose tribe is sorely needing waterbenders and warriors? Yikes. Double yikes if he figures out the reason Zuko's scares him is because he's spirit-touched, something respected highly in the water tribes. Or if he finds out dragon-heritage means Zuko's developmentally younger than Aang(dragons age slow, Aang's already expressed interest in girls while Zuko's still several years too young according to Teruko), that he can take down evil spirits, was banished for speaking out for the troops his father planned to let get slaughtered, or any of a half-dozen other things about Zuko. Hakoda's smart enough that he probably wouldn't ever do anything about it so long as Dragon's Wings exists, but if it happens to get destroyed by Sozin...well, he may start to wonder if a spirit-touched waterbender isn't just what the Southern Water Tribe needs...

Don't take anything I just wrote too seriously, I'm sleep-deprived to the point I keep having trouble seeing straight and keeping my train of thought at the same time.

Oh, my... There's also the way that his aunt is a water-bender, and he may have just rediscovered the totem-animals for the Water Benders.

It would be a very nice twist if at one point they start insisting that Zuko marry a non-fire bender, incidentally making for much Aangst and the several-times-hinted Toph/Zuko match.

I didn't think of this before but would the fact Zuko is developmentally younger than Aang have an effect on Katara. She said that "And taking care of kids was her life". So will that up her angst/guilt levels?

As for Hakoa, he stated, well, thought "He'd like nothing better than to ambush that spark-throwing noble arrogance and lay him out cold behind an igloo." Would Zuko protecting Katara from the Sea Serpent help ease things even before the Waterbending is revealed to him?

And if he's there were they spill the beans about nearly killing Zuko and notices Zuko's lack of concern? He's a father himself, he knows how a person's upbringing can influence their attitudes towards things. That sort of scenario will probably cause some nightmare fuel for him when he takes the time to think about it. Especially since he knows that people say that Zuko got his scar from his father.

The gAang aren't going to learn anything that Zuko doesn't deem important for anyone (outside his established Tribe, and maybe Toph) to know.

Shimmer712, Hakoda is captured and not likely thinking about Zuko, who's location is currently unknown, at this moment. He'll likely change his mind once he sees Sokka and Zuko working amicably together at busting them out of the Boiling Rock. More, I don't think Sokka will want to jinx their luck, after what Aang did and not wanting to tell anything more to his father than he has to. He already has to tell his father about his Fire Nation ghost teacher, as well as Katara's issues. He has more than enough on his plate than telling Hakoda every single thing about Zuko.

Hakoda also doesn't know about Zuko's tendency of dismiss attempts on his life.

I meant WHEN he finds out about that tidbit AND has had a chance to think about it and the implications. And while he's thought about the possible implications of his scar, if only to analyse Ozai's character best as he can. And who said the G Aang or Zuko will tell? Zuko lived in a palace, with servants and guards. Possibly he overhears something, either someone describing an incident they were there for (like one of the people who saw Zuko's Angi Kai talking about it) or repeating rumours. Even if he assumes them to be exaggerations or lies, he'll still consider them, simply becuase the man they're talking about is his enemy, information is always good and what sort of person has his own people talking about him like that?

Hakoda might think about it later...when they're all safely out of the Boiling Rock. If nothing has happened to him at the Boiling Rock, that is. There are chi-blockers there, and if he hasn't had any shapeshifting visitors (brr), he'll have time to think about Zuko. For now, staying alive and unbroken is what matters.

Who wants to bet that the Onmitsu such as Kotori went to the Boiling Rock to "interrogate" the prisoners? Will Hakoda and/or Tao be able to tell the color of their eyes?

Maybe. But even if they did, would they be aware of the whole "gray eyes = air nomad blood" thing? There are references to people in the Earth Kingdom with gray eyes and Tao himself is part Fire Nation, part Earth Kingdom. So if they think eye colour indicates non-Fire Nation heritage, they'd think Earth Kingdom, wouldn't they?

No, wait, they know Aang has gray eyes, so they might make the link to Air Nomad, which will flat out horrify them. Air Nomads, working for the nation that murdered their people? Might alert Hakoda to the fact that just because the Water Benders were taken, it doesn't mean that they were killed and they may still be alive somewhere.

Oooh, Shimmer712, now we're edging into Nightmare Fuel...I love it.

Hakoda is pretty much a grown-up version of Sokka. He'll be able to put two and two together like nothing. And the Onmitsu don't know that Hakoda isn't a waterbender, yet. It's true that shinobi aren't meant for much talk, if they talk at all, but they could let slip that "we'll throw him in the cell where the waterbenders used to be". They could just do it, even if Kotori's faction figure out he's not a bender, so that they break him down easily and get answers.

Which reminds me. Tao could end up separated from Hakoda, and the Onmitsu could find out that he's an Earthbender AND a shaman. Makes me wonder if he'll be thrown in with Shiyu...

And hey! What does Shiyu know about the Onmitsu, the Fire Nation's Air Nomad (known) population? If he knows at all. This will disillusion Tao further - not just the Fire Nation, but the Air Nomads as well. But if Tao can put aside his bias, he can get information from Shiyu about the Onmitsu.

I just had another thought. How would they find out that Zuko's developmentally younger than Aang? Well, based on the stress placed on Kuei finding a suitable wife to hold the spirits in check for Ba Sing Se even in current circumstances, I'd wonder if they wouldn't want to do the same with Zuko. Volcano spirit only keeps from killing them if one of its bloodline holds it in check? And the current holder isn't married? Ack! I'd guess they'd try until someone bluntly tells them that he's several years too young to be interested in marriage, then be forced to explain why, potentially within earshot of the gAang. THAT would be an...interesting situation. Especially since Hakoda thinks Zuko is too young to be in charge of Asagitatsu as it is. Finding out that Zuko's both even younger than Hakoda thinks AND is really the one in charge, not Iroh? What do you think that reaction will be like?

Why do you guys assume that Hakoda is at the Boiling Rock? The last time I remember his POV he was in one of the subs with Teo's dad and the Swamp benders, or did I miss something?

He would up there in Canon, remember? At the moment, we're assuming Embers will have him wind up there. It is possible that Vathara will do something different. Hey, he may even end up Byakko for all we know.

If he does wind up in Boiling Rock, will that mean Hue, the Spiritual Swampbender be there?

And if he ends up in Byakko, will he wind up stumbling across Ursa and learning WHY she's more or less insane? If that happens, I think he'll probably feel a bit sick, at the notion that someone would order the death of their own grandchild because they were annoyed with the kids Dad and the fatc that Ozai was WILLING to do it!

@jwagne51: I've thought about that, too. But then, the Swampbenders were trying to lead Makoto away from the gAang. I don't think Hue would have wanted to take Hakoda and Tao with them - not when Hue and his men could potentially DIE. What's more, Hakoda would help keep the Fire Nation soldiers away from the gAang to give them time to escape. It's what he did in canon - most of us figure he would do the same here, just with a little more help.

Snow Angel 7, we have no idea where Ursa is - if she is at the Boiling Rock. It would be very interesting to find that she is.

Taxicat3, you bring up a good point. I do think if Zuko and Shiyu meet again, maybe the old Fire Sage will have the knowledge and tell the ex-prince that he can go back to his domain so he can secure his bloodline. That way, Zuko can go without any more interruptions and leave the firebending training to Shiyu.

Zuko's too young to be thinking of marriage, and yet, he has to get back to Dragon's Wings as soon as possible. He's only just established his base there, and while Iroh can help stave Asagitatsu's temper somewhat, he's not its Lord. The next time Zuko and Kuei get in touch, I'm sure the Earth King will be more than happy to send him some noblewomen willing to open diplomatic relations. Aang could learn something as well, even if he's no longer the Last Airbender.

Now that it's been brought up I have to ask: what happened with Hue and the Swampbenders? And the Mechanist since he was with them, wasn't he? The last we heard they were being chased by what we believe is Makoto since the stalker was referred to as Old Evil, Old Hate and described as sineous like Makoto.

cetraskies, Snow Angel 7 suggested the possibility of meeting Ursa if they wind up in Byakko. They seem to think she's there. Have to admit, it is a likely place for her to be. It's her home, there are the yamabushi there with their own sages/shamen/whatever and her dragon daddy to keep her safe best as he can. And Shiden clearly is in touch with her (although, given that he runs a spy network, that doesn't prove anything).

I don't know about that, Shimmer712. While I've entertained the thought, Ursa in Byakko sounds rather too easy to me. Shidan certainly didn't tell Zuko that she was in Byakko, either. Byakko may be her original home, but Ozai and anyone else who knew where Ursa came from would know that that is the first place she would go if anything happened at the Caldera. Why bring trouble back to her home and her parents? As far as I'm concerned, she could be anywhere around the world.

@cetraskies In chapter 44 Shidan told Iroh that Ursa was wounded and that she believed that Zuko was like Azula in being a dark dragon. Also, when people are hurt they go home. And I just realized that if Azula is Going to Byakko and Ursa is there also Ursa and Azula could help each other, Ursa helping Azula by showing her motherly love, and Azula helping Ursa by healing Ursa's wounded spirit.

Should have brought this up sooner. Zuko doesn't seem angry at Katara at all. He focused the blame on the sea serpent. So if he forgives her but not Aang, will that cause problems?

I can see Zuko's reasoning. Maybe Katara would have attacked him eventually, but in this case, it was because something was twisting her head around. Aag just came in, jumped to conclusions and gale-blasted him. And given Aang's reaction when he saw he was ripped a chunk of the temple away, he didn't even have control. Something that is emphasised with firebending. Which Aang is intending to learn so he can stop the War.

jwagne51, the gAang are not going to Byakko. After Katara let slip to Kotori that Shidan is a traitor to the Fire Nation, they know that they would not be welcome there at all. Especially after Aang blasted Zuko off a cliff. Right now, they're going through with Zuko's plan of going to the Boiling Rock. Besides, Byakko has their own problems now, courtesy of Katara.

Shimmer712, Zuko is used to people trying to killing him, so he'll be rather upset that Aang made an itsy-bity, teensy-weensy, little mistake. I do think that Zuko will stay far away from Aang this time, and maybe Aang will have the respect to keep his distance. Zuko's trust in Aang has never been good, and now, he has none in him at all. Katara, at least, means to do things and doesn't half-ass them like Aang does.

I don't think that Ursa is in Byakko. Remember that after killing Fire Lord Azulon, Makoto carries a grudge against her for killing her son. If Ursa were really in Byakko, wouldn't it be easy for Makoto to carry out her vengeance there? Makoto would have killed Ursa a long time ago if she knew that Ursa were really there. Until the author actually reveals Ursa and her location, I don't think Byakko is a good hiding place at all.

cetraskies, I'm saying that Azula is going to Byakko, not the gAang. And wasn't Makoto driven off by the Byakko air benders and the White Tiger?

@jwagne51: Sorry for my mistake. Azula and her group, going to Byakko? It does seem more plausible than the gAang going over there. Then again, Azula wasn't thinking of going to Byakko, was she? Last time we saw her, she was looking over a map, looking North.

As for Makoto, Shidan admits he wasn't able to fight her. He told Shirong that if ever faced with her, KILL her, otherwise, there's no stopping her. What's more, Shidan said Ursa wrote him letters. After fleeing from the Caldera, stopping home seems too obvious. Makoto would have easily tracked her and killed her, yamabushi or no.

The reason I think Azula and co. are going to Byakko is because Azula had her breakdown and Mai is the one directing where to go.

About the letters I always thought those letters where when Ursa was in the Palace, because they talked about Shidan's grandchildren.

I don't think Shidan told Mai where Byakko is. I think Azula would think of heading to Zuko's domain...though I think Mai would choose Ember Island as a safe place to go that is nearest, and also where nobody would think to find the Fire Princess.

Yeah, those letters were from when Ursa was in the Palace. You could be right about Ursa hiding in Byakko, though. Shidan just didn't say so to Zuko out of consideration for his daughter, but I can't shake off the feeling that Ursa may be somewhere else, even if I think she may have stopped by at home for a short time. Makoto was let in to Byakko once - I doubt Ursa would want to try her luck again, when she has no protection from the spirits for being Ozai's wife.

I think Mai would know where Byakko from school, because it's part of the Fire Nation, but if not at school then because it is a tourist trap do too the White Tiger being big enough to have snow on top.

The reason I think Ursa is at Byakko is because every time my sister gets sick she comes back home because she want's her mom, though she does live only ten minutes away.

About Makoto, she used Azula to lure Shidan out, so she knows that Shidan is alive. If she could kill him while he was on the White Tiger she would have.

I just thought of something, maybe the White Tiger spirit can manifest like Asagitatsu and that's why Makoto has not kill Shidan yet.

Poking at the "Where is Ursa" theory— where else would you put someone who is deeply spiritually wounded, vulnerable to spirits, and soul-sick?

I think she's up the mountain (where I would suspect the White Tiger is strongest— assuming the volcanoes have similar views of "their" families) in the care of the mountain sages, and possibly more currently-human-shaped dragons.

Also, Shidan has mentioned a desire to snatch folks to his home and nurture them up when they're not even related— the desire to protect your children is really, really strong, and the desire to be protected when you're very sick is also strong. I'm a lot further away from my folks than Jwagne51's sister, but when I got really sick a month or two back (to the extent that I really couldn't do more than lay in bed for a whole day) the first day I could sit up in a car seat I was headed home with my kids.

To counter that, it's possible that killing the Fire Lord made her too vulnerable to Fire Nation spirits, and she's in one of their trading partners' areas— again, though, well guarded by shamans.

Oooh! What about Foggy Swamp? In Canon it had some power, enough to call the Avatar and show the image of a friend Aang hadn't even met or heard of yet. And Byakkao does have family in there.

Exactly how powerful is the swamp? Powerful enough that Makoto is hesitant to attack it? If so, it puts a new spin on her going after the Swampbenders. Not only were they convenient but they were waterbenders that had completely escaped Azulon's scheme due to protection they had left behind. So it could have also been an opportunistic strike.

I was just casually Wiki Walking, and had an odd thought upon hitting Pygmalion Snapback; One of Zuko's biggest problems with Aang is that Aang is so non-combative - his first instinct is to talk or flee rather than fight. What do you think Zuko's thinking now that he's had Aang blast him with enough wind to shatter solid granite as a first strike; that he knows exactly how to piss him off enough for him to fight seriously - attack Katara.

You wanted an Angry Aang, Zuko. How did you like his killing strike?

Uh, Kalaong, we already know what Zuko's thinking in the latest chapter. The point wasn't to teach Aang anger - Zuko's been knowing that Aang has a huge crush on Katara, and anything that hurts her deeply upsets him. The whole point of the whole "death is precious" lesson? Zuko's problem with Aang is that he bends so ridiculously strong so casually so carelessly.

Shimmer712, you think the Swampbenders are somehow still alive?

Kaloong: I disagree about Zuko's perspective on Aang regarding anger. Zuko actually seems to have a problem with Aang's way of handling anger. (The most blatant being in conversation with Sokka, regarding lightning injuries, when Zuko notes that Aang "blows people up" when he gets mad.) Now, Zuko was still laboring under the misapprehension that the Avatar State signified a shift in mood and not a shift in spirit at this point, but Zuko is one of the best placed to see the parts of Aang that come out in combat, like his temper. Zuko also has a LOT of personal experience dealing with anger as a personal flaw that impedes thought and long-term sucess, so I think he's likely to be sensitive to it as a flaw in others. Seeing Aang as an opponent with a habit of throwing him into walls may not help him paint the most unbaised or full picture of the guy, but Zuko will be able to see certain aspects of Aang's personality very clearly, and be more wary of them than a friend who doesn't feel threstened by Aang or a mere acquantiance who has never seen him fight. Zuko has issues with Aang's nonviolent IDEAS- not Aang's total lack of violent actions or wholly easygoing emotions. From Zuko's perspective, Aang's ideals make no sense- he's far too well acquainted with aang as the violent harbringer of destruction to realize that Aang would actually care if he died. Zuko's aware enough to know that Aang really BELIEVES what he says- but also too aware of Aang's violence for this to make ANY sense to him. He doesn't see Aang the way Aang sees himself, or even the way a friend would have, despite Kuzon's influence. Throughout Embers, Zuko acutally seems to feel as threatened by Aang as he is annoyed by him, and I don't think Zuko ever really wanted to "teach him anger."

I do think Zuko HAS made a big mistake in his dealings with Aang in the events that lead up to being blown off the cliff, one I hope he manages to realize. More on that later; it ties in with my next point.

I think the main problem with Aang is going to be something along what cetraskies mentioned- Aang's carelessness- but I don't think the central point will be the issue of Zuko's death, excatly, but the consequences that death would have had on Dragon's Wings, the Earth Kingdom, and the Northern Fire Colonies. From Zuko's persepective,there was every reason Aang should have known Zuko's death would kickoff A LOT more deaths:

"If we leave Asagitatsu, she will erupt." Iroh's voice was iron. "If she does, it will destroy countless lives. More, perhaps, than the Fire Nation has ever slain in all these years of war. The Face-Stealer wishes this to happen, to slay entire peoples, and we cannot allow it. We must stand against evil. We must try to mend what the war has marred. That is why Dragons' Wings is here. That is why we will stand against General Fong, no matter the cost." (Iroh and Zuko, from a lot of evidence in Embers, seem to make a point to inform each other on what they've told Aang, what the Gaang has told them (as on the beach wit the "I'm sorry," etc.) And stuff from when Zuko was there:

"Suzuran's crew? Right now they're shielded from spirit malice - mostly - because they're following Captain Jee, he's following me, and I'm an exile."

"Again you come. And my dragon-child bids me not to slay you."

This establishes that Dragons Wings is needed to stop the giant volcano and -with THOUGHT- that Zuko is needed to keep Dragon's Wings away from spirit malice, as Aang already knows that Great Names who are NOT exiles have to follow the Fire Lord or spirits hit their people. So Aang is kind of still on the hook for losing his temper and "killing" a person who WILL SET OFF A CHAIN REACTION that will, as previously established "destroy countless lives. More, perhaps, than the Fire Nation has ever slain in all these years of war." Eep.

Except. From a more objective standpoint, Zuko is kind of on the hook, too. You don't use a Dead Man's Switch and then NOT TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT. Or- almost as bad- only tell your ALLIES. Tell EVERYONE- unless they're as crazy as Osai and instead see your switch as a useful button.

Now sure, Aang did have all the pieces of info. Azula would have picked right up on it- already has, from pervious chapters. Sure, Aang has a responsibility to put them together. He totally should have gotten it. Sure, getting into such blantant blackmail-like terminology would have been extremely awkward for Zuko. But Zuko had a responsibility, too. Zuko knows how bad Aang is at listening- he knows he needs to make an effort to be clear on the really, really important points, especially when this much is riding on clear communication between all parties.

Aang's point about nobody telling him stuff (in his rant to Sokka about the dragons who didn't tell him they were people)stands. Kuzon's habit of secrecy has carried over to Zuko in a rather damaging fashion. And Poor Communication Kills.

People have accused Vathara of not giving Zuko enough major flaws and mistakes- I disagrree.

It's just been a long time in building, really. The damaging effects of too much secrecy counts as a pretty big one, and it's been gaining momentum for a WHILE. Okay, Zuko had no reason to think Aang would try to kill him. He was trying to trust Aang. But if you're keeping the blackmail option in reserve as Plan B, and the bad effects of the blackmail- hundreds of thousands dead, most likely- is going to go off when you die WHETHER YOUR'E USING IT AS BLACKMAIL OR NOT... please tell the people you're going off to break into prison with. Very slowly, and clearly.

Even if some of them don't like you. Especially if they don't like you. They need to know there are important strategic reasons for you to stay alive- not for your sake, but for the sake of the hundreds of thousands of people who you have to remember to be responsible for.

Part of this not feeling the need to ensure his safety this way is Zuko's trust in Toph (yay!) andhis slight overconfidence in his ability to take care of himself (with luck THAT bad, it's... well, less yay.)

I'm not really angry or terribly disappointed in Zuko- I quite like these two flaws, as they fit him and show what a well-rounded character he is- but I do hope someone points out to him how badly this could have gone.

Iroh needed the couple of lectures he got (though there is no evidence he learned from them- he seems to be by far the most static character confronted with thier own mistakes); well, Zuko honestly needs one too. Teruko keeps telling him- "Not. Expendable." It's the kind of trait that looks noble at first, and then starts looking dumb. (Then REALLY dumb.)

Which I really, really like. It sounds like I'm upset abiut this, probably, but I really appreciate the specific flaws Vathara's worked into Zuko. They don't seem like flaws at first, but they grow over time, and I'll enjoy seeing who gets to call him on it. Should be cool.

Radom note: I assumed the swampbenders, Hakoda, et al, had all accidentally washed up near Byakko. Not sure why. Maybe becuase Sokka mentioned it wasn't far, even if it was on the other side of the Caldera? (And the subs might have made a circle around just to try to throw the boats/baloons off the scenet, even if they couldn't shake Makoto.)

cetraskies: This is not a terribly logical reasons in universe, but I don't think the swampbenders would have been killed entirely offscreen. (Not when Hue was established to be alive when during the escape after the failed invasion.) Which is mostly why I think they'll show up again.

If that's what you think, donahermurphyabc. Even if the swampbenders have kin in Byakko, it seems rather presumptuous to try to lead Makoto to the one place that is sheltering Air renegades (Yamabushi), amongst other inhabitants.

Otherwise, your sound reasoning and logic is as flawless as usual. I didn't think about Zuko understanding Aang's temper tantrums until you pointed it out. It fits really well, since Zuko has a lot of anger besides the angst issues going on inside of him. And yes, he does give voice to Aang's most glaring flaws. Zuko may not be able to teach Aang firebending, but he can still do something to teach Aang about keeping his temper and his bending under control. From an outsider's point of view, it seems rather hypocritical, doesn't it, for someone as temperamental as Zuko to try to teach Aang about self-restraint. Zuko himself is still in training and he's not in a good position to support Aang, not at all, not being who he was and who he is now.

It comes to the point where the gAang has realized that their secrecy has done far more damage than they could have ever thought possible. Even than the Fire Nation. I never liked how Toph had to tiptoe around with Sokka just to have a sane, civilized, competent conversation about the state of the world or their fellow friends. As wonderful as they are, they have made big mistakes as well. It was sweet and generous and totally out of character for Toph to make Katara feel comfortable and to make her know that she's not alone, as well as Sokka with Aang. It proves that through it all, Toph and Sokka are the greatest friends and True Companions anyone can have, and they are so lucky and blessed.

Still, it's irresponsible of Toph and Sokka to lull Katara and Aang into a false sense of security. I understand why Toph and Sokka did it, but I'm still mad at them.

Random thought: No wonder Zuko's running into walking whales. Everywhere around the North Pole is full of evil spirits and dead bodies, and creepy dangerous stuff is being carried away on currents as far as Kyoshi Island. I bet the usual huntings grounds (the ones that let the walking whales hide for like two thousand years) are completely messed up right now.

I think the biggest consequence of Aang nearly killing Zuko will lie with Iroh. He's already said and proven that he won't let anyone get away with threatening/harming Zuko. This could make Iroh stop thinking of Aang as a young, niave, out-of-his-time avatar and instead start thinking of him as a dangerously impulsive, incompetent avatar. This would be particularly bad as Iroh is a Grand Master of the White Lotus (one purpose of which is to 'remove' bad/dangerous avatars).

Just thought of something/ Zuko got the Spiritual wound needed to become Yaoren from his father right? And given's Aang reaction when he found out he could possibly kill a spirit if he forced a volcano to not erupt, spirits are probably close to sacred to him.

So how would he react if he found out the Firelord can literally burn your spirit itself? It would be Nightmare Fuel for him, wouldn't it?

bluesaltire, the Gaang would try to protect Aang but ironically, it would be Zuko would be the most effective, namely be describing Aang as a careless idiot who really needs to learn control but doesn't need to be killed. Even if he only says it because of what the Northern Water Tribe intends to train their Avatar for.

I agree that the Gaang and even Zuko would defend Aang. I'm thinking more of how this may affect or change the different plans in motion. Up to not Iroh has been willing to give Aang the benefit of the doubt but I really think this might change after he finds out about what happened.

Snow Angel 7, Aang certainly did think that spirits were sacred but he also thought all spirits were essentially good. He's starting to realise that some spirits are dangerous and need to be killed or sent back to the Spirit World. He's already decided that he's going to get rid of Temul and he would have gotten rid of Boots if he didn't think that Toph would kick his ass for it.

But you're right, the idea that a person could damage someone elses spirit that way would probably be nightmare fuel for Aang if he ever found out.

Snow Angel 7, Zuko didn't get his spiritual wound from his father. After the Siege of the North Pole, that Iroh prayed to the Moon to help Zuko. Yue gave him help alright...by making him a waterbender.

The way I read is that Zuko got his spirit wound from Ozai hitting him close to one of his Chakras compounded by the fact the wound was made by the person that he is most loyal to; his Father, his Lord, and the Fire Lord all in one.

"The fire-blow you took seared you down to your spirit. It left a hole in you. A scarred hole, where some of your own energy should have been. An… empty place, Yue could fill with water." Amaya winced. "But to do that - she ripped out the scar."

Meaning Yue didn't deliver a spiritual wound to Zuko, she opened one already there. One that Zuko got from Ozai.

Which means, in a sense, OZAI got the ball rolling. Is this a case of Hoist By His Own Petard?

I think we just found the "Skrull" that's been screwing with Katara's head for some time. That was like the Bitch!Katara that all the alternate shippers call up in their ships. What the hell was that? Hama was buried properly, Yue saved Zuko months ago, none of the expat waterbenders would hurt a descendant of Shidan, so who the hell pulled a Deus Ex: Human Revolution mindhack on Katara?

Makoto with her ability to control water monsters, she does want Zuko dead.

@cetraskies

Sorry it took me so long to reply to this is the first time I have been hear in weeks. In canon Ozai was a shortsighted, insane, and bigoted person that probably didn't know what his father was planning with the waterbenders, or he just didn't care. I think Ozai may have changed the orders from capture to termination as one of his first acts as Firelord.

Hmm, have we seen that spirit before? Big, red spider-thing? I think it showed up on the beach when Toph was fiddling with salt water. Unless I'm misremembering. That said, if we've seen it before, it's been following them for some time. Actually, with the way it was messing with Katara's mind, I'd thought it was another haima-jiao until Big Red showed up.

;;exhale;; Oh, boy. Are both Aang and Katara in deep...crap. While Katara may have been partially mind-controlled, and Aang was working on incomplete information, that still doesn't excuse the fact that they tried to kill the ONE ally they desperately needed to bust out Shiyu. Wherever Zuko ends up, and please dear GOD don't let it be anywhere that could get him killed, I hope he's willing to cut at least Katara a little slack. Aang? Not so much. While they may not be entirely at fault, this IS their responsibility.

Also, the entire conversation Aang had with Shih made me snicker, and if this wasn't an anvil sized hint that Aang is in fact Shih's kid I will be shocked. And ;;fistpump;; vindication is sweet that the Kenshin-expy expertly wielded the clue-bat and made a few concepts FINALLY sink into Aang's head. I just hope it wasn't too little, too late.

“Good men mean well. We just don't always end up doing well.”

blackflamerose, it wasn't a red spider thing Sokka saw. The quote goes: "Something sinuous slipped through the waves. That... can't be as big as it looks. Except that red-spider-thing that had gone after Toph had been plenty big, and Hei Bai had been even bigger, and... oh, frost it." So it wasn't a spider thing.

But we know Makoto has been described as sinous. And we know she has water spirits under her control. I'm betting it's her.

So, Zuko told Katara there was something in the ocean. He's now in that ocean and when Katara has time to think about it, she's going to be the first to realize exactly how much danger he's in, especially since she saw him waterbend.

Ah, thank you, Shimmer, I completely misremembered. So, not a spider thing, but I'm not convinced it's Makoto, mostly because I don't think Makoto is capable of actual mind control. Controlling mind controlling water spirits? Yes. Screwing with one's head through words alone? Yes. Actually getting her claws dirty with the mind control? Don't think so. Whatever it is, Shih mentioned that he didn't QUITE ward the place as well he thought he had. And everyone else may be paying the price.

Onto a different topic, I just hope Toph won't completely break from all this. She's got Shih for support, and hopefully Sokka, but still. I think she took the attack on Zuko the worst of all of them. It kind of reminded me that she's actually the youngest one there.

;;shivers, whines;; I think everyone needs a hug!!

@jwagne51: You're right about that. I think Azulon meant to probably Turn the waterbenders - but Ozai got impatient and greedy and decided after getting the Dragon Throne, that he'd eliminate the waterbenders.

@Kalaong: Ignorance is no excuse for Aang to use his bending, which Sokka has told him to be careful with, just to push someone into the deep, dark ocean. Good intentions don't count for shit if you cannot do anything good in the end.

@blackflamerose: Aang and Katara are in deep trouble. Sokka is NOT happy from his tone of voice when telling Aang just what he did. The "no give" kind of gave him away. Toph...well. Aang and Katara are going to have to face a very righteously outraged earthbending Master. She's put up with their childish and rather foolish antics for a while now. Why should Zuko cut Katara any slack anyways? She knows so much about Zuko and the Fire Nation and the Spirits, she was willing to find any reason (excuse, really) to attack Zuko, all in the name of protecting the children. I don't think Toph will appreciate the insult. Who has better judgement in character? Who has better senses? Who is better ultimately at bending? Who is the one called "Master"? The beach was one thing; the Painted Lady was another; Hama made things wonderfully worst, and then the Invasion where Katara pretty much laid Byakko and all its inhabitants to the Fire Lord's wrath...instigating a fight with the only one who can help them get Aang a firebending teacher, Sokka's new playmate, and Toph's future husband (?)...

There is a limit to how much one's patience and tolerance can be tried. Sokka needs to tie his sister up. She can't be left to her own.

I meant Makoto was using one of the water spirits under her control to mind control Katara. But I can see where I wasn't exactly clear in my explanation. Sorry.

I hope Zuko reveals he's still alive in a badass way. Mabey blasting Makato or whatever it is with a geyser of boiling water?

I can picture him using this whole thing as proof that Aang needs to focus on learning how to do little things and not just big things. Aang clearly didn't mean to rip a chunk of the temple away but he did, because he ALWAYS bends big. And Zuko is used to things going bad for him so I can picture him using events to support his point.

Just had a thought. Zuko will probably make a point to go after whatever bent Katara's mind. Not because he likes her or anything. But because he'll be remember dead Dai Li, Bon on the verge of death and poor Amaya, his Shelter and his Foster Mother in the grasp of a monster.

And the thing that bent Katara is like the Haima-jiao.

I can also picture after the fight, Zuko complaining about seeing double or something because of Aang gale blasting him. And him still kicking ass despite. Would certainly suport Sokka's belief about Zuko being Implacable Man

Shimmer712, Aang's supposedly an airbending Master, and yet, he uses a fucking GALE against one bender (while Yaoren, he is still vulnerable to the Avatar's awesome power). I'm starting to wonder just exactly what Mastery means to Aang.

Can't this be filed in the same drawer as Koizilla?

Aang's Viewpoints;

• 1: Zuko and Katara are fighting.
• 2: Zuko once put Katara in a life-threatening coma with a sheet of paper.
• 3: Zuko Never Stays Down!(ranging from - mattress slam = two minutes later he's throwing fireballs again - full-body smack against solid ice = ten minutes peace, then he runs for it while everyone's mourning the moon)
• 4: Katara is nice to him 24/7 while Zuko NEVER misses a chance to call him a spoiled idiot(whose family was murdered by his - fatty-fatty-no-parents).

How was he supposed to know that;

• A: Katara started the fight because she's nearing her breaking point due to being mindjacked by an unknown party.
• B: Zuko would actually go down easy for the first time EVER?

It feels like yet another Diabolus Ex Machina; everything going perfectly wrong at the same time for whatever reason.

Kalaong, Aang RIPPED A PART OF THE TEMPLE AWAY! And given his shock when he noticed, he didn't even mean too. Argue for his side all you want, you can deny he needs to work on fine control and not just count on blustering through on sheer power.

Because sometimes, that won't be an option.

I was trying to point out that, despite the collateral damage, Aang has hit Zuko a heck of a lot harder than that in the past with absolutely NO EFFECT. Zuko is like a Recurring Boss - no matter how hard he is hit, he ALWAYS COMES BACK FOR MORE. Every previous time they fought, the Gaang only survived by RUNNING AWAY.

I had to re-read that part about five times, because Zuko getting one-shotted could be considered even more of an Ass Pull than Aang butchering someone like Dexter Morgan.

Aang never misses an opportunity to assume the worst in those he doesn't know well. It will be one hell of a shock once he connects the dots and realizes that Shih is his father, legendary Onmitsu and formerly Azulon's pet killer. What's more, Shih has been telling him about family and people having their reasons and NOT RUNNING AWAY from one's problems.

Katara was mindjacked because she's weak. The reason why that ghost was able to possess her is because she was looking for every possible little excuse to get Zuko to REACT to her - to prove to Aang, Sokka and Toph that he's not a good guy who's only using them for his evil, twisted ends. She was feeling all sad and lonely and WHY AREN'T YOU ON MY SIDE about Zuko, getting unnecessarily paranoid, trapping herself so effectively that she made herself prey.

Aang doesn't know what Katara is going through because she puts on a happy mask for him, much to detriment of her own health. Toph is right about Aang - he's a massive hypocrite. I'm surprised that Shih went to comfort Toph, but then again, it's alright to be mad at family, right? His kid isn't the brightest tool in the shed.

Oddly enough I don't see Zuko being all the mad about what happened. I can just see him getting back and first making sure Katara is sane, then being somewhat relieved that yes Aang can try to kill people. Though I'm sure he'll be pissed when he finds out that Aang didn't mean for it to happen.

And Zuko being "one-shotted", at an air temple where you have to be able to fly in order to survive is not all that surprising.

As I said before, True Metis "I can picture him using events to support his point" about Aang needed to be more careful with his bending. He was complaining to Toph about it a couple of chapters ago.

And he might be angry. But with the thing doing the mindbending. Though I think he will be more set on leaving once they have Shiyu.

Aang will be horried when he hears Zuko's side. Especially if he finds out the point of the fire was to SHELTER Katara from the mindbending, not hurt her. Remember, the Haima-jiao was vulnerble to fire and so is this thing is what Katara said is anything to go by. Remember? "then the fire circle burned, but it burned that sneak more"

So Aang nearly killed someone who tried to PROTECT Katara. That's going to hurt him hard.

Also, why is no one concerned about Zuko being in the Ocean with the mindbender and maybe Makoto?

Huh, so it's ok for a lowly Yaoren to take all the abuse the world can mete out, but not for the Avatar to break a fingernail? Kalaong, did you not read what Teo said about Langxue NOT wanting to be a Yaoren? When Katara was blasted by that iron door on the Fire Nation ship her father stole, was it really alright that she take Aang's little temper tantrums JUST because he's the Avatar?

True Metis, I don't see Zuko being anymore happier to see Aang and Katara again after the crap they put him through. He's helping them find Shiyu so that Aang can finally begin his firebending training, even though he's not supposed to be out of his newly acquired territory. I don't see how Sokka and Toph can trust Katara anymore than they can get Aang to really listen to them. Zuko has all the right to be furious at them - after all, if the Lord of Dragons' Wings dies, guess who's going to come after the gAang. Not Asagitatsu, but the whole village and then some other certain royals.

I don't think the thing in the water is Makoto, although I think it's on her "side."

It's not a spirit because it got through the spirit wards, it's not a fire-bender because Zuko's firewall thingie stopped it, and if it was tugging on Katara and Zuko's emotions via their water-bending like that it's a waterbender. If dragons "count" as human because they occasionally marry humans, wouldn't water-benders "count" as the sea wolf things since they occasionally go to the sea?

I think it's one of the dark water dragons,sea serpent, otter-crocodile, whale that walks, like the freaky skeleton that had Zuko wanting to run like heck in the White Lotus cave, right before they found the human skeletons.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5398503/57/Embers Per Langxue, kadzait are "a LOT like dragons" with a significant look at guy who is mostly dragon. The skeleton is also not in the ocean because, vs dark dragons: "fire-spirits don't usually get to stick around long enough to go bad. Sea serpents? A haima-jiao can move right in."

The skeleton they saw was at least fifty feet, and they just keep growing after they're driven out.

It's probably Hama's ghost, accidentally invoked.

Scary thought: What if part of why Aang just actually tried to fatally attack someone is because he got mind-bent by the thing in the water? Glancing at Katara almost killing Azula, during an extended fight, made him freeze. He doesn't understand family— and he loves Katara. That might be enough of an opening for something bending like crazy to reach him, if he wasn't on guard. (And is he ever on guard against his own impulses?) EDIT: just checked, Shih says waterbenderS.

Aang attacked because he thought that Zuko was trying to hurt Katara, not even assessing the situation carefully. As for Aang being mindbent...I don't know if the Avatar can be mindbent. He's pretty much warded from feeling the usual soul-crushing bonds that the Elements have with the Nations.

I doubt "is the Avatar is immune to mindbending" has been tested. And if it has and the results are that he can't be mindbent, the data didn't survive the years as the temple elders were going to try and mindbend him.

And there's the whole better safe than sorry. While it might not be necessary to protect Aang from that thing, its better to give unneeded protection than to not give protection and find it was necessary afterall.

cetraskies I don't think Zuko will be happy, I just don't think almost dying will effect him all that much anymore. It'll be the fact that it was an accident that will really piss him off.

Except the fact that Zuko has a mission to accomplish, and being blasted off a cliff by the one he's set out to help is just NOT NICE. Zuko is on a time limit here, remember? Aang even more so. He really can't afford such accidents to happen around the help he's been getting.

That reminds me. Sokka may be more than angry with Aang and Katara, but then there's Temul. Toph will tear after Zuko if not for Shih. I wonder if Sokka will demand an explanation from them. Hmm, it was a bad idea to split up when there was something creepy running around the Temple, after that experience with the Painted Lady, Sokka should have known better. Hell, he shouldn't have ever left Katara alone to her own devices. He KNEW that. He knew there was bad history between his sister and Zuko. Maybe he'll actually buck up as big brother and future Chief of the Southern Water Tribe and actually quarantine her. This is the second time that Katara has been possessed. He suspected from many chapters ago that his sister could not be trusted, not being able to help herself in the Fire Nation with their mother's killer loose.

Temul may just decide to come out again to express Sokka's emotions if he doesn't. "What have you done?" I can just imagine her saying that in that scary Scar-like way. If not, then maybe she'll throw Aang off the cliff, since he can fly and all, to get him started on actually doing something productive to find Zuko. Sokka may be in shock as well as Toph, but Temul will tell him that Zuko isn't dead, being hard to kill and all that. That's before Sokka makes sure to bind his sister to his side so that she can't go anywhere as well as telling Aang that if he can't find Zuko, he'd better get ready to kill the Fire Lord. Operation Boiling Rock may as well not happen.

Azula and her crew are around somewhere. It would be an ironic twist of fate for Azula to end up saving Zuko. His luck is just nonexistent. Then the gAang and formerly Ozai's Angels may just end up meeting again.

...and I think Azula may just have found a way to repay her brother, after all. IF she can still get into contact with Zuko, IF it is her that finds him first instead of Aang. She will find, yet again, that the Avatar does indeed have the brains of a shrimp. The Boiling Rock ought to interest her, and that's putting it lightly. Mai can pull some strings with the Warden, and then Zuko and Sokka will have a bit of an easier time getting the exiled Fire Sage out. Maybe Suki and Hakoda and Tao, if Sokka doesn't get carried away.

@cetraskies Aang got possessed by a spirit before, and Amaya's similar possession points to him having the vulnerabilities of a /BENDER/, though not of that bender's nation. I'm not phrasing it very well, but for example: I don't think you'd find someone who gained fire as a second element would be vulnerable to loyalty sickness, even though they do need sun and fire to stay sane. I would guess it has something to do with how deeply the element is ingrained to your very being, since non-benders can suffer from their nation's weakness as well.

I just realized that Zuko is his own Metaphysical Grandfather.

Zuko has known he's Kuzon reincarnated for a while now.

@Foxfier: So, Aang can be possessed. I don't believe for a second that that red-spidery thing that possessed Katara had Aang. He just bended on sheer instinct. If he can't feel the ties to Air like Ty Lee does, then what about the other three elements?

The red-spider thing wasn't in this chapter. The sea spider was just mentioned as being huge, while this one was huge-er. (And intelligent enough to put thoughts in the mind of stuff, instead of just trying to eat someone.) As I explained, there's a difference between what you feel because you're a bender and what you feel because you're part of a nation. (Incidentally, Jwagne51, the mental image of Zuko singing "I'm my own grandpa" is now trying to form in my mind.)

I get what you're saying, kind of. Aang is an airbender, but he does not have a "Nation". Ty Lee has a Nation...two, actually, but she's Air to her blood and soul, even if she has Fire in her spirit. Both can still choke if they find out they've been eating lies. Too bad Aang can't really feel what she felt when she realized that her Way is a lie.

@cetraskies I mean that I just got the reference to Fry from Futurama.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the subject of Katara using bloodbending. No one of her friends saw her fight with Zuko, but Toph and Sokka are able to find the inconvenient truth. Toph just by touching her (remember the failed Invasion when Toph was suggesting Byakko as sanctuary) and Sokka has intuition on his sister that Aang can't match.

I can't imagine Zuko won't ask about her stopping his heart, if only so he try a figure a way to block, like how he figured how to keep his movement after being hit by a chi-blocker.

Sokka might not think about how Katara attack, just that she did unprovoked and given that she stated something was in her head, his focus may be a bit distracted. Toph is off being comforted by Shih and it was Katara's silence that clued her in, not touching her. So it may be missed for a bit unlesss Katara confesses.

just had a thought. You know those WM Gs about Zuko being able to turn into a dragon? Imagine if this was a chapter where Vathara decided to confirm it. And Zuko's trying to figure out how the HELL does he change back.

I know, probably not but funny thought.

Dunno if Zuko is gonna transform into a dragon. He's already a dragon-child through his parents, he's a yaoren, and he's the reincarnation of his great-grandfather. I doubt that he needs to be given anymore power-ups.

Katara absolutely cannot forgive nor forget how much she HATES bloodbending and Hama and what she did - now when she finally clues in that Zuko is indeed a Fire Nation waterbender, which Sokka and Toph already know, she's going to feel even worst about herself than ever.

I did so that it probably wouldn't happen but was still a funny thought.

An even funnier thought: Zuko's spirit was clearly changed by becoming a yaoren, as represented by the red and "moon-white" dragons. And Amaya says "Though when we have legends of shape-shifters, it's the human who goes to the sea. Not the other way around." And Zuko didn't cry when he was born, not until after his mother healed him. Maybe THAT's why Agni doesn't like to share dragon-children. I don't really think this is going to happen, but it would be amusing. Might have a better chance against the evil walking whale, then.

I do think he's going to get washed up on Azula's shore, possibly while being chased by a giant otter-crocodile that can mindbend most waterbenders. That could be a case of spirits intending him extra extra bad luck and accidentally giving him help because they don't understand humans.

Oddly, I don't see Zuko as being terribly freaked out about the attempt to kill him. Either from Aang or Katara. His behavior shows that he's pretty understadning about being mindjacked, and Katara doesn't seem at all like she's going to be inclined to make excuses on her own behalf, considering she thinks Zuko's dead. Now if she were to conceal how much he was activley helping her against the mind spirit in order to make Aang feel better, that would be different. Not that I think she would. It's more that I think Zuko reacts far more strongly to dishonesty than attempts on his life.

(Think about what he tells Iroh after the Chase "I know what you're going to say. She's my sister and I should be trying to get along with her." Even after Azula struck with lethal intent. To Zuko, that doesn't matter so much, becuase Azula has always been striking at HIM with lethal intent, and it's heavily implied everyone ignored those attempts and acted like everything was normal. Meaning, if Zuko lashed out against a sister trying to kill him, he was taught by the people whose example he trusted that he had to behave like a semi-normal good big brother to her instead of a terrified soon-to-be murder victim. It's heratbreaking, but from very early on Zuko has been conditioned to ignore attempts on his life, even by those he trusted most. Azula was attempting to smother him two years BEFORE Ursa's banishment, and apparently Ursa didn't do anything overt after telling her it was wrong, becuase Ozai was able to turn the tables by making Zuko look like a liar. That's five years in court being told his life didn't matter enough to get upset over, and learning to hate liars.)

Now, if Aang or Katara were to lie/conceal/make a lame excuse for something, I expect he would blow up. Zuko is perfectly capable of both sudden bursts of temper and long-held grudges... most often about dishonesty and "idiocy." He's probably still angry about that lie back at the South Pole, even. But I don't think Aang and Katara are going to let themselves do that- they think they just KILLED Zuko.

I think Zuko's going to be far less angry at them for the near-death experience than they would expect. From Zuko's point of view, this is neither terribly unusual nor unexpected, except for the stupid mindspirit's interference. But he focuses on the worst and most reckless parts of Aang and Katara's characters a LOT, so this isn't really some huge lifechanging thing for him. Especially if he think this might just prompt Aangto be less reckless, or Katara her grudge.

But from their point of view, it's cataclysmic- they don't think they've ever almost killed Zuko before. Not REALLY. Now, Aang wasn't knowingly attempting to kill him this time, but he was behaving recklessly in a manner totally consistent with what Zuko has previously termed "attempts to kill him." Considering that concussions do seem to work the same in the Avatar verse (as in, can be potentially fatal) it's not too strange that this should be Zuko's opinion on Aang's habit of destroying structures by chucking Zuko into them.

I think the reunion is going to be surprisingly sweet, actually. (Unless he's actually WITH Azula at the time. I can see that leading to misunderstandings.)

The one possible point of contention: Whether they tell Iroh or not. I can see that going either way. (You thought I was dead for a week and you didn't even have the guts to man up to it? What were you going to tell my people, that I tripped over my own feet and fell off the cliff?) Or, just as bad (You told my Uncle I was DEAD! What the hell! Do you know what losing Lu Ten did to him?) Either way, he's likely to be a little annoyed about that. I kind of hope they do tell Iroh- I want to see Aang sitting down and trying to figure out the culturally appropriate ways for dealing with accidentally killing someone. He feels awful about it, and he's not stupid- he's not going to pull out "the monks said you have to forgive" when he thinks he just killed Zuko. Poor kid. Even if this is going to end up being a good lesson for him in the long run- and is that why it was so easy to "kill" Zuko? Maybe the spirits realized Zuko could repay his uncle's debt by making Aang realize "death is precious, too."

I feel sad for everyone in this chapter. (And I do hope nobody's mean enough to tell Aang Zuko was Kuzon's reincarnation while everyone thinks Zuko is DEAD.)

donahermurphayabc, I doubt that the gAang are going to tell Iroh anything at this point, since they're kind of far off from Dragons' Wings. That, and they're on an angst high, which is appropriate given what they did. Sokka may understand the implications of Zuko's "death", and he could issue a grim warning to Aang that the people of Dragons' Wings as well as Iroh will indeed want revenge on him and the rest of the gAang. Needless to say, Asagitatsu is scary enough, but then there's the matter of Azula and her two Dangerous Ladies...

Sokka and Toph wouldn't allow any sort of excuse or lies to spew out from either Katara or Aang. Not this time. Not when Toph blames them rightfully so, and Sokka told Aang before to be careful about his bending, as well as being understanding and trying so damned hard to help Aang, enlisting Zuko's help to find a firebending teacher for him. I wouldn't blame Sokka if he loses patience with them.

As wonderful a reunion between the Dangerous Ladies and the gAang would be, I imagine only Zuko and Azula collaborating on a bit about busting Shiyu out of the Boiling Rock. Since Mai's uncle is the Warden, she could pull some strings. Someone put up on the WMG page that Azula would be Aang's teacher, since getting Shiyu is kind of being delayed. Ty Lee did say that she only honored Avatar Aang with a lesson he needed painfully. In my opinion, Ty Lee would be a good teacher for Aang. She's one of the evil airbenders, a Fire Nation kunoichi, who could bridge understanding for Aang between Air and Fire. That, and she understands families, which Aang does not, even when he has Katara and Sokka. More, she and Aang would actually be able to talk. Sokka, Katara and Toph are great, but they don't understand Air. Ty Lee may be of a different sect, but she'd be able to keep up with Aang in terms of Air culture.

Doesn't the same issue that applies to Zuko apply to Azula though? She's not human. Not as much as a Yaoren perhaps but she's got a fair bit of dragon in her.

donahermurphyabc, your point about Zuko brushing off attempts to kill may cause some fridge horror for the G Aang if they sit around to think HOW he developed to attitude. Coupled with them knowing Ozai gave Zuko his scar and it may dawn on them that Zuko's childhood was full of fear and wariness.

cetraskies: I was thinking a message hawk, but you have a definite point. Even if Sokka has Temul's memories of sending hawk messages, they'd still have to travel to GET one. Travel into the fire Nation- not exactly a great idea, especially considering everyone's headspace right now.

I do wonder if Sokka will remember "The only way to take out a great name and have peace is to take out all their sworn with him." Zuko was telling Toph this, but it seems to be common knowledge in the Fire Nation. Eee. Politically, this is a total disaster no matter how you think about it.

Shimmer712: Oh, I would love to see that! And if Zuko is forced to explan the smothering thing as a reason for why they should only try to wake him up from a distance... ouch. I can see him being all calm and rational about it, too. I kind of think his attitude toward this in chapter 76 was foreshadowing of how he might treat that issue with the Gaang later. Toph and Sokka at least knows there have been assasination attempts on Zuko as a kid, Sokka's he's mostly basing stuff off Temul's perception of great names, and I suspect Zuko's early life was way worse. And as much as Zuko cares about Toph, I don't think it's likly he brought up that issue in conversation- he doesn't like talking about his childhood unless he has to. Most interesting would be if he referenced Azulon's attempt to order "his" death at age ten.

I really hope we get some of this conversation from Aang's point of view. Although Zuko has learned where Aang is coming from, Aang really doesn't have a chance of finding out where ZUKO is coming from unless someone tells him. Now, while Aang has a duty to understand the Fire Nation, I have to say don't entirely blame a twelve-year-old for his unawareness of child abuse in general. (Although his own experience with the subtle stuff the monks were doing did make him the only gaang memeber to realize why Zuko COULDN'T trust them- he'd been hurt too deeply, by someone supposed to look after him. Poor Aang and Zuko.) But that eight-year-old Zuko was fighting for his life and no one cared (and god, now WONDER Azula is so messed up, she was CERTAIN no one cared at SIX)... well, I don't think Aang could ever suspect that level of abuse, or the eventual damage it must have caused, without being told about it first. ...These kids make me sad. I really hope that all have a happy reunion.

What I'm hoping for most is actually that Aang realizes he actually misses Zuko for Zuko's sake, and not just becuase he feels horrified for being at fault. I'd kind of like him to start to realize that a world without Zuko is a little less bright, and that, while he may not have liked Zuko all that much while he was there, he misses him a lot. I'm of the opinion that Kuzon's memories are making Zuko feel like Aang is an annoying kid brother that he REALLY DISLIKES RIGHT NOW. I'd kind of like Aang to realize that he'd grown to care about Zuko as a person, even though they didn't get along.

sorry, double post

Zuko would be totally rational about the multiple assassination attempts, but why tell any of the gAang? He may like Toph and has come to respect Sokka, but the other two have no real need to know any of that. I can imagine Zuko sizzling at Aang's "It was an accident!" since he blew him off the cliff. If Aang can "accidently" kill someone, then why doesn't he do the same to Ozai? Not that Zuko will like that thought, or even give voice to it, but Toph doesn't appreciate the hypocrisy. Sokka sees no other way than to kill Fire Lord Ozai, and Katara expects it, too. If Zuko doesn't come back next chapter, I can see Sokka somberly telling Aang that he'll have to do what's necessary. With no Zuko, no Shiyu, and without firebending, he can't stop Ozai without killing him. I can imagine Aang screaming in denial "NO~" and flying away on his glider, because that's what he does whenever he can't face.

As for sending a messenger hawk to Dragons' Wings, don't forget about Shidan, Byakko, as well as Earth King Kuei. It's not just the new citizens of Dragons' Wings who'll be angry. Kuei made a deal with Zuko, believing him and IN him to create a nice buffer zone between the Ba Sing Se and the Northern Air Temple (where now new airbenders are coming out). Kuei's opinion of the Avatar is the most positive - even when he knows of Aang's many misdeeds in his palace. If he were to lose his one good (ex)Fire Nation ally, the one teaching his Dai Li Shirong to firebend, Aang's international relations are going to go down the drain. Toph's parents already dislike the Avatar for "kidnapping" their daughter.

For now, I hope Sokka ties Katara up. I'm surprised he's let her get away with all that she's done up til now. She's psychologically unstable, has been made worst because of Hama, and she's been possessed twice and has bloodbent TWICE. Water Tribe culture insists on stopping the crazies from getting any crazier (remember the Wendigo and the Cold Ones). It's amazing how much Sokka has slacked off on his big-brotherly duties. I don't see how can he just let this go.

I don't want Aang realizing that Zuko is Kuzon reincarnated. I don't see how he'll ever really learn to see Zuko for himself then.

cetraskies: I was thinking maybe, Zuko finding out it was an accident that Aang nearly killed him and complaining that at least when Azula tried it was deliberate and calculated.

Sooka will probably take up his Big Brother duties. With Hama he could say she was tricked and manipulated. In the beach, Aang nearly died, it was stressful and she happened to hit her breaking point. I'm not saying he was doing it consciously but Katara is his baby sister and their mom DIED to protect her, it would be like making a mockery of her sacrifice if he had treated her like a crazy.

Hey, if Zuko goes and pays another visit to the Spirit World, will he see Kya again?

Oh, you have a definite point. Zuko is not a chatty guy. Definitely not about personal stuff. I guess this is one of those cases where the fact that I WANT the G Aang to be able to react to Zuko's childhood is overriding my rational expectations. I'm the same way about the story of why he got his scar.

"I don't want Aang realizing that Zuko is Kuzon reincarnated. I don't see how he'll ever really learn to see Zuko for himself then." - I completely agree. Without Aang getting a chance to really understand Zuko's mostivations and starting to see him for who he is, finding out about Kuzon... well, Aang might be happy/unhappy about it, but I honestly don't care, becuase I think it would permanently ruin and chance Aang and Zuko have for a legitimate friendship in the future. I'd rather have the two of them wait around being annoyed at each other and put off being friends until they're all into their late thirties or something, than have Aang start seeing Zuko as Kuzon's reincarnation. There is no way that Zuko would ever believe that Aang actually cared about him, or was being "friends" with anything other that a subpar reflection of Kuzon.

I can certainly sympathize with the desire to tie Katara up. Three reasons I don't think Sokka will go for it 1) Hakoda's reaction to the practice on Kyoshi Island says a lot about how the Southern Tribe might view that practice, and despite Temul's memories, I think Sokka still feels a little differently about firebending than waterbending. He's very good about getting over prejudice, but firebending killed his mother. I think that haunted him nearly as much as it did Katara, though he's found ways to deal with it more constructively. (The problem with Katara is, more than the firebenders, she's always blamed herself. Though they both loved their mother just as much, Sokka was able to escape that tragedy with a few less issues.)But I honestly think this represents a turning point in Katara's character. She is forthright when accepting blame, and she did not sugar-coat things for Aang. Her focus was on the horror of Aang's/their actions, rather than on comforting Aang. This is a good exmaple of focusing on objective morality rather than the good of the family or tribe. Just as Azula caring about family is a very positive sign that her spirit is becoming more balanced, Katara looking outward FROM family/tribe is a positive sign that HER spirit is also becoming more balanced (though she does not have as far go to as Azula, thank goodness.)

2) Sokka does have the ties of water in his heart, and the well-being of his baby sister is a top priority. (Maybe fir heart-ties too, now? Interesting point. Non-benders are clearly still bound by thier element- see Mai breaking loyalty.)Tying up Katara doesn't constructively improve the long-term situation much. It's not like it would actually stop her if the mindtwisting spirit was actually going to take her over, and it's likely the thing in the water would have a far easier time going after her if she were tied up. And I think they all realize that this is way too "big" for a big brother's punishment.Nothing Sokka can do will actually fix the problem of a dead Zuko, and they all know it.

Going after Katara physically, with ropes, likely exacerbate her problems. No matter how angry Sokka is, he still loves his little sister, and he's going to try to go for the most rational solution. He hasn't been a perfect, no. He's made a lot of mistakes trying to understand just what Katara is going through, and sometimes didn't provide either all the support she needed OR the rational voice the group needed when making decisions. (Minivacations, etc.) But the sad thing is, he's really been in the role of parent for Katara as much as he percives her being the "mom" for him. I actually have far more sympathy for Katara than Aang- that thing has been around since at least last chapter, playing with her mind. She had a lot of hate for it to play with, and that's pretty awful. But I do believe she would have had the self-control to behave "responsibly" (ie, only verbal attacks) without its interference, which Aang didn't quite manage.

3)On that note, Aang is also a waterbender, and Sokka is paranoid enough to account for the fact that the spirit/ottercroc might try to twist his mind as well. I... don't THINK the creature was affecting Aang's mind and slowly pulling on his emotions and his panic for Katara. The main argument for it is that that setup was such a good idea for killing Zuko I'm almost having trouble believing there was no outside interference. The main argument against is that it's unlikely he chi was reaching out for the water- Aang reaches out for AIR.

Narratively, I think it works much better if Aang was not at all influenced by the spirit thing. I think it was very good for Aang to be put into a situation where

1) the mistake cannot be blamed on the Avatar State. (Fong's fortress, North Pole) 2) The mistake cannot be blamed on "evil firebending" ("The Deserter") 3) The mistake cannot be washed away because he didn't see the effects and they weren't permanent (Katara and the iron door.. that could have gone SO badly) or put at the blame of the victim (same thing- no wonder Toph was angry then) 4) It was not someone/something that "doesn't count," like Boots

If Aang looks back, he'll realize that all Zuko, Toph, and Sokka explicitly warned Aang about reckless airbending/bending in general, and they saw this coming months ago. Maybe he would have listened to Katara, but Katara only spoke about the Avatar State, becuase she was the victim (when he used regular bending.)T

This time, there is nothing else to blame. He has to change his behavior. He has to learn that NOT using restraint in order to deliberately avoid killing someone will eventually result in death.

This is a lesson he very much needs to learn.

...Ironically, this lesson will also kill him if he learns it properly before he faces Ozai. If his experience "accidentally killing" Zuko makes him hesistant, and Aang holds back facing Ozai at all, he's dead. And I'm including in that hypothtical situations where Aang has just revoked Kyoshi's decree and had Ozai charging after revenge for it, where Aang is not going after Ozai and is only defending himself. One of the reasons he won against Zuko so often, and by such a clear margin, is that Aang didn't really too much restraint. Restraint none of the time is an absolute DISASTER... but perfect restraint (With Aang's ideals about not hurting anyone) might just kill him. I'm very interested in seeing how Vathara handles this.

Interesting note: As of now, the plan is not to kill Fire Lord Ozai. (I do not think this is the smartest plan ever, but I can understand Sokka's reasons for suggesting it, especially considering that the G Aang seem to be under the mistaken impression that Azula is crazier than Ozai. An impression that Zuko's rants about Azula have only helped along. Sigh.)

Message hawks might be unlikely.. but depending how long Zuko's missing (And if he's swept out to the Fire Naiton, he could be missing for a WHILE), the rumor mill might spread the info of his "death" to some of those parties, especially if the G Aang informs even one group.

...International relations are definitely going to go down the drain, although I think Kuei (while certainly not heartless!) is going to be motivated more by the upcoming cloud of ash and frozen ground and famine when Asagitatsu erupts that Zuko's death in particular. (I think Kuei would want to be sympathetic when he knows the twelve-year-old perpetrator, while acting with gross negligence, sincerely did not mean to kill Zuko. But this is about his Kingdom, not what Kueis feeling. So I think there would be problems.)

I'm pretty darn glad Zuko's got the immunity that comes from being a main character. If he ever got reincarnated as yet another relative (Amaya and Iroh's kid, for example) it would be... well, extremely creepy. Though Toph would be pretty cheered up by it.

You're right about Sokka. Unlike Katara, he's able to take himself outside of his Tribe and look at the things objectively, from a good distance. Still, culture and tradition and habit are rather heavily ingrained factors, don't you think so? It would be a lie to say that Sokka doesn't follow the ways of his Tribe. It makes me wonder what he'll really do, if he's considering putting Katara somewhere safe (for the good of the Tribe and all). Hakoda never told his son about the Eastern Water Tribe (Kyoshi Island waterbenders) and how they treat those who happen to misbehave, so Sokka wouldn't know. He does know the way of his tribe, though. However, you're right, donahermurphyabc. Sokka has been changing his views on things ever since travelling with Aang. In chapter 62, he's starting to doubt the Water Tribe way of dealing with those unnamed.

Even so, that thing that got Katara is still around. She's too vulnerable. Sokka has known she's been putting on a happy face even though she's really unwell for a while now. He has to keep her safe right now. Since that creature is Water...I wonder if it can be stopped by Earth. Maybe if Toph can construct some sort of nice rock tent for her friend? If Toph isn't too mad. Ah, no wait, Aang can do it, since he's an Earthbender, too. Who's to say that the Water monster can't use Katara again against any of them? The speed of which the downward spiral that was her thoughts makes me worry. Sokka may not want to tie his sister up, but he does have a duty to PROTECT her.

As for killing Ozai, it's not like they can do it now. Not with Kyoshi's decree still in place.

Earth King Kuei is the heart of the Earth Kingdom. Of course he doesn't blame Aang for his ignorance and his mistakes. After all, Kuei made many in his life already. But the one thing that separates Kuei and Aang is that Kuei, like Zuko, was raised to responsibility. Duty compels Kuei forward, and being a King means that you can't see people as people all the time. Many times, it means seeing them as pawns. Zuko, while a good man that the Earth King recognizes him for, a man of great honor even, is nothing next to the safety of the people of the Earth Kingdom. That's why Kuei agreed to "let" Zuko set up Dragons' Wings. Avatar Aang may be one that saves the world, and is a good kid, and yes, it's tragic what happened to him and his people (whatever went on between Kuei's own and the Air Nomads), but he is NOTHING next to the life of his future wife and Queen, who will save him and his Kingdom. His Dai Li won't see it any other way.

Maybe a ring of fire— and Katara (possibly Aang, too) sitting/sleeping in the middle without a water bottle? With a backup stone cage, too....

Don't forget that there is an ELE due in a matter of weeks. That's always kind of thrown me, even in canon; Sozin was a genocidal madman. Why didn't anyone besides Roku see Ozai's "Operation Renaissance" coming? Hell, that police chief back in Ba Sing Se was told about it, knew it was a Bad Thing, and he decided to sit on the information.

Well, I guess the ultimate example of Vathara's sparkly-vampire love for the Fire Nation will be how she handles the aftermath of the Comet; The Fire Nation is about to attempt to kill the entire damned planet. And Zuko spent months chasing down the only person who could stop it, months more refusing to assist the only person that could stop it, sabotaged an attempt to stop it...

Justifying the independent operation of the son of its instigator when he did all that he could to avoid dealing with it will be interesting.

Kalaong, Zuko set up a neutral buffer zone between the Earth Kingdom (Ba Sing Se) and the Northern Air Temple for the sake of those who want to just be themselves (be it Fire Nation refugee, discontented Earth Kingdom citizen, or even lower ring Water Tribe members). He may not be helping Aang (however indirect it is, and how well he denies it), and it definitely doesn't help the Fire Lord, but you can't deny that he's doing something worthy of honor.

The aftermath of the Comet should be fun. I want to see how Aang handles matters with the hidden Air peoples about. If he thought the ways of the Fire Nation were different, then the independent clans and tribes of Air Nomads should throw him in for a loop.

And on that note, where is Ozai thus most likely to start his Alpha Strike on the entire world? That's right. The personal fief of the son he's been trying to kill for years.

Zuko's really going to regret holding out so long...

In canon, Fire Lord Ozai wanted to set the entire Earth Kingdom in flames. Dragons' Wings is just being set up. Why would Ozai channel his energies on some refugee campout? We don't even know if he even knows about it.

A better focus for Ozai would be Ba Sing Se, the capital of the Earth Kingdom. Azula once held it, but now that she's disappeared, and no Earth King in sight to claim it, the Fire Lord can easily do what none of his family members have been able to do - destroy the Impenetrable City.

cetraskies: Hmmm... I'm going to have to say I think Vathara's going in the direction of Zuko's domain as one of several targets up north. Reasons:

Things MIGHT have gone differently enough (Zuko not there, Azula being distanced from her father, Azula working on plans for evcuation and being away form the capital for that surpise assualt on Aang) that Azula did not have a chance to attend the war meeting wherein the Fire Lord goes on a genicidal planning spree. But there do seem to be strong indications that Azula, if she were to suggest an attempt to wipe out a people, would be going after the Water Tribes rather than Earth Kingdom.

1)Although Azula lies to Ty Lee at least once in this conversation, she displays a prejudice towards the Water Tribes she does not show toward Air (Onmitsu) or Earth (Dai Lee.)"Never trust Water," Azula said emphatically. "They're loyal to their tribes, and only their tribes. If you're not Water, you're not human. Not to them." She references school lessons for this, though, and it likely agrees with what she had been taught about the Water Tribes.

2) "But perception had almost as much to do with power as reality. Just look at those idiots at the North Pole. They perceived that they'd defeated the Fire Nation, so they'd been willing to weaken their own defenses by sending waterbenders south; probably to aid the remnants of the Southern Water Tribe, given the navy's sightings of them. They see the Avatar's victory as their victory, and his power as their power. Come summer, she intended to make that a last, fatal mistake."

3)In an even later chapter: "Then all we'd have to do is make sure we have all the Southern waterbenders in our custody. So we can raise their children... and the next Avatar."

4) Most tellingly, chapter 76 opens with Azula "going over a map of the northern half of the world yet another time."

It is possible Azula has not attended the all-important war meeting in this verse, and does not know the exact plans. However, this being Azula, she is at least likely to have a very good idea. This may have been part of what Zuko was getting at in the letter:

"And if I know you, you know all Father's plans, too. Which means you're going to have to be clever. The most clever you've ever been. This is a spirit-tangle like you wouldn't believe... or maybe you would, now. If you know Father's intent, you can't tell the spirits you didn't." The Zuko Vathara's constructed has no business not knowing Ozai's going to do something very nasty with that Comet.

Ozai is certainly INSANE ENOUGH to char Ba Sing Se to a crisp, but so many of his troops are currently occupying the city. I'm not saying it can't happen- Ozai has no loyalty to his people at all- but it might weaken his power in other areas, even if he pulled the troops out first in order to melt the city to ashes.

Ozai is also talking to Makoto. Ozai really seems to HATE Zuko. Just that wouldn't be neough on its own, no- but Zuko stole Asagitatsu out from under Makoto. She's likely to have a grudge for everyone living there, and she seems to have had plans for that volcano being under her control.

Kalaong: While I think you might be a little hard on Zuko for the early Season 1 stuff (I feel like one of the main characteristics and best points of both canonZuko and Embers Zuko is that he is a person capable of great change), I agree that he should be freaking out about the Comet a little more. Zuko IS a little too centered on his domain. I think part of this is that a) the world is very big b) his domain is full of the first actual group of people he can EVER recall being on "his" side, and it must be kind of tempting to only focus on protecting them c)trying to help the fire nation for so many years -albiet in a terribly misguided fashion- didn't work out so well for him. he still wants to help out, but he's not much of an idealist any more. (Example: he's actually ENCOURAGING a civil war that will kill many of his people becuase he thinks it's better than the alternative.) d) he cannot equate "helping Aang, the Avatar" with "Saving the World" inside his head. If he is happening to do both when he looks for Shiyu, he seems to regard this as a tragic accident of circumstance, that in this one particular instance he has to do the former in order to achieve the latter. Part of this is instictively being brought up to hate/fear the avatar, which he seems to have mostly got over. Part of this is whatever his extrememly messed up emotions are doing to his perception of Aang. (I think there is definitely some backlash from Kuzon expecting A Ang to be a friend and being disaapointed, and Zuko depserately not wanting to be Kuzon. Some jealousy that Aang apparently had some sort of childhood is also giving Zuko blinkers on how bad things are for Aang right NOW.)

Some of Embers does almost address this. I think it's especially telling (actually, I find it a bit creepy) that Amaya seems a little taken aback whenever Iroh expects "too much" of Zuko. She's told him about that spirit wound about five million times now, and I'm not sure its sinking in that for a couple of years Zuko does not actually seem to have been what she would define as sane, seeing as he "had years of drought." When the definitions of dark dragons are dragons without water. Like I said, a little creepy. But looking at the differences between hism an Uncle (how they treat individauls and small groups around them Vs. how they treat the world) is a really interesting comparision. Zuko is very tribe-focused. Personal loyalties, rather than causes. This makes kind of an interesitng dynamic between the two of them. (I think Embers Zuko would have made an utterly horrible Fire Lord for example. Torn apart in too many directions, and never happy.)

I agree that it will be interesting to see what happens with the Fire Nation once it is ordered into a second genocide. According to her accounts of the last one, there should be loyalty-breaking firebenders dropping like flies. I kind of want to see this tragedy happen. I'm looking forward to something that manages to grieve for those who die for refusing, while managing to apporopriately deal with all the idiot bigots manning those air ships. (As in, don't limit it to humanizing them with birthdays jokes as they are dropped in the water on thier way to massacre civillians, as canon did. Awesome as canon was, I would have rather we saw a close-up of the workers on the Drill or even the North Pole than the fluffy side of those in airships burning down a continent. Although I suppose that is a kind of message in itself...)

Nice reasoning, donahermurphyabc.

Indeed, with Makoto whispering in Ozai's ear, he could go after Dragons' Wings. I can't imagine she loves having her old clan home stolen by her whelp of a great-grandson, the unfavorite, at that. And Ozai's just always looking for any opportunity to off his failure of a son.

But the Water Tribes, too? Do you think Ozai would go for that? If Azula's prejudice is that telling, how much more does Ozai consider them? Sure, Makoto may have been thrown into the ocean by Katara, but she didn't seem all too unhappy about that. Makoto may hate the Avatar and almost everything in sight, but she hates Air the most. The plans that Azula made may or may not have been taken into account by Ozai and Makoto, if Azula ever did have a stake in taking out the Water Tribes. I'm not so sure if Ozai even thinks of the Water Tribes as worthy of his attention, when his wonderful great-grandmother can easily just send her own army of water-spirits to deal with the Water Tribes. Not to mention that Makoto and Ozai have different agendas overall. Ozai wants to take over the world; Makoto wants everything destroyed - all humans. Both think they have the upper hand on the other, but I'm sure we all know that Koh has all the cards.

cetraskies: Yeah, the problem with Ozai is that he's so crazy I don't know what he'll do. He might want to take over the world, but he doesn't seem concerned about how much of a world might be left to take. I mean, I can even see him burning his own colonies to the ground becuase they're "tainted." He's that nutso. (Not my personal prediction, but the fact that it's even plausible says a lot about the guy.)Good point on "Worthy of his attention"- most of his decisions do seem to be based on his ego.

It really does depend on Koh, doesn't it? He is likely to have grudges against both Dragons Wings AND the Earth King now, after the Wan Shi Tong incident. And the North Pole still holds the Moon and Ocean spirits in a pond not protected form above- what happens to the world if they're crispified? Koh's even harder to predict than Ozai.

And the really creepy part is that apparently Zuko's ONE "blessing" is that Koh can't factor him in. (If everyone else is part of the web Koh weaves, he's the part of the web that is on fire. Or, more accurately, the fire jumping to different parts of the web. He's kind of like a spanner in the works.) ...Which implies Koh is factoring EVERYONE ELSE in REALLY WELL. Kind of scary.

...Gotta wonder if Koh's ultimate goal is revenge on humans/dragons or getting the avatar spirit back. It's implied the former, but could he be persuaded to the latter? I don't really love the implications of that. Although it would actually be a fascinating idea for another fic- what if there was a problem that needed to be fixed like this, and Aang actually found a way to deliberately sacrifice being the Avatar and went back to being an airbending kid? The team dynamics afterward would be fascinating, but I'd be so sad for Aang. The world also kind of really needs that peaceful message by someone in a position of power (although he might hang onto some sway even if his bending was affected.)

I don't think that's where Embers is going. (At the very least, it would very very badly mess up the dynamics between Aang and Zuko if Zuko could only like Aang when he wasn't the Avatar, for one thing, and be a massive Unfortunate Implication.)Still, I'm interested to see how Aang will fix this mess with Koh. According to a lot of people, he's the only one that can. As foolish as he can sometimes be, it's hardly Aang's fault that he's only tweleve. I think Zuko will come to recognize that Aang has the makings of a pretty awesome Avatar... eventually. (It will probably mark the end of the fic. :) )

That's why I mentioned Ba Sing Se as a prime example of a target. Ozai doesn't seem to be content with a few colonies and camp refugees to satiate his need for world dominance - he's the type for grand displays showing off his power. While Azula is (was) his favored heir, who knows whether or not he pays any heed to taking out the Water Tribe savages. Makoto may have a hand in harassing the Water Tribes, but I don't think Ozai thinks too much of them to care. Dragons' Wings may be on his hit list, but what number are they? Not to forget Byakko and Shidan's treachery, which I know Makoto cares about more than her grandson. There are priorities that the Fire Lord has that have yet to be sorted out. I wonder if he knows by now that Azula has defected...

I can see Koh seeing two things as one and the same. Taking back his parental-figure from the hands of those backstabbing, filthy, treacherous humans is nothing more than its due. If Koh has to rip the Avatar Spirit from Aang's earthly body, then so be it. If Koh has to lure Aang to kill him just to do it, so be it. Of course, Aang isn't entirely down with that, so you and I can speculate further on the complications of it all. An interesting idea, donahermurphyabc, but I doubt that the story will take such a downturn. I can imagine the author making something of a one-shot AU.

Zuko is Agni's blue knife. If Koh hates the Earth King for throwing off Makoto's plans, I wonder just what kind of tool Guanyin considers him. If the Goddess of Compassion and Mercy considers her champion to be a tool, that is. She was human...a long time ago. Aang currently is the vessel for the Avatar Spirit, so yeah, he's the only one who can really negotiate with Koh.

donahermurphyabc- Azula isn't prejudiced against the Water Tribes, she's just psycho. The stuff that (sane) Water values she's conditioned and inclined to utterly reject. Sort of like how Aang makes Toph tear her hair out, but with more insanity and pride.

Vathara has pointed out a couple of times how very big Ba Sing Se is— the Firelord is crazy, but not stupid. He'll aim for massive devastation where you can't limit it by thinking "Oh, he burnt the whole city and about half of the stuff inside of the wall!" (Something that bugged me in the actual show— why on earth was he attacking an uninhabited area? It's a matter of carpet bombing the middle of nowhere. Yeah, kid's show and all, but... I'd expect something more along the lines of blimps as far as the eye can see, rolling right over the top of the biggest group of Earth Kingdom army they can find.

I can't see targeting Zuko's domain, simply because that would mean his ally would have to admit she lost it; attacking Shidan's home would also be nonsensical, since it would just destroy Fire's lands.

Foxfier: Maybe it could be both. Azula could be both a little prejudiced (she did receive a Fire Nation education, so she might at least see the Water Tribes as barbarians) AND a psycho (your point about the influence of her spirit missing a lot of water is awesome. And possibly the lack of appreciation for what Water traditionally values also prevents her from using her intelligence to look beyond the flawed teachings of the Fire Nation's "greatness" over Water, specifically.)

I was looking at a map of the Avatar World, and now I'm not so sure Zuko is going to wind up where Azula is. Unless the island she's staying on is creepily close to the Western Air Temple, like that big island directly to the west.

If the current goes SW he might hit the Boiling Rock- there's not much else south of him for a WHILE.

Straight south is nothing until Ember Island, and that's twice the distance Zuko was complaining about when he went on Appa to visit the Sun Warrior in canon. Floating in water? I'm not sure how accurate the map's distances are, but straight south to Ember Island looks about half the distance of the trip that took Zuko and Iroh three weeks on a raft.

Now, Boiling Rock looks about half THAT- so maybe five days to reach Boiling Rock, ten for Ember Island? (But once he hits FN Waters there's islands galore, it would just take him about ten days to get there. Actually, the length of his trip honestly depends on the currents; I doubt they're the same as up North.

If he still goes SW, but more west than south, he ends up on one of the air islands. (Maybe hours? Maybe way more. It totally depends.)

Zuko could also be washed up onto the Earth Kingdom if he goes east at ALL- he's actually really close to that resort where he washed up with Uncle Iroh. (Well, if he heads SE instead of SW, it looks a little less than the distance to Boiling Rock.

Of course, this should all be taken with an extra grain of salt, as the Western Domain of Byakko doesn't seem to exist at all in the Avatar World- the Westernmost domain there seems to be the island that holds the capital. So it could be that Embers AU just has an extra, very large island to the west that does not appear on canon maps and nothing else is different. The map of the world does cut off JUST to the west of the Island holding Azulon'sGates/Caldera City, so theoretically they just didn't bother to fit that domain in on most of the maps. (Now I am struck by an image of Kuzon going through and destroying all the Earth Kingdom maps he found that DID accurately portray his domain. Not his style, but kind of funny to picture.)

NOTE: This is totally based of the time it took for Iroh and Zuko to travel by raft from the Northern Water Tribe Capital to the Fire Nation village Resort they landed at three weeks later(by the Su Oku River, according to Avatar Wiki and maps.) I have both locations marked on my map. I'm not accounting for wind or current or the fact that they had a raft that time or Zuko's new waterbending abilities or anything, just halving the time when I halve the distance, etc. So these are VERY ROUGH estimates, but hopefully they're a little bit helpful. The main point is that it would probably take something special (read: the spirits totally interfering in a really annoying fashion with a storm, odd current, etc.) to get Zuko into the FN within something less than four days or so. (I'm actually kind of hoping he doesn't go to far and we get to see him reunite with the Gaang soon, after they get to all get to angst a bit. Hopefully within the next chapter- fingers crossed!)

...And now I have just seen a different map where the village resort they were staying at is a totalyl different location even farther SW from the Western Air Temple AND the North Pole. Maybe it's time to just admit Zuko's going to end up wherever the spirits want him to, and to heck with science and currents and distance and stuff.

Have just realized the problem with Shiyu training a bender with an Avatar's level of power: TINGZHE: "So you're the spotter?" "Don't train a firebender without one," Sergeant Kyo nodded. "Lee did," Tingzhe observed. Kyo gave him a serious look. "He have a choice in the matter?" "No," Tingzhe admitted, absently carving off a slice of stone to crush into sand. "And he always made certain there was someone else with him. And a sand-bucket." "Lousy setup if you've got other options. Otherwise - not bad." ...Poor, poor Zuko. Although he might feel better about it if he only sticks around long enough to make sure Shiyu gives Aang has enough of the basics that he's not about to accidentally blast Toph.

A spotter, huh? Well, since you mentioned it, donahermurphyabc...

I don't think Sokka will resist rescuing his father, Tao, Suki and Chi Tsang. Sokka being Sokka, he'll try to bust out those he deems as important as Aang's firebending teacher. I'm sure Zuko will mention it to Sokka that Aang will need another firebender to help assist Shiyu, anyways.

Hehehehe...

Great chapter. I did not love Iroh particularly this chapter. He doesn't seem to realize that he's pushing his nephew further and further away from him. One day, Iroh just may realize that Zuko doesn't trust him any more. Not that he wouldn't deserve it.

Finally. We hear about the Southern waterbenders that Hama never bothered to help escape. Hopefully, Sokka will respect and care enough to promise Zuko that he WILL bring him back to Dragons' Wings at all speed, without any of his groupmates stupid little sidequests and whatnot. Toph should understand that too, and severely discipline Aang for not telling her what he should have. If she doesn't, well, I'll hope that the next time she sees her parents, they slap her. That, and then some.

Please, please, Vathara, do NOT go route canon and do The Southern Raiders and The Ember Island Players. Let's do the AU thing and keep going!

Katara has been under constant pressure and ever since Hama, she hasn't gotten any better. Aang doesn't understand what she really needs at this point, Toph has an inkling but she can't do anything about it, but Sokka...he's getting it. I think it'll come to the point where once Shiyu comes into their fold, and they drop Zuko off so he doesn't have to hold the G Aang's hands anymore (that should make Katara happy), that the Water Tribe siblings can really reconnect and bond again and that will really help Katara heal. Sokka's her big brother, and he has her best interests at heart. He will love her no matter what decision she makes, and will brave the storm she will. If the Southern Raiders does happen, I hope that the author has Sokka go with Katara to seek Yon Rha. I'd love to see that.

blackflamerose, I never thought about how the Southern waterbenders at Lake Lituya would think about Katara. Depending on if they meet, if they can sniff Hama's stench on Katara, if the G Aang ever goes there...on one hand, they can very well revile her if she happens to bloodbend like Hama, OR they can idolize her for taking down Yon Rha, the one who went to the South Pole to capture waterbenders. Hopefully the latter will be likely.

I'm glad we got to see Azula and her group this chapter. Poor Azula. Then again, not really. She got what came to her. Ozai used her then decided to get rid of her once she interfered in his plans. Just like Zuko. Ty Lee...wow. Finally, someone said what I've been saying before. Only the enemy can teach you what you do not know, where your friends will not. However, she misunderstands Zuko. Which is perfectly understandable, given their distance and circumstances.

I hope that Aang and Ty Lee actually get to meet, face to face. More than anything, I want to see what the Earth King and his group are up to right now.

Oh yes, Sokka. Aang's enemies arent' all alive, but the ones that are may just end up being his own people. Besides Ty Lee and the onmitsu, there are others that have yet to weigh the Avatar against their own lives, if they haven't judged so.

I'm still wondering what justification Vathara will come up with for Azulon/Ozai not just having every imprisoned waterbender killed. Transporting hydrokinetics by sea is just begging for a jailbreak.

And honestly? Is Vathara going to force-feed revenge to Katara with a rubber hose and a hand pump by stating that Yon Rha wasn't following orders when he murdered Kya? And have everyone cheering at Katara to rip someone in half in front of Aang's eyes just because Vathara wants to teach him that his would-be girlfriend isn't as nice as he thinks she is?

That's like re-writing Yoda as a Sith mole. The Fire Nation kills threats to their authority, and they already knew that imprisoned waterbenders can learn bloodbending. But they demanded mercy for The(false) Last Southern Waterbender just so her daughter could ruin herself with cold-blooded revenge...

Actually, with all the spirit-assistance the Fire Nation gets? Maybe they planned exactly that. Aang? Maybe you should just give up and let Koh have the entire fscking planet.

Kalaong, what makes you think that everyone will be cheering at Katara to get revenge? Aang has never approved of it and has tried and will definitely try again, however ineffective, at telling her that revenge is wrong; Toph knows but is shrewd enough not to push or pull her; Sokka knows and understands - after all, Kya is his mother too.

And hey, why shouldn't Sokka get a say in this matter at all? Is he not important enough to have his own opinion on the matter, never mind he's never told her to take revenge for their mother, although he certainly feels that Yon Rha ought to get his comeuppance? Sokka understands Katara like Aang does not. What the G Aang needs right now is a separate corner each to think and reflect on themselves, where Sokka and Katara can bond again, where Toph can finally unleash her true power against an equal (though I'm not sure Aang sees her as that), and Aang can work on his international diplomacy/real-politicking skills.

Uh, Kalaong, it's already been established in the fic that Yon Rha went MASSIVELY off script when he killed Kya. That's why Zuko was able to send her the vendetta papers. It's as good of an explanation as we're ever gonna get, since canon never elaborated as to why the FN suddenly went from capturing to killing waterbenders.

Honestly, if The Southern Raiders gets incorporated at all, I hope Sokka goes along, too. Losing Kya was the biggest factor in shaping Katara, but Sokka was older, and he lost his mom, too. As far as the captured waterbenders went, I'd thought that during the chaos of Hama's breakout, the other prisoners took advantage and bolted. At least, that was the implication in the last chapter.

Off that topic. cetraskies, that would be why I'm a bit freaked by the implications of the Gaang meeting the Lake Lituya waterbenders at this point. Given where everyone's at now, Lady Karasu and others could legitimately come up with a case for shoving Katara off a mountain, which, horrifying(I couldn't think of what these waterbenders in Byakko could use for dealing with those without names, but then I remembered the mountains. Big rock icebergs, anyone?). Although, how in the world they were able to pull the wool over the Fire Nation's eyes for so long baffles me a bit. I guess marrying Ursa to Ozai had a lot more purpose.

I also think that having everyone else have some reflective time while Sokka/Zuko busts out Shiyu would be good for everyone. Heck, Katara seems to be coming around, JUST a little, even though her mental state is not the best at present. I'd hope, though, that she sorts it out soon, I hate that there's so many things that the Gaang simply CANNOT tell her because they don't know what she'll do with it(Sokka's explanation as to why Zuko can't mention he's a yaoren yet broke my heart).

And yes, I like that Zuko's pedestal for Iroh may be breaking, just a bit. If he's ever going to be the great name Dragons' Wings needs, he has to be able to make the decisions HE feels are best, otherwise he'd turn into a puppet for others with more manipulation skill.

Not only did Yon Rha disobey his orders, he's also a pathetic individual, and a coward at heart. No wonder the Fire Nation military decided to cast him off on dishonorable discharge, er, whatever the Fire Nation calls it. Which is why he lives alone with his equally odious mother rather than given something like a big, nice fancy house like Mai's father nearer to the Caldera.

To tell the truth, blackflamerose, I have an itchy feeling that the author may just decide to torture Zuko by having him go on with the G Aang on their little misadventures, since they'd rather play than work. The Southern Raiders is way too tempting not to do, and the Boiling Rock is as good as going to happen anyways. Oh, what am I taking about, poor Sokka. Really, when Sokka and Zuko bust Shiyu out, Sokka should be grateful enough for all the G Aang enough to take Zuko back to Dragons' Wings with all the speed that Appa can go. If Sokka understood anything about Zuko yet, then he should know that leaving Dragons' Wings without its leader will only make things worst for himself as well as Aang. Best to get this mission done and over with. Shiyu will teach Aang firebending, no other. No reason to keep Zuko around for any longer than that.

If Vathara can skip the Firebending Masters episode, I really hope she doesn't bother to do The Ember Island Players or The Beach. Now that certain revelations have been revealed, the G Aang doesn't have much playtime.

As for Lituya Bay, don't worry about it, blackflamerose. I don't think the G Aang will be visiting Byakko anytime soon. Sokka has already put things together enough to know that they're way too busy to go touring mysterious islands with volcanoes waiting to kill them. If the author ever gets finished with this story and makes a sequel, maybe then we'll see what lies in Lituya Bay.

When I meant reflective time, I actually was betting on The Southern Raiders. Sokka and Katara go to find Yon Rha; Aang and Shiyu (hopefully) will get some real firebending training down. Toph and Boots can walk a little while to think about all that's happened, as well as talk with Aang about just why revenge is a part of the three Nations, even if Toph herself may not believe in it. They all need time away from each other. It's disgusting how much Toph has had to soften her usual blunt self just to make her friends feel better. Having Sokka around helps, but really, they all NEED her to be herself, which is tough, unyielding and direct (about the truth).

I sincerely wish that Iroh will get his comeuppance soon. I don't care if Amaya is pregnant - I hope she sentences him to the couch for all the crap he's put her student through. White Lotus or no, he can't undermine Lee or even herself just like that when it suits him.

Someday, I hope Ty Lee herself "honors" Aang. The boy just won't listen to the truth if it isn't said by his own people.

The Boiling Rock is set to happen. Sokka can't resist breaking out Suki and his dad as well as Shiyu. Other than that, I hope Sokka realizes just how much borrowed time he's really running on.

Katara's mom was killed when Katara was eight right? Assuming this is true Katara's mom died six years ago. It just so happens that six years ago the Firelord died and was replaced.

I don't believe in coincidences.

Ursa killed Fire Lord Azulon for making Ozai choose to off one of his offspring.

Do elaborate more, jwagne51.

Off topic and kind of late but did anyone else pick up that Amaya might be pregnant?

"Uncle has to believe that everything will come out right. That there was a purpose to everything. Even Lu Ten's death. If there wasn't - what does he have to live for?

Hopefully Amaya, now. And more than just her, soon... which he was not going to think about. The whole idea still terrified him. Not to mention, if Katara found out that Amaya was..."

If this is the case, what might the possible consequences be?

Some of us have taken note, bluesaltire.

Huh, I wasn't expecting for the author to throw something like this in.

Helping Aang find Shiyu for a firebending teacher is a good idea...however, taking them to the Boiling Rock is not. He's the Lord of Dragons' Wings - and while Iroh may be of Asagitatsu's blood, he's not as good as Zuko is at keeping her happy and not wanting to boil her enemies into ash. How can he just up and leave? That's skirting responsibility, even if it's to help the Avatar.

I don't see how Langxue and Shirong can go. There's too much of a crowd on Appa already. I wonder just how long Zuko can be away from Dragons' Wings, though. Assuming he'll just fly towards the Boiling Rock with the gAang, free Shiyu, get roped into freeing Suki, Hakoda, Tao and whoever is still in there...he'll be spending some quality time with Aang and his pals. There's no point in his staying with them until The Ember Island players episode, should the author decide to go canon-timeline wise. Zuko's people need him. Aang doesn't.

Abouting skirting responsibility; he has to make sure his people come out okay. Which means making sure that Makoto and Koh's plan fail. Which means helping the Avatar. But he probably will leave to go back to Dragons' Wings once they have Shiyu.

As for a crowd on Appa, didn't some scenes in canon show there was plenty of empty space of his saddle?

The point of Boiling Rock is to pick up Hakoda and Suki.

BTW, when is Zuko going to figure out the most basic reason he should cut Aang some slack - Kyoshi wiped out half the Fire Nation and elected the first Fire Lord in a single day just because pirates who had minimal connection to the Fire Nation killed her full-grown son - Disproportionate Retribution. Aang is an Extreme Doormat who will take all the crap Zuko can stuff down his throat, and the worst he will do is break down and cry.

Funny thing? Kyoshi may have been Earth Kingdom, but isn't attempting to kill a single person the reason the Fire Nation wiped out the Air Nomads and slaughtered their way across most of the planet, forcing fealty on pain of death on all they met? The term is Not So Different. Kyoshi might just be proud of them. "Your Approval Fills Me With Shame."

Oh, and I'm wondering if Aang himself is approaching his breaking point. Zuko's idea of recreation is to drive wedges between Aang and the one person who Vathara herself admits has been keeping him sane since day one. Uh, Zuko? If Aang commits suicide, best case, the next Avatar will be Water Tribe - with a gibbering teenage airbender whimpering in her back brain. Worst case, your dad kills the whole planet. Nice Job Breaking It Hero.

Shimmer712, I hope you're right that Zuko gets to go straight back to Dragons' Wings right AFTER they get Shiyu. Many readers already have observed about the whole absentee lord thing.

At least in this chapter, Aang accepts that the drowned is very much his responsibility. Good for Toph, too, on calling out Aang for not telling her about that itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny little problem about defeating the Fire Lord. I wonder when Toph will start being her usual self - blunt, tough, and uncompromising about the truth. Her friends need her for this.

The point of the Boiling Rock is to get Aang a firebending teacher willing to teach him, Kalaong. Hakoda and Suki and all them are just bonuses. Maybe Aang may learn something about Loyalty and possibly learn about having honor. If he hopes to ever meet the other Air peoples someday without insulting them, he must learn this.

;;long exhale;; So, brain breaking revelations all around and Appa has a new passenger. I have to say, making a quick trip to the Boiling Rock to get Shiyu is probably the best idea for this save-the-world thing at the moment. I don't think this is going to go the way the two parter did, though. Getting Shiyu out so he can teach the Avatar is definitely top priority. Busting out the Chief of the Southern Water Tribe and the leader of the Kyoshi Warriors, while a bonus,might have to wait, unless Vathara has a big idea for them that we don't know about. Although, concerning Zuko's brain-breaking revelation, I'm a little confused. Who, exactly, knew about Roku's deadline? Toph wouldn't, she wasn't there. Aang definitely would, and for some reason, I thought that either Katara, Sokka AND Zuko were all there, or they were chained up outside and weren't. A little clarification would be appreciated.

Back to the Boiling Rock. cetraskies, neither Aang nor Katara or Toph actually entered the prison, and I don't think they have any reason to now. I think Zuko may still stick with the infiltration idea with Sokka, but this time focus more on extracting Shiyu than getting Hakoda or Suki. Though, with Azula and her group rogue somewhere, I don't know what roles they'd play, if any. Since Azula's breaking point went differently here, they have no reason to go to the Rock. In fact, given Mai's connection to the Warden, it's probably the last place they'd want to go.

One last point. Shimmer712, I thought the exact same things when Katara gave that speech to Aang, and Aang retorted. If this doesn't break the pedestals for both of them, this may well be the sign that this potential relationship would be anything but healthy, for either of them. I don't think I want to be there when it hits Aang that Katara is GLAD that all those people were killed. Yes, invading army, blah blah blah. But to his value system,it wouldn't matter. This is the kid who, let's not forget, urged Katara to forgive her mother's murderer in canon. These were people who died violent deaths at his hand, something which he would find utterly abhorrent. For Katara to say that she's happy they're dead? That's probably the biggest insult to him that she could ever do. To be honest, I don't think their relationship is ever going to be the same, even if it survives this, because moral incompatibility on this level may be too much for it to take.

And that pedestal breaking could be fatal.

If Katara is really the bloodthirsty barbarian Vathara is implying she is, Aang is completely, utterly alone. Temul stole Sokka. Toph wanted to ditch him. Zuko hates his guts so much that the only reason he's helping at all is because he's just realized that his father is as crazy as another character with the same voice actor.

As Vathara has ret-conned it, Aang is pretty much the only person on the planet who doesn't want half of its population dead. How does she intend to keep her lovingly ret-conned world from collapsing in a wave of vengeance-crazed bloodlust without a superbeing who doesn't believe in vengeance?

And if Katara really is a scalp-crazy maniac, when is Vathara going to ret-con the numerous incidents where Katara proved herself to be Aang's equal in compassion and empathy? Hell, why did she even bother to keep "The Painted Lady", since it had bloodthirsty!Katara risk her life to help Fire Nationals?

Come to think of it, I'm downright mad that she got rid of "The Headband" AKA Footloose Avatar-style - not only because she Ret Goned the Kataango, but because she somehow has a Magical Proud Warrior Nation that doesn't suffer culturally despite the historical facts that A)wars require propaganda and B) eternal warfare fscks up everything joyful about your culture.

Because in the Painted Lady she was helping women and children who, according to water tribe morals, are non-combatants. The soldiers and the North Pole were, as far as she knew, men and therefore fair game.

And Aang was always alone even if Canon didn't show it, Katara and Sokka are from a hunting culture where killing to survive is the rule not the exception, Toph is from what appears to be a culture with a strong aristocracy. Aang comes from a culture of nomadic vegetarians whose leaders are picked seemingly based on their age. Seriously it's a wonder that didn't kill each other.

;;headtilt;; I never got the idea that Aang's sense of self was so fragile that one wrong move from The Kid With The Leash would trigger a Superpower Meltdown or suicide, in canon OR here. Frankly, if Aang's sanity depends THAT MUCH on his "Saint Katara" not being tarnished and/or on being as coddled as he's been up til now, we've got the second coming of Kesuk, here. Moreover, what does that do to Katara, if, knowing this, she feels obligated to return his feelings? Does that really strike you as being even remotely healthy, or considerate of Katara's own autonomy? Sure, it fits her character and even her characterization here, but everything that grates readers about her in this is a direct result of this same treatment by her tribe, where she as a person is MUCH less important than the role she plays for another party. Everyone else's needs come before her own, and she can never show weakness. Granted, most of that treatment is unintentional, but the effects are the same. She's turned into an object or ideal, to her and everyone else's detriment.

Honestly, this is probably the biggest reason I could never get into Kataang in canon. It always seemed that the relationship would always be all about Aang, on both sides. He needs support, she gives it to him. She needs support, he lectures her as to why he's right, and her feelings are not valid; and she happily accepts this, after rebelling against his view in "The Southern Raiders". He forces affection on her even after she expresses confusion about her feelings, IN CANON. She is all give, he is all take, and it seems to me that canon portrays this as a soulmate type situation. I just could never buy it.

Katara has a massive dark side, even in canon, but Aang never could face it; instead, he judged her for not being the perfect "Saint Katara". Vathara still highlights her compassion and empathy, but actually deals with the dark side that canon could only hint about. What I really think she needs, and what Vathara has made sure to give her, are people who value her for herself (Toph, Sokka once he caught on, Hakoda once he caught a clue; bound though he is by his duty as chief). I just don't think that Aang, in canon or here, can give that to her; and if the fate of the world rests on suborning a girl to her superpowered suitor, well, the results aren't going to be nice. Or pretty.

Except that prior to his blind flight in the first episode of Season 3, his sense of self was eroding at steady rate. And in Embers, he never got his head back on straight because Zuko was right there when he woke up to start calling him a useless brat who should have stayed in the iceberg for a few more centuries.

And though my favorite examination of their relationship is lost on the interwebz at the moment, I have an earlier post that I can fall back on;

Aang, rather than basking in Katara's "rager's rescue praise" or whatever, was the one to pull her out of her shell of being forced to grow up too soon, encouraging her to enjoy rather than endure her life. And Katara, rather than encouraging Aang's immaturity, is the one who repeatedly encourages him to step up and take action. Without Aang, Katara might have lost herself to despair months ago, and without Katara, Aang would still be as immature as when he first came out of the iceberg - if he didn't get himself caught.

There's the heart of it; most of the time, Aang takes his cues from Katara. And he keeps her from going as grimdark as Zuko.

And the "killing is wrong" thing? If you really think that the world needs more killing in it, go read The Witcher or watch Twenty Four. The Avatar-verse has been a slaughterhouse for a hundred years. It. Has. To. Stop. And Aang is pretty much the only person who instinctively believes that.

Also, why do you think Vathara Ret Goned "The Headband" AKA Footloose? That episode needed to be there to show exactly what the Fire Nation has lost to their war - the parts of their civilization that weren't dedicated to it.

@Kalaong

"The Headband" Is the one where Aang goes to Fire Nation School, right?

The following parts are in Chapter 49:

Toph tried not to smirk. Aang's excursion into a Fire Nation school had been nerve-wracking for everybody.

Add that to this earlier part:

"Great! Both gone!" Scrubbing at his eyes, stumbling in what must still be dark, Sokka snarled at the camp in general. "I tell Aang not to sneak off anymore, and what happens? Katara starts sneaking off."

I think we just read "The Headband" from Toph's perspective.

Hmm. How so? The only time I could really see the Sanity Slippage was Aang's Anakin moment in "The Desert". During the stretch from then til "Lake Laogai", I saw a supremely stressed out pre-teen who had lost one of the only things familiar from his old life (from that perspective, the stress is understandable). And even then, there were moments of levity and silliness. Aang's section of "Tales of Ba Sing Se" anyone? It wasn't exactly to the levels of some of the season 1 episodes, but it wasn't Dragon Age levels of darkness or deterioration. I certainly never saw someone one rejection away from a Witch Hunter Robin-esque rampage.

I would love to read that post you linked to, but it appears the earlier post suffered the fate of its sibling; "The URL you requested could not be found." Unless that IS the first page mentioned, I'm not exactly sure.

I would normally completely agree with you that enjoying life and relaxing every so often is a good thing, and probably one of the only things keeping people going when the world is literally falling apart around them; except this is the group saddled with the duty of saving the world. When one has a cosmic deadline, like "end the war or there will be nothing left", "protect/destroy the Key before Glory can use it to destroy all of space-time", "toss the One Ring into the volcano before the Nazgul get you" or "wage guerrilla warfare against the parasitic slugs and hope The Cavalry gets here soon", sometimes there is no time for levity or silliness or grief. It's completely awful when kids are forced into these roles (and I believe that the oldest mental age of the mortal examples I just mentioned is about 20 or so, the youngest is about 13 or so), and any time Child Soldiers get to be kids is invariably precious. However, sometimes, the task just does not allow these to happen without distracting from the goal, Animorphs and Buffy The Vampire Slayer especially. That's something where I think the fact that At LA was a kids' show hampered the creators a bit. As soon as they found out about the deadline(and I'm still not entirely sure how many of them were there), they should have knuckled down and gotten straight to business, red-eyeing to the North Pole if they had to, instead of side questing every chance they had(for instance, going to the Fortuneteller's village, while doing some good stopping the volcano, was a complete waste of time goal wise). With regards to Aang's maturity, I will grant you that Katara does help him step up and take action, but the series as a whole is Aang's Comingof Age Story, it's not completely dependent on one person.

I have to admit I'm not sure if you're addressing True Metis or Vathara or me with the last paragraph, and I agree that this war has gone on for far too long. That said, I don't think that Aang is the only one who believes that it needs to end. He might be the only one who thinks everyone can just drop their weapons and be friends, when it is not that easy. War never is. Especially one that has gone on for this long.

ETA: @jwagne: Yes, that's the one.

There's a little thing called PTSD - that Zuko's entire family appears to have been born with. The only reason the Gaang is as vaguely sane as they are is because Aang keeps dragging them off to have breathers when things get tense.

As for peace? Everyone else believes it can only end by smashing their enemies to paste. Aang, Idiot Hero that he is, keeps on trying to talk people down. He's idealistic to the point of idiocy, but nobody else is even trying. Everyone else is pursuing their vendettas and nobody wants to just stop. Except Aang.

Even the spirits want to just chew the whole world to bits for things that happened thousands of years ago. Even Zuko's answer is just a return to the old clan wars that sheltered the waegu and killed Kyoshi's son and let the Earth King manipulate her anger. Zuko's even trying to drag Katara into the cycle of revenge!

Aang just needs to lose one tiny sliver of innocence - the part that believes that it can ever be perfectly peaceful - Xiangchen's folly. In short, he needs to reach the Kirk "A Taste Of Armageddon" Epiphany.

“It’s instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We’re human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands. But we can stop it. We can admit that we’re killers… but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today!”

And the thing is, Aang is the only person who is within a step of figuring that out. Even his "allies" expect him to go semi-Kyoshi and summarily execute enemies - the ones they think deserve to die, of course. Aang is the only one looking vaguely in the general direction of the answer.

Yay! Keep up the discussion, everyone.

blackroseflame: I never implied that Aang, Katara or Toph would go with Zuko and Sokka to get Shiyu out. It is very possible that in this AU, they may come, but it makes better sense for there to be fewer people to go into an isolated prison to get someone, particularly, a high-profile prisoner like Shiyu, out of there.

True Metis, you make an excellent point about the Air Monk's culture. Seriously, choosing leaders based on age? However, I doubt that they used age as the sole factor when determining whether one could become an "Elder".

I seriously hope the author isn't having Zuko in the Fire Nation for "The Southern Raiders" and "The Ember Island Players". Zuko must go back to Dragons' Wings and tend to Asagitatsu and his people, not hang around the gAang just to help them and watch a stupid play.

I think Azula, Mai and Ty Lee may be in Ember Island, hiding out there. What do you think?

As for the whole killing thing, come on now, we all know Aang's heart is in the right place. However, he has not yet learned that it's not so much the act of killing that's evil, but the intent behind it. Remember what Sokka said about hunting and Azula. Hunting is about RESPECT. Learning about your prey, understanding them - these things matter, so the hunter can bring food to his family and help keep them alive.

This is why I think Aang should meet Eshe soon. Since Aang won't have it from anyone else but an airbender, Eshe will tell him the unvarnished truth without coddling him or yelling at him. Striking a balance is delicate, but being raised as she was, she'd be able to make her point across fairly quickly.

Found that Kataang piece!

...Though it focuses more on the pacing than the reasons. Damn. The weird thing is that the reason Vathara is against Kataang is actually the reason it works: in Chapter 30, she goes on a rant I'll repost here;

~~~~

...Ragers can learn to find the root of their problems, and move past it. But it takes hard work, self-examination, and admitting a little brat inside you wants something it can never have. Katara can break out of this - if she listens, really listens to her family and friends, and realizes that she wants, desperately, for someone to make things right. To rescue the little girl who lost her mother, and grew up too soon.

Except in canon the creators hooked her up with Aang, who wants to be mothered and have excuses to be irresponsible...

~~~~

The thing is, as time passes, Aang spends less time trying to "rescue" Katara and more time encouraging her to rescue herself. And as time passes, Katara spends less time "mothering" Aang and more time encouraging him to grow up and be responsible. They're both broken, but they help each other heal. Reminds me of how Fei and Elly develop in Xenogears: they start out licking each other's wounds, and end up making each other stronger people.

Vathara's ignoring the way their characters develop. Canonically, they're not this damned stupid come late Season Three!

Kalaong, See the thing about war, especially the real bad ones is that smashing the enemy to paste is the way to end it. I mean that's exactly what we did with Nazi Germany. The German state after WW 2 was torn apart and ceased to exist for several decades. Then decades were spent re-building it and turning into what it is today. That was the best option for the world post WW 2, and something similar has to be done for the Fire Nation.

Zuko's answer can work. The only reason it went wrong originally was ignorance about the differences between cultures. Which is a common enough issue in real life.

cetraskies, Ya I doubt that as well unfortunately we don't get much detail on what gets you on the elder council thing. My guess some combination of how quickly you gained mastery, how fast your students gained mastery and how many students you've taken. I can't think of any other metrics because spiritual enlightenment doesn't exactly measure well.

Kalaong, Fei and Elly were destined lovers from time immemorial. Those genetic memories kick in in the middle of the game, although Fei and Elly have already been developing their feelings for each other all the while. Elly doesn't mother Fei - she calls him a coward after they meet.

Aang and Katara are both children and tend to see each other through rose-colored lenses. When faced with a person's dark side, Aang refuses to believe it's true. Just like the time after Hama, Aang didn't want to believe that Katara could ever believe that killing anyone is justified. Even now, he refuses to acknowledge this, which is denying Katara an important part of herself. Katara thinks that Aang as the Avatar has every right to kill - when Aang thinks that killing is wrong, and told her he's not going to do it. It upsets her whenever the Avatar (Aang or Kyoshi or Roku) does something wrong and tries to dismiss it when Aang very much needs to be opposed and given other options than just one holy order. She excuses him for his disaster with the drowned when he needed to be given stern discipline. Not a healthy relationship, this one.

True Metis, the thing about the Hundred-Year War in Avatar is that everyone fighting it wants to utterly annihilate the other side, ideologically if not literally. Despite the crimes of Nazi Germany, the Allies didn't butcher the entire country. There were trials and executions, not ongoing lynch mobs. Except that in Avatar - especially Vathara's Avatar - Aang is in the minority in not wanting to butcher the Fire Nation. That's what I'm talking about when it comes to peacemaking and not wanting to kill.

And now you're talking abut stuff that Vathara has added simply to "prove" that characters are not undergoing the character development of the show. Just trying to lie to the others in "Bato of the Water Tribe" about holding onto a note ripped Aang apart like swallowing razor blades. He practically had a nervous breakdown when he accidentally burned Katara's hands in "The Deserter". Both back in season one. And in "The Southern Raiders", he does acknowledge that Katara wants to kill someone - he just keeps clumsily trying to convince her that vengeance will destroy her. And on Katara's side, she understands what it means for someone as peaceful as Aang to kill - and it tears her up just as bad to see Aang forced to choose. How can they demonstrate a healthy relationship when actions they are taking without their control are specifically designed to vilify them both?

Aang should be all but comatose after almost accidentally feeding Dragon's Wings to zombies. Katara should have come down on Aang for these shortsighted mistakes long ago. Neither has happened because Vathara has not written it to happen. So until she gets over her love for sparkly-vampire Zuko, I'm just following the worldbuilding and assuming that Aang and Katara were kidnapped by Skrulls in The Time Before Vathara.

Hell, I just realize what her writing style reminds me of - Larry Niven - excellent worldbuilding, shitty characterization. And I'm a fan of Larry Niven - It's just that Niven does whatever he can to not write what he's not good at. And Vathara acknowledges that her skill in writing characters is limited to Tsunderes and self-flagellating "heroes" - and that Paragons and Team Moms((Katara) takes the chick role and makes it hardcore -- turning boldness into bravery, mother-henning into fierce protectiveness, friendship into unshakable loyalty.) are more alien to her than serial killers.

Actually, now she reminds me of Frank Miller. As in that WMDs should be used to keep her away from non-Badass Normals.

;;chuckle;; @cetraskies: My apologies if I came across a bit strong in my observations. I'm also with you that, ideally, only Zuko and Sokka should go, which makes me wonder where the others are gonna bunk down during the mission. And that Zuko needs to get himself back to Dragons' Wings ASAP. Also, we've got a Chekovs Gun that was never fired—the papers that Zuko used to get them into the Fire Nation, Katara's vendetta papers. I just wonder if, since "The Southern Raiders" may not happen, Zuko's gonna mention the Raiders at all. He's actually under no obligation to, unless the rules of vendetta state that if it's brought to a great name he has to assist. I don't know. Considering that that was Katara's biggest tension point I can't imagine it not happening; but again, AU.

If Azula and co. aren't hiding on Ember Island I'll be shocked. I can't think of anywhere else for them to go. The Gaang probably won't end up there, they only went when Azula raided the Western Temple. Without that, they have no reason to be there.

@Kalaong: I actually really liked that Kataang piece. I still may never completely buy it, but I can at least see where the shippers can see it. Having never seen Xenogears, I can't comment on Fei and Elly, though I may check it out just to see this genetic memory thing. I think where it may go wrong for me is the execution in canon. If what the author states as Katara's feeling trajectory is accurate, it probably could have been made a bit more clear, because I actually thought they had a fantastic friendship/mother-child relationship, and it should have stayed that way. Adding the romance kinda wrecked that dynamic, made the friendship a little less authentic feeling. Also, the age gap never quite worked, at least for me.

I guess as far as the character development side, I don't think she's just throwing OOC behavior out there willy nilly. Aang freaking out about Hama is a natural extension of the Buddhist Monk value system he uses. Plus, pre-teen. Not exactly known for elasticity in their moral judgements. It doesn't surprise me that he sticks his fingers in his ears and refuses to believe people would want to commit, much less actually commit, an act that he sees as a mortal sin, especially if the girl he's in love with is involved. With Katara, a girl with her issues (and yes, I think these issues were always there, another thing I think the creators may have stumbled with. A girl with her past and childhood should NOT be that well adjusted, sorry.) is perfectly understandable in thinking that enemies need to die, painfully. And someone with the Avatar's power? Well, the little brat that wants rescue in her head just found a champion.

Finally, I know that you're biggest complaint is that they weren't like this is canon, vilified, etc. But, again, AU. Canon went out the window a LONG time ago. That's why I think that this isn't OOC or vilification. The circumstances are different, so the characters are different.

At least acknowledge that Aang is being Flanderized. Like I said, attempting to lie to his friends was like attempting to swallow excrement(and he never does it again). He was more traumatized by accidentally burning Katara than she was(and he refuses to Firebend until Zuko starts teaching him months later). He has to screw up first, and those screwups can be big, but he never repeats them.

And he does not shove moral arguments down peoples' throats until they go into comas. He has never preached to Sokka about meat being evil.

And if Katara is really that traumatized, Aang would be exponentially gentler with her.

Repeat after me; Vathara. Does. Not. Understand. Aang. Period. Dot. She actually admits this. Someone get her an Aang-specific ghostwriter, STAT.

And her Katara could use some help as well...

EDIT:Found a good Kataang piece:

The truth is, though, that she and Aang always shared an instantaneous bond, and one of the really beautiful things about their series-wide romance is how we see that their similarities and shared thought processes help seal their connection. Aang and Katara are often constant allies throughout the series, rarely fighting between each other because they're so commonly on the same page. Her heroic impulses fuel his need to live up to a hero's image, and his natural energy and liveliness fuel her need to feel alive after growing up in a backwater village with little outside influence. There are times the relationship seems to take different forms, with his wise-man status and her matronly demeanor. But these only highlight their separate characteristics, and not the communal characteristics they share as a couple. "Zutara" shippers ultimately failed to understand the realities of love, only imagining a kind of physical attraction that would have to be there (and yet wasn't) for two disparate souls like Zuko and Katara to join as one. And it fails to give Katara the credit for her inherent individualism. Katara would never fall in love with a polar opposite, one who would subjugate and equalize her extremes. Instead, she seeks out and connects best with one who supports her, gently guides her at times, and genuinely loves her for who she naturally is. Aang is not merely her soulmate, but her greatest cheerleader, just as she is for him. It couldn't be a more perfect match.

We may have to chalk the differences in character up to execution in canon as well, Kalaong. Just because someone disagrees does not make them necessarily wrong. I personally think canon didn't go far enough in showing what people with these backstories would really be like (and that we may have to blame on the format. At LA is for kids. Something like Buffy or Glee or even The Legend Of Korra, not so much.). In the canon verse, the metaphysics and psychologies of the characters work a certain way. In this AU? Totally different. Spirits are a LOT more malevolent, following or breaking with the essential nature of your element has consequences, and character backstories place a lot more weight on their shoulders and minds.

Honestly, Aang is perceptive, but not omniscient. He has no way to know that Katara's hurts go as deep as they do, nor do I think he'd be coddling to her if he did. Firstly, since she wouldn't say it anyway, and secondly, since given her character, even in canon, she would respond to empathy, not pity. And he'd know that (or I hope he would). And it's not exactly out of character for Aang or the average preteen to say things without thinking(especially one as influenced by air as he is) or be rigid and insistent in their worldviews, or even lie to those they love if they are scared to lose them. I can forgive all of that. The refusal to firebend after hurting Katara, not so much.I can understand and empathize with why, but it's not admirable or grown up, someone should have called him on that sooner. And he CAN get preachy at times, "The Southern Raiders" and "The Serpent's Pass" are prime examples of that. Vathara just extrapolated out from canon behaviors.

Neither Aang nor Katara are perfect examples of virtue. Toph and Sokka and Zuko aren't, either. To be honest, I'd have no interest in this fic OR canon if they were. But canon glossed over a LOT of things due to its audience being first-through-sixth graders. This fic essentially aims at adults and hands the verse to Joss Whedon, it doesn't arbitrarily decide who the leather-pantsed Dracos and Death Eater Rons are like most fics do. And I think the fic verse is richer for it. Then again, as always, YMMV.

ETA: And while that piece does make a good argument as to why they work, the fact that they're so similar/the lack of conflict makes them boring to me. I like my romances with a bit more spark, a sense that while they are awesome together, they have enough differences to still be awesome people apart. Respecting their differences and growing together while working through disagreements. Balancing each other. Like, for example, Han and Leia, Bulma and Vegeta, Inuyasha and Kagome, and Korra and Mako. I won't even deny that I shipped Zutara because they reminded me of Han and Leia or Inuyasha and Kagome. That said, arguments that dismiss non Kataang shippers as "failing to understand the realities of love" aren't going to convince people, because again, disagreement does not mean wrong.

blackflamerose, sorry, I just noticed that I had spelled your username wrong. I'm so sorry!

Zuko will go with Sokka to get Shiyu, though not without upsetting Amaya, Iroh, the Wens, and just about everyone in his domain. They'll debate and discuss at length, but they'll understand that this is for the best. The Avatar must have his firebending teacher, pronto, or they're all doomed. Poor Iroh, hoping that he could have his nephew teach Aang. Well, Aang's getting the next best thing.

Aang and Katara do try very hard to live up to their culture's expectations. Nothing wrong about that. It's wrong to expect others to see things their way. Kalaong, you're forgetting the part where Aang and Langxue met. Aang went about shoving down Air Monk doctrine down Langxue's throat. That was not NICE. From chapter 73:

/Sure, Langxue was a waterbender, and maybe Zuko's people needed healers right now, and yeah, maybe Aang had said something about swords and benders who thought they needed weapons to hurt people, but - Langxue was using air. And airbenders weren't supposed to be violent. Ever. That was what being an Air Monk was all about. If Langxue was an airbender, he had to put that sword down.

Which was when Saoluan had... heh. If it was Sokka, Aang would think she'd kept Langxue from trying to punch him out. Which was crazy. He knew what Langxue was./

Whenever Aang gets all Air Monk preachy, it always comes down to him. He's a prideful little brat that needs to get his head out of the clouds.

Kalaong, This ignores what actually happened during WW 2, it ignores the bombings of cities of no strategic or military value, It ignores a ton of horrible acts committed during and in the aftermath of ww2 and it ignores that the Soviet Union was involved at all.

And actually none of Aangs friends, Zuko and Dragons wings, and King Keui want to see the fire nation butchered. They just realize that before you can stop the war, more people are going to have to die. It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

blackflamerose, I can see it coming up shortly before Zuko is due to return to dragons wings, and Zuko just heaving a sigh and going "right, let's go deal with that then." It would give us a chance to see what fire nation justice look like in action, which isn't really something we've seen before.

On a more general note, I've been re-watching the series. Katara says she hasn't been penguin sledding since she was a kid, and Aang counters that she still is a kid. But no she's not, if we look at the real life cultures that inspired the SWT marriage for women was most often at puberty. The only reason Katara wouldn't already be married in such a culture is lack of an eligible male.

It's official; Vathara has reached chapter 75, and it is a plot-buster! Aang's firebending teacher has been chosen, Zuko and Toph have finally found out about Aang's end-of-summer deadline, and it looks like the Gaang are headed back to the Fire Nation with a reluctant Zuko in tow. However, several glaring questions have arisen; where are Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee? Where is Makoto? And what are Ozai, Makoto, and the Face-Stealer planning that will take place at the end of summer? @blackflamerose-There are several places that Azula and co. could go, not least of which would be Byakko, to her grandfather. She could also end up at the Boiling Rock, where Mai's uncle is the warden. Why look for a fugitive princess in prison? I honestly didn't think of Ember Island, but it is a possibility. Katara and Aang still have a lot of growing up to do, both in their relationship and as people. Part of that is realizing that there are parts of their personality which they may not like or appreciate, but need to learn to live with them nevertheless. The great spirits of water are two, Tui and La, Push and Pull, yin and yang. This is human personality, and as Vathara has made quite clear, all benders are human. This is just another thing that Katara and Aang will have to learn, if they wish to fully master themselves as benders and as individuals. The unholy triad has been revealed: Ozai, the manipulative Fire Lord, Makoto, the literal Dark Dragon, and Koh, one seriously big centipede with one seriously big ax to grind. Ozai has air-ships, Makoto can shape-shift, and Koh has thousands of the unquiet dead at his command, and Sozin's comet is on the horizon. What are they up to? And how can the Gang stop them? Lets hope we find out next month.

I wonder if they'll later look over the conservation with Asagitatsu and realize that she called Zuko HERS? And the implications of what she said of the last visits the Avatar made to her domain.

Teo will probably yell a little at Aang. I can't imagine him being okay with what Aang did and he probably has made friends in Dragons' Wings. Langxue will definity yell if he decides to stop avoiding Aang.

I wonder how Katara will react when she's told what happened. She'll probably try to make Zuko out to be a bad guy for snapping at Aang. And freak out over a GIANT SPIRIT DRAGON threatening Aang, especially given the last run in with a Dragon they had.

Zuko bringing up Gyatso and how he was respectful may have been a far better idea than he realizes. Aang adores Gyatso, to the point of idolization. Hearing how Gyatso did things might be at getting Aang to change his usual tatics than simply telling him to change would ever be. Zuko calling Aang out on his behaviour and how DIFFERENT it is from what Gyatso would have done will probably prove to be very, very effective.

I'm more worried about what Langxue said about "only having so much air". Does this mean that yaeroen die sooner or do they go into comas or something else to replenish their "air" supply?

I think Langxue was comparing himself - yaoren - as like divers who go deep beneath the waters. Yaoren are not at all like the Avatar. Aang has the ability to communicate with spirits, even see them, but the thing about him is that he's the Avatar. The Avatar is the World-Spirit in human form, learning how to be human in order to understand humans. Yaoren, on the other hand, aren't spirits nor are they really human. The Great Spirits made deals with certain humans, who then became yaoren. Whether or not at the time of the yaoren's death does the Great Spirit yield them up, is up for debate, but as for the World-Spirit...I don't think it was very fair.

This informs me just why Temul told Sokka not to see the Avatar Spirit as good.

These things don't bug me, though. Aang's thoughts on why the other Nations shouldn't eat meat due to the decaying, rotting flesh of the zombies insults not only those Nations, but his friends. He hasn't even TRIED chicken at all in his life, so who he is to judge? Also, these thoughts:

' "That sounded like Zuko thought he'd lied to Katara. And he hadn't! He just hadn't told her where he was going. Like she hadn't told him why not to bend the water. That was fair, right?" '

So. Aang thought it was only FAIR that he go and bend Dragons' Wings' harbor to see the drowned himself because Katara wouldn't tell him the truth. To Aang, it seems it's only fair that he get to do something completely out of line if someone else does it FIRST before him.

Given that when La/Yue talk to Langxue during his vision, she said "My brother must yield you up, but you are still mine." So I don't think the Great Spirit gives them up and keeps a hold on them which is where Yaoren are reincarnated with the same elements unless something happens.

Speaking of which, is there any specefic reason why there couldn't be two Fire/Water yaoren other than there aren't very many and the Spirits probably want them to cover all the elements they can?

@cetraskies, Aang is twelve years old. I will admit when I was that age I would do somethings I was told not to because others got away with it.

Aang was also raised without any wants, at all. The temples had enough food for Gyatso to throw pies at people with Aang. Aang was also a bending genius so he probably had special treatment. So to sum it up; Aang was raised like a noble without any politics to get in the way of life.

Odd thought - despite that admittedly sheltered upbringing, Aang has an incredible sense of noblesse oblige. Bystanders being threatened by battle between him and firebenders? Surrender. Past life accused of crime? Submit to judgement. Random passers-by in danger? Get involved. Just because he's too innocent to understand everything everywhere all the time doesn't diminish the magnitude of his compassion in the slightest.

People are supposed to teach him things. Instead, everyone who doesn't know him personally harangues him for not being omniscient. And now Vathara writes Katara as being unable to tell him things she thinks he won't like to hear - even if she knows he needs to know them. Bullshit. What about the whole vengeance thing she's obsessed with? She talks with him about that, and even though all he really offers is platitudes, he doesn't condemn her.

Oh, I forgot, this isn't Aang and Katara, it's Vathara!Aang and Vathara!Katara. They're ignorant and hateful because she writes them to be.

@jwagne51: I understand what you're saying. At the same time, though, where is Aang's sense of decency? His respect for others? That he and his friends just landed in Dragons' Wings without permission and thinking that he can just hero his way in and expect to be congratulated for his help smacks of great hubris. Hopefully, the gAang will get out of their before the undead really break out of the ice.

@Kalaong: Aang has no such sense of noblesse oblige. If that were so, then why is he acting so irresponsibly for a Master of Air? He took Appa, Sokka, Katara and Toph from one failure to another. Dragons' Wings is not Aang's responsibility. Asagitatsu is rightfully righteously furious with Avatar Aang. Teo told him NOT to go down to the harbor, put out the memorial lights, and bend the water. If Aang had any sort of compassion for the people in Dragons' Wings, why didn't he listen to their warnings? Teo's an airbender, so his word should have been enough. Unless Aang thought that Teo was wrong and lying, just because Aang couldn't sense anything off about his breathing. The extent of Aang's compassion seems rather limited to those he considers friends, then.

Just because the gAang failed with their Invasion doesn't mean they get to try their luck on someone else's territory.

@Kalaong Aang is very empathic; I remember when I just started high school I ran after a guy harassing a girl to later find out they are siblings.

@cetraskies "Or what?" Aang challenged. "Like you said. I'm the Avatar." this tells me all I need to know about Aang. Aang is going through that phase were everything that goes wrong is his problem and to make matters worse Aang is also the current reincarnation of the "messiah" so this reinforces that phase.

A lot of people seem to think that the Avatar is synonymous with "savior" or "Messiah". This is a common misconception propagated throughout the world. The Avatar may bring balance to the world, but that doesn't exactly mean it's at all fair. Asagitatsu was - is - not Aang's problem. The reason why he's getting so much flak is because he just barged in there, meddling in their business, when Aang is not meant to dispute any claims against their being there. He ignored the locals' warnings, and went without their PERMISSION to do anything there. Asagitatsu said it herself - the Avatar has trespassed. First it was Kesuk, then it was Yangchen, now Aang. Tao may have misguided Aang unintentionally, but the part about trespassing on a Spirit's domain seemed to have slipped Aang's mind.

chapter 39

"That's what got Avatar Hirata," Langxue said as she shuddered. "Yangchen... it took her a long time to get the whole story. Subodei and Xiangchen, they knew who she was. So they had her raised... well. The yāorén finally got her loose, so she could find teachers..." He shrugged. "By the time she got to the Fire Nation, they'd been fighting off raids for decades. They figured things out."

The yāorén finally got her loose, so she could find teachers..."

She has been planning this since ch 39. Two years ago!

I say that Subodei is Yangchen's biological father. It may just be a figment of my imagination, but I can't think of anyone else who could just find the Avatar so quickly and give her up so easily to someone else to raise. If it were someone else's child, why would Subodei just "give" the child up? Unless it was his to begin with...it wouldn't be a hard stretch to discover that one of his wives, even his principal wife, bore the next Avatar, and that's how Xiangchen was able to be at his master's side when it happened. I have thought about whether or not Subodei's own underlings having children, or even from some Air group that Yangchen may have come from, but then, what obligation would Xiangchen have to stick to Subodei? Any sort of alliance would have been nothing but words on the wind.

;;deep breath;; Ok. That happened.

Aang, oh Aang. You finally have the revelation we've waited literally YEARS for you to have, and the first thing you do with it will almost surely burn away any goodwill remaining in Dragons' Wings. If anything, this will end up being the thing that FINALLY gives Katara the big clue-by-four she's needed since at least Ba Sing Se. Because this? Pretty much her fault. She covered up some REALLY important information that Aang had needed to know so he wouldn't pull a stunt like this. Aang is now responsible for setting zombies on an area that is only just recovering from Fong.

If the rest of the domain doesn't end up killing them, I highly doubt that they will ever be welcome there again.

Hehehe. So this is how the gAang will end up getting out of Dragons' Wings.

I like it.

Aang...you are stupid as hell. He's no longer just the Wide Eyed Idealist Up To Eleven...he's really really STUPID.

Poor Langxue. I knew that his little idea would be crushed as soon as he met Aang, but really...I can say that Langxue did deserve to have his hope crushed. He's the one who knows what it feels like have lived another life and DIED trying to do the right thing, and he wanted to convince Zuko to teach Aang? Not that I thought Zuko would ever teach Aang. After what Aang did...shit. I'm surprised Toph hasn't slapped Aang in the face like he needs because Katara doesn't want to.

Maybe next chapter, Katara will change her mind, and then have Sokka slap her in the face, because she needs it too. Why Toph has to compromise herself just to babysit a pair of children just makes me want to slap Toph as well, even though she's my favorite character.

Speaking of Langxue, there may be a small continuity error regarding Zuko as teacher. Originally, he wanted Zuko to teach firebending, even knowing Zuko was yaoren. Now, Langxue's saying Zuko can't teach Aang BECAUSE he's yaoren.

And yes, SO many characters need to be slapped right now, because the ish is about to hit the fan. BIG TIME.

It's also somewhat possible that Langxue wasn't completely aware of the yaoren teacher problem until he got a psychic kick in the teeth upon finding Kaze's place of death. I'm not sure if he's supposed to be completely aware of all of his past life's knowledge and experiences from the word go.

Though yes, midden and windmills are certainly going to feature.

Really. Now Aang has no where to hide for his little mistake. Katara is very much as fault as well, though I doubt Aang will be able to hide behind her, even if she is the reason WHY.

As for Katara...who the hell does she think she is? Not wanting Aang to find a firebending teacher. How fucking DARE she. Even if Zuko isn't going to teach Aang due to many good reasons, what makes her think that she has to even LIKE Aang's future firebending teacher? She's his waterbending teacher and friend, but she has absolutely NO RIGHT to make decision for him. And for her to even THINK that "Maybe he doesn't have to know" about the undead, when it's clear that it is Aang's fault! She even agreed that it was Aang's fault that Langxue is yaoren, and she doesn't have the resolve nor the respect to tell him the truth. Oh well. I guess turnabout is fair play. Aang, you are so going to hurt once you find out that Katara's been hiding things from you, just like Master Gyatso.

I think it's time the gAang revisit Ba Sing Se, since they'll be chased out of Dragons' Wings. Fong may have been a bastard, but at least he never sent the undead at Zuko's people. Somehow, I doubt the Earth King will be happy to see them again.

Any noticed how Aang expects airbenders, including the one that is a waterbender too, to live how the monks lived? And that he KNOWS what they're like, simply because they can bend air? Sorry, kid. It doesn't work like that.

I wonder if Dragon Rage!Zuko will be popping up? Be interesting to see Aang's reaction to his growling, considering it freaked out IROH.

Katara needs to clue in that she can't decide things for Aang, like Cetraskies says. And the point about the Earth King being unhappy to see them is probably right too considering the results from the last time they were there, (the animal stampede from the zoo that took up valuble farming space and (unwittingly) letting AZULA in, for example).

After thinking a little more on it, it isn't Aang's fault that Koh played him like a fool. However, it is one of his many big duties and responsibilities to right certain wrongs - such as the mess he made at the North Pole, which is why the undead are there and creeping up Dragons' Wings in the first place. The boy is stupid, still. And after meeting his parents at the Western Air Temple, after Shih told him, after his own mother told him, as Yangchen told him, and everyone else have been hinting to him for quite some time...

Not all Airbenders were monks, and very few ascribe to his Way. I doubt Teo and his friends even want to be like Aang. They may like him, but they don't want to be LIKE him.

Katara is a big hypocrite. So everyone should like Aang, huh? They should give up everything they've known and loved for the Avatar? Their families, cultures, everything else behind? Because no, Katara has NOT put aside her need for revenge. She's only managed to file her noble little quest away under "Not As Important as the Avatar" at the moment. It won't be long before Aang comes to the realization that just because Katara didn't say she was going to take revenge now doesn't mean she won't do it later...especially once Aang is out of her sight. It is a mark of Katara's character that she's put aside her feelings and Tribe duties for Aang's sake, really, it is. But right now, Aang needs someone to switch his bottom. Well, after the Zombie Apocalypse that Aang has just set off, the little liar.

Who knows where the gAang will go after this. I do hope Ba Sing Se, just so we can see Kuei and Eshe again. If anyone can teach Aang about Spirits, compassion, and responsibility, the Earth King can. Eshe could probably teach Aang not to flinch if she happens to not airbend at him...but maybe she could toughen him up.

Honestly, Embers has become The Howard Stern Show for me.

Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes a day. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.

Kenny: How could this be?

Researcher: Answer most commonly given: "I want to see what he'll say next."

Kenny: : All right, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?

Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.

Kenny: : But... if they hate him, why do they listen?

Researcher: Most common answer: "I want to see what he'll say next."

What entirely new plot device can Vathara pull out of her ass to prove that the Gaang is a bunch of immature, useless brats(aside from the "badasses" Toph and Sokka - though Sokka needed to be souljacked to make him anything more than moderately useful) who could only be made useful to the world through the Ludovico Technique? Every bit of historical, supernatural, or sociological research that she drops in(that Aang is just too sweet and idealistic to take seriously) just makes the Fire Nation more noble and the other three more barbaric. Hell, I'm personally betting on Fire Nation rapebabies being superhumans or something - maybe that's why Tao has greater spiritual power, that "ingrate." Or that psychological trauma exponentially increases bending capabilites, especially in children. Or perhaps the Fire Nation's constant clan wars were the equivalent of Fatal Frame's human sacrifices, holding the Spirit World at bay. Maybe even that the coming of Sozin's Comet and the ensuing global genocide will prevent Koh from attaining physical form a la the Mechons' slaughter of the Homs in Xenoblade Chronicles.

I guess I'll find out in three weeks...

Perhaps Zuko will find a gateway to humanity's homeworld and his ultimate allies - UNETCO.

Is Dragons' Wings the only plase where there are Zombies? The Fleet was pretty huge so probably spread out a bit, enough so that not all the bodies are in the same currents.

Some colonies are gonna be glad the have walking flamethrowers around to charred the things into ashes, aren't they?

As for Katara being a hypocrite, yeah, she is. She criticises Zuko for wanting to be able to return home to his family but if she was in his position where capturing Aang was her only ticket home, I have to wonder what differences there'd be (like whether she would avoid lethal methods the way Zuko did). Aang is gonna be pretty upset when he hears she still plans on taking vengence. Someone needs to explain things to him since he can't figure it out himself I'm not calling him stupid (even if he is an idiot). Vengence is just so alien to him and his way of life he can't understand it at all.

And here I thought the Fire Nation claimed descent from the dragons, the blood of Agni, Great Spirit of the Sun. I guess I was wrong.

Tao is a shaman because...well, adding to his prowess as an Earthbender, I guess he got into the spiritual part once he found he had a knack for it. I would think that someone like him would have searched for a teacher to train him. He's not that inept, only understandably prejudiced after what happened to his mother. Geez, what kind of superpower is that? Useless old stick, how dare he train Aang?!

Aaand again Vathara!fanon dominates over canon. Aang LET Katara go face Yon Rha, fully aware that she might come back a cold-blooded killer. He doesn't like vengeance. He begged her to let it go. But he. Did. Not. Interfere.

Canon is done, Kalaong. There's really no need to make a shiny copy of it. Go watch the original cartoon if you want. The rest of us have moved on - many to fanfiction.

Once the Southern Raiders episode does happen though, I don't think Aang's reaction will be any different. Yes, he'll attempt to placate Katara, but this time...I have a feeling he'll understand a little bit better of WHY Katara feels she must resort to dirtying her oh-so-pretty hands in blood.

To wit, Shimmer712, Aang does not understand vengeance. Even for an airbending "master", he has no IDEA of what responsibility and duty really is. The Water Tribes, Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom all have a sense of obligation to family, which Aang's now defunct people do not care to teach. I believe Langxue is supposed to help with this, somehow, if he ever gets to teach Aang anything...

If you're going to twist their personalities like that, then why even keep the names? Why connect it to an established universe at all?

The point of fanfic is either to put established characters in new situations, or new characters in established situations.

Change both and you might as well be writing 100% original fiction. And you should make that plain in advance.

Honestly, at this point I'm only following the fic for the same reason no-one ever really tears their eyes from a train wreck if it's possible - what the hell is going to explode next?

I should have seen it before. Aang "let" Katara...? So he gave her his permission, did he? Interesting.

There comes a time for giving advice, scolding even, and yes, preaching, but there is a fine line between that and controlling another person's life. Katara has her own life separate that of Avatar Aang. That she wants to become the waterbender that her Tribe has always wished for, not to mention wanting to honor her mother's memory, is worthy and true. I don't see why Aang needs to allow her to do anything at all. And what does Aang understand anything about vengeance? Like many others have noted, observed and stated before, Aang doesn't understand the concept of family. Vengeance doesn't register. How can he even "like" it if he doesn't understand it?

Katara and Aang aren't all that different - as said by some of the other posters above, in canon, they are merely reskinned modern day kids with modern values. It doesn't make any sense in the world the Four Nations are supposed to be based off of. It's normal to want revenge - many peoples around the world did it, and likely still do it today. We modern people just don't see it all that much so raw or pure. Then there's the fact that censorship in America have a tendency to take out what they find "too mature" (what is considered normal in another culture isn't in another), as if most kids are idiots or something.

Aang "let" Katara go insofar as he didn't actually have a choice. Considering the point where he "let" her was when she was about to steal Appa. Rather like letting the guy who stole your car take it for a spin.

As for what the point of fanfic is, I always thought that the point of fanfic was to allow an author creative freedom over an established fic. That includes altering the character, because it doesn't make any sense to change the environment but have the character stay the same. Case in point re-skinned modern teenagers in the Varathaverse wouldn't survive.

@True Metis: You live up to your username.

I never actually thought about that. Aang did let Katara use Appa. The more appropriate word, I think, would be "lend". They all ride on Appa, and the big guy never minds taking the gAang anywhere...but yeah, she kind of did do that, didn't she?

The changes in the gAang aren't all that deep - all the author really did was flush them out in a more realistic world where the values match up with the cultures the Avatarverse is based off of. Why shouldn't Toph know as much as she does, being from a powerful upper-class wealthy family? Why shouldn't Katara feel the deep need to take vengeance the way her Tribe sees fit? Why shouldn't Sokka be able to see things from a future Water Tribe-chiefs' perspective? Why shouldn't Aang see the peoples of the Four Nations through the lens of a sheltered, naive, immature twelve-year-old that he is and not some enlightened monk?

Do I? I'm not actually entirely sure what you mean by that.

Steal itself might not be the best word to use, Appa has shown himself on several occasions to be smart enough to make his own decisions (some arguably more intelligent than Aangs) and if he doesn't want to go you'd better find an alternative. And Aang being a monk technically doesn't own Appa either.

Tribal cultures are hardcore, and the death penalty is pretty much the default punishment in many of them. Cause putting them in prison or cutting off a hand for stealing or some other punitive measure doesn't really work when you'd then have to feed that person. Straight out killing them or exiling them was the way to go, and exile is a death sentence in of itself. Surviving alone in the wilderness is damn near impossible, the only way to survive would be to find another tribe. Which is its own set of difficulties given a single person is rare and therefore they would be able to guess that your an exile. Assuming they didn't just kill you for trespassing.

Slavery was pretty much the only time prisoners where taken, and from what we've seen WT doesn't do slavery. So fights in the water tribe would come in two flavours mock battles were someone might be hurt but people rarely die, which Sokka mentions I believe. And real fights where no one on the losers side survives. And yes that does include women and children because even if the other side doesn't outright kill them the loss of half their population will.

"Metis" - Zeus' first wife, mother of Athena, and Titaness of wisdom, deep thought, and prudence. Actually the name connotes "magical cunning". The Athenians prized metis as one of their characteristics. Usually, most people would just use Athena, but it seems some still remember the story of Athena's birth, like us, for instance. It's so hard to find people who use reason and common sense in arguments these days.

The Water Tribes aren't into slavery...but they at one point in time, as Hakoda told Aang in the fic, did actively participate in raids. He also told Aang that Sokka and Katara were too young to remember that. And real raids...well, they are meant to be terrible. In real life, the many various Native American tribes raided each other quite happily (which included a lot of killing, looting and rape). Taking captives from a raid and using them as manual labor was pretty common, I read in one book about the Comanche. Their treatment of certain captives does give one a lot of room to debate and discuss.

I wonder why Appa hasn't gone into Animal Guide Mode or airbended Aang and co. off his back in an overenthusiastic attempt to "hug" his old dragon friend Shidan. I'm still a bit miffed that Aang treats Appa like a pet most of the time, when it's quite clear and made clear to Aang that animals have the edge over humans many times in size, intelligence and physical fitness.

Metis in my case refers to my heritage, Capital M Métis (I can't be bothered to change my keyboard language every time I write it) in Canada is a distinct ethnic group. So True Metis is me distinguishing the group rather than the little m meaning mixed in french. Never heard of the first wife of Zeus that's interesting.

Are you sure Hakoda mentioned slaves? Most of the tasks they had wouldn't be suited to slaves as you need a certain amount of trust for those tasks. I suppose there were a few, but I don't recall ever hearing anything about the Inuit owning slaves. Of course that's not the only influence for the WT. I do know of a couple of northern tribal groups that used slaves, the Haida where massive slavers, and had a very sophisticated society. All the more impressive when you realize they didn't farm, as most place couldn't get to the population densities they hit without agriculture.

I often wonder about Iroh claiming that sky bison where simply intelligent beasts. Appa always seems so much more, so I wonder if it is possible that Avatar's animal guides are more intelligent than other's of their species.

I learn something new everyday.

Going back into chapter 47, Hakoda says that before the Fire Nation came, the villages in the South pole would all have "little ambushes". I'm going to guess that there were many different tribes in the South Pole, kind of like there are here in the United States. Since he's talking to Aang, I wonder just how sanitized he made that little piece of information before delivering it, because Katara does tell Toph that they ought to have told Aang about the raid on the Fire Nation warship her father picked up.

From what we've been told in the fic, the Avatar and their spirit animal guide are linked. It can be said that Appa is very different from his kind, so definitely much more intelligent than the norm. It would be really nice if Appa could somehow communicate with Aang that they need to fly out of Dragons' Wings and hope that Shidan and his kin don't kill them after this. If that Bei Fong merchant contact is still around, somewhere, and Zuko isn't too furious with them all to tell them...

Chapter 73. Vathara? You are EVIL. A genius, but evil nonetheless. But, I suppose with a fanbase this hungry, we deserve a cliffhanger or two.

Aang, you have officially earned the title of Too Stupid to Live. After everything you've gone through, Zuko on the beach, Hama, Gyatso and the birds nest, Fong and the firestorm, one would think you would have learned the first rule of adventuring. If you don't understand it, DONT TOUCH IT!

By putting out those fires, Aang has 1) threatened the people of Dragon's Wings, 2) threatened the entire north by giving Koh an avenue to Asagitatsu, and 3) threatened the entire world by putting himself in a situation where he is in immediate physical danger, in the middle of an active and touchy volcano, and at the mercy of a malevolent great spirit.

Iroh had better be on his toes, because once Zuko gets through with Zombipocalypse, he's going to do to Aang what the Ocean did to Zhao. Personal revenge, and Aang deserves it. Personally, I hope that Kuzon comes out to have a little talk with the airheaded ninny, and explain exactly just how badly Aang has screwed up. I hope Langxue, Zuko, and Shirong all have the chance to give Aang a thorough scolding.

As for Katara, I don't think that she will have any sympathy for Aang either, and Sokka and Toph won't have any sympathy for her for not telling Aang about the drowned in the first place. As a tribeswoman, she has to consider what Aang did as more than just a simple mistake. What Aang has done is tantamount to inviting a Wendigo to tea. I see a bloody sunrise in the next chapter.

Best case scenario, nobody gets killed. Aang gets the snot kicked out of him by Zuko, and Katara goes back to her father and stays with him. Aang starts training under Captain Jee and the Marines and learns firebending from people who know about trouble and can deal with it.

Worst case scenario. Aang is killed or goes Avatar and Asagitatsu erupts, killing everyone and the whole series ends with the laughter of the Face-Stealer ringing across the world.

Next chapter in three weeks. Cross your fingers folks.

This is why I said before that all the gAang needs to be slapped. Hard. I really do think that more than one needs a taste of the strap, though.

I don't want Kuzon coming out. Some secrets need to stay secret. As for the three yaoren, I do think that Shirong will be sending a message to his King about how the Avatar interfered majorly with his will, not just Fong. So much for diplomatic relations.

I've been thinking. If Aang survives the drowned and nobody else gets killed, what should his punishment be? Just telling him to go away isn't going to cut it, not with three competent and likely pissed off yaoren sitting around.

How's this; take Aangs tattoos away. With Earth healers, Fire healers, Water healers and Spirit healers around, it should be relatively simple, and frankly, Aang hasn't been acting at all like a master bender. Just a kid with more power than sense. Without his tattoo's, no one will recognize him as the Avatar. He won't be able to call himself a master airbender, because without the tattoo's, he has no recognition and therefore no authority to dictate to anybody, least of all to other airbenders.

Simple. Aang and company will be prohibited from being around, near or in Dragons' Wings after this little episode is done.

Aang's tattoos can't be taken away. He is an airbending master by his Way. Whether the other Air peoples recognize him as a Master of Air is a matter for them to decide and judge. There are many, though, who will likely question Aang's "mastery" and even reject his Way as being a false Path, since many know who Xiangchan was and did. Some may just judge him on the basis of being one of Xiangchan's followers like Ty Lee did. Some may be willing to give him a chance, but we'll have to see whether any new airbenders or Nomads pop up who are on his side.

If Aang tries, maybe he'll get Kuei's sympathy. Maybe, if they can even get into Ba Sing Se again.

Other airbenders avoid Aang BECAUSE of the tattoos! In Chapter 49, the yamabushi nearly has a heartattack at the thought of being introduced.

Aang is an airbender, yes. He may even have the power and skill to have earned his arrows. But, he is still a child, and furthermore, he is the Avatar. An individual bond by his bending abilities to the laws of all tribes, and no tribe. By Emberverse, the Avatar's duty lies in the interaction of the human world and the spirit world. That Aang continues to claim himself and all airbenders as Air Nomads is erroneous. Aang demands that Langxue put down his sword, because how can he be an airbender, and therefore an Air Nomad, if he doesn't abhor blood, violence, and blades? Furthermore, Aang doesn't know half-as-much as he thinks he knows about the society and culture he grew up in. A society built by a schemeing, twisted, mind-bending monk/shaman fanatic, whose big idea for peace was to take over the world through murder, rape and pillage, and then make everyone peaceful by lobotomizing them with mental air-bending.

Taking Aangs tattoos will punish Aang by showing him that he can no longer see himself as the sole source of right action and right judgement, and also, show that even if he doesn't have the tattoo's he is still an airbending master, freeing him from his past and cutting him off from the world before the war. It's the same as Zuko cutting off his topknot. It's a release from a stiffling society, allowing for change and new life. This will break Aang's heart, yes. But he will never gain control of firebending if he doesn't learn kansatsusuru, to watch, to listen, to learn, and come to a conscious realization of the nature of consequences.

This is what learning to be a firebender is all about. The process of transformation, from one state, the transformation, and then the end state. Beginning, journey, end. Old state of being, action to change, and new state of being. This is why dragons can take human form, this is how fire-healing is even possible, this is why humans make forges and feel joy in watching flames, this is the basis of what fire does!

None of us can say what is going to happen next. I just hope the story doesn't end.

It's good to have something to debate upon.

Taking away the tattoos is way too extreme, Elementals Advocate. Even Kuei knows that Aang is just a child and is ignorant, but I doubt he'll punish Aang for that. After Dragons' Wings, maybe Aang will be a little wiser for the ware. Besides, no Air Nomad would want to even go near him. They have no such authority over him for that.

All he needs is someone strict but fair (meaning that life is not fair). I think that Aang should meet Eshe. Being both a healer and a swordswoman, she seems like the type to be kind...well, as kind as a desert child raised under harrowing conditions fighting for dwindling resources like water. So far, the only people whom Aang really cares to take their word on anything Air-related are Airbenders (Gyatso, Shih, Gyate), since he doesn't take even hints from even his own friends.

Aang has gotten encouragement from his parents, good advice, several clues as to what to do about the mess his predecessors made. However, the time for coddling is over. The boy needs to be disciplined. Who better to teach him than an airbending master who can heal and kill? Eshe has been raised in an environment that requires strict survival skills, zero tolerance for foolishness and idleness (hello Aang), and a keen sense of pragmatism. The Touzaikaze have made deals with the Sandbenders and other earthbenders for how long? They had to, if they wanted to live in the desert. Let Aang learn about these different Air Nomads who've lived hidden in the Earth Kingdom's Si Wong desert, and maybe he'll start to understand Earth a little more, because right now, he doesn't. How can you suggest he learn to firebend if Toph says that he only thinks he knows earthbending?

Put Aang in an environment where he CANNOT be allowed to fall back on his usual habits. For once, make Aang earn his food and water. If he fails to accomplish any task set by her, he will doesn't get to eat or drink. Let Aang learn what it is to be on someone else's schedule and live under their sufferance. In the desert, no resource can be wasted, and if Eshe does get to meet the Avatar, I hope she pounds this lesson into him. She could teach him not just to survive, but how to really LIVE.

I don't think Eshe will like Aang knowing about her people. She may consent to meeting and associating with him on the condition that her people are permitted to keep their distance and out right avoid him if they choose. Of course, Air Benders rejecting him may shock him a bit, especially if one of those Air Benders tells him in detail how they came to live in the desert (hiding from Xiangchen and then Kuzon giving them children). And she probably wouldn't put up if Katara coddling Aang and might flat out that state that either Katara stops interferring or Eshe washes her hands of the Gaang - and her people will too.

Of course, there is the possiblity the G Aang may insist on staying at Dragons' Wings, Toph, out of concern,Katara and Aang out of self-rightousness/guilt. It's also possible that Aang and Katara haven't accepted that Kuei GAVE UP that land and that Zuko is the authority there and therefore won't heed what he says.

Aang will probably try to stay of he finds that Zuko and Shirong are yaoren since he sees yaoren as "the Avatar's helpers" when Langxue blows up when Iroh nearly outright says just that. Katara may try to get Zuko on her side if she gets over her biases and preconception and try to offer to teach Zuko waterbending- and be baltantly rejected (unlikely, unless she has gone through her character-development - she currently hates him too much).

In the last chapter we heard from Ba Sing Se, Kuei had mentioned how awful it must be for the Avatar, being a child who has never known war, and Eshe merely said "If it's hard for you, it must be awful for a child?" I think she must be neutral about the Avatar, since there's really no undercurrent of prejudice or bias. It was because of Wan Shi Tong that Eshe's people were driven from their original homeland to the desert, not because of Xiangchen. The Touzaikaze only went underground because they wanted to avoid Subodei and his White Wind. Time will tell whether they know of Xiangchen and the Temples.

Eshe, to me, seems like the only one willing to give Aang a chance. It depends if the gAang ever does meet Kuei again, and this time, he's not going to be all happy to see them. The Earth King has his own people to protect, as well as keeping the succession alive, a city to reclaim. As much as he'd like to help, I don't think he's going to weigh Aang against the one who can save him and his Kingdom. Kuei would ask Eshe if she's comfortable at all at having the Avatar in her midst first before receiving Aang and his friends.

I don't think the gAang will stay in Dragons' Wings - not after the big blunder that Aang just made. Everyone is going to want Aang out - even Teo and his friends, for endangering them. What's more, Shimmer712, Kuei "gave" up that land, not yet knowing that it was never Earth Kingdom land in the first place. I'm sure he'll pour over old records from his family's vault or library just to check his historical accuracy and let the gAang know. But yes, Kuei will reaffirm his treaty and state that Zuko is Lord of Dragons' Wings, and Earth King has no authority there.

Aang's not going to stay - he's going to run, again, from the yaoren and the people of Dragons' Wings righteous fury. Anyways, it's bad enough that Aang knows about Langxue, and he said that Aang's not supposed to learn from them until AFTER he masters the basics first. If it is revealed that Zuko is yaoren, then the only way that Aang is going to realize that is from the back of Appa as he flies away again after failing, while the yaoren and citizens of DW clean up the gAang's mess.

I wasn't very clear, sorry. Eshe herself may be willing to give Aang a chance, but she is loyal to her people and will probably want something in place to protect them in case it turns out Aang is like what people with Ty Lee's mindset about him are right. She'll be at risk if this is the case. Aang's not like that but Eshe will be going but what she is told and how may of those with her will be able to give her a detailed account of what he is like.

They can tell her that he is powerful, reckless, prone to using his powers and seems honestly eager to do what's right. But they won't be able to tell her if he believes that Xiangchen's way is right and will reinstate it or if he will be willing to reject it. So she will probably be cautious at first.

I really should have said that in my earlier post. Sorry.

Also, didn't Kuei have his library scrolls when he gave up the land? He also stated that he read through every treaty his people had. I'm not sure if Asagitatsu becoming EK land counts of as a treaty but there probably was something saying "so-and-so became EK territory in year so-and-so" so he probably has already checked. And use it as evidence to say, yes, it was his land and he decided to give it up so it's Zuko's land now.

Wait, does that include the temple? Are Teo and the other's technically part of Zuko's domain? I don't think it'll make much of a difference. Zuko won't make them move so they'll be where he can keep an eye them. He already plans to establish some sort of trade, so resources they have will get down to Dragons' Wings and vice versa so things will remain the same if that's the case, won't it?

If only the gAang do end up in Ba Sing Se, if only. Who knows where they'll go after Dragons' Wings. I recall Zuko many chapters ago talking to Shirong about genealogies in the Earth Kingdom after realizing that Aang just can't do subtle, and Toph being Bei Fong and all, well, her parents' employees just have to be around somewhere, right? It would be interesting if the gAang ended back in Toph's home. I for one would love for Toph and her parents to get along and set things right between them.

Eshe doesn't sound like the type to judge Aang by what others say...even if the lord of Dragons' Wings, one of her King's former Dai Li and the King himself know and even say that the Avatar is a foolish boy. Cautious, she will be, indeed. But it's not as if she can't go incognito when she needs to. Just go back to the chapter where she and her cousin Amisi were introduced (chapter 45). In fact, I think she'd probably tail the gAang and learn a few things about Aang. She'd learn that he's not at all like Xiangchen or his followers, but he's careless and coddled. Bad habits that need to be rectified will be rectified in good time.

The Northern Air Temple isn't part of Zuko's domain, but they are neighbors. Aang just unwittingly raised the undead. Teo and his friends may just get to see zombies for the first time not easily battered by wind. Asagitatsu will not be happy with this, and she'll let everyone know it, and the peoples of NAT and DW will be quick to spread the bad news. Shirong will see it that the Earth King's treaty stays and will further seek to inform Kuei of what happened during his duration at Dragons' Wings. It wouldn't be very nice to not tell the Earth King just what the Avatar did when he set foot in Dragons' Wings.

I'm also really excited to see how Dragon's Wings' sort of ...~official~ revelation to the world impacts everyone else. I can imagine that Ozai might have a few things to say.

I'm not sure when Sokka will actually be confronted about using the highcourt- I feel like everyone else will be largely focused on the horrific things that they just went through for the immediate...hey wait what? moment.

I'm also /loving/ that we're seeing both sides of Zuko in this chapter: the willingness to act, as well as the sadness of just what those actions were. I feel like the last scene was also a game changer in some ways- Aang once again being told that some very serious things needed to change in his worldview.

I'm curious though- with Dragon Wing's being established, are we nearing the last track of the story, or only halfway there?

Damn. I hate cliffhangers.

I didn't think that the author would have Zuko just tell Aang about everything - hidden airbenders, the Great Spirits' plans for them, Koh - it's just a lot to take in. I was hoping for one thing at a time, not this avalanche of problems simultaneously. Ah well. Life's just not fair.

So. Fong is dead. At least the man is getting a decent burial, unlike those poor people he had killed during his little march. Lucky man, because if Earth King Kuei found out he was still alive...

I believe Bo now understands the grim reality of what has just been admitted. That Fong violated his King's will - and that Bo had went along with using one of the Earth Kingdom's citizens as a sacrifice against Zuko's - is going to have major MAJOR consequences...for him and the rest of the Earth Army. If he ever makes it to face the King, that is. If he can face Xiu, and his people, and everyone else first.

Ahuuda, I doubt Embers is over by a long shot. Unless Vathara puts up a note saying that there will be a sequel continuing Embers...I see no "complete" on that status of the fic.

Asagitatsu is calm, now. Everyone must be, well, still in a state of shock if not traumatized by what just had happened. I'd like to know how long the gAang is staying, because shouldn't Aang be flying over to Kuei if he wants to talk to the Earth King about what is Earth Kingdom land? Prideful little airhead. I wonder if Langxue will bother with any of the Southern Water Tribe now...

Odd thought. Zuko wants to return his people to the clan wars that pre-date the Fire Lord. "Aggression turned inward, not out" as someone said. Well, how's this strike you?

"Whoever wins, our battle does not end. The loser is free from the battlefield, but the winner must remain there and the survivor must live his life as a warrior until he dies."

"Battle brings death. Death brings sorrow."

And of course...

"War. War never changes."

If someone can get that across to the Water Tribe and the Earth Kingdom, they'll probably be all for it. Probably prevent that invasion and genocide Zuko's so worried about, too. Aang will be a wreck, Incorruptibly Pure Stupid Good Messiah that he is, but that will probably make Zuko really happy.

Vathara's chapter 72 has blown me away, quite a few earthbenders, and one very freaked out avatar. A number of important points from across the series have also been brought to the fore, and now we tropers can spill about them.

First of all, Sokka's thoughts on Fire Lord Zouge's fate and Sozin's motives for goint to war in the first place. I actually figured this out a while ago, though Vathara's telling makes the situation far more personal. When Zouge was made the superior lord to all the great names of the Fire Nation, he became the repository of all the angst generated by the conflicts between the various Fire Nation clans. Vathara's description of Zouge being sawed upon as he tried to settle their conflicts, dying literally by inches as the stress ate at him. And Sozin would have seen this happening, watching his father at his duties. Given the loyalty Zuko and Azula show towards Ozai earlier in the series, is it so surprising that Sozin turned upon the balance of the world and the Avatar?

Fong bites the dust at last, and just in time too. Aang has met bullies and play ground politicals among the air nomads in Ja Aku, and faced Jets vicious sense of duty and justice. But Fong may take the cake in Vathara's menagery of fanatics. The man had become so mired in his sense of the world that, I believe, his spirit had stagnated. Indeed, I have to wonder if we won't find out later that Koh was subtly egging the general on.

Toph wows us once again with her earthbending talent, and exemplifies her ability as an earthbending master by stilling the earthquake caused by Fong's army. "As above, so below." If Toph couldn't make the earth center in itself, than she could make it center upon her!

Last but not least, Zuko and Aang meet up once again, and they aren't throwing each other around, YET. Zuko is at last in a position where he can just sit down and talk, and Aang has been throughly kicked out of his ivory tower, and willing to do the same. I sense that there is going to be alot more talking in the next chapter, and maybe some shouting. But now, perhaps, the "forces of good", can put all the pieces together and start kicking some serious ass.

Kalaong, the whole point of Dragons' Wings was to make a place where people could be whatever they wanted to be, and not what the world or society tells them to be. A place where they could be free. Zuko is willing to fight anyone - be it his father or the Avatar - for the right for his people to belong, and his people FOUGHT. They will fight if another Fong happens on the horizon. You don't think that the Wens will just lay by idly for Avatar Aang to do something when they can? Don't insult them.

As for the Earth Kingdom, don't think Kuei doesn't know what he's doing. He was the one who agreed to allowing Zuko the space his people needed. It's been revealed that the land Zuko and his people are settling in is NOT Earth Kingdom. If Aang has a problem with that, he should speak to Kuei about that, and see how well the Earth King LOVES the Avatar telling him what to do with "his" land. I distinctly recall Azula noting that the Earth Kings and the Avatars did not have a very good relationship, and I believe it. There's something odd about the royal family of Ba Sing Se. Kuei knows it best, and I would love to hear more about him and his family.

Elementals Advocate, you make an excellent point about Good Is Not Nice. Evil can have a beautiful face, as Makoto proved when she transformed herself into a noblewoman to meet Azula, her great-granddaughter, for the first time. Aang should know - he met Koh the Face-Stealer. And then there's Ja Aku, who we've only heard but don't know yet if he's alive or dead...

I will admit I did not see that revelation. I was wondering what everyone thinks about Aang being half Fire Nation?

Also, maybe it's just wank, but I see providence in the chemistry between Aang and Katara - the Air Nomads were destroying themselves by elevating their society above the families in it, and the last Air Nomad is literally dropped in the lap of someone to whom family is everything.

I also noticed something I guess I'm not as aware of or something: Vathara's pretty much saying that the reason the Avatarverse is in such disarray is because some nations figured out ways to force obedience to absolute rulers. The Fire Nation is "bound to a single bloodline" and the Air Nomads were bound to the code of the Elders - and this ultimately crippled both nations.

One last thing: I'm wondering if Toph has some hitch in her personality that could threaten her the same way similar things did the other benders - could defying her parents threaten her life?

I don't think so because Toph has been defying her parents ever since she found the Badger Moles.

To answer jwagne51's question above, I'd been suspecting this ever since Temul's memory, and it actually makes a lot of thematic sense. So much conflict and death have ocurred when both Air and Fire got out of control and out of balance. To have one of Air AND Fire be the one to set things right? Poetic and appropriate. Also, Aang is essentially the son of Kenshin and Kaoru, so once he gets his head on straight, he should end up showing the best of both of their trains of thought. The Kenshin Expy can sure give a clue-by-four, given his life experience.

Here's hoping that things work out as well as they can, and that maybe Aang can reconcile with Zuko sometime in the future.

I highly doubt that Aang and Zuko will reconcile in this life. I hope that the Gaang never realize who Zuko really is. Some secrets are supposed to stay secret.

So, Aang and Katara are believed to still be tied by the red string of fate? This isn't canon, and is not supposed to be, because if it were, then this would be nothing more than plagiarism. I hate plagiarists. What's the whole point of reading an AU fic, anyways?

If Fire and Air are going to be the one's to set things straight, I'm betting on Aang and Ty Lee. Temple monk and Fire Nation kunoichi, two airbenders from two completely different sects of Air. There's no way any member of the Fire Nation royal family is going to teach Aang about Fire, not after all the hurt his predecessors have caused them. Ty Lee seems a much more appropriate candidate, as she is Fire Nation raised and born of Air.

Then some damned impressive retcons are in order, as Aang and Katara's relationship has been an integral part of both their characters since the first episode. Aang, rather than basking in Katara's "rager's rescue praise" or whatever, was the one to pull her out of her shell of being forced to grow up too soon, encouraging her to enjoy rather than endure her life. And Katara, rather than encouraging Aang's immaturity, is the one who repeatedly encourages him to step up and take action. Without Aang, Katara might have lost herself to despair months ago, and without Katara, Aang would still be as immature as when he first came out of the iceberg - if he didn't get himself caught.

It's not a "red string of fate" - its both of them having personalities that provide what the other needs as well as desires.

That's so romantic. But hey, Avatar: The Last Airbender is mainly oriented towards children, and the whole kiss in the end and the sunset shining in the background provided the highest compliment to romance in a child's television series.

While Aang and Katara do get along for the most part in canon, I never quite understood just how they got over their cultural differences. Their lifestyles are just way too different to be compatible with each other. I'm just glad that in this story, it focuses a lot on the different customs and ways of the Four Nations.

The creators already had Aang and Katara as their OTP from the beginning of ATLA's conception. They were already bound by the red string of fate.

Culturally, I find the degree to which the Gaang is becoming judgemental rather jarring. Even if it's just naivete, canonically they only get wound up over the Obviously Evil things: people being abused or hurt, wanton destruction. This trend of finding things to dislike about each other every other chapter is just weird. Even Aang's vegetarianism isn't pressed firmly - Aang refuses to eat meat, but he doesn't harangue Sokka over being obsessed with meat.

Canonically, everyone in the Gaang seemed to understand that their beliefs were about how they themselves lived, not how others lived - because that kind of intolerance was part of what they were fighting against. Even in Korra, Aang and Katara's children essentially chose their own beliefs - Kya is essentially a Water Tribe hippie, Tenzin is an Air Monk with a family, and Bumi... seems to be Bumi's reincarnation.

Romance-wise? I guess how realistic the progression of their relationship is, is in the eye of the beholder, but I think this gal examines it fairly well.

Finding out how Earth was really different was appropriately jarring for Sokka, once Toph explained to him how truces work in the Earth Kingdom. Whether he likes or dislikes it isn't the point - it's learning to RESPECT another Nation's ways, even if it doesn't quite match up to your own. Of course, everyone has their own biases, and one can't help but judge. It's basic human nature.

What does Korra have anything to do with this fic?

Cultural misunderstandings I can buy. Them finding out things and recoiling I can't.

And I guess Korra doesn't have anything to do with Vathara's interpretation of the Avatar-verse, even though the series and "The Promise" go over the same ground, if in a rather less adult manner. But seriously - the original series started off slow and picked up speed. It sounds like she's judging the entire series by Korra's equivalent of "The Waterbending Scroll."

They're children. Get over it. Get a thicker skin, too, while you're at it.

I think it's been said in one of the author's notes that Vathara is not going to get into Korra anytime soon. Leave Korra to Korra, and ATLA to ATLA, shall we?

Can we at LEAST get rid of the whole "Katara wants to drown a nation for one woman's murder" thing Vath keeps insisting on? She understands guilt and innocence. Case in point.◊

It's called the YMMV page. Some of the posters there are more than willing to agree and disagree with you on your concerns about the fic. One of them was even so kind as to point out that Valkyrie is no good example for resistance in Nazi Germany.

Ohh, and you quoted Temul. Out of all the characters, you just had to go and choose the most biased Fire Nation female against Air Nomads and pretty much anything under the sun that harms her precious Shu Jing.

By the way, I never said "Katara wants to drown a nation for one woman's murder". Which is pretty much true - Temul doesn't need to be a live person to read Katara.

Here's a great one: anyone read part 3 of The Promise, yet?

The primary location, a colony called Yu Dao - is a hundred years old: - one of the oldest colonies, established by Fire Lord Sozin, and the only one seen which has both Firebenders and Earthbenders, unlike Haru's village where they are imprisoned on identification, or Gaipan(the village Jet flooded) where there are no earthbenders at all. What if "colonies" like Yu Dao - and Zuko's Dragon's Wings - are what Sozin intended from day one - a way of "sharing the Fire Nation's prosperity with the world?" The only problem was, Roku wouldn't even look at it! The United Republic of Nations might have come about a century and a half earlier if only Roku hadn't been an ass. The entire war could have been avoided by just one moment of clear thought.

The part I like the most? It all happened because Roku and Sozin wouldn't talk to each other calmly. And Aang was seconds away from fulfilling the "promise" and starting the whole mess up again! The only reason it didn't happen is because Vathara's favorite whipping girl gave Aang two separate Cooldown Hugs, took him aside, and asked him to consider his actions carefully. TAKE THAT.

Pretty sure Vathara isn't taking the Promise into account. It did kind of suck. Also that entire war could have been avoided by Roku not being a wuss.

Just to point something out, as some other poster somewhere in here said, yes, Katara understands guilt and innocence, but that's because the show essentially reskinned modern day kids and all their modern day attitudes into a pseudo-Pan Asian world. The trappings are there, but the cultural attitudes for the most part are not. The author is actually giving characters based on the Inuit and Ainu the attitudes and cultural viewpoints that someone who grew up with those backgrounds would actually have, just as she is giving characters based on the Imperial Chinese or Edo period/Meiji period Japan the same treatment. So yes, Canon!Katara would only lash out at Zuko or the ones doing the Obviously Evil stuff. She's just a modern day kid who would love a shot at the monster that killed her mother. Inuit/Ainu!Katara? Who lost her mother so young and so violently? I'd be shocked if she DIDN'T want to see the Fire Nation wiped off the map.

And to be honest, I do understand that Bryke's OTP is Aang/Katara, but since the canon Air Nomads are so heavily based upon the Tibetan monastic traditions, it did irritate me a little that Aang was able to just ignore the "no earthly attachments" thing, as that is a MAJOR part of their doctrine, just to get the girl. Granted, being the Last Of His Kind and all may give him a bit of wiggle room, but I liked that Vathara actually examined how someone raised in that tradition would view romantic love, and the uncomfortable realization that his "forever girl" may be forever out of his reach. Part of the fun of A Us lies in seeing how canon relationships differ in the new environment. In this more realistic version of ATLA? I don't think they're all gonna end up intact. Mai/Zuko certainly didn't.

Kalaong, why are you bringing up The Promise? These comics were written AFTER the show ended. It does not factor into this fanfic, and like the others have pointed out, is unlikely to be even read by the author.

New chapter is out. Let's discuss the relevant stuff instead.

blackflamerose, I couldn't agree with you more. It did confuse me how Bryke had Aang utterly ignore the whole "no earthly attachments" principle that is a vital part of Tibetan monastic traditions. Granted, the Air Nomads aren't meant to be RL Tibetan monks, and this is just a kids' show, and Aang is The Last Of His Kind, so he may do as he will. Bryke only created ATLA - they didn't really bother to nitpick into every single thing about the world they were making. Where would be the fun for us fanfic writers and readers?

That thing the really bugged me about that was not so much that he ignored the no earthly attachments part, it's that he ignored it selectively. Get married? Sure, why not. Kill the big bad that's bringing scorched earth policy to genocidal levels, nope against me beliefs. Little bald bastard.

@True Metis: Yeah, the whole marriage issue was ignored. Isn't there like a policy about the monks not getting married? Marriage is a social, public ceremony, and the implications surrounding that whole thing would be absolutely mind-boggling, never mind the fact that it may very well go against the rules and beliefs of what the Air Nomads had taught. Yeah, hey, I'm gonna marry a Water Tribe girl because I LOVE her and she's Good and even though her Ways are absolutely positively different and clash terribly with my own and I don't like some of the stuff they do like eat meat and go on whale hunts, we're gonna be together 4ever. Riiight.

On the new chapter, however, Asagitatsu is revealed to be not just one of the major volcanoes of the Avatar world - but the world's HEART. What is your move, Avatar Aang? Everyone should like to know. If you can't figure out a way to stop Fong (he can't stop the beating heart of the world), then hurry up and get my Toph OFF THE FRICKIN' MOUNTAIN!

Something else that interests me is the way Avatar Yangchen revealed to Aang about Subodei and Xiangchen. "I was raised to believe that all Air Nomads were peaceful. By the will of Subodei, the Air Nomad horde-leader who wished to plunder the world, and by the will of Xiangchen, the fanatic who wished to use war to destroy war." By now, everyone who's read knows that Yangchen had been raised by Xiangchen. Then Ty Lee told Azula about Subodei and Xiangchen in chapter 42: "So he helped Subodei until Avatar Hirata was killed, so the Skylord would give him the next Avatar, and he did". Give him, like anyone can just give a child away. How did Subodei find Yangchen anyways? Where did he get the information? Unless...Yangchen is his daughter, and as a gift of gratitude or perhaps he just knew that his favorite shaman would be the best teacher, Subodei gave her up.

@cetraskies: I don't think Iroh meant that Asagitatsu is the entire world's heart, just that trying to stop a volcano/snuff a major flame is like trying to stop a beating heart. Because what tends to happen if a volcano is stopped up for too long? Mt. St. Helens. Or worse.

It's certainly an interesting idea that Yangchen may have been his daughter, but he also could have had a very loyal/fanatical web of contacts that sent up the flags as soon as the new Avatar was born. Either way, how he knew his plan had succeeded is a mystery. And go figure, the minute Aang gets a major revelation about the history of the world and the conflict, we don't get a glimpse in his head to see how he reacts! C'mon, Vathara! Don't tease us!

On the other hand, seeing Aang wrangle with the idea that the Earth Kingdom(or Fong, really), is absolutely in the wrong this time was worth all 69-70 chapters of frustration over his thickheadedness in this AU. C'mon, Aang, I know it sucks, but the growing up has to be done sometime.

@blackflamerose: Oh, I see. If the Blue Dragon Mountain were that, then what about the other volcanoes, I wonder?

I thought about Subodei and Xiangchen, and we don't know how old they are. What I think is that since they were alive during Avatar Hirata's era, Subodei would have definitely by that time had enough children (legit and not) that his own followers, captains and whatnot, would not have to give their own children up to him. Sure, there are loyal followers of Subodei's - friends, even - who would probably see if their kid was the Avatar. But, don't think that Subodei's men didn't have families of their own. Genghis Khan's own soldiers had families. He knew how important family was - Subodei may have been big and bad, but why would he demand another's child? Any of his followers could have then used their child like pawn to rise to power and take Subodei off as leader of the White Wind. Genghis Khan had this one friend whom he grew up with that ended up betraying him, and even though Temujin (that's Genghis' childhood name) told him he valued brotherhood, his friend Jamukha said this: "...as there was room for only one sun in the sky, there was room only for one Mongol lord."

Remember what Gyate told Aang about families and teachers. Before Xiangchen, the Temples were places of teaching and learning. Teachers adopted students from their families with their permission. If that's so, then Xiangchen had Subodei's permission to teach his daughter and even raise her as a nun. After all, Subodei had sons of his own! While they go with daddy to pillage the world, his daughter, the Avatar, the most powerful person in the WORLD, would be safe, have the best, most powerful shaman in the world teaching her, guiding her so that later in life, maybe, just MAYBE she could help daddy in the family business. Alright, not maybe - definitely. If Subodei is modeled after Genghis Khan - that man always found ways to make someone useful.

Aang is kind of subdued right now, so I'm not surprised. He wants to stop Fong and Zuko from fighting? Without thinking about why both sides are clashing? Or even why the Earth King himself allowed Zuko this slice of land that he himself said is NOT Earth Kingdom?

The only one who has any say about the Earth Kingdom and its territories is Kuei. Aang, you may be the Avatar, but do NOT dispute the Earth King's will. Fong will learn the hard way, should he live through this, that claiming leadership of the Earth King's army, however well-intentioned, WILL NOT earn him any medals. Kuei is its KING, and throughout history, subjects, even high-ranked nobles, have been killed for lesser misdeeds. The Chinese Emperors whom Kuei's line is modeled after? They were not NICE. Some were jerks, and Kuei even acknowledges that his ancestors (some of them, and I bet there were a lot of them) were bad, maybe even evil. I would like to see what Earth King Kuei handles Fong if he gets the chance to see the general alive, but gravely injured.

Aang has no right to meddle in Earth King Kuei's business. Avatar or no, he knows nothing about the land that's being fought over, and even less being in Dragons' Wings.

On Asagitatsu Iroh just says "Fire is the life of the world, and every volcano is a beating heart. Would you stop Asagitatsu's heart?" So stopping Asagitatsu alone wouldn't be enough, though if he could somehow stop all the world volcano's the earth would die. This is true in the real world as well, if you closed off all the vents that released magma no new land would form and the old stuff would wear away leaving nothing eventually. That doesn't even get into pressure buildup. I think Aang's idea that stopping Agagitatsu from erupting would kill Agagitatsu itself is the right one. Which of course would make said volcano unstoppable. The only reason that Zuko's firebenders can try to manage it is because Agagitatsu wills it. This is also probably one reason Agagitatsu is late erupting she may have to erupt eventually, but that doesn't mean she want's to. So she may have been stalling it hoping someone with the ability would come along to bleed off the pressure.

cetraskies, I completely agree that Fong done goofed. Shirong even brings it up near the end of the chapter. Fong ignored the Earth King's seal; as an ex-Dai Li and yaoren, Shirong's pretty much OBLIGATED to help take Fong out, not even dealing with the chucking-civilians-into-the-trapline thing. Kuei? Who banished a great spirit using nothing but his will? Oh, boy. On the topic of Aang, I have to wonder if neither side is going to listen to the Avatar, because as you mentioned, he hasn't been there and knows nothing about the agreements made or territories negotiated.

And, True Metis, I like the idea that Asagitatsu herself may be trying to stall an eruption for as long as possible. I'm just concerned if events are going to come to a head at Dragons' Wings, as they are now at the back half of season 3 in the timeline, even though the canon hasn't been much of a concern for some time. We shall see.

Hmm...Aang and the others better stay outta the way if he can't talk Fong out of making anymore a mess of things. He knows what Fong did to Katara - perhaps seeing Xiu will convince them that Fong can't be reasoned with? Come on, Aang. Your credibility may be on the line, here.

After the situation at Dragons' Wings is over and dealt with, I wonder if Aang will take up matters with the actual executor of the will - Earth King Kuei. Aang does not know that Kuei made a deal with Zuko about handing over territory that is not Earth Kingdom. It's not like he'd be able to know the Earth King's mark, and Toph can't see.

I would dearly love to see Kuei again, as well as Eshe, Amisi and their tribe. Aang will be thrown in quite a doozy, as well as Katara and Sokka.

Chapter 67 is...WOW. Am absolutely shocked that Makoto is the one in the Fire Lord's palace. I just love it when an author throws something utterly unexpected at you. I'm enjoying myself.

Poor Aang. Now I truly feel sorry for the little brat. Him vs. Makoto? A DRAGON?

Now is the time to use all that Airbending skill and RUN. Take Appa and the others and just get the hell out of the Fire Nation. If Makoto doesn't catch them first...

Best part of the attack on the Fire Lord is that everyone reading this has a feeling that Vathara is perfectly capable of killing any and perhaps every single member of the invasion force. She's been savaging the Gaang for dozens of chapters - it feels like an extended version of Jack Torrence slamming an axe into Scatman Crothers' chest the instant he enters the Overlook.

"This isn't Fire Lord Ozai's world. It's our world, and we're going to take it back!" Aang still believes that Right Makes Might, even after all he's been through. He's lost his civilization, seen it vilified before his eyes, his Love Interest is terrified of him...

While the cynical and paranoid outcast she's been worshiping for the same amount of time is now safely ensconced in his own lordship, from where he's been effortlessly savaging a battalion of Earth Kingdom troops with guerrilla warfare.

Vathara might as well be shouting Tonight Someone Dies. Creepifying, but exciting. My personal wild guess is that she's about to kill Katara.

About that quote...

Aang just forgot what his teacher told him. The Fire Nation is very much part of the world - don't be like Kyoshi, who screwed the Fire Nation over when she was alive. His foolishness will cost him dearly, thinking "I'm the master of three elements - I don't need to learn to firebend!".

And don't be ridiculous. While it's not uncommon for authors to kill off a main character, it's still scarcely done. No doubt that the G Aang will live, if sorely humbled by their losses. Come on now, aren't we supposed to be a little more Genre Savvy than that? If anyone's going to be killed off, I'd bet maybe one of Hakoda's men, Hakoda himself, or Tao. This guy seriously screwed Aang over - his teachings have not really done much to help the Avatar.

By the way, I heard that as a writer, if you really love a character, then you will put them through the most difficult situations which challenge their preconceptions, values, beliefs, etc. about the world.

Mastery is a pretty ill-defined concept, even for martial artists. My older brother told me how important it is that he train consistently every day and keep learning new things.

Toph is an earthbending Master. She's had nearly most of her life that she has been actively earthbending and using her Earthsense to perfection. And yet, she is still learning more. She knows that there is more for her to learn out there, and she actively achieves this. You can bet that she'll be finding more rocks and learning about them and add it to her repretoire of skills.

Aang has yet to start his firebending training. Toph commented in a previous chapter that he only thinks he's mastered Earthbending. It is laughable that this 12 year old boy told Gyatso last chapter that he's mastered 3 elements, and that that's enough. Being the Avatar isn't all about bending. It has been stated that the Avatar Spirit chooses to reincarnate within a human in order to understand humans. Aang has not had the time to learn to understand the other three nations, understandably. However, what with his imposed time limit, he's in a rush to go through the bending arts as quickly as he can, so going deep into cultural studies isn't on his priority list at the moment. I understand this, but it's still really frustrating that he denies certain facts and maintains his preconceptions of the world, the 3 nations, and the people around him...even his own allies, which is dangerous as it is stupid.

Remember Avatar Yangchen's words in canon. That Aang, as the Avatar, cannot detach himself to the world, because his duty IS to the world. This isn't about him, as Sokka pointed out in chapter 60, and Avatar Yangchen states this: "Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice your own spiritual needs and do whatever it takes to save the world". In conjunction with this, I think Aang needs to stop thinking like an Air Monk and start taking it like an Earthbender, actively shape his own destiny like a Firebender, and learn to adapt to the situation IMMEDIATELY like a Waterbender. He needs to accept that all Four Nations have valid points and equal systems of justice and cultures of their own. He needs to "detach" himself from the culture and life he was raised in, because he was never just a normal Airbender to begin with. Life is not fair, but it is not new.

Something that Aang will find out once he meets the other Air Nomad groups.

Hey there, Elementals Advocate.

It was a pleasant surprise to find that chapter 65 was posted earlier today (or was it yesterday night?).

Azula is just wicked awesome. Zuko was right about her - she really knows how to break someone without touching him. Poor Aang. I don't think you know yet that that shinobi with Azula is an Air Nomad. Too bad Sokka and Toph haven't shared such information about the Onmitsu to Hakoda and Tao. Katara had to go and open her fat mouth (albeit unwittingly) about Shidan, and now the Fire Lord may just decide to kill him and destroy Byakko. Maybe. I doubt Toph and Sokka will be happy with her for giving such high class information to the enemy.

I'm glad that Ty Lee is ok. Azula gave her CPR, huh? So Azula can save a life. Even several of those Onmitsu who decided to follow Azula's Way. Anyways, Aang's bending has only been temporarily been disabled. I think they may just end up fighting against the rest of the Onmitsu while trying to leave, though. Their plan to use the eclipse has been severely compromised. Sokka tried his best, but it wasn't enough. Azula is the better strategist and tactician, and she's one vicious cutthroat bitch to boot. She knows when to put aside her own misguided preconceptions in favor of doing what needs to be done at the moment. Something that Aang, Katara and some of their allies need to learn in order to survive this fight, let alone the whole war.

The Invasion arc has just started. I think next chapter we'll see Zuko and his fellow yaoren face off with General Fong, that idiot Earth general. Who knows? We may just get to see the Wens again. And of course, the Earth King will NOT be happy about Fong's taking his soldiers just to make trouble against Zuko's new settlement. I'd love to see Kuei give Fong a good punishment once he gets back home. Show him just who the Earth King is.

Assuming of course Fong survives. I want to see what the Dragon of the West can do with a combination forces of Air, Earth, and Fire. With a volcano to boot.

It's official. Fong's an idiot, and even Xiu knows it. It looks like the inhabitants of the Northern Air Temple will have to fight, after all.

Did you maybe mean "half a millenia" instead of "half a century"? My PARENTS passed half a century before I even got married, and the only bending we do is the truth. ;^p

Why assume she was ONLY lower middle age when she died? It took "a long time" to get her free— assume only into her 30s. Another decade to defeat those who controlled her. Another decade doing other stuff, then death?

More likely that she did at least 100 years after getting loose.

Elementals Advocate, I'm glad someone finally noticed the gap between Kesuk and Hirata.

I think there was an Avatar between the time of Kesuk and Hirata; the thing is, he (I would think that the Avatar succeeding Kesuk would have been male and Earth Kingdom, since Kyoshi was female) has not been revealed yet. The Avatar cycle didn't stop just because Kesuk was buried underneath a volcano, as there continued to be Avatars after.

Also, Yangchen did not outlive her teacher or Subodei - she died bringing them down with her, underneath a volcano. I don't think she was very old at all.

@Foxfier: Thank you for the correction. Yes, I did mean half a millennia.

@cetraskies: Yangchen did not outlive her teacher or Subodei, as far as we know. In chapter 42, Ty Lee gives Azula a quick history lesson about Avatar Yangchen and the White Wind.

And... Ty Lee seemed to actually be thinking about what she'd said. Interesting.

"What happened to the temples was sad," Ty Lee said at last. "But I don't think they would have let Aang be another Yangchen."

Azula arched a brow. "Yangchen?"

"The last Air Nomad Avatar. Only she got away."

"Got away?" Azula asked carefully. Avatars were honored by their nations. Or so the histories read.

Of course, she had reason to know histories could lie.

Ty Lee nodded vigorously, wafting papers aside to bounce onto Azula's bed. Absently, Azula noted how the airbending briefly muted the rumble of the tank's engines. A cue like that might be vital to get the drop on the Avatar before he could get it on her.

Folded on herself to her liking, Ty Lee squinted into memory. "You know the stories about training the Yu Yan because of the raids that killed Avatar Hirata?"

"Thoroughly," Azula said dryly. Some of those had been quite heady adventures for a young lady. If she hadn't been graced with firebending, she'd have fought to be first among them.

Only Father never would allow her a bow. It wasn't fair.

Father isn't here.

Hmm. Risky thought. But they'd need the archers for the eclipse. And she could always present the case that she'd wished to make certain no officious fool who couldn't read a calendar had ordered them elsewhere.

"That was Skylord Subodei," Ty Lee went on. "He had a vision. The White Wind would own the skies. The rest of us..." She glanced at her hands, obviously picturing them pierced through with bloody ropes.

"My uncle had a vision of Ba Sing Se," Azula noted. "That didn't turn out so well."

"Yeah," Ty Lee said softly. "I wonder who the Fire Sage who helped him with it was. I bet he was a lot like Monk Xiangchen."

Court-trained instinct pricked up its ears: This is important. "Who?"

"Monk Xiangchen. Subodei's favorite shaman," Ty Lee obliged. "He had a vision, too. And it meant using the Skylord's." She shifted the feet dangling over her head like other girls might shrug. "He wanted the whole world to be at peace."

Azula let silence stretch between them, making absolutely certain Ty Lee had no intention of rephrasing that impossible statement. "So he helped a man out to rape, pillage, and conquer?"

"Think about it," Ty Lee said; for once, serious. "Once Subodei conquered the world, Xiangchen and his followers could make people peaceful."

Azula shook her head. "That's impossible. You can't make-"

"People can't fight if they don't remember how. Or why."

Stepping blindly back through scattered papers, Azula sat down. Trained control or not, she wanted to shiver. Forget to fight? Forget what kept you alive? Agni. Oh, father of fire, preserve us.

"So he helped Subodei until Avatar Hirata was killed, so the Skylord would give him the next Avatar," Ty Lee went on. "And he did. So Xiangchen got to keep her as a nun, away from the world, while Subodei and his son Yisugei and his son Subodei - boy, that was always hard to keep straight - kept conquering all over the place. And... well, it's a lot of long stories. But she got away, and something happened near the North Pole, and ashes were falling out of the sky everywhere, and she got Subodei and his warriors and Xiangchen - but she didn't get the ones who believed in Xiangchen. Not all of them." Ty Lee took a deep breath, gray eyes bright with tears. "And all the healers were treating lung-sickness from the ashes, so Xiangchen's followers could just go places and find them. And they took them away. To the temples. And no one ever, ever came back."

So this is what I figure happened. I may not know dates, but the events are easy enough to figure out. Yangchen is born, then raised in one of the Air Temples taken by The White Wind. She is rescued from the White Wind by the Yaoren. She is then trained in the other elements and gains control of the Avatar State. At some point, Yangchen and the Yaoren head to Asagitatsu and attempt to keep the volcano from blowing up, and fail. Koh was involved according to Langxue. Anything other than that is guess work. If you follow what Ty Lee is saying, it appears as if it was Subodei the Younger, Xiangchen, and a large proportion of the Warriors of the White Wind were killed around the same time as the eruption, and Ty Lee seems to be blaming Yangchen for both deeds, and implies that both events happened at the same time.

Personally, I believe that the Yaoren would have been gunning for Xiangchen and the White Wind anyway, considering that they were the ones responsible for the death of a previous avatar and seriously rocking the boat of natures balance, and that Yangchen probably went after them personally. She definitely wasn't around to stop Xiangchen's disciples from going after the air-healers. She might have lived to 100, she might not have. We are, for better or worse, at the mercy of the author.

@Elementals Advocate

I think this passage from chapter 29 will answer your question:

"Ah," Iroh said, very quietly. "Well. Strong benders move their chi, and smooth its flow; I have let my discipline slip these past few years, which I must remedy... If we are diligent, and practice, and if nothing kills us - we can live a very long time. Not so long as legend says of the Avatar, who tales grant half a millennium or more, but long. My grandfather, Fire Lord Sozin, was a hundred and fifty-three when he died; and I think that was of grief and loneliness, more than age. Without our cousins of the waves to learn from, we of the Fire Nation are unbalanced, and few reach so many years. But Kuzon would have been among them."

Mainly this sentence:

"Not so long as legend says of the Avatar, who tales grant half a millennium or more, but long."

So it is possible that one avatar did live for 600 years.

Heh. The Kesuk-Yangchen gap is nothing; it's the Yangchen-Aang gap that's always caught my attention. Four Avatars in eleven hundred years, right? Aang in icicle form accounts for a hundred of those, then Aang growing up takes care of another eleven. Roku's stated to have been less than a hundred when he died (can't recall exact numbers), leaving us with 900 years to split between Kyoshi and Kuruk. The former of whom is at one point directly stated to have lived for around 260 years. I admittedly can't remember if the thousand-year gap between Air Avatars is canon or something of Vathara's, but as it stands, Kuruk lived about 640 years. Oops. ;p

@Zefire

You make a good point about Kuruk. At one point, Amaya states that in the year Avatar Kuruk was born, there was a sound like thunder from the south, and the sky went dark. This, we can presume, was Asagitatsu's eruption at Avatar Yangchen. Also, in Avatarverse canon, we see Avatar Roku dying and then Aang being born a short time later. This would indicate that the World Spirit is not slow in finding a new Avatar, strengthening your theory that Avatar Kuruk probably lived about 640 years.

However, it begs the question. Why did Roku age as fast as he did? What makes the big difference over how long Avatars live?

Read chapter 56:

"Right," Sokka muttered. Eyed Temul. "You were alive when Roku was the Avatar. Why didn't you tell him?"

"There was much I did not learn until after my death," the ghost said bluntly. "As for human lives... I did try to tell Roku." She winced, and seemed to huddle on herself, shadow on shadow. "I've never seen any firebender age so fast."

"Wait, wait," Sokka held up empty hands, "that doesn't make sense. You keep old age from biting by moving your chi, and he was the Avatar..."

The human-who-is-the-World-Spirit's-bearer. One of thousands. One Avatar dies, and the next is born...

Dragon-children were born paranoid. That didn't mean they were wrong.

Sokka gulped. "You think it was killing him."

"Killing? Oh, no." Temul's voice dripped irony. "As your young airbender would say, it wasn't killing anyone. It simply... wasn't helping him not to die."

Oh yeah, and the latest chapter is up. Thank Tengri for Gyatso. Ah, now both Aang and Ty Lee have had the truth shoved right in their faces. And Sokka...you seem to forget that it's the people of the Fire Nation you need to worry about rather than anything happening to the Avatar. And did anyone notice the little wink to The Hunger Games, or is it just me? Because while reading through some of the reviews, no one has noticed.

Over six hundred years... no wonder his views shaped the Water Tribe he lived in so much!

The Hunger Games? Please elaborate.

Kalaong, you haven't heard of The Hunger Games? It's the most popular YA trilogy of this year.

Could someone point out the "wink" to The Hunger Games?

It's in Chapter 64. Mocking-jay. Though I don't know whether the author even read The Hunger Games.

The notice (Mar. 8 2012) on the author's profile says RL got a bit hectic. Maybe things still need to settle down?

Well, it's been six weeks now. Hope she's okay; I know RL takes priority, but an update on her profile saying she's fine as opposed to Author Existence Failure wouldn't be unwelcome.

Agreed. I was hoping for at least a note this week. Now I'm getting worried....

The author is just putting all concentration on the project that's more important right now - the one that's RL and not a fictional story. I'm sure once the project is finished, the author will put up another note saying when the next update is coming.

She updated

Yay! I'm glad she's okay! RL can be a b*** sometimes.

Awesome. Let's talk about the new chapter, gaiz.

Aang and Katara are finally starting to use their brains. Sokka's just figured out that they are so screwed. Ty Lee's the airbender who broke her bindings. She has potential to be Air-Fire yaoren, but the question is, will she ask for it? And Zuko has his birthday present! Hooray!!