From an objective non-Dornish viewpoint: the Lannisters killed Elia Martell alone. Oberyn never says one word or another about her Targaryen children.
In the case of Oberyn versus The Mountain, the Lannisters themselves are not responsible. That was a Trial by Combat that Oberyn willingly entered with very clear rules that it was a fight to the death. Oberyn's death can't be blamed on a direct plot of the Lannisters against him.
So the Sand Snakes kill two more of their own Family then the Lannisters did.
Okay fair enough about Oberyn's death but him "never saying one word or another about her Targaryen children"? What about "you raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children?"
Well mostly in S4 he keeps mentioning Elia all the time, and doesn't express feelings about the Targaryens one way or another. I forgot about that.
But anyway as far as Westeros are concerned those kids would be Targaryens and not Martells. To use a metaphor, those kids aren't Martell "made men" the way Elia is. There is a reason Elia remains Elia Martell after marriage while Prince Aegon and Princes Rhaenys are Targaryen in Name and Blood.
Likewise, Ellaria herself says in the episode after murdering Doran, "Elia Martell dead, Oberyn dead", she doesn't include the children. So I'd say the Sand Snakes are 2:1 on Martells deliberately killed against the Lannisters.
Edited by JulianLapostat
Pulled this:
- Gender Lift: In the books Dorne is noted for practicing absolute primogeniture where elder children regardless of sex inherit titles and positions, which means that women do inherit and become Lords in equal weight compared to rest of the Seven Kingdoms. While this aspect hasn't been Adapted Out explicitly, it has been sidelined by changing, for example, Oberyn's mother the Princess of Dorne who travelled with Oberyn and Elia to Casterly Rock to Oberyn's father. Further examples is Trystane Martell being named Doran's heir (by an HBO source), where in the books his eldest daughter Arianne is first in line of succession followed by his brother Quentyn, both of whom seem to be Adapted Out.
- Given that Tyrion outright described Trystane as Prince Doran's younger son, Quentyn's removal would create a massive Plot Hole (though that won't stop them from revealing he was Killed Offscreen if it comes to that). Arianne is more uncertain, but it's theoretically possible that they simply changed her age relative to her brother(s) (possibly changing her from being the eldest to a younger child - since Loras and Margaery Tyrell had their birth-order switched over, it's a distinct possibility. All that said, until the writers make explicit confirmation about them, Arianne and Quentyn remain in limbo.
- Apparently at least part of this is because the producers just felt it would take too long to explain in Season 4 that Dorne has equal primogeniture laws - though they didn't remove this, just pushed giving the explanation to a later time. The Season 4 Blu-ray featurettes later did explicitly confirm that the ruler of Dorne immediately before Doran was Doran and Oberyn's mother, not their father.
Due to being a horribly natter-y mess. With all the natter, I'm inclined to believe it's not really an example, but honestly I'm not sure.
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Party Crasher
Okay, what's going on with the pictures in this article? Before you decide to change a pic, for whatever reason, come here first. Or start an Image Pickin' discussion. That'll work too.
Edited by 37.32.165.72 It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Regarding Doran
- Troll: He claims to be too infirm to attend Joffrey's wedding, so he sends Oberyn instead, likely knowing exactly what a disruptive presence his younger brother will be. [[labelnote:From the Books...]]Doran is actually disabled, having a very bad case of gout. Although considering his family's wealth and power, he probably could have gone, and would have, if the Martells didn't really, really hate Lannisters.
This is viewer speculation at this point, a bit natter-y and the source text does back that he's really infirm -wheelchair and all-, so I don't really see how this qualifies as an example... "as of" the second episode of season 4.
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Absolute speculation. Cut it.
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"[Ellaria] ends up murdering her in-law and nephew, killing more Martells than the Lannisters ever did" This is technically incorrect. The Lannisters killed four Martells (Oberyn, Elia and her children Aegon and Rhanys), even if you consider them Targaryens, the number still remains the same as the number of Martells she killed: Doran and Trystane.
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