In case the issue is the beauty marks thing, they absolutely have distinct beauty marks.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6U4yubdL0I
It moves left in each game, but the placement of the beauty marks for the Bayonetta's that appear at the end match the placement in their original game. We tell Bayonetta's apart by their beauty marks, so it has to equally apply to the ones we play as.
Counter Point: The profile for Bayo 1 in the game says she's similar to Main Bayonetta but "Her eyes give off an intensity that hints at an almost unfathomable number of trials and hardships", hinting she's not our bayo of the past. Maybe she had her own adventurers when her universe split off from the main and kept the old look.
The game goes back and forth on info, likely on purpose, to remain vague. We shouldn't be making statements saying which theory is canon, but point out the evidence of both theories and stick to a neutral position unless some new official information comes and gives us an official clarifcation.
I'm unclear on what you mean. How does that line hint at that? Seems more like a reference to the things we know happened to Bayonetta in the first game. Also, she quotes from that game when she reunites with the Bayonetta of this game (i.e. the "you didn't cry while I was gone, did you?" that she used with Cereza). Seems pretty open and shut that she is the Bayonetta from that game. She also has only one ribbon in her hair, since this Bayonetta gave one of the ribbons to Cereza. She also uses the same guns as the Bayonetta from 1, of which there is likely only one set of since there is only one Rodin and he made them for a specific Bayonetta.
The Bayo of 3 also is indicated to have not had the exact same story as the one from 1, since her profile talks about her having left her ancestral home to live in New York, whereas in the first game that Bayonetta did not leave to go live anywhere, she was transported away dormant in a coffin and hidden away.
Edited by Perentie
Bayo Beta O also looks like Bayo from one aside from the beauty mark location. We can't use their appearance. (Because also weirdly, Bayo 1 has two ribbons during her playable stint, despite the costume you unlock only having 1)
Some other examples that support "Same Bayo": Enzo mentions losing control of her pet (from Bayonetta 2). Luka's codex mentions the events of the first two games and his father's death (which knocks out adult Cereza theories) The biggest one is Rodin, his entry says there's only one Rodi and his Devil Rodin entry states he chose a single universe to live in (While still visiting others for various dealings). Now unless he suddenly moved and they decided to not include that, we've been following the same universe.
And despite this you'll note I'm only asking we entertain multiple theories.
Edited by Lego3400
Then what should the paragraph be rewritten to, so as to entertain the multiple theories?
Also, I'd argue Luka's codex is vague enough for simply similar versions of the first two game's events to have happened.
And do the other games claim Rodin is truly staying there? We don't really get to see enough of him to know if what we see during the games is simply part of extended visits (for a being like him a "visit" could easily last years).
Edited by Perentie
Bayo 1 only has one ribbon in the finale.
And we can absolutely use their appearance? Alternate Bayonetta's can be distinguished by their beauty mark location. Bayonetta's beauty mark is in a different location in each game. The Bayonetta's that turn up at the end have their beauty marks in the exact locations that the beauty mark was in for those designs in the previous games. It's a very clear piece of visual storytelling that identifies different versions even when they use the same design - we could remove one of B0's ribbons, and we'd still be able to tell her and Bayo 1 apart solely because of the mark.
While I agree with Shotguner, perhaps a good compromise for now would be to just start the paragraph by saying "it is heavily implied", i.e. the edited paragraph would say:
In Bayonetta 3 it is heavily implied that the main Bayonetta the player uses in each game is in fact a separate Bayonetta in a universe distinct from the others, distinguished physically by each having their facial mole in a slightly different position. While they are technically variants, because their life histories and personalities are all very similar to each other compared to the other variants, the trio have their tropes listed together here and not specified further except where applicable.
We don't need to add anything as it's already troped under ambiguous situation
"Thanks to 3 introducing the multiverse, it becomes difficult to know whether the Bayonetta across all three games is the same woman players have been following since the first game or different versions who share the same history. Mucking things up further is the appearance of two other versions of Bayonetta who appear as she does in 1 and 2. Further evidence heavily implies the Bayonetta players are controlling is the child Cereza from 1 grown up."
This covers all possibilities neatly. (Thank you to whoever wrote this btw) though adding the mole thing to it would probably be a great idea
Edited by Lego3400
For the time being I can agree to that (I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually get confirmation from Kamiya or someone else involved regarding who the Bayonettas are). Did you want to add in the info about the beauty marks in your own words, Shotguner?
Just to be clear, Luka is NOT Bayo’s love interest. Hideki Kamiya already confirmed this before. When he was asked about the relationship between Bayonetta and Luka, he simply stated this: "She teases Luka; like a toy, but will never commit, he'd die long before her.” This information is already present on her Celebate Hero trope and has been before I was on here. This not only solidifies the fact by Kamiya-san, but in Bayonetta 2, he is shown to be a mere annoyance to her. At least, from her negative and sarcastic response to him. So please stick to confirmed and canon facts. Thank you.
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Related to the above but also the recent edit reversion. I must say, Cheshire is the name of her beloved stuffed toy from her childhood. How can it not be an affectionate nickname? Also, Kamiya-san stating she would not commit is a lot milder than the "zero interest" interpretation you seem quite adamant about.
Not that I am advocating Luka as an outright love interest, just that he's more important to her than you seem to acknowledge.
Also, where in 2 does she even indicate he's a "mere annoyance" to her? When they reunite she is surprised to see him, curious about the information he's found, seems interested in his hat, and embarrassed by his clumsiness when he leaves. The closest she comes to being negative is warning him to not stick his nose where it doesn't belong after he says he'll try finding more info to help her, which was in context (and by his response) simply her telling him to be careful. He proves to be helpful as well, not an annoyance.
His boasting and childish antics is what annoys her. She chastises him for it and even talks shit about him behind his back. You’re not making a compelling argument if since the second game does back up my argument.
How? You didn't address any of my points, which came from the second game as well. Also, Bayonetta chastises everyone, so why single out Luka in the entry?
Why are you so invested in maintaining the celibate entry as is when the only relevant part is explaining per Kamiya's words why Bayonetta wouldn't commit to a romance with someone with a shorter life expectancy? Claiming Luka annoys her is immaterial to that, as even if true it would only relate to him, not to why she would be celibate in general.
Lastly, removing the "ever" from "never ever" was simply cleaning up the entry of excess words, a common thing done here. It didn't change the meaning.
Edited by Perentie
Him being annoying shows how little she views him as a man. She sees Luka as childish and reckless. And you can visibly tell by her reaction, he is annoying to her at times. And that’s a major turn-off. So it’s relevant. It was left there for a reason. So leave it or you will get banned for starting an edit war. Your persistence and edits are not warrented. And you are close to violating the site’s guidelines.
Edited by Gojiboy2000
That's my point. At most it would be a turnoff for her toward Luka specifically, not something that has anything to do with her avoiding romance in general. In my view your constant dismissal is unwarranted and unreasonable. It's clear this is important to you, but it seems like you are not even considering other points of view. Your word on Bayonetta is not law. Frankly I would welcome having a moderator chime in on this so we could at least have an opinion present besides yours and mine.
One other thing, even mentioning Word of God is noted to be trivia and not a trope. One could argue the whole entry should be moved from this page.
Edited by Perentie
Well it was put there for a reason. So it doesn’t need to be moved. We don’t need people like you ruining the page for your own personal benefits. I am not dismissing people’s point of view for myself. I am keeping facts as they are given and shown. What the games show is fact. What the devs say is fact. You are missing that point and seem to want to interpret this in your own narrative, which is not allowed.
Edited by Gojiboy2000
Things get put in incorrect places all the time. The very page states "this example contains a Trivia entry. It should be moved to the Trivia tab." How is that up for debate?
That being the case, perhaps the entry should be amended to clarify Kamiya's likely meaning in light of this game's events. Namely, Bayonetta likes Luka to some degree (be it a favored pet, toy, or other teasing comparison) but won't go deeper and commit to Luka romantically unless the circumstances are such that she knows she is not going to outlive him. Like here Luka decides to go to Inferno with her forever, so she has no reason to deny being with him as she's pretty assured they will never be apart. I've been spoiled quite a bit on Bayonetta 3 (willingly mind you), but I'm still not clear on if some similar thing (like Luka gaining demon powers) influenced Bayonetta being willing to fall in love and have a family with him in Viola's universe.
On another note, perhaps this whole character page should be revamped, dividing between general Bayonetta tropes that fit all the ones we know, and specific tropes to fit the lives and adventures of different Bayonettas in different universes?
Edited by Perentie
Yeah. Luka may not have been her love interest in the first game (or second game), but that's clearly not the case for the third.
And yeah, I'm voting for the page to be divided between Arch-Eve Prime (the main Bayonetta) and her variants, where applicable.
Edited by Arawn999
Regarding the deletion of the info stating each game's main Bayonetta is different. How can it be claimed this is not true? The info for the guns of Bayonetta from 1 and from 2 both state Rodin made them for another Bayonetta. Further, when the Bayonettas from 1 and 2 return to life during the battle with Singularity, he states he had destroyed them and their worlds long ago, which I would say is explicit confirmation they are distinct. So I would argue my paragraph should be restored.
Edited by Perentie Hide / Show Replies